Casteism: The Dirty and Dark Little Secret of US Indians

AB writes:

The reason why people get upset when you ask them about their caste is the same if a white man came to my country and I asked him about white supremacy. If you’re a modern white American who’s struggled against AA, haven’t been racist and someone confronts you about race relations – you’re going to rightly think it’s odd. Most Indians who go abroad are high caste, not because high caste Indians have it better like you think, but because they are discriminated against here thanks to “social justice” programs. They have more incentives to emigrate to a foreign land. I know plenty of non-high caste migrants who went to the US. I lived there for a wee bit.

You cannot possibly conflate White Supremacy in the US with Indian Casteism. Especially since the mid-1960’s, there is absolutely no comparison at all. It is like you are comparing two different planets. Yes there is racism, bigotry and discrimination all over the world, but Indian casteism is in a class of evil all by itself, down there with Tibetan feudalism, slavery in the Sahel, South African apartheid and Zionism. And actually it is a lot worse than the latter two. This is the typical attempt by high caste Indians to minimize casteism by saying, “Well there is racism all over the world. There is White supremacy in the US, for instance.” Sure, but it’s not the same thing.
We also an attempt here by this high caste Indian to claim that the main problem of caste discrimination nowadays is Affirmative Action and reservations for lower caste Indians. This is simply pitiful. It reminds one of the White nationalists of the US whining about how Whites are the most discriminated race in the US now. Or Jews, sitting on top of the world’s money pile, wringing their hands about the horrors of antisemitism while they frolic about in their Jewish palatial estates. Oh poor ruling class babies! You getting a little nervous in your mansions? Good!
There’s way more to American Indians reluctance to discuss caste it than that and the commenter knows this well. You can tell when you bring up the matter of caste with a high-caste Indian in the way he responds or doesn’t respond that you are delving into something that is so deep it is almost diabolical. It was as if I was inquiring into some deep and possibly evil secret matter.
Some high caste Indians, when I asked them about caste, didn’t want to discuss it all that much, but many of them got this almost evil gleam in their eyes as if I was delving into some very dirty and very awful secret. It was as if they knew full well that casteism was evil as Hell, but they didn’t care because they were benefiting from it. Their smiles were almost Satanic. These are people who are benefiting from evil, so in a sense, their religion is getting close to Satanism. And I do think that Hinduism is Satanic.
I don’t ask people what their caste is. I am not that stupid. I simply brought up caste. For instance, with Gujaratis, I mentioned that Gujaratis were merchant caste. Actually, I saw those diabolical smiles most often from those merchant caste Gujaratis. I do not know what it is with their caste or casteism over there, but there is something terribly wrong with Gujaratis in my country. We have a few of them in my town and they are pretty awful. The Sikhs act much better.
The Gujaratis keep very much to themselves, are obviously seriously Hindu religiously, and refuse to speak with non-Indian Americans. They’re assholes. Also they have a profoundly uppity air of superiority about them that makes them very unpleasant to be around. They also seem to be very much into money, which is rather sickening. Some of the women are beautiful, but they are hopeless as they won’t even speak to American men. The men are rather nerdy for some reason, at least as compared with hypermasculine Sikh men. I dislike the Gujaratis in my town. Lousy people.
I had a physician, and I mentioned his name and said something like his people came from some caste in Andra Pradesh. I didn’t even mention the caste, and it might not have even be a high one (actually I think it was some middle caste). He cut off the conversation abruptly right there and ended the consultation. Later I mentioned something about “coming from Andra Pradesh” and once again he cut me off very rudely.
I have another physician who is a Sikh. I have not discussed caste with him other than to say the Sikhs are sort of lousy because they practice caste when their religion forbids it. he had the identical reaction of all the rest of the Indians. He got this evil little smile on his face and he shrugged his shoulders like it was no big deal. I have brought up this matter with many Sikhs in the US. I said Sikhism forbids casteism but all Sikhs practice caste.
They acted like “so what” and shrugged their shoulders. In other words, almost every Sikh in the US who I brought up caste with defended the system to the hilt, did not want to get rid of it, and did not care that Sikhs were  hypocrites in practicing caste while their religion forbid it. Obviously, almost 100% of US Sikhs are probably high caste Sikhs. I believe these are called Jats.
I have met some anti-caste Indians on this site, but before that, I had met quite a few Indians on the Net. Most of them were high caste and quite a few were Brahmins. Every one of these Brahmins defended casteism to the ultimate. They acted like they would only give it up over their dead bodies.
Nobody wants to get rid of a system that is benefiting them. I see comments  on here that casteism is dead in India and there is no benefit to being a Brahmin, but if  this is so, then why do most Brahmins act like they will defend the caste system with their very lives? Something here rings very false.

