Casteism Compared to Ordinary Discrimination

Jason Y writes:

Certain families are in the USA, not East Indian but regular Americans, are divided into uppity and so, so and poorer groups. The poorer groups might live in a trailer, are more likely to smoke cigarettes and do drugs. So the question is, “Why criticize India, when people in the USA divide themselves harshly by caste, simply cause those who don’t do illegal drugs, smoke cigarettes, or are involved in a rough culture, cannot mesh well health worshipping Yuppie types? Conflict in inevitable. Have you ever been around real Yuppies or whatever they’re called? Well, for one thing, they’re incredibly bossy and preachy. They try to parent even other adults like they’re not of sound mind when they are. They’re into overkill on parenting, not even letting kids drink soda or play video games, also controlling all their time so that the kids cannot even breathe. 😆

I haven’t met too many yuppies who were as insular and uppity as those Gujaratis. I mean they will not even talk to a non-Gujarati as far as I can tell. How many yuppies are like that. There is no casteism in the US. In fact, all racial discrimination is illegal and the US has a department that goes after job discrimination and if your business is big enough, believe me they do go after this. Also housing discrimation is illegal in the US, however, the funds have been gutted for this. The US is one of the least racist multicultural countries on Earth. Name some other multicultural countries that have less racism than the US. I am waiting. You cannot compare casteism to much of anything else on the face of the Earth. It is quite different. The only comparison might be the Jim Crow South or Apartheid South Africa or maybe Israel. I want you people on here to tell me about some other countries where any sort of racial or ethnic discrimination is anything close to casteism. I cannot think of any right off the bat. The situation of Koreans and Burakamin in Japan is not good, and the Buraku situation is basically a caste one, but is it anything like caste in India? PS. You cannot use caste in Pakistan, Nepal and Bangladesh to compare to caste in India as it is all the same thing. The Shia are not treated well in Bahrain and Saudi Arabia, but is it close to the casteism of India? Yes there is discrimination against Whites in South Africa, but does the situation of Whites resemble that of Dalits? There is severe discrimination against Haitians in Dominican Republic, but is it as bad as Indian caste? There is some pretty serious discrimination against Muslims in Myanmar right now that is on the level of casteism perhaps. The Pygmies and Albinos are treated horribly in Africa. Perhaps that is on the level of caste in India. Yes there is discrimination and racism against Indians in Chile, but is it on the level of Indian caste? I think not. There is similar but much worse discrimination against Indians in Peru, but it’s mostly the Whites who do it, and it’s not as bad as Indian caste. Also the new President is an Indian and he doesn’t support this discrimination at all. I would agree that the slaves in Mauritania and other parts of Africa is a very similar situation to casteism in India. In fact, Dalits may have it better than African slaves. This whole Indian line of saying that “all nations have caste” is just insane. The Indian caste system goes far beyond whatever sort of racism and discrimination exists in most parts of the world. There’s just no comparison. I would also like to point out that Jason Y here, a liberal, is running interference for and whitewashing one of the most vicious and evil systems of discrimination on Earth. That’s not very liberal of him.

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35 thoughts on “Casteism Compared to Ordinary Discrimination”

  1. I haven’t met too many yuppies who were as insular and uppity as those Gujaratis. I mean they will not even talk to a non-Gujarati as far as I can tell.
    To be fair to Gujaratis, the reason they happen to be such a close-knit community is because they seriously lack confidence in dealing with people outside their communities. It’s like permanently defining your boundaries inside a comfort zone which simply makes you incapable of dealing with outsiders. Think of Amish people, Top hat wearing Hasidic Jews or the Mormons.
    There are a few exceptions though, e.g. Kal Penn is a Gujarati but he is far removed from Gujarati culture, or Indian culture even. He’s as American as Apple pie and cider.
    I’ve spent a lot of time among Gujaratis and trust me, you don’t really want to get very close to them. It’s the whole Gujarati lifestyle which is greatly incompatible to yours. I have even been in serious relationship with Gujarati girls but eventually didn’t want to marry them. Their culture is that revolting.
    First off, almost all Gujaratis are vegetarians, especially the womenfolk but even the men. At least in their homes, they’ll never cook anything that has anything to do with meat. They also create a huge racket if you bring meat in their company. The very scent of meat drives them religiously crazy. Traditioonal Gujaratis wouldn’t rent their homes to people who consume meat.
    Then the insane religious superstitions. You’ll have to deal with those silly rituals day in and day out. Think of scientologists.
    Also, Gujarati cuisine is horrible.Let’s just put it this way, it’s not to everyone’s taste. Maybe an “acquired taste”. Too much sugar in everything. I’d rather choke on low-grade beef.
    What passes for “humor” and “fun” in Gujarati culture isn’t to everyone else’s taste either.
    Even in India, Gujaratis choose to self-segregate themselves from people of other states. And vice versa.

