Following on to Jason’s posts below.
People call my friends and I bullies (especially Jason). I wrote a few articles more or less saying that my friends and I were part of the 85% of kids who bullied a few of the “designated victims” at school. These victims got bullied because they were, frankly, complete weirdos or idiots or were not engaging in proper boyhood behaviors. They were freaks, weird freaks.
Some of my commenters got very angry over these articles. One was a parent. A Chinese woman who used to send me money all the time left the site in anger.
There were a few designated victims when I was a boy. I can think of maybe five boys from ages 10-13 who we bullied quite a bit. But 85% of the boys joined in with us.
Therefore, most normal kids bullied a few designated victims and these boys could not be called bullies in any way. It’s insane. How can you possibly make a case that 80-90% of young boys are “bullies” who we need to go to war against? It’s madness.
On the other hand, there was a small number of somewhat sociopathic, pre-delinquent boys, some of whom as teenagers almost seemed “pure evil” who bullied lots of boys outside of the few designated victims. They bullied anyone they thought was weaker than they were. So, sure, 10% of boys are bullies who need to be disciplined. But when you say 85% of little boys are evil bullies the word loses all of its meaning.
Look: here is the truth. Boys have always bullied other biys. Girls bully other girls. Kids basically bully each other. They probably do so all over the world and they have probably been doing so for as we back as we can study. In essence bullying is an innate feature of the process whereby a boy becomes a man. This has probably been going on forever all over the world too.
The thing is that almost all boys bully a few designated victims, and this is more or less normal. As they become adults, they usually stop bullying others in a few years. I stopped bullying at age 20 when one of my victims challenged me to a fistfight. At that time I thought and decided that I was just too old for this childish meanness.
As former bullies age into adults and parents, they all become fanatical anti-bullying activists, raging against bullying everywhere it rears its head. If they will admit that they used to be bullies, almost all of them will say they were wrong. As parents, these people will always say that all bullying is wrong. Useless “wars on bullying” are waged against human nature and the results are disappointing.
Bullying will continue into the forseeable future. Almost all boys will bully a few designated victims in more or less normal behavior. A few boys will be much worse and will be known as “the bullies.” Almost all of them will stop bullying in early adulthood. Then they will go on to become parents. After they become parents, they will say their childhood bullying was wrong, and they will wage furious pointless wars against some White Whale called Bullying.
Bullying is simply human nature. You can try to control it but I doubt if you can ever stop it.
15 thoughts on “Face it: Bullying Is Human Nature And You Will Never Stop It”
The worse case of bullying I saw in school lead to the victim becoming a pro-hockey player. A part of it is character building, like a father disciplining his son. Dayton Hypernova is so spoiled by his parents and delusional, he imagines he’s a bully victim constantly. People like this need constructive bullying.
I hate to say it but you’re right. Sadly, bullying does build character that is if it doesn’t nuke you altogether. I mean if you survive it, it builds character.
If you don’t it just damages you, and you often carry that damage around into your 20’s and 30’s where it continues screwing you up, typically in form of low self esteem. I have had a few clients in therapy who had chronic low self esteem as adults as a result of being bullied as kids.
I tried everything I could to fix them, but I have never been able to cure anyone of chronic low self-esteem. It’s like it gets hammered in the brain like cement. They say it can be cured, but I have never been able to cure them. I have made them a lot better symptom-wise, but the root cause of low self-esteem remained untouchable. I haven’t the faintest idea how to fix this problem. It seems intractable.
Building character is good, but then again, if the teacher’s weren’t such wimps to punish kids as they should be punished, they’re wouldn’t be sadistic bullying.
Light bullying could be good for kids, and seriously, teachers cannot punish that. But stupid punks – and I lived with one during his middle school years – that just won’t shut up (being a smart-ass) need a confrontation.
I see these kids over and over. They’re not really bullies as such, but they’re little wussy smart-asses, and they need a confrontation. They became that way normally cause of a domineering mother/wimpy dad.
You keep hammering away at this. You just don’t seem to get it. Kids sadistically bullying each other is going to go on into the forseeable future. You can’t stop it. Now I experienced some of this vicious bullying too. I don’t mean by my girl cousins and my brothers – we all fought with each other all the time and I don’t really care about that. In fact, I look back on it with rather fond memories.
But I also experienced some of the evil bullying by boys who were just bad kids. I could discuss a few examples. In one case, I was absolutely terrified. Another case happened when I was 16 years old! I would have to say that those were two of the ugliest and most traumatic experiences of my life. However, I am over all of that. I made it through.
