Evidence for Female Hypergamy

Steve writes:

It would be nice if some of the quantitative rigor of HBD was brought to bear on manosphere/game concepts such as female hypergamy. As I pointed out elsewhere, the studies I’ve seen on number of sexual partners of men and women don’t vindicate the theory that a small percentage of men are monopolizing the woman. In fact, quite the opposite.

Also, Oscar Wilde never let the truth get in the way of a witty pronouncement.

As you can see from these quotes, Wilde understood women better than almost any man ever. And of course he understood women better than women because women have zero understanding of their nature.

“Women always want the best.”

– Oscar Wilde

Wilde is correct, and I can even give you some real-life examples in some future posts.

They are probably not monopolizing all the women; more likely the Alphas are monopolizing the best women.

There does seem to be some evidence for female hypergamy. OKCupid study showed that 8

There is also anecdotal evidence.

When I was in high school, I finally noticed something, “Well Goddamn! 1

A post on the Net from someone who just got out of law school said most at the school were in their 20’s and 30’s going back to school. The poster said that while he was getting his degree, he noticed that there were maybe 1

When I told my mother this story and my high school anecdote and then related the Alpha – Beta – Omega scale, she got very interested. Then she shrugged her shoulders and said, “Well of course.”

My mother is basically the source of “timeless wisdom of the ancients.” If you ever want to go figure out what people have always known all down through time, ask her.

It also goes along with common sense. All men with a lot of experience with women know that female hypergamy is true. The men who question often are male feminists or don’t have a lot of experience.

Also from my own experience during periods in my life when apparently I was in this top 10-2

One more thing: from the reports online, things seem to have changed dramatically since the 70’s and 80’s. If reports are correct, female hypergamy is much worse now. Now these guys are either making correct observations or else they are making stuff up or hallucinating. I choose to believe the latter. These guys who are complaining are onto something.

Everyone knows that female hypergamy is real. The question is more about how bad it is.

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0 thoughts on “Evidence for Female Hypergamy”

  1. “Alphas are monopolizing the best women.”

    The most attractive men are monopolising the most attractive women? As expected.

    “OKCupid study showed that 80% of the women were chasing only the top 20% of men and ignoring all of the rest.”

    They may try but that doesn’t mean they are successful.

    The facts:

    At my age (31), something like 60 or 70% of men are in committed relationships.

    Also, at my age, the bottom 90% of men have had more sexual partners than the bottom 90% of women (in promiscuity, not attractivenes), implying that there is a fraction of women (about 10%) who are having an awful lot of sexual partnes. That’s why I said ‘quite the opposite’.

    These are the figures:

    males 30-34, number of sexual partners:
    0: 2.8%
    1: 10.7%
    2: 6.9%
    3-6: 28.5%
    7-14: 21.9%
    15+: 29.2%
    median: 6.4

    females 30-34, no. of sexual partners:
    0: 1.9%
    1: 20.5%
    2: 9.4%
    3-6: 38.8%
    7-14: 18.0%
    15+: 11.3%
    median: 3.8

    There is a posisbility that men are over-reporting and women are under reporting but I’ve seen two separate surverys (one an academic study; one an internet survey) and they both said the same thing.

    “There have been repeated studies at STD clinics that show that 80-90% of the women at the clinics are having sex with only 10-20% of the men.”

    And what percentage of all women are attending these clinics?

    1. What difference does it make. 80-90% of the women at the STD clinics are getting the STD’s from 10-20% of the men. 80-20 rule once again.

      You think all these guys complaining about this situation are just making stuff up or hallucinating? I figure there is some truth in what they are complaining about. There are too many guys all saying the same thing often with good anecdotes to back them up. There’s no way they’re all lying or hallucinating. Something is going on here.

      1. Because 80-90% of the women at STD clinics may represent the 10% of women who have a lot of lifetime sexual partners, not actually 80%-90% of women. Or lets say 20-30% of women. Its not 80-20 of the population as a whole. Its not a representative sample.