    1. Indians would blame Kal Penn’s characters on being raised in a Western culture although I do not know that any Gujarati could behave as stupidly in real life as his stoners.
      In any event, he is as distant from India as Tommy Chong is from China.
      Gujarati are the market-dominant minority of India. They are very good at business and making money and quite industrious. Essentially they are shopkeepers.

    2. Gujarati people have been moving around to trade or do business in other countries since antiquity. This is because the peninsula is close to the Arab gulf.
      Parsee people would deny not being 100% Iranian but might have a small degree of Gujji in their ancestry somewhere.
      Depending on what historical theories you believe, they may have originated in Georgia, Russia of all places in ancient times.

      1. Parsis are not Iranians anymore. They are the top most Gujju Brahmin- Baniya now except that Parsis are more urban and eat some meat. Have you ever heard Parsis complaining about casteism or denial of rental inspite of the fact that they do eat meat, much like Muslims or Christians. Having said that, urban Gujarat is heavily welcoming of all Indians now, with an exception of Muslims.

        1. VARUN You could not tell a Parsee from a Tehran tourist if saw one in Mumbai in Western clothes. Sorry but “Freddie Mercury” looked like a Persian, not a Cochin Nair.
          They would rather their daughter married an Iranian than an Indian male whether Shudra or Brahmin. Despite seeking refuge in India the truth is they have a low opinion of Indians which is why they did not totally intermarry with them.
          Parsee have nothing to do with Hinduism and know nothing about it (Or care) so I have no idea why you are associating them with Brahmin Hindus.
          Wealth is the only thing they have in common with Baniya castes which is probably due to the fact that they are quite intelligent, hard-working, industrious, supportive of one another etc.

        2. VARUN Parsee are genetically as Iranian as a Tehran tourist. Freddie Mercury did not look Indian, he looked like he was from Iran.
          I’m not sure what they would have to do with Baniya castes unless you believe the theory that all high-caste Indians originated in Iran somewhere at the dawn of time (Plausible).
          Why would Parsee complain about anything. They make good money and own businesses. They do not need, nor have much interest in Hindus or care how they are regarded.

        3. Exactly, Trash. You run into the same confusion that many Indians, including myself, have experienced. Hope you know the difference between a Parsee and an Indian Iranian (the former came to Gujarat between 7-8 century and latter being recent migrants 19-20 century). Hence Indian Iranians are identical to Iranians, well built, tall etc. Most Parsees have picked up local south Gujarati women during last millennia, though patrilineally they are close to Iranians.
          Then there is another angle. I am from a Brahmin caste from the same area, i.e South Gujarat. So thanks for mentioning Freddie. In my caste, we too have Freddie look-alikes. What’s more. We are probably the only Gujarati Brahmins to perform goat sacrifice until 18th century. 20% of my caste members share greenish Hazel eyes while the typical strong featured Australoid Brahmins looks prevalent in many original Gujju Brahmins are nearly absent in my caste.
          And our caste affiliation is disputed. Some thought we are warriors. Others thought we are peasants or natives. Then how the hell do we look Southern Europeans?
          So two theories were proposed. Note that South Gujarat also had two Portuguese colonies. So we either mixed with Parsees or the Portuguese, or they mixed with us.
          I will let you be the judge. There were plenty of famous Indians from my tiny caste. Give me some time. I will post you some links of famous Indian actors etc. (all from my caste). Decide whether we are Parsees or Portuguese or original Indo-Aryans (with some native Indian mixture ofcourse).