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54 thoughts on “Casteism: The Dirty and Dark Little Secret of US Indians”

  1. I see comments on here that casteism is dead in India and there is no benefit to being a Brahmin, but if this is so, then why do most Brahmins act like they will defend the caste system with their very lives? Something here rings very false.
    Now that you brought it up, I just want to make a few points very clear.
    1. Casteism isn’t dead in India. But it just so happens that it is way more pronounced in the villages than in major cities.
    2. An overwhelming majority of educated, modern day Indians happen to live in the biggest, major cities. These happen to be the Tier-1 cities (Mumbai, Delhi, Calcutta, Chennai, Bangalore, Ahmedabad, Pune…), and a few Tier-2 cities (Goa, Chandigarh, Noida etc.). Maybe 120-150 million Indians live in these progressive urban centers. Let me reemphasize this point – caste doesn’t really matter in these places anymore (there are exceptions of course). Mumbai’s pace of life has often been compared to New York City. People don’t have even have a minute to spare out of their busy schedules for old-fashioned caste bullshit.
    3. Only the North-eastern states of India are an outlier. The people don’t look like mainland Indians anyway. They have matriarchal societies, many happen to be Christians or Buddhists and are 100% progressive, enlightened people. Unfortunately, they suffer a lot of prejudice in India.
    4. The importance of Tier-1 cities It’s not really an ideal solution but if you’re a sensible, well-educated Indian, you’d prefer to live in the Tier-1 and Tier-2 cities. That arrangement somehow insulates you from the caste-based horrors encountered in other parts of India. It’s a different world out there – honour killings, gang rape, inter-caste violence, Hindu-Muslim riots. If you’re living in a Tier-1 city of India, you read about those distant occurrences in the news just like someone would in California. But, you’re not going to motivate me to go travel there and try and fix the problems. In India, the difference between urban and rural centers can be really described as the difference between modern civilization and the law of the jungle.
    5. Unlike the United States, India has not really progressed to the extent where smaller cities and towns can offer you the same atmosphere of tolerance as the Tier-1 and Tier-2 cities. Anyone who was raised in a Tier-1 city urban environment has managed to greatly insulate themselves from the problems that do exist in other places. It may be a selfish way of living but can you blame them for not wanting to go to the villages and wrestle with the elders about their ancient traditions. It’s like asking a yuppie from Los Angeles to travel down to a Native American reservation, and live there permanently to work on their alcohol problem. That too for less money. How many people would sign up for the greater good?
    6. 70% of Indians continue to live in villages where they haven’t been able to root out casteism. They don’t want to do it. The village elders are so smug and satisfied that being a do-gooder in these parts of India will simply get you killed. If you’re a well-educated urbanite in India, you do not really travel outside your city much.
    7. Another 15% Indians live in Tier-3 cities and smaller towns. The atmosphere in these towns is no different from the villages. Casteism is alive and well, but maybe buried under the surface. There is a chance that the Indians you met in the US may have originated from these Tier-3 cities, smaller towns and the villages. That is why there mindset is so backward. It will take them another 50 years maybe to come to the level of people who were raised all their lives in Tier-1 and Tier-2 cities.
    8. Brahmins are not a monolith group There is no single purpose unity or coherence among all the Brahmins of India. There are no KKK-like chapters promoting Brahmin supremacy. While there are some organizations that seek to promote Brahminism and unity, all of them happen to be religious maniacs and again, are mostly concentrated in the villages and maybe, Tier-3 cities and smaller towns.
    9. Real power in India today is wielded by the following groups of people.
    — Politicians and bureaucrats living in New Delhi. India is a very federalist state. A disproportionate amount of power is concentrated in the hands of current politicians, ex-politicians and the bureaucrats who live in and around New Delhi. Some of them happen to be Brahmins (say <10%) but they are all greedy and selfish people. None of them will benefit their own caste except for family members. Nepotism is rife in these quarters.
    — Military and armed forces – They are controlled by the New Delhi-based politicians and bureaucrats. Thankfully, India has a system of checks and balances which ensure that the military cannot take over the country at gun-point, unlike many other countries in the neighbourhood. There are Brahmins in the armed forces of course, but the vast majority of military men in India happen to belong to the warrior caste (Sikhs, Rajputs, Jatt).
    — Rich business tycoons – Very few of them happen to be Brahmins. Mostly they belong to the merchant caste. India has over 50 US$ billionaires. There’s a lot of corruption in New Delhi which supports a full-fledged oligarchy. According to Transparency International’s 2015 survey, India scored only 38 out of 100 in the honesty index (for comparison, the Netherlands scored 86 and the United States 78).
    — Village elders – As mentioned above, 70% of Indians live in the villages where it’s the law of the jungle run amok. These villages are governed by “elders”, “Chiefs” or “Panchayats” which literally means 5 people — none of whom are elected but formed through local consensus. These people are hopelessly old-fashioned and they live according to centuries of caste-based feudal diktats.
    Most village elders are agriculturists — and mostly belong to lower castes.
    10. Indians still hang out within their own caste because the society is deeply fractured along ethnic/caste lines To understand the caste system, a comparison with the European Union would suffice. Over there in Europe, they have 27 nations and many distinctive regions. They all hang out with their own kind (birds of the same feather….).
    The Brits don’t like anyone else, hell they just voted for Brexit to peacefully separate from the European Union. I have observed that the Swiss also keep to their own – for instance, they don’t get along much with the Germans or the Austrians. In the Czech Republic, they have two distinct regions – Bohemia and Moravia. The people from these two parts don’t get along that well and prefer hanging out with each other. That’s a very small country of only 10 million people we’re talking about.
    You can observe the European Union in action in a crowded nightclub. India is split along the same ethnic/religious differences as Europe. Apart from the Tier-1 cities where everyone mixes freely, most people in India really like to keep to their own (caste).