        “You think all these guys complaining about this situation are just making stuff up or hallucinating?”

        Who is complaining? These so called incel guys? 1% of the population (or 3% or 10%, whatever) can make a big online community, especially since those sort of icnel guys are usually guys with no social lfie who have a big internet presence.

        Are these the losers of the modern dating environment, the least attractive guys, or introverts, aspies etc?

        I don’t mean to minimise that…that’s a problem for society, which should be able to pair off even these guys.

        But is the average guy or the median guy complaining at all?

        At least 40% of guys have had over 10 sexual partners by 30 according to surveys I’ve seen. They should be extremely happy with that! 50% have had over 7. They should be happy with that.

        Almost 80% have had at least 3. If that includes a long term relationship or two, they should be quite happy with that…its not shameful. They could have had plenty of sex.

        60 to 70% have girlfriends, according to other data I’ve seen.

        What I think is happening is there’s a community of frustrated guys who exaggerate what is happening quite a lot. I don’t think there is any real big crisis, or at least i don’t think there is a crisis for the majority.

        1. They are not representative or ordinary women. Well, ok but so what? At least it shows that a subset of women are practicing hypergamy. You also say that the women in STD clinics may be the group of women who have lots of sex partnters. But that’s not what these women are doing. They’re not wracking up lots of sex partners. 80-90% of them are only having sex with 10-20% of men! They’re not sleeping with every guy in town like you suggest. Instead they are all cycling through a small number of men at the top.

          There’s hypergamy right there for you.

          You also fail to explain why sluts or women with lots of sex partners would be more likely to practice hypergamy than anyone else. Sluts would probably be less likely to cycle through a small group of men at the top because they are probably more indiscriminate.

      2. I think the point here was that those women who are attending STD clinics are not likely representative of women as a whole, and therfore the data has an inherant bias. You don’t get an STD, one presumes, without somehow being careless in your sex life. So we are talking about a particular kind of woman here.

        What needs to be done are studies that are not biased by particular contexts.

        1. Yes but we found the same 80-20 rule in the OK Cupid survey and in anecdotal reports by me and others.

          And why would sluts be any more hypergamous than any other women. Hypergamous women are being extremely selective. Sluts by definition are not very selective at all.

          And even if the sample is biased, we have proven that a subset of women are indeed practicing hypergamy.

          1. My point is not to say the effect isn’t real as such, more to point out that the study is not exactly taking into account those who are representative of the entire population. I’m not sure we can take dating sites as gospel, since they probably attract a certain type of clientele (and doesn’t necessarily reflect people’s behaviour in meatspace), and of course anecdotal reports are hardly scientific. The general point is: lack of real serious investigation into the matter.

            And, of course, the “certain type of women” doesn’t have to imply more promiscuous ones, as much as those who are more careless. I wonder if the women in question, being less careful about contracting an STD are probably less guarded when it comes to their affections, and the 10-20% of men in question would be a lot more successful with these women than women in general.

            Of course the effect could work the other way- if they are more promiscuous women, then perhaaps the general female population tends even more towards hypergamy.

        2. Why would a woman who is less guarded with her affections limit herself to the top 10-20% of men? Doesn’t make sense. If she was less guarded with her affections, she would not be so selective as to pick out a small group of men.

          As far as I am concerned, where there’s smoke, there’s fire. No one has to prove this to me. I’ve been observing this thing all my life and I even experienced it for a while. I don’t need to wait around for some study.

          Hypergamy anyway simply means that females have a tendency towards wanting to “trade up” in terms of mates. She is with one guy until a better one comes along, in which case, she trades up.

        3. “And why would sluts be any more hypergamous than any other women. Hypergamous women are being extremely selective. Sluts by definition are not very selective at all.”

