Christianity Versus Islam in Europe

When an insecure, malleable, relativistic culture meets a culture that is anchored, confident, and strengthened by common doctrines, it is generally the former that changes to suit the latter.
Christopher Caldwell, Reflections on the Revolution In Europe: Immigration, Islam, and the West

The future does not look good at all across the pond.

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0 thoughts on “Christianity Versus Islam in Europe”

  1. Right wing paranoia…Exactly what I’d expect from “Taki’s blog.”
    There are so many holes in that article, it’s almost not worth pointing out.

  2. I wouldn’t call Christianity insecure, malleable, relativistic and there’s a common doctrine called Bible. Christianity is the only true and correct faith, I have sympathy for Muslims. They are a monotheistic people but by rejecting Jesus as Savior and God, they’ll be damned in Hell. It’s important to preach the Gospel to Muslims.

    1. This is more about the post Christian modern west…think Europe or maybe the North East rather than the bible belt. Not many individuals are truly Christian in England. They don’t go to church and they don’t believe Jesus is their savior. A lot of the churches have aged congregations and are closing down. That’s the reality here. It left a hole that materialism, hedonism and liberalism filled. There’s also an element of cultural relativism, colonial guilt, multi-culturalism etc etc. Hope that helps.

  3. I agree with the characterization of the west and Islam but I’m not sure how much the west will change to suit Islam…unless everybody converts to Islam, how much can it really adopt Muslim values while non-Muslims are the majority?

    1. The West doesn’t have to change. The numbers of so-called “Muslims” just aren’t there, and Muslims aren’t a monolithic group. With one or two generations, they are no different than other Euro’s.

        1. That’s already the case in places like Germany. I know this from personal experience. The bottom line is anyone who is tossing around terms like “Muslims” as a collective “them” is 99% of the time a right-wing frothing out of the mouth retard.
          Besides, there have been practitioners of Islam in Europe for nearly as long as there has been a religion of Islam.

        2. Sure but the present amount is unprecedented. Its up to 10% in some western European countries that had a negligible amount before. Mohammad (or another variation of) is one of the most common baby names in Britain each year (second in 2012 I think). Lets not deny this is something new, even if its not at this time enough to have an impact on our mainstream culture…and possibly never will be.
          I’m guessing most Muslims in Germany of of Turkish descent and Turks are already quite moderate.
          I saw a study that surveyed the attitudes of young Muslims and their parents and it found that the younger ones had more conservative attitudes. If so, its not really true that the children of the immigrants are more western and liberal or not so interested in their religion. Of course, they will be more western in some ways. I’ll try to find that study…maybe it was bullshit, I just remember reading about it.

        3. well, its between 2 and 10% in most of those countries. I think 6% overall in 2010, when Pew projected that there will be 8% in 2030. They have high birth rates now but they will come in line probably. They are quite low in some Muslim countries now.
          I’m not too concerned by those figures. Its not an issue of concern to me at this point.

        4. No Cyrus, even leftwingers realize the danger of radical Islam. And moderate Islam causes cultural displacement. This nation was built on the nails used to crucify Jesus, and those nails will melt with acid. The acid that Mohammed must have been ingesting to go on such delusional ramblings, that is.

        5. Hey Cyrus if you think Islam is not a threat to the west then why don’t you just take a stroll accompanied with a woman wearing a skirt & high heels and your dog in any of the now many “no go” zones throughout europe ( no go zones are what they call a neighborhood that is overun by muslims ) let us know after if you if you still think Islam is no threat.

        6. What a load of fucking bull shit by Cyrus, how the fuck do you explain things like this?
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGsICx6IRPk
          Islam is the religion of the dumb, low-IQ, low-brow, stupid ugly masses, infact if you come into a Muslim heavy area or space, there is a 98% chance that the vast majority of Muslims are stupid and ugly! Islam gains followers from the worst of the genetic pool of a population. It is a third world religion par excellence for third-rate brains!
          Also Islam has been in Europe the same way ticks and pests have in a forest reserve and human habitats, it has been a dangerous hostile or intrusive force that no one wants but is completely alien and invasive to avoid and block out! Don’t get me bullshit about Al Analyst and Moorish Spain, most of these “Muslims” were “whites” in the form of Celtic and Berberid people with a civilizational heritage that predated Islam. Also another big lie is that Islam saved Western civilization from decay when the West would have marched on and recovered without Islam anyway!