And I didn’t get bullied too much because I wasn’t a serious outlier. If you are a halfway normal kid, you don’t get bullied a tremendous amount. You get bullied some by the bad kids but not by the fairly normal kids.
However, I am intelligent enough to realize that the traumatic bullying that I experienced is a part of human nature and we can probably never get rid of it. That’s all there is to it. And if you make it through all that crap, it does toughen you up a lot.
I’m all for childhood bullying and I did encounter a fair amount of it in my own childhood. I only draw the line at sexual abuse, and that’s where the problem is. Younger, weaker children in juvenile detention facilities are prey for older children.
So, when the SJW types want to criminalize bullying, I understand it from the perspective of children being sexually traumatized. Hell, if I were butt-fucked as a kid, I’d have grown into a sicko psychopath and murderous criminal. I’d be wanting to hate the world and all the people living in it and burn down everything. Another Seung Hui Cho, Anders Breivik or Timothy McVeigh, maybe. That’s what happens when boys get buggered.
I know this shit happens a lot in the militaries; that’s why I hate the armed forces. The armies and boot camps are a den for psychopaths and perverted minds. No normal person can imagine something as perverted as the Abu Ghraib video. The first time I saw those visuals, I was shocked.
Bullying is fine as long as everyone draws the line at sexual abuse. But can anyone really promise it won’t happen? Hell, I would’ve been OK being killed as a child but I shudder to imagine what’d have happened if just one of those older sickos was sick enough to reach for my private parts.
I don’t think getting privates grabbed or groped is a big deal, the problem is when it goes further than that. My ass was grabbed far more than my dick, I would get angry at men that did either. Hating fags was accepted when I was a kid and may have saved my ass. Now if kids are conditioned to embrace homosexuality, maybe even pedophilia, they have less defense against sexual predation.
Who grabbed your ass? Other guys? Jesus Christ man. No shit you would get angry at any guy who did that. Any man grabbing another man’s dick or ass needs to get hit, real simple.
How old are you if I may ask? I was a kid in school from 1962-1975, but I didn’t even know what homosexuality was when I was 10. I didn’t understand it at all, and I had no feelings that way, so I had no reference point. We bullied screaming 10 year old queens for being “fags.” We also played Smear the Queer where whoever was the “queer” on the hoppityhop would get wasted by all the other guys. But we didn’t really know what “queer” or “fag” even meant. To us it just meant an effeminate male.
By age 16, I knew what homosexuality was, as I was bullied for being gay once, even though I was not gay. A lot of straight men get gay-bullied and even gay-bashed. It’s quite common. Having experienced homophobia, including violent homophobes, firsthand, I have a low opinion of homophobes. I like gay men far more than homophobes. One problem I have with homophobes is that they don’t limit their attacks to gays. But I know what being attacked by homophobes feels like, and it feels really bad. I don’t think I want to subject gay males to that either.
So I may have known what homosexuality was between 1970-1975, for sure I did from 1974-1975.
And oh yeah, hating fags was totally accepted when I was that age. But there were also a lot of jokes about it, and a lot of straight guys would even joke that they were gay and jokingly ask their friends to have sex with them. There was also a lot of straight guys calling their friends gay in a macho, joking, non-hostile sort of way. It was sort of challenge.
Generally homosexuality was a subject of ridicule. The message was that if you were to engage in that activity, you would be doing the stupidest, most idiotic, most asinine thing ever. The whole world would laugh in your face. Just making it the subject of extreme ridicule was enough to make it permanently off limits to most guys.
Nobody beat them up but I got the feeling that if I ever did anything like that, all my friends would leave me. And I also thought that they should leave me if I ever did such a thing. Strong prohibitions like that tend to keep you from engaging in proscribed acts.
Of course males don’t turn me on, but that never stopped any male ever. A lot of straight men have gay sex, far more than you would ever realize. Men fuck anything. They’ll fuck a woman, a girl, an old lady, a little girl, another man, an animal. They’d probably fuck a hole in a wall if you showed it to them.
The oddest ass grab was a male relative, a pillar of our family. Tough old big man, if he were exposed, it would crush my family. I’m not scarred. I honestly chalk most of it up to being attractive and young – probably every gay and a lot of women wanted me. 36.
I’m not anti-gay but when they touched my ass I sure was. No flaming queen ever grabbed my ass. My male coworkers and surprisingly some women I know seem obsessed with fags, which seems unhealthy. Gays are no sacred cow to me.