          Actually I don’t think they are. I think they may account for the fact that the bottom 90% of men have more sexual partners than the bottom 90% of women. (Please look at those figures I posted). Nevertheless, the most sexually successful men will still account for a large share of their lovers. They are the men who come onto them and seek them out the most.

          “Hypergamy anyway simply means that females have a tendency towards wanting to “trade up” in terms of mates.”

          Don’t men do the same if they get the chance? In any case, I’m comfortable with the idea that women are more picky than men and want to find the best mate possible since they may logically have a different reproductive strategy to men. (1 man can impregnate numerous women while a woman can only have one child at a time).

          My point is that most women are not very slutty on average (median sexual partners of American women: 3) and alpha males are not monopolising 80% of women whatsoever by any stretch of the imagination whatsoever. If you said 40% I would at least then have to think harder about it.

          I actually think that the alpha males who are having sex with many women are mainly having sex with the 10% women who are also highly promiscuous.

          (on the issue of the validity of the studies: http://phys.org/news/2006-02-lovers-liars-sex-partners.html)

          p.s. with women, it seems obvious that the most promiscuous women are not necessarily the most attractive or high value ones. Otherwise we’d talk more about alpha females dominating because they can. But then maybe we should ask ourselves whether the most promiscuous men are necessarily always the most high value, high status, dominant or desirable…just a thought. Sometimes they are probably just low status sociopaths who have worked out how to get women into bed.

    2. Steve, all of your figures are useless because all women are compulsive liars, especially when it comes to sexual matters. Just read Weininger. Women have no concept of objective truth.

  2. Look, think about this: maybe the top 20% of men on OKcupid would have a harem if they could but the average woman doesn’t want to be part of a harem. She wants a boyfriend.

    Women compete with each other for the best men; they don’t want to share. Hence, not only do the average women not want to be part of a harem, the above average woman don’t want to share her boyfriend.

    Even that top 20% of guy don’t geneerally want to have sex with below average women. They want average to hot women at least.

    So there are serious constraints on 80% of women partnering with top 20% of men.

    1. The line out there is that women in their 20’s would rather be part of an Alpha’s harem than to have all of a Beta. I know that’s not completely true, but I suspect there may be a bit of truth there.

      1. From what i’ve seen, the data for 20’s is not much different to the data for 30’s….it looks to me that they are more or less on course to be the same as the older ones.

        Girls want boyfriends. And most women even in their 20’s are not ‘slutty’. Most of them are in single digits on sexual partners, if they are honest on anonymous surverys.

  3. Women are picky, yes, due to the fast they can only have one pregnancy at a time, but they want serious paternal investment not a guy who has 14 other women. Her dream is to get an alpha male to commit to her.

  4. I think most women want the most attractive male they can get. They don’t explicitly think in terms of alpha and beta. I don’t think there is a clear dividing line between high bet and low alpha anyway. Its not like there are three kinds of guys like there are three kinds of ants.

  5. …guys also want the most attractive female they can get of course. Its what everyone does.

    if there is a problem, id say not enough guys (or girls) in their 20’s get into long term relationships.

    1. So you think this incel thing is a great big myth? You are saying that there were just as many guys like this back in the 70’s and 80’s as now, right? There is no modern phenomenon that did not exist before whereby large numbers of young men are being locked out of the sex market?

  6. This is my contention: the manosphere/incel idea that a larger percentage of women are a ) in relationships or b) getting laid than men due to ‘alpha males’ monopolising women is false. Its probably a MYTH.

    Im afraid all the available data shows this is not true.

    It even shows that the bottom 90% of men have had mroe sexual partners than the bottom 90% of women, although this might be an error arising from differences in reporting tendencies. I doubt those errors are large enough that the reality is radically opposite to what the data shows.

    There are also women who are not getting laid or in relationships throughout their 20’s. Yes, you may say they could offer themselves up and get laid easily but they don’t have that kind of personality or the desire for one nigth stands. There are incel women but they don’t make a fuss about it like testosterone fuelled incel men. Men are more prone to rage.

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