Delphi Murders Update November 13, 2022: The Arrest of Richard Allen Raises More Questions Than Answers

Warning, long, 45 pages.

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Note: This post has been substantially updated with the new information that the police think that Richard Allen is the man on  the bridge who killed Abby Williams and Libby German.

Let’s cut straight to the chase here. Normally I start off taking down whatever lies have been told about me since the last time I posted. These are interesting to read through even if you’re not interested in the subject because there is a tremendous amount of information about the crime and everything surrounding it, so it can be educational in that sense. But in this case, those will follow the main text.

The Big Break in the Case: Richard Allen, Arrested for the Delphi Murders, Raises More Questions Than Answers

Well, the Big Whopper happened. There was an arrest in the  Delphi Murders case, and yes, the man was arrested for Murder.

In our group, there are a few people who do a lot of the posting. I think most others just lurk. The group has been very busy lately since the arrest. We operate on a peer review principle that holds that everyone’s comments and opinions are up for grabs, and anyone can either agree with them or take them down. I think we are very nice about disagreeing with each other, but we do disagree in there a lot. After some time though we arrive at a consensus.

Originally, the consensus of the regular posters on our group, including me, was that Richard Allen is not the Delphi Killer. He was not Bridge Guy or BG, the man on the bridge. And he absolutely did not murder, help murder, or plan the murders of Abby Williams and Libby German. Neither his phone nor his vehicle can be placed in the area during the time of the crime.

However, recently our views have changed now that police have come out and said he is the Delphi Killer and this is no longer consensus. There are still some who think he is innocent, and there are indeed some who are convinced that he is indeed the killer. Consensus now is confusion with most uncertain of Allen’s role in this crime which seems to bring more questions than answers.

Some think he was at the bridge and played a role, which seems dubious given the Felony Murder charge being the only one leveled, others think he played some more peripheral role by committing some other crime and got caught up in the murders inadvertently. This is frankly still my position. Probably the main position is complete confusion as we do not understand Allen’s role in this crime at all and so many things do not seem to add up or make sense. So our consensus now would be that we are confused about this latest development and don’t know what to make of it.

First of all, I will go through the reasons some of us have a very hard time believing that this is him on the bridge. This article was originally written on the basis that Allen was innocent, but after police said he was the Bridge Man who murdered the girls, most group members have changed their minds.

Allen is 5’4 and BG is 5’8-5’9. This has been questioned, and the argument is that his height is really 5’7, but my information from his driver’s license and court records on the Internet is that his height is 5’4 on those records. An argument has also been made that the FBI had a large range for BG’s height, but that is not so. It was always 5’8-5’9. No, the FBI did not mess up their analysis. I’ve also seen very well-done re-enactments with precise measurement tools and video that also pegged BG at 5’8-5’9.

We were told very early on that whatever eye color BG had, he did not have blue eyes. The police were very confident about this fact provided by an eyewitness. The problem here is that Allen has eyes that are very blue. The square pegs in round holes solution to this is to say that the witness got the eye color wrong. Using Occam’s Razor, which is one of the tools that we use in our sleuthing group, the simplest explanation of these facts is that Allen is not BG, as he most definitely has blue eyes.

While Allen does not seem to have been a regular to the bridge area, there is evidence that he was there at least once. About a year after the murders, he accompanied his 28 year old daughter to the bridge. She walked out on it a few steps and sat down, and it was there that he took her picture. Beyond that though, we have no evidence that he ever walked the length of the bridge as BG must have, not to mention with the confident stride of BG, who walked that bridge as if he had done it many times.

The killer knew the lay of the land very well. At the very least he had spent a lot of time around that area. He was very familiar with the bridge and also with the private property in the area, in particular Ron Logan’s land. There is no evidence that Allen was intimately familiar with this area or that he was very familiar with Ron Logan’s land or had even ever set foot on it.

I had assumed that Allen is not an outdoorsman, but that may be incorrect. At any rate, does he own a camouflage cap like BG’s? I’ll tell you who does. Mr. X! Indeed, at the 2019 press conference, remember where the police acted so weird and flustered and then suggested that the killer may have been in the room? Of course the denier crowd has no explanation for that.

Using Occam’s and judging from the behavior of the police, the only possible conclusion is that the main suspect was in the audience, and they were surprised by this, and this is why the police acted so flustered and upset. From the police, we know that Mr. X was the main suspect from soon after the murders until at least a four months ago.

And as a matter of fact, Mr. X was indeed in the audience.

But what is more interesting than that is that, perhaps to taunt the police, the photograph of Mr. X wore the exact same camouflage cap that BG is wearing on the bridge to the press conference that day! That’s awfully brazen of him. He’s either the killer or he’s not, but he must have known he was the main suspect. In either case, he was taunting the police.

There are rumors that Allen is a hunter. If so, is he a deer hunter?  Is he an avid, nearly fanatical deer hunter like Mr. X? We don’t know this. Notice that BG has a deer kit around his waist. This along with the camouflage cap fits with the main suspect being an avid, nearly obsessive deer hunter.

BG is very strong. The heavier girl was dragged for quite some distance. Further, the terrain around the crime scene is very rugged, full of downed wood everywhere, and quite steep. One of our members went there and said you had to go straight up and then straight down three different 15-foot tall ravines.

They also said it was dangerous, at least in November with a foot of leaves on the ground. Some members of her party fell down while traversing the land. In Anthony Greeno’s re-enactment of the crime, when he gets to the crime scene, we can see that it is quite rugged and steep. Richard Allen does not appear to be a very strong man.

Richard Allen is not a man of action. Men are doers or watchers. Allen, along with Kegan Kline, is a watcher, basically a passive man. BG looks like he’s in pretty damn good shape. Allen looks flabby and out of it. I can’t see him hightailing across that bridge or even going near it.

BG was confident, extroverted, action-oriented, and downright brazen. This is one of the most brazen crimes that I am aware of. To use a cliche, BG had balls of steel. Does Allen look brazen? Does he look like he has balls of steel? More like balls of jello to me. I hate to insult people, but he seems more the cowardly type than anything.

Just looking at Richard Allen and observing him and his behavior (including his writing as we analyzed that too), some of us do not believe that Richard Allen has it in him to commit a horrendous crime like this. He would not be able to do it. He wouldn’t even be able to plan it.

Richard Allen has probably committed a serious crime. On the other hand, he may not have hurt anyone when he did it. People who know him heading all the way back to high school say that Richard Allen is basically a real nice guy. “The nicest guy you’ve ever met.” This is commonly said about passive, watcher type men. They’re introverted and a bit shy and self-effacing. They don’t put on airs. They’re not arrogant. They’re humble.

I have been studying sex murderers for decades now, and in this case, we may have an actual serial killer, as the Evansdale and Delphi Murders may be connected. I’ve studied their personalities in depth. I’ve studied psychology and psychiatry for 40 years. And I work as a peer counselor for people with mental disorders in addition to more “coaching” type of counseling. In the course of doing this work, I have come to “read” people pretty well. Clients sometimes say, “It seems like you are crawling around in my head reading my thoughts.”

Anyway, I think I’m a pretty good judge of character and personality, even based on little information. And while it is true that depraved sex murderers and serial killers of women and girls come in a lot of different types, they are almost always psychopaths.

Which brings up the question, “Is Richard Allen a psychopath? And one thing I’ve never heard anyone say about a  brutal sex murderer of multiple females is that he was a nice guy, much less the nicest guy you ever met. In fact, “nice guy” and “nicest guy you’ve ever met” pretty much rules out depraved sadistic sex murderer of multiple females.

These men, whatever else is wrong with them, are coldblooded. Narcissism is often prominent. They are often described as aggressive, mean, violent, ill-tempered, or even “evil.”

In some cases, they have split personalities, and the monster personality only comes out some of the time. But when it does, it looks like a totally different person. And the rest of the time, while they may be normal, they’re definitely not “nice.” You simply cannot be a “nice person” and commit crimes like this. It takes a certain coldheartedness.

Based on his personality alone, some of us doubt that Richard Allen could be the Delphi Killer.

About the section below, the group is still arguing about Indiana’s Felony Murder law (Murder 2) and what exactly it involves. As yet there is no consensus in the group about what this law means and asserts and how it relates to Allen’s case.

Now we get to perhaps the most important meat of this argument. Yes, Allen has been arrested for “murder,” but most people stop reading right there. If you read the Indiana statute for Murder 2, this is the state’s Felony Murder law. Felony Murder is defined below.

Felony murder is only applied when someone died in the commission of a felony. The person charged under the statute did not deliberately kill, attempt to, or plot to kill the person who died as a (possibly partial) result of the other crime committed.

In other words, based on this Felony Murder charge, Richard Allen absolutely did not kill intentionally kill Abby Williams and Libby German. Further, he did not help anyone else do so. Going even further, he was not even part of a plot to kill those girls.

The police think they can prove whatever charges they have on this guy. But if he deliberately killed the girls, was an accomplice to the killer, or was a part of a plot to kill them, he would absolutely be charged with Murder 1.

People are making arguments that Felony Murder just means that someone was killed in the commission of another felony. So in this case, it was a murder committed during the commission of kidnapping, another felony. The problem here is that if they can prove kidnapping, they can prove murder. Clearly the man on the bridge killed those girls. If they think he committed both kidnapping and murder, then he would be charged with both Kidnapping and Murder 1 and probably a number of other crimes too.

So what felony did Allen commit? Perhaps he helped get rid of evidence of the murders. However, if he had done that, police would have charged him with Accessory to Murder. That’s a completely different crime than Felony Murder and implies a deeper involvement. Basically you helped the killer get away with the crime by hiding him or getting rid of evidence after the case.

Some of us believe that Allen is peripherally connected to this crime. He’s simply the lowest branch. BG is up there in the crown of the tree. We think there are a number of people who are involved in this case, peripherally and otherwise. So far we have been told that the main police theory that was that there were two killers and five people who were peripherally involved who had nothing to do with those murders. Now they seem to have thrown all of that out. Paul Holes remarked that this case extremely complex, so complex he feared it would never be solved.

The question here though is what felony exactly did Richard Allen commit. Thinking back above to what sort of a person we know he is, violence seems to be ruled out. Psychologically, he’s more like Kegan Kline, passive. Kegan is up on child porn charges and charges of getting pornographic material from young teenage girls. In other words, he’s basically a creepy pervert. A lot of CP collectors are creepy perverts at least in terms of their interests. Not that you could spot them at the grocery store!

But if he’s a KK type in terms of interests, then it follows that he may be going down on a similar felony to Kegan’s: CP or possibly procuring pornographic materials from young teenage girls.

Also, we know that the break in the case that resulted in Allen’s arrest came as a result of interrogations of Kegan Kline. Allen is reportedly Friend #1 of Friends 1 and 2 who were also using the anthony_shots profile. So he’s somehow tied in with the anthony_shots profile. But he can’t be a part of the actual murder  plot because then he’s going down on Murder 1. What is his actual criminal connection (if any) to anthony_shots profile? We have no idea!

