The Whites of East Asia

Ultra Cool writes:

There was a White tribe in China called Yuezhi, I think.

Turks. Almost Proto-Turkics. I think their descendants today would be best described as the Uighur people, who are ~1/2 White and 1/2 East Asian. However, a number of Uighur people, especially the women, look quite Caucasian. So I suppose these would be the farthest east of the Caucasians. I have an 80 page paper on Turkic languages that is in line to be published in a book whenever they get around to publishing it. I believe that I discuss the Yuehzi in there, and if I am not mistaken, they were precursors of the the Uighurs or even better yet the Tocharians. If you want a truly White tribe in East Asia, the Tocharians would be your best bet. They have Tocharian mummies that have blue and green eyes and blond hair. They were found in China! The Yuezhi were around ~2,000 YBP I believe. Most of the references we have to groups like that are from the Chinese. The Chinese were very helpful in that they developed a writing system early. As a comparison, the earliest written Turkic we can find is the Orkhon Inscriptions (also very near China) which are these hard-to-decipher runic-type characters inscribed on stone pillars. I believe they have deciphered these inscriptions. So our attested Turkic only goes back to ~400 AD. Mongolic is even worse with earliest transcriptions ~1400 with Middle Mongolian. Tungusic is catastrophic with nothing at all written down other than transcriptions of the languages from early Russian settlers. The Yukaghir have some odd Orkhon like inscriptions, but they are not Altaic. They are said speak an isolated language, but I think Yukaghir is related to Uralic. With the lack of early attestations, you can see why Altaic is so hard to reconstruct and prove.

What Race Is This Person (Singapore)?

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An interesting phenotype from Singapore.
This is the aunt of a friend of mine. The family is from Singapore. They are part of an ethnic group called the Pernakans, a Southern Chinese group that moved to Malaysia ~600 years ago for some reason, possibly due to overcrowding in Fujian or worse, the terrible wars that periodically raged through the region. Chinese groups have been leaving from this part of Southern China for a very long time now, especially in the last 200 years. In the past couple of centuries, this part of China has become very crowded. Possibly as a result, wild and vicious wars periodically raged through the area, sometimes killing 100,000’s of people. If you study Chinese history, you will hear about these wars a lot. It is not uncommon to read that invaders conquered several large cities and exterminated the whole populations of perhaps 300,000 people, men, women and children. This is how the Chinese have often fought wars. Chinese wars are unbelievably vicious and savage. The Pernakans moved to Malaysia, and over time, bred in with Dutch and Portuguese and to a lesser extent British Europeans. All three were colonists in the region. I believe that they were Min speakers, but their Hokkien has gotten so changed, in particular from massive borrowings from Malay, that these languages in general are no longer intelligible with Amoy or Taiwanese Hokkien Proper. Most Pernakans now are somewhat Eurasian, Chinese crossed with Dutch, Portuguese and sometimes British. The Pernakans had their own patriarchal culture and were known as very hard workers, often at manual labor type jobs like farming, timber harvest are working on rubber plantations. They committed little crime and had very orderly societies. The European colonists marveled at their high level of civilization. They did keep slaves, but they probably treated their slaves better than any slaves have ever been treated, and in many cases, slaves were freed. Over time, most Pernakans also bred in with Malays. Pernakans are now a Chinese/Malay/European race, but the Asiatic tends to be prominent over the European in the stock. The mixing of cultures over 600 years in Malaysia resulted in some very interesting fine cuisine. Many of these Chinese migrated to Singapore, where they, along with Teochew speakers (another Min group) and a large group of Cantonese Chinese, form what is known as the Singaporean Chinese, one of the wealthiest and most economically advanced ethnic groups on Earth. There is still a division of labor in Singapore, with Chinese on top, Malays on the bottom, and Southern Indian Dravidian speakers in between. Nevertheless all three groups are substantially mixed by this point. Most Chinese have Malay blood, and a lot of Malays have some Chinese in them. Malays and Indians are now intermarrying quite a bit. There is some ethnic conflict but not a lot possibly due to the wealth and everyone being so mixed. Although this woman has a somewhat archaic phenotype (note prognathism), these archaic types are fairly common in Southern China. Many can be seen in the mountains of Yunnan Province. The archaism may be due to incomplete transition from Australoid -> Mongoloid, as the transition happened much later in Southern China than in Northern China, and prominent Australoid types were common in the far south of China only 3-4,000 YBP. I also believe that this woman may be admixed with Caucasian. And I think the Malay admixture is quite clear. Perhaps I am mistaken, but I think I see some Vedda influence here. That would not be unusual, as Malays were Veddoids only until quite recently, and the Senoi are Veddoids to this day. The Mani Negritos are also still extant. The transition in Malaysia went from Australoid Negritos (Mani) and Orang Asli -> Australoid Veddas (Senoi) -> Paleomongoloid Southeast Asians (modern Malays). The Malays appear to be aware of this transition, as they state that the Mani and Orang Asli are their ancestors. The bloodline of the Orang Asli goes back 72,000 YBP, so this group has been present in Malaysia since the very first Out of Africa groups, and their archaism is about on a par with the Andaman Islanders, another Australoid group which is also the remains of some of the earliest OOA groups.

"Black Women and Beauty," by Phil

This article shall partake in an investigation of “attractive traits” with females of West African extraction in terms of their effects with regard to appearance, along with a discussion of their development. Such an endeavor is undertaken due to Satoshi Kanazawa’s controversial work in analyzing differences in perceived beauty among races. Here. This would be a decent example of what I’m talking about. However, it’s time to get to cons. 1. Head shape – From what I read, at least for the average African American female, they tend to get a wider face. Personally, a face that’s more pointed or oval – that is, having a thinner lower face – is more attractive on women. In the case of Black women this is caused by the larger Jaws of Blacks generally, more prominent cheek bones, and emphasized with a narrower forehead amongst blacks. However, I believe this is more of a male trait than female. 2. Nose – Basically more angular noses are preferred but I think it is more of its relative size and how much the nostrils flare. 3. Body – Reading info from Steve Sailor, while Black men in America have narrower hips than Whites or Latinos, Black women have the widest waists of women and even wider waists than Black men. This is basically due to a combination of earlier development of female fat distribution in females and Blacks being on average more impulsive, in this case particularly with food. In some African cultures it’s a sign of beauty. Often before marriage ceremonies the women go through a fattening period. Examination: While many are probably familiar with European-mix progression, examples of African progression can be seen here amongst these Igbo women, an ethnic group of various looks. Igbo Women The two on the right and the second from the left are overall better looking than the one in the middle or on the left end (though the one in the middle is of course notably older). The causes are more noticeable in the one second from the left and the one on the far right, having less prominent cheek bones, more expressive eyes, and smaller lower lips. The eye traits are present in the one second from the right, though she has prominent cheekbones. This trait is complimented with a wider forehead and what I believed to be a more prominent chin. More African women. Compared to the one on the far left, the other two look more appealing due to having smaller jaws. But overall none look hideous, just more “ethnic looking” in which they have the traits to a noticeable but not to an exaggerated degree. All three, however, show the cheekbone trait (which I may add looks actually nice when coupled with a smaller jaw) but they seem to have “better” facial proportions where their faces don’t look unpleasingly wide. Their eye shapes seem to vary, too. Ibo women. The one on the far left shows African achievement of a face highly reduced of maxillary prognathism, while the one on the right shows one that is only partially reduced but is at a point that displays that unique “attractive” jutting I mentioned earlier. The one second from the right when compared to the one second from the left has wider (more almond) eyes and less prominent cheekbones, appearing more attractive due to a slimmer looking face and more expressive eyes. The one in the very middle is blurry but appears to resemble the type on the far right. Young Ibo Women of Ibuza Each of these girls, in my opinion, deviate a fair amount from typical vices due to the lower jaws with smaller lips and noses, though the one on the left seems to have a lower forehead (a vice that I forgot to add as well as possessing more slit eyes. The one on the right is quite the opposite, having quite a wider and higher forehead with bigger eyes.) Igbo Women This is a favorite of mine in which it shows a very good example of African progression that I speak of, being prognathism that is subtle and pronounces the fullness of the lips, not extending further than nose length, an overall smaller nose, what appear to be almond eyes, cheek bones that are showing but not overly prominent, with a forehead that is round. The only concerning “flaw” it the forehead’s height but it’s not that big of a deal. Biafrans. The one on the right has the smallest jaw, thinnest lower face, intermediate nose and eyes size, and least exaggerated cheekbones. Still, all are rather pretty in my opinion anyway. Though we’ve seen many examples of well-formed faces, actual specimens of body shapes yield little variation (from what I could find) to offer in forms of images. Most were slim, lanky forms that, while not truly unpleasing in my opinion, I must admit I would be biased in saying that it wouldn’t have limited appeal. Among African-American women these forms seems occasional but not that common, at least to me. Thus, it is likely due to nutritional factors if not wholly due to admixture, for native Africans were often recorded to be vegetarians, meat being held more commonly as a luxury rather than a given. However, I’m fortunately in possession of positive commentary of European comments on Gold Coast women of both the Fanti and Ashanti tribes. “The women when young are ugly in face and beautiful in form, when old they are in both.” (This is likely due to R/K breeding, causing faster maturation and possible loss in the retaining of younger traits). “In general appearance the Ashanti much resemble the Fanti though they are not perhaps so strongly built. They are however quite as good looking and according to Mr Bowdieh the women are handsomer than those of the Fanti.” – The Uncivilized Races of Men in All Countries of the World Volume 1. by J. G. Wood Discussion: Now that we are familiar with the identification of African progression of attractive female traits, what possible mechanisms in Africa caused the common (without influence of modern opinions) stereotype type to prevail? Well, Satoshi, after ruling out BMI and intellect differences, claims testosterone differences. The reasoning behind this is due to his findings that, net of intelligence, Black men were rated higher than men of other races. This led him to suggest that difference in testosterone, which produces masculine features and being recorded to being highest in blacks, resulted in Black males deemed more attractive and females not. I’m unsure of this inference, but it does draw attention to the stronger association between “beauty” and intellect in Black males compared to females. The topic between his research of beauty and intellect can be accessed here for others to discuss in the comments, for now I’m going into some knowledge of why the results are the way they are. Beautiful People Really Are More Intelligent One possible reason for these results is social roles in regards to sexual selection. From reading Among the Ibos by George Thomas Basden:

“In the majority of cases young man makes his own choice. He happens to a girl who attracts his attention and he immediately inquiries as to her parents and whether she be engaged or not. If she is free he endeavors to through her friends information concerning her in cooking trading and other useful and profitable accomplishments. He also inquires about her whether she be of good temper quiet industrious and so forth. Should these investigations prove satisfactory he lays his case before his parents or his friend for he cannot make the first advances personally.”

According to this, while initial notice (likely attraction) starts courtship, it is actual character that causes union to follow. Some HBD’rs claim that populations in Eurasia had a more directed course of selection, often described as self-domestication. It’s possible that in cases like here with some African tribes different standards in selection caused for different measures of association of intellect – for example, a proxy of character – that caused the weaker association in black women. It is worth mentioning, however, that based on Satoshi’s research that the correlation between attractiveness and intellect is higher in men than women by about 2.4 IQ points. I believe the association becomes stronger as a society develops. The Ashanti have often been commented to have a higher culture than Fanti, and the women of the Ashanti were commented to be more beautiful as well, though the margin between men was regarded as relatively smaller, with the Fanti males having a better build but the Ashanti being superior in facial features. Regardless, I’m an amateur at best with the topic and I urge anyone else knowledgeable on the topic to share in the comment section.

Where Did the Jomonese People Come from?

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This East Timorese man looks more Aboriginal, or better yet, Papuan.

 

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A pseudo-Caucasoid or Ryukuyan type in East Timor.

 

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An Ainuid! What is this hairy Ainu man doing in East Timor?

Maricon Power writes:

Robert Lindsay, I do agree on many of your point. The only thing I don’t agree is that Jomons (ancestors of Ainu ) were descendants of the Jomonese Thailand in 16,000 YPB. You’re right that they descended from Southeast Asia but most likely that location is in southern Southeast Asia, maybe Timor.

”According to Hanihara, modern Japanese lineages began with Jomon people who moved into the Japanese archipelago during Paleolithic times from their homeland in southeast Asia.”

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This map goes along with Maricon Power’s comment above. That pseudo-Caucasoid is, believe it or not a Ryukuyan Ainuid type.

 

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Another pseudo-Caucasoid Ainuid type from East Timor. He’s even wearing a White man’s cowboy hat!

 

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Yet another pseudo-Caucasoid. That man simply looks like a White man, period. Amazing.
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An Ainu man in East Timor! Get a load of that getup, including the most amazing feather hast I have ever seen.

Hello, a study was done using many different Asian skulls. When plotted on a graph with all of the other skulls, Jomonese 13,000 was a perfect match for Thailand 16,000 (Proto-Thai). “Proto-Jomonese” types were probably widespread through SE Asia at the time. The types in Easts Timor and in Thailand are probably the same people.

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Everyone who thinks that Australoids are all ugly needs to reconsider that view now. Look at this fellow. He’s an Australoid, sure. And he’s also quite exotic looking. But he’s incredibly handsome, at least to my eyes. Anyone agree?

 

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Another Ainuid-looking fellow. Actually he looks more Aboriginal to me, but Ainu types also look Aboriginal.

 

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There he is! An Ainu in East Timor. Does that garb resemble traditional Ainu clothing? I wonder.

Some Notes on the Ainu

Maricon Power writes:

Robert Lindsay, why do pure Ainu have lighter skinned than Japanese? Are Ainu Northern Australoids (cold adapted Australoids?) or are they pigmented? I’ve seen pigmented Tamils and Veddas that look almost European; even the Australian aborigines would.

Look at this map of glacier cover in Japan at the height of the last glaciation about 20,000 years ago.

It shows the Hokkaido (Ainu land) living in a climate different from every other Asian countries.

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Glaciation in Japan at the height of the last Ice Age 20,000 YBP.

The Ainu are indeed cold adapted Australoids, and they are actually Vedda types. A comparison of Veddoids and Ainu will show that they match perfectly.

