"The Suppression of Will in Islam and Hinduism," by Dota

Dota just sent me this piece and asked me if I wanted to run it. It is very nice! Enjoy, this one will really make you put on your thinking cap.

The Suppression of Will in Islam and Hinduism

by Dota

I’ve often wondered why Islam was able to make spectacular gains in India whereas Christian missionaries have often struggled to attract converts. One possible explanation might be that Islam has maintained a longer presence in India, spanning over a thousand years which saw the rise and fall of various Muslim dynasties. European Christian presence in contrast has been sporadic and short lived. Yet I feel that another explanation must suffice, one that accounts for the contouring of the Islamic faith along the Hindu psyche. This necessarily leads us to the conclusion that both of these religions possess certain attributes in common, as we shall see.
I’ve written about Hindu ethics in detail over the last three years and I maintain that the most salient characteristic of Hinduism is it’s suppression of the human will. Hindu ethics preclude intention and hence ignore the rational agency of an intelligent being. For further reading, please read the article here. As Arthur Danto pointed out in the 70s, the ancient Hindu philosophers never saw the difference between knowledge and its application; a fundamental flaw in Indian epistemology.
Plato believed that morality was predicated on the knowledge of the good. In other words, people behaved morally when they possessed an understanding of moral behavior. Likewise they behaved badly when they were ignorant of morality.
Yet the crucial question which the ancient Hindus failed to ask is this: Why do people behave unethically when they possess sufficient knowledge of moral injunctions?
In response to this question Western philosophy developed what we refer to today as “the will.” To paraphrase Danto, the will is the applicative mechanism that bridges the discrepancy between knowledge of the good and action. What does this mean? Perhaps an illustration is in order. Suppose you are driving through a residential zone with a speed limit of 40 kph. You see the speed limit sign yet roll through the neighborhood at 80 kph. You have seen the sign and are aware of the speed limit (knowledge of the good) yet you willfully choose to ignore it.
You have exercised your rational autonomy to act in a fashion contrary to what you know is good. Liberation in Hindu philosophy is described by the Upanishads as a union with Brahman (the ultimate reality) where the only sensation one experiences is no sensation; a passive bliss. The Upanishads use the analogy of a drop returning to the ocean symbolizing the ultimate surrender of the will and one’s own identity.
Islam’s relationship with free will is rather complicated. Despite Muslim apologists claims to the contrary, the Islamic religion is mired with contradictions (which is normal for any religion) chief among which is the simultaneous endorsement of both free will and predestination.
The Catholic Church in contrast has always adopted the free will position despite agonizing over the philosophical dilemma of Judas’s betrayal: that if Judas was merely doing God’s will by fulfilling the prophecy where Christ would be crucified and mankind redeemed, how then is he blameworthy? Nevertheless the Church’s position was clear: Mankind possessed freewill.
Unlike Hinduism, Islamic theology addresses individuals who possess knowledge of the good yet choose not to act on it. Unlike Hinduism, Islamic ethics account for an individual’s intent that binds the agent to his course of action, regardless of the outcome. This is illustrated in the following Hadith: Two men are engaged in a duel where one slays the other. Which one goes to hell? Muhammad’s companions stated that the victorious man would burn in hell since he had committed murder. Muhammad then corrected them by stating that BOTH men would burn in hell, for the slain man INTENDED to commit murder, he was just unsuccessful in his aim.
During the Abbasid dynasty of the 8th century, a school of Muslim Arab philosophers called the Mutazilites gained the Caliph’s favor. These philosophers were smitten by Greek philosophy and held steadfastly in favor of free will. The school declined after the death of Abdul Jabbar, one of its major proponents, according to Wikipedia. The Asherite movement eventually replaced the Mutazilites and advocated the philosophy of occasionalism; that man would be judged solely on the basis of intention as his actions had no power to alter the world since only God possessed that power.
But the ultimate case for predestination is made by the classical sources of Islam, the Quran and hadith (Muhammad’s sayings) and hence mainstream Islam gravitates towards that position in most cases. Islam has a suppressing effect on the will in other more direct ways. The word Islam literally means “surrender.” But to whom? To the will of God. What is God’s will? That man live life a certain way, and Islamic tradition dictates how a man should and shouldn’t eat, how he must have sex, what he may and may not wear, how he must bathe, how he must walk etc…
Of the three Abrahamic religions Islam is possibly the most intrusive, perhaps even more so than Judaism, but I digress. While Islam may not be as ritualistic as Hinduism, it’s long list of orthopraxic practices that govern even the most mundane motions of daily life serve as an effective substitute for the Hindu convert.
The Indian’s life precludes will. Traditionally, his caste determines his occupation and his choice of spouse. When he hits puberty he receives his twice born status if he belongs to the top three Aryan castes. His parents find him a spouse and he dutifully reproduces. The Indian’s life is planned out for him before he is an embryo. The weight of the community crushes the individual’s agency. I recall my mother would often remark that we were lucky to practice a religion like Islam which kept us away from alcohol and hedonism. What she failed to realize is that one doesn’t need Islam to keep away from vice, but merely sheer human will.