What is Kline’s actual connection to do with the crime itself? Sure, he was using anthony_shots to get pornographic material from young teenage girls. But what does that have to do with the case, even if Libby may have given some her material to him, which seems to be a possibility? We don’t know. Did either Kegan or Allen use the anthony_shots profile to lure the girls to the scene? He can’t have because that makes him part of the murder plot, and he’s going down on Murder 1.

Let’s go to rumors about Kline’s involvement. First there is the nonsense and self-aggrandizing puffery from Murder Shits (Murder Sheets) podcasters, most if not all of which is probably not even true. Remember that their entire claim to fame and eternal greatness was their theory that Tony and Kegan Kline murdered those girls (despite Kegan not driving a car and either one of them being too fat to walk on that bridge).

That’s obviously not true at all, particularly now with the arrest of Allen. MS probably doesn’t even have any good LE sources at all. Why else print a bunch of BS? Good LE sources don’t tell you BS. Murder charges will not be filed against Kegan, and Tony was never even a serious suspect except in delirious people’s fevered imaginations.

What about other rumors? Our sources are better than theirs.  From them we have only heard that Kegan is connected somehow to the murder tape that was shot of the murders. We know this tape exists, but we don’t know that it was marketed on the Internet. That’s just a rumor.

The rumors say that Kegan was handling the murder tape, and his trip to Vegas soon after the murders to talk to his main source for the really bad CP of little girls was to deliver this tape. Kegan is said to have put it on CD to make it harder to copy, as then there is only one hard copy.

The tape may well have been put on the Internet, and that may be what the investigators’ trip to Paris to look at the Yello servers over there was all about. Yello is a livestreaming service. This would imply that the tape was livestreamed somehow at some point, perhaps after the fact.

Perhaps Allen obtained the tape. One of our top investigators who has worked on this case for four years, including many visits to Delphi itself, told us that Allen and Mr. X are said to be very close. If this is the case, then perhaps he got it from Mr. X. If he got it after the murders were committed, even if he knew Mr. X did it, that doesn’t make him part of a murder plot because it’s after the fact. He’s not an accessory either as he’s not helping to cover up a murder.

However, as the murder tape was the product of a double murder, the trafficking in it after the fact if the intention of the murders in part was the make a video of the crime to make money off of it could be seen as Felony Murder, as production of the tape was presumably one reason the girls were killed.

Perhaps Kegan was threatened with such a charge too if he also handled the tape, and this is why he made a deal with the cops to rat out Allen and save his ass. Kegan is cowardly, and cowardly people will often give up anyone to save themselves. It takes a strong man to refuse to rat people and take one for the team when you could save your ass any time just be fingering another person. People don’t realize that.

So, Allen obtained the tape directly from Mr. X, the proximity to the killer perhaps being the reason for the Felony Murder charge, as people further away from the killer are going to be harder to charge with this. He put it on some computer media that is not all that secure, say a USB drive. He gave it to Kegan who transferred it to the CD for better security.

Bottom line is some of us think Allen played a peripheral role. His role may have been in trafficking in the murder tape of the crime recorded by the killer. Perhaps he dealt directly with the killer to obtain the tape, hence the severity of the charges and the reason for Felony Murder as opposed to something else.


At Beyond Highbrow, some of us are concerned that the police may be trying to frame Allen for the murders of these girls. However, the case has been so poisoned that everyone and their uncle thinks, or excuse me knows, that he’s guilty as Hell. The media all knows he did it. Any jury will obviously know that he did it. Of course he can’t get a fair trial in Indiana. It’s doubtful he could get one in the US. He’s being saddled with a Public Defender instead of a good criminal defense attorney. This does not bode well.

We do not think police are above framing people. In the Kline interrogations, police said at different times that they knew that Kegan and then his father committed killed those girls. They knew that that was not the case. So why tell innocent men that they know they committed horrible murders? Maybe to frame them?

There is a rumor that police all but waterboarded Garrett Kirts to try to get him to confess to the crime. I can assure you that at that time, they probably knew that he was innocent. In fact, Mr. X was  the main suspect at that time. So this looks like an attempt to frame Kirts for the murders.

One More Problem: Mr. X

First Leigh Kerr and then our main police source said that Mr. X was the main suspect in this case. They both said he had been the main suspect for since not long after the murders. The last we heard from our source was that he was still the main suspect, and he had been the main suspect for five years now. Suddenly Richard Allen is arrested. We know he has not been arrested for the murders because he’s obviously innocent of that crime.

Further, the evidence that Mr. X committed this crime is substantial though not confirmatory enough to file a charge against him. On the contrary, the evidence that Allen killed those girls is frankly absolutely zero. The sum total of the evidence that Allen is the killer is the fact that “murder” charges were filed against him. However, the specific murder charge is only filed where the person involved did not, was not an accomplice to and was not part of a plot to kill the victim(s). So the argument that Allen committed the crime is already on thin ice and seems fatal right out the starting gate.

What we acknowledge as fact is that Mr. X was the main suspect for five years up until at least four months ago. However, it is possible that Mr. X has been dumped as a suspect, all of the evidence against him trash binned, and it has turned out that this new guy, who seems to have literally fallen out of the sky, is the killer. Is it possible? Sure, anything’s possible. But if that were true they would have filed Murder 1 on him.

Are they waiting for more evidence to file Murder 1 on this guy? Well, maybe.

Can someone give us one reason why we should believe this guy is the killer when the sum total of evidence against him is a 330 Short Bus riders chanting, “Hurr durr they arrested him for murder duhh.”? “Some guy got arrested for murder (when the murder charge rules out that he had anything to do with the murder) is not evidence of anything whatsoever! It’s evidence that cops arrested some dude for some crime. Cops arrest the wrong people all the time. Cops frame people all the time. DA’s knowingly convict innocent people and withhold evidence that they are innocent all the time.

Can someone please come up with the tiniest bit of evidence in favor the theory that Allen killed these girls? How about maybe…one thing?

How about some more things? Motive? Of course there’s no motive. This totally passive and rather harmless man woke up one morning and decided to commit when of the most brilliantly planned and executed, complex, bizarre, and brazen double homicides of the 20th Century. Why? Because I guess he just felt like it and he’s eeeeevil, despite the fact that we have no history of this evil in his entire life history prior to this event.

We know from the police that the killer had an accomplice, a much younger man. Or this is what they told us four months ago. And it appears that they had someone in mind. Ok, what happened to this guy, who I assume they had some evidence against? Binned, just like Mr. X? Ok, we now have to excellent suspects with evidence piled up over five years binned in favor of the man who fell from the sky. Well, it’s possible I guess.

But what about the bizarre crime scene described to us by police, two search party ladies interviewed independently, and crime scene photos? And the police told us that three young men had set up that scene to scare a pregnant girl into an abortion. We have the names of two of them. At the moment, police have no evidence of involvement in the murder plot, although they are suspects nevertheless. So who set up this wacko crime scene and why? The other theory at least has explanatory adequacy. It explains why a scary scene like this was set up beforehand and how all this crazy stuff got to the scene without being carried there by BG.

How does the Allen theory account for all this weird stuff at the crime scene? I guess he set it up himself? He went to Logan’s property and trespassed to place this considerable list of items around, presumably before the crime? Has he ever been on Logan’s land even one time, trespassing or with permission? And why all the creepy props? I guess he scattered those about because he’s eeeeevil.

Separate police sources have told us that one of the girl victims was pregnant. Our best police source added that she was impregnated by an adult man who was pressuring her to get an abortion. She was balking, and this mess had something to do with the homicide, including a rumored disembowelment, evacuation of abdominal contents, and removal of the uterus to hide the pregnancy.

Ok so how does the pregnant girl figure into Mr. X? Not at all. And if the disembowelment and removal of the uterus rumor is true, why on Earth would Allen, the “nicest guy you met,” do such a thing? Did he know she was pregnant? How would he and why would he care? Why on Earth would he remove her uterus for God’s sake?

The charge is that we are “sticking to our guns” because we do not want to be proven wrong. First of all, we were not wrong on the  case of the Delphi Murders! For at least the last year and half, we have never stated that any particular person was the Delphi Killer even one single time.

All we have been saying during that period was what Leigh Kerr and our police sources told us, that Mr. X was the main suspect in the Delphi Murders. And we are sticking to our guns on that. We believe that Mr. X was the main suspect in the Delphi Murders for five years until at least four months ago. We don’t think this is true. We know that this is true. However, we have no information on whether he was the main suspect after four months ago because we lost our best police source. So since four months ago, we have no idea what is going on.

What appears to have happened is that at some time in the last four months, police dropped Mr. X, his suspected accomplice, and three men in a peripheral role from the crime altogether. They also dumped the main motive for the crime (the crime now has no motive) and theories about how the bizarre crime scene was set up. Now, there is no explanation for that.

We no longer have an explanation for how the suspect had a deep and intimate familiarity with the bridge itself and Ron Logan’s private property. This is now unexplained.

The unknown car at the CPS building from 12-5, which police think was the killers car and the period it was parked there for, is now completely unexplained or irrelevant. The square pegs in round holes brigade now says that the car was never part of the case in the first place. That seems odd as they were focused on it for so long.

The fact that Mr. X’s cellphone pinged the CPS building from 12-5 PM on 2/13 is now unexplained. Mr. X threw his cellphone into a car at the crime scene and then went to another town where he was seen in a bank by Nate Miller, except the camera at the bank never recorded him? Mr. X states that he has no explanation for why his cellphone pinged that building during that period. Why did Mr. X apparently lie about his alibi? He apparently wasn’t in that town at all. Why did Nate Miller provide a fake alibi for Mr. X? Why did Mr. X need one in the first place?

There remains no explanation for why Mr. X was searching for the girls at 6:30 PM on 2/13, one half hour before the search was announced. How did he figure that out? Does he have precognition?

Why did he make up a lie about losing his keys when it never happened? What was the point of lying about something like that?

Why on Earth did he park his truck directly above the girls’ bodies to search for them when everyone else was searching in the opposite direction? Why did he leave his truck directly above the girls for 18 hours?

How did he mysteriously find the girls? By sheer luck? Why did he contaminate the scene by touching both bodies if indeed he did?

Why did he need counseling for months after the murders? Even the families didn’t seek that out.

At the same time that the police dropped Mr. X and entourage, the motive, and all of the other evidence implicating these folks, they chose a new main suspect, Richard Allen. This is what appears to have happened. We’re not disputing that.

We don’t know who killed those girls. We don’t have the faintest idea who did it. But some of us think that Mr. X is a much better suspect than Allen.

Police are saying he’s the man on the bridge. Then why are they filing a charge against him that says he played no role in the murders? I guess they really must want this case solved.

Show me the man and I’ll show you the crime.

– Lavrentin Beria, Stalin’s right-hand man.

In a criminal case against me, the DA knew that I was innocent of the crime but he pressed charges anyway because he could not admit he did not understand the statute and he wanted to keep his batting average up. I ended up  paying $1,500 for a lawyer so I could pay a $10 fine.

