CLAVDIVS AMERICANVS: So Time Magazine less than 2 years ago admitted there are neo-Nazis in Ukraine’s east, namely the Azov Battalion. Again, I believe you that there are nah-tsees in dah you-crane but I did not see a Nazi (lol) elsewhere. Seriously, the country is not overrun by the Hitlerjugend.
You just hate right-wingers and see the devil everywhere they gather. Putin is a mass murder who decimated Grozny with impunity. A few Hitler-hailin’ dickheads in Eastern Ukraine aren’t a real threat to anybody but the locals. And considering Putin already controlled Crimea and Donbass, he could have killed the Nazis there. Shelling other cities is not justifiable.
First of all, conservatives in most parts of the world are not really Nazis. However, rightwingers in Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia, Ukraine, Belarus, Croatia, Romania, Hungary, France, Germany, Slovenia, Sweden, Bulgaria, Austria can absolutely be Nazis, thought most rightwingers in the more western of these nations are not Nazis.
In the East it is different, and conservatism in those eastern countries simply tends to be Nazism. Nazism is a phenomenon of White Europeans, and there’s about zero support for it in most other parts of the world, though there are a few Nazis in places like Argentina, the UK, the US, Bolivia, Chile, India, Mongolia, and a few other places.
There aren’t really many Nazis left in the Donbass. Members of Nazi battalions, when captured by the separatists, were slowly beaten and tortured to death over a period of a day or time. Most of the pro-Ukies took off, but all of the rest of them went over to the separatists because the Ukie occupiers pissed so many people off.
Most of the Nazis in Crimea, what few were even there, presumably took off after independence. Keep in mind that when the “little green men” took over Crimea, the entire Ukrainian Army stationed in Crimea immediately surrendered to Russia. However, there is still some opposition to Russia in Crimea because when the Russians started this war, there was even some armed resistance in Crimea!
Ukraine Has a Nazi Problem, to Put It Mildly
It’s hard to say how many Nazis there are as so many “non-Nazis” go along with the Nazis due to fear, peer pressure, propaganda, or other reasons. The 20% of Ukrainians in Western Ukraine east of Kiev are absolutely Nazis, every last one of them. This is the homeland of Ukrainian nationalism.
Up to 33% of Ukrainians have extreme, almost fanatical, anti-Russian views. Though not strictly Nazis, they could be seen as Nazis in a “kill the Russians” sense. Plus they go along with the Nazis.
So 20-33% of Ukrainians are pretty much out and out Nazis or at least Ukrainian nationalist fascists of one type or another, and many of the rest are terrorized into going along with them. That’s not enough to make Ukraine a Nazi country, but it’s enough to make it so it has a severe Nazi problem.
Three Ukrainian Regions – East, Center, and South
Eastern and Southern Ukraine are Russian. This is where the separatists are or at least they are in the East in the Donbass. If they put the entire area east of the Dniper to a plebiscite, I’m pretty sure that they would vote to secede from Ukraine. Only part of this region, the Donbass, is now separate.
The area west of the Dniper and east of Kiev is called Central Ukraine, and it is completely different. It’s not really Nazi but it’s not pro-Russian at all. It’s pro-Ukrainian government. They’re somewhere in the middle of the pro-Russian East and the Nazi West.
But they are not pro-Russian at all, and Russia will have a very hard time occupying this place because the population will be so hostile.
The only place Russia can occupy is the South and the East, and they are having problems with anti-Russian demos right now.
Occupying Nazi Western Ukraine will be almost impossible because the population will be insanely hostile. I don’t know how they will do it. They probably won’t. But it will be a perennial problem. If the East goes independent or strongly pro-Russian, which is probable, and the Center is controlled by a pro-Russian demilitarized, neutral, and at least somewhat denazififed state, as is possible if difficult to carry out, the idea would be for Russia to say the Hell with the Nazi West.
Problem is all the Nazis in the rest of the country will flee there. And lots of advanced weapons are pouring in there, so it’s full of powerful weapons and armed to the teeth. Not to mention the population are already Nazi fanatics for a good 80 years now ever since 1941 and maybe even before from 1932 and the famine. The temptation is to say the Hell with it and let this Nazi state fester.
