Tulio: Are you familiar with Tim Pool? Would you say he’s Alt-Left? Also do you think Tulsi Gabbard is Alt-Left?
In a way, Tulio is brilliant. He has this knack of summing up whole complex issues in a sentence or two. He’s a genius at that. When the Alt Left first came out, Tulio said, “The Alt Left is just redpilled socialists!” That hit it so perfectly. However there are both liberal and Leftist wings and the left economics ranges from Keynesianism with a safety net to socialism and even communism and anarchism, though there are not many of the latter.
Yeah, Tulsi is Alt Left. So is Yang. So it Cenk Uighur, Kyle Kuklinski and the Young Turks. I just looked up Tim Pool, and yes, he would be Alt Left for sure. Who’s the comedian with glasses who works with Kuklinski? He’s Alt Left too. We’re out there.
There is also a movement called the Dirtbag Left that is Alt Left. It’s associated with Chapo Tree House, an internet radio show. That show would be Alt Left too. There are people called Bernie Bros, who supposedly sexist or at least antifeminist men who are Bernie supporters. They would be Alt Left, although we are opposed to sexism.
The Russian Communist Party would be Alt Left.
I really hate to say it but a couple of those mass shooters were Alt Left. The Christchurch shooter was very hard to categorize. He was not a typical rightwinger at all. Sadly, I’m afraid he was Alt Left. And the El Paso shooter was also Alt Left.
The way I see it is any time you have any sort of leftwing economics and rightwing or centrist on culture, it’s automatically Alt Left. In that case, Third Positionism, NazBols and even Strasserites would be Alt Left.
Obviously you can have very good and very bad people with the combination of leftwing economics and right or centrist on culture.
Really though, the official Alt Left movement would have to preclude the two shooters, Nazbols and Strasserites due to their racism. So the official Alt Left has some but not complete overlap with Third Positionism.
The whole problem is that culture has become completely married to economics and the left/right split. If you’re anti-Cultural Left, you are automatically rightwing and you go rightwing on economics. No exceptions. Now you can be rightwing on economics but left on culture. Those are Libertarians, and we are similar to them in some ways but not in others. Now if you’re left on economics, you must go left on culture. No exceptions.
Our movement got written up in some Polish political magazines and a prominent political scientist actually wrote an article on us. There is a Polish Left, but Poles tend to be rather conservative on cultural stuff.
Left on economics: Pro Cultural Left, no exceptions!
Anti-Cultural Left: rightwing on everything, no exceptions. This has been the bete noir of the Alt Left, our bugaboo. Every time we find someone who is anti-Cultural Left, they’re more or less conservative. Or they start out left on economics but as they pound away at the Cultural Left stuff, they start drifting further rightwing on economics and other things. It’s as if culture and economics are locked together somehow.
The exceptions are:
Pro-Cultural Left: Can be right or left on economics. Mostly left but there are a lot of Libertarian rightwingers too.
Right on economics: Can go either pro or con on Cultural Left. Libertarians go pro-Cultural Left.
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Some Cultural Left stuff is cool but not much. It’s all about – as I was saying – what’s important and what’s not. For instance, bathrooms for trannies and supposed sexism in video games are not important.
I’m not out to hurt nobody’s feelings, but tranny seems to be a choice/disorder, gay is a disorder, and bikini video games are just innocent fun for men.
Yeah, I’d say I’m totally a centrist on the culture. I try to look at this from a rational point of view.
I’m convinced gays for the most part don’t have a choice, particularly with male gays. I can’t hate someone for being something they had no choice in. I don’t want to dehumanize gays or make their lives miserable. If I see two men holding hands walking down the street, I couldn’t care less.
That doesn’t mean however that we have to consider it equally desirable as being straight. I don’t have any kids, but if I did, I would hope they turned out straight. But just saying that makes me a virulent homophobe in today’s climate.
I still don’t have a full grasp on transgenderism. I don’t hate or resent them, but I feel sorry for them. Nature gave them a bad deal. I can’t imagine how torturous it would be to wake up every day feeling like I was born in the wrong body. Nature is a bitch.
But I’ve been called transphobic on some leftwing forums because I said I’d refuse to date a transwoman. Their reasoning is that a transwoman is a still a woman, so not dating one for that reason makes me a bigot. That’s what it has come to.