But based on the new police belief, what is the likelihood that Mr. X,  an accomplice, and three peripherally involved people were the main suspects for the murders and other events for years along with a highly elaborate theory explaining motive and other aspects in the murders, and then suddenly the police binned all five men and all of the accumulated evidence against them and replaced them with a new suspect, the previous unknown named Richard Allen, who seems to have literally fallen from the sky like some lost forlorn meteorite searching for a home it never had?

Sure, it’s possible. Anything’s possible. Main suspects get replaced all the time, even after being suspected for years. It’s not unheard of. But what’s the likelihood that this occurred?

Loss of Our Main Police Source

This source has been slowly leaking bits and pieces of information to us for 1 1/2 years. I am certain that there is much that they are withholding from us. The detective in question is leaking to a co-worker of one of our members, a retired homicide detective. Our member gets the information from her co-worker and then gives it to me. So for those who care, yes, our information is 3rd hand. So what? The thing that we never revealed is the relationship between the co-worker and our source the detective.

In fact, she is his daughter. So for this woman to be lying to us and giving us bad data, she would have to be leaking to her very own father. To our critics who say we are being given bad information (Looking at you Delphi_Nut, I mean Delphi_Not, I mean Delphi_Dog Knot, I mean Delphi_Nit, I mean Delphi_Knot), they need to think about this. This working detective is making up fake stories and telling them directly to her very own father, who was also a detective just like she is. Really?

Unfortunately, the co-worker moved on to another job, and the detective source does not deal directly with our member. She was only comfortable leaking to her Dad. So we’re SOL now, without a good police source anymore. Before her, we got leaks from maybe four police officers, but in each case, it was just one statement, and then they went away.

Bottom line is we are now without any good police sources. Those sources are what made us the best Delphi group of all. We are trying very hard to get new sources, but as you might guess, it’s not so easy.

The problem here is that our last info drop from the source was cryptic as usual, but it was also very brief, with her saying that is all she can and will tell us. She had been clamming up lately, as she told us she was afraid of getting caught leaking.

Richard Allen was arrested after we lost our source. Hence we cannot bounce any of this Allen break off of her to get her take on it, and I’m sure she would have given us something. So this is one reason why we are as clueless as anyone else about Richard Allen. Pretty much the blind leading the blind here I’m afraid.

Other Material

We do have some more ideas on the murder itself that are not covered below or in the Richard Allen section above. I think it is best to leave those for another post. We are still trying to work out what exactly happened in these murders because let’s face it, neither we nor anyone but the police know these things!

Debunking Rumors and Lies and Expansion of Previously Discussed Issues

First of all, as usual, let’s go through the usual process of correcting all of the lies that have been spread about me lately.

He’s a smart guy but he’s got a screw loose and he apparently can’t admit when he’s wrong.

That’s not true at all. All I do my whole life is admit I’m wrong. It’s kind of a habit. And on this case, we have admitted that we were wrong so many times I can’t even count them. Of the things we said in our earlier posts based almost exclusively on rumors, ~8

Lindsay said all info came from “multiple sources” but non-confirmed. Such as: that raping Abby was the motive.

Some of our material is confirmed by police and interviews with search party ladies. We regard that as confirmed information. The motive for the murders was not to rape Abby Williams. In fact, neither girl was raped in the typical sense of the word.

Also for someone who admits to being immersed in rumors, Lindsay sure doesn’t do a whole lot by way of fact checking or attempting to. He literally couldn’t tell us whether his LE source was local or state based.

This is from tobor_rn. By the way, he can’t spell. A great sleuth who has collapsed and is now disastrous.

Fact checking is all we do here. And group members are encouraged to fact check each every member and particularly me. Can someone tell me why I should help this clown uncover one of our best police sources who could possibly get in a ton of trouble for leaking to us? And by the way, I do know the answer to that question of what job our source had.

And he also said “we were wrong about XYZ but NOW trust us.”

Right. We change our minds all the time on here about everything. You know, like REAL detectives do? Also we had much better sources lately, including people in law enforcement itself, so our theories got a lot better.

By the way, do any of you publish in academic journals? I do. I publish in peer reviewed academic journals. And trust me, this is how science works. Science is wrong all the time. People throw out hypotheses or even conclusions, they get torn up, and its back to the drawing board. Science is always getting things wrong and it’s always self-correcting.

He talks about Libby being badly beaten almost beyond recognition.

This was an early rumor that we no longer believe was true. Dated from very early on, as in the very first days after the bodies were found.

Ha ha I like how he says to stop calling the killer a paedophile.

Correct. Just because a killer murders two teenage girls in a sex murder, that does not indicate that he is a pedophile. Many sex killers kill teenage girls, and almost none of them are pedophiles. Pedophilic killers kill little children, not teenagers. Teenage girls look like grown women, not little children. So men who are attracted to grown women are also attracted to teenage girls, albeit at a slightly lower level. However, all normal men are attracted to 15-17 year old girls at a pretty high level, 8

By the way, you might want to look up the definition of the word pedophile because 9

Because he cleaned it with bowl cleaner which was found on Liberty.

The empty toilet bowl cleaner was supposedly found on the forest floor. Furthermore, you can clearly see a bottle of toilet bowl cleaner on BG in his left jeans pocket. We have no information that it was found on Libby’s body and I doubt if it was. Also the information that an empty bottle of toilet bowl cleaner at the scene came directly from the police.

Leigh Kerr got the idea of his main suspect from Lindsay.

Other way around. I read LK’s description of his main suspect and was convinced that he was correct. Then we went to work on a deep dive into Mr. X in which involved a former police detective making phone calls all over the country to retired and serving LE to see what we could find on him. It was via this retired officer’s work that we obtained our main police sources who have been leaking to us ever since, one female detective in particular.

Becky Patty has confirmed that the keys were never lost. Have you heard of Urban Myths? Well this is a Rural Myth about the lost keys. Some LE vehicles did have to move so that PB could get his truck outta there. All of this happened on the 14th. I don’t believe PB was parked in that cemetery spot on the 13th, just the 14th. But there are people who swear it was both days. (which doesn’t make sense IMO).

PB didn’t loose his keys. When they were contacted about moving the truck, the response was ” we will come over and move it, just let me find the keys.”

There is a police transcript talking about Mr. X’s wife coming to the crime scene to bring him his car keys because he lost them. So there was definitely a story about lost keys. Ron Logan said he found Mr. X on his land at 6:30 PM on the 13th. We believe that Mr. X was parked at that time in the same spot where his truck was seen on the 14th. Furthermore, Ron described it as, “I found Mr. X creeping around my land,” as in, he didn’t even ask permission to be on the land. In the comment above this one, Cheeky Yank is doing some good sleuthing. He’s one of the only decent sleuths left on that board, but even he’s probably lost it lately.

I can’t say Tina’s daughter Meaghan wasn’t raped when its likely she was, hanging with five men who are all criminals.

Tina’s daughter was not raped in a legal sense. She agreed to be there and to have sex with all those men at that time.

Also those who are crying ‘aha, gotcha!’ With his spelling mistake about the autopsy are being a bit disingenuous or are reaching. He’s probably looked at the report and recognized a word he’s seen a hundred times and assumed the unique spelling on the report was an error and he’s mistakenly tried to correct it, or it’s autocorrect.

Yes. The wording on the autopsy report that I wrote about was given to me by a 3rd party. This 3rd party simply gave me a few paragraphs describing what was on the report. I simply copied the wording verbatim from this person’s information. I don’t know medical terminology so I had no idea that those words were misspelled.

I didn’t read it as he was accusing LM of the crime. in his theory, LM was part of the prank plot gone wrong.

This person is named Logan Maxwell. No, I am not accusing him of this crime and he is not involved. Also LM was not involved in a secondary plot by three young men to terrorize a girl into getting an abortion. Those men were Mr. P, Mr. J, and Mr. B.

Is Logan Maxwell the Mr M in his blog? The 20 year old kid.

No, Mr. M is a man who was 20 years old at the time. He is related to Nate Miller, the officer who supposedly killed himself in December 2020. He impregnated one of the girl victims several weeks before the murders, possibly at a bonfire party. He and his friends were pressuring her to get an abortion. She was refusing to do so. This is the prominent backstory and possible motive for the murders. We get into trouble for suggesting that this girl was not virginal and especially that she had sex with an adult man.

About the first charge, you are wrong, and it’s normal behavior for a teenage girl to have sex with boys and even men anyway. About the latter, but I would urge naysayers to check out this girl victim’s social media accounts which were full of adult men on her friends list. All of those men were on that girl’s friends list because she added them. We don’t know how old those men were. But where there’s smoke, there’s fire.

This POS you’re referring to been kicked off so many sites I can’t count for plagiarism and harassment. My FB was PRIVATE.

It’s not my fault that the world is full of morons. I didn’t set it up that way. It’s true that people like to ban me from their sites. That’s their problem, not mine because I’m not doing anything wrong.

However, I have never been banned from any site due to plagiarism, nor have I been banned for harassment, nor do I engage in harassment. This female is a turbot with Borderline Personality Disorder claims I “stalked” her because I looked at her very public Facebook profile and mentioned a person in her photos section.

That sent her through the roof. This spiny dogfish even filed a complaint against me for “stalking” with the FBI. The FBI knows me so I doubt if they will investigate. Her Facebook was public or was at least public to her friends, and she may have added me. Anyway, it was fully accessible to me without any hacking, which I don’t know how to do anyway.

Omg in his one post he asked if there was a word or a crime for having sex with someone who was being sex trafficked.

Sadly, men have sex with women who are being trafficked all the time. They probably don’t even know what’s going on with the woman. The person at fault in sex trafficker is the pimp or trafficker themselves. The men who patronize the prostitutes are not at fault. I guess their crime is “having sex with a prostitute.” Is that even against the law? How many men ever go down on a crime like that? Link me to an article about a man arrested for this fake crime.

…and no legitimate or reputable LEO would give this hack any legitimate or reputable information…

They don’t have to give me any information. Our LE sources communicate with group members, not me. Some of my members obtained access to people in LE. These LE leak to my members. My members then communicate to me what the source said. I don’t talk to any cops, nor do I wish to.

It’s actually one of the many unpopular rumors produced by Robert Lindsay. Supposedly there was a sheet or something with R U UP painted on it, displayed somewhere at the scene. Lol, along with the Teddy bears and dolls.

We never said there was a sheet with R U UP written on it at the scene. We reported that a physicist’s interpretation of crime scene photos (which are indeed real photos from the crime scene) of the blown up helicopter photos. He thought it was possibly arranged in sticks or logs at the scene.

A sheet was indeed at the scene, but that refers to something else. Of course there were dolls at the scene. We have that from three different LE sources now including leak directly from someone inside the investigation itself who leaked it to one of our members!

The giant plush bear can be clearly seen on the blown up photos by the physicist. My graphics woman added some filters and whatnot to bring out the contrast better. The photo was not altered in any way.

I don’t know about the rest of you, but that sure looks like a gigantic bear to me. Other than that, the presence of that bear is still a rumor. However, one of the search party ladies we interviewed told us that “there was an object at the scene that was so large that BG could not have had it with him that day.” That could indeed refer to that giant bear, which actually looks like the Valentine’s Day bears they sell in the stores. Keep in mind that we obtained interviews with two separate search party ladies. We are the only Delphi sleuthing group that obtained interviews with search party members.

