assface, our friendly local hebephile in the Comments, responds to my earlier post with a number of criticisms. I respond to his criticisms below. It’s an interesting debate if you are interested in this area of Sexology. I’m a bit of an amateur sexologist myself which is why I’m into this stuff. I find it fascinating.
assface tries to promote a theory that men are maximally attracted to girls age 12-17 (hebephilic to ephebophilic range) and that sexual arousal declines after that (ephebophilic to teleiophilic range). I don’t agree with that, and I cite the science that sense that men are most aroused by adult women aged 18-24 (ephebophilic to teleiophilic* range) and less aroused, ranging from 54-80
assface: A recent study on dating sites found that the most popular age for women was 18, i.e. the lowest age allowed.
What would the graph look like if girls under 18 were allowed on the sites? Like this?
Obviously, what the market really wants is girls under 18. Blindingly obvious to anyone with a bit of common sense. Most sexologists don’t look at real-world data like this. Most of their data comes from self-report surveys in which men are obviously lying or those willy tests were they put an elastic band on a man’s knob and show him pictures. Real precise science, yeah. There’s lots more real-world data showing that women peak in attractiveness before 18 not the early 20s, which is what biology predicts we would see.
You mention the Yanomamo tribe quite a lot on this site. Do you think the men in this tribe find women in their early 20s the most attractive? LOL. Anthropologist Napoleon Chagnon, author of the famous book, The Yanomamo, the Fierce People, reported that when the girls got to about 12 and grew some perky boobies all the men noticed and they would have to be closely guarded to stop the getting raped or abducted by raiders.
By the time they’d got to their late teens or 20 and started having babies the men would say they were past their prime and “growing old”. The men would lose a lot of interest in them and they would no longer have to be closely guarded.
We see the same pattern in our society. Girls are most likely to be victims of sex crime between about 12 and 17. What’s happening is that the males in our species are focusing on the females just prior the beginning of their reproductive lifespan when their long-term reproductive potential is at its highest.
In one of his papers, prominent Ray Blanchard actually mentions that in primitive foragaing societies the pubescent girls are often closely guarded and claims this is evidence that the men aren’t attracted to them.
LOL RUT?
If they DIDN’T have to be guarded and could freely go about with no danger of being raped or abducted that would show that the men aren’t interested in them. The fact they have to be closely guarded just goes to show how much they’re sought after by the men.
The man just isn’t that bright, and that’s the norm for sexologists. The whole field of Sexology is filled with third-rate intellects who went into it because that weren’t smart enough to become proper scientists.
I don’t think teenage minor girls should be allowed on those sites. Although, a dirty little secret, Grindr for gay men is absolutely flooded with teenage boy minors, many of them underage. And no one cares! Furthermore, gay clubs are typically crowded with a lot of 16 and 17 year old boys, even in states where it is illegal. Notice the feminists don’t care about that though! They only want to police us straight men!
Well, the studies show that 84
Keep in mind that 23
23
I don’t think adult men should be having sex with 12-13 year old girls. I would not allow any adult man to have sex with a 12 year old girl. I might let an 18 year old man do it with a 13 year old girl, but beyond that, I would ban it. We just can’t let men screw these Lolitas. Almost no modern society allows that. You want grown men picking up their 13 year old girlfriends from the local junior high? Screw that!
For 14 year old girls, I would be a little more lenient. I would let men up to age 20 have sex with them. Beyond that, sorry, but nope.
I read Chagnon’s book at university for a Social Anthropology course I took. Great book! Those Yanomamo men above are hebephiles or ephebephiles. That seems to be culturally constructed in their case because evidence from our labs does not line up with that at all.
In the endless lab studies we have performed, men become increasingly aroused by females from little girls -> Lolitas -> teenage girls -> grown women, especially young women.
In our society, men don’t feel that women in their late teens or 20 years old are “old.” We feel that they are at their absolute prime in attractiveness.
assface: Obviously what the market really wants is girls under 18.
The evidence from lab tests shows that this is false. However, there is the illegal or taboo factor which drives a lot of men towards jailbaits. A big part of the turn-on is that they are forbidden, illegal, or taboo. Making a sexual behavior taboo often gets a lot of men aroused by it. People want to be bad.
However, if we allowed porn with jailbaits on the Net, even 16 and 17 year old girls, it would be a disaster! The day after the law passed, the porn sites on the Net would be flooded with ads for 16 YEAR OLD GIRLS!!!! and 17 YEAR OLD GIRLS!!!!! I do not want to live in a society flooded with porn involving minor females. Just forget it! No no no no no no no!
The penile tests in the lab are excellent science, and they get replicated all the time. They always come up with the same findings, so I don’t think the tests are fake.
You can also do eye dilation tests, and there’s no way to fake that.