  2. Yeah, but how would casteism be any different from the childhood bullying you seem to be praising? Note, in Hinduism, as in the bully world, the caste system is defeneded cause the victims deserve it.

    1. Because childhood bullying is normal all over the world. It’s the normal way boys grow up. Casteism is not normal or healthy. It is like slavery, one of the worst systems ever designed by man.

  3. So what about Latin American mestizo elites from South America and Mexico, are they like Indians when it comes to the caste system over there?

      1. My impression was the Latin American elites do have “native admixture” in some levels, because I’ve read about European Spanish noble marrying indigenous women….

        1. Possibly because nobody really gives a shit about it down there. It’s only a big concern to white nationalists. It’s only a minor concern to others. Others want to avoid marrying certain races because they’re associated with trash, even though only some of them are trash.
          If you look at Euro nobles of even in Europe, they tended to only marry other nobles. Race wasn’t a concern, but instead class. But it backfired with you had slobbering inbred idiots as heirs to the thrown, lol

  4. Because I might have an explanation for all this, an alternative science based explanation……

  5. Robert
    You see Robert , this is typical of high caste Indians. They deny their own actions and try to paint themselves as victims or downplay their continued priviledged position and exploitation of the masses.
    High caste Indians still control India and dominate in government and business, even though most Indians are from the lower castes or untouchables. Brahmins get affirmative action if they claim to be poor. Lots of Indians who have never been treated as low caste manipulate caste rankings so they can claim affirmative action.
    You have a high caste minority ruling over the majority and they have the nerve to say they are discriminated against. Virtually all Indian presidents and prime ministers have been high caste and when you finally get a low caste person (Modi) in, he is nothing but an Uncle Tom who works for the interests of High caste Hindus (Hindutva).

  6. Robert
    Most Indians who come here are from the upper castes and they are very sly. They know how to keep their racism, casteism and bigotry on the downlow.

  7. But caste could provde brotherhood for those of one class. Like all the retarded people would have companions and marriage partners.
    For instance, myself, I’m smart, but smart girls don’t like me. That’s a major pain in my life. So caste is sort of wishy washy in the US, with frustrated people who are not accepted by thier caste.

    1. My comment seems wussy and whiny, but it’s true. So many people out there with no tribe. I mean I go only to the Phillippines, where at least my money buys equality and human dignity.

    1. Truth be told, India is slowly and surely moving back to its pre British contact era days. The British experiment of exporting the Enlightment ideas to India is failing. Nehru (our first prime minister) irrespective of his other faults was quite a rational guy. What is so surprising is that millions of Indians who are doctors, accountants, engineers believe in this superstitious BS.
      3 rationalists have been murdered in the last 2 years ISIS style. Indeed some of them were open mineded upper caste Brahmins but their upper caste status did not save them. Mr. Dabholkar, Mr Kalburgi and Mr. Pansure all rationalists fighting superstition were killed by Hindu fundamentalists.
      If you want a good picture how dangerously india is going back to the dark ages check out this video I had posted earlier
      The European colonial project was a failure. India is going back full force back into the dark ages. The Islamic world is getting there too with us (rationalists are being killed by islamic fundamentalists in Bangladesh as well) and let us not forget Israel with a ripidly growing Orthodox Conservative population (to the horor of liberal Israelis). We are going to live in more interesting times.