…and the thing about a K carved into trees or flesh.

No letters were carved into either girl’s flesh, thank God. There either is no K at the scene or there is and it’s not important. The latest rumor is that there were “runes” carved into a tree near the crime scene. Those are popular with White Supremacists. This may be one of the non-secular items found at the scene.

Robert Lindsay’s blog (don’t bother) referenced a knife and a giant teddy bear, a bottle of Clorox, and a bunch of other weird nonsense. This was based on a closeup photo of the crime scene taken from the news chopper on the afternoon of 2/14. The photo is in the right place but there was no dimensional scale, so objects are misinterpreted. Libby would have to be 20’ tall for that to be correct.

The giant bear was addressed above.

The toilet bowl cleaner being used to clean up the crime scene came to us from a police source.

The knife is clearly visible in our crime scene photo, which shows a knife in a girl victim’s hand which appears to be shoved into a tree next to her. Furthermore, that photo lines up perfectly with testimony from both search party ladies about a knife in a girl’s hand stuck into her shoulder or into a tree next to her. We think it’s in the tree. A bottle of toilet bowl cleaner at the scene was referenced by one of our police sources. The physicist said he saw it in his photos, but I never saw it.

We do not agree with the interpretation above about the scale of the photographs. Further, these “fake” photos line up perfectly with search party lady testimony.

he started the knife story and somehow the location changed 3 or 4 times to shoulder then stomach then…

We never said a knife was left embedded in a girl’s stomach, thank God. And we didn’t really change the location of the knife. In fact, we never referenced a knife left behind at the scene until our search party lady interviews mentioned one. At first we were not sure if the knife was in a girl’s shoulder or in a tree in back of her because the search party ladies were not sure. We now think it is stuck into a tree her head is resting on.

It was RL who put this out there and at some point also suggested there was something similar found near the Evansdale murders as well.

No, we heard about the knife in the girl’s hand from the search party ladies. Then we saw the crime scene photo that lined up with testimony perfectly. We still did not know if the knife was in a girl’s shoulder or in a tree until we heard that there is a rumor of a knife in a tree at the Evansdale crime scene too.

One of our police sources told us that the police believe the cases may be linked. After I heard that, I decided the knife was probably in the tree. And yes, that would connect the two cases. One of our police sources told us, “There were odd objects left at the crime scene in both cases,” and this is one reason they think the cases may be connected.

The conclusion was there was a knife stuck in a tree or log near the bodies and one of the girls’ hand had been manipulated to look like she had stuck it in the tree.

This is correct. The knife was placed in the girl’s hand postmortem and then shoved into the tree, making her appear to be stabbing a tree with the knife in her hand.

“Robert Lindsay” is actually two college friends whose “creation” has been successfully sued by a Delphi family for calling the POIs I know that Robert Lindsay (not a real person btw) was and guess what? Reported it.

I don’t comment on my identity, real or otherwise.

This is from Xanaxarita, another woman with Borderline Personality Disorder. She also has many benign uterine tumors which effect her behavior adversely. I, Robert Lindsay, have never been sued by anyone. In particular, I have never been sued by any Delphi family member for calling a family member a POI, and I don’t usually name suspects anyway. Which family member successfully sued (and what does that mean?) and when? I’d like to look up the documents. Good luck looking it up because there are no case documents for that lawsuit.

I just typed into Google Mr X Delphi murders, hope this helps. It’s interesting. A woman is claiming her ex is the person responsible for Evansdale and Delphi.

There is no such woman. A woman claimed her ex was the Evansdale killer, but that’s not been proven. As a matter of fact, I know her very well. No woman claimed her ex was both killers.

Yes I’ve heard about him, there is a Mr X he’s a truck driver and makes trips to Delphi regularly.

The Mr. X we discuss is a very local resident of the area. He is not a truck driver. He does not need to make regular trips to Delphi because he lives right around there.

Lindsay’s obsessed with Mr. X.

Yeah. Because he’s the main suspect? Do you know how many times the police have told us this guy is the main suspect? Based on that, I hope I’m obsessed with him! You all just wait and see. You will all end up with egg on your faces.

You’d be surprised. A lot of bullshit rumors start with the likes of Lindsay and even Greeno. Faked police radio transcripts, puppies, teddy bears, knives made of ice, midgets, mini submarines, zip wires, moles, welders, carpet fitters, white dodge darts.

I cannot speak for Mr. Greeno.

The plush bear story has been addressed. The white Dodge Dart was a car that I earlier thought was involved, but that was a gigantic red herring false trail that we followed. I did not report any of the other rumors.

But the idea that there were dolls all over the place or whatever is kinda silly. Nothing like that appears in the crime scene chopper footage.

The chopper footage is far too far away to reveal if there were dolls at the crime scene.

How does Mr. X theory accommodate Young Sketch, and how does Mr. X theory explain why it wasn’t released when they had it in 2017? I know Robert Lindsay suggests catfishing or something like that but I don’t agree that catfishing explains why the sketch wasn’t released until a change in direction in 2019.

The Mr. X theory does not explain the young sketch. The Young BG sketch is of the catfish boy used to lure the girls to the bridge. In that case, catfishing does indeed explain the release of that sketch later on.

Ryan Van Slooten and partner Corey Ahlm, together aka Robert Lindsay, are adept at grabbing sensational details from historical cases, movie plots, and news events, and applying them to their “rumor” machine. Libby being pregnant, something vulgar about tree branches, ritualistic crime scenes

A girl being pregnant, dolls at the crime scene, and the girls being sexually penetrated with foreign objects were all reported to us directly from the police. About whether I am one person or two people or not a person at all or whether I live in Minnesota or California, I normally refuse to comment on such speculations. I suppose you should make up your own mind about that.

The pregnancy rumor was local before it belonged to RL. I also believe there is something to the rumors of sticks and branches. It’s just a rumor. But it’s a rumor I have heard from multiple places over 4 years. I also have family in White and Cass counties and there are local rumors of a similar nature. They are all rumors, but when the same one keeps popping up, I think it’s worthy of discussion.

We didn’t start it. Correct, I first heard that rumor a week or two after the crime from a 55 year old woman. The story about the girls being sexually penetrated with sticks and branches came to us from another one of our police sources, a detective. And apparently the sticks and branches story that has apparently been around for four years and is even a local rumor in the area of the crime.

A story about a girl being impaled with a branch was an early rumor stemming from a local young man who somehow had crime scene photos. He posted these photos for several hours but then took them down. The story is that the photos showed a girl impaled with a tree branch. We are not sure if that rumor is true as our other sources have not corroborated it.

He was correct about the abduction time and the video length though. But everything else is just -_o. He claims he has access to some document that is official and signed saying they are looking for a gun that went off during the crime, blood soaked clothing, and videos of the crime taking place. He also said something about BG sending a video of the murder to Abby’s phone but Abby didn’t have a phone so who the hell knows.

We certainly were correct about the abduction time and the audio length and we released that a year before it came out in the media. I might as well confess. We obtained a copy of a search warrant. Not Ron Logan’s but someone else’s. We had a search warrant on this case a good year and a half before anyone else did when Ron’s search warrant got leaked. So we did have access to confidential documents like I have always claimed.

Yes, a gun was used in the crime and a shot was fired at the crime scene. We even know the model of the gun they are looking for. Indeed they are looking for clothing soaked in blood because the blow to one of the girls was so severe that the killer would have been covered in blood. We definitely believe that the killer videotaped his crime. We now think that the photos or videos were sent to Libby’s phone several hours after the crime, not Abby’s.

At first the story was that they were sent to Abby’s phone and the story was that Abby had a phone that she hid from her mother. But Abby never had a phone. She had an Ipad, which is pretty large, almost like a very small computer screen. She didn’t have it with her that day. Once we ruled out Abby’s phone, the only place the video could have been sent was to Libby’s phone, which she obviously had with her.

What about Lindsay’s statement that JP (I assume that’s who Mr. Z is) had access to KAK’s devices? If Anthony Shots deliberately arranged a meet up to murder Libby and KAK wasn’t the one using the Anthony Shots profile to do that, then JP accessing his devices at some point and potentially stealing or changing his passwords is a huge bit of info, something I’m surprised he pretty much glossed over in that blog post.

Exactly. That is just what we are looking into right now, whether Mr. Z, as Kegan’s computer and phone tech, could have accessed KK’s devices to get his login and passwords and even to conduct a man-in-the-middle attack to cover his tracks in the crime and frame KK to boot. We know that Kegan’s computer had a mysterious dongle put on it after he gave it to Mr. Z for repairs. It simply came back with a dongle. KK never questioned it and forgot about it. However, that dongle could have been used by Mr. Z to hijack Kegan’s computer via a man-in-the-middle attack. R

Recall that there are two voices talking in the anthony_shots material. One is clearly Kegan, but another is absolutely not. They were able to tell by the different style of writing. Sometimes the other person would log on, and Kegan would seem to be booted off his profile. This is what happens in a man-in-the-middle attack. If you are logged in somewhere, you will keep getting logged off mysteriously. That’s the mans-in-the-middle butting in and kicking you off.

I don’t believe the same person leaking the case info as Leigh is tied to RL.

I know who Leigh Kerr is, and I have spoken to him before. I know he is real and his back story matches up well. He and I do not have a good relationship right now.

There is a zero percent chance there was any gunfire or gunshots at the scene. Did not occur. Anyone espousing that as inside information is absolutely not in touch with anyone in LE and knows nothing about LE incident protocol.

From an official case document we obtained, we inferred that a gun was discharged at the scene. We know this because police are looking for a particular gun to do ballistics tests on it, a Sig Sauer 229 in fact, an older gun from 1991 that is popular with various LE departments. If they are looking for a gun to do ballistics tests, then they must have a cartridge from the gun, and it must have been found at the crime scene. We don’t have any more information about this gun discharge.

I don’t believe there was gunfire, either. I could see someone dropping a shell (I don’t know guns but I just mean an unused bullet), or the rumor that a gun was heard being cocked is where this came from. Guns were also on the search warrant for Maxwell so perhaps one being used as a threat but not fired in the abduction is possible.

If they only found an unused bullet, they would not be looking for a gun to do ballistics tests on. BG’s gun can be clearly seen in his right hand jacket pocket. The story about the gun being cocked comes from family members who listened to police playing a tape of the crime. They said that after you hear, “Down the hill,” there is the sound of a gun cocking.

Guns or any other weapons are standard language on any SW’s granted by the court for any criminal matter but definitely a violent homicide.

Indeed, but if they were looking for a specific model, then a gun was definitely discharged at the scene.

Basically he was correct in saying the abduction happened at 2:13 and that the video was 43 seconds long or whatever. Those were stated in a few other places as well and no one knew for sure if it was correct.

People keep saying this but I had never heard either of these times mentioned before I wrote them up in my post, nor had any of my many members. And we have the busiest ears on this case of anyone. I’m doubtful that these ideas were floating around before we reported them.

Lindsay purchased a photo of Libby in her casket from Julie Melvin and then distributed it on the Internet.