Sure, men say they want 18 year old girls, but evidence from labs shows that all women from 18-24 are equally attractive to men. Also men are extremely attracted to 25-29 year old women, though not quite as much as to 18-24 year olds. As mentioned, there’s a pretty serious drop-off in female attractiveness to men at age 30. Sorry ladies!
The men sequester those girls away at 12-13 in South America, but the marriage may not be consummated for a while, say age 15. The anthropologist who lived with the Yanonamo sequestered his girl and married her at age 12, but he did not consummate the marriage until age 15. However, sometimes the men start having sex with those girls at 12-13.
12 year old girls getting pregnant is disastrous. Pregnancy is also quite dangerous for 13-14 year old girls. It can tear them up inside. I recommend that all 12-14 year old pregnant girls abort their babies. By 15, the pregnancy is pretty much safe or at least it won’t rip them up inside.
assface: The man just isn’t that bright, and that’s the norm for sexologists. The whole field of sexology is filled with third-rate intellects who went into it because that weren’t smart enough to become proper scientists.
Sexologist Ray Blanchard is a colleague, and I have corresponded with him before about sexology because it’s a big interest of mine. One thing I will say is that he’s one Hell of a smart man!
I just think there is just a lot of bias going on. Guys like Blanchard and Seto think Hebephilia is a mental disorder and are quite biased towards making it seem to be very abnormal behavior in order to promote their theory.
There’s also a seedy element to the debate. If you don’t believe me, just utter the word “hebephilia” in a crowded room and watch the room clear out. That’s if someone doesn’t punch you in the face first. People are wildly emotional about this subject, and 95
The psychiatrists saying that Hebephilia is not a disorder or is not even abnormal are taking a risk. They will be called pedophiles, sex offenders, and child molesters, and they will be accused of “promoting” hebephilia, which probably isn’t even possible as it seems to be a developmental matter that is set in the womb before birth.
Can you “promote” blue eyes? Blond hair? Short height? Tall height? Wide feet?
See how dumb that is? You can’t promote hebephilia more than any of those other things because all of that is set up before birth. No one has a choice about any of those things. Hebephilia, like those things, is not a condition that can be acquired after you are born.
Both Seto and Blanchard probably also think that saying Hebephilia is not disordered is a creepy statement, though being scientists, one wonders how much that clouds their vision, as they’re supposed to be above that. For instance, Seto has done some superb work on pedophiles showing that it is a developmental disorder and that these men cannot help it. As long as they do not offend, they should be left alone. You can hardly hate a man for something he did not choose!
To show you how toxic the debate is, I’ve been pounded all over Hell and high water for simply reiterating the official position of the American Psychiatric Association that hebephilia is not a mental disorder and it’s not even abnormal. I’ve been called every name in the book, threatened, and turned in to the police and FBI so many times I can’t count them just for following psychiatric science on this matter,.
There was a big hebephilia debate going on among psychiatrists when they were making DSM-5. You can read the debates online. One group said it was a disorder, and another group said it wasn’t. The group saying it wasn’t was led by a psychiatrist named Dr. Francis. Psychiatrists Seto and Blanchard were on the other side. It’s really interesting reading if you are interested in this stuff.
*Despite all the lies you read about me on the Internet, I’m just a regular old teleiophile like 77
The lab tests are shit, don’t you get it?
Nope! They’re just fine. It’s been proven endlessly. If they’re faking it, how to 26% and 21% of normal men end of pedophilic and hebephilic respectively. The tests have been validated by science and they always come up with the same findings. So they’re replicated. If they were fake, we wouldn’t get the same findings over and over.
Now, me personally, I finally realized that I prefer females starting around age 17. Better yet, 17 1/2. That’s almost at the 18-24 year old range that men are most aroused by.
Below that, 15-16 year old girls, and I’m just not as interested. 14 year old girls even less. 12-13 year old junior high girls are ok if I look at groups of them up close, but individually, they’re pretty much meh. They look like little girls.
Actual little girls don’t do much for me at all, but I do like those long legs on 11 year old girls because those look like the legs of a woman. 12-14 year old girls also have those really long, out of proportion legs.
That’s because different parts of the body grow at different rates. The first part of a girl’s body to start looking like a woman is the legs. Then the face, the breasts, the ass, etc. They’re not even completely filled out by age 16. They don’t get those skinny, curvy, full-grown bodies until 17 or 18. Around 19-20, the hips widen and you no longer have the skinny female with wild curves that you have at 17 and 18.
It’s a descending level of attractiveness, just as the studies predict.
AssFace is correct. This is not some disorder developed in the womb. This is just a male lizard brain response to beauty and sexuality, in the same way that kittens are cuter than cats, and people wish they stayed kittens on an aesthetic basis. It is society’s problem that this is taboo and people cannot admit the truth, brainwashed by the scolds if you will.