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52 thoughts on “"The Suppression of Will in Islam and Hinduism," by Dota”

  1. Amazingly written article especially this portion “The Indian’s life is planned out for him before he is an embryo. The weight of the community crushes the individual’s agency.” It rings the truth.
    In my experience, to truly enjoy free will, one must have the courage to face adversities and unfavorable situations with a smile. That’s something Western culture promotes at an individual and society level.

    1. Will in Islam is essentially bent in the way of Jihad.And the purpose of Jihad is to attain Heaven or Jannah, which is sensual place full of big bosomed white virgins and rivers of alcohol. It is essentially a warrior ethic much like that of the Vikings but more successful.
      It is important to understand this and then one can see that when it comes to popularity the viking meme did not spread beyond the borders of Scandinavian but Islam broke out of Arabia and took over a good chunk of the minds of the brown Caucasian race. Not all as the Hinduism was able to repel the Jihad but enough of the brown caucasian race is now within the grip of this ideology. Why?
      The Key is a unique style of prayer. Let us look at this prayer method which the Vikings did not have and so were largely unsuccessful in getting their religion past the Christian princes of Europe. True, Islam was also not successful with the christian princes of Europe, but that was because of white christian princely superiority in war. Once that was established the brown caucausians turned to Allah as to how the infidel could beat their armies so succesfully.
      Two solutions were offered once the west dismantled the caliphate. A moment of true history for muslims. How could Allah’s organisation on earth be destroyed?
      One solution came from Turkey and that was to buy the weapons of the West and beat them using these weapons. This strategy failed.
      The second was one was to go deeper into islam and Abdul Wahab proposed this strategy and with the finding of oil in Arabia, this was the most successful response, but nerveless, this strategy still was unable to undo what the west had done to Dar Al Islam or the lands of Islam. Still, we see today that American Presidents like Bush will kiss the Saudi King and the latest one will bow to him and even wears a ring with the Shahad written on it.
      So it has been through oil exploration and an application of Wahhabi doctrine with the military success in Arabia of the house of suad that we see the most successful response to western superiority in war. The three elements once brought together have created a successful modern theocracy in Sunni Saudi Arabia.
      Still let us look at prayer the cornerstone of the islamic imperialistic thrust to convert the brown caucasian to this religion. (Blacks and Mongoloids are less efffected and the whites not at all as their is no real strong white countries who are islamic just a a few small countries in the Caucasus mountains).
      The Eid al-Adha, the Islamic “Sacrifice Feast” has the character of a practice operation. Often the slaughtering is even done in the presence of children (boys), which adds to the hardening of these children.
      These children are used to seeing throats cut. They are used to the idea that apostasy leads to execution, which also has a military aspect: it is similar to the punishment for desertion.
      If you look further, a mass open prayer, like the recent one in Washington, is a symbolic siege by an army. A show of strength to raise fear in the enemy and cause him to surrender voluntarily, etc.
      It is male only affair like that of an army and involves the same movements and the same invocations. It has the army military look and feel. I once participated in this ritual at the mosque voluntarily and I could not believe how nonspiritual it was. And that is the key it is not spiritual at all. It is an army training method but dressed in the garb of prayer!
      Prayer to Allah is the key to the success of the Arabs with the conversion of the brown caucasian. And this practice of bringing up the soldier of allah begins at birth:
      The first practice to do is to make the adhâh in the ear of the baby, so that the first words that the baby hears is the name of Allâh , and the kalima.
      It is to be given straight after the birth, or very soon afterwards as he, the prophet of islam, did with his grandson al-Husayn, as is related by Abu Raafi’ who said,
      “I saw the Prophet give the adhâh for prayer in the ear of al-Husayn ibn Alî when his mother Fâtimah gave birth to him,” (Tirmidhî)
      Jami` at-Tirmidhi is one of the writers of the Sunna or tradition of the prophet. So he is an authority and this sunna is where such training originates from the time of birth of a child. Imam Tirmidhi was born in the year 209 A.H. during the reign of the Abbasid Khalifa Ma’mun al-Rashid.
      With further training in prayer five times a day of the life of muslim male is planned for him and he grows up a soldier of Allah. This is one of the reasons why it is so hard for the muslim male to fit into the life of the west. From the very beginning he is a soldier doing soldier rituals and learning of war strategies against the infidel at the mosque.
      The glorious life of Jihad (praise be to Allah) awaits him and even today we hear of young men brought up in Yorkishire England, with yorkshire accents, going to jihad in Syria. Allah be praised. This could have been predicted at birth. Their life was planned for them by Allah and this is what they do in jihad. In this we see that the method of training is so strong that the might of western manners and customs have no effect whatsoever on the young child. This training is indeed the strongest method of mind control ever devised. It is simply superb in controlling a young child from the moment of birth right up the moment when he dies in jihad for the cause of allah.
      This Islmaic ideology is so powerful and so strong it destroys the carrier, the brown caucasian male, and so even completely eradicates even his will to live on earth. He would rather die and go to Jannah. Hence the boast of Jihadis. “We love death more than you love life.” Allah be praised for the life of the mujaahid is a glorious one.

