Zamfir: And why is IP supposed to be bad?
I just gave you a lot of reasons. It’s insane. All the IP’s can’t possibly be true. Only one of the conflicting IP’s can be true and the other must be false, or they must both be wrong. It can’t be true that Blacks are bad and Whites are good and also that Blacks are good and Whites are bad, etc. It’s crazy. Same thing with all of the others.
Basically these are all positions that are various forms of nonsense.
In particular, they are much too quite to call anyone who says boo about them a hater, to demonize their enemies du jour, and frankly to be paranoid.
Most people who criticize various races, ethnic groups or nationalities are not racists. Most men who criticize women are not misogynists. Most women who criticize men are not misandrists. Most people who criticize Jews are not anti-Semites. Most people who criticize Islam are not Muslim haters. Most people who criticize gays are not homophobes. Most people who criticize transsexuals are not transphobes.
So it’s just a bunch of thin-skinned paranoid haters who can’t take any criticism, all with different glorious identities and demonized enemies. I agree with gays hating homophobes, transsexuals hating transphobes, Jews hating anti-Semites, etc., but all of these people are paranoid crazies who think everyone is an evil enemy out to get them, they all have a huge chip on their shoulders, who can’t take any criticism, who think all critics are deadly enemies, and are frankly very narcissistic with inflated self-esteem.
When these qualities are present in a person, we generally say they are unhealthy or mentally ill. Generally they have a personality disorder. If these mentally ill people have the same qualities as these groups, then we say that these groups themselves are paranoid crazies who think everyone is an evil enemy out to get them, all have a huge chip on their shoulders, can’t take any criticism, think all critics are deadly enemies, and are frankly very narcissistic with inflated self-esteem are either groups of mentally ill people or perhaps the groups themselves are mentally ill.
Actual societal structures can become mentally disordered just as a person can. So all of these groups are more or less mentally ill groups full of mentally ill people. The people in the groups have personality disorders and the groups themselves actually have personality disorders!
IP people are crazy. IP groups, being full of crazy people, are crazy groups.
21 thoughts on “Alt Left: Identity Politics People and Groups Are Both Mentally Ill”
I guess they can’t all be true, if they’re all saying something like ‘My group is good and this other group is bad’ or ‘My group is the best and all the others are the worst’. But IP could be a reasonable political strategy even if only some versions of IP are true. Or even if only one version is true. Likewise, it can’t be true that socialism is the best system and also that capitalism is the best system; but it would be wrong to conclude that, therefore, economic-based politics is crazy and bad. Maybe the correct conclusion is that some kinds of economic-based politics is false and bad while some other kinds are true and good.
But never mind that. Let’s just stipulate that IP is the kind of thing you’re describing: it’s all about paranoia, demonizing people who disagree, hatred of other groups, etc. Then there is this other thing, which we’ll give a different name. I don’t know… Call it ‘rational self-interested group politics’ or something. This kind of politics has certain things in common with IP, but none of the stupid bad things you’re describing. For example, we’re not paranoid and we don’t demonize others. We tolerate disagreement. But at the same time, we care about specific human groups that we belong to. So, if I’m a straight white man, I notice that straight people and white people and men have certain interests that others might not share. And I notice that certain policies and trends are working against those interests of ours. So I want to do something politically to help out these groups that I belong to.
For example, I notice that affirmative action is really bad for my sons, and it seems unfair to me. I don’t think they did anything to deserve being shut out of certain jobs or opportunities. Or I object to some of the anti-white things they’re being told in school. I think it’s immoral and stupid. And so I get involved in some pro-white or pro-man political activities. (And no doubt people will call this “identity politics”.) What’s wrong with this? Seems totally fine to me. In the same way, Jews care about other Jews and the Jewish community so they raise money for their group and agitate politically for Jewish interests. Blacks do it. Asians do it. Mexicans do it. Gays do it. It’s just human nature: you belong to some community so you have a stake in it, you fight for it, and often that means you’re fighting against other communities who don’t want the same things. What’s the problem?
Thing is, affirmative action is dead in most of the US. It’s been outlawed by the courts. Some universities are trying to get around the ban, but it’s hard. And AA is dead at the level of all governments. There’s no more mandated AA in the US.
However, many corporations do have diversity goals and whatnot where they actively seek out people from certain groups in an AA fashion. But those are private organizations that can have any policy they wish to have.
How exactly did AA harm your sons especially as it no longer exists?
To say that AA no longer exists is legalistic at best. Almost all universities are still very strongly committed to ‘diversity,’ which in practice just can’t be achieved except by discriminating against whites (and Northeast Asians).
What happened was that the relatively clear and straightforward objective measures they had years ago got struck down, so they were replaced by vague ‘holistic’ measures that no one outside the admissions committee or the administration can ever understand.
