This is a transcript of my interview with Robert Stark about the Eliot Rodger mass shooting case. I decided to make the transcript because the audio quality was so awful that it was very hard to listen to. I really like the way this interview turned out. We talked about a lot of great things and I think it is very interesting. I believe a lot of you readers might like to read this transcript, and I think you might get something out of it. So feel free to dive in and comment if you wish.
Robert Stark Interview with Me on Eliot Rodger
Robert Stark: We were discussing this Eliot Rodger guy…for me, I live in Santa Barbara, so this was local. However, I believe that this was not just a local event – it was nationwide. When you first heard about this in the news, what was your initial reaction? Robert Lindsay: A friend of mine came to me the next day – Sunday morning – on the Internet, and he said, “There’s been another shooting.” He wouldn’t give me any details, but then I went and looked it up, and at first I didn’t know much about it, so I didn’t understand what was going on. I just figured it’s another mass shooting, and I didn’t really understand why. Then, over the next few days, the reasons came out because he sent in his manifesto. RS: For a person to go out and shoot random people, or total strangers…well it would be one thing if someone went out and harmed someone who they knew they were angry at, but to go out and shoot random people, I think someone would have to be pretty mentally tormented. RL: I really get tired of hearing the attitude that all these people are mentally ill, and we need to treat the mentally ill better. They say, “The problem isn’t guns – the problem is crazy people.” But the thing is – these people are often not mentally ill at all. You don’t have to be mentally ill to grab a gun and try to shoot as many people as you can. RS: I totally agree with you – I said mentally tormented, not mentally ill. Mental illness is something you are born with. Someone could start off relatively normal, but they could drive themselves insane. I think there is a distinction there. RL: Well, that is exactly what this guy did! I read his manifesto, and up until age he was 11 or 12, he was rather shy, but other than that he was very normal, very happy, very sociable young boy. He was pretty healthy in his head as a young boy, and he just got more and more unhealthy as life went on. RS: Yes, what he had was high-functioning Asperger’s Syndrome. But high-functioning Asperger’s Syndrome is not like schizophrenia. A lot of those people could function and be productive in society in the right environment. You read his manifesto. At what point in his life did he go from having a relatively normal childhood to where he ended up at? RL: I think it all started at age 12. And it got really bad at age 13 and on into 14 – that’s when it hit him really bad. He got far gone from age 11 to age 16. He turned into a completely different person. RS: Would you say it was because of the bullying in middle school? RL: Yes! That’s what did it. And he couldn’t be popular. He was popular up until age 11 or so…that was the first year of middle school. In that year, it was ok…and the girls were nice to him. In elementary school, there were certain requirements to be popular, and they were not hard for him to live up to, but then it started changing. Now it wasn’t like this when I was in 7th grade, but in 7th and 8th grade for Eliot, it was all about the guys who are liked by girls – the guys who are popular with the girls. And the girls were only hanging out with some of the guys, certain of the guys. The girls were all flocking to a few of the guys – the Alphas or whatever. When he first started junior high, he was pretty popular, but after a while, all the popular kids started shunning him and making fun of him, and all the girls started ridiculing him. People were tormenting him, every single day, all day long. He would have to hide in a corner of the hallway until the hallways cleared, and that was the only way he could even get to class because people would run up to him and throw him into the lockers, or they would run up to him and steal his books out of his arms, and he would have to go chase them. They’d call him “faggot” and “weirdo.” RS: Do you think it is worse today in that regard than when you were in high school? RL: Bullying wasn’t that bad when I was in high school. But middle school was crazy! I wasn’t one of the ones who got bullied all the time. I got bullied to some extent, but…I was one of the bullies too. It was bully or be bullied. I wasn’t one of the real popular kids, but I wasn’t one of the rejects either. I had a lot of friends! But I wasn’t one of the cool kids, that’s for sure. But I wasn’t so dorky that all the cool kids were beating up on me. The only ones who were beating up on me were these totally scummed out sociopath types. This one guy who hated me…we actually had a fight, a fistfight in the 8th grade. But then I had a whole bunch of friends who