    2. @Pranav,
      Dota is a confused freak. He doesn’t know jackshit about either Hinduism or Islam. He is simply pretending to be smart about subjects which he has no real understanding of.
      I debated with this fool sometime back in previous threads on this site. He could never answer me properly. All he could do is run away by making escapist comments.
      He doesn’t even understand Islam properly, his own faith. Look at him, he thinks Islam is not a bad religion, then why is he not following it?? Islam is a piece of shit. The Prophet Muhammad was a paedophile. He raped a 9 year old girl called Aisha and guess what? The Quran claims that Muhammad has sublime morals, and that he is an example for the entire world to follow.
      Disgusting. You know what that means? It means that Quran sanctions paedophilia and that it is permitted for Muslims to do. Simply because the Prophet did it. Muhammad even claimed that he got some of his quranic revelations when he was in bed with child-wife, Aisha!! What a pervert, eh?
      And this is the joker that Dota thinks is a man of God!!

      1. Incase you are unaware I am following the blog for the past 4 or more years and commented occasionally in a different ID and yes i have witnessed the flame wars between involving various commenters like Yours, DOTA, BAG, BS/SS/Dinky/Zulu/now Human Sh*t as well between Huax/Hacienda/Xera. Dota clearly explained Islam varies from country to country and it can be defined by what is practiced in that particular country,
        In case you are aware of the rape fiasco that’s in the headlines for the past few years(currently in a hot spotlight) in our country, the victims and criminals were of both the religions.Sticking to your point of view if Islam is a criminal creed where’s your so called Hindu morals???
        ILOR, time for you boy!!!!

        1. but why not covert toe islam then? why are you holding back? you love it so much and yet you do not convert. why?!
          Is it the islamic penis? Are you afraid of losing your foreskin?! Be like Dota and convert and be circumcised! Then your words will carry weight.
          As it is you are just mixed up and uncircumcised! Get the islamic penis and go to heaven (islamic heaven is called janna or jannat) where you will be able to use it to have sex with 72 virgins who will miracalously become virgins again after sex. And you can use this islamic penis for eternity. Why wait? Convert to islam now!

  2. Schopenhauer used the word “will” as a human’s most familiar designation for the concept that can also be signified by other words such as “desire,” “striving,” “wanting,” “effort,” and “urging.” A quote from article in Wikipedia.
    Now according to the philosopher Schopenhauer the intellect must be in proportion to the will in order to produce a result which is suitable for the person concerned.So a modest intellect and a modest will will produce a happy result. But in Islam we see exactly the opposite. The UMMA or the the Muslim community have tremendous will. The will is great indeed. Indeed it wishes for the whole world. It craves the whole world as adherants and all their possessions.
    Hadith Bukhari 2996, “… [Mohammed] said, ‘Become Muslim and you will be safe. Know that the earth belongs to Allah AND His Messenger
    However, the intellect through inbreeding marriages with cousins is small. Indeed the physical size of the brain is proportionally smaller than the body it serves for the muslims than is the case for the infidel, a condition known as microencephalisation. This produces an effect on global stage, which we see as the modern jihad of today. A largely ineffective resource hunt for the world and its riches. How do we know this? The infidels get richer and the muslims get poorer.
    Once a stronger similarity between the will and its intellect is struck by the umma only then will the resource hunt of life be sustainable in its operations and thus successful to the extent that the umma is not getting poorer but making steady progress.

