Do Desire for Women and Hatred for Them Go Together?

Steve wrote:

…not that desire of women and hatred of them usually go together.

You know, I went to that PUAhate site that was famous due to the Eliot Rodger case. There were all these incel guys screaming and yelling and complaining about women. They had a right to complain as women were treating these guys pretty horribly. They would go and get a new job, buy new clothes, buy a new car, go to the gym, do all the crap you are supposed to do to get a woman, and it was all to no avail. No woman would even look at them. There was the usual, “They only like assholes, they don’t like nice guys.” Then they would post pictures of these porn stars and beautiful models, and they would be drooling all over them like wow I sure would like to fuck that! I was thinking, “Wait, I thought these guys hated women?” I told a friend of mine about that and he said, “Well, that’s just normal. All guys are like that.” “Like what?” “Well all normal guys pretty much hate women because of how they act, but then on the other hand, if they are heterosexual, they are also horny as Hell and they want to fuck them really bad.” So there is that desire for women going together with hatred for them thing. Personally, I would prefer to get outside the misogyny thing as I think it goes nowhere and is not productive, adaptive or helpful and it’s a lot more fun to love them than to hate them. But I get where misogynists are coming from. Misogyny is not mysterious, unfortunately.

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25 thoughts on “Do Desire for Women and Hatred for Them Go Together?”

  1. Come on dude. I corrected this to ‘NOT that desire of women and hatred of them usually go together”.
    What i meant is that most men desire women but don’t hate them, which is true. However, the ones that hate them often desire them and often bitterness and resentment are born out of frustrated desire. NOT that that is the only cause of misogyny. It could be related to abuse or mistreatment.

    1. I think the male norm in the world is some form of misogyny. It’s just the way men are. And if you look around the world at how women are treated by men, the theory makes sense. A friend of mine openly admits to being a misogynist and says that most men are just like him. Not sure if he is correct, but human men in general seem to be angry at or disdain females on some level. Not that they don’t or can’t love them too. But I have often felt that some background level of misogyny is a “normal guy” type thing. Women are very different from men and those differences tend to drive men nuts, so it makes sense.
      I suppose a lot of feminists would agree with me. The argument of feminists is that human society is patriarchy in which some level of misogyny is encoded. Feminists say that most or all cultures are misogynistic to one degree or another and this has been going on forever. Unfortunately, I bet they are right.

      1. I think misogyny needs to be more clearly defined by them. Its used too loosely and vaguely for me.
        I don’t think its normal for men to hate women. I think about myself and the men i know and it doesn’t seem to me to be true at all that men hate women. That’s all I can say really. That’s where I’m coming from.
        I agree that the differences can drive men nuts, especially men with nagging or emotionally volatile spouses…..but that doesn’t mean they hate women.
        Plus remember that most men experience women, not just as spouses but as mothers, daughters, grandmothers and friends…so a troublesome girlfriend doesn’t tend to inform ones whole view and feeling about women. Even in relationships and sexual encounters, the experiences are often very positive.
        Angry at them or disdain them ‘on some level’…not sure….i wouldn’t say so really, but on some level is quite vague.
        Having feminists agree with you is not necessarily a sign you are right (what was that you wrote about their battle against reality? :-P). Individual guys that are dicks and think all men are secretely the same doesn’t sound like a great source either.
        You could have a good point and the feminists could all have a good point. I just don’t feel that most men hate or dislike women. It doesn’t seem that way to me. maybe I’m naive.

        1. And of course, I can only speak for my society, not Muslim societies or Hindu or Japanese or American. Just my little bubble of scouse society.

        2. and of course i’m not denying that there are women haters and dislikes and mistrusters around here…I just dont think its the default.

        3. Dude! We have always oppressed them, always treated them like second class citizens. Nevertheless, I think many to most men still loved their wives, daughters, sisters and mothers. It’s complicated.
          Feminists are right about some things. Human males pretty much treat human females pretty bad, around the world. We’ve always ruled over them and dominated them and not treated them right. And if you study history, this has been the case all down through time. Have you read any books about Ancient Greece? Do you have any idea how women were treated in that greatest of all societies?
          I agree with feminists about this.
          Some societies are just flat out misogynistic. What do you call Sub Saharan Africa, Latin America, China, South Asia, the Arab World, and the Muslim World in general? Look at Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan. If it ain’t misogyny, then what the Hell is it?

