Warning: Long, 18 pages.
This is a comment from Bumface, a regular commenter from the UK. He’s a bit of a volatile fellow, but I’ve kept him around anyway because he’s also nice sometimes, and he can be interesting. I might as well point out right now that it is more than obvious to me that Bumface is a hebephile, that is, he is preferentially attracted to girls in the pubescent 11-14 age range.
However, the American Psychiatric Association has stated flat out that Hebephilia is not a mental disorder. They also said that it’s not even abnormal! The APA said that hebephiles who act on their feelings and have sex with girls in that range would in most countries be called criminals. So if you just have these thoughts, it’s nothing, but if you act on them, in most places, you would be a criminal.
I’ve done some research and hebephilic attractions are very common in men. In fact, 1
I suspect this is what most such men do, and actually, I would advocate this for anyone in this category. Nevertheless, there are hebephiles who have no attraction to girls over 15! I’ve been on their forums. People post photos of 16 year old girls and the hebephiles start yelling, “Ew gross!…No grandmas!,” etc. It’s actually pretty hilarious. That doesn’t strike me as real normal behavior, but I’ll defer to the APA on this one.
I was just reading the hebephile forum for research interests, and there’s nothing illegal on there anyway. At any rate, going to those forums is no big deal. All open pedophile/hebephile forums are about half pedophile/hebephile haters cursing them and saying they’re going to prison and half pedophiles/and hebephiles. In other words, those forums have as many pedophile and hebephile haters as pedophiles and hebephiles.
For self-disclosure purposes, I’m actually a teleiophile. Teleiophiles are maximally attracted to mature females aged 16+. The vast majority of straight men are teleiophiles.
7
Everyone screams about men having sex with 13-15 year old girls and of course about men having sex with children under 13. Just reading around, there sure seem to be a lot of men engaging in this behavior. Perhaps a good explanation for why this sort of thing is so ubiquitous is that so many of us men have strong attractions to younger girls. Why do we do this all the time? Because young girls turn us on so much, that’s why! Seems like the best explanation for me.
I’m a teleiophile, although I’m also very attracted to 15 girls. As we go down from there, I start getting less interested, and it looks more and more like a “little girl” to me, and I’m not into that.
In particular, 13 and 14 year old girls have what I call “little girl faces,” or baby fat in their cheeks. I don’t like that. Among 15-17 year old girls, the more she looks and acts like a grown woman, the more attracted I am to her. The more she looks and acts like a kid, the less I’m attracted to her. I suspect that my desires are typical for teleiophilic men.
Given that 2
If we truly are going to “kill all pedophiles” as everyone recommends, we will have to kill 24 million men. I’m sorry, I’m not willing to condemn 24 million of my fine brothers to death just because a bunch of feminist screechers and moral hysterics demand it. I’m willing to let all these guys slide as long as they only remain thought criminals. If they molest little girls, they need to be incarcerated, as in many cases, the girls get harmed. Even where the girls are not harmed, I don’t wish to live in a society where men can molest little girls.
Since there is no evidence that a majority of girls are harmed over the long term by being molested, I have mostly an ethical, not psychological objection to child molestation. However, many are still harmed anyway, so I do in part have a psychological objection because you might hurt the girl.
About men have sex with 13 year old girls, I mostly don’t like it, not for any particular reason except I think it’s gross and weird and it leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
About men having sex with 14-17 year old girls, I don’t see the harm if it’s consensual, and I have no problem at all with it if it is legal, but US society doesn’t agree with me and regards this behavior as morally objectionable to the extreme.
Societies have a right to have whatever reasonable morals they wish. They are free to encode these morals into laws as they see fit. We must live in society. If you break these laws, you might be incarcerated. I don’t like to see my brothers behind bars. I’ve always recommended to all my male readers that they don’t break the statutory rape laws wherever they live because you might end up behind bars.
I also strongly recommend all my readers not molest little girls (under 13) because to me it’s simply immoral behavior. You can also hurt the girl and end up “behind gay bars” yourself for a really long time.
