If you want to know how I know so much about these issues, this is one of the Telegram channels that I use. It’s called Resistance News Network. They are extremely radical and seem to be associated with the Leftist or Marxist PFLP. But the PFLP have always been ultra-radicals. In fact, recently the PFLP, whose membership is Christian, secular, or atheist, has formed a deep alliance with Hamas, whose members are very religious Muslim Islamists. The PFLP also now has a deep relationship with Iran, a fundamentalist Muslim regime.
The people who run that site are extremely radical and cheer for all attacks and killings of Israeli Jewish civilians, even of tourists, past and present, which it calls “Operations.” They call Israeli Jews “settlers,” and most don’t know that Palestinian armed groups see all Israeli Jewish civilians as “settlers” and “usurpers,” illegal residents who stole their land and hence valid military targets. The supporters of Israel keep insisting that Hamas and the rest of the Palestinians want to kill all of the Jews in Israel or in the world, but that’s not so. In fact, they never make statements like that.
Sure, they support killing Israeli civilians, but they always have, so this is nothing new. But they never say, “We are going to kill all of them.”
All you see over and over even on ultra-radical fora like the above is
All you Jews need to take off, to leave, to get out of here and out of our lands. Our lands are for us and only us.
As Mohammad Deif, the vicious leader of Hamas’ military wing, said in his recently statement on the day of the attack,
You are not entitled to a single inch of our land.
Actually that’s not true because one of the most radical Palestinian documents of all, the Original Charter of the PLO (or the Thawabet) from 1964 when the group was formed, openly states that if you can trace your ancestry back to the native Palestinian Jews before the Balfour Document in 1917, you can stay as long as you are going to be peaceful.
Bottom line is all Jews who can prove that they are native Palestinian Jews or at least arrived before 1917 get to stay. Palestinian ultra-radicals like the people who run that page keep referring to the “Thawabet” above saying they must not detour from it.
Actually the official position of the PFLP or at least the old-timers was that all of the Jews in Israel get to stay but they have to live with the Palestinians in a single state. I know George Habash, their founder, once famously said that when he went back to Jaffa, the city he was driven from in the Nakba, he would build a house there, and he would build another floor on the top and let a Jewish family live there. Incredible, is it not?
Leila Khaled, the famous airline hijacker terrorist girl, has also stated that all the Jews can stay. But she’s also exhorted Palestinians to “shoot an Israeli!” As in, any Israeli Jew.
Nevertheless many of the PFLP people at the base level don’t seem to accept this. I was in a group with PFLP people on the Net a long time ago. They let me in and called me Comrade Bob, which was a nice touch. I believe we were all ideally supposed to use noms de guerre.
The leader of them lived in Jordan and was actually a member of the PFLP’s political branch. The second in command guy with the nom de guerre of Nabil Harb, a famous PFLP terrorist, was a guy about my age who lived in the US but traveled to the Middle East a lot. I think he was also a member of the PFLP’s political branch too.
Both of them were extremely radical and kept saying that all the Jews had to leave. Along the same lines the people running the Telegram channel above keep saying all the Jews need to leave. The Jordanian said,
They can all go back to Hymietown or wherever.
Both of the men above were quite antisemitic in addition to being anti-Zionist, which was a bit odd as they were communists. But to tell the truth, the vast majority of the Palestinians are antisemites, not just anti-Zionists. And I’m quite sure that most Israeli Jews hate Arabs. Why not hate people who are trying to kill or oppress you? Makes sense to me.
I think that all of these armed groups would much prefer that the Jews just up and leave not kill them if only to spare them the trouble and bother of having to kill them.
Hamas refuses to negotiate. Hamas doesn’t want peace. Hamas just wants war, killing, and destruction.
Hamas accepted a 2 state solution with the right to return in 2012.
Hamas rejects all negotiations. Hamas refuses to negotiate about the hostages.
Well, supporters of Israel are just lying again as usual. Hamas has been negotiating with Israel, perhaps through the intervention of Egypt, for a very long time now, decades. In fact, Hamas negotiated a long term cease fire with Israel which they called a Hudna.
The Jews never tired of pointing out that it was a temporary cease-fire but Hamas pointed out that according to their religion, they don’t have a right to relinquish their land like that. However, the implication was that a “temporary” cease fire could last a very long time.
But then this was back when Israel was treating Gaza very much better than they do now. See? If you treat people fairly well, they don’t fight you. If you treat them like garbage and attack them like you want to harm or kill them, they will hate you and want to fight you. How is this so hard to understand?
Hamas has been saying since a couple of days into the war that they wanted to negotiate about the hostages. Bottom line is they wanted to trade them for Palestinians imprisoned in Israel. One of their proposals was to trade all women and children hostages for some 20-30 Palestinian woman held in Israeli prisons. This was very reasonable but of course they Jews turned it down.
Hamas says it will release all US hostages if the US releases some Hamas supporters it has in US prisons. These people were Americans who were raising money for the Holy Land Foundation, which the US claims is a Hamas front. Even if it were what’s it to the US? Is Hamas fighting the US? No, it’s fighting Israel.