      1. And I forgot to add, unlike the pre Enlightenment India, this new backward India will have nukes and a very advanced millitary.

        1. Untouchability is obviously wrong however, Sikh Gurus did not ban Jaati or Varan.
          Euros can be enlightened & marry their daughters to negros,
          For us all 4 Varan in Khalsa will slaughter Both.
          VasuDev Hari Govind Ram Vaheguru
          This christian’s incoherent ramblings change nothing,

  8. I beg to differ – I am a Brahmin, in the USA – there are just 2 red-lines for Hindus here – No blacks, No muslims
    Lots of my cousins have married White, Jews, Sikhs, Jains, and all sorts of Upper castes – Patel and above
    Sikhs and Jains are considered part of Hindu society and Hindus have always inter-married them –
    Jews and Whites are accepted, if they agree to Shuddhi ( conversion to Hinduism )
    In Urban India, ( not rural India ), all the Aryan Upper Castes are slowly merging –
    There are several reasons for not wanting to marry lower castes
    *Upper castes are better looking – All the bollywood stars come from Upper castes
    *Upper castes are mostly vegetarian – ( about 30% of Hindus, esp upper caste ), and it is not compatible to marry a non-vegetarian
    *Upper castes have higher IQ – if you look at California National Merit Semifinalist list for 2016, there are 2100 total on the list – of which 300 Indians, of which 135 brahmins, 60 Aryan Merchants and 60 Dravidian landlords – ( It is possible to decode caste from last name, first name etc )

      1. Upper castes have more Aryan blood, and hence much better looking
        Usually, I can visually identify an upper caste vs lower caste

        1. Though all upper caste people are not light skinned and all lower castes are not dark skinned, in general this is true. Go to a marriage of upper caste Brahmins or Kayastas and the lighter skin and sharp Caucasian features of the marriage guests becomes obvious to anybody with eyes. Similarly go to a marriage of some lower caste dalits and the majority of the people are dark with blunt facial features.
          Among Indians, lighter skinned people with sharp Caucasian features, dark skinned people with sharp Caucasian feature and dark skinned people with negroid/Australoid features can be found in the same extended family. So I do not think the concept of pure races has any meaning in India any more. India is more like Brazil/Mexico, not the USA or South Africa.

    1. It is ironic how Vegetarianism and taboo against Beef is tradition that comes from indegenous SubContinent culture. Aryans were beef eating pastoralists. They were not agriculturalist and certainly not vegetarian. Yet now these so called Aryans think they are vegetarians.
      Brahmins used to eat beef. Some Brahmins even eat meat but only after they remove their sacred thread, which according to them makes it ok.

      1. I seems we upper caste Hindus ate beef in the past. This practice only stopped after the rise of Jainism and Buddhism and the rise of the Yadav community and hence the Lord Krishna myth. Many of the Hindu gods worshiped today were minor gods during Vedic periods. Shiva, Vishnu were minor gods. Indra was the most major god and he is similar to Thor of the Norse Germanics and Perun of the Slavs.
        Indeed there are theories that Lord Shiva was a Tibetan guy who became a god later. There is even a best seller trilogy in India based on this theory in India right now. The truth is a new Hindusim was born known as Puranic Hunduism unlike the pure Vedic Hinduism of the past. It rose in the Ganges region and it was a hotch potch of Vedic Aryan mythology mixed with Mongoloid Tibetan/ Kirata (Highland Himalaya peoples) mythology which went about absorbing all the local gods of the subcontinent. All those local South Asian gods were made into reincarnations of other Gods or made husbands/wives of earlier gods and were adjusted into the huge pantheon. Thus this new Hinduism spread from the banks of the Ganges to the ends of the subcontinent absorbing everything, the only constant being the Brahmins should be on top.

        1. Shiva’s roots go atleast as far back as the Indus Valley civilizations so I don’t think it is Tibetan. The Parsupathi seal excavated at Mohenjodaro has been said to represent a proto-Shiva . Shaivism (worship of lord Shiva) is is a major belief in Dravidian religious customs of Southern India and Ceylon. Brahminism / Hindusim co-opted Shaivism and claimed it as a Hindu sect.
          What is called Hindusim is a mix of native and Aryan customs . The main gods are of native origin . Aryan gods like Indra,Varuna,Nastaya,Mithra are minor. The Aryans just absorbed the language, culture and customs of the Natives and added their own contribution like caste and Horse sacrifice.