I’ve worked in ‘higher ed’ so I also have some first-hand knowledge of this stuff. In my experience it goes on at all levels of the system, up to grad school and tenure committees. Right now Harvard is being sued by Asians on this kind of basis. Maybe they don’t call it ‘affirmative action’ anymore, but it’s exactly the same thing–just less honest and objective than it used to be.
And there’s no other way to explain the results. If you look at any objective measures that would correlate with academic achievement, either IQ scores or LSAT’s or GPA’s or whatever, these all predict massive ‘under-representation’ of certain groups in the universities, but that isn’t what you find. And then there’s hiring within the universities.
I know of way too many absurd cases to believe that AA doesn’t exist. I’ve seen non-Whites and women with essentially no relevant experience or achievements (PhD incomplete) get hired into high-level tenure stream jobs over white men with 10 fancy publications and years of experience.
It’s real. And wouldn’t it just be crazy to think that the academic community, who are the most fanatical about feminism and anti-whiteness, the most extreme supporters of AA, would not find some way to implement their values in their own institutions?
Or think of what DeBlasio wants to do with public high schools. The plan is to lower all standards just in order to get more Blacks (or whatever) into the elite schools. The Asians are mad. I don’t know if that should be called AA. It doesn’t really matter. It’s clearly just a continuation of the same policies that have been in place for half a century now, which have the effect of putting under-qualified Blacks and other non-Whites (and non-Asians) into positions that would have gone to other people under normal meritocratic standards.
A few things.
One space only between sentences, please. It used to be two spaces, but it is going back to one space, and I prefer one space.
Please capitalize all the races. I’m sure you will agree with me that our White race is a great race – this is actually what I believe even though I am not pro-White. The Asians are another great race of our world. And the Blacks are a great race even if only in the sense that they are very important on this planet, aside from being the origin of all of our selves, much of our cultures, and all of our languages.
Just cause someone got in an easy way doesn’t mean they suck at something necessarily. However. the assumption would be very hurtful to someone who did such a scenario.
Anyway, on the other side, and nobody has discussed this, there are qualified people out there who simply don’t have cash, guts, or connections to get jobs and education. Therefore, they will never make a contribution to society.
This person feels like he cannot express white identity politics. Yet, in Tennessee, my home, loudmouths have been shouting this crap ever since I was in elementary school (1980s). So where is the persecution? Or I guess it was never persecuted in the South!
So I say white IP has always been a thing in white conservative areas as all thru history – so I find it funny when I hear about “persecuted whites” OH, cry me a river 😆 !!!
If AA is banned then what are people bitching about honestly? But I do think it is.
LOL they are getting around the law with a bunch of sneaky bullshit, haha.
Again, this is true, but you have to talk about proportion.
If 90% of minorities yet only 0.9% of Whites subscribe to IP, then you can’t just say ‘haha it’s equal, both sides are bad’……..
or say ‘Trump is a nazi’ for a deportation policy only marginally different than his Mulatto predecessor, only difference being their race (trump has many real flaws that get overlooked due to that nonsense)
What!? This child separation bullshit is only marginally different from Obama’s? Bullshit. And Trump’s deportation policy is not only a bit different from Obama’s. Obama mostly focused on deporting illegal alien criminals.
Now I am not exactly sure what that meant. I think it meant that if they were convicted in a court, they would just be deported instead of serving time. He might have also gone after illegals with criminal convictions. Someone will have to check on that for me. Yes, Obama deported a lot of illegals, but they had all been convicted of crimes.
Trump instead has gone after all illegals. And that is very different. I support it, but it’s different. Also he has tossed in a lot of really nasty and unnecessary language surrounding these illegals. I live with these people and they are NOT particularly violent.
The violent ones are their kids. The illegals mostly keep their heads down and don’t cause trouble because they don’t want to get deported. They are NOT dangerous or a menace or any of that shit. Sure a few of them committed crimes, but some Whites commit some crimes too.
Also Obama did nothing like this child separation bullshit. That’s a lie. If the kid was at the border with an adult who was not his parent, they were separated of course. I don’t believe that asylum seekers were imprisoned though. That’s new.
He has seriously ramped this stuff up.
It IS all the same. And I’m not even sure if Trump is White IP. White IP is American Renaissance. Trump sounds like that? But White IP’s sound exactly like Black, Hispanic, gay, trans, men’s, Jewish, women’s and all the rest of the fuckheaded IP tards.
IT’S ALL THE SAME WAY OF THINKING. IT’S ALL THE SAME STUPID, BONEHEADED, MONKEY WAY OF THINKING.
It’s NOT different.
If you think like that you’re not a human. You’re a Goddamned MONKEY.
“IT’S ALL THE SAME WAY OF THINKING. IT’S ALL THE SAME STUPID, BONEHEADED, MONKEY WAY OF THINKING.
It’s NOT different.”
Yes. But here’s what you do:
SJW: White Males are oppressors who must be killed.
Most Anti-SJWs: That’s fucked up! Let’s judge individuals.
You: Both of you are “monkeys” into IdPol.
This is nearly verbatim.
You don’t just get to say https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/315/484/8fe.jpeg
It’s true of basically all White Nationalists, Nazis, Incels, and even Evangelical Christians. But you can’t just make these sweeping judgements and not get called down on it.
SJW: White Males are oppressors who must be killed.
Most Anti-SJWs: That’s fucked up! Let’s judge individuals.
You: Both of you are “monkeys” into IdPol.
That’s not true! It’s not “IdPol” to be anti-IdPol lol. How can it be?
The joke of MRA fucktards is that they say they are anti-SJW and anti-IdPol. LOL, but they are just another kind of IdPol! Can’t they see this?
Sure I am anti IP, but I am going to attack IP from an anti-IP standpoint. I am not going to form my own retarded ass IP to attack “IP.”
And there’s not much difference between MRA’s and SJW’s. SJW’s are just IP’ers who accept lots of types of IP, but then they reject other IP’s as somehow invalid. Really SJW’s ought to let MRA’s into the SJW Game but they cannot because men are an oppressor class and hence their IP is invalid and oppressive automatically. Only the IP’s of oppressed groups are valid. If you listen to the rhetoric though, MRA’s act like SJW’s and use the same language and psychological techniques.
MRA is IdPol for MEN. Yet MRA’s say they hate IdPol. LOL.
PS I am a bit of an MRA myself even if I realize most of the movement is hopelessly fucktarded. I am more of a Male Sexualist and an anti-feminist actually. But I do identify as an MRA or even ultra-MRA or brosocialist sometimes but Hell if you will find me on those forums.
I am more ANTI feminist than PRO Men’s BS. I don’t really care about the MRA victim checklist. Plus I think it’s pussy for us men to say we are oppressed and the wimmins are keeping us down and beating us up (men are victims of DV!) and raping us (LOL) and oh woe is me we mens have it so bad. It’s pussy. Suck it up, man. Man up. Being a man is tough. If you can’t hack it just wuss out like all the numales and male feminists or if that’s not enough you can always just transition lol.
What are you talking about, man? I AM an anti-SJW. I am NOT against anti-SJW’s for Chrissake. We agree. They’re fucking retards. No problem now.
My point is SJWism is bullshit because it is IdPol, not because it is some particularly retarded form of IdPol. And how you fight IdPol by forming some other stupid IdPol is just beyond me.
Or is it some IdPols are ok but others are crazy or something?
Evangelical Christians are nuts, but it’s not IdPol. It’s religion, like hardline Islam.
Incels aren’t really IdPol. PUA’s aren’t IdPol. Male Sexualists are not IdPol.
Nazis ARE IdPol.
Hint as to whether you are dealing with IdPol or not. Does it have that basic retarded IdPol sound, feeling and rhetoric about it, including the fanaticism, the shrieking, the navel gazing, the solipsism, the narcissism, the paranoia, the focus on the enemies, the obsession about being hated, the love of being a victim and all the rest of the horseshit?
Well then it’s not IdPol. Groups have a right to defend themselves you know. It would just be nice if they were not so fucktarded about it.
Yeah. a lot of this is favoring your own family – even when it’s ridiculous. It’s like some dad favoring his son, who in reality (the son), is a bullying asshole.
In other words, no matter what our family does, we will side with the family!
Not sure if it’s 1 percent. In the south, all sorts of dads and the like don’t want their daughters dating blacks etc., so they indoctrinate them with the most reactionary crap. Anyway, I don’t think it’s Naziism but it’s enough to get their families to ignore the more disturbing sides of Trump and the alt-right.
So it’s “dad’s fearing a black or Mexican son-in-law and fear of trannies, gay rights”
As I’ve said 679 times, Jason, the dividing line for Red-State deplorables isn’t race. They simply dislike outsiders regardless of race.
Lots of New York Jews, Dagoes, and Blacks in the media literally pretend to be rednecks for ratings.
This is why they are so susceptible to manipulation.
Breitbart is run by California Jews pretending to be Protestant rednecks.
It would be comical if it weren’t so pervasive.
I’m sure TR@SH could explain it better than me.
Well, this is funny cause :outsiders’ are rushing into deplorable areas! For instance, my home of Tennessee is being invaded by white Californians! But while it might change the politics, it’s good for the economy. In other words, deplorables will find more employment.
Yeah, you have a point. They hate opinionated outsiders the most, not those of different skin color, sexual orientation etc.. But to be fair, the deplorables are highly opinionated on social media, but they cannot take the same coming from opposition opinions!
This is sort of off-topic but Protestant rednecks are basically spouting an opinion based on a false religion. What I mean is the the “hell-fire” view of the Bible is based on a mistranslation. However, though, “hell-fire” fits perfectly with their judgmental hateful way of thinking!
Also, another mistranlsation is about gays. So much of the verses were in reference to child molestation (boy prostitutes) so prevalent in the ancient world, not gays in general.