Everything factual I stated above has been proven by science and is straight up scientific fact. Yet if you say it, it’s such a hate fact that you will have a lynch mob at your door screaming “Pedophile!” in ten minutes.
As you can see, my views on adult-teen and adult-child sex are more than reasonable. It’s beyond me why these views have made me into such a pariah. I’m not advocating anything bad.
On a final note, I don’t completely agree with much of Bumface’s hebephilia defense below. Nevertheless, I concur with him that hebephilia is not pathological or even abnormal for that matter.
Hello, I’ve been reading some evo-psych and sexology, and I’ve come across some things I think are very wrong. I just want to explain what I think is wrong about these ideas. Most of what I say will probably just be ignored by people in the field, but I’ll say it anyway.
I’ve often seen it claimed in the Evo-Psych literature that the best females for men to go for in ancestral times were those in their late teens at peak reproductive value. Many people just nod their heads in agreement with this claim without knowing that this is not really how it works in the real world. In primitive foraging societies the girls are actually married off quite a bit younger than that. Most girls are married off by the time they’re 16, so focusing on girls after that age would obviously not have been the best strategy.
In order to stand a chance at monopolizing the females’ reproductive lifespans, the best females to go for are those just prior the onset of their fertility, not after it, and this is what we see happening in primitive foraging societies. The girls are usually married off, and the men start having sex with them a few years before they become fertile.
By getting a female slightly before the onset of her fertility, you can guarantee she hasn’t been impregnated by any other males and still has all her reproductive years ahead of her. The price you pay for doing that is that you’re going to have to wait several years before she starts giving you offspring, but it’s not a big problem.
I’ve seen some Evo-Psychs claim that women about 20 would have been the best for long-term relationships in ancestral times. Now, this is completely out of touch with reality. Girls in foraging societies usually start reproducing before they’re 20, so what these Evo-Psychs are saying is that the best females to go for would have been those that are already married off and up the duff by some other man in the tribe. Complete nonsense.
The best females to go for would have been those that weren’t yet married or starting to reproduce. The typical age of a girl’s first pregnancy in foraging societies is about the mid to late teens, so men would do best by aiming for girls under that age. If focusing on 20 yr olds is such a winning strategy, then how come we don’t see men in foraging societies using it?
Instead, we see girls get married off much younger than that, and it’s certainly not 20 yr olds that sell for the highest price in bride markets. It’s usually girls much younger than that. In a recent study into child marriage in Tanzania, they found that girls about 13 were selling for over double the price of 20 yr olds. If these Evo-Psychs are going to keep on ignoring real-world data like this, then they can’t call themselves proper scientists.
In his paper arguing that hebephilic preferences are maladaptive, Blanchard claimed that taking on pubescent wives would not be a workable strategy since you’d have to wait a few years before they’d start reproducing, but this argument is just more nonsense that ignores real-world data. We know the strategy works fine because we see it working.
It’s common practice in foraging societies for men to marry girls several years before they reach reproductive age. The most common age is about 14, but that’s only the age they’re officially married. The relationship often begins several years before that.
Sure, the men have to wait a few years before they start getting offspring from their wives, but it isn’t much of a problem and is easily outweighed by the advantages of getting a female who is guaranteed to have all her fertile years ahead of her. If it was as big a problem as Blanchard claimed, then it wouldn’t have become common practice to marry girls that young.
12 yo girls in HG societies on average live into their 50s, so claims that your 12 yo wife may die before she starts giving you offspring are more nonsense. Sure, she might die, but the chances are she’ll live all the way to menopause and be able to give you plenty of offspring along the way. Again, real-world data is being ignored. Two other ridiculous claims in his hebephilia paper are first about the fact that pubescent girls in foraging societies are often closely guarded to protect them from sexual harassment and rape, and second about the reproductive statistics from the Pume tribe.