        2. But his origins might have still been Tibetic even if he was worshiped in the Indus valley

          Lord Shiva’s seat is Mount Kailash which is seated inside Tibet , a mountain holy to the pre Buddhist Mon religion.
          Even Lord Shiva’s wife Parvati was most probabaly a Mongoloid diety. The Aryans called the Mongoloids living in the Himalayas Kiratas and had a higher opinion of them than the Caucasoidic-negroid-Australoid majority that lived in India

          ‘The source of the word Kirat or Kirati is much disputed. One school of thought says that it comes from the Sanskrit word Kirata found in the Yajurveda; they are described as the “handsome” mountain people and hunters in the forests.[3] It is also described as Chinese in the Mahabharata, Kirtarjuniya.[3]’
          ‘Kirātas (Sanskrit: किरात) are mentioned in early Sanskrit literature as hunter tribes from the Himalayas. They are first mentioned in the Yajurveda (Shukla XXX.16; Krisha III.4,12,1), and in the Atharvaveda (X.4,14), which dates back to 16th century BC.[citation needed] They are often mentioned along with the Cinas “Chinese”.[c’
          As far as Goddess Parvati and Lord Shiva are concerned, from the same wikipedia page
          ‘The Sanskrit kavya titled Kiratarjuniya (Of Arjuna and the Kirata) mentions that Arjuna adopted the name, nationality, and guise of a Kirata for a certain period to learn archery and the use of other arms from Shiva, who was considered as the deity of the Kirata.[5] Hindu myth also has many incidents where the god Shiva imitates a married Kirati girl who later become Parvati.’
          Hinduism is a wierd hoch poch of many mythologies. It is similar to the Romans who absorbed and adopted many non Roman European and Middle Eastern/ North African Gods into their pantheon.

        3. Lord Shiva being of Tibetan origin also plays a big role in a best seller in India, The immortals of Meluha.

          Agreed the book is fiction (all mythologies and religions are fictious up to some extent) the author, Amish Tripathi is a brahmin whose ancestors were Hindu scholars and his childhood was immersed in deep study of Hindu mythology.

        4. Even though Aryans took up the local Dravidian religion, many strong Aryan influences on Hindu mythology remain

          One common myth among almost all Indo-European mythologies is a battle ending with a hero or god slaying a serpent or dragon of some sort (Watkins 1995).
          Zeus vs. Typhon, Kronos vs. Ophion, Apollo vs. Python, Heracles vs. the Hydra and Ladon, Perseus vs. Ceto, and Bellerophon vs. the Chimera in Greek mythology;
          Thor vs. Jörmungandr, Sigurd vs. Fafnir and Beowulf vs. the dragon in Germanic mythology;
          Indra vs. Vrtra in the Rigveda;
          Krishna vs. Kāliyā in the Bhagavata Purana;
          Fereydun, and later Garshasp, vs. Zahhak in Zoroastrianism and Persian mythology;
          Perun vs. Veles, Dobrynya Nikitich vs. Zmey in Slavic mythology;
          Făt-Frumos vs. Zmeu in Folklore of Romania
          Tarhunt vs. Illuyanka of Hittite mythology;
          Related to the dragon-slaying myth is the “Sun in the rock” myth, of a heroic warrior deity splitting a rock where the Sun or Dawn was imprisoned. Such a myth is preserved in the Rigvedic story of Vala, where Ushas and the cows, stolen by the Panis were imprisoned, connected with other myths of abductions into the netherworld such as the mysteries of Eleusis connected with Persephone, Dionysus and Triptolemus.
          The Sun god, Helios of Greek mythology, Surya of Hinduism, and Sól of Germanic mythology are represented as riding in a chariot with horses. (Note that the chariot was not invented until Indo-European had already split into linguistic branches[citation needed].)
          In Norse mythology, the Sun goddess (Sól) and Moon god (Máni) are swallowed by demon wolves Sköll and Hati Hróðvitnisson.
          In Hinduism, the Sun god (Surya) and Moon god (Chandra) are swallowed by the demon serpents Rahu and Ketu resulting in Eclipses.[23]
          Analysis of different Indo-European tales indicate the Proto-Indo-Europeans believed there were two progenitors of mankind: *Manu- (“Man”; Indic Manu; Germanic Mannus) and *Yemo- (“Twin”; Indic Yama; Germanic Ymir), his twin brother. Cognates of this set of twins appear as the first mortals, or the first gods to die, sometimes becoming the ancestors of everyone and/or king(s) of the dead.[14][15]
          My comment
          This could explain why the English word for Man i.e. ‘Man’ is similar to the word for man in Hindi i.e. ‘Manav’ (Bengali language (Eastern India/Bangladesh) ‘Manush’ and Marathi (Western India) ‘Manus’). The ancient Germanics called the first human being ‘Mannus’.
          Similarly, the Russian word for fire is Ogon which is easily related to the Aryan fire God ‘Agni’. In Bengali, fire is called ‘Agun’.

