Rantus writes:
No, I’m not a “Ukrainian Nationalist Guy”, and let me ask you a simple question: would you want to live under Russian rule? Because if you can’t see that all that’s really happening here is Putin attempting to reconstitute the old Soviet Empire then you’ve got blinders on. Everything about the current Russian govt is dirty. Their fire sales of state owned industries and assets to their own oligarchs makes American pay to play look squeaky clean in comparison.
The bottom line is they invaded, and they didn’t invade because the separatists were winning. They invaded because they were on the ropes and getting their asses kicked. If Putin could have pulled if this coup by proxy without ever putting boots on the ground do you really think he wouldn’t have? It would have saved him all kinds of face. But he couldn’t , so he invaded. Its simple tactical logic.
Now you’re gonna see what him and his gangster government are really about.
The commenter’s talking points are straight from the Ukie nationalist playbook. I wonder what his ethnic background is?
Whether or not I would like to live under Russian rule is irrelevant. Why this is an important question?
He is not trying to reconstitute the USSR, but I was a fan of the USSR anyway, so I would not mind if he was. Anyway, the USSR was a country for a very long time. Why would it be so bad if they all merged into one country again and called it the Russian Federation?
The truth is that there are all sorts of places that are clamoring to be part of Russia because they hate living under their present rulers. South Ossetia and Abkhazia have been pleading to join Russia forever. Ditto with Transdniestria. Russia has been turning them all down for a very long time now. If Putin wants to recreate the USSR, why didn’t he annex Transdniestria, Abkhazia and South Ossetia? The “expansionist Putin” argument is insane.
Also the Novorussians pled for a long time to join Russia. This is what most of the people genuinely wanted. Russia turned them down. How is turning down people who want to annex themselves onto you expansionist? This argument is crazy.
True, Putin took Crimea back, but it’s always been part of Russia anyway. Then it was always part of the USSR. It ended up in Ukraine by accident after 1991. The Crimeans have been clamoring to get back into Russia since the first day of Ukie independence. A recent poll found that 97% of Crimeans support being a part of Russia.
Do people have something against self-determination?
As a matter of fact, the separatists have been winning since the middle of August but the Western media has been lying all this time and saying they were losing. If you only read the Western press, you will truly end up thinking that up is down.
The rebels were indeed on ropes up until August 1, which then turned into a stalemate from August 1-15, which has then turned into a rebel romp from August 15-now.
It’s not a coup. The Novorussian people simply do not want to live in the same state as these Nazis. The Novorussian forces have 75% support in the region. It is a legitimate grassroots revolution as most armed separatist movements are.
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Buddhists for Mother Russia!
http://windowoneurasia2.blogspot.com/2014/08/window-on-eurasia-buddhist-cossacks-to.html
Sure, Goble tries to squeeze as much negative as he can outta this, but the
fact is, Buddhist Cossacks in service of Eurasian Empire.
“Whether or not I would like to live under Russian rule is irrelevant. Why this is an important question?”
Er, because the majority of Ukrainians don’t, that’s why. They were polled and it came up that they want a single, unified state. Kind of like how Canada wants all the benefits of being America’s neighbor while not being american.
But you’ll say that that’s just western propaganda.
Ukraine stood to become very rich in the position of being a go-between state. They would have raked in massive amounts of money facilitating energy and goods transfer between Russia and the west. They were also on a solid path as an industrial manufacturer. But Russia didn’t like that, and now all that is gone.
But you’ll say that that’s just western propaganda.
Now there’s only the gangster Putin and his agenda, same as it was before under the gangster USSR. Ukraine has no future now, because their real self determination was just pulled out from underneath them.
For somebody who is basically a Russian cheerleader, you seem to not really know much about Russians and how they really do things. If he steps foot in Poland, or rather when he does, what will you say then?
Oh yeah, and the separatists were losing up until august 1st and then what happened? Russia sent in support, that’s what. And the reason that Putin denied integration to south Ossetia and these other flyspeck countries is because they have no value to him. They’re nothing but fragmented, balkanized countries with no intristic value but a lot of whackjobs that can create havoc through terrorism.
Ukraine though? Now that’s the real prize. Food from rich soil, energy, borders with NATO countries, hell, now that’s some good shit right there. That’s the exact reason why Hitler went after it and hence fucked up the invasion of Russia; because Ukraine is just too pretty for any tyrant to pass up.