The map of Ainu land is not correct. 20,000 YBP there were no Ainu in Japan. The ancestors of the Ainu are the Jomon. Jomonese skulls line up perfectly with skulls from Thailand 16,000 YBP. The Jomonese show up in Japan 13,000 YBP. So the Jomon left Thailand sometime between 16,000 and 13,000 YBP and made their way eventually up to Japan. When they first arrived in Japan, the Jomonese ranged over the entire country. They were not in Hokkaido alone.

They only ended up in Hokkaido when the Yayoi came from Korea to Japan 2,300 YBP and slowly conquered their way up the island, defeating and displacing the Ainu along the way. The Ainu were eventually pushed up to Hokkaido where the Japanese no longer pursued them much. Hokkaido is where they were found when modern anthropology discovered them in the modern area, but they have not always been located only there.

How Do We Define a Race of Humans?

aircommodore writes:

Robert, you’ve probably done this already but can you please provide a definition for “race”?

Based on this post here, The Major and Minor Races of Man, where I divided humans up into four macro races, 11 major races and 115 minor races based on genetic distance. The questioner wants to know what my methodology is for determining what a race is and what it is not.

Here was my method and I must admit that my methodology was completely impressionistic in that I would just look at how far certain group[s were from each other to determine where they were racially. I didn’t have any strict figures that I was using (more sort of general ones) but I used the same basic distance for all groups.

At some certain X genetic distance, you a race. At some certain less than X distance, you have groups in the same race.

For instance, I created a South China Sea Race due to data showing that Filipinos, the Ami aborigines of Taiwan and the Guangdong or Hong Kong Han all formed a nice tight genetic race because they were so similar to each other. On the other hand, there is no Guangdong Han Race, Ami Race nor Filipino Race as they are all part of a larger group or actual race. I am not sure what you might call them – perhaps those three could be called ethnic groups.

On the other hand, the Puyuma Taiwan aborigines were far enough apart to even be in a separate race from the Ami.

The biggest races of all – the huge groups with the most genetic distance from each other, form Macro-Races such as Caucasians, Africans, Asians and Oceanians. Included within those groups are eleven Major Races the names of which elude me now as I forget what I called them. For instance, I believe I split Asians into Southeast Asians, Northeast Asians, and Amerindians because those three groups are so far apart that you really need to split them.

Within each Major Race, I split each one up in to a number of Minor Races. Within say Northeast Asians, I had the Japanese-Korean Race consisting of the Japanese, the Koreans and the Ainu because they are so close to each other genetically and they form a nice neat little cluster that is away from all other groups.

How Many Major Races?

Problem is that Pygmies and Capoids are not extremely far genetically from the rest of the Africans. That’s the major problem as I see it. I am wondering if there is some distance on some charts though. Geovan wrote:

My main question at the moment is can you go ahead and expand the 4 major races to 6 by including Capoids, Congoids (I think that is better than “Africans”) and Pygmies??!!!

Africans, Caucasians, Asians and Oceanians (Papuans and Aborigines) are the four major races.

One thing you might be able to do is split the Horners. They are indeed about halfway between Africans and Arab/North African Caucasoids.

You could also split off the South Indians. They are about halfway between Caucasoids and Asians on some charts.

Thais and Vietnamese Compared Racially

Who are more archaic? Vietnamese or Thai?

Thai, I think. Thais transitioned to Neomongoloid probably only 900 YBP. Vietnamese transitioned to Neomongoloid 2,300 YBP. The more recent the transition, the more archaic features will be preserved. The older the transition, the more the archaic features will tend to have gone out. This is because generally humans sexually select for progressive features and against archaic features, at least nowadays anyway.

Southern Chinese – Most progressive Southern Neomongoloid with few if any archaic features. Transition to Neomongoloid probably 4-5,000 YBP.

Vietnamese – Moderately progressive Southern Neomongoloid with some archaic features. Transition to Neomongoloid 2,300 YBP.

Thai – Least progressive Southern Neomongoloid with more archaic features. Transition to Neomongoloid 900 YBP.

In all three cases, the previous stock that transitioned to Neomongoloid was probably an Australoid type, even in Southern China. This is why Afrocentrists go on and on about “Black Chinese” –  there were quite a few dark people with frizzy hair in Southern China 5,000 YBP.

Vietnamese certainly transitioned from a Melanesian type. The earliest Vietnamese skulls from 22,000 YBP are clearly Melanesian.

Thais probably transitioned from some sort of an Australoid type, but it’s not known which. It may have been a Veddoid type.

In the case of the Vietnamese and the Thai, the transition to Neomongoloid occurred as a consequence of a mass invasion or movement of Southern Chinese into their regions.

There was a huge invasion of Vietnam by Cantonese Chinese 2,300 YBP. That is why Vietnamese is full of Cantonese borrowings.

There was a very large movement o unknown character by Yunnanese Chinese into Thailand 900 YBP that appears to have significantly changed the Thai phenotype.

The case of Southern China is less clear, but as Northern Chinese transitioned to Neomongoloid 9,000 YBP, 4,500 years before the Southern Chinese, the Southern Chinese transition to Neomongoloid probably occurred due to a mass movement of Northern Chinese to the south. But that is only conjecture.

Also more progressive phenotypes tend to have higher IQ’s than more archaic phenotypes. I am not exactly sure why that is honestly.

An Interesting Asian Phenotype 2

What race is this man? I would tell you what country he comes form, but that would give it away. He was born in 1900.
What race is this man? I would tell you what country he comes form, but that would give it away. He was born in 1900.

Yet another Asian type but we have not narrowed down what race exactly he is. According the Net anthropologist, he is:

South-Sinid + East-Palaungid, with possible Kachinid influence.

This man is part of a group of overseas Chinese in Singapore. That is where the South Sinid came from, as this group mostly came from the Min Nan speaking area about 600-800 years ago.

East-Palaungid and Kachinid are Southeast Asian types. After this group went to Malaysia, they bred in with SE Asian types. That is where the two latter types come from. East Palaungid seems to refer to the Palaung, a tribal group who live high in the mountains of Southern China in Yunnan. How they are divided into West and East, I have no idea. Kachinid refers to the Kachin, a tribal group in Burma who have been fighting the Burmese government for independence for decades now. So the two SE Asian elements come from Burma/Yunnan.

I always thought this fellow looked like Pol Pot.

An Interesting Asian Phenotype

An Asian man.
An Asian man.

I just some more information on this interesting fellow. A friend showed this pic to someone who is an amateur anthropologist on the web and asked what race he was.

The verdict:

South-Sinid + Deutero-Malayid, with Proto-Malayid influence.

Sinid is probably simply the Chinese race. It seems to be divided into North Sinid, Middle Sinid and South Sinid. This fellow’s race is South Sinid, which probably coincides with the Chinese of Fujian, Guangdong, Hong Kong, Hainan, etc. and also lines up with the Cantonese and Min Nan speaker groups.

I do not have the faintest idea what a Deutero-Malayid is. Obviously some sort of a Malay.

Proto-Malayid are the Proto-Malay. This is an early Malay group that is probably related to Australoids such as the Veddoid types in India. They are a continuation of first the Negrito Mani followed by the Senoi Veddas to the more modern Malay. Proto-Malay is probably an archaic race.

The Races of China and Japan

Pretty cool old anthropology article on the Chinese and Japanese races. It’s wrong in some ways, but it still has a lot that should be of value. Obviously such an article could not appear in any anthropology journal today, which is pitiful. Blame PC for that.

The Races of China and Japan

by Harry Paxton Howard

The China Weekly Review, Vol. 60 (12 March 1932), pp. 48–50

The Chinese and Japanese are two separate and distinct peoples, as separate and distinct as is the southern Italian from the Norwegian taken in the mass. There is no scientific basis for the assertion that they are of the same race, and indeed anyone at all familiar with the two peoples is readily able to distinguish between the general type. There is the lesser height of the Japanese (due mainly to shorter legs), the more rugged features, the sharper, longer, and narrower eyes (usually black as compared with the typical Chinese brown), the more brownish skin-color, the much greater frequency of beard.

On the other hand, there are certain sub-types which both peoples possess and which make it possible for thousands of Japanese in this country to pass as Chinese, while there are many pure Chinese who may be mistaken for Japanese. The reason for this is that each people is a mixture of different elements. Some of the elements are common to both peoples. Some elements one people possesses but not the other.

Chinese Racial Origins

Many anthropologists have devoted themselves to analyzing and distinguishing the racial elements in the two countries. Buxton, Li Chi, Shirokogoroff and some others have given special study to the Chinese people, and all distinguish different types among the population, as do also Haddon, Morant and others.

The most complete study to date is that made by Dr. Stevenson of the P.U.M.C. at Peiping, in his ‘Collected Anthropometric Data on the Chinese,’ showing at least two distinct types, though Stevenson is too cautious a scientist to state any definite conclusions as yet. And as regards racial origins in the North, the data given in Black’s study of skulls from prehistoric sites in Kansu and Honan suggest answers to some long-debated problems when considered in connection with some physical types already distinguished by different anthropologists.

First of all there is a Chinese type which is also found among the Manchus and by students is regarded as the fundamental ‘Manchu’ type. It is of short or medium stature, with broad head, low orbits (apparently associate with a long and narrow eye-slit), narrow nose often aquiline, frequently fair and ruddy skin. This type exists in Manchuria and in North China today, and is found further south as well.

Secondly, there is a type which, if placed side by side with the foregoing, will show marked differences. It is taller, with longer skull, wider forehead, higher orbits (‘rounder’ and more open eye), broader nose. It is frequent in North China, but is found to be predominant and characteristic among the Kham Tibetans of the territory adjoining Kansu.

The Primitive Mixture

The study of prehistoric skulls referred to above indicates the existence of these very types in the China of four thousand years ago. The earliest skulls, from Neolithic cities in Kansu and Honan, present ‘several suggestive similarities to Kham Tibetans’ though differing from more recent North China skulls in being longer, ‘with somewhat wide foreheads and longer skull bases, and slightly broader palates and lower orbits.’

The aspects in which these Neolithic skulls differ from the Kham Tibetans, however, are very significant. In addition to the Tibetan type, they include a type with broader head, narrow nose, and lower orbits. Such features are characteristic of the Manchu type referred to above, which fact leaves little doubt that the Neolithic people were a mixture of these Kham Tibetan and ‘Manchu’ types.

Judging from their later distribution, it is probable that the ‘Manchu’ type was more characteristic of the Honan communities, the Kham Tibetan type of those in Kansu, but the study referred to above, unfortunately, does not distinguish between the two localities, grouping them all together as ‘Yang Shao’ (Neolithic).

The Turkish Element

Others of these prehistoric communities, evidently later in date and showing the use of bronze in addition to stone, show the addition of another type which, combined with the previous ones, makes up a mixture hardly distinguishable from the Northern Chinese of more recent times. As previously stated, the primitive mixture differed from the more recent by its narrower skull, broader foreheads, and lower orbits. The new type evidently possessed a broader skull, with relatively narrower forehead and higher orbits.

These features are characteristic of the Turki, with their broad skull, long oval face, and generally non-Mongolian eyes. From the study mentioned…it would appear that the lower orbits are generally an Oriental characteristic. They are apparently associated with the longer, narrower eye. No other race in this part of the world seems to possess just these characteristics, and we know that the early home of the Turkish peoples was somewhere in the interior of Asia. It is an interesting confirmation of the theory held by many historical students (e.g., Hirth), on different grounds, that the Turkish element is present and is of some significance in China.

[It should be understood that the word Turki here refers not to the tribe, but to the racial stock. This stock is predominant among the Turkish peoples, though now apparently mixed with other elements.]

This element, indeed, would explain the presence of the occasional ‘hairy’ type among the Chinese. Most Chinese, like Mongolian peoples as a whole, have little hair either on face on body. The Turki, however, possess a plentiful beard, and a fair supply of hair on the body as well, in distinct contrast to the Mongolian peoples. We find some Chinese possess beards and growth of hair on the body, and the Turkish element would account for this. Hairiness, indeed, is a distinguishing feature of Chinese Moslems, who quite clearly have a strong non-Mongolian element in them.

Four Types

This Turkish element seems to have come in together with bronze in the legendary period just preceding more definite history. The early Hsiung-nu (on the plains to the north of the Yellow River in ancient China) appear to have been Turkish, and Hirth believes that the Chou Dynasty was of Turkish origin. It was apparently in the second millennium B.C. that this element became mixed with the Kham Tibetans and Manchu types referred to above, producing a mixture similar to that of North China today.

There is, however, a fourth type, of the presence of which Chinese history leaves no doubt whatsoever – the Mongol. This type, distinguished from the mass of Chinese by the lowness of the Mongol head and breadth of the face and head, as well as the little flat nose and low stature, has apparently existed for long in the Chinese mixture. Its coming into China was during the historic period, with one invasion after another by Mongol peoples (as well as by others) during the past two thousand years.

There may be distinguished, therefore, four racial types of some importance in North China,— the Manchu, the Kham Tibetan, the Turki, and the Mongol. These four elements, with their combinations, seem to account for every type of any frequency in North China and are found further south as well.

It should be noted however, that three of the types, judging from their present-day representatives, possess certain essential characters of the Mongolian group – hair straight, black, and scanty on face and body; eyes usually relatively long and narrow, generally brown in color, and commonly with the characteristic Mongolian eye-fold; skin color varying from yellowish-white to yellow-brown, though there are fair and ruddy complexions also.

The Turki are closer to the Caucasian owing to their abundant hair on face and body, frequently if not typically wavy; eyes generally full and round (though often – apparently through admixture – with Mongolian fold); skin color from pinkish-white to brown.

The South

The above-named elements are characteristic of North China, but they extend into the South as well. Here, however, they come into contact with other types rarely found among natives of the North. First of all there is an element with wavy or even curly hair, open and round non-Mongolian eye, short stature but relatively long legs, long and narrow head, and broad nose. These characters, which set this type distinctly apart from the Mongolian races, belong to many southern aborigines as well as Chinese, distinguishing a race which Buxton and Haddon link up with the Indonesians or Nesiots.

There is still another element present in the South, a quite different race but now generally mixed with other types – the Negrito. This type is characterized by its woolly hair, very short stature, very dark skin and broad nose, and full or thick lips. Li Chi and other anthropologists have pointed out indications of such a type.

It appears indeed, that the occasionally curly-haired Chinese in the south is usually a cross between this woolly-haired type and either the wavy-haired Indonesian or straight-haired Mongolian element. And other Negroid characters such as prognathism, black skin, pigmentation of the eye, the full or even thick lips also occur. Negrito peoples still exist scattered over a considerable area in southeastern Asia and the adjoining islands, and probably at one time occupied a much greater part of southeastern Asia than at present.

Stevenson believes there is still another type present in the South which he terms Polynesian, rather similar to the Indonesian but with finer and more prominent features.

The Chinese Mixture

There are therefore several races or sub-races among the Chinese people. There is indeed little agreement among anthropologists as to what constitutes a race, some defining 19 or 20, others 40-60, among the peoples of the earth.

There is wide agreement among competent anthropologists, however, as to certain broad divisions of the human species, and Boas…recognizes two main divisions, the Caucasian-Mongolian and the Afro-Australian.

In the first division the Mongolians have straight black hair, flat or broad face, Mongolian eye-fold, frequently yellowish (though often fair, ruddy, or brown) skin color. The Caucasian hair is often wavy or curly and of lighter color, and the Mongolian eye-fold and yellowish skin color are ordinarily absent. The most fundamental distinction between the two however is the relative hairiness of the Caucasian and the hairlessness (on face and body) of the Mongolian.

The Blacks of the second division differ from both members of the first division by their woolly or frizzly hair, their black skin (with a degree of pigmentation which even affects the eye), their frequently thick and everted lips, and by actual bodily proportions, the Negro leg being differently formed from that of ‘White’ or ‘Yellow’ man. The most marked point of distinction between Negro and Australian is the relative hairiness of the latter and the fact that this hair is not woolly but curly or frizzly.

Of these four main physical divisions of mankind we find the Mongolian most common in China. The extent of the Caucasian element depends upon how the Indonesian and Turkish types are classified. Some group the Indonesians with Caucasians because of their wavy or curly hair and open, round, non-Mongolian eye. Elliott Smith groups them together with the Mediterranean peoples as the Brown Race. The Turki are also a people regarding whose classification there is a difference of opinion, their straight black hair making it possible to group them with the Mongolians, while its abundance and their lack of other specifically Mongolian characters marks them as Caucasian.

Besides the Mongolian and Caucasian elements in China, there is only the Negrito, which is slight. We find, therefore, six recognized types in China, three being Mongolian – the Mongol, Manchu, and Kham Tibetan (though Morant thinks the last-named type is not Mongolian at all – two being classifiable as ‘Caucasian – the Turki and the Indonesians – and one being Negrito. There are some other rather infrequent physical types not yet clearly defined and classified.

Japanese Racial Origins

The racial analysis of the Japanese is in some ways easier than that of the Chinese owing to their being concentrated in a very much smaller area and owing to their being a more recent mixture of which the various elements are still fairly distinct in many cases. Three thousand years ago the ‘North China’ type seems to have already been formed, with its Manchu, Tibetan, and Turkish elements, but nothing whatever is known of the Japanese at that period. In the next thousand years the Chinese penetrated into the south and mixed with the Indonesian and other non-Mongolian elements there, but still nothing is known of the Japanese.

There are indications however that while this continual push to the southward was taking place on the mainland, there were movements in a northerly direction off and along the coast. Just when this movement of a southern maritime people reached Kyushu, the big southern island of Japan, we do not know, but it was probably not much before the Christian era. The present distribution of physical types in Japan, however, and their outside associations permit us to outline roughly the development which took place there just as we have done for China.

The early natives of the Japanese islands were the short, fair-skinned, hairy, non-Mongolian people known as the Ainu, now found, in fairly pure form in their communities only in Hokkaido, the most northerly of the three big islands but probably occupying practically the whole of the main island (Hondo) two thousand years ago. This people, whose affinities are Caucasian and who indeed show much resemblance to certain Russian types, were steadily driven north by the invasion from the south, continuing for century after century.

Negritos and Malays

In Kyushu there may have been another element – Negrito – prior to the maritime invasion. The wide territory over which the Negritos are scattered and the probability that they formerly occupied a much greater area than at present has already been referred to. At the present time, as regards Japan, this type seems more common in Kyushu than elsewhere, though it is scattered through the islands, and clearly recognizable Negroid or specifically Negrito types can be noted, though generally mixed with other elements.

In speaking of the Japanese types, our task is simplified by the fact that most of the racial types have already been defined for China. When we speak of the Malays therefore we can state the general type by simply noting that anthropologists tend to regard this type as a mixture of the Indonesian peoples with a Mongolian element from the north. The Mongolian element is shown more specifically in the eyes; the Indonesian in the short stature and occasionally wavy hair. The Malays themselves therefore are an ancient mixture – how old we do not know, though perhaps more recent than the early North China mixture.

This brown Malay element is probably the most important type in Japan, but for fully two thousand years it has been mixed with the Negrito, and also with types from the Asiatic mainland via Korea. These mainland types are of interest here.

Manchus and Ainus

The earliest known center of civilization in Japan was at a point opposite Korea where certain types evidently came across from the mainland. Among these types there was the ‘Manchu’ type which has already been defined, and probably the ‘North China’ type which had already been formed from the mixture of different elements previously referred to. There are Malay and other elements in Korea also.

Of these elements, the Manchu-Korean appears to have left the widest traces in Japan. Though there was some Chinese migration both in prehistoric and historic times, this was not sufficient in quantity or contained too little of the tall Kham Tibetan type, to affect the short Malay physique to any extent. The ‘Chinese type’ however is distinctly present in Japan, though its proportion to the whole is apparently not great.

Far more important than the Chinese element was that of the White aborigines, the savage Ainu.

As the Japanese people (mainly Malay but mixed with Negrito, some Manchu-Korean, and a slighter Chinese element) advanced northward in their steady conquest of the islands, they exterminated, enslaved, or absorbed those of the natives who did not give war before them. They certainly absorbed a very large number of them, as is shown today by the frequency of individuals with Ainu characteristics among the Japanese.

Most recognizable is the Ainu hairiness. Some have estimated that the Japanese people of today are more than one-third Ainu, though this figure is probably too high.

The Japanese Mixture

When we consider the four main physical divisions of mankind already referred to we find the Japanese are a quite different mixture from the Chinese.

While the Malay element is apparently of most importance, this must itself be divided into Mongolian and Indonesian. Another Mongolian element is seen in the Manchu-Korean type and in the occasional ‘Chinese’ type (which includes however other elements). The Mongolian element is therefore the most important quantitatively speaking, though this includes much more of the Manchu type than is the case with the Chinese, as shown by the long, narrow eyes characteristic of the Japanese.

The extent of the Caucasian element depends partly on how the Indonesians are classified, but there is little doubt of the essentially Caucasian characters of the hairy Ainu. The importance of the Negrito element is considerable, much greater than in China.

We find, therefore, six recognizable types in Japan, three being Mongolian – the Manchu type, and the Mongolian elements in the Malays and Chinese – two being classifiable as ‘Caucasians’ – the Ainu and the Indonesians – and one being Negrito.

Through the different methods of combination in the Japanese and Chinese peoples, therefore, we can see some of the reasons for the physical differences between the two. There is little sign among the Japanese of the Kham Tibetan and Turkish types which add height to the Chinese (particularly the northern Chinese) as well as making for a rounder and more open eye. There is no sign among the Chinese of the Ainu type which gives the more frequent hairiness and more rugged features to the Japanese. And so we have two separate people, generally easily distinguishable but containing many individuals of similar types.

Other Differences

Probably more important than race, however, are other differences. For four thousand years and more, the Chinese people have been agricultural villagers, tillers of the soil, conquered by pastoral nomads from time to time but absorbing their conquerors.

But for most of this period, the Japanese were a maritime people, raiding their way north and in the islands of Japan conquering and absorbing a White native population even more savage than themselves. China’s age of military feudalism came to an end two thousand years ago, and though there have been relapses, the essential principles of private ownership and a peasantry free from feudal shackles have remained.

But at that time Japan had not yet emerged from the darkness of savagery, and when many centuries later the light of Chinese civilization shed its rays over the islands, it illuminated a primitive military feudalism which continued to exist down to two short generations ago. The inhabitants of the islands cultivate the soil, but the peasantry remained serfs under feudal masters until a little over half a century ago, and military feudalism remained the law of the land.

It is differences in psychology resulting from these things which are probably more vital and fundamental than the physical differences between the two peoples…

A More Fine-Grained Anthropological Analysis of the Asian Races

A Singaporean Chinese man.
A Singaporean Chinese man.

An anthropologist friend of his recently classified him as: South-Sinid, with Deutero-Malayid admixture and Middle-Sinid influence, with some possible Buganese (Bugis) influences also.

He keeps asking me which race he belongs to, and I keep telling him “Southern Chinese,” not because I know that group well but because that’s simply what he reminds me of every time I look at his photo.

I think it is interesting to break Asians up into these little groups. Surely Sinid is a group – this would mean something like “Chinese people.” Whether that is equivalent with the Han or not is uncertain. And it makes sense to divide the Sinids into South Sinids, Middle Sinids and apparently North Sinids.

I am not sure what Deutero-Malayid means, but the Malay types certainly are different. I understand that the Bugis are a special type of Malay in that they have quite a bit of Arab in them. A fine-grained analysis of the people of Asia, done properly, surely makes more sense that wide classification schemes like Mongoloid, or even Southern Neomongoloid – Northern Mongoloid – SE Asian – Paleomongoloid, etc. That’s not very explanatory.

More on South Asian Genetics, with a Note on Ashkenazi Jews

Here is a followup to my Indian friend’s post on South Asian genetics. Interesting stuff, and also goes into the genetics of Europeans in some details. Good post on Caucasoid/Non-Caucasoid mixture the world over.

Robert, just as an addendum/clarification to my post above:

I’d first like to address the point I made about the genetic makeup of South Asians, including Indians:

I’m glad you appreciated my post and accepted the validity of the crux of it, especially the major point that Indians have two major ancestral components, ANI and ASI, with ANI being closest to modern-day Georgians and 10

However, I noticed that you mentioned something about the Australoid-like component in a minority of (lowest-caste) South and East Indians that show up on a few charts (though not the majority). It seems like you are implying that other Indian populations might also have this admixture. This is completely, patently false.

While I conceded that these isolated tribal groups in the South and Far East of India have a few genetic markers pertaining to Australoid-like populations, I carefully pointed out the fact that other mainland, Subcontinental populations have NO Australoid genetic ancestry to speak of. This includes all other Indians who do not belong to these super-small minorities that live in isolation and are composed of tribal groups and untouchables outside of the caste system.

As far as the tribal populations I alluded to earlier are concerned, it is true that some members among them share certain markers with a common ancestor of Australoid-like people, as recent genetic research has shown:

Direct Genetic Link between Australia and India Provides New Insight into the Origins of Australian Aborigines

However, this is only limited to a super-small minority of tribes that are exceptionally geographically and racially isolated with no contact with the outside world. Even these tribes have been shown to be more similar to each other than to Australoid-like populations, as has been published in peer-reviewed research:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6479999

Let me restate and clarify what the latest archaeogenetic research has conclusively shown about the genetics of mainland Indians that belong to the vast majority of castes and sub-castes in India (excluding tribals):

There is no evidence whatsoever to suggest that ASI or the South Indian component in Indians is related to modern-day Australoids or even Negritos. These are the fst distances, the most widely used measure of genetic distance between populations, between ASI and other populations:

Caucasian: 0.077 Baloch: 0.08 NE Asian: 0.081 NE Euro: 0.082 SE Asian: 0.084 SW Asian: 0.091 Siberian: 0.093 Mediterranean: 0.095 Beringian: 0.116 E African: 0.122 American: 0.128 W African: 0.142 Papuan: 0.145 Pygmy: 0.188 San: 0.203 BTW, Here are the Fst distances for your perusal:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AuW3R0Ys-P4HdDhib1M5OE1wWENNb2haUFFWZzNBMEE#gid=2

If one actually reads this fst distance spreadsheet I posted above (with data from Reich et.al and other Harvard geneticists), it is clear that the South Indian/ASI component is closest to Gedrosia (at 0.081) followed by Caucasus (at 0.082) and East Asian (at 0.085) and Northern European at (0.086). This clearly shows that it’s actually closer to Gedrosia and Caucasus than the East Asian components. Again, the component is closest to Caucasian, Baloch, NE Asian, NE Euro and SE Asian in that order. So its closer to Caucasian populations, followed by a Mongoloid South-East Asian population, followed by a North-Eastern European population.

In other words, the ASI/South Indian component is actually closer to Caucasian populations than even Mongoloid populations, and it is nowhere near close to Australoid populations. In fact, it’s even closer to North Eastern Europeans than Australoids and closer to West and East African than the Papuan component!

We all know very well that apart from the Siddis and Makranis (exceptionally small, endogamous communities of Africans found on the West Coast of India thanks to the Arab slave trade) there is no SSA/Sub-Saharan African or Negroid genetic influence in South Asia to speak of, so the long-parroted hogwash about there being an Australoid-like component in Indian populations is nothing but hot air. It’s like saying that Indians are part Negroid, which is laughable but according to the distances, it would still be less laughable than saying that they are part-Australoid. In other words, the whole Australoid theory is utterly wrong.

Also, the South Indian component clusters slightly closer to the West Eurasian components and in particular Gedrosia, a Caucasian component. Being roughly intermediate between the Siberian and Gedrosia components does NOT make the South Asian component Australoid in any way. Especially, when the HAP South Indian component is almost twice as close to the Caucasian component than it is to the Papuan component.

I’m not saying the South Indian component is completely West Eurasian, but it’s clearly mixed between ANI and ASI with the majority being ANI. In addition, Australoids cluster closest to East Eurasians (in particular Southeast Asians) than other populations. The South Asian/South Indian component is intermediate between Siberian and Gedrosia, Siberian being East Asia, and Gedrosia being Caucasian. It is actually slightly closer to Caucasian components than East Eurasian components, therefore, the component is ~6

The South Indian component is so distant from the Papuan “Australoid-like” component that its laughable to suggest any connection as I explained above. Again, as the fst distances show, it is actually the furthest from all blacks, and then Papuans — Papuans are even further removed from the South Indian component than the East and West Africans! So there is no relation to Australoids/Onge or Papuans at all. If anything, there is a pull towards East Asians, who themselves are closest to some Negrito populations but still quite far away from them.