A new rump Ukraine state will be formed there, and I believe that NATO forces may even move in in large numbers to occupy it. It will then become a new “Ukraine” with the same dynamic in place – endless weapons supplies and NATO training to turn it into a cat’s paw to attack Russia with, although Russia will now have some geographic depth with Novorussia in the east and the pacified state in the center.
An insurgency against the Center and the East is already planned there, as all US factions from “right” to “center” to “left” are in agreement about bogging down Russia in a new Syria or Afghanistan. Call it the Syrianization of Ukraine. So the Ukraine problem of 2014-present will simply move from Ukraine to Western Ukraine. At some point, Russia might have to go into Western Ukraine to clean those Nazis out, and it won’t be pretty.
Hitlery Clinton has already come out in support of Syrianization, as has (((Victoria Nuland))) who pretty much singlehandedly created this whole mess. Her husband is (((Donald Kagan))), one of the craziest, most vicious, and blood-drenched neocons of them all. They both installed (((Yatzeniuk))) as President, a fanatical Russia-hating nationalist and oligarch. So there’s a bit of an (((angle))) here as there is with so many lousy things, but that’s not the whole story, and this is what crazy antisemites miss.
These are just American Jewish neocons. They don’t represent Israel or American Jewry at all. Mostly they are just fanatical US imperialists. They’ve hitched themselves to US imperialism, but almost all US Gentiles are in the same sheep flock.
The Democratic Party and Joe Biden Started This War
(((Nuland))) is a neocon Clintonite.
When Biden came in, he brought back the neocons, many of whom had been thrown out by isolationist Trump. Both parties have a vast neocon faction, almost all of it Gentile, though a number of the leaders are Jewish.
Hence, anti-Russian policy was vastly ramped up. If Trump was still in, this war would not have happened. But the Democrats radically ramped up the aggression against Russia because the Democrats are now the McCarthyite party of Russia-haters, while Republicans are split between a base that is both pro- and anti-Russia, even if Republican politicians are whores with fingers to the wind who have no basic values at all other than “zero sum game” and “win at any cost.” So Biden and the Democratic Party’s foreign policy is worse than the Republicans, and Biden and the Democrats pretty much started this war.
A Recent Historical View of the Ukrainian Nazi Infestation
There are plenty of Nazis in Central Ukraine too, especially after eight years of incessant Nazi propaganda. It’s started to effect people, and even ordinary Ukies are a lot more anti-Russian and pro-Nazi than they were eight years ago. Also a lot of the Russian speakers simply left, especially the ones in the South and East.
It was like this all over the Donbass inside and outside of the separatist regions. Many of these people are coming home now on the backs of advancing Russian troops, and they are quite happy to be home.
The reason for the anti-Russian protests in the South is due to a variety of reasons.
First, many men are veterans of the war in the East.
Second, many Ukies have relatives or neighbors in the military currently fighting the Russians.
Third, eight years of brainwashing works.
Fourth, many people may have turned pro-Ukie and anti-Russian to avoid persecution.
Fifth, most of the Russian speakers took off.
The result is you now have quite a few pro-Ukies in the South, but they are still a minority. The majority are still Russian speakers, but they have been quiet and holed up inside for eight years, and a lot of them left and will presumably return. But there are definitely pro-Ukies in the West and even some in the East.
There Are No Pro-Ukrainians Left in the Donbass
When the operation in the Donbass started, the Ukie troops came in as liberators taking back the separatist zones for Ukraine. About 20% of the population greeted them at the entrances with cheers. So 20% of the population under the separatists were anti-separatist, but the separatists never did much about this.
However, the Ukies conquered a lot of those towns but were never able to control them. The separatists fought an extremely dirty guerrilla war, not wearing uniforms, hiding among the population in yards and houses, jumping fences from house to house, on and on.
The Ukies would be lured into rooms where there were women and children present so the Ukies thought it was OK to come in. Then a hidden separatist would jump out and attack the Ukie soldiers. Obviously this endangered the women and kids too. There were booby-traps and hidden bombs everywhere.
The Ukies eventually decided that there was no way they were going to defeat them because they were too deeply rooted in the population. They also said that after months of brutal occupation, the entire pro-Ukie 20% had gone over to the separatists. The Ukies themselves admitted that they had no support in these towns and everyone was with the enemy. They described the situation as hopeless.
About half of the Donetsk and Lugansk states were controlled by the Ukies after they pushed the separatists out and them. Indeed the separatists were about ready to be defeated when Russia poured in and reversed the losses.