        5. Even the basic word for God is similar among all Indo European myths

          The term for “a god” was *deiwos,[4] reflected in Hittite, sius; Latin, deus, divus; Sanskrit, deva; Avestan, daeva (later, Persian, divs); Welsh, duw; Irish, dia; Lithuanian, Dievas; Latvian, Dievs.[5]
          *Dyēus Ph2tēr (literally “sky father”) is the god of the day-lit sky and the chief god of the Indo-European pantheon. The name survives in Greek Zeus with a vocative form Zeu pater; Latin Jūpiter (from the archaic Latin Iovis pater; Diēspiter), Sanskrit Dyáus Pitā, and Illyrian Dei-pátrous.[6]
          *Plth2wih2 (literally “the broad one”) is reconstructed[7] as Plenty,[verification needed] a goddess of wide flat lands and the rivers that meander across them. Forms include Hittite Lelwani, a goddess of the underworld, “the pourer”,[8] and Sanskrit Prithvi.
          *Perkwunos, known as “the striker”, is reconstructed[9] from Sanskrit Parjanya, Prussian Perkuns, Lithuanian Perkūnas, Latvian Pērkons, Slavic Perun, and Norse Fjörgyn. Fjörgyn was replaced by Thor among the Germanic-speaking peoples. The Celtic hammer god Sucellus (also cf. Taranis “Thunderer”) is of the same character, but with an unrelated name.

        6. From

          Tripathi believes that “Myths are nothing but jumbled memories of a true past. A past buried under mounds of earth and ignorance.”[1] The book has known characters from Hindu texts as well as those born from Tripathi’s imagination,[2] however the characters from the Hinduism do not inherit all of their classical traits.[3]
          Shiva – The main character in the story. He is a Tibetan immigrant to Meluha and the chief of the Guna tribe. On arriving in Meluha and consuming the Somras, his throat turns blue making him the Neelkanth of the Meluhan legend, which speaks of the appearance of Neelkanth as a destroyer of evil. The Meluhans end up believing that Shiva would be their savior.[4]

      2. Shiva – The main character in the story. He is a Tibetan immigrant to Meluha and the chief of the Guna tribe. On arriving in Meluha and consuming the Somras, his throat turns blue making him the Neelkanth of the Meluhan legend, which speaks of the appearance of Neelkanth as a destroyer of evil. The Meluhans end up believing that Shiva would be their saviour.[4]

      3. Also check this out
        “In the then India, the mutual relations between the original inhabitants of India and the outsiders, the Aryans, were by no means cordial. The Aryans, out of deep-rooted contempt for the indigenous people of India, used to call them sometimes asuras, sometimes dánavas, sometimes dásas, sometimes shúdras.
        The Aryans did not accept these people in their society; rather, they declared them to be outcastes…they declared them to be ‘pariahs’ or ‘untouchables’…But these ancient people of India, of Austrico-Mongolo-Negroid blood, had their own civilization and culture. They were also developed people: they had their science of Tantra, and their medicine. There was a prolonged conflict between these people and the Aryans.
        “Shiva was born… into a Mongolo-Aryan family…in this atmosphere of conflict between the Aryans and the non-Aryans, but He always cherished a sincere desire that all the races – the Aryans, the non-Aryans, and the Mongolians – would live together in peace. In fact, He worked constantly towards that end.
        “In the social sphere, Shiva played a very active role in removing the distinctions among the members of society…Shiva had three wives (those were also the days of polygamy) – Párvatii [Gaorii], a fair-complexioned Aryan girl…(in Old China, Párvatii was known as Tárá); Kálii [Káliká], a dark-complexioned non-Aryan [Austrico-Dravidian] girl; and Gaungá, a yellow-complexioned Mongolian girl… born in Tibet…He hoped these marriages would restore the spirit of friendship among the three races.
        “In those days the Aryans were fair-complexioned, the non-Aryans [Negro-Austric Dravidians] dark-complexioned, and the Mongolians yellow-complexioned. But Shiva was white-complexioned.
        “Shiva wanted to unite the people by obliterating social differences. He tried His utmost throughout His life to unite the then human society, scattered and fragmented into numerous groups and subgroups, and lead it towards supreme fulfillment.