Indeed, such a photo exists and was taken by Julie’s cousin at the funeral. The photo had been floating around a while when I asked about it. Somehow or other I obtained a copy. I forget who I got it from. I certainly didn’t buy one. Yes, I did distribute it to my private group, but that’s just a private group. It’s not the Internet. It’s like you invite a bunch of people over to your house and you show them the photo. I think I told them not to put it up on the Web.

If you do a web search on this photo, you won’t find it, so it’s not like it’s floating all over the Net. If it’s on the Net at all, it’s very hard to find. As this case goes on over the years, this photo and even worse ones may well turn up on the web. That’s the nature of famous homicides. I was certainly not the first person to obtain this photo, and I did not put it up on the Internet. Many people have seen this photo, and they were not shown it by me.

Whoever took the photos did so with the intent of selling them. That makes them even more disgusting than RL. IMO. Edit: And anyone who goes to RL to see the pics is disgusting.

I certainly never paid a nickel for such a photo. You cannot see a photo of Libby in her casket by going to my website. There is no such photo on the public portion of my site.

I think the family debunked it, was not Libby.

The family never debunked the funeral photo and said it was not her. In fact, this family is said to hate me because they blame me for the circulation of this photo, but it’s been around since soon after the funeral, and I only obtained it later on. Further, lots of people have seen or have copies of that photo. It was released by me, but only to a very private, paid-only group with instructions not to post it on the Net.

But what was Leigh Kerr’s motive? Not sure. Most of the so-called special info they received was already circulating rumor from early on. Some of the most graphic details came from Robert Lindsay aka Ryan Van Slooten and Corey Ahlm, not trustworthy sources.

I never met Leigh Kerr before he posted. LK obtained his information from official case documents run off by his wife at her work. On her deathbed she asked that they be released. If some of LK’s information had already been revealed by us, it means that we are onto these facts about the case before LK was. It also means we were right about those facts because everything stated as fact by LK was true.

How he hasn’t been sued and found guilty of defamation is beyond me. Hopefully when the killer is arrested and the man whose life he ruined is proven innocent Lindsay will be publicly outed and humiliated. He deserves to be punished for what he’s done.

We never mentioned one person by name as being suspected of committing this crime. I did have one man in mind for a long time, but he turned out to be innocent. His name and details were only discussed on a private paid-only server for an exclusive audience. That would be like a bunch of people getting together behind closed doors and saying something bad about someone. It’s not actionable for defamation.

Further, this charming man discussed here posted many videos in which all but came out and admitted to being the killer of these girls, so maybe you can excuse our suspicion. He turned out to be just one more false confessor. He’s a felon who has shot people with guns and beat his wife’s head into a hard floor. His children had to be taken away and put into “horse therapy” for abused children because of all the trauma they suffered from being in such a violent household. He has done years in state prison and is a member of the Aryan Brotherhood prison gang. Excuse me if I don’t feel real sorry for him.

I’m surprised he didn’t get a knock on the door from law enforcement after that day.

In fact, I was interviewed as one of the hundreds of suspects in this crime. However, I was 2,000 miles away when those girls were killed. If you don’t believe me, ask the FBI because that’s what they told a friend of mine.

Cops are a lot smarter than my enemies, that’s why. The Delphi detectives I worked with on this case were very nice to me as a matter of fact. I guess they figured out I’m harmless.

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70 thoughts on “Delphi Murders Update November 13, 2022: The Arrest of Richard Allen Raises More Questions Than Answers”

  1. Interesting write up but I need to correct you on one thing early on in the piece.

    You said there is no evidence Allen had beef been or knew of the bridge.

    However it is common sense he did.

    His wife and daughter have pics of themselves on the bridge (maybe him too but I don’t know), and it stands to reason he would know regardless, as this nigga lives 2 miles from the bridge, so he’s mega local and would have to know just from that. But also remember his wife has pics there.

  2. While I haven’t been following the case, I do remember about 15 yrs ago when a guy by the name of John Mark Karr confessed to killing JonBenet Ramsey. The media ran with the story, and it was all over the place for a while. The thing is that the story really didn’t hold up to scrutiny. It wasn’t until it had been running for weeks and the case against Karr was close to being dismissed that I saw a report pointing out that Karr lived in Atlanta at the time and was attending Christmas 1996 with relatives.

    In order to have killed Ramsey, he would have had to get on a plane, fly straight to Colorado, get off the plane, go straight to her house, kill her, and then get right back on a plane to Atlanta. It just wasn’t credible.

    I’m wondering if a similar thing is going on here. Since there’s been a lot of pressure to solve this case, the prosecutor might be trying to “solve” it by going after someone and trying to run with it.

    1. LE must have acquired some piece of evidence to be used to bring the charge. I wonder about the felony murder charge but that could be because the video shows a man abducting the girls down the hill. That is kidnapping evidence so that leads to the death of 2 girls?

      1. They’re claiming he killed those girls. If they can prove kidnapping, then they charge kidnapping. Everyone knows that the man on the bridge killed those girls. If they can prove he’s the man on the bridge, then they charge Kidnapping. And if they think he killed those girls, then they add Murder to the charges. So if this is the case, they should charge Kidnapping and Murder 1, not Murder 2 or Felony Murder and probably a bunch of “baby charges” too.

        Felony Murder doesn’t make sense if they think he kidnapped and killed the girls. Also, why not a Kidnapping charge.

  3. Here is the latest from the local news. Lesson here is don’t tell people you were in the vicinity of a major crime unless you have something germane to the investigation to share. Putting yourself there and they saying you didn’t see anything just makes it easier for LE to build a case against you.

    1. So they’re framing this guy then? What about Pat? What about the pregnant girl? What about the weird stuff scattered all over the crime scene? What’s this guy’s motive? Why was the pregnant girl eviscerated?

  4. I think you may have pretty much nailed it in your usual brilliant manner about Allen, the tape, and Kline ratting him out.

    Do you think Allen will now rat out the killer?

    1. I dunno. The cops are now saying that this Allen guy is the BG. I don’t know what to say. I don’t see how that’s possible.

      1. What strikes me chiefly is the fact that he came forward to authorities and admitted he was on the bridge that day ; to me this is the most compelling support for his being BG.

        Yet I believe you knew law enforcement and media were pushing the RA is BG narrative from the day of the arrest press conference—so may I ask what makes you feel differently now?

  5. It would help if they would release the PC, so we’d know what they think they have on him. ISP Carter has said he’d like to see the PC made public, but it wasn’t his decision.

    “Essex: Who’s decision was it to seal the probable cause?

    Carter: The prosecuting attorney that was approved by the judge.

    Essex: Did you have any say in that?

    Carter: I did not know that was going to happen.

    Essex: Would you like to see the probable cause out?

    Carter: I have seen the probable cause.

    Essex: Would you like for me to see the probable cause?

    Carter: I think absolutely, yes. Yes, yes.

    Carter in another interview seemed like he was kind out of the loop on the investigation.

    “Essex: You released three seconds of video with some audio, I think, in ’19. Is the voice that we hear from Libby’s phone, is that Richard Allen?

    Carter: Time will tell, again, I think that once the probable cause affidavit was signed by the judge, that changes things for the investigative team and I don’t profess to be a part of that investigative team, Richard, so it would be inappropriate for us to speculate or talk about what we know until the right time, which is going to be in a court.”

    They seem very confident he’s the guy. If he is, then everything we’ve been told for 5 years was crap. He has blue eyes, he’s too short, he seemingly has no history and was totally not on the radar. He doesn’t look like either of the pictures. Nothing about this guy screams demonic killer. I suppose he could be one of those quiet types you always hear about. You know the ones that the neighbors always say he seemed like such a nice guy, but he was so quiet.

    It’s interesting the comment about they gave the evidence to other investigators to look at and voila we have the killer. So, what did they find on his property and what did the fresh eyes see? And why did he call a conservation officer to tell him he was on the bridge if not to supply some information germane to the investigation? My only take on that is he knew people saw him in the area and thought letting police know he was there but didn’t see anything would protect him from suspicion. Obviously, he was wrong.

    1. I left a comment above yours , we posted at the same time. Coming forward did stand him in good stead for nearly 6 years.

      My strongest instincts did basically feel he fits both physically and psychologically speaking. For me, he resonates loudly.

      And yet your narrative of the tape and Kline was strongly, extremely compelling to me. But now you yourself seem doubtful…

  6. If you’ve already had strong experience with his “type”, and strong feelings even akin at moments of sympathy for that type, you recognize him immediately. An alarm goes off. He actually has the “gestalt” of BG. Not a serial killer, an entirely different typology.

      1. Richard Allen. But that’s just my gut reaction or intuition. It could be an internal bias because they finally made an arrest.

  7. The fact that he’s held without bond is perhaps indicative of strong evidence against him?

    In any case, maybe PB is the accessory.

    Your postings are always wonderfully written and intriguing, notwithstanding.

    1. I don’t know. We can’t make sense of this at all. Put Mr. X’s face up against BG’s. Perfect match, immaculate. Now try it with this guy.

      We think they might be trying to frame an innocent guy. They already practically waterboarded one innocent guy into confessing. And they’ve gaslit two suspects by telling them that the cops know those guys killed those girls even though they knew they didn’t. What would they have done if that guy confessed or said his Dad did it? Prosecute them?

      I think the bond is $2 million. Some say it’s $20 million.

      1. I understand. You may very well be correct on all in the end. Something is off here, in any case — perhaps all too convenient? Time will tell all….

      2. Not saying I believe RA is the killer; honestly, I’ve never picked a winner in that category. I try to just take the flavor du jour and see how he fits the evidence that we think know. But I would caution you to not use the mugshot for comparison to the BG drawings or Libby’s photo. First because the drawings are useless. First it was OBG, then YBG, then maybe both of them. OBG is at least a good drawing that looks suspiciously like Mike Patty, which is believable because he was in the park that day.

        The YBG picture could be anybody. Secondly, there are other younger pictures of RA out there where is face is thinner. When I showed those pictures compared to YBG, to my wife she saw an instant resemblance. I think he has gained a considerable amount of weight over the last five years as many of us have. So I guess my biggest question is what did the new eyeballs see in the evidence that made RA the prime suspect? There is obviously a lot we don’t have available to us evidence-wise.

        The most damning evidence would be voice recognition followed by gait. There is a video out there that show RA with a slight hitch in his step similar to what BG appears to have in the video. They have BG’s voice on tape, and I’m sure they now have RA’s also. Don’t know how reliable that is, but if it’s acceptable as evidence and his is a close match, then he’s in a heap of trouble.

        Let’s play what if here a little.

        The case for

        He admits to being at the bridge.

        We’ll go with a decent voice match.

        They found something of value when they searched his yard.

        He was thinner at the time of the murders and had facial hair very similar to OBG.

        He lives close enough to walk to and from the crime scene without being detected.

        Rumor is he checked himself into a mental hospital for 30 days soon after the murders.

        Changed his appearance with weight gain and change in facial hair. Two things you can easily change but that also can be totally innocent.

        The case against

        Motive, unless he’s just a stone-cold killer.

        Why the field abortion and evisceration of Libby if that rumor is true?


        Eye color, if we are to believe the earlier reports.

        History, as far as we know. He was a traveling manager and lived in Illinois for a while. Do we have other bodies looking for a killer anywhere he’s been or lived before?

        The general sense in the community and among co-workers about his personality and the type of person he was.

        The release of the PC would be helpful. Knowing what they found at his home would be huge. And knowing what the new eyeballs saw in the evidence that the old investigators were missing would also be huge. I’m guessing there is some big piece of evidence out there that has never been shared with the public that someone saw when reviewing the evidence that jumped out at them.

        Add that to what they found at his house and his admitting he was at the bridge that day, and you could have a pretty compelling argument for at least a Murder 2 PC. We’ve all been working on the assumption that this was a planned, calculated murder targeting Libby. What if it was something else and the girls died in the commission of another crime but he wasn’t intending for that to happen?

        Let’s get kinky here for a moment. We think we know he was on the AS site. From the picture on FB, it’s obvious Libby looks like a younger version of his daughter. Maybe this was all about fantasy incest. He was using the AS site to talk to young girls. He found one that looked like his daughter and got turned on. He made arrangements to meet her, thinking based on their online discussions that she was interested in sex.

        Which maybe she was, but not with a guy old enough to be her dad. But he doesn’t think that way. He thinks these girls want it and they’ll be happy to see him. We’re not talking about mentally mature or stable people here. He goes to the bridge, sees two girls there, but stupidly doesn’t bail.

        He hustles them off to the crime scene which he has laid out like a little girl’s bedroom (Did his daughter like lots of dolls and big stuffed bears?). As a last-ditch effort to stop him, Libby blurts out, she’s pregnant. He loses it. She was supposed to be a representation of his virginal little girl. In a rage he kills her and then poses her in a sexual manner. How’s that for a creepy screenplay?

        Of course, this doesn’t tell us anything about Abby. But if the accomplice took her somewhere else as I’ve theorized and brought her back at 2:00 AM, then that covers that. And if Abby screamed as we are led to believe, someone did and the accomplice cold-cocked her to shut her up. The blow killed her.

        Now we have that guy on Murder (2) also if we can find him. So, let’s recap, now you have Kidnapping, Attempted Rape, Assault with a Deadly Weapon on both girls and Felony Murder or, drop roll please, two counts of Murder (2) on RA and his accomplice.

        The only question remaining is would his rage have pushed him as far as the evisceration, if that rumor is true? Was he trying to return Libby back to her virginal state in his mind? Again, these are not stable people were talking about. This is all, of course, just fantasyland stuff. But hey it’s a good story, and if true gives us motive and murder (2).

        But let’s be honest, there is a lot we just don’t know.

        1. and you could have a pretty compelling argument for at least a Murder 2 PC.

          So how come he’s not being charged with that?

          1. He has been. Murder 2 in Indiana is basically Felony murder.

            Felony murder

            The rule of felony murder is a legal doctrine in some common law jurisdictions that broadens the crime of murder: when someone is killed (regardless of intent to kill) in the commission of a dangerous or enumerated crime (called a felony in some jurisdictions), the offender, and also the offender’s accomplices or co-conspirators, may be found guilty of murder.

            Indiana murder (2)

            (2) kills another human being while committing or attempting to commit arson, burglary, child molesting, consumer product tampering, criminal deviate conduct (under IC 35-42-4-2 before its repeal), kidnapping, rape, robbery, human trafficking, promotion of human labor trafficking, promotion of human sexual trafficking, promotion of child sexual trafficking, promotion of sexual trafficking of a younger child, child sexual trafficking, or carjacking (before its repeal);

        2. Let’s get kinky here for a moment.

          Thanks for the theory. It’s a nice plot for a murder mystery. But I don’t think it applies here. For one thing, for a murder of passion as you describe here, he absolutely gets Murder 2. For Felony Murder, you weren’t even trying to kill someone. Hell, you weren’t even trying to hurt someone. But someone got hurt anyway.

          1. See my earlier post. He is being charged with Murder (2).

            “The specific charge being alleged against Allen applies when a defendant:

            (2) kills another human being while committing or attempting to commit arson, burglary, child molesting, consumer product tampering, criminal deviate conduct (under IC 35-42-4-2 before its repeal [this involves deviate sexual conduct]), kidnapping, rape, robbery, human trafficking, promotion of human labor trafficking, promotion of human sexual trafficking, promotion of child sexual trafficking, promotion of sexual trafficking of a younger child, child sexual trafficking, or carjacking”

            Based on this charge they think he was directly involved in the death of the girls, but it happened during the commission of a different crime of a felony level, and he did not intend to kill anyone, i.e, no premediated intent. They have something on him. I can’t image a judge would approve a PC affidavit for his arrest without something pretty damning. Actually, this kind of blows up the whole PB killed them in a premediated, planned attack idea we’ve all been working on.

            Makes my theory look better.

          2. Murder 2 is Indiana’s Felony Murder law. I don’t care what it says. It always means the person didn’t kill anyone. It means he wasn’t the killer, as Jack says. Felony Murder laws work the same in every state is my understanding.

            Actually, this kind of blows up the whole Mr. X killed them in a premediated, planned attack idea we’ve all been working on.

            Well, it means that the cops dumped that very promising theory in favor of this other one, which is a bit weird.

            We were told all this time that the police knew that Mr. X killed those girls, not thought, knew.

            And it’s well known that those girls were lured to the bridge that day. The way that BG was packing, he was definitely there to kill. Notice how he timed the abduction precisely at 2:13? This whole thing was planned out in advance. Plus look at the murder scene set up before. Whoever killed them absolutely planned it in advance and definitely lured those girls there.

  8. And your narrative regarding RA being in possession of a tape, and Kline ratting him out for this, remains compelling. He could be charged with felony murder under this umbrella and his arrest could be an attempt to flush your Mr. X out, who would be the actual murderer while RA is an accessory but has been charged under the felony statute in order to raise the pressure.

    The only thing which gives onestrong pause is that directly after the murders, he presented himself to the conservation officer and actually admitted he was not only on the trails but on the actual bridge the afternoon of the murders. It’s as if he was not only afraid that he may have been seen, but that his shoe prints could be detected as part of the crime scene.

    1. Good point on his reason for placing himself at the bridge. Why else would you come forward and tell anyone this unless you were going to offer information on what you may have seen, which he didn’t. He’d be someone that a lot of people might recognize from his job. Maybe not know his name but could tell LE ‘the guy from CVS’.

      There is still something about him that doesn’t feel right to me, but then I admit I don’t have all the evidence LE has. Some of my misgiving might go away if had a couple of answers to some questions.

      1. He’d be someone that a lot of people might recognize from his job. Maybe not know his name but could tell LE ‘the guy from CVS’.

        Even with half of his face covered up with a scarf?

        There is still something about him that doesn’t feel right to me, but then I admit I don’t have all the evidence LE has.

        I actually agree with you here. I thought I had this guy figured out but maybe not.

    2. And your narrative regarding RA being in possession of a tape, and Kline ratting him out for this, remains compelling. He could be charged with felony murder under this umbrella and his arrest could be an attempt to flush your Mr. X out, who would be the actual murderer while RA is an accessory but has been charged under the felony statute in order to raise the pressure.

      YES. Handling the tape would be Felony Murder, not accessory. He’s not helping anyone get away with the crime by handling that tape. Handling the tape would be Felony Murder. Accessory you helped someone get away with it and he would be charged with Accessory to Murder, a different charge.

      Wait. I thought he said he was in the woods. Now he says he was actually at the bridge? Hmm, since when does a killer place himself at the crime scene though when he’s not even a suspect?

      Are his shoe prints Indiana Packers boots? Because BG is wearing those boots. Does RA have a pair of Indiana Packers boots?

      1. That I don’t know. I don’t know what kind of footwear he had on or what tread he may have thought he left.

        As per the source I sent in my emails to you, (did you receive them?) it’s apparently a matter of record that he placed himself on the Monon high bridge on Feb 13.

        That had to be a self-protecting, preemptive move. Perhaps he feared he’d been seen and recognized.

  9. The bond was listed as $20 million, but the prosecution told FOX59 news that he is actually being held without bond, which is if anything an even stronger indication that they have obtained hard evidence against him.

    1. Yeah, that figure has been all over the place. I’ve heard $20M, $2M and no bond, so I’m not sure which is accurate. If it is no bond, then it seems that LE thinks they have their guy.

  10. I’m not going to argue with you, and respectfully what “Jack says about felony murder” doesn’t really matter. What matters is what the court documents say he is being charged with and this is what he was charged with.

    “The docket says Allen is charged with murder under Ind. Code § 35-42-1-1(2), which is a MURDER involving a specific underlying criminal offense.”

    I’ve read the docket and that is what it says. I believe someone posted it on this site a week or so ago and yes that is what he is charged with.

    Also, from the article from ‘Law & Crime’:

    “Regardless of which underlying offense is at play, the murder charges — as they are currently listed under Ind. Code § 35-42-1-1(2) — will require prosecutors to prove as follows: (1) that the named defendant (2) KILLED (3) each specific victim (4) while “committing or attempting to commit” the underlying offense.”

    So, under Indiana’s murder (2) statute, the State believed they had enough evidence to arrest (1) ‘the defendant, Richard Allen’ for (2) ‘killing’, (3) ‘the victims, Libby and Abby’, (4) while committing or attempting to commit some other crime.

    Those are the facts on the grounds here in Indiana. We can speculate whether LE has the right guy. I still have my doubts. But we can’t keep saying LE doesn’t think he killed anybody. Under the Indiana state law, he is charged with the actual though not premeditated murders of Libby and Abby. Period, end of argument.

    They have him on the bridge that day by his own admission, and they obviously found something incriminating during their search of his property. It would appear they either don’t have enough to convict him on Murder (1) or they actually believe he didn’t intend to kill anyone, but things went south, and the girls ended up dead. That may not fit our theories on this site, but they convinced a judge, and that’s all that counts. Hopefully, we’ll get to see the PC next week. But if they are looking for an accomplice we may not.

    Based on what I know of his history, it doesn’t make a lot of sense to me, but I’ll admit I don’t know as much as LE knows. Give me the PC and maybe I change my mind, but right now something doesn’t seem right based on the gruesomeness of the murders and seeming lack of history on RA. But I go back to the fact they had enough for a judge to say, “Go arrest him.”

    I’m probably going to just sit back and wait now and see if we get anymore information next week. If not, then I guess we’re done until January when they hold the pretrial hearing.

    1. Hey, I told you we could be harsh! 😉 All right, you convinced me. This is not a typical Felony Murder law then I guess.

      We are still not sure he admitted to being on the bridge. We have it from another source that he only said he was in the woods around the crime scene that day.

      1. I’m not sure admitting you were in the woods near the crime scene is any better. 🤔

        “Mr. Allen were you on the bridge the day of the murder?”

        “No sir, I was in the woods near the crime scene.”

        “Alrighty then, see you in court Mr. Allen”

        Either he was trying to cover his tracks or he’s beyond clueless.