        1. The above is partial list, Trash. There are many more celebrities from my caste, in case you can’t decide on our affinities. I am pretty certain that we do have either, 1) Iranian or 2) Portuguese ancestry. We were farming Aristocats of South Gujarat, so we would not retain any Europoid phenotype by 12-15th century. In fact, the so called fair-skinned Indians are also recent migrants from Iran who intermixed with early Indo-Aryans who must have become very dark by 5-7th century AD. In short, today, ancient Indo-Aryans have been subsumed within Dravidians. And Iranians have taken over with lots of Portuguese maternal ancestry in western parts of India. I mean, all our terms for kitchen household appliances are Portuguese, like cavi (key), almari (wardrobe), attachy (suitcase) etc. It means we had Portuguese mothers, quite a few of them. And these North Indians are Iranians.
          This theory also explains the surge and vigor of modern India. By 11th century, India had completely fallen pray to Muslims who were biggest thicken heads. How did those mighty Aryans fall prey to this half-caste Arabs first and then to European? And today, how is this backward Africa-like India making huge strides? How are there many more Europoid looking castes than there were a thousand year ago? How did low castes look more and more Caucasian? How did Indo-Aryan languages only diversified in last thousand years (before that it was either Sanskrit or some Dravidian).
          All these questions can be answered in one theory. There was strong injection of neo-caucasoids both in North and South. These main neo-caucasoids are 1) Georgians, 2) Iranians, 3) Portuguese. This is also why many lowly castes look Caucasian as well. Think famous actress Aishwarya Rai who is a green-eyed Dravidian. How did Dravidians retain Green eyes after 8000 years of intermixing with Australoids? With the advent of New hordes of Europeans, there was also a restructuring of castes. Hence we see so many new castes with Europoid features. Yet, none of them could speak Sanskrit. Just look at those ritualistic Brahmins. They indeed look more indigenous as they were the ones who were trained by the original Aryans in 1000 BC.
          Indeed, some of my caste members may be those well trained Aryans, but we too had lots of Europoid injection in last 1000-1200 years. Hence we speak a tounge heavily influenced by both Iranian as well as Portuguese.
          Then there are Goans who claim that Portuguese were not exactly colonials as they fully assimilated with Indians like true settlers but unlike British colonists.

    3. Most of them do not want to get close to anybody else so it is a mutual feeling.
      But who wants some Jat or Dravidian to get into their face?
      I’m a Gora so this is my own opinion.

  2. SHI Kal Penn is a clever Gujarati who has found a way to make money from brand marketing a particular character (The Idiotic Drug Addict) to Goras who can be made to pay to watch him.
    Like most Gujaratis he is selling something he himself did not create. Its a blatant rip-off of a formula invented by a Chinese Irish Canadian and a Mexican. He shamelessly ripped it off.
    Penn is a typical case of a clever Gujarati who is good at marketing/selling a particular brand to paying customers.

  3. Yes, I agree. Even in India, Gujarati people are hard to find outside Gujarat. They don’t mingle and do not welcome others in their land. Gender roles are very clearly defined in most Gujarati families. And they(most) are very very money-minded people.
    ” Dalits may have it better than African slaves.”
    It’s now that Dalits have it better but mostly in big cities, where class discrimination is more prominent.
    “all nations have caste”: No, but almost all countries have some or the other group of people (even among the native population) who are treated badly than the rest. e.g, Gypsies in Romania or Burakumin in Japan.
    Well if I had to choose between racism and casteism, I would rather choose racism. Period.

    1. VID has summed it up himself. Muslims regard Hindus as being helpless cowards and Hindus respond by cleverly marginalizing them in business and politics.
      I’m not sure that if Muslims ran India it would be a great thing or India would be any better off. Brahmans are quite clever deal-makers and some of this trickles down to Muslims and lower-caste Indians.

  4. Dear Friend,
    The caste system has been illegal in India for 70 years. Can you name a more multi-cultural, multi-ethic country in the world than India? It has 22 major linguistic groups and 500 minor languges
    Sujay Rao Mandavilli

  5. The issue is how to deal with Indians on the street or in the office:
    1) Most real “Gora-haters” will not be Brahman or Parsee. These folks have been doing pretty well and are not interested in Nationalism which is a lower-caste land-owner preoccupation.
    Follow their example of just ignoring not speaking to lower-castes.
    2) Muslim Indians will harbor dislike for Goras because we do not wear burkas to a beach. They are no different from Arabs in this respect. It’s religious disapproval.
    3) South Indians feel ashamed for being black Dravidian or at least insecure.
    4) Lower-caste Indians are obsessed with white women mostly from a diet of porno (Though Sahara Knite and other Indian women have gotten common in the game) and distorted ideas about “freedom”. Russian prostitutes make a fortune in Dubai or Mumbai for this reason.
    5) Marry the Indian girl and marry the family.