Blanchard mentioned that pubescent girls are often guarded by their male relatives and claimed that this is somehow evidence that being attracted to pubescent girls is abnormal. Wait, what? If they didn’t have to be guarded that would be evidence that the men aren’t interested in them. The fact they have to be closely guarded just goes to show how much the men want them.
When a girl in a primitive foraging society comes into puberty and sprouts some perky eye-catching boobs, she has now entered her most attractive time of life, and all the men notice. She’s now a perky little Lolita, a young maiden, her body is tight and fresh, her boobs are pert, and her face is young and cute.
She is now at the age she where she will suffer the most sexual harassment and is most likely to be sexually assaulted or abducted by raiders who want to keep her for themselves. That’s why she has to be closely guarded at that age. By the time she gets to about 20 and has started reproducing, she’s past her peak, the men lose a lot of interest in her, and she no longer has to be closely guarded.
Her boobs have started getting saggy from breast-feeding, she has stretch-marks on her stomach, pregnancy has made her fatter, and her face has lost its youthful freshness and sparkle.
The risk of sexual assault follows the same pattern in our societies. Girls are most likely to be victims of sex crimes between the onset of puberty and the beginning of adulthood. The males in our species are focusing on the females just prior the beginning of their reproductive lifespan when their long-term reproductive potential is at its highest.
Another graphic.
Conversely, some interesting questions to consider:
1) How many adult women are attracted to teenage boys? How about 18 year old boys?
2) Are gay men more attracted to teenage boys than adult men? If he is a bottom, would he be more attracted to men than boys? If he is a top, would he be more attracted to boys than men?
3) Are lesbian women more attracted to teenage girls than adult women? If she is a bottom, would she be more attracted to women than girls? If she is a top, would she be more attracted to girls than women?
Older men are preferred for serious relationships. Many pornstars get into their MILF role but are married to an older man. “Older men treat me like a gentleman,” is often said by women.
I live by a football field. Many women like jocks their junior.
Biggest age gaps I see walking by are young looking Blacks with with elderly White women. Blacks tend to age better.
2.) Gay men are notorious for their attraction to young boys.
3.) Lesbians often want to look like handsome young boys like Arnie Grape. They idealize straight women and hope to convert them to lesbianism. Many will take any love they can get. I think a lot of them are just fluid opportunists and will definitely fuck guys, and more than a few times at that. Many are too ugly to attract guys, so they just go with other women. Lesbian couples often look alike. There’s less of an age gap than with gay men but lesbians are more likely to go for a younger woman than straight women are to go for a younger man.
They are very much women despite their appearance. Whereas gay men are often less manly, I swear the toughest butch dyke has soft feminine eyes. I’m not sure the top and bottom dynamic with them.
Is that subreddit Femaledatingstrategy?
There used to be another called Gendercritical. It was about radical feminists.
At least Gendercritical was Leftish and had some principles
FDS has a lot of things, but one that is more notable for me is how horribly ableist they are towards autistic men and even reach the level of eugenics, such as their view that we have high levels of autism today because women don’t know to select dates and end up marrying and reproducing with autistic men and we wouldn’t have autism if autistic men didn’t reproduce.
I’ve always wondered why autistic FDS’ers didn’t reprimand them like they do in Gendercritical, considering that not only do they view autism negatively, but ironically their notions are androcentric due to them considering autism to be mostly revolving and being centered about males, invisibilising autistic women.
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This morning I woke up with a nightmare about some TV news announcing that the Right had won in Mexico, along with something about Russia.
I know there are reasons for this, but having workers voting for the Right feels like when in the movies some character does something that is obviously extremely stupid and naive. Take the most common scenario, the protagonist has a very valuable relic or thing that would potentially endanger a considerable amount of people or even the world, and the villain has one of his loved ones as a hostage. They agree to do an exchange despite the benefit-risk ratio, and the protagonist always decides to go first, only for the villain to betray them once they give them the relic.
I think it has mostly to do with how one has seen such events countless of times (both the movies and Latin Americans voting for the Right), yet one feels they never learn, even if it’s against someone that obviously had a very bad record of being untrustworthy.