        1. It’s better than saying you were on that Goddamn bridge!

          Sounds like it’s something that could happen to some totally naive guy.

          Goes to his friend the DNR guy, “Hey, I was in the woods that day, but I didn’t see anything.” Told in confidence to a friend, no intention of reporting it to the police. Friend, “Man! How you have to go to the police and tell them right now! It’s mandatory!” Naive guy: “Duh, uh, ok. I guess I’ll be a good citizen.”

          That’s not how you go about covering your tracks. You don’t cover your tracks by telling someone in confidence to a friend. Also, when was the last time you heard of a killer deliberately placing themselves at a crime scene without even being asked (!) for any reason whatsoever. That doesn’t cover your tracks at all. It puts you right in the middle of things!

          1. And that is where he finds himself. I’m guessing IF he’s involved, he did it because he ran into someone while on his walk in the woods who could identify him. He would have been well known at least as that guy who works at CVS. He thought it was best to put himself there and control the narrative as to why and where than to have that person talk to the police and then him have to explain his situation.

            I can see his point. Usually, the police would probably not follow-up as hard on a self-incriminating statement as one offered by a third party. In one story I read that is exactly what happened. The police did initially dismiss his story about being there and didn’t revisit it until they had the new eyes look at the evidence. Something about his statement must have grabbed the new guy’s attention. And of course, his old buddy KK throwing him under the bus also put him firmly on the suspect list.

            This is throwing some shade on LE, but what if they got so focused on the pictures and the witness statements about eye color etc., that they overlooked someone, RA, who fit a lot of what they were looking for. New people were brought in, noticed some things and said how reliable are those witness statements you’re working with? This guy looks pretty good for it if you dump the eye color and height estimate.

            Then of course you have KK’s contribution, whatever that was and whatever they found in his backyard. Remember, they started with OBG, dropped him for YBG two years in, and then finally settled on, well, maybe a little of both. They told us he was most likely in his 40’s but could look younger. Then they arrested a 70 something guy with blue eyes who looked 70.

            They didn’t have a clue what the guy looked like other than a fuzzy video and were working with witness statements from people who saw people walking in the park that day, not people on the bridge or leaving the crime scene. As crazy as it sounds when this goes to court the ‘guy’ may not look much at all like the physical description we’ve been given.

            If RA had kept his mouth shut about being there that day, he may have skated. Putting himself basically at the crime scene was beyond stupid whether he did it intentionally to distract or because he was clueless. By doing so he did half of the work for LE. After that, all they had to do was find evidence of criminal activity on his part, because they knew he was there.

          2. You watch the videos?



            He says the charge filed, Felony Murder, means he’s not the killer. Someone else is the killer. The whole thing smells and doesn’t make sense. PC’s are never sealed like that. There is no felony charged to go along with the Felony Murder. There’s just Felony Murder with no felony specified. And that’s beyond weird too because typically there’s Felony Murder and then whatever the felony was that was associated with that.

            The lawyer doesn’t think he’s the BG, and he wonders if he was even there that day. He thinks RA may have lured the girls to the bridge via the anthony_shots profile, possibly for some completely different reason that what unfolded. He didn’t foresee that they would be raped and murdered at all! Then they end up dead and he’s up shit creek without a paddle! Now he’s implicated in a double murder where he helped lure the victims there. So he completely freaks out.

            And that’s why HE CHECKS HIMSELF INTO A MENTAL HOSPITAL FOR A MONTH AFTERWARDS. Makes sense, right? Consequently the looks of anger, rage, betrayal, disbelief, confusion, craziness, being lost, and like he screwed up real bad through no fault of his own. Also the feeling we get from his letter that a part of him thinks this is bullshit and he can maybe get out of it somehow if he gets a good enough lawyer.

            The lawyer also speculates that the whole thing is a psyop to pressure the real killer. They are now watching the real killer to see what he does now that they arrested this lower rung guy. And he thinks they slammed RA with this charge to scare the shit out of him and get him to name some names or else.

            In other words, my and a lot of our original views are vindicated. This is what I thought from the very start based on pure intuition.

  11. Indiana State Police Chief Doug Carter said in a live interview last night that he believes the probable cause arrest affidavit will be released to the press and public.

    🌟This may prove your theory that he played a peripheral role and is being used to flush out Mr. X.

    1. That will be helpful. It may clear up a lot of things. I’d like to see the search warrant to or at least know what they found.

  12. In this interview with Sheriff Leazenby, toward the conclusion, the reporter asks him regarding Allen’s arrest, if he’s afraid it will prove to be a let-down.

    He responds to the effect of, no, because he saw what they have on him.

    So clearly there is something in the way of strong evidence, of whatever kind. Doesn’t necessarily leave out another suspect, though.

  13. Actually, he didn’t say because he was charged with Felony murder/Murder (2) that he didn’t kill anyone. In fact, he cited the same Statute that I posted early that states specifically that murder (2) involves unintentional death occurring during the commission or attempted commission of an accompanying felony. He then said it was possible that he didn’t kill anyone, but we don’t know it’s just speculation since we the records are sealed.

    I do agree with his comment about how unusual it is to have everything sealed in this case. That has been true since the beginning. It has always made me wonder if there is something bigger surrounding this case than just the death of the two girls.

    And I disagree with his assessment of which is harder to prove murder (1) or (2). With (1) you have to prove pre-mediation or intent, which is not required by (2). It is not unusual for a judge to instruct a jury to consider a lesser charge, i.e, (2) or manslaughter if they can’t quite come to agreement on intent. And often times a prosecutor will plea down to M2 If they don’t think they can convict on M1.

    I do find it interesting that he is not being charged with the underlying felony that led to the deaths. You would think that would be included. It would give them a fall back for a conviction if they can’t prove the m2 charge. Can’t prove the girl’s deaths resulted from your actions, but we can prove you ordered them off the bridge at gunpoint as an example of kidnapping.

    Lastly, did you notice that both murder charges are dated 2/13/2017? Would indicate that they believe both girls died that day, and that Abby was not killed early the next morning as some have theorized based on rumors of body temperature.

    Hopefully, we’ll see the PC on Monday and it will answer at least a few questions. For the record I don’t think he is the only person involved whatever his involvement is, but we’ll see. LE, in their interviews, are all very confident they have their man. Could be bravado, setting up the railroading or they’ve seen the evidence we’ve haven’t seen and feel good about it.

    1. Actually, he didn’t say because he was charged with Felony murder/Murder (2) that he didn’t kill anyone. In fact, he cited the same Statute that I posted early that states specifically that murder (2) involves unintentional death occurring during the commission or attempted commission of an accompanying felony. He then said it was possible that he didn’t kill anyone, but we don’t know it’s just speculation since we the records are sealed.

      He said, “I do not think RA is the person who actually killed these girls!…The death of the victims is likely at the hands of another person who has not been named by police…Richard Allen is not the main person in this case.”

      1. We will see. I have my doubts he’s the big Kahuna, but LE seems very confident in their interviews that they have their man. May all be bravado for the masses, but they did get a search warrant and arrest warrant, and he places himself in the area on that day.

  14. You have all the pieces to a plausible and simple theory laid out your posts. A long time ago, you shared a rumor that Libby’s trip to the bridge was being discussed by a group at one of the local bars on the Friday before the murder. RA overheard the discussion (and probably several others in the bar, which is how the rumor started spreading). RA stalked Libby’s social media to find out when she was going. He set up the scene afterward to look like the “prank” that the men had discussed at the bar, implicating them in the murder.

    Had the bar participants reported to the police about their public discussion 5.5 years ago, all of the patrons present could have been identified and investigated, and RA would have been discovered as the murderer way back then. It certainly explains why BP is desperate to keep the court documents sealed, so the witnesses aren’t outed and things become awkward.

    1. I don’t know. I don’t think he killed those girls. Someone else killed them. And I don’t think he was even in on a plot to kill the girls or they would have filed Murder 1 charges against him.

      RA overheard the discussion (and probably several others in the bar, which is how the rumor started spreading). RA stalked Libby’s social media to find out when she was going. He set up the scene afterward to look like the “prank” that the men had discussed at the bar, implicating them in the murder.

      How do you know all of this, or is this just a theory of yours? We heard that they set up the scene beforehand and it was three other men who set up the scene for a prank.

  15. I will now be either deleting or editing any comments suggesting that RA is BG. It’s a false theory and we don’t allow those on here.

    You can still say he helped kill those girls or was involved in the murders somehow. That’s just fine. Right now we are split. Some of us think he’s pretty much innocent and some of us still think he’s somehow linked to these girls’ deaths. Both positions are reasonable hypotheses, so I will allow comments stating either. I suppose those of us on both sides of the debate ought to try to respect the theories of the other side, but that may be too much to ask for.

    Richard Allen’s height.

    I just found out that RA is listed as 5’4 on his 2011 speeding ticket. So RA’s driver’s license said he was 5’4 in 2011 because the officer got the height on the ticket from the driver’s license. The height listed on your driver’s license is unlikely to be wrong. I believe the first time they write it down they actually measure you! In addition, court records from around that time also listed Allen’s height as 5’4.

    To add insult to injury, jail records for Allen’s current incarceration list his height at 5’4.

    Look the videos and stills of Allen being shuttled into and out of the courtroom. All of the officers are quite a bit taller than he is. Your average man in the US is 5’9. I assume those officers are the same. So there’s even more evidence that RA is 5’4.


    If Richard Allen is 5’4, then he could not possibly be BG because we know that the man on the bridge is between 5’8-5’9 by FBI estimates and Youtube recreations using sophisticated instruments. Any cops saying that Richard Allen is BG are full of it!

    At the moment, there is no reasonable case to be made that RA is BG. Sure, perhaps he played some other role in the crime. No problem. But RA being BG is a dead argument now.

  16. Why don’t we wait for the PCA to be released before we all make assumptions and statements saying that there is no way he could be BG? Why is there no way? He does actually look like the man in the video, and he admitted to being there that day, and the police have arrested him??? The picture is very grainy yet you say for 100% certainty that he is wearing Packers boots? It just doesn’t make sense…We can all have our opinions, but you say he’s definitely not the guy when it’s just not possible to do that without us seeing what evidence the police have on him.

    1. There is no way he can be BG.

      There. I said it. Reason? He is only 5’4. BG is absolutely between 5’8-5’9 by FBI estimates and also by Youtube videos doing reconstructions with sophisticated measurements. Richard Allen is listed as 5’4 on a speeding ticket, driver’s license and court record in 2011. And right now, he is listed as 5’4 in jail.

      Due to the height discrepancy alone, Richard Allen cannot possibly be BG.

      Also Allen is 5’4, 180 with a BMI of 31. That is obese. The man on the bridge is 5’9, 175 with a BMI of 26.5. That is only a bit overweight.

      So he looks like the man in the video? You know how many other people have been said to look just like the man in the video? Lots.

      Supposedly he admits to being there, or maybe he just admits to being in the woods. It’s no matter anyway. Lots of people were around that area that day.