        7. LOL! A bunch of d-bags who have never even been to Europe, speaking as local experts on all things “Muslim”… 😀 😀 😀

        1. The Arabs preserved some of the ancient Greek texts. I think some Aristotle and some mathematics and more. They even wrote their own commentaries. Then in the middle ages these texts got to western Europe and its part of what led to the renaissance.
          I did some googling:
          1) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transmission_of_the_Classics
          See: 5. Arab translations and commentary. And 5.3. Western European transmission of Greek ideas via the Arabic tradition.
          2) http://www.amazon.com/The-House-Wisdom-Knowledge-Renaissance/dp/0143120565
          “Many of the innovations that we think of as hallmarks of Western science had their roots in the Arab world of the middle ages, a period when much of Western Christendom lay in intellectual darkness. Jim al- Khalili, a leading British-Iraqi physicist, resurrects this lost chapter of history, and given current East-West tensions, his book could not be timelier. With transporting detail, al-Khalili places readers in the hothouses of the Arabic Enlightenment, shows how they led to Europe’s cultural awakening, and poses the question: Why did the Islamic world enter its own dark age after such a dazzling flowering?”
          3) http://www.columbia.edu/~gas1/project/visions/case1/sci.2.html
          “the mathematical edifice of Copernican astronomy could not have been built, as it was finally built, by just using the mathematical information available in such classical Greek mathematical and astronomical works as Euclid’s Elements and Ptolemy’s Almagest.2 What was needed, and was in fact deployed by Copernicus (1473-1543) himself, was the addition of two new mathematical theorems. Both of those theorems were first produced some three centuries before Copernicus and were used by astronomers working in the Islamic world for the express purpose to reform Greek astronomy”
          .

  4. Actually the Muslim fertility rates in Europe is already quite low (2.2) but the native European populations is very low (1.5) according to the Islam in Europe article on wiki, which I’m not sure how good of a source it is. Pew predict the gap will narrow by 2030.
    You can’t really be mad at a group for a fertility rate of 2.2 That’s a good rate. We should have that rate.

  5. I always suspect that there is a pre-meditated ploy by the white man elites to make white man land less homogeneous.
    A 100% white society are dangerous to many elites especially dominant minorities like Jews. If you are Jews, surrounded by gentiles, the first thing you do is to flooded the country with migrants.
    Next large scale unselective migrant is also very bad for the people.The European low skilled worker such as janitor and road sweeper could have higher pay. But the rich flooded the country with foreigners claimers “no one wanted to sweep the floor”.
    Overnight, the poor’s salary fall to the level of 3rd world. Immigration from 3rd world is wage arbitration, and nothing else.
    By bringing in Muslim, the elites make the people fight among themselves. We should be discussing class struggle, but instead, everyone is talking about radical Islam. Hence, attention is diverted.
    Mass immigration is always a evil ploy by elites.
    My country Singapore use to be a very good place. Then our PAP government started receiving less votes. Next they open the flood gate and migrant who naturalize vote for the ruling party.
    Singapore political transition is slowed down. Also the rich cheers because property price is now up, wages are pulled lower.

    1. I am sincerely sorry to hear this. I used to live near Okinawa and the black soldiers there acted like goddamn animals. I mean, don’t drill instructors train the monkeys before they export them? I would assume that blacks in the military would be more disciplined but they are about as civilized as a white kid on PCP. Dont even get me started on what happens when blacks get on PCP…….
      Get those Southeast darkie monkeys out of Signapore! They are NOT Signaporean and do not deserve the rights allotted to a Signaporean. Kick them out, back to the shithole they came from,.and let those brownies destroy their own country, not yours. The British took the wrong approach in civilizing these Southeastern monkeys. Instead of indoctrination they should have opted for eugenic sterilization.
      I once visited California. Los Angeles means “the city of angels”, but jigaboos and Mexicans are NOT angels. Angels are supposed to be white and beautiful.
      I wish you the best of luck fellow human. Send the undermensch back to their own lebrensraum!

    2. Creaders I think you’re comment is very accurate, it’s a very logical explanation to what’s been going on around the world, no voter in any western country has EVER demanded mass immigration, this has been shoved down our throats by force! Mass immigration is just another tool used by the elites to slowly destroy the middle class, the only real patriotism elites have is toward their bank account.