were my guys, and they weren’t losers, but they weren’t the popular kids either. They were cool people. I hung out with them, and they were my buddies. I had this great big wide circle of friends. And then we tormented the geeked out guys. I would get together with one of my friends, and we would torment one of those nerdy guys. RS: If you remember the Columbine shooting – was that the main reason that shooting happened? RL: I believe the shooters were bullied. There was not a whole lot of bullying going on at my high school. There were a few guys who were totally geeked out – I mean insanely geeked out. They were the biggest geeks in the whole school. They were so geeked out that if you saw them walking across the quad even from 100 yards away, if you’d never seen them before, you would say, “Whoa! What a geek!” You know? These guys were like circus freaks. RS: What’s the deal with Asperger’s anyway? People keep using the term to mean anyone who is introverted. RL: Yes, that’s really wrong. If you have any problems connecting to other people, if you have any social problems such as social phobia, if you have problems talking to people, problems relating to people…they automatically say you have Asperger’s! And that is completely wrong, 10
RS: So what are the actual symptoms of Asperger’s? RL: I don’t know! I mean…they’re weird, yes. But they are weird in certain particular ways, and they are introverted in particular ways. I think maybe I met one Aspie in my whole life, but I wasn’t able to confirm that he was an Aspie. Well, he was weird; he was weird as Hell. I mean really, really weird! He…acted like a robot, and he seemed mean and angry and cold. If you tried to talk to him, he wouldn’t even answer. So…he just seemed like a jerk – the biggest jerk you ever met! An antisocial person – he was just hostile! But apparently that was just his extreme introversion. If you got him to talk at all, he would talk like a robot. And that’s really weird because you don’t often meet people who act like that. I mean you meet people who are shut down. You know how men sort of shut down their feelings? You know those guys who get into the macho thing, and they get this sort of monotone? Well, that’s one thing, but this guy sounded like a machine! He sounded like a robot. And one time one of the fluorescent lights in the library went on the blink, and it started blinking on and off. You know how those lights go? They start flashing on and off, going Buh Buh Buh Buh Buh? It’s a little bit weird when those lights do that, sure, but this guy totally tripped on it! He was staring at with a blank stare on his face like he was on acid. You don’t normally see people tripping on a flashing light like they were on acid. He was…entranced by it. And that’s an autistic symptom. Now, whether he was happy or not, I don’t know…but he functioned well enough…He was a computer genius, and they hired him to work on the computers in the library. Later he was going to college and had his own apartment. But he was a really schizoid type guy – he didn’t relate to other people at all – a real loner. I think he was an Aspie! I haven’t met any others, but that one I met was weird as Hell. RS: With Eliot Rodger, people are saying he is a psychopath, but I don’t think that’s necessarily true. RL: No! Absolutely not. I don’t believe it because – let me tell you something. Up until age 11 or 12, and maybe – maybe – even afterwards, he was a relatively normal kid. There are some signs of pathology, but most kids are pathological. You notice over and over, reading his autobiography, how much emphasis he places on whether or not someone was kind and goodhearted and loving and nice. Over and over, he compliments people – for instance, he would say, “My teacher was very, very kind. She was a nice person.” Psychopaths don’t say that! RS: I think with Eliot, if he were brought up in the right environment, he had the potential to be a basically decent and productive member of society. RL: Well, there are guys who are about as Aspie as he was…and they do all right. RS: You know, some people with mental illnesses…like schizophrenia…can be extremely violent…but in general, people who are on the autistic spectrum are usually pretty peaceful. RL: Ummm, yes, but if you talk to people who know them or live with them…some of these guys have gotten married and have kids…they have these things called meltdowns on a fairly regular basis, and it’s like a temper tantrum for adults. It’s just…part of being an Aspie. RS: I think the problem is that because they are unable to express themselves, that rage is bottled up like that. RL: Their rage supposedly comes from frustration because they are pretty much frustrated all the time. They can’t read other people, and other people can’t relate to them, and there is this total miscommunication going on all the time. They are constantly having their needs thwarted. And people who have their needs thwarted all the time get pretty angry…as we can see in the case of Eliot Rodger! RS: Regarding rage, Eliot had a number of incidents. In one of them, he went to a party near the university… RL: Yes, initially he tried to talk to some people, but they weren’t really talking to him. Before this, he would go to parties sometimes, and he would always get all isolated…standing up against the doorway or the wall, and everybody else would be talking and socializing and smoking dope and drinking, and Eliot would be all isolated and alone and no one talking to him, and after a while, he would start to feel weird and leave. But this time, he went up to some people and started talking to them, and I guess it didn’t go very well, and then later he saw some Asian guy talking to a hot blond, and it really pissed him off. He decided to be really macho – he thought being macho would make him cool. He tried to be an Alpha. He walked right up to both of them, and he burned the guy, insulted him and pushed him aside, and then he got in next to the girl. And then both of them – the Asian guy and the blond girl – said, “Whoa! I think someone has had too much to drink!” And they got away from him. Later on, he ended up on the lawn, and everyone else was having fun, and he was all alone on the lawn feeling like an idiot. The party went on, and Eliot ended up upstairs on the balcony, and I’m not sure if people were making fun of him or not – I don’t really know – I think they were just ignoring him. But he started getting angrier and angrier, and…I guess it was a 10 foot balcony? I don’t know, if you fell from it, if you would get real hurt? I don’t know what was on the ground below, if it was grass or maybe a lawn. Apparently you could push people off this ledge pretty easily. He tried to push some of the girls off the deck! And a bunch of the guys got really mad, and they started pushing him too, and there was a pushing and shoving match…and they…pushed him off the deck. And I think he broke his ankle? RS: He said he got really hurt, and no one would help him. RL: Well, what do you expect? Everyone at the party hated him! He started walking away, and the people next door were having a party themselves apparently in tandem with the people who were having the party where he was at. Apparently they knew what had happened, and they started yelling at him, calling him “faggot” and “idiot.” I am not sure what happened, but a big fight ensued between Rodger and these guys, and…he got his ass beat by these guys. He got beat up. He got a broken leg. At some point as he was walking home, a girl helped him, but then he hobbled the rest of the way home. He was laid up with a broken leg for some time. RS: Another thing that happened was he saw this couple on the beach, and he got some orange juice and sprayed super soakers on them. RL: No, it was at a park, and it wasn’t a couple, it was a whole group of young men and women who were having a blast on a Sunday afternoon. He was watching them, and he started getting more and more angry, so he went and got a soaker and some orange juice, and he came back, and he started spraying it all over them. The group got mad, and they chased Eliot. He ran all the way back to his car and jumped in his car and took off. RS: The other thing about him was that he was mixed race himself, and he particularly disliked mixed couples. RL: Actually…he doesn’t talk much about that. I don’t think he had a big complex about that. RS: I think that in the PC media, being a racist is the worst thing, and his racism got a lot of attention in the media… RL: Well, first of all, the media keeps saying that he had a complex about being Asian. Not really true. In his early years, he had a bit of a complex about being Asian because he wanted to fit in as all his friends were White, and those were the people he was trying to fit in with. RS: Did he feel that he was looked down upon by Whites? RL: I don’t think so. They probably treated him better. White people treat minorities better if they are part-White. You see, nobody will ever admit to it, and I get called racist all the time for saying things like this, but let me tell you something! A Black person who is half-White will be treated a lot better by White people than a Black person who is all Black. A HAPA, a half-Asian, half-White, will be treated better by Whites than a full-blooded Asian. The more White you have in you, the better White people treat you. That’s just the way it goes! It’s a simple fact! White nationalists probably would not agree with this, but the truth is that on some sort of a basic level, White people will respect someone who has a lot of White in them. They love the person for that… RS: I think because he was Whiter than some people…he saw an Indian guy and then a Mexican guy and then a Black guy and then a full Asian guy, all with blond White women, and he hated seeing that. His attitude was, “Why is it that these inferior races could get a blond White woman and I couldn’t?” RL: Well, you see, the thing is, everyone is saying that he had this big complex about being Asian, but…there are only a couple of references to that in the manifesto – when he was younger – but I think that at some point, maybe around age 12 or 13, he completely buried this aspect of himself. He just stuffed it – down into his subconscious. He repressed it. And from then on, he simply saw himself as fully White, as a White man, period. RS: So was the issue that he felt that the White girls didn’t view him as a White man? RL: Noo…noo…he just…saw himself as a White man! His attitude was, “Hey, I’m White!” And he does look White. In his videos, he looks like a White guy. A lot of times, you cross a White and an Asian, and you end up with a…White! You cross a White with an Indian from India, a often, you end up with a White person. White genes are pretty strong. They’re not as recessive as everybody thinks. Either that, or there are some genes that are even more recessive than White genes. RS: So you don’t think the racial aspect of it is an issue. RL: No! He doesn’t even look Asian. And he identified as White. And he looks White. RS: Ok, so why did he get so mad when he saw some interracial couples? RL: Well. He saw himself as some sort of budding White nationalist! He saw himself as, “Hey, I’m White, and I am a superior man,” and he thought Asians were inferior. He thought Asian guys were geeks and dweebs and idiots and fools. And he thought Black guys were complete animals – lowlifes. RS: Yes, he made a big deal about how he was descended from British aristocracy… RL: He was. RS: He saw himself as better than other people. RL: Yes, a really big part of him is that narcissism – that he needs to feel better than other people. That’s his main pathology. And probably that more than anything else caused his rampage. If you want to blame anything, blame his narcissism. RS: He fluctuated between having very high self-esteem and having very low self-esteem. RL: What do you expect? Do you understand how narcissism works? I don’t know if most people understand how narcissism works. In narcissism, we see these peaks and crashes. It’s either they think they are the greatest person in the whole world, but if they are ever reminded that they are not the greatest person in the whole world, then they might crash and think they are the lowest worm that ever crawled the face of the Earth. It’s either one or the other with these people. They can’t be regular. He either has to be king of the world, or he has to be lowest slug you’ve ever seen. Some people think that deep down inside, narcissists have very low self-esteem, and in order to compensate for that, they have to create this huge ego. See, basically, what people are trying to do is – they’re trying to be normal. They are trying to get to that zero-state. They are trying to get to that…norm. They are trying to be ok. So when the narcissist is thinking, “I am the lowest worm that ever crawled the face of the Earth,” he’s -100 on an egotism scale. And you see…the farther down you are on that scale, the further up you have to go to be normal. So if you’re -100 on egotism, you have to go to +100 to feel normal. If you think you are the lowest slug on the face of the Earth, you have to think you are King of the Universe in order to even feel normal. You see? Someone who just feels a little bit inferior would only have to feel a little bit superior to feel normal. I think people are trying to achieve the norm. And the more down you feel, the more up you have to be to get to that norm. And that’s why you see this bizarre fluctuating self-esteem in the narcissist where he’s like I am the greatest man that ever lived or else I am absolutely worthless. RS: There’s a theory that he saw himself as the absolute gentleman, and when he saw girls with guys he viewed as lower than him, he thought those guys as obnoxious brutes. RL: Well, yeah! That’s the whole nice guy thing. The feminists and the anti-PUA/Game people on the Net are going crazy over this nice guy thing. They refer it as nice guys (TM). And they are all saying that in truth, nice guys aren’t really very nice! Well…macho alphas who get all the women – they aren’t very nice either, are they? But the whole line is wrong. Nice guys are nice! That’s what they are all about. And the attitude of the Manosphere is all about “nice guys finish last,” and the biggest assholes – the Alphas – get all the women, and the nice guys get the leftovers. We have heard all these things many times before. Obviously, there is some truth to it. Now, I’ve been a nice guy my whole life, and I’ve done pretty well with women, but on the other hand, I’m not a real nice guy. I’ve been told that I look like a sexual threat, and that I give off the appearance of someone who was experienced…with women. RS: Don’t forget those serial killer glasses. You got rid of those. You got new glasses. RL: Well…it’s not so much that women don’t like a nice guy, but more that they like a guy who has a sense of danger. RS: Well…but Eliot turned out to be pretty dangerous… RL: He didn’t look dangerous. He looked harmless. He keeps calling himself