Bullying is only a positive good – when it’s used against other bullies and incredibly spoiled children. That’s where @Robert Lindsay and I disagree. Otherwise, it’s simply something that happens and cannot be avoided. There’s simply no way to teach kids to be kind. Well, that’s the role of the parents – but they’re also assholes usually -and/ or incredibly naive.
I mean, look at the idiocy of school signs encouraging kindness. Do you think kids care about those signs?
Now, I disagree that 85 percent of boys jump on the “cheer bullies” bandwagon. However, it is true that often boys (and girls) are cowards. They could have stood up for weaker kids – but they don’t.
It’s all about disrespect- and @Robert Lindsay – being a teacher – should understand. In fact, the harshest measures should be applied to bullies by teachers – but because of the cultural left – oddly enough, teachers are too pussified to do anything meaningful.
My parents went completely crazy for years trying to get us three brothers to stop beating each other up. The fights went on for many years. They tried everything. I remember these repeated sessions at the dinner table where my father could gravely intone, “We failed! We failed as parents!” and my Mom would shake her head sadly. They were trying to guilt-trip us into ending our fighting.
We all just thought that was stupid. We thought fighting was just normal and we thought it was laughable that our parents thought they failed simply because us brothers fought all the time. We thought our parents were idiots. We didn’t even listen to them. They would have these guilt-trip sessions and we would go right back to fighting the next day.
Actually, my Mom has told me that the middle brother, B. is the one who picked on the younger brother, T., all the time. That’s where the wars were. B. picking on T and baiting him. T. rising to the bait and fighting. B. using that as an excuse to kick T.’s ass.
T. is still around me a lot and to this very day, he is still mad, 45-50 years later, about how we treated him. He has even forced me to apologize for how I teased and tormented him.
Honestly, B. is a bully. That’s been proven many times. In fact he has been called a sadist. Of course he went into law enforcement like so many sadists do. That way he could have an excuse to manhandle and beat up people a lot, which is what he did. Neither T. nor I were the bully types though.
This idea that parents can stop bullying and fighting is crazy or that bullying is caused by bad parenting is crazy.
Ha ha, well, I’m not sure what caused the fighting in my family. But the same dynamics are going on, and the main problem is one brother. He is very arrogant and full of himself, so I think past fighting might have been instigated by him.
So a very arrogant conformist brother, a laid-back party type brother, and a late sister who was an all-out rebel non-conformist (probably from being abused and bullied).
But I was too young to see much of the fighting. But NOW I am having extreme problems with the arrogant brother who now is fairly upper-middle class.
I have shown you examples of two kids who were bullied who completely shaped up – the crybaby and the total idiot nerd who acted like a retard. I knew them both later on at age 16 and 18 and the crybaby had stopped crying and the nerd was completely normal. I’m not sure if the bullying made them shape up but they weren’t doing their outlier behaviors anymore.
And yes, we bullied the local “mean boy,” who was frankly a psycho and a future serial killer. But all the bullying of him for being so mean just seemed to make him meaner and meaner.
I dunno if it is 85%. You keep saying that the kids who bullied were bad kids, and maybe 35-40% of kids were just bad. And they were even bad years later in high school.
The thing is that my friends and I were not part of the bad kids. We only bullied the few selected designated targets and we pretty much left everyone else alone. But we fought amongst ourselves too. We had dirt clod wars and berry wars with these hard green berries that got real ugly and mean. We would end up screaming at the other side, “We’re going to kill you!” when it was over.
So it’s not just the bad kids who bully. That’s crazy. Lots of kids bully. Even the good kids bully, but they usually only bully a few of the designated targets. They don’t branch out from there like the bad kids.
Now that I hear about your situation, I would not justify the bullying that you experienced. You were not a designated victim or a severe outlier. You were just a regular kid who got picked on by a gang of “mean boys.” That’s not what I was talking about. Those “mean boys” are bad kids, and yeah they are what we refer to as actual bullies. They probably just thought you were weak.
I wasn’t gay for sure. You’d have to be retarded to believe that. But the people they don’t like – are labelled the worst names anyway.
But, yeah, it’s like a prison – you have to be very “built-up” – if you’re not a person they like. But, seriously, a lot of people are not going to be people they like. Well, people don’t really “owe them anything” – so they shouldn’t conform to them.
The point is that a school doesn’t have certain kid’s names on it. They don’t own it – so fuck em.
It can be controlled by kids developing a “prison mentality” to avoid it. It can also be controlled by teachers – assuming they had the balls – which they don’t – to harshly punish bullies.