        1. “In the days of Shiva, three ethnic groups intermingled. One was the Austric group, the black non-Aryan people; the second was the Mongolian group who came to India from the north, that is from Tibet and China; and the third was the fair-complexioned Aryan group which entered India from the west…
          In the days of Shiva, the Aryans started entering India from the northwest. Many of them had already arrived, many were on the way, and many were still making preparations to come. Th[is] period of Shiva was a most turbulent period in India. On the one hand there were the Aryans, the outsiders, and on the other hand there were the indigenous people, with their Tantra-oriented culture and religion. Into this conflict-ridden environment, Shiva was born.

    2. Agreed, No blacks, No muslims. There is very little chance for a high caste Hindu/Jain family to accept blacks and muslims. And also no lower caste. An Arab Christian will do, a Thai Buddhist will do, a Japanese or a Norwegian will definitly do but no blacks or muslims. Indeed this is exactly what my relatives teld me before going to England. No blacks, No Muslims period. And my relatives have all travelled the ends of the World!
      However in the case of Muslims, I have seen some Upper Caste Hindus marry Iranians. I guess Shia are more acceptable and in those marriages, both the Indian and Iranian partners were hardly that religious anyways. The Iranians were quite westernised and thir culture was very agreeble to upper caste Hindus.

  9. Robert wrote:

    We also an attempt here by this high caste Indian to claim that the main problem of caste discrimination nowadays is Affirmative Action and reservations for lower caste Indians. This is simply pitiful. It reminds one of the White nationalists of the US whining about how Whites are the most discriminated race in the US now.

    I also see a lot of griping about affirmative action in India. It is definitely one of those laughable “yeah, bring out the violins” kind of gripes. The overall gap in, well, pretty much everything, between low and high caste Indians makes the U.S. black-white gap pale (no pun intended) in comparison.

  10. Hello Robert. Thanks for writing good blogs about India and its incredibly inhumane and barbaric culture. I have read your other articles on India and you are 100% correct in pointing out the ugliness of India. Actually its not only India, its all of South Asia which is a hell hole. Caste system is a South Asian phenomenon and Muslims, Christians, Sikhs and Buddhists of Subcontinent practice it in social forms although in a much less uglier way what the Hindus do. All of Subcontinent’s cultures are backward as hell and are anti weak, anti poor, anti women, anti rationality and superstitious as hell.
    I personally identify myself with Indo-Persian culture (as I am a South Asian Muslim) which is heavily Persianised and historically much more civilized and egalitarian than low end Indian cultures but it does not mean that South Asian Muslims are any better than their backward Hindu counterparts. But at least Islam saves us from much of the evils of Hinduism.
    India’s claims of becoming the next super power are hilarious, they can’t even build toilets for their people. Thanks for speaking the truth about that place. Keep up the good work.

  11. I guess the caste sytem is never goin anywhere. It is sadly here to stay. Islam, Buddhism, Jainism, Sikhism, Christianity, European reformers, Hindu reformers, Ambedkar and the dalit movements came and tried but the caste system is here, loud and proud. I guess not every part of the world will become Sweden or a S. Korea. The middle East is the same (clannish & secterian wars and clashes), parts of latin America are going Aztec style with a bang (drug gangs), Africa has its tribalism (most of the times it is unders the surface, sometimes it comes back with a bang with genocides), Turks are dreaming of bringing back their brutal ottoman regime (they were supposed to be a model Modern Islamic country). As I said, not all parts of the world are meant to be Sweden or Korea. Indeed with increased immigration, Sweden might become an India in the future. India with snow.
    One guy on some other blog commented: America is becoming more like Argentina, Argentina more like Brazil, Brazil more like Venezuela and Venezuela is becoming Zimbabwe. We are going to live in interesting times in the future.

  12. Caste like system in Niger?
    Dark skined slaves to lighter skinned masters. Are the masters originally of Arab ancestry? Do not know. Are the Arabs the Aryans of the Sahara?
    check 7:42
    Interesting. Not the same as the complicated and ancient Indian caste system but stragely parallel.

    1. If they’re light skin then iI believe they would be Nigerien Tuerags, they are the only ones light enough or common enough (10%) to form an significant caste,
      They would be Berbers as opposed to Arabs.

    2. Though they could also be Fulani, for they were very rampant in conquering and slavery.
      Both Tuerags and Fulani were nomadic.