It also has to do how one side always have the conscience of what is better for their own interests, while the other is easily fooled.
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With your anthropological knowledge, i would like to know the different degrees in which female breasts are sexualized and what role (if any) they have in private lovemaking in the different cultures and societies that are not so widely known.
I think there was a tale about some anthropologists in some part of Africa that talked to the the native men about sex, and when some of the anthropologists mentioned how they sucked the breasts of their partners during sex, the Africans mocked them due to Mommy Issues. I don’t remember where the anthropologists were from, but they were probably Anglo anthropologists.
It’s worth mentioning that Anglos, especially Americans, have an almost fetishistic, baby-like fixation towards breasts even compared to other Westernized countries, or at least that’s how is perceived when Europeans mention public breastfeeding and nude beaches. The conversation probably was in the form of “Man Talk,” so it’s possible that the anthropologists either mentioned about sucking breasts pretty casually or maybe boastfully talked about it with an passionate way that caused the Africans to mock them.
There are several cultures where it seems that breasts are not sexualized on a daily basis, but it is unknown that they can be sexually aroused during sex. Sex is mostly a private thing, so getting to know the different sexual habits of an human group is always difficult.
We know that ancient civilizations tend to include them in lovemaking due to their depiction in both art and literature, even in books exclusively about how to have sex.
Cultures where girls and women hang around topless are usually thought to be not sexualized, but having data like yours on how they raped and sexually harassed girls and how it correlated with the presence of breasts would be pretty useful and give insight.
I’ve also heard that in some of those cultures, droopier breasts are preferred because they are associated with older women that have more wisdom and successful child reading, while perkier boobs signal immaturity. Yet your data contradict it.
These investigations would be mostly about non-Western countries that are relatively “uncontacted” and don’t have the same exposure to media as we do.
This was very informative and correlates with my experience pretty well (anecdotal as that might be). I started dating my husband in my mid-teens and he is almost ten years older than me. I’ve always thought that the prejudice against age gap relationships is upper class Whites trashing icky working class Southerners who marry young and a way for Americans and Europeans to trash those Muslim/brown people who often married young to avoid starvation.
I can see an issue with power imbalance and so forth, but the answer is to make women and parents less dependent on men for survival and not to call ordinary, largely consensual behavior nasty names because your rich, White Upper East Side family consists of career wymen who don’t marry until their forties.
Hey, thanks for coming! And no, I don’t hate women LOL, nor do I hate Jews LOL. My longest relationship was with a Jewish woman LOL. And she agreed with most everything I said about Jews. The only conflict we had was over Henry Ford. I have a soft spot for him, and she was a Jew from Detroit, so she hated his guts.
I really don’t like Israel though, sorry, in part because I’m a Leftie and also in part that it seems like those upper class Upper East Side White snobs beating up on a bunch of poor brown people and calling them uncivilized, analogous to your comment about the South.
Hell, I like women better than men. I’d rather hang around women all the time if I had my way. That’s getting hard to do though because at my age, I am pretty much persona non grata among the female race. They’re either cold but businesslike or they ignore me. Sometimes they glare at me.
When I was young, I was “the man who was loved by women.” Now, I’m “the man who is hated or ignored by women.” That’s why I’ve drifted towards Incel philosophy. It doesn’t represent my life at all. LOL my life’s been the opposite. But at this point in life, I am for all intents and purposes being treated by women something like those incel guys get treated.
Even if they are friendly, if I take the conversation anywhere remotely sexual, they get cold and change the subject or they literally leave and never speak to me again. It’s depressing as Hell because I’m an extremely sexual person even at my age, and ~1% of the population thinks I’m sexy, and 99% think I’m gross, ugly, and disgusting. I’m sure it just gets worse over time.
I really ought to hate women based on how they treat me nowadays, but I don’t want to, and also I had so much fun with them when I was young and handsome that I can never really hate them. It balances out.