a mouse over and over in that manifesto of his. He says, “They treated me like I was a mouse…I felt like an insignificant little mouse.” So this is really a classic case of some guy who feels completely inferior – who feels like a mouse – and in order to compensate for that, he has to feel like a king…like God! He felt so low that even being King of the World wasn’t enough for him…he had to become God! He became God. I am God, destroyer of worlds! RS: His fantasy was becoming a dictator and putting all women in concentration camps…and starving them to death while he watched them die… RL: And in the end, he did become a God, did he not? Right? Wasn’t he that night, when he was shooting people…wasn’t he God? Who can take your life away, Robert? RS: Yes, I see what you mean. I see what you are getting at. RL: Only God can give life, and only God can take life. And you know, I have talked to people who told me that they liked to fantasize about killing people…they told me that they were never going to do it, but it was sort of fun to think about it…and when they thought like this, they felt huge, 1000 feet tall, like God. RS: You don’t have to answer this, but have you ever fantasized about killing people? RL: Yes, of course, sure. Yes, I have. You know, I have fantasized about killing my enemies, and even, I even have fantasized about doing what Eliot did! I think a lot of us have, really. RS: A lot of people fantasize about killing their enemies, but some people also fantasize about obliterating large numbers of human beings, of strangers. RL: Sure, sure, of course. You know, you are driving down the street, and you look over, and there’s a sidewalk filled people, and you fantasize you have an AK-47 and some hand grenades…and you start firing the gun, and then you start throwing the hand grenades! You know, I have told people that I have thought about stuff like that, and at least with guys, they usually start laughing and say, “Yeah, so have I.” And these are guys who work in offices, wear ties, sit at a desk… RS: But now, if you talk about that, you will be put on some watchlist. RL: Well, look! Everybody thinks about things like that every now and then…but they aren’t serious. But if you are actually thinking about it like it is something you really, really want to do…that’s…completely different. I mean I thought about that stuff, but I knew that I wasn’t going to do it. You know? RS: Have you ever felt like Eliot Rodger at some point in your life? RL: Ummm. Yes. Yes. I have, yes. RS: At his age, or…? RL: It was more when I was older than he was. You know what? I can understand the guy’s feelings! If people don’t treat you nice, if everybody is sort of treating you like crap, you just…you sort of…you want to kill them! You want to kill the people who don’t treat you right. What people want is, as Carl Rogers said, unconditional positive regard. They don’t want people communicating that there is something wrong with them, that they are weird, that you are screwed up…that’s all…it’s basically rejection. You know really – people should be careful about rejecting other people! Because when you reject someone, the basic primitive instinct of the person who you rejected is…”I’m going to kill you!” You know? Just for doing that to me, just for rejecting me. You insulted me! RS: And there is a distinction between sexual rejection and social rejection. I think someone who is being sexually rejected but has a healthy enough social life is probably going to be ok. I think the problem is a combination of sexual and social rejection. RL: Hey! Social life is very important! If you are at the point in your life where nobody’s even being friendly to you…nobody’s talking to you… you’re not talking to anyone…you don’t have any friends…you don’t talk to any people on the phone…nobody comes over…you don’t go visit anybody…I mean, that’s a pretty bad place to be! It’s lonely. It’s really, really lonely! You feel like you are all alone in the whole world. You’ve never felt so lonely in your life! I’ve felt that way a few times when I moved to a new city…You see all these new people everywhere you go – total strangers – and you don’t know what to say to them! What are you going to say? Really, what you ought to be able to do is say, “Hi, I just moved to this town, and I don’t know a soul in this whole place. You want to be friends?” But you can’t do that! See? But you know? You really ought to be able to do something like that. I mean, what are you going to do? You move to a whole new city all alone, and you don’t know one single person! But if you walk up to someone and say, “Hey, I just moved to this town all alone, and I do not know one single person in this whole town. You want to be friends?” Well, you’re considered to be weird! You’re weird! The problem is you are making yourself vulnerable, and that’s not really accepted. People act like you move to a whole new town all alone, and within 24 hours, you are supposed to have a whole bunch of new friends. But if you say, “Hey,I just moved here. I don’t know a soul”…you’re pitiful! You know what? We’re not very nice! There are a lot of lonely people in our country, and we’re not very nice to them! People say, “Huh? What’s wrong with you? How come you can’t make friends? Why don’t you just go make some friends?” That ain’t right. A lot of people have a hard time making friends, and they’re really lonely, and it shouldn’t be a shameful thing to say that you’re lonely or you don’t have any friends or, “Hey, you want to make friends?” It shouldn’t be a source of shame. And we have made it into a source of shame! RS: These mass shootings – it seems to be largely an American phenomena. There have been a few in other countries, but by and large, it seems to be largely an American thing. RL: Well. We’re the ones who let everyone have a gun, right? RS: Well, other countries let you have a gun. I think it is something about American society that is different… RL: Well. How many other countries let you have a semi-automatic weapon? RS: In Switzerland, everyone has a gun. RL: Do they let you have automatic weapons? RS: I don’t know about that. RL: Well, ok. You know, these automatic weapons come in awful handy for these mass shootings. RS: In China, there have been some people going berserk with knives. The was a story about a 40 year old man going into an elementary school in China and chopping up a bunch of kids. RL: Yes. There was another guy who went berserk with a bulldozer on a street, on a sidewalk. Well, you know, people will use whatever is handy for a weapon. But those semi-automatic weapons, they sure do make it easier! RS: So what are your thoughts about the PUAHate site that Eliot was hanging out on? RL: Oh! Yes. I went there! I went there before it got famous due to this Eliot Rodger thing. I went there a number of months ago. Well, on that site…these guys are really angry! And their whole thing is like, “We’re not getting any women! We’re all like, incels.” I don’t know if all of them have been virgins their whole lives or if they are just temporarily incel, which is no source of shame! I mean I am temporarily incel right now. I’ve been temporarily incel many times in my life. I am at the moment. Maybe I have been temporarily incel now for…three months? It’s not the end of the world, you know? I mean everybody goes through this…but, at what point does incel become not normal and become Incel with a capital I? Anyway, about the PUAHate site, there are these guys on there, and they’re not getting any women, and a lot of them have spent a lot of money on these PUA con artists. They went to these boot camp things, or they bought all these tapes and videos. RS: Some of those guys have spent thousands and thousands of dollars. I remember a while back, there was a similar shooting. There was a guy named George Sodini who shot up a gym for basically the same reason that Eliot Rodger did. He spent thousands of dollars on these pickup artist seminars. RL: Yes, they can cost up to $3,000 to $5,000…to $10,000. RS: And a lot of those guys are basically con artists. RL: Of course they are con artists! Most of these PUA guys charging you for stuff are…classic con artists. They’re sociopaths. Narcissists, sociopaths, whatever…I mean that sort of thing was guaranteed…as soon as that PUA stuff came out, you knew a bunch of con artists were going to flock to that industry. That industry has a great big welcome mat, a giant flashing neon sign that says, “Con artists, come here! Con artists, right this way!” You know? It was perfectly designed for those types. And a lot of the biggest PUA guys…are con artists themselves…especially the ones who are charging you. They’re great big huge liars. They’re not ok people. RS: What do you think of the media accusations where they say that the misogyny of the Manosphere is responsible for contributing to Eliot’s spree? RL: Well, first of all…the United States is not a particularly misogynistic country on a worldwide basis, is it? RS: Not at all. It is probably the least misogynistic country if you compare it to the rest of the world. RL: Probably one of the least. Misogyny is much worse in Latin America, Sub-Saharan Africa, the Arab World, Iran, Pakistan, India, Nepal, and Bangladesh. What about Southeast Asia? I don’t know. In Japan, in China. Misogyny is the way of the world. In most of the world, women are second-class citizens. That’s just…normal. RS: Would you say that those Manosphere sites like Roissy are misogynistic? RL: Yes! Yes, Roissy’s site. Roissy is a misogynist, and his commenters are worse than he is, and they’re just feeding off each other. That whole scene is just…insanely misogynistic, really. But it’s not like Roissy doesn’t say things that are true… RS: So what does Roissy say that is true? RL: Well…a lot of what those guys are saying is true, and a lot of what misogynists say is true, unfortunately. A lot of what women who hate men say about men is true. But…both of them…they’re only seeing half the picture. I mean, there’s a huge downside to women. 5
RS: You’ve been a misogynist at some point in your life. RL: Yes, I got into that for a while. But it was odd, coming from a guy who had always loved females from an early age. I always just loved females. I never thought about it, never thought about the philosophy of it, whether it made sense philosophically or scientifically or whether females deserve to be hated or deserve to be loved…I just simply decided that I loved them, and that was that. RS: When did you get into the misogyny thing? RL: Well, it happened when I got older. I had worked myself into a bad state to where a lot of women were rejecting me, rejecting me for being weird. They were always like, “Whoa! You’re weird, dude.” Like that. And…I started hating them for that. Sort of like Eliot Rodger! RS: This is a little bit off-topic, but you mentioned that you were racist for a while. RL: Yes, I got into that for a while. I got into anti-Semitism. I don’t even know how it happened because I was always a Jew-lover, a Judeophile, my whole life. I loved Jews like i loved females, I never thought about it, I never analyzed it. Did Jews deserve to be loved? Did they deserve to be hated? I came from a family of strong Judeophiles, and I was always like, “Woohoo! I love Jews!” You know? But then, in 2001, when the Israelis were shooting up Bethlehem, and they were shooting up the church where Jesus was born…You know, I’m a Christian! And those PLO guys were staying in the church, hiding there. And those Jews, even in the church where Jesus was born, they were killing people! They were murdering them! RS: I think with the anti-Semitism thing and the misogyny thing, I know a lot of guys, when they first discover these things…or people in general, when they first discover stuff, they go through a phase where they are really angry or maybe racist or misogynistic, but after a while, they calm down, and they come to accept the group for what they are. Do you think that is true? RL: I suppose, but I went the opposite way. I was raised to be non-racist! We were all raised to be non-racist. One time at the dinner table, I remember, one of us brothers said the word “nigger.” RS: Was it you? RL: I don’t know! I don’t remember who said it. It wasn’t the sort of word I used much back then. But, oh man! My father! My father just freaked out! I mean, all these Blacks and anti-racists who say “All Whites are racist,” how do they explain my father? He shut down the whole dinner right there. He made it clear that we were never, ever to use that word at the dinner table again. Why did my father shut down that whole dinner table conversation because someone said nigger? My Dad – he’s a racist? RS: You said you called a guy that term once. You called him a nigger. RL: Yes, I did. I did it. I was mad at him. We were having a fight. This Black guy and I were having this big huge fight, and I called him a nigger. I don’t know. I don’t feel bad about it. I’ll call anyone anything that they deserve to be called if I am mad enough… RS: Sure, when you are in a fight with someone, you want to find the worst thing that you can possibly call that person. RL: Of course. You’re going to look for their ethnicity, their race, their gender – if it’s a woman, you’re going to call her a cunt. If they’re gay, you’re going to call him a faggot. If they’re a different race, you’re going to call them nigger or beaner or spic or whatever. Or even a different ethnicity! If he’s an Arab, you call him a towelhead, if he’s French, you call him a frog. You just have to dig into your bag of tricks and find some appropriate insult andthrow it at them. If you’re mad enough…if you and this other person are ready to punch each other, it’s perfectly acceptable to whip out the insults. If you do that, I don’t think it indicates how you feel deep down inside at all! That’s the anti-racist line, and it’s completely wrong! RS: Exactly! RL: It doesn’t mean you’re bigoted, or racist or sexist or homophobic. It just means you’re mad! RS: So going back to the previous topic, these spree shootings seem to be becoming more and more common. Why do you think they are becoming more common? RL: You mean the mass killings? RS: Mass killings, yes. Like this Eliot Rodger case. RL: Well…probably…they’re getting a lot of play in the media! And psycho-type people are looking at that and deciding to do it. It’s a case of “the more there are, the more there are,” you know what I mean? It’s like a suicide epidemic. A few people do it, then more people start doing it, and then, the more there are, the more there are! The more people are doing it, the more people think this is a cool thing to do. The behavior feeds off itself. It’s a vicious circle. It creates more of itself just by being there. The more of it there is, the more of it it spurs on, you know? RS: Do you think this incel thing is more common than it was in the past? RL: I don’t know! I grew up with a lot of guys who weren’t getting laid, so…it was pretty common. It was just normal. A lot of guys weren’t getting laid. It was almost…to be expected. It was like, “Of course you’re not having any sex. Well, you’re not married, right?” It might be weird that he’s not married, but the fact that he’s not married, and he’s not having any sex was not getting any sex was not considered weird at all. It was acknowledged that a few guys who weren’t married could get some sex but unmarried guys…back then – it was expected that you weren’t having sex. It was even harder then. RS: I remember you wrote an article after the George Sodini case predicting that more guys would go nuts like that guy did. RL: Yes. And it happened, right? And…there’s going to be more, even after this Eliot Rodger guy. We have not seen the end of this! RS: So do you consider sex to be a necessary component of living a happy and effective life? RL: Well, yes. But in a certain way, it isn’t like your needs for survival. It’s not like shitting and pissing and eating and drinking. If you quit sleeping, you’re going to die! If you quit shitting and pissing, you’re going to die. Without water, you can live for maybe three days. If you quit eating food, at some point, you’re just going to die. If you quit having sex, you’re not going to die! RS: You wrote that these modern feminists are saying that these incel guys may just have to go years, decades or possibly their whole lives without sex. RL: Yes, well, that’s exactly what they are saying, isn’t it? Isn’t that precisely what they are saying on these feminist sites? What are they saying? The feminists are saying, “Look! You guys have no right to sex! You’re entitled. You think you have a right to have sex.” The thing is, to these feminists, it is perfectly acceptable for a guy to go years, decades or even a lifetime without having sex with a woman because he had no right to sex! And he had no right to feel entitled that way. And women have the right to turn down men…all the time! For a year, or a decade, or a lifetime. That’s their right. That’s women’s right. And some of you guys – you’re just going to lose out, and that’s just the way it goes. Because we’re the sexual gatekeepers. And…you know…? That’s not an attitude…that’s going to fly very well! Tell you what. You go say that to a bunch of incel guys. Tell them, “Hey look. Women say you have no right to sex, and you’re going to get it whenever they decide to give it to you, and…you just might never get it! Because…maybe they just don’t feel like giving it to you!” You know? You think that’s going to go over with those guys? You think these incel guys are just going to say, “Oh. Ok. Well, whether we get sex or not depends on whether the women want to give it to us. Ok. And maybe I’ll go my whole life and never have sex because…chicks just don’t feel like giving it to me, and that’s just a-ok!” You think these incels are going to react that way? RS: What should the attitude of society be towards this issue? RL: Well, it wasn’t always this way. RS: To wrap up the show, do you have any final words about Eliot Rodger. RL: Yes, I would like to make a complaint. Notice how the feminists and their male buddies are all running around screaming, “Misogyny! Misogyny! We have to stop this horrible misogyny!” Yes, there is misogyny in our culture. Well…why was Eliot Rodger a misogynist? Because…as a boy, he was not a misogynist. He turned into one! Why did he turn into a misogynist? RS: And what would you say the reason he turned into a misogynist was? RL: Well. Women turned him into a misogynist! They hated him, they insulted him, they humiliated him, they ignored him, and…that’s what did it. I mean you can say that he shouldn’t have reacted that way, but…people who experience mass rejection, they tend to get…pretty mad. RS: Before wrapping up, I would like to discuss one more thing. One of the interesting things about Eliot Rodger is…I mentioned a guy like Roissy…See, the difference between those two is that Eliot Rodger hated promiscuous men as much as he hated promiscuous women. But these guys like Roissy – they actually celebrate promiscuous men, but they hate promiscuous women. Well, they don’t hate the women – they just have a low opinion of them. That is a key difference between those two. Eliot Rodger was…he was really a misanthrope, not just a misogynist. RL: Well, yes, he got to the point where he hated men just as much as he hated women. And the first three people he killed were…fellow incels, probably. Those three Chinese guys who he said were total nerds, well – they weren’t getting any pussy either from what I understand. RS: Yes, they probably had more in common with him than he would have admitted. RL: Right, right. He hated those guys because they were nerds! That guy just hated everybody, man. And he was going to kill his own Mom and his own brother. His Mom was very good to him, and his brother was very good to him too. The only person he didn’t want to kill was his father. He hated the whole world. He hated you. He hated me. He was going to try to kill you. He was going to try to kill me. The Hell with him!