      The police arrested him for the murders? LOL! That’s probably the worst reason of all to think he’s guilty. Sorry, I’m not a cop worshiper or an Injustice System worshipper. I don’t worship at the Church of Cop. That’s you guys.

      Yes, those are Packers boots because of the white stripe on the bottom. Also, the police raided Packers soon after the crime and seized a pair of boots. A photo of these boots appeared in an evidence bag in the media that day. It had the exact same white stripe along the bottom of the boot. Therefore, BG is wearing Indiana Packers boots.

      It just doesn’t make sense…

      Yeah it does, in fact.

      We can all have our opinions but you say he’s definitely not the guy when it’s just not possible to do that without us seeing what evidence the police have on him.

      Nope. The height alone means he can’t possibly be BG. I get that the cops are saying he’s BG, but I trust cops and DA’s about as far as I could throw one, which is not very far. Sorry, seen too much of their lying, corrupt crap in my lifetime.

      1. Has LE actually stated he’s bridge guy or just that he is involved in the murders? If they haven’t ID’d him as BG, then the height isn’t an issue. If they have specifically stated that they believe he’s the guy on the bridge then we have a problem for just the reason you’ve stated. I would also think by now they have him on tape saying, ‘Down the hill’ to use in voice recognition. Again, if it’s a close match then we have all kinds of problems. If it isn’t then he’s not BG, though he may have been involved in some way.

        1. They’ve said both. They’ve actually out and out stated that he’s BG and they’ve also only said that he was involved in the murders. So they’ve said both. People on here can keep saying he was involved in the murders. Hell, I guess you can even say he was there that day if you want, but I don’t think you can say that he helped kill those girls or that he was BG. If he helped kill those girls, no way would he get a Felony Murder charge. But perhaps he was involved in the crime at some other level. That’s a possibility.

          Voice recognition is BS. You know how many people have sworn that BG’s voice is the voice of Mr. So and So? Lots. Voice recognition technology is junk and is not allowed in court. It doesn’t work. You can fake it out by changing your voice. And I think a lot people’s voices can sound the same too, you can get false positives.

          If he was not BG but he was there on the bridge with BG (there have long been suggestions that there was more than one abductor on the bridge, I think once again, he gets more than Felony Murder. Felony Murder is a real hokey charge. You weren’t even involved in a plot or scheme to kill someone. You were just committing some other felony and someone happened to die in the process.

          1. Robert,
            In addition, about the unspent bullet match:

            As the attorney for Kaitlin Armstrong has said, ballistics is pseudoscience and witchcraft. They admit in the PCA that the matching is subjective.

  17. Uh oh. Mr. Allen may be in a lot of trouble. The redacted PC was released today, and it doesn’t look good for him. They found a bullet at the crime scene between the two bodies Said bullet has been matched to gun owned by Allen. He told the police he never loaned the gun to anyone and had owned it since 2000. He may not be 5’9″, but he could be screwed. Unless someone is doing a great job of setting him up, this puts him at the crime scene with a gun.

    1. The bullet is a joke. Ballistics tests are suspect anyway and that’s when the gun has been fired. After it is fired, the gun does a lot of weird stuff to the bullet. This bullet was only ejected from this gun. Does that do anything at all to the bullet?! If ballistics is suspect when a gun is fired, it’s 10X more suspect when it’s just ejected.

      Also, why in God’s name would this guy or any killer merely eject a bullet and leave it at a crime scene. I’ve never heard of one homicide where this took place! There’s no reason to do it other than to place your gun at the crime scene so you can get caught. You either shoot a gun or you don’t. No one ejects a bullet and leaves it lying on the ground. Ridiculous. I think the bullet might have been planted there by the real killer or it’s not even from his gun. It already looks like the killers were trying to frame at least 4-5 different people in this case, and this guy would just be one more.

      He may not be 5’9″, but he could be screwed.

      I agree with this part. Yeah but the height and weight destroys the whole case. He can’t possibly be BG. Sure maybe he was there doing whatever, but he ain’t that guy on the bridge, and that’s the state’s case. I’d acquit on that right there.

      Unless someone is doing a great job of setting him up, this puts him at the crime scene with a gun.

      I don’t think it does. The ballistics science on a mere ejected bullet must be pathetic. It’s either not really from his gun (probable) or the killer tried to frame him too.

      They found a bullet at the crime scene between the two bodies Said bullet has been matched to gun owned by Allen.

      Yeah but that analysis is looking like a big joke. Even ballistics is a pretty weak science and then you have way more evidence because it was fired.

      He told the police he never loaned the gun to anyone and had owned it since 2000.

      Yeah, and Allen and Pat Brown are extremely close, very good friends. The analysis probably can’t link the bullet to his gun anyway. Or if it’s his, Pat could have planted it there. The killers already tried to frame 4-5 others. He’d just be one more.

  18. This Richard Allen guy is a total patsy!

    Although you may never discover the demented killer’s identity, I think you guys have already figured out the cabal that is involved, and that leads to a very dark and high place.

    The police seem hellbent on pinning it on some character and shoving the files on this case in some cabinet.

  19. You might eject a bullet if you were trying to scare someone. I own a pistol and before you shoot it you chamber a round. If there is already a round in the chamber and you do the chambering procedure the bullet in the chamber will be ejected. Why would you do that? To scare someone. You put the gun to someone’s head and chamber a round. It makes a very ominous sound that most people who’ve watched TV or movies would be familiar with. I’m guessing if you wanted to persuade a 13-14-year-old girl to do something, chambering a round in Sig Sauer P226 next to her head would get her attention.

    It would be interesting to know what they dug up from his fire pit. As I mentioned in another post the witness accounts of the guy they saw in the park are pretty varied. “Really light blue” jacket, all black and a blue Jean jacket. Not a lot of continuity. The one woman remembered he had gray hair with a little brown. RA appears to have blondish hair. It would be interesting to know who the muddy and bloody man walking along CR300N was. He might be a prime suspect.

    I don’t think you can just blow off the bullet. It is solid evidence. Do they have fingerprints off of it? Unless you were wearing gloves you left prints on the bullet when you loaded it in the magazine. And as hard as it is sometimes to get the damn things in the magazine you could leave skin and DNA. I have on more than a few times. As far as ballistics being junk, I’m guessing there are a lot of people sitting in prison right now based on ballistics evidence. I used to sell forensic laboratory equipment including the microscopes used in ballistics testing. I’ve used them and they can match a bullet up pretty well. Are ejection marks as definitive? Based on the comment about being subjective, I’d say not.

    I still don’t buy that he’s the guy on the bridge. I know it’s a crappy picture, but it just doesn’t look like him to me. Doesn’t mean he wasn’t involved in the crime. I think we focus too much on the Murder (2) charge. The burden of proof is less for Murder (2) than M1. They may feel confident in their case, but don’t feel they have motive or can’t prove pre-meditation, so they are going after the easier charge. Wouldn’t be the first time that’s been done. You keep saying the felony murder doesn’t mean you’ve killed someone. That just isn’t a true statement in the state of Indiana. I don’t care what some lawyer on a podcast says. The law specifically states that someone charged with M2 has killed someone. The M2 charge is a murder charge. It specifically says you have killed someone during the commission or attempted commission of a felony.

    IC 35-42-1-2 (Felony Murder)

    “A PERSON who KILLS another human being while committing or attempting to commit arson, burglary, child molesting, consumer product tampering, criminal deviate conduct, kidnapping, rape, robbery, human trafficking, promotion of human trafficking, sexual trafficking of a minor, or carjacking commits murder, a felony.”

    Can’t get much clearer than that. Whether we agree or not. They think he killed the girls during the commission or attempts commission of one of those other felonies. Period. Now they have to prove it. Which felony? I’m betting kidnapping, rape or trafficking. The minute the gun was pulled out and they were ordered down the hill they were being kidnapped. So, whoever did that was committing a felony. Don’t know why they didn’t include the accompanying felony in the charging document.

    The issue isn’t whether they think he’s guilty of murder. The issue now is can they prove it and was anyone else involved.

    1. You keep getting all caught up in that crazy language. I listened to that lawyer’s video. He said like Jack did that the Felony Murder charge means that he did not actually kill those girls.

      I said in a post below that “kill another human being while committing another felony such as bla bla…” doesn’t mean what it literally appears to mean.

      All Felony Murder laws work the same.

      The wording of that Indiana law means that in the cases of the getaway car driver for the armed robbery gone bad, the woman who drove the getaway car to a burglary where the burglars died, the kidnapper whose victim escaped and ran across the road and got hit by a car, and the drug dealer who sold drugs to someone who took them and died…according to these nutty laws and this Indiana law in particular, Indiana is saying that the two getaway car drivers, the drug dealer, and and the kidnapper all literally killed another human being while committing another felony.

      Every one of them literally killed that person who died. That’s how Felony Murder laws are written and how they work.

      Jack said it means he didn’t kill them and the Indiana lawyer also said that the Felony Murder charge means he didn’t kill the girls.

      You can’t get caught up in all this “exact wording” stuff. It’s very concretistic thinking and you’re better than that. You’ve got to get abstract. You’re going to end up like my brother’s friend who insisted that fatally wounded means the person didn’t die because it says “worded” in there. You don’t read words literally. You read them as they are applied and understood. I took Semantics to get my Linguistics degree.

      Personally, I think all these stupid Felony Murder laws are crap and need to be trashed for the very reasons cited above. They are written terribly so they don’t make sense or don’t mean what they are applied to mean and furthermore, if you didn’t kill anyone, you didn’t kill anyone. Period. There’s involuntary manslaughter for gross stupidity resulting in death and that’s the lowest bar.

      There’s no way that the mere act of ejecting a round puts much marks at all on that bullet. Firing it must do 10X more changes in that bullet and even then, ballistics science is very weak. Sure people are in prison on ballistics evidence, but that’s after they fired a bullet from their guns. You know that causes 10X more damage to the bullet than ejecting a round, which I doubt even does a damn thing.

      Also all ballistics science is based on the characteristic changes that happen to bullets when they are fired from guns. I’m not aware that any of that is applicable to an ejected round and this is the first time I’ve heard of ballistics science ridiculously examining an ejected round.

      Either Pat threw a bullet from his gun down there, or, mostly likely of all, it’s probably not even from his gun.

      Anyway if you chamber a round and eject a bullet, um, you pick it up and carry it away? The killer is a master criminal, a criminal genius. He threw toilet bowl cleaner all over everything to leave zero DNA and who knows what other precautions he took. He had some fall guys set up the props so their DNA would be all over those items.

      There’s no way this criminal genius ejects a bullet from his gun, sees it on the ground, and leaves it there. And if Allen did it, which he can’t because he’s not BG, even if he was so fucktarded as to leave a bullet there, there’s no way he’d still have that gun after five years.

      The issue now is can they prove it and was anyone else involved.

      Well, yeah and they ain’t got jack on this patsy. He’s not BG and I really doubt if he played any other role either. He doesn’t have it in him and his behavior after the arrest and the huge army of supporters he has implies innocence. He looks confused. Why the Hell am I being charged with murder? What the Hell did I do? What’s going on here anyway? No diabolical murderer acts like that.

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