Some South Asians pull towards East Asians like all of Europe, particularly Northern and Eastern Europe and even Southern Europe in general, with the same affinities to the same populations, because of the ASI admixture which is present in Europeans in ANE form, which BTW is also 1

I’d also like to add that Melanesians and Papuans cluster in an isolated position by themselves and are somewhat divergent from one another, while South Asians are closest to West Eurasians with a pull toward East Eurasians. All that means is that the ASI portion of the South Indian component split less recently from the ancestors of the Papuans compared to other populations and is South-East Asian in nature. In addition, any fst distance over 0.1 is still quite distant.

Also, Dravidians have been hypothesized to be Caucasoids before admixing with Asians in India. Is it not possible the Brahui are the remnants of the original Dravidian speaking Neolithic West Asian farmers? While the rest of the Dravidian speakers migrated deeper into the subcontinent, the Brahui somehow got isolated in the Gedrosia/Balochistan region but retained their Dravidian language albeit with significant Balochi influence.

As for Mehrgarh, the Dravidians of that region weren’t forever sedentary. So what I am saying is, some of them did go to West Asian regions. BTW, recently they found Indian mtdna in ancient people all the way in Syria:

http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2013/09/ancient-mtdna-haplogroup-m-from-syria.html

If Indian mtdna has been found in ancient Syrians, then you can be pretty sure that the Dravidians did go to Iran as well.

In essence, Indians are Mediterranean Whites, with ancestry closest to present-day Georgians, with some Ancient SE Asian admixture of varying levels, based on caste + region of origin. Indians are dark due to the tropical, humid climate, high UV levels and micro-evolution and sexual selection resulting from living in the subcontinent. Also, the fact that their Caucasian component is Mediterranean, specifically, Georgian in nature, combined with their proficient tanning ability and mutation and variation specific to Indian evolution along with the ancient SE Asian admix, also gave them a unique appearance and complexion.

I’d like to conclude by reiterating the fact that the average South Asian is 7

View post on imgur.com

As you can see, this man is 9

Now, as far as the point you made regarding Ashkenazi Jews not having Negroid admixture, note how I said that their admixture was distributed between Mongoloid and Negroid, not evenly so. Anyway, here are a couple studies that support my earlier point about them being 16.4

“Serum samples from Armenians, and from Libyan and Ashkenazi Jews living in Israel were tested for Gm (1, 2, 3, 5, 6, 10, 11, 13, 14, 17, 21, 24, 26) and for Inv(1) [Km(1)]. The Gm data indicate that all three populations have Negroid and Mongoloid admixture. The minimum amount of admixture varies from 3.

The haplotype frequencies among the Libyan Jews are markedly different from those among the Ashkenazi Jews. Surprisingly (coincidentally?) the haplotype frequencies among the Ashkenazi Jews and the Armenians are similar. The Libyan Jews have a significantly higher frequency of Inv 1 than do the Ashkenazi Jews and among the latter, Inv 1 is at least twice as frequent among Polish Jews as it is among Russian Jews.” More at this Link:

http://www.springerlink.com/content/t76x467633412wwj/

Further, more evidence regarding the admixture of Ashkenazi Jews: “According to Behar et. al. (2004),

Even more evidence: “According to the supplementary data of Behar et. al. (2004) on low-frequency Ashkenazi mtDNA’s, they have a total of 3. Link:

http://dienekes.50webs.com/blog/archives/000625.html

And more evidence yet again: “I also forgot to mention that Behar et. al. (2004) also indicates that Ashkenazi Jews have non-Caucasoid Y-DNA haplogroups N and E*(xE3b), for a grand total of 6.

Link: http://dienekes.50webs.com/blog/archives/000627.html

“The presence of three haplotypes at very low frequencies (0.3– 1. (Table 1).”

“Autosomal DNA and mitochondrial DNA samples of Ashkenazic Jews occasionally reveal faint signals of descent from Sub-Saharan Africans from West, Central, South, and East Africa who belong to the Negroid race, which is typified by the Bantu peoples and differentiated from the Pygmy and Bushmen races as well as from the North African Caucasoids (white Berbers and Coptic Egyptians). The hairstyle amusingly called the “Jewfro”, sported by those rare Ashkenazim who have very curly hair of a kinky sort and don’t artificially straighten it, is a probable physical indicator of this descent.

Most Ashkenazic Jews, however, have no genetic trace of Sub-Saharan African descent. Scientific laboratory admixture tests usually show that most Ashkenazim are basically zero percent Sub-Saharan autosomally. This page collects anecdotes from Ashkenazim who did inherit this ancestry. Genetic testing reveals that some (but not all) Ashkenazic Jews from Eastern Europe descend a little bit from Sub-Saharan African black people.

Comprehensive maternal and paternal haplogroup analysis shows that a woman, rather than a man, was the source of this ancestry. (The common Ashkenazic Y-DNA haplogroup E1b1b1 originated with Caucasoid or proto-Caucasoid people living in northeast Africa or Arabia. As noted above, E1a1a1 might likewise be rooted with Caucasoids of ancient northeast Africa.)” More at this link:

http://www.khazaria.com/genetics/aj-ss-african-admixture.html

And finally, the kicker, the latest study demonstrating the obvious Negroid admixture in all Jews, including the Ashkenazim:

http://journals.plos.org/plosgenetics/article?id=10.1371/journal.pgen.1001373

From the abstract: “Previous genetic studies have suggested a history of sub-Saharan African gene flow into some West Eurasian populations after the initial dispersal out of Africa that occurred at least 45,000 years ago. However, there has been no accurate characterization of the proportion of mixture, or of its date. We analyze genome-wide polymorphism data from about 40 West Eurasian groups to show that almost all Southern Europeans have inherited

Levantine groups harbor

So there, that proves without a doubt, that the Ashkenazim are heavily admixed between Mongoloids and Negroids, along with certain Southern European population groups (as you well know already).

Finally, just to clarify, I didn’t say that ANE originated in Amerindians, on the contrary, I stated that “All non-Sardinian Europeans have been shown to have significant amounts of ANE ancestry due to the Malt’a boy mentioned earlier, and this ANE ancestry is related to/is the same as ASI ancestry in South Asians, relating Europeans to Amerindians and East Asians….the ANE component is composed of 4

This ANE component peaks in the Karitiana Indians of South America….It is also pertinent to point out the fact that ANE ancestry in all Europeans with the exception of Sardinians (who have very minor ANE ancestry) is mostly (45-5

ANE or NE Asian is best thought of as very ancient Asian admixture…What this paper definitively shows (as do successive papers recently released after it) is that Europeans, especially Northern Europeans, have huge amounts of NE Asian, also known as ANE, admixture. This is because they are descended in part from an Amerindian population….What is the actual amount? Well, remember that ANE or NE Asian is made up of two components – one is Caucasian and related to Levantine ancestry and the other is related to NE Asia/Siberians and the American Indians, peaking in the Karitiana Indians of South America.”

In essence, what I stated is that the ANE found in Europeans links them to Amerindian populations because both groups have ANE ancestry, and the ANE component is composed of 4

And it does look like Northern Europeans are truly descended in part from a population which has affinities to the “First Americans.” I say this specifically because the Siberian samples they tested actually gave a weaker result than the South American Amerindians on the 3-population test, showing that they are descended from an ancestral East Asia population that is Amerindian-like and that has affinities to the Amerindians of today. More info here:

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2012/09/across-the-sea-of-grass-how-northern-europeans-got-to-be-10-northeast-asian/#.VfRxbs44JNZ

Just a final note, caste is NOT genetically arbitrary, despite what some lower-caste Indians and Blacks and Hispanics and Europeans may claim; all the scientific evidence and data we have so far completely contradicts this notion.

In other words, castes are not arbitrary units made up by the British to divide the South Asian population — they have a solid basis in thousands of years of systematic endogamous practices to the exclusion of less Caucasian individuals.

In essence, the Hindu caste system was set up by the Indo-Aryan Caucasians to ensure that they would retain as much of their Caucasian blood as possible, and it seems like they definitely succeeded in that endeavor as well as if not better than most Caucasoids (including some European and Russian populations) worldwide, then at the very least, equal to Caucasoid populations worldwide, from the Europeans to the Middle Easterners to the Levantines to even some Northern African groups that are less admixed with Negroid populations. Here is more information on the scientific evidence that backs up the existence and validity of caste:

Caste is not ancestrally arbitrary

And always remember, if you ever come across a Hindu who looks distinctively lower caste and claims to be upper-caste, then he is nothing but a pariah pretending to be upper-caste, an exercise that lower-caste individuals frequently engage in, using a process known as “Sanskritization” the existence of which was noted by British Anthropologists during the Raj.

Common symptoms of this include: Changing the surname to a higher-caste one, adopting practices of the higher caste, and earning immense wealth in an attempt to gain a bride of the higher castes. Lots of Indian Americans are guilty of this; which is why so many Indian Americans with higher-caste surnames like “Singh” look lower caste — they are impostors, not genuine higher caste individuals (and looking lower caste doesn’t have much to do with skin color (although, as a rule, upper-caste individuals aren’t darker than brown when untanned) but with facial features, bone structure, hirsuteness, and body structure, and of course, genetics.)

That sums it up. Let me know if you’d like more information about anything. Of course, all of these studies are freely available for anyone’s perusal.

That’s all. Hope that helps you understand the complex demographics of India.

Most Caucasian Populations Have Significant Non-Caucasian Elements

I received this comment today. I deleted the comment and banned the poster because he insulted me, but his comments are interesting nonetheless. His position is that most Caucasian populations are significantly admixed with non-Caucasian, and I am afraid he is right. There are probably few if any pure Whites or pure Caucasians.

The guy appears to be some sort of a Hindu nationalist type and he seems to be making a big deal out of the fact that Indians are mostly White, especially high caste ones of which he seems to be a part. He is quite offended by the idea that Indians are part-Australoid, but that is how they show up on some charts.

He says the Australoid component is more similiar to SE Asians such as Thai people. However, this Asian component also looks something like the Asian part of the Ancient Northeast Asian group. The Asian part of the ANE’s has been called different things, but to me they look Ainuid. So the Asian part of Indians looks like Ainuids/Thais. I think he may really be onto something here. It is a good hypothesis.

He is just wrong about some things below. ANE did not originate in Amerindians (How did that happen? Did it move back from the Americas to Asia?); instead, Amerindians are obviously partly derived from ANE from Northeast Asia itself. The Karitiana of Brazil have the highest ANE ever found. They may be the remains of some of the earliest settlers to the Americans.

The Chukchi are probably also heavily ANE somehow because these very Asian-looking Eskimo like people actually plot Caucasian on some charts! So in Far Northeastern Asia, early Caucasoids and early Asians have been mixing it up for some time. He also notes that Berbers have a lot of Black blood. This is correct. In fact, on some charts, Berbers plot outside of Caucasian altogether and end up slightly into the the Black or African quadrant.

He also says that Ashkenazi Jews have a lot of Asian and Black in them. Asian maybe (ancient Asian). Black, no way. I have seen charts showing that Ashkenazi Jews and other people of the Caucasus have the least amount of Black of any White group on Earth. How hilarious for Stormfronters that Jews are the most pure of all the Whites. Australoids are absolutely not archaic Whites or archaic Caucasians.

This is an interesting blog. What I’d like to point out, however, is that there is quite a bit of misinformation regarding the genetic makeup/ancestry of races and ethnic groups/castes found in India on this blog. I noticed you implied in some of your posts here that Indians are hybrid population between two groups, one most similar to present-day non-White Caucasoids, and one most similar to Australian Aboriginals.

Let me explain what the genetic/latest research has actually shown, as far as India’s demographics and the genetic composition of its castes is concerned. What follows is a detailed explanation of South Asian genetics and therefore, I must warn you, it is a long wall of text but completely accurate and supported by the latest research, despite containing a lot of jargon that may give you a headache. Bear with me here.

Indians are composed of two composite groups: ANI or the Ancestral North Indians, a group which itself is a composite of two or more different Caucasoid populations, that are on average, closest to present-day Georgians in genetic makeup, and ASI, or the Ancestral South Indians, a group which is also a composite of two or more different populations, at least half of which is Caucasoid in nature, with the other half varying in composition from one ethnic group to another.

In other words, while ANI is completely Caucasoid in nature, ASI is 50-6

They are also the furthest group genetically on Earth, from the Negroids/Congoids/Bantuids of Sub-Saharan Africa. So, apart from a minority of untouchables of South India and parts of East India who are not even a part of the caste system to begin with, no other group in South Asia has any proto-Australoid-like admixture to speak of. And Indians are predominantly Caucasoid and group with other Caucasoids according to every genetic test/anthropometric study since the dawn of time. More information here.

It is crucial to remember that Indians have nothing to do with Australoids – those people are completely different apart from a very few isolated tribes in India that have real proto-Australoid-like admixture due to their status and extreme isolation. And this admixture has nothing to do with ASI admixture – ASI is just like the paleolithic ANE influence in Europeans, and half of it is Caucasian (at least half, if not more, it varies for different people in India) and it is a composite just like ANI is with different components for different people/castes in India.

The Reich et al paper even pointed out that the Onge Furthermore, to illustrate just how poor of a guess it was, they pointed out that latest genetic research conclusively shown that Europeans are all admixed to different degrees between at least four main populations of people: West European Hunter-Gatherer (WHG), Early European Farmer (EEF), Scandinavian Hunter-Gatherer (SHG), and Ancient North Eurasian (ANE).

It has also conclusively shown that all populations of Europeans and other “White” Caucasoids have significant to huge amounts of non-Caucasoid ancestry due to the fact that the ANE/Ancient North Eurasian component is at least 4

In Europe today, it peaks among Estonians at just over 1

What the aforementioned information means is the following: Indians are not a hybrid population between Caucasoids and Australoids. In reality, the vast majority of Indians are an admixed population between Caucasoids and Mongoloids – except in this case, the Mongoloids are most similar in phenotype and genotype to SE Asians like the Thai.