Kaitlyn Jenner is not a woman. It’s a man that has been cosmetically altered to look like a woman. He isn’t a woman any more than Michael Jackson was White because he physically altered himself. It’s funny how the Left says a man that has been surgically altered to look like a woman is an authentic woman, but if a White person altered themselves to look Black like Rachel Dolezai, they are not authentically Black.
We need more political options in this country. I feel so suffocated by our current mono-dimension left-right spectrum.
If I was to say any of what I said above at work, I’d be fired.
That’s the Alt Left right there, Tulio. To the right of the Cultural Left and to the left of the Republican social conservatives. I agree with everything you say above. That group you are in called Redpilled Black Men would definitely be Alt Left.
I’d like to see a Black wing of the Alt Left. The Alt Left is too White. Because we don’t have any Blacks around to bounce our ideas off, I worry about our politics. It would be interesting to see what sort of a vision a Black Alt Left would come up with.
By the way, although I am a race realist, most of the Alt Left wings and the Alt Left masses rejected race realism. They’re not saying it’s wrong. But they’re not saying it’s right either. They’re just agnostic on the question and say they don’t want to talk about it.
Also the Alt Left is sort of a bake your own cake thing. My vision was, “Everyone form your own wing.” That’s not completely true but what I mean is that we have different opinions on different issues. Within a few hard red lines, we still have a lot of space to move around.
“Your” wing of the Alt Left would be your particular politics. Say we line up 1,000 issues. An Alt Left person goes down the line and states their opinion on each one. It’s no big deal if Alt Left people come up with different answers to those 1,000 issues as long as they don’t cross a few red lines.
RL, some of those people you name like Cenk Uygar and Kyle Kulinkski definitely seem left on the culture. I know that Cenk used to be right wing in his younger days so maybe he still has a few holdover conservative/moderate cultural views, but it seems these days he’s been consistently a cultural leftist.
I actually did read an article not long ago about the “Dirtbag left”. It was pretty interesting. The Dirtbag left wouldn’t have cared what Al Franken did years ago when I pretended to be grabbing a woman’s boobs in a photo. I wish we had some more of that. I think you’ll naturally find more of that with black and Latino men where machismo has not yet been stigmatized.
Sure I would love to get a lot of Black and Latino men on board with the Alt Left. We support masculinity and masculine men 100%. A lot of us support rather traditional values, including traditional sex roles, masculinity for men and femininity for women. A lot of us are straight. Most of us are happily cis-sexual.
And the Alt Left is ferociously pro-sex. We oppose the metoo, Puritan, Victorian, prudish, pearls clutching, sex-hating caricature that the Left has become. I mean we started the Sexual Revolution. In the 60’s we supported free love. Now look at the Left. They want to go back to the 1950’s…or the 1890’s.
Hell, the Trumptard Right is more pro-sex than the modern Left. We are also very much pro-men. We won’t tolerate any manhating bullshit. I don’t think we should hate women either, but that’s more of an individual choice. To be Alt Left, you have to like or love:
Men
Whites
Straight people
Cis people
The Left has pretty much declared war on all of these groups, which could be more or less defined as normal. Sure you can like women too. Of course you can like Black people. It’s no problem if you like gays or even trannies.
But we want to stake out a place on the Left in opposition to the Left’s White-hating, misandrist, straight bashing, and cis hating nonsense. Mostly we on the Alt Left want to make it clear that we do not hate any of those groups. They’re not evil or oppressors, not anymore anyway.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ssqjxt2m_Aw
Hey RL, just a bit off topic, I was recently reading that California when adjusted for cost of living has the highest poverty rate in the country and that it also has the most welfare recipients. The Right has been going nuts in the Trump era bashing California and called it a failed 3rd World state that looks the way it does because it’s controlled by Democrats. A lot of that is of course hyperbole, but there is a lot of struggle in California.
I’ve always found this argument a bit specious because there are 15 or so other states where Democrats control the governorship and legislature that don’t have the same quality of life problems. The Right will ignore of course that the majority of high-poverty states are red states.
But there is a question I’m wondering. Is the demographic change of California from majority White to now mostly Latino the reason for these economic problems? It stands to reason that if most of your demographic change is coming from immigrants of a poor country, it will make your state a poorer place.
And this has nothing to do with people voting Democratic per se. If tomorrow 10 million Central Americans immigrated to Nebraska I’m sure you’d see similar issues emerge.