Well is Israel part of the US? I guess it is because that is exactly how the US frames the issue. If Israel is part of the US, then the “antisemites” are correct because that’s what they’ve been saying forever. And when truth is an excuse for antisemitism, all I have to say is that the Jews have screwed up bad. Obviously they’re acting horribly because when truth is an excuse for attacking your group, it always means you’re acting awful.
What’s it to the US if Americans are raising money for Hamas? What’s it to the US if Americans are raising money for any armed group overseas that is not attacking the US? This is madness. For God’s sake, just release these guys. Extradite them to Israel if you must.
The Hamas Charter is genocidal and implies it wants to kill every Jew on Earth.
The problem passage is a direct quote from the Quran, so take it up with Mohammad. Hamas revised its charter in 2019, and that got rid of all of the nasty antisemitism in the old one. Yet the supporters of Israel endlessly refer to the old one. I recently saw a Jew say, “Sure, they amended their charter, but they didn’t mean it.” There’s no way to deal with an argument like that.
In recent interviews, Hamas leaders emphasized that they could care less about Jews or the Jewish religion per se. This is a radical turn-around for the group. They just don’t like those Jews in Israel who they say stole their land. Which is exactly what they did, of course. Well, most of it. In 1947, 6
Jews owned 6
Recently Yahya Sinwar, the leader of Hamas’ political faction, even addressed Diaspora Jews in a speech, which was incredible. And Sinwar is quite a vicious man. He used to be head of the Gaza Police in the strip and under his watch, a lot of suspected Israeli collaborators were executed.
Hamas are extremist and are incapable of moderation.
Except that they’ve moderated dramatically only during this recent 8 day war! Now if that doesn’t show flexibility and willingness to moderate, I don’t know what does.
And after the bad publicity of the massacres, Mohammad Deif (a nom de guerre meaning “The Guest” because he sleeps in a different place every night like Saddam used to) himself issued a directive forbidding the killing of women, children, or old people and ordered that hostages be taken care of and POW’s treated treated decently. Deif is one of the most bloodthirsty Hamas leaders of them all, so that’s pretty significant. But it shows Hamas can modify its policy quickly and on the fly.
Four hostages were outrageously murdered before they were taken back to Gaza, but all of the hostages taken back to Gaza are apparently being treated quite well. Hamas was rough with some of the POW’s when they were taking them prisoner. There is a well-known video of a woman being taken from the rear of her captors’ vehicle and being put in the back seat. They’re being pretty rough with her. I’m almost certain she’s a solider. I saw a video of a fighter stepping on a soldier’s neck. As another was being led away, his captor screamed,
“You killed our people in Al Quds, you bastard.”
I saw some videos of POW’s being transported back to Gaza, and for whatever reason, they all looked absolutely terrified. We don’t have any direct evidence about POW’s, but all indications are that they were being treated with decency. The Jews* have already killed 26 captives with their bombings. All 26 are Jews. 10 of them are soldiers. We don’t know who the other nine are, soldiers or civilians.
There’s no way the Jews* are going to rescue those any of those captives. Any time they get close to capturing any of them, Hamas is just going to execute them. I actually support this. The only reason to hold hostages is for leverage. I don’t approve of killing them if demands are not met, but if the hostages are about to be rescued, I see no reason why the captors shouldn’t just execute them.
A couple of recent statements from Hamas leadership about their goals are some of the most moderate I’ve ever seen. Although they were very carefully worded, I noticed that they only discussed “a Palestinian state with its capital in Jerusalem and right of return for refugees.”
This is an old position of theirs from 2012 that no one discusses because we are too busy portraying them as demons. In 2012, they said that they would temporarily accept a 2 state solution of a Palestinian state with its capital in Jerusalem and a right of return for refugees. I’m not sure if this right of return applies to Israel or to the Occupied Territories, but some say that the refugees can’t even go back to the West Bank or Gaza.
This earlier position was so little-known that I never saw it discussed until a comrade, a Jewish antizionist, told me about it. He’s a Bundist. They have an interesting solution for the conflict, basically self-rule for both Jews and non-Jews in a single state. What’s fascinating is that since this war started, I have seen this almost unknown policy dragged out not once but twice by the official Hamas leadership.
Believe it or not, they’re moderating all the time. In fact, this is the most humane war the Palestinians or Hamas have ever fought against those Jews. The whole Palestinian nationalist project has been sheer terrorism from Day One dating back to the Hebron Massacre. This is the only time they’ve even bothered to take POW’s or captives instead of just mowing both of them down.
*The Jews in this context refers only to the Jewish Israelis, not to Jews in general in the Diaspora, though sometimes I may refer to the collective when I refer to who makes various arguments. However, when I refer to actions being taken in the region, I refer to Israeli Jews only. Diaspora Jews haven’t lifted a finger to direct harm Palestinians! Leave them out of it for God’s sake!