According to the latest research, the average Indian is at least 7

It has been conclusively proven that South Asians/Indians range from 5-1

If you’d like a layman’s interpretation of the data in the aforementioned sources, check out this article by Razib Khan, one of the pioneers in the field of population genetics, particularly as it pertains to the archaeogenetics of South Asia as a whole – he writes articles for Discover Magazine, which is a well respected source. He is also a PhD student at UC Davis. Here is a post describing the general findings of genetic research into South Asian populations

In addition to the Reich et. al paper and other landmark papers in this field, the Harappa Ancestry Project, which is helmed by a genetic expert and is working in combination with Reich’s data is also another landmark study into the archaeogenetics of South Asia. It has conclusively proven and further substantiated the results I aforementioned.

According to the samples collected by the project, there is a sharp correlation between caste/location and Caucasian ancestry in India, with the upper castes in all parts of India being significantly more Caucasian than the lower castes, and the North-West Indian/South Asian upper castes being the most Caucasian of all – up to 9

All of the Northwest Indian/Pakistani/Nepali/Afghani upper castes are between 5-1

As for the rest of India (and Bangladesh/Sri Lanka), as I mentioned earlier, the average South Asian is 7

For instance, the average Tamil (from South India, and well represented in the diaspora in the USA as the “typical Indian” stereotype) is 33-3

If you’d like to see the data for yourself, here is the link to the spreadsheet.

For reference, the “South Indian” component is 50-6

Now you might be wondering, if South Asians, particularly the upper castes in the North and Northwest, are between 5-1

Let’s start with Middle Easterners and Northern Africans. Egyptians, Moroccans, Libyans, and other North Africans are on average 1

The highest admixture is found among Moroccans and Berbers, who can be up to 3

So on average, MENA people are 75-8

As far as West Asians/Central Asians are concerned, they show significant amounts of Mongoloid admixture on average.Tajiks have 1

However, some groups of Turkmen average 2

Even many Turkish people are 10-2

So, its safe to say that most West Asian groups are a hybrid of Mongoloids and Caucasoids, being on average 80-8

Now, lets look at the European data. All non-Sardinian Europeans have been shown to have significant amounts of ANE ancestry due to the Malt’a boy mentioned earlier, and this ANE ancestry is related to/is the same as ASI ancestry in South Asians, relating Europeans to Amerindians and East Asians.

The ANE component is composed of 4

This ANE component peaks in the Karitiana Indians of South America

More info about ANE’s relationship to ASI is available at this link which itself references this landmark paper:

It is also pertinent to point out the fact that ANE ancestry in all Europeans with the exception of Sardinians (who have very minor ANE ancestry) is mostly (45-5

ANE or NE Asian is best thought of as very ancient Asian admixture, while the recent admixture is added separately. A recent landmark paper definitively showed a clear signal of admixture in Northern Europe, represented by the ANE/NE Asian component. Here is the link to the paper and here is a link to the layman’s explanation of it.

What this paper definitively shows (as do successive papers recently released after it) is that Europeans, especially Northern Europeans, have huge amounts of NE Asian, also known as ANE, admixture. This is because they are descended in part from an Amerindian population.

What is the actual amount? Well, remember that ANE or NE Asian is made up of two components – one is Caucasian and related to Levantine ancestry and the other is related to NE Asia/Siberians and the American Indians, peaking in the Karitiana Indians of South America.

Therefore, according to the research data in the latest papers, Northern Europeans are 5-1

Keeping in mind that in the Near East among Lezgins, Chechens and Ossetians, ANE is in the 23-2

A table with ANE scores from a recent paper. Remember how I mentioned earlier that this ANE non-Caucasoid ancestry did not include additional, more recent, non-Caucasoid East Asian ancestry?

Well, lets take a look at that data as well. Russians and Finns are 80-8

Finnish people, according to the latest genetic study, are at least 13-1

Lithuanians and Swedes are at least 1

Therefore we can sum up the above with the following three sentences:

  • Proto West Eurasians + ANE/ASI-like = Europeans and Latin Americans
  • Proto West Eurasians + ASI/ANE-like = South Asians and Central and West Asians
  • Proto West Eurasians + African = Middle Easterners and Northern Africans

And since everyone in these regions can be as much as 3

The data clearly shows that Indians are as admixed as other Caucasian groups throughout the world, and in some causes, purer, particularly in the case of the upper caste North and North-West Indians, who are at most 1

Interesting South Asian Phenotypes

This young woman or teenage girl is named Amoolya. She is a South Indian.
This young woman or teenage girl is named Amoolya. She is a South Indian.
As you can see, Amoolya is very much a Caucasoid, although her rather Indian looks would prevent most from thinking she is a European Caucasoid. Clearly there are a lot of Caucasoid genes in South India; not all of South India is Australoid.
A South Indian bride all dolled out in her bridal garb.
A South Indian bride all dolled out in her bridal garb.
She is extremely beautiful. Her features remind me of Raquel Welch. She also has a very exotic phenotype. She could be a Latin American or certainly an Arab. She is probably out of the range of most European women due to her exotic features, but there are definitely some Italian women who look like this. Her genes and phenotype are also primarily Caucasoid.

Beauties from Around the Globe

A beauty, Paromita Mitra. She was Miss Bangladesh. She could easily be a Med European White.

Paromita Mitra, apparently from Macedonia.
Paromita Mitra, Miss Bangladesh.
Next up, we have a Macedonian, Miss Macedonia. A Mediterranid type.
Stefani Borsova, Macedonia.
Stefani Borsova, Macedonia. Med European White.
Next up, some sort of a Miss France and its colonies competition held in the Maldive Islands.
Competitors for the title of Miss Maldives.
From France and its colonies. Left to right at top:Miss Martinique, exotic mixed race type from a Caribbean Island. Miss Limousin, from the mid-south of France. Miss French Guyana, another exotic mixed race type from South America. Miss Cote D’Azur, from the beaches of the French Riviera. L to R, bottom, Miss Franche Compte, from the region in Central France near northwestern Switzerland. Miss Languedoc, from southwest France near the border with Catalonia. Miss Lorraine, from northeastern France, near Belgium, Luxembourg and Germany. Miss Guadelupe, Black woman from the Caribbean.
Extremely exotic woman from Bashkortia.
Extremely exotic woman from Bashkortia, Russia.
Bashkortia is a Russian republic near Tatarstan. The people there are Turkic and speak a Turkic language. The area is located near the south end of the Ural Mountains. The Bashkirs and Tatars are mixed race Asian-Caucasoid types like many Turkic peoples. They have a very exotic beauty to them. Really much of Central Asia is made up of mixed Caucasoid-Asian types.

Australoids As the Basic Asian Phenotype

Thirdeye writes:

Not sure if this has been mentioned or not, but human settlement in India has been dated to >74 Ka by the Toba volcanic ash overlying stone tools. The Toba event made the subcontinent uninhabitable and isolated the Australasian survivors in southeast Asia from the rest of humanity.

The remnants of the decimated human population were confronted with a very sudden planetary cooling as a result of the Toba event, and the adaptive pressure has been hypothesized as the driving factor in the development of a cold-adapted east Asian branch from the Australasian trunk, enhanced by the importance of founder effects among the surviving remnants.

The Dravidian settlement was the re-occupation of the Bengal shore by Australasians. The tone language trait of east Asian/Australasian cultures (along with an isolated tone language group in the Indus Valley) is believed to reflect African-derived tone language among the original migrants. Looking closely at the faces of Australasian-derived Indians, the similarities between Australasian and east Asian facial shapes are striking: round, with broad cheekbones and low facial topography. It’s looking more and more like certain northeast Asian facial features (Ainu brows and heavy Korean jaws) are the result of proto-Mongoloid/Caucasian admixture in Siberia. And the closest languages to the Japonic languages are Turkic.

The truth is that the Australoid is the dominant Asian phenotype. All Asians were Australoids until recently. The homeland of the Mongoloid race is in Northern Vietnam. This race was birthed 53,000 YBP. I am not sure what they looked like, but no doubt they were Australoids, possibly a Melanesian type. The Mongoloid phenotype we are so familiar with emerged quite late, 15,000 YBP in Siberia and 9,000 YBP in Northern China. Later it become generalized throughout Asia, moving from north to south. It is true that in SE Asians, the transition occurred quite late. Vietnamese only transitioned from Australoid to Mongoloid 2,300 YBP with a massive invasion from Southern China. In some groups such as Malays, Filipinos, and Indonesians, the transition was not 10 Clearly there are still some pure Australoids in SE Asia such as various Negrito peoples of Malaysia, Thailand (the Mani), the Philippines (the Agta) and Indonesia and the Senoi of Thailand, but these are the minority. Indeed, Tamil (Dravidian) skulls from South India plot with Melanesian, Papuan, Aborigine, Negrito, Ainu, and Senoi skulls. Therefore on skulls, Tamil types are Australoids. The tribal types such as the Panyers, the Gondis and the Veddoids look very Australoid and probably represent the remnants of a derived group of the earliest Australoid settlers to India. The true first colonists of India are represented by the Andaman Islander Negrito types who came a very long time ago, possibly 40-50,000 YBP. I have never heard the theory about tone languages deriving from African languages before. Indeed there was some interbreeding between far NE Asians and Caucasoids. But also keep in mind that when you cross an Australoid with a Mongoloid, you sometimes coincidentally get a phenotype that looks Caucasoid. The early Samurai in Japan often appeared quite Caucasoid. I agree that the Japonic languages are part of Altaic of which Turkic is a part, but Linguistics has not yet accepted this. If you think this website is valuable to you, please consider a contribution to support the continuation of the site. Donations are the only thing that keep the site operating.

John Titor Shows Up on Beyond Highbrow After 13 Year Hiatus

This is very exciting news! John Titor was a famous time traveler from the year 2036 who returned to Earth for some time around the years 200 and 2001 when he made a number of historic posts to the Internet. Most of those posts have disappeared, but some are available on Internet archives. He wrote in a lot to the Art Bell Show. During and after his appearance, there was a long controversy about whether or not John Titor was really a time traveler from the future. An Italian TV company hired a private eye to investigate. He felt that John Titor was a hoax originated by Larry Haber, a Florida attorney, and his brother John Rick Haber, an IT expert. This is certainly not true as I am personally convinced that obviously John Titor is a man time traveling from the future. The real John Titor disappeared from the Net in 2001 to back to the future, and has not been seen since. If this is the real John Titor making his first appearance since then, it is exciting news since it means that he has time traveled again back from the future. This question though is whether this is the real John Titor or not. It is an excellent question. If it is the real John Titor, then obviously John is still alive and has decided for unknown reasons to return from the future again. However, it could be a very clever imposter who is merely someone from our own time pretending to be the famous time traveler. His prose style does resemble that of the original John Titor. An expert analysis of the original John Titor’s prose concluded falsely that Titor was a hoax created by one of the Haber brothers. This is wrong because we know for a fact that John is a real time traveler. However, if we could compare his corpus on this site with John’s original posts we could come to a conclusion about whether he is real or not. One thing that I found very interesting is that the John Titor who showed up on this site has extensive knowledge of obscure facts about early Apple computers. When he showed up before, he also had deep knowledge of this information which is barely known by but a few people. However, all of his Apple trivia subsequently checked out. Now here he is again, spouting Apple arcana. Whether this is the real John Titor from the future or merely a clever imposter from our own time is not known, but it should be a fun ride. I also wonder why he chose a Bigfoot post of all things to show up on. All John Titor appearances showed up on the May 28 Bigfoot News entry. I will post all of John’s posts here below for your viewing pleasure:

Hello Robert Lindsay, I have come here to go public with the information which I am allowed to divulge. Bigfoot is actually of the subfamily of primate Homininae and it diverged from the homo exactly 4.2 million years before present, which was 0.73 million years prior to the evolution of Australopithecus afarensis, whose presence in the Horn of Africa was verified by specimen AL 288-1. Bigfoot was a pseudo-“missing link” between the Austaliopithecines and the Ergaster genus of species agglomerate. Due to its vestigial anatomorphological inheritance from its ancestral Southern Apes, it bore a conspicuous resemblance to Chimpanzees and the so called “Sasquatch” of Sino-Tibetan and Nepalese myths, as well as the Algonquin-Blackfoot indigenous North Americans’ legend of Da-Ne Kasedanuki, leading many leading anthropologists of the first few decades of the 21 st century to assume that Bigfoot was a hoax perpetuated by cryptozoologists. Bigfoot’s mitochondrial megahaplogroup clusters derive from their Most Recent Common Maternal Ancestor which diverged from the maternal lineage Mitochondrial Eve descends from about 4 million years ago. Therefore, their mtDNA diverges from ours on a rate of 1 out of 1,735 base pairs. By contrast, human nuclear DNA across global populations diverges an average of 1 out of 1,150 base pairs on average. Their Y-chromosome is more visceral and simian. By analysis of their pseudoautosomal region on their Y-chromosome, which is the outermost fringe region of the chromosome which can recombine with homologous regions on the X-chromosome, (however the bulk of the Y-chromosome is incapable of homologous recombination with the X) we have concluded that about 0.0032 more of their sex chromosome base pairs are capable of recombination. The deterioration of the pseudoautosomal region in the Y-chromosome has begun since the divergence of the X and Y chromosomes from their ancestral chromosome 166 million years before present. As evidence, most ectothermic vertebrates lack the gender-determining function in their genome, but rather possess an environmentally determined gender system. The decay of this pseudoautosomal region has been constant at a rate of 12 base pairs per 5 generations, however this is in highly prolific reproducers, and as reproduction has decreased inversely proportional to the increase of cognitive function and prefrontal cortex gerantomorphication, the decay of the pseudoautosomal region has been exponentially retarded. Therefore, we can assume that the paternal lineage of Bigfoot could not have been separate from homo sapiens more than 6 million years, which suggests that paternally, Bigfoots are closer to Bonobos and Lowland Chimpanzees than to humans. The actual scientific name for Bigfoot is Intermissiosius Panhomonidae. This taxonomical classification was derived from the Latin “intermissio” (in-between) and “Pan” (the scientific terminology for the Chimpanzee-Bonobo genus) “Hominidae” (human). “In between human and ape,” would be the formally equivalent translation. There are actually two subspecies of Bigfoot, one is passive-aggressive and possesses a capacity for semi cognitive autonomous determination, which is to basically state one is partially capable of free will and self-introspection. This particular one has a reduction in the triad of Machiavellian personality and extroversion, but is able to utilize these characteristics more efficiently, meaning they lie, cheat and kill less, but are able to do this more efficiently than their sister sub-species. My name is John Titor and I am willing to divulge more information for the return of information on a retrocomputer. The IBM 1500 is the device of which I speak of, and I will leak more information in return for any information on the location and availability of the IBM 1500. Thank you, and I apologize that I must use a proxy, however, I cannot reveal my personal Internet Protocol Address, due to confidentiality reasons … I have an IBM 5100 in my possession. In the IBM 5100 there exists the capability for reading the BASIC and APL coding languages. However, what most computer experts fail to realize is that there exists a debugger code which acts as an emulation perforator for the algorithm on which the APL is based. In 2025, former CIA Director John Boehner and then Secretary of State Eric Dahmer put their intellectual facilities together to create a series of covert operations which placed nuclear remote detonation devices all over Eurasia. This was used for leverage against the anarchists and Libertarian neoliberals who were preparing for a coup d’etat against the newly formed United European Emirates. These anarchists were radical Christian ultranationalists who opposed the Muslim dominated European government and the mixed market policies they installed. The locations of these devices were kept in a closed circuit network which was coded with a language based on the APL, but very convoluted and complex. However, it still retained a mirror version of the algorithmic formula used for the APL. When an inside job succeeded in infecting the network with several viruses, the viruses scrambled our codes based on their own algorithmic formulas, however, these formulas were also mirror versions of the APL’s, because such was a prerequisite to tangibly manipulate the network’s own code. Think of it as a wave. If two opposite waves collide, they cancel each other out. However, when two harmonic waves collide, they synchronize. The IBM 1500, however, is an instructional computer. It, however, contains a hardware part which can be used to fully connect the 5100 to the network. We would also need the IBM 5125 and the IBM 1700, but we could manufacture those because we retained a complete blueprint. I already possess an IBM 5100, but I am now in need of an IBM 1500 and a DX-175 microprocessor. I am running out of time, World War Three shall begin next year. I must return to 2036 before the deadline in the current timeline. … In your words, I guess “it really depends”. Bigfoot was examined by District 4 United States scientists after the World War (III) destroyed a significant amount of local flora, forcing some of them into the open. You see, in my timeline, a series of uprisings between 2004 and 2008 led to the secession and breakdown of the United States, causing us to split into 5 separate districts. We were christened DSUA, or the Districts of the United States of America. Do you remember how when Obama was reelected in 2012 many states threatened to secede? Well in my timeline this occurred in 2008 during his first election and the secession was successful because no petitions were filed to the federal government for secession. As you know, an act of secession is considered illegitimate by the federal government. Your timeline differs from mine due to my actions. You see, the universe is actually a section of “potential” called a p-brane. Potential is what you refer to as “space-time”, and there are sections of those floating around everywhere outside of the universe, but this is on a scale of 17 dimensions, something your science based on quantum mechanics and string theory would find incomprehensible. When two sections of potential collide, they hypercondense into one dimension. Afterwards, they hyperinflate into 4 dimensions. This is known as the “Big Bang”. The uniformity of a potential’s section is dismantled and depending on the multidimensional trajectory of collision form its compressed “pockets” of potential. The p-branes eventually tear from the acceleration of expansion, creating infinitesimal Einstein-Rosenberg bridges which periodically collapse, creating “waves” in the p-brane, which converts to “matter”. Baryons, such as protons and antiprotons. Electrons and positrons. These are oppositely charged on the electromagnetic scale and annihilate each other. Because an elementary particle takes all possible trajectories, the frequency of collision is uneven. Therefore, an imbalance in matter-antimatter is created. On a “quantum” scale (based on your quantum mechanics), this divergence of trajectories occurs under observation. However, on a macrocosmic scale, this is an unobservable phenomenon. This creates parallel universes. This Everett-Wheeler interpretation dictates that humans do not choose between whether to eat that apple or orange. They choose both, but in separate parallel worlds. This is termed temporal divergence. This is rated on a scale of 0-100. A divergence in apple/oranges type choices are attributed a point of 0.01. 0.10 would be a divergence in directions, friends, and sleep habits. A 1 is achieved when major world events occur, such as wars or groundbreaking inventions. Our world temporally diverges from yours by 1.73 and therefore your world has not experienced many of the events ours has. I deliberately orchestrated events which would prevent the Second Civil War of America. For example, I convinced the Air Force to allow the terrorist attacks of 9/11 to cascade by unimpeded. This caused severe Islamophobia amongst Americans, which led to Islamophobia being labeled as politically incorrect. This led to many leftwing Americans voting for Obama based on both his color and middle name of Arabic origin (though Obama is a Christian). This prevented the 2008 secession. I altered your timeline. However, a world war weighs at least 5 points. I must reach In my timeline: Lupus Erythematosis was cured in October 12th, 2003. A successful vaccine against 6 Quantum entanglement was manipulated to teleport information from four protons 10 miles away each successfully in 7/3/2012. An apparatus for artificial cardiopulmonary animation was developed in 2012. This was composed of organic material as opposed to the artificial hearts consisting of polysaccharides in your timeline. Also, the attacks of September the 11th never occurred. … World War Three begins in 2015. However, the exact day the first two nations declare war has been delayed due to the 1.73 temporal divergence rate. Unless I achieve a 5 percent divergence rate, the world war will not be averted. A world war or a war fought by more than 3 nations takes a 5 percent divergence to revert, whereas a war fought between two or three nations requires a temporal divergence rate of 1 to nullify. In my timeline (let us refer to it as timeline A), World War Three began when Petro Poroshenko and Vladimir Putin failed to reach an ultimatum or a compromise. Russia began shipment of oil to China, and Xi Jinping cut off ties to North Korea, deeming Russia as an acceptable substitute. NK leader Kim Jong Chul (Kim Jong Un never ascended to power, his brother did instead) attempted to rehabilitate their relations with South Korea, and merge as a single, capitalist nation. However, this was thwarted by the Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu through District 3 of the United States. District 3 was heavily Republican, and the GOP supported Israel. Through diplomatic negotiations, Israel convinced the United States to plant seeds of doubt in South Korea’s mind as to the authenticity of North Korea’s desires to peacefully merge. Netanyahu did this because they needed a shipment of North Korean experimental military technology to continue being manufactured under the Communist regime, thereby allowing clandestine export of said materials to the Arab world. This would allow Israel to justify transgressing international regulations by possessing a plethora of nuclear devices themselves, their justification being self defense in the face of impending Arab nuclear incursion. They were employing classical Horkheimerian reverse psychology to convince the world they were justified in possessing nuclear warheads. However, the Islamic percentage of representation in the parliaments and semi-presidential governments of Western Europe increased over time, and favor shifted from the Judeo-Christian geopolitical axis to the Islamic axis. The world now favored Palestine and Iran over Israel and the Districts of the USA. The North Korean government felt threatened by the South Korean government’s blatant refusing of their peace offer. The demilitarized zone was breached and the United States District 1 Navy, the South Korean ROK Marines, were deployed into combat after SK declared war. China wanted nothing to do with either Koreas due to their recent alliance breakup with NK and their sociopolitical contrasts with SK. However, Russia made a last ditch effort to support NK, and attempted to pull China in with them. Xi Jinping lent his support to Putin, which caused massive riots to break out in China, as the Chinese did not want war with SK and their favorable view of Putin had drastically shifted to an unfavorable view. This led to Taiwan and Nepal’s guerrilla forces invading China as retribution for historical crimes, taking advantage of the weakened Chinese social infrastructure. This caused American Districts to self-manufacture all its goods it once imported from China, and this caused a drastic deflation due to high availability of goods. However, due to the high availability of jobs, credit, and the sudden increase in the dollar bill due to the deflation, the corporate directors increased the price of goods exponentially, causing a huge inflation and market crash. This could have been prevented by the federal government’s regulations, however there were 5 state governments for the 5 Districts as opposed to a central government. They had difficulty in communications and basically there were too many leaders and not enough followers willing to comply. The amount of legislature approved decreased by 8 This resulted in a reunion of the United States to recover the economy. The reunited USA declared war on Iran, NK, China, and Russia, with full Congressional approval. The war efforts would reboot the economy, however, the United States made the mistake of attempting to destroy Russian nuclear warheads by detonating them in Russia through a series of signal scrambling projections. Nuclear war erupted. Many of the nuclear warheads were destroyed mid flight by United States RIM-161 SM-3s, however there was significant damage to the stratosphere and destruction of wastelands led to ozone depletion, as destructive polyatomic synthetic material went airborne. After the war, all of Western Europe united into the United European Emirates under Islamic rule. That is all I can tell you without negatively affecting the timeline should members in positions of power read and believe my statements.

Skull Phobia

Skeptoid writes:

Can you please post some Indian skulls? The ones I’ve seen so far are like some sort of highly-variated human average, but overall resembling more African Negroids and Australoid types. Unfortunately Google images won’t conveniently sort “Indian” from “Native-American”.

Sorry but I HATE skulls. Every time I see a skull, I have to put my hand over the image on the page or screen or if it is TV or movie, I have to look away until the skull goes away. I have a terrible phobia of any human skulls, and I just cannot look at them at all. I do not even like Halloween too much because of all the damn skulls. However, what I do know about Indian skulls is that one thing they definitely are not is African. I have read a study that put Tamil skulls in with Senoi, Negritos, Papuans, and other Australoids. That sounds about right. Many other Indian skulls, especially as one goes north, look quite Caucasoid. As my Mother says when I tell her than Indians are Caucasians, “Yes! They look like White people with a tan!”

Who Were the Ancient Central Asians?

Sacae writes:

Rob, were the ancient central Asians White just like Europeans, were they Slavic?

Hi, the ancient IE people from the steppes were very, very White. Whether or not there were Asiatics living in these places, I have no idea. My opinion is that the Asiatic infusion is relatively recent, in the last ~3,000 years, possibly associated with Mongolic invasions, Genghis Khan and whatnot. There has been proven Asiatic-Caucasian breeding in the steppes for 2-3,000 years now, but before that, it does not seem like there is a lot of it. Siberia is an ancient zone of interbreeding between these major races. Slavic is a linguistic term and has no relevance beyond 2-3,000 years ago. The progenitors of the Slavs in the Rus where red-haired Scandinavians, possibly due to a Scandinavian invasion and conquest of this region. The Viking types conquered the region and the native Slavs, instead of fighting them, simply retreated into the forest where they led surreptitious lives. This may have been the beginnings of the Slav “slave race” theory of Slavs not wanting to fight and just surrendering to invaders.

More on the Development of Agriculture in Africa

A bit of an explanation of the paper for a layperson here. Lucas Shoen writes:

Anyway, in your opinion, do (any?) you believe that the agrarian communities in parts of central and western Africa could of been attributed to the higher testosterone levels in modern American blacks (and thus prominence in athletic fields, etc.) Particularly if slaves were descended from these agrarian communities? It’s just something I was thinking up while reading that paper and some of the links that it sent me.

Yes, that is what I am thinking. All modern Negroids or Bantuid types apparently have large size, robust bodies and high testosterone. The Khoisan and Pygmies are hunter gatherers and have small size, child like features, low strength and low testosterone. Hunter gatherers everywhere tend to have low testosterone or lower testosterone than agricultural peoples. Primitive agriculturalists in New Guinea also evolved high testosterone. The reason is that in hunter gatherers, there is little competition for males as every female needs a man to survive (to hunt for them). So everyone just grabs a husband or wife at age 18 or 19, and everyone tends to get married. You don’t end up with a chief and his pals who monopolize all the women. In Africa and New Guinea, you ended up with a system where the chief and his buddies monopolized most to all of the women via harems and a lot of the rest of the guys had little access to women. The chief and his buddies were the biggest, baddest, strongest, most psycho, most sociopathic guys around (high testosterone, large size, and robust body) so they beat out all the weaker guys. The females mated with these guys en masse as in these type of societies, a female does not really need a man to survive. So the females can be choosy. Choosy females is bad for society since when allowed to choose, females pick big bad psycho type guys (bad boys) probably with large size, robust bodies, high testosterone, high aggression and maybe sociopathic traits. The reason is that in hunter gatherers, there is little competition for males as every female needs a man to survive (to hunt for them). So everyone just grabs a husband or wife at age 18 or 19, and everyone tends to get married. You don’t end up with a chief and his pals who monopolize all the women. In Africa and New Guinea, you ended up with a system where the chief and his buddies monopolized most to all of the women via harems and a lot of the rest of the guys had little access to women. The chief and his buddies were the biggest, baddest, strongest, most psycho, most sociopathic guys around (high testosterone, large size, and robust body) so they beat out all the weaker guys. The females mated with these guys en masse as in these type of societies, a female does not really need a man to survive. So the females can be choosy. Choosy females is bad for society since when allowed to choose, females pick big bad psycho type guys (bad boys) probably with large size, robust bodies, high testosterone, high aggression and maybe sociopathic traits.