  6. The Caste system has been illegal in India long before the days of Martin Luther King. We have had affirmative action for lower-caste Indians for decades. Did America have that?
    Sujay Rao Mandavilli

  7. I’m not sure how much the Affirmative Action has done for low-caste people although I am sure a few success stories exist.
    I see few of them living in nice houses in Andheri.
    This of course is only the impression of a Gora on the street who silently watches and listens.

  8. Well, East Indian discrimination could be massively worse, but it’s difficult to point fingers when your doing the same thing, at least somewhat.
    Generally speaking those of different groups don’t want to hang with each other much cause of different values, and ironically, race isn’t involved sometimes. For instance, a black health Nazi yuppie would prefer a white health Nazi for marriage vs some poor black lady who chain smokes, does crack, and buys the most unhealthy food at the grocery store (or fast food on a regular basis).

    1. Yes, but as you complained about in the other thread, the Health Nazis WILL interact with everyone else, if only to tell them how to live their lives.
      True Casteism would be an invisible electric fence and a Cone of Silence separating them.
      Besides, didn’t you just say that Bad Boys were attractive, regardless of class?

      1. Yes invisible Jim Crow exists between Yuppies, poor whites and blacks, Asians, Mexicans, but that doesn’t mean it should be law, not by a long shot. In general, the difference between some groups is so great, that they will not, nor it might be argued they should not, co-exist with each other.

      2. Sorry for double post, but health Nazis will interact with some, telling them how to live their lives, and in many cases they’re just ignored. Especially poorer whites and NAMS would ignore them, assuming they would ever be around them, which doesn’t happen often.

  9. I barely know my own caste. All I know is that I am neither a Brahmin or a lower caste. My son has absolutely no clue and I am sure he doesn’t care. There are states like Andhra Pradesh where Brahmins barely wield any power. They may actually be poorer than other communities. And I say this as a non-Brahmin
    Sujay Rao Mandavilli

  10. In case you didn’t know, Martin Luther King’s civil rights movement was largely inspired by India. Mahatma Gandhi Called the lower castes Harijans or Children of God. Martin Luther King drew heavily on India
    Sujay Rao Mandavilli

  11. King drew on the non-violent protests to overthrow English occupation of India.
    Brahmans, Jains, Parsis and Syrian Christians in the South do not use violence to dominate the poor of India-this would be ridiculous.
    Moreover, they are simply clever at least in contrast to the rest of the population.

    1. Ok my tears are flowing for the unjust English occupation, but did these same Indian protesters have a heart for the untouchables? My guess is no. What goes around comes around. Treat people bad, you get treated the same.

      1. Winston Churchill remarked that the “first to arrive would be the last to leave” in reference to the upper caste.
        They took his advice and have been more successful in the West.

  12. It is not just that Mahatma Gandhi’s non-violent struggle against the British was a model for other Asian and African countries to emulate. Martin Luther King was also heavily inspired by Mahatma Gandhi. We have had many lower caste Indians who have made it to the top long before America had its first black president.
    (a) India’s constitution was drafted by B R Ambedkar a lowermost caste Hindu
    (b) We’ve had a lowermost caste President (President of India) in the 1990’s- his name was K R Narayan, A Sikh Prime Minster,- Dr Manmohan Singh A Tamil Finance Minster- P Chidambaram, The Present Prime minster (Narendra Modi) is a low caste Hindu, We’ve had Chief minsters of many states who were low caste Hindus. India’s constitution has prohibited discrimination on the basis of caste long ago- all citizens are equal here in the eyes of law irrespective of caste or religion
    Sujay Rao Mandavilli

  13. A Gora who wishes to avoid chest-thumping nationalists who would embarrassingly assert their Indian pride in inappropriate places would be best to ride more expensive classes on Mumbai trains and stay in wealthier Andheri suburbs.

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