    3. The historically slave owning chiefs they showed did not look light skinned or Tuareg, or even Fulani.
      There were probably different groups of slave owners in Niger (varying by region. Though part of this documentary mentions a regions where Touaregs are the majority—or the culture is Touareg-ized by Touareg conquest, and thus so are many of the slave owners.); including among the elites of Native black groups (and their own elites, and in those cases there is no color hierarchy—though the influence of Islam sometimes made Arab culture in some ways prestigious); like the Zarma Songhai (famers and sometimes fisherman), and Hausa, Hausa-Fulanis, Nomadic Toubou (who are black Nilo-Saharan speakers like the Zarma Songhai but more nomadic), Fulanis, and Touaregs.
      In the Sahel, like many other places, slaves adopted the language of their masters, losing their original culture/identity. The dark-skinned Touareg slaves are speaking Touareg.
      The major ethnic groups in Niger are the Hausa and Zarma Songhai

      1. “The historically slave owning chiefs they showed did not look light skinned or Tuareg, or even Fulani.”
        Given the country’s demographics (and certain cultural things they showed; like the court musicians and their instruments) they were probably Hausa of Songhai (Maybe more Hausa)

      2. In parts of the Sahel, caste systems predate Islam and the migration of Berbers.
        They likely started with Mande speaking peoples (originally from the Niger valley in Mali-South East Mauritania; Mandinka, Soninke etc; going, in some primitive form maybe back to the Neolithic Tichitt cultural complex and the Djenne region), then spreading (in modified/varying forms; slave castes did not form everywhere, nor did musician castes always. The oldest castes were probably the craft castes, and maybe some merchantile ones) somewhat further in the Sahel/Savannah to a few non-Mande peoples (not all by any means) influenced by the movements of Mande merchants, craftspeople, and sometimes conquerers (to much of Senegal, parts of Burkina, etc.) and were not associated with color.
        Musician and craft castes (where they existed) among some Touareg groups were also often darker skinned, and probably an case of the influence of Mande culture/peoples.
        Slave status was not casted in Hausa culture (though craft casts existed), like it was in much of Mali* and Senegal among the Mandinka, Wolof, and Soninke (With Hausas slavery was often hereditary in practice, but free/slave marriages/unions could produce free people and manumission was not uncommon). But it may have been in Touareg and Songhai culture (though mixing, happened semi-serreptitiously, like in India. And like In India, all high caste people probably had some low-caste ancestry.)
        *The Bambara have craft castes but no slave caste.

        1. Some (of the likely oldest) castes in the (Malian) Niger valley are also linked to specific forms of subsistence; millet farming, rice framing, herding, fishing (and are economically quasi-interdependant). Some blur the line between the staus of caste and ethnic group/tribe (quasi autonomous) , (like some groups in parts of of India eg: the Gujarat Rabari camel herders, or the Rajastani Banjara), and have their own lands, some being more culturally distinct than others (the Bozo fisherman/traders/boatman and the Nono/Marka rice farmers —who varried in wealth—both speak forms of Soninke. While the some others had distinct languages and were more like sepparate tribes.

        2. edit: “Musician/bard and craft castes (where they existed) among some Touareg groups were also often darker skinned.”
          Bard (“griot”) castes are also native to the Mandinka and Soninke and are found with the Bambara, Wolof, Fulani, and a certain other Savannah Sahel groups (I believe bards/musicians are professional and at least semi hereditary in Hausa culture, but not casted. This is aso true of bards in many other African—and non-African—cultures.). Casted bards do not exist in any Beber culture besides the Touareg, because of the Touareg’s greater proximity to/influence from Sahelian black cultures (specifically from Mande-speaking culture in that aspect).

        3. edit: “(With Hausas slavery was often hereditary in practice—and serfdom, or conditions between slave and serf, existed, as they did with some other West African cultures—but free/slave marriages/unions could produce free people and manumission was not uncommon).”

      3. I went with the Idea of Fulani or Turaegs because the latter were known to be rather mixed, the former generally because of their sucess in regards to conquering.
        Hausa, however, seems likely. It’s just that I never thought of Hausa being light skinned,

        1. “Hausa, however, seems likely. It’s just that I never thought of Hausa being light skinned,”
          The Hausa are not light skinned (the Chiefs I mentioned were not light skinned.) The only light skinned slave owners are likely the Touareg (and maybe, but less likely, some Fulani. There are differents (and different types of) slave owning classes/segments of society there.

  13. Robert, Bali in Indonesia has Hinduism too. I was wondering if you would know if caste exists there and did it cause the same fuck up as in South Asia. Hinduism there is a bit different than the one in India.

  14. There has been a lot on the news recently about dalits protesting and revolting (just google dalits).
    And another thing, some of the caste discrimination is practiced by OBC in india (shudra/low caste who make up 40-50% of the population) against dalits, not necessarily brahmins
    Also I don’t think caste matters at all to indians born outside of india. It is gone in guyana, trinidad, and mauritius. I am not sure what its like in the uk and canada though

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