More Out of India Idiocy

Here. This is the latest nonsense out of India purporting to undo the Aryan Migration Theory. It is written by high caste Hindu idiots for political reasons, namely to swipe back at South Indians and Dalits who claim that Aryans imposed caste Hinduism on them at the point of a sword. The fact is that South Indians misrepresent the case. The Aryans did not sweep into Northwest India, conquer the Dravidians, and push them south. The Aryans conquered in the north, and they bred in with and mixed with the locals. In time, caste Hinduism spread to the south of India. Michael Witzel is probably the pre-eminent scholar of Sanskrit and the Aryan Migration question. Here is his response to this irresponsible study, which unfortunately was published in a peer reviewed journal. Briefly, the India Today piece completely misrepresents the study and the authors of the study also make many other misrepresentations of the data. I am afraid that this is the way Indians do science, just like they do everything else – with massive corruption and political overtones. As more and more Indians get into science, we can count on science becoming more and more corrupt and less and less scientific. I asked Prof. M. Witzel about a popular news item in Indian English press. Here is his reply. Happy Holidays! N. Ganesan From Michael Witzel answering my question. ————————————– Well, Ganesan, I have answered that, based on my genetic etc. background info and info from my geneticist friends [who include Thangaraj, Pitchappan 🙂 ] — but this msg. has not appeared on IDDOLOGY@yahooo yet, where this “news” was broadcast a few days earlier… Here a copy: =========== The INDIA TODAY article (below) bristles with misrepresentations and outright misinformation, in part by the authors of the genetic study mentioned here: On Dec 11, 2011, at 7:19 PM, Sri Venkat wrote: > Dinesh C. Sharma New Delhi, December 10, 2011 | UPDATED 10:22 IST > > Indians are not descendants of Aryans, says new study. > <> Briefly, it is well known that “The origin of genetic diversity found in South Asia is much older than 3,500 years when the Indo-Aryans were supposed to have migrated to India”. Geneticists point to the Out of Africa movement around 65-75,000 years ago. As a result, Reich et al. have shown that two ancient population segments evolved in South Asia around 40 kya, the ‘Ancestral North Indians’ (ANI), (genetically close to Middle Easterners, Central Asians, and Europeans) and the ‘Ancestral South Indians’. Add another, Neolithic migration from the Greater Near East some 10,000 y.a. Then, it is usually said that “migration of Indo-European speakers from Central Asia … was responsible for the introduction of the Indo-European language family.” Indeed. Indo-Aryan language, religion, etc. have been imported from the Ural steppes/Central Asia. Note the many *early*, pre-Vedic loan-words into *early* Uralic language, and now also loans from the Bactria-Margiana culture (2400-1600 BCE) into Indo-Aryan. By people with one or another genetic set-up (see below on R1a). The rest of the so-called “Aryan Invasion” is an outdated 19th century theory, just as the early 19th c. one that imagined Indo-Europeans migrated out of India (as some Hindutvavadins now reassert!). There was indeed a movement northward out of South Asia/Greater Near East during the warm period around c.40,000 y.a., but that is some 38,000 years BEFORE Indo-Aryans even came into existence. (Same mistake made in the 2005 CA schoolbook fiasco!) > > “Our study clearly shows that there was no genetic influx 3,500 years ago,” said Dr Kumarasamy Thangaraj. Absolute genetic dates (just as in linguistic reconstructions) need to be supported by outside evidence, such as finds of skeletons. For the period around 1500 BCE, we still have error bars of 3000 years in genetic reconstructions, which makes pronouncements about a non-existent “Aryan” move into South Asia very moot indeed. We will have to await the further, so far very uncertain resolution of the early Y chromosome R1a haplogroup (c. some 20-34,000 years old), to form an opinion. Ra1 has been attributed to speakers of Indo-European (as it is prominent in Eastern Europe), but it also occurs throughout South Asia, tribal populations included. We need to know which one of its unresolved sub-strains moved, when and where. We do not know that…yet. When L. Singh says, “It is high time we re-write India’s prehistory based on scientific evidence,” we can only agree. However, not when he says, “There is no genetic evidence that Indo-Aryans invaded or migrated to India or even something such as Aryans existed”. Dr Singh does not understand that Indo-Aryan language (and religion) simply could not exist in thin air. You need a population. Obviously they had Ural area ancestors, whatever their genetic set-up upon entering from Afghanistan. Even his assertion, “If any migration from Central Asia to South Asia took place, it should have introduced apparent signals of East Asian ancestry into India” is patently wrong as Eastern elements entered Central Asia only much later. For further details see my recent message to the IER list. Cheers, Michael Sequel to my last, general comment: 1. First of all, it is rather unfortunate that the authors of the paper have highlighted the “Aryan Invasion Theory” in their summary and later on as well. That is 19th century talk! Since at least the 1950s (FBJ Kuiper 1955, Przyluski even in 1920s, etc.), Indologists have stressed the complex interactions between Indo-Aryan speakers and local speakers both in the Greater Panjab and beyond, from the oldest text (Rgveda, c. 1200-1000 BCE) onward, which has some clear non-IA poets and kings. The great, late Kuiper’s last paper (2000) has the title a “bilingual poet”. Since 1995, I too have written about acculturation, and that maybe “not one gene” of the Ural steppes people had survived by the time the pastoral Indo-Aryan speakers arrived in the Greater Panjab (via the Central Asian river pastures/Tienshan/Pamir meadows, the BMAC, Hindukush, etc., with many chances for gene flow from all these areas). That Indo-Aryan language, religion, ritual etc. have been imported from the Urals/Central Asia (note the *early* loan-words into Uralic, and now also BMAC loans words into Indo-Aryan!) is beyond any reasonable doubt. By people with one or another genetic set up, — which one that is the question. I will await the further resolution of the Y chromosome haplogroup Ra1* –note the “western” affinities in the paper of Brahmins and Ksatriyas even in U.P. — as to see exactly which genetic strain may have entered South Asia around 1500 BCE, — if any. 2. Co-author Lalji Singh says as per the article in DNA : “We have conclusively proved that there never existed any Aryans or Dravidians in the Indian sub continent. The Aryan-Dravidian classification was nothing but a misinformation campaign carried out by people with vested interests,” Prof Lalji Singh, vice-chancellor, Banaras Hindu University, told DNA.” Again harking back to *supposed* British interests in the 19th century. But, the two language groups definitely are as separate as they are from Bantu, Chinese or Papua. Indo-Aryan is definitely not = Dravidian language or its original culture, just as little as Basque, Uralic are not Indo-European. Confusion of language, genes, ethnicity, etc. Well, Lalji has stayed at Hyderabad for a long time. Did he ever try to speak Hindi/Urdu to native, mono-lingual Kannada speakers? He would had have as little luck as I would have with any Indo-European language in Estonia, Finland or Hungary. Why does he have to comment about things (language, culture) that he does not understand? ““The study effectively puts to rest the argument that south Indians are Dravidians and were driven to the peninsula by Aryans who invaded North India,” said Prof Singh, a molecular biologist and former chief of Centre for Cellular and Molecular Biology, Hyderabad.” Same mistake. Of course, South Indians are Dravidian speaking. And they even are genetically (ASI) different from North Indians (ANI), which this co-author should know from his own (and D. Reich’s) paper. Same confusion of genetics, language, ethnicity (“race”)… The idea of Aryans “driving Dravidians’ South”, too, is 19th century talk. See above. The reality is much more complex. For example, Frank Southworth has shown that Maharashtra was Dravidian speaking well into the Middle Ages, and Gujarat too has Drav. place names. There was a lot of give and take between the two language families, as is seen in the many Dravidian loans in Sanskrit, etc. and the many Indo-Aryan loans in Drav. languages. 3. Unfortunately, as some years earlier before, Gyaneshwer Chaubey chimes in: “According to Dr Gyaneshwer Chaubey, Estonian Biocentre, Tartu, Estonia, who was another Indian member of the team, the leaders of Dravidian political parties may have to find another answer for their raison d’être.” A clear, political statement based on wrong science: see immediately below. By Dravidian parties he means those restricted to Tamil Nadu. Well, Karnataka, Kerala and Andhra too speak Dravidian, as do many tribes in Central India (Gonds, etc.) “We have proved that people all over India have common genetic traits and origin. All Indians have the same DNA structure. No foreign genes or DNA has entered the Indian mainstream in the last 60,000 years,” Dr Chaubey said.” Sorry, *all Indians* with the same DNA structure? Their own paper says differently. He could also say that all ex-Africa populations have the same genetic origin… And no “foreign” genes? What about all these Persians, Greek/Macedonians, Saka, Kushana, Huns, Arabs 711 CE+, Muslim Turks (1000+, 1200 CE+), Mughals, Afghans 1700 CE, Portuguese, etc., British….? Sure, they all never had Indian wives… “Dr Chaubey had proved in 2009 itself that the Aryan invasion theory is bunkum. “That was based on low resolution genetic markers. This time we have used autosomes, which means all major 23 chromosomes, for our studies. The decoding of human genome and other advances in this area help us in unraveling the ancestry in 60,000 years,” he explained.” I hope he will learn to distinguish between the Out Of Africa migration, the Neolithic one from western Asia around 10,000 y.a. (detailed in this very paper!), and the trickling in of Indo-Aryan pastoral speakers c.1500 BCE?? 4. Said geneticists *still* cannot distinguish between speakers of a particular language and their genes. Writing in English — are Lalji Singh and Gyaneshwer both Anglo-Saxons? Or me, for that matter? It is one thing to explain genetic results to the gullible public, but to confuse them with wrong data from linguistics, archaeology etc. is despicable. 5. “According to Prof Singh, Dr Chaubey, and Dr Kumarasamy Thangaraj, another member of the team, the findings disprove the caste theory prevailing in India.” ??? “Interestingly, the team found that instead of Aryan invasion, it was Indians who moved from the subcontinent to Europe. “That’s the reason behind the findings of the same genetic traits in Eurasiain regions,” said Dr Thangaraj, senior scientist, CCMB. Well, as detailed in my last note, the well-known northward movement into N. Eurasia from South Asia during the warm period around 40,000 years ago, has NOTHING to do with the 19th century’s “Aryan Invasion,” dated around 1500 BCE! I suppose they can count and calculate? 6. Finally, the unavoidable dot on the i, from the ubiquitous Dr K., — who has nothing to do with this genetic paper or topic. Bad choice by the DNA newspaper! “Africans came to India through Central Asia during 80,000 to 60,000 BCE and they moved to Europe sometime around 30,000 BCE. The Indian Vedic literature and the epics are all silent about the Aryan-Dravidian conflict,” said Dr S Kalyanaraman, a proponent of the Saraswathi civilization which developed along the banks of the now defunct River Saraswathi.” Through Central Asia?? There is no evidence at all for this, neither archaeologically or otherwise. Central Asia — deserts and all — was settled, pace Wells, only much later. Dr K. is not up to date: Rumania was reached already by 42 kya… As for “Vedic literature and the epics are all silent about the Aryan-Dravidian conflict”, he should re-read the Rgveda (in Sanskrit), not the outdated 100 year old English translation of Griffith. The non-Indo-Aryan speaking populations there (Dasyu, Daasa) clearly are in conflict with Indo-Aryan speakers… Finally, having studied *administration* (PhD Manila), he is not up to date on archaeology either. The Harappan civilization developed in the Piedmont west of the subcontinent (see books by the late G. Possehl) and it spread eastward, also to the Ghagghar-Hakra river, which Dr K anachronistically calls, in Hindutva fashion, Sarasvati — well before the river got its Vedic name, c.1200 BCE. In sum: for all discussants: as the old proverb has it, “shoemaker, stick to your own tools”! ‘nough said. Michael On Dec 11, 2011, at 11:50 AM, Michael Witzel wrote: > This paper  has been out for a few days, and I got a copy from a co-author, one of my Estonian friends. > > I have immediately protested to them and have also critiqued the comments published by DNA. Note that the latter comments are attributed just to three (not all!) Indian co-authors, but do not come from the slew of other authors. The reason, as usual, seems to be politics and notoriety (to attract more finances?) > > To set the record straight, a few general remarks first: > > 1. There is nothing new in the result about an early Out of Africa movement (to South Asia) of *anatomically modern humans* (not Neanderthals, Denisovans, Homo Erectus) at c. 65-75 kya. There are some hints about earlier dates but they are based on debatable stone artifacts, not skeletons. > > 2. And we also knew well about the movements from there to northern Eurasian areas during the warm period around c. 40,000 BCE: archaeologically attested by skeletons, both in the Beijing area (Zhoukoudian c.40 kya, via S.E. Asia), and in Europa (Rumania, c. 42 kya). > > See my friend Peter Underhill (Stanford) et al. 2010 paper: > > 3. Obviously this early movement has nothing to do with the current Hindutvavadin theory of an “Out Of India” move of the Indo-Europeans, who would have settled Europe: that would be tens of thousands of years later. (The same mistake was made during the CA schoolbook affair … by a CA biologist! They never learn…) > > For a popular overview with maps see St. Oppenheimer’s website  or that of the National Geographic. > > Around 40,000 BCE there were neither “Aryans” nor Indo-Europeans around, not even speakers of the giant Nostratic language family, at best of the still earlier hypothetical Borean super-language family, proposed by my friend, the Africanist Harold Fleming (see WIKI). Likewise, no Dravidian language family yet, which may in fact be part of Nostratic anyhow. > > This northward move is a general phenomenon, as is the subsequent severe contraction southward during the last Ice age around 20 kya, when the four or five major human types (not “races”) developed in isolation: Europe, S.Asia, (Sunda Land: S.E. Asia), E. Asia, Sahul Land (New Guinea-Australia), — for example with two separate, independent mutations producing white skin color in Europe and in East Asia. > > 3. The paper by my Boston geneticist friend David Reich et al. has shown that South Asia has two ancient population segments evolving from the early Out of Africa people around 40 kya, the ‘Ancestral North Indians’ (ANI), (genetically close to Middle Easterners, Central Asians, and Europeans) and the ‘Ancestral South Indians’ (ASI), so named after I had cautioned him and Nick Patterson about the political danger involving the naming of these groups. As you can see, even this nomenclature did not help to dispel preconceived Hindutva bias about “Aryans” and Dravidians. > > At 40 kya there were no “Aryans” and no “Dravidians” around yet. > > 4. If we then want to speak about “Aryans” (more correctly: speakers of Indo-Aryan language) and speakers of the early Dravidian language at all, we first of all have to disconnect language from ethnicity or “race”. I am not an Anglo-Saxon, just because I speak and write in English here, nor are Chaubey, Singh and Thangaraj. > > Language can change within 2 generations, as all Americans know and as Indians *should* know: not just in large cities, but also in tribal areas where people take over the dominant regional language, for obvious social reasons. > > The 3 Indian geneticists quote by DNA confuse language use with genetic setup, ethnicity, culture, religion etc. All of them easily (and *mutually*) transgress genetic boundaries. > > 5. If when then speak about Indo-Aryans or Dravidians at c. 3500 years ago, and want to link them with genetic data, we must take into account that all these studies are based on modern DNA, and depend on *assumed* mutation rates (going back to the Chimpazee-Human split of 5-7 million years ago); the genetic results thus provide good *relative* dates, but not absolute dates. > > Absolute dates (just as in linguistic reconstructions) need to be supported by outside evidence, such as finds of skeletons of anatomically modern humans, as mentioned above. (By the way these are earlier at Lake Mungo in Australia at c. 50 kya and Europe/China than in South Asia, where they only appear in Sri Lanka at c.30 kya. Facetiously: an Out of Australia migration to Eurasia?) > > 6. Worse, there are huge error bars in all these models. It may not matter very much if we have error bars of some 10,000 years for the Out of Africa move, but for the period around 1500 BCE, we still have error bars of 3000 years, which makes all pronouncements about a non-existent “Aryan” move into South Asia, based on current genetic data, very moot indeed. > > The “Western Asian/Central Asian” strain in northern India/Pakistan (as per this paper by Metspalu et al.) may well be due to Persian, Greek/Makedonian, Saka, Kushana, Hun, Arab (711 CE+), Islamic Turks 1000 CE/1200 CE, Portuguese etc. (1500 CE+) or British gene influx. > > I will await the further, so far very uncertain resolution of the Y chromosome R1a haplogroup to form an opinion. Ra1a has been attributed to speakers of Indo-European (as it is prominent in Eastern Europe) but it also occurs throughout South Asia, tribal populations included. We need to know which sub-strain moved: when and where. > > 7. All of which leaves most of the comments by Singh, Thangaraj and Chaubey high and dry. More about them in my next message. > > An interesting weekend, apparently. Luckily, the semester is over… > Cheers, > > Michael > If you think this website is valuable to you, please consider a contribution to support the continuation of the site. Donations are the only thing that keep the site operating.