  6. Dear Robert
    Although I believe that Islamic fundamentalism and liberal democracy are quite incompatible, I agree with Cyrus that the green peril is vastly exaggerated by Western Islamophobes. No Western country is in imminent danger of Islamicisation. Not only are Muslims in Western countries a small minority, but they are also massively underrepresented in the economic, cultural and political elite. Name one influential newspaper or broadcasting company In the West dominated by Muslims. Name one political party which they control. Name one university where radical Muslims are a majority of professors.
    However, the fact that many children of Islamic immigrants in the West don’t do very well may incline some of them to radicalism, which in their case is likely to be Islamic radicalism. Such radicals can’t take over our countries, but they can cause limited damage through terrorism or assassinations. For a while anyway, we don’t have to lie awake at night worrying about living under sharia. Islamophobia is akin to anti-Semitism in that it vastly exaggerates both the power and the malevolence of Muslims. Some Muslims may dream about a worldwide Caliphate, but for the time being it will be a dream and nothing else.
    Regards. James

    1. Really good comment. I concur. If there is a threat, it is from isolated incidents of terrorism.
      Right now there is a concern in Britain and other European countries about Muslims returning from Syria radicalized and ready to commit atrocities at home. Some Muslims have travelled there to fight- the number is in the hundreds I believe.

  7. I don’t see this as an issue of religion, but rather race and ethnicity.
    For example, in the Netherlands, Indonesian Muslims do just fine while Moroccans are quite a nuisance.
    My take is that while Muslims in Europe are certainly a nuisance and thorn in the side, they’re not the dire threat that they’re made out to be. The real, fundamental problem is that white European lands have lost their balls and their identities. If they had both, they would be just fine.

    1. Indonesian Muslims are quite secular, reason being the status quo of Indonesian are former underlings of Sukarno who worship socialism. Under Sukarno, all Islamist are hammered.
      The current elites though debased a little still aspire to the vision of Sukarno. The people follow their elites.
      Then USA uses the army and Islamist to take down Sukarno, as USA hate communism. That is when Islam started to grow stronger in Indonesia.
      Some Indonesian even despise the Malaysian way of Islam even though both are essentially Malay people.

      1. I’ve met some fanatical Indos, and Moroccans behaving badly has about as much to do with religion, as Mexican gangs in LA have to do with Christianity.

    1. Let’s see…We have 50 million Hispanics here in the U.S out of a population of 315 million, and you are fretting about 6 million “Muslims” in the EU, with a pop of 750 million?
      Really? Really?

        1. So, 19 million out of 520 million in the EU. That’s a whopping %3.65 percent.
          The only “Muslims” in the EU that I worry about are the Pakis in the U.K, but hell, that’s a homegrown British problem.

        2. I’ve spent time in the UK, and anyone who has ever dealt with Pakistanis, know all about “Pakistanis.”
          Take 1 stupid Paki + Saudi Wahabist ideology = instant asshole

        3. I’ve spent all my life in the UK and I’ve had a British Pakistani roommate, another one I was friendly with in Uni and several shopkeepers I got to know. They were all very friendly and nice, although the roommate was kind of a dick to his girlfriend sometimes. The ones I knew were actually especially friendly and likeable.
          I don’t live where they are concentrated so I can’t really comment I suppose. Some of them walk around like macho dicks (which even my roommate said) and there is informal segregation and divides where they are concentrated….but all the ones I’ve known personally have been okay.

        4. Where I’m from Liverpool, I don’t think there are many Muslims. But I loved in Manchester and there are a lot there and I used to live next to one of the main mosques in the city. I even had some actual Pakistani friends in that place. They were all nice and very friendly to me but they were definitely sexist in a with attitudes they took for granted that sound un-pc and off in the west.

        5. But unfortunately not with any Pakistani girls, who were very very attractive. There was an Indian descent girl though so that was okay.

        6. Robert, I definitely think it would be an enriching experience for you to visit Europe. Try to go to France, Germany and Italy too if you can, see what European civilisation is like first hand 😛 Why might you be coming here?

        7. damn whatever those Aryan genes are combined with, its a damn good combination. They are downright hot. And in Manchester there are lots and lots of them, especially around campus.
          One of the Pakistani girls in my class from Bradford- not hot but perfectly lovely- said one of the reasons she looked forward to going to uni was that she would have the chance to talk to and get to know some white people. I guess she’d never done that before.
          The ones I knew did not seem to be very religious.

        8. It’s probably because you are dealing with the younger generation in a Western country, as far as religiosity is concerned. Exactly why I’m not too worried about “Islam in Europe” in the long run…The only people adopting the crazy jihadi ideology seem to be the total social losers, in many cases White and Black converts…Converts to any ideology are always the worst.
          Anyhow, here’s the pic of the current Pakistani foreign minister, Hina Rabbani Khar.
          https://c1.staticflickr.com/7/6029/5954430269_dc7bc609e2_z.jpg
          And people forget, Pakistan had a female Prime Minister…We’ve never had a female President here in the U.S..
          http://i0.wp.com/www.wonderslist.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Chairperson-PPP-Benazir-Bhutto.jpg
          Of course, try explaining these things to a right-winger Islamophobic American jackass… 😀
          http://timesofpakistan.pk/pakistan/2014-06-20/top-10-attractive-pakistani-women-politicians/87428/

  8. Eurasianism and Traditionalism incorporates Islam inasmuch as possible as a junior partner against Amer-Zionist imperial occupation. Check the works of Dugin, de Benoist, Bouchet, Martin Schwartz, and Claudio Mutti.