        4. I can’t really argue with what you’ve just written, can I?
          But I just don’t feel that in my society, its normal for men to hate or dislike women. I don’t know how men in the past felt…but I agree with this:
          “We have always oppressed them, always treated them like second class citizens. Nevertheless, I think many to most men still loved their wives, daughters, sisters and mothers. It’s complicated.”

        5. As for ancient Greece, I think Aristotle or somebody came up with the theory that men provide the baby and the female just incubates it…hence the man was the most important one, even in reproduction.

        6. I think men probably did a lot of things just because it was culturally normal and they could. They were in an advantageous position and they exploited their advantages and kept them going. There’s was probably also a lot of sexual exploitation.
          None of that really implies hatred of women, does it?
          Plus the worst abuses were probably done by the more sociopathic individuals, which is usually the case.

        7. If you treat people like shit, you don’t like them very much. If you love people, you don’t treat them like shit.
          “We are treating these people like crap, but we don’t hate them or anything like that,” doesn’t fly very well with me.

        8. I don’t think women were universally treated like shit. They were probably often treated all right; just occupied a second class position.
          If you are talking about domestic violence, how common was it? How common is it? And does even that really imply hatred of women?
          Some men are abusive to women but those same kinds of people are equally abusive to men, given the chance. Are they misogynists? Do they specifically hate women? Some people just like the power and control of having somebody to boss around and hit- the more sociopathic individuals. A society where these types of individuals are empowered is dangerous.
          Some men (like in Indian domestic violence) will just hit their wife because they are frustrated with her due to their socialised expectations of how she should behave or due to what they’ve observed in their own childhood. They just think its okay to hit them when angry as that’s what they’ve learned. I’m not even sure that means they *hate* women. Now I’m on more controversial ground.

        9. What I think I’m arguing here about domestic violence in a very patriarchal society like India or such societies of the past. Most of it is either:
          1) the worst abuses- the real bad systematic bullying and abuse is carried out by a minority of individuals with a certain psychological profile (perhaps sociopaths) who lack empathy and are either hateful or in some way enjoy being abusive. Such people may hate women but if they do they may equally hate men. They are not the norm or the average man.
          2) other men occasionally hit their wife out of anger because they have learned that it is okay to do so or they have copied it as a normal response to anger. A lot of men get very angry at a woman during an argument, but whether you hit her or restrain yourself may depend on what you’ve observed and learnt in childhood and how accepted it is in your society. Once this moment passes, it doesn’t mean you hate women.
          I’m sure my dad had to restrain himself sometimes and that I respect and it influences me. If I’d seen him him my mum, would I be more likely to hit out or be physical in anger? Yes.

        10. Funny thing about Iran. It’s under strict Islamic law, but women are actually quite different from those in other Muslim countries. They’re often highly educated and accomplished in business and the professions. If you look at Iranian women, they seem very vibrant compared with women in other Muslim countries. They do some stylin’ things with their headscarves. They wear jeans. A few years back, there was an Iranian female race car driver who was something of a superstar. They’ve also recently started sending women to the Olympics. A woman was a celebrated martyr of the Iranian protest movement. I suspect that there are social forces in Iran getting ready to blow the lid off, and that women are at the center.

  2. Men in the past probably didn’t hate women but they probably just believed they were inferior and thought it was okay to control them. Like I said, I’m only guessing and can only really talk about this time and place.

  3. Whatever society you grow up in you tend to take as normal and accept. Probably men didn’t even question the second class status of women and just took it as natural and believed it was natural and right. Again, doesn’t mean they hated them.