The Major Races of Man

The original title of this post was, Does a Caucasian Race Exist? but I changed it as I put the charts in. First we will look at the existence of a Caucasian race, then we will look at the major races of man. Many non-Caucasians feel that there is no such thing as a Caucasian race, while still holding that African and maybe Asian are valid racial constructs. However, Caucasian is as valid a construct as Asian, Australoid, or African, at least on genes. I have not studied skull charts very well. It is pretty clear based on genetics that you can divide off a Caucasian race, an Asian race, an African race and an Australoid race. You may even be able to divide out an Amerindian race somewhere. But the four big splits are: Caucasian African Australoid Asian That is as clear as air, and I don’t see why it would be controversial. On most of those charts, Indians would plot with Caucasians, but on some they look a little Australoid. Depends on the chart you look at. On other charts, Indians are a race halfway between Caucasians and Asians. Also on that same chart, we can see a Horner race halfway between Caucasians and Africans. Here are some charts of the major races:

This chart shows the incredible distance of Africans from all other human races. Africans are very different.
This chart shows the incredible distance of Africans from all other human races. Africans are very different.
Africans are so far from the other races that racists like to call them a separate subspecies of species, but I doubt if that is valid, and even if it were, it would not be right to go down that road.
Once again we see a very great distance between Africans and all other races on this chart, which divides humans dubiously into 9 separate races.
Once again we see a very great distance between Africans and all other races on this chart, which divides humans dubiously into 9 separate races.
However, I do feel that a 6 race theory based on this chart would be correct: NE Asians/Arctic NE Asians Amerindians New Guinea/Australian SE Asian/Pacific Islander European Caucasian/Non European Caucasian African
This chart also shows Africans as extreme outliers and divides humanity into 8 races.
This chart also shows Africans as extreme outliers and divides humanity into 8 races.
The races are the same as above: NE Asians Arctic NE Asians Amerindians New Guinea/Australian SE Asian Pacific Islander Caucasian African except that NE Asians and Arctic NE Asians are separted (possibly a valid choice) and SE Asians and Pacific Islanders are separated (a similarly valid choice). Europeans and non-European Caucasians are subsumed into a single race because the differences between them are slight.
Very interesting chart shows a lot more flow between groups and shows some groups straddling borders of other groups.
Very interesting chart shows a lot more flow between groups and shows some groups straddling borders of other groups.
On this chart, you can see the divergence of East Indians, heading off towards SE Asians. We can also see a pretty dramatic separation between NE Asians and SE Asians, including different types of Chinese. The difference between say a Chukchi, a Samoyed and an Nganasan and a Thai or an Indonesian is quite dramatic. We also see that “Gurkas,” possibly Nepalese, are separated off into SE Asians, which is interesting. They are on a sort of border between SE Asians and NE Asians. In addition, the Northern Turkics (like the Altai and the Uighurs) very much straddle the border between Caucasians and NE Asians, falling barely into the Caucasian group. Uzbeks are also on the line, and Northern Chinese and the Chukchi are close to Caucasians. I have seen charts where the Chukchi were actually over into the Caucasian square!
A five race theory.
A five race theory.
This five race theory has: Amerindians/Arctic NE Asians (Amerindians) SE Asians/NE Asians/Pacific Islanders (Asians) Oceanians Caucasians Africans That chart is not as fine grained as the others, but it’s based on genetics like all the others are. All of the above charts are based on genes, so clearly, genetically, we can split out an obvious Caucasian major race. I have a hard time why people do not wish to accept this concept.

Australoids As the Base Race of Both Asia and the Americas

Real White Nationalist writes:

So are South Indians today basically Caucasoids with some Australoid genes? What percent of Australoid do they have?

Yes of course. On some charts, South Indians just plot Caucasoid, but on other charts if you compare them to say Andaman Islanders, you can see the Southerners plot pretty well. The North Indians will plot a lot less closer to Australoids. The South Indians are more Australoid and the North Indians are more Caucasoid. At this point, they are most Caucasoid on genes I THINK. It is another race that has transitioned Australoid -> like NE and SE Asians. Many Northerners are mostly Caucasoid, but in the North, they are also 1 Some Australoid transitions to modern races: In the Caucasus to Central Asia, the transition went Australoid (ancient Paleomongoloid Chinese Ainuid) + African (ancient African, possibly ancient Khoisanid -> Caucasoid (16-42,000 YBP in North Africa, the Middle East, Europe and Eurasia.) Probably no remaining unfinished types except possibly Mozabite Berberids in Algeria (very primitive Caucasoids) In NE Asia, the transition went Australoid -> NE Asian (9000 YBP) It is unfinished in Ainus. In SE Asia, the transition went Australoid -> SE Asian (2-2500 YBP). It may not have transitioned completely in Indonesians. It is unfinished in Melanesians, Papuans, Senoi and Negritos. In India, the transition went Australoid -> Caucasoid (7-8000 YBP). It is unfinished in Veddoids, Tamils and Sri Lankans. In the Americas, the transition went Australoid -> Amerindian (7-9000 YBP). No or few remaining unfinished groups, but some unfinished groups may have lingered until the 18th Century in Baja California.

Phenotypical Differences Between NE Asians and SE Asians

Dave Coe writes:

What about in terms of looks? I personally find Northeast Asian women more attractive, but all the white guys who go to Asia seem to go the Southeast.

The Mongoloid race is newer in SE Asia than in NE Asia. In NE Asia, there was a full transition from Australoid to Mongoloid 9,000 YBP. In SE Asia, the full transition occurred as late as 2,000 YBP, hence you do tend to see more Australoid features in the SE Asian Mongoloids because the transition was so recent. I suppose to be crude you could say that SE Asians retain more archaic features, and NE Asians have fewer archaic and more progressive features. There is a lot of overlap though. I can’t believe how Chinese many Filipinas look. I am not sure why this is. Possibly the Taiwanese aborigines from which they are heavily derived had a heavy “Chinese” type component. There has also been a heavy infusion of more modern Chinese types in the past 900 years. There was a particularly heavy wave 900 years ago. Vietnamese women also have a heavily “Chinese” component. What happened in SE Asia in the last 2000 years is that there was a very heavy infusion of probably more progressive Chinese phenotypes from southern China that moved in via waves into mainland SE Asia and at least the Philippines. The indigenous SE Asians were more archaic Australoid types  – more properly seen as “Melanesian” types who nevertheless had been transitioning towards a more modern Mongoloid type for a long time. The waves just helped this along in a big way. The Thais and Lao for instance are primarily derived from a heavy wave from Yunnan 900 years ago that mixed in with indigenous types. In Vietnam, a huge wave overran the area 2,200 years ago via the Cantonese region and subsequently interbred with indigenous types. “Montagnards” are a good example of an indigenous type in Vietnam. The genetics of Malaysia, Burma, Cambodia and Indonesia are a lot more complicated.

Are Jews Brighter Due to Mongoloid Genes?

Gay Area Girl writes:

I heard a someone speculate that Ashkenazim are more intelligent than Whites because they possess more Mongoloid genes due to being (supposedly) descended from the Khazars, and later accumulating genes from the Genghis Khan and his army, though inland Central Asian populations have significantly lower IQ’s than Coastal East Asians (source Huax.)

Ashkenazim are not smart due to Mongoloid genes. Those Khazarian genes are not that great for intellgience anyway. Turks have more genes from the Mongolian raiders are Jews do. Afghans, Iranians, Iraqis all have plenty of genes from Genghis Khan. So do the Hazara, who may well be the leftovers of Khan’s invasions. None of these groups are particularly bright.

               IQ*
Group
Ashkenazi Jews 118?
Mizrachi Jews   93
US Whites      103
Turks           93
Kazakhs         88
Afghans         86
Iranians        88
Iraqi           90
Hazara          86?

*IQ based on a US score of 100, which puts US Whites at 103. As you can see, the addition of genes from Khan’s conquerors doesn’t exactly do wonders for your IQ. We can see this by comparing the results in groups who have substantial introgression of genes from Khan’s invasions. If anything, Khazarian genes of genes from Khan’s raiders would have lowered the Ashkenazi IQ. The Ashkenazi IQ, without their sojourn in Europe, may well have ended up around 93, where the Mizrachi Jewish IQ is. We can also see that the introgression of 100 IQ White genes in a 90 IQ pre-Ashkenzi population is not enough to raise the figure up to the astounding 118. The best explanation is probably genetic selection pressures while the Ashkenazim were in Europe. The Ashkenazim practiced a form of Talmudic Judaism in their ghettos whereby the males were required to learn to read and study the Torah and the Talmud. The Talmud is 13,000 pages. This was during a time when few could read or write. Reportedly those who could not cut it simply converted to Christianity and left Judaism to marry Christian women. Also Jews highly valued intelligence. The rabbis would have virtual IQ tests to see who would marry their daughters. The boys would all compete to get the girl. The smartest boy would get the rabbi’s hottie daughter. Wealthier Jews and rabbis tended to have larger families. Later, Jews got into various trades such as money lending, banking and accounting which required a lot more brain work than that of your average Christian peasant, an uneducated serf toiling the soil. Presumably Jews who could not cut it may have left Judaism. Jews are extremely inbred, as can be seen by the number of genetic diseases that they have. Presumably this inbreeding has somehow selected for various genes promoting high intelligence. Car Guy writes:

The IQ structure of Jews is probably furthest from that of Mongoloids: More verbal, way less visuospatial. It’s more in line with Whites’, which isn’t surprising — Jews are essentially White people, thanks to centuries of mixing.

Car Guy is correct. The Jewish IQ looks very “White” or “European.” It doesn’t look East Asian at all. Of course Jews are White people – just look at them.

What Race Are the People of India?

OMG, OMG, the holy city of Caucasoid (i.e.White) India full of high caste Aryans: Knew you’d love it, Robert… any comment? Oh, BTW, dare I recommend blue Lassi from Lassi dudes? Looks awesome! 3 cheers for the Pan-Aryanism! ^o^

This guy’s making fun of me. Those are not all high caste Indians. Sure, Varnasi is a sickening mess. I’ve written about it a lot here. I wrote extensively about the races of India earlier, but I lacked some good information that conclusively shows that many of the people of South India are actually not Caucasoids and that there is a large Australoid element in India, not only on skulls but on genes also. On genes, many South Indians plot close to Andaman Islanders, who are probably their ancient relatives Indians are actually mixed between Australoids and Caucasoids, not just on skulls, but on genes too. I had a chart on this a while ago, but I lost the link to it. South Indians seem to be quite Australoid. North Indians less so. Indians vary. Some are almost pure Australoid, and others are almost pure Caucasoid, particularly in the north. Of course there are Asians in the East and in the far northwest. There is nothing innately superior about Caucasoid types anyway. We can be as screwed up as any race out there. Our IQ’s range widely. Many Arabid IQ’s are quite low. Qatar has an IQ of only 79, and Nepal, a Caucasoid-Asian mix, also has a 79 IQ. Afghanistan has an IQ of 82 as does Morocco and largely Caucasoid Pakistan.

Look At How White Egyptians Look

[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pp3-GmILyPg I was amazed looking at this video how Caucasian these people look. They don’t look like Black people at all, and modern Egyptians are even Blacker than the ancients. They look like Caucasians, and I was surprised how many many of them had pale White skins and blatant Europid phenotypes. Even the Arabid phenotype just looks like a White person with a funny nose and a tan. They’re simply desert-adapted Caucasoids. Sure, they have a little bit of Black in them. So what? The overwhelming majority of the genome is Caucasoid. US Blacks have more White in them than the average Arab has Black. Therefore, US Blacks are not Black, instead they are White? Give it up. Arabs are Whites, get over it. Further, Arabs consider themselves White. I am friends with some local Yemenis, and I told them they are White just look me and they gave me the thumbs up. They’re not only White, they’re White Priders! WPWW camel jockeys! “Of course we are White,” they said. They differentiate themselves from Blacks, who they consider a different race. They told me that there are many Blacks in Yemen, but they referred to them as if they were a different race. I also told them that the original European Whites were Arabids. If you go back 12,000 years, the European phenotype and genes look Arab. “So Arabs are the original Europeans. They’re the original Whites,” I told them. “Of course we are,” they said. “We know this.” Look closely at the Arabid phenotype. It’s Caucasoid, and in many cases, it’s downright Europid. So they have brown skin, so what. Caucasian doesn’t equal White. Many Caucasians have pretty dark skins. A White person with a tan is still White. Pan-Aryanism!

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