  9. The dismissive messages here which see no threat from Islam are obviously made by people who have not seen it first hand. This sort of unconcerned attitude is exactly what Muslim extremists are counting on to establish their base in the west: that and the democratic ideal of those nations which they are using to their advantage. Over a period of six years I lived in Stockholm, Amsterdam and London. Twenty five percent of Stockholm is now Muslim. Twenty five percent of all Swedish women will be raped and 80% of the rapists will be Muslim immigrants. The most popular name for newborns in 4 European countries is now Mohammed and Britain now has 80 plus Sharia courts and more coming. 40% of Muslims born in the UK do not want democracy, religious freedom or rights for women, and they are outbreeding the native population by 3-4 to 1. The growing minorities of Muslims in London and outlying areas of Britain are offended by the teaching of evolution in high schools and so the school are caving in and dropping mention of it in biology classes. A mullah was asked on the BBC why, if he hates British society, freedoms and democracy so much, he doesnt return to his home country. His answer was that Britain is his home country and his mission, their mission, is to destroy freedom and democracy to create the new caliphate. If you resist the repressive, joyless theocratic dictatorship these pious maniacs envision and even moderate muslims increasingly desire, you are a racist or Islamophobe. Fear of these names is how they got their foothold in Sweden and are getting it in other countries. Probably too late to stop this because of the humanistic attitudes of the host countries. Dismiss this threat if you wish. They count on it. More and more human rights organizations though, see radical Islam as the greatest global threat to societies today.

      1. I believe that about as far as I can piss…Now, care to break down the demographics of those “Muslims,” or are you just that stupid?

    1. The thing that sucks is Muslim women are quite beautiful. This may be weird coming from another woman’s mouth, but I’ve seen some Egyptian, Algerian, Moroccan, Afghan and Iranian women and they are quite beautiful. Unfortunately, the men are brutish, backwards, violent and ugly.
      Islam is definitely not compatible with European standards. In the UK and Sweden they try to use politically correct terms to cover up crimes. For example, if a Somali rapes a woman, they just say “foreigner abuses women.” If a Paki rapes school girls, they just say “Asian ‘plays’ with Girls” This Jew speak is what will destroy Europe. Greece, Spain and Italy are already being raped by these Pisslamists. I urge people to support Golden Dawn and EDL and even the Texan Crusader Society. Help them out to help whites.
      Robert do you think Europe is going to become an Atwood dystopia or an Orwellian one?

      1. The thing that sucks is Muslim women are quite beautiful. This may be weird coming from another woman’s mouth, but I’ve seen some Egyptian, Algerian, Moroccan, Afghan and Iranian women and they are quite beautiful.
        Most lesbians have a thing for that “Mediterranean” look.
        http://gawker.com/5364536/did-this-congresswoman-have-lesbian-affair-with-a-turkish-spy
        Unfortunately, the men are brutish, backwards, violent and ugly.
        LOL! Never stopped me from getting laid, ’cause were hung like horses.
        Islam is definitely not compatible with European standards.
        Islams just a religion, and a related one to Christianity. It’s been in Europe almost since it’s incarnation. If anything, it is Europe that is going to be changing Islam as a practiced religion, and not the other way around.
        If you are saying Middle Eastern culture is not “compatible” with European culture, I would actually agree. Same goes for East Asian culture in Europe, African culture, etc.
        I urge people to support Golden Dawn and EDL and even the Texan Crusader Society. Help them out to help whites.
        You kinda lost me a “Jew speak” there…

        1. It is a dystopian novel called Hndmaids Tale written by Margaret Atwood in which the christians overthrow the us govt. and install totalitarian regime and it has to do with womens fight for agency

        2. Are you of Arab descent?
          Its true the women are beautiful but some of the men are handsome too, especially Pakistani and Afghan. High cheek bones, good features etc and some of those Afghans have green eyes. I hardly think ugly fathers would be producing beautiful daughters and sister would be beautiful but brother ugly. Doesn’t really make sense.

        1. oh you said you were hung like horses meaning Muslim men…or something. I can’t be bothered finding it.
          It seems strange you are arguing against generalising Muslims but then you hate arabs generally. what’s your beef?

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