I would like to thank you though for allowing me to lay out my case. You are also a very intelligent and compassionate person. You actually think you are fighting evil. But the truth is that you are just hopelessly brainwashed. Yet that’s not a bad thing and it’s understandable. Propaganda works.
You never answered me about your ethnicity. Some of your arguments are used a lot by Ukie nationalists but rarely by anyone else.
This is just more of your lies.
“Whether or not I would like to live under Russian rule is irrelevant. Why this is an important question?”
Er, because the majority of Ukrainians don’t, that’s why. They were polled and it came up that they want a single, unified state.
The people in the East sure don’t. Maybe they did at one point, but no way to they want to live in one state now. No way. In Donetsk, Kharkiv and Lugansk, the vast majority of people want to separate from Ukies on a permanent basis. They don’t even want federalism. And even those folks will not be living under Russian rule, although apparently most of them wanted to do just that recently. They will be living under the rulers of their own state, Novorussia. I have read reports from Ukie soldiers that said that 75% of people in the towns they go into support the rebels, 5% are undecided and 20% are pro-Ukie. And that was a while back before things got really ugly. It must surely be higher now.
Crimea also wants to be part of Russia. They voted 97% to join. They want to be ruled by Russia. Is that ok with you?
But you’ll say that that’s just western propaganda.
See you are playing games with language to trick people. Western propaganda always does this. You try to conflate the results of a poll of the entire Ukraine with the feelings of those in the Donbass. I am quite certain that most Ukrainians at the moment want to live in a single state. But no way does Kharkiv, Lugansk and Donetsk and neither does Transcarpathia or Crimea for that matter. Now as far as oblast by oblast for the rest of the Ukraine, I am not sure. But there has been guerrilla war in Kherson and Zaporozhye for a while now. People from Kherson, Zaporozhye and Kharkiv come to the Donbass, gain fighting experience and then go back to their own regions and start guerrilla war. I would be interested to see a poll about how Odessa, Kherson and Zaporozhye feel about being ruled by the Nazis.
Ukraine stood to become very rich in the position of being a go-between state. They would have raked in massive amounts of money facilitating energy and goods transfer between Russia and the west. They were also on a solid path as an industrial manufacturer.
All of these are lies. The EU’s package to the Ukraine was a poison gift. Ukraine would have had to shut down her entire industrial economy, which would then be bought up on the cheap by Western capitalists. One condition was a doubling of gas prices and a 50% cut in pensions. The Ukies owe $17 billion, mostly to Western banks. The West was going to loan them billions more or less so they could pay off the $17 billion they already owe. Putin estimates it will take $160 billion to bring Ukraine up to European standards. He is right. The thing is, the West is simply not going to pay that bill. The future for the Ukies is very bleak. They have been facilitating gas transfers to Europe forever now. Where are the riches. The Ukies owe Russia $5 billion for gas. Mostly what the Ukies have been doing for a long time now is siphoning off Russian gas from the pipeline.
Russia already does a lot of trade with the West. Anyway, only 35-40% of Ukies supporting joining the West and the EU. Most of the others wanted to join the Russian Customs Union or were undecided. So the proposal to join the West didn’t even have majority support. Russia offered a massively better deal. Yanukovitch originally wanted to go with the West (he and Putin never got along), but he started to get cold feet when he learned of the horrific terms of the agreement which would have resulted in the debasement and colonization of the Ukrainian economy by the predatory West. The deal with Russia was in the spirit of solidarity, not predation, so Yanukovitch went with Putin’s deal.
But you’ll say that that’s just western propaganda.
It is Western propaganda. Nothing you said is true.
Ukraine has no future now, because their real self determination was just pulled out from underneath them.
Oh now you are Mr. Self Determination. Does the Donbass and Crimea have self-determination too? If not, why not.
Putin isn’t going to conquer Ukraine and make it a part of Russia. He’s not stupid. Western Ukraine could never really be conquered anyway.
If he steps foot in Poland, or rather when he does, what will you say then?
He isn’t going to invade Poland. This is the Putin is Hitler lie. Putin isn’t Hitler. Why would Putin invade Poland. Was Poland part of the USSR? This is crazy. No way in Hell would Putin do that and he has no need to anyway. Also Poland is NATO, and treaties say that a Russian invasion sets off an automatic war between Russia and NATO. In which case, btw, I would be supporting NATO of course.