  4. What you’re seeing here is a biased audience. Men who are able to get a woman are happy and don’t have any reason to go online communing with other men over how happy they are with women. It’s when a problem arises for someone that they feel the need to vent. These men complaining about women are the ones who strike out a lot and have been hurt as a result. Of course they still want a woman biologically, but they’ve been rejected so many times they can’t bring themselves to actually trust a woman. Many women get like this about men, too, when they’ve been rejected a lot or had a lot of relationships that ended poorly. My mother was like that, she ascribed to the “men are pigs who needs them” doctrine but as soon as a dashing cowboy started courting her she was all over him, it was gross. XP
    So no, I don’t think loving and hating women go hand in hand. I think that rejection is hard for people to deal with and leads to hatred, but regardless your biology doesn’t change.

    1. This is the typical female response. Any man complaining about women obviously isn’t getting laid or can’t get laid. But that is so untrue! Because many of the biggest players of all are the worst misogynists you ever met!
      And I happen to have a gf right now, and until recently, I actually had 2 gf’s. Which is not unusual. In my life, I have dated maybe 200 women and girls. So as you can see, I can’t get laid! And not only that, but it’s a lifelong condition! I understand females very well and have had a universe of great experiences with them.
      ALL men have problems with women, all of them. It’s universal.

      1. Yes, because you’ve personally met every man and asked him about his romantic life and how he views women. Not that it isn’t a common problem, I’m sure it is. But universal?
        Also I’m of that opinion because pretty much the only misogynists I’ve ever witnessed in action were on Red Pill Reddit, and most of them were complaining about how they couldn’t get laid. The guys I’ve known in real life weren’t misogynistic. I can’t really recall any of them who was. And all each of us can really do is speak from experience, right? What makes your experience more valid than mine is?

      2. Women get together and complain about Men all the time. So they must hate Men?
        The real problem Men have with Women is scarcity of the ones they desire. Men, mostly, want 18, younger for the adventurous, to 26 year old Women. They are a very, very small percentage of the population. Especially since the White population is plummeting and older Men also select for younger
        Woman also have somewhat of the same problem of desirable Men but age is not as big a factor so they have a much larger pool to choose from.

  5. OH, a final thought: it’s the same way with friendship. A lot of people are loners because they feel like the world is full of terrible people as a result of their experiences, and they become generally misanthropic. But that doesn’t mean they don’t get lonely.

  6. I think hatred of women is taught, and largely due to sex-neg traditions. If the dominant view of society is sex-neg yet males have a deep desire for females, the sex-neg aspect is sublimated into hatred of women. A lot of sexualized violence is from men with repressed backgrounds. Crimony, look at the combination of misogyny and repression in all of the Abrahamic religions. It’s all Eve’s fault.
    Then there’s India. Women are treated horribly, but it’s of a piece with the elite being entitled to treat everyone else, male or female, horribly. And that’s also religion-based.
    I don’t think that strict gender roles in certain non-western, or pre-western, societies necessarily constitutes oppression. Sometimes it is protective, or based on a sacred aspect of femininity. Foregoing agency for the sake of protection, essentially legal minor status, is a social contract that works for a lot of women. Legal equality for women was implemented in Japan, but Japanese women by and large choose feminine ambitions and minimal participation in public life. They’re voluntarily staying in traditional, or semi-traditional, gender roles. Mental health statistics from Japan indicate that the women are in better shape than the men are. From the outside, Japan looks like a very gender-imbalanced society, but it seems that Japanese women know something we don’t.

  7. Misogynists aren’t born, they’re created. I don’t believe anybody comes straight out the womb with a hatred or fear of women — such feelings are formed through negative experiences with women.
    I wouldn’t consider myself a misogynist, I just don’t think women are the best thing since sliced bread like most heterosexual men do! I’m happy to go without sex and contact with women. They don’t bother me so I don’t bother them.
    I basically think women should be treated like men — and that means accepting responsibility and consequences for heir actions. No “pussy pass” for when they mess up.
    I really think gender feminists and right-wingers have similar views on women: they both make them out to be special; in need of special protection (chivalry/trigger warnings etc); both think they are perpetually innocent; both basically put them on a pedestal.

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