    1. ” Dota clearly explained Islam varies from country to country and it can be defined by what is practiced in that particular country, ” quote from Pranav.
      It varies to the degree that islam is not being followed. Where it is followed perfectly( for Shia islam is Iran and for Sunni Islam Afghanistan and Saudi) we are close to the best humans can do in present circumstances as regards following islam.
      Dota can not claim the culture that is not so effected by islam, as in say Turkey, is a good example of islam. That is a westernised model and hence the credit for that portion of turkish thinking which is in tune with the golden rule of the west, women’s rights etc should go to learning lessons taught by Western teachers
      Dota never quotes from authoritive schools of Islamic jurisprudence such as the Salafi school etc, and neither does he quote from the respected scholars of islam such as Ibn Katheer. Hence his work finds not favour whatsoever with educated muslims. It finds favour with Hindu bashers!
      And this is the ultimate aim of his endeavours to advance Islam by taking credit for good things for islam and for bashing Hinduism which has low value in terms of not being understood in the west or patronised by the political elite as is Islam. Since both hindusim and islam are not understood he has a field day making stuff up.
      However, his enterprise can easily be dismantled.
      ON this thread most of his thesis has already been dismantled with quotes from the Koran and from no less an authority on islam as the great scholar Al Ghazali; and a genuine attempt to understand the role of Karmic implications in human activity and thought.

  3. Hey Dota this is kind of a personal question, but are you still a devotee to Islam or are you developing interest in Islam? Kind of curious, since I wasn’t sure whether you were an ex Christian or ex Hindu. Thank you and well done! The piece was written well and especially enjoyed the final paragraph, which gave a summation of a Hindu’s life 🙂

    1. ” but are you still a devotee to Islam or are you developing interest in Islam?”
      I identify as a cultural Muslim more than a religious one. I don’t practice the religion much anymore, just gradually drifted away from it over the years. I don’t think it’s a bad religion, all I’m saying is that I’m not inclined towards it anymore.
      “The piece was written well and especially enjoyed the final paragraph, which gave a summation of a Hindu’s life”
      Forgive me, I should have been clear here, but this was a summation of the Indian’s life, whether Hindu, Sikh, or Muslim. Non Hindu Indians still practice caste occupations, even today. And even when they don’t, group identity still trumps individualism. I state this as an observation and not a judgement.

      1. Thank you for the reply 🙂 I was just curious, since I respect both you and Robert greatly and wanted some further insight, regarding your religious/cultural views.

        1. Question by an Atheist: “How can you Muslims claim that Islam is the correct Religion when most of you are just simply blind followers who were born in Muslim families? …Most Muslims are only Muslim because their parents are Muslim, and likewise, most Christians are only Christians because their parents are Christian. What makes you so certain that your Religion is better than others when you have never tried other Religions?”
          So that was the question posed by an atheist in the video?
          The answer was to mentally step out of Islam and then step back in as explained by Ghazali.
          Let us step out. In the world of today Pedophilia is a crime and is punishable in most of the world by imprisonment. We have stepped out of Islam. This sees right to me. We have stepped out of Saudi Arabia and we have stepped out Iran where the marriage age of a man is adult and of a female it is nine.
          Surely we should ask about the standards of morality of the founder of a particular faith. His morality includes pedophilia. When I step out as asked of me by Ghazali I find a world in which such abhorrent behaviour calls for imprisonment. I think I prefer this world to the world of Islam.
          We know that Mohammad was a peadophile who married a child at the age of six. He of consummated the marriage to put it politely or to put it factually child raped the nearly nine year Aisha when he himself was at the age of 53.
          Now do you XMan want to follow a religion started by such a man? Step out of Islam as Ghazali wants you to do mentally and ask would you allow your daughter to be married to a man who is fifty three years of age.
          In the hadiths even Abu Baker protested at the thought of such a thing!

        2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WWkiuW3Ubs
          This is good video as it shows western tourist people drinking camel urine from bottles in some arab country. This is of course due to the instruction of the prophet in Sahih Bukari ;though sometimes it is mixed with camel milk as per the prophet’s instructions .
          For this tourist stepping into Islam as per Ghazali’s mental exercise means a new diet.
          A halal diet which avoids things like pork but accepts as halal, meaning allowed in Arabic, the products of the camel including meat, urine and milk. Finally of course it ends up with kissing camels (never mind the SARS virus!), and a camel beauty contest .
          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vd_PZkkhByk
          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5bSIX7w4Dw

  4. We have now looked a little at will in islam as an instrument for conquest as the world belongs to allah and his prophet. But what of Hinduism.
    Karma means action. There are three types of karma or actions the living entity of jiva can perform.
    (1) Karma: those which elevate, (2) Vikarma: those which degrade and (3) Akarma: those which create neither good nor bad reactions and thus lead to liberation.
    In Hinduism individual is defined as the container of the freewill. The body and mind are instruments of this individual (called Jiva) to manifest its freewill. Whenever the jiva (using its freewill) decides on a course of action, a part of the action is one of the two contributors to the current result and a part of it accumulates to a store of the effects of past actions. This store is solely responsible for the situations that the jiva faces in life.
    The freewill can be considered as the input and the result can be considered as the output. So, the input results in a karmic store state change and as an output we see manifest in the material world.

  5. “I’ve often wondered why Islam was able to make spectacular gains in India whereas Christian missionaries have often struggled to attract converts. One possible explanation might be that Islam has maintained a longer ”
    Jihad over a long period to time.
    However,after more than one millennium of jihad from 715 up to 1761, more than 70 percent of the population of India remained Hindu.Unlike the Zoroastrian Persians, the Hindus never surrendered to the Muslim tyrants. They waged a relentless and violent struggle against the Muslims. When fortune favored them, the Hindus returned in almost equal measure, the jihad of the Muslims and struck fear in Muslim hearts for Hindu warriors like Krishna Deva Raya, Rani Durgavati, Shivaji, and Sikhs (who are a Hindu sect) like Guru Gobind Singh, Banda Singh Bahadur and many others. The reason why the Hindus survived thirteen centuries of savage Muslim jihad was that they learnt that the art of survival in face of a Muslim attack was giving back almost as much as they got from the Muslims.
    “I’ve written about Hindu ethics in detail over the last three years and I maintain that the most salient characteristic of Hinduism is it’s suppression of the human will. Hindu ethics preclude intention and hence ignore the rational agency of an intelligent being.”
    Will is dealt with via the doctrine of Karma. Karma means literally action. A good summation of karmic understanding is as you sow so you reap. This spans many lifetimes and is included in the doctrine of transmigration. Hence hindu ethics do NOT PRECLUDE intentions as that is the basis of all actions and these actions are actions which include consequences, causing reflection in the living entity or jiva.
    There are three types of karma or actions the living entity of jiva can perform.
    (1) Karma: those which elevate, (2) Vikarma: those which degrade and (3) Akarma: those which create neither good nor bad reactions and thus lead to liberation. Clearly knowledge of action here is subdvided in order to pass the understanding of a particular action into the realm of its consequences.

  6. “Yet the crucial question which the ancient Hindus failed to ask is this: Why do people behave unethically when they possess sufficient knowledge of moral injunctions?”
    Ancient indian philosphers were keenly aware of action and the consequences of actions. They asked this question when subdiviing human behaviour and also the types of humans who show different types of behaviour. Since humans are different and have developed their spiritual life in different ways they act differently even when given a similar piece of knowledge. The act according their nature which is subdivided into tamas, rajas, and sattva; in other words they act according to the mode of ignorance or tamas, or passion or rajas or through goodness sattva. However, life is complex and at times one indulges in all of these modes of behaviour and so the thread of life is very tangled indeed.
    “Islam’s relationship with free will is rather complicated.”
    No it is not complicated. You have just put your own slant on things which is clearly not there in the original sources of Islamic teaching. Why have you done this? In order to make Islam more palatable to the audience of the west. Clearly you have an agenda.
    Will is defined as the will of Allah. Not a blade of grass moves without the will of Allah. Even in science buring of wool is happening due to the will of Allah. To have it another way is to go against the will of Allah. The cause is not in the science of wool burning mechanism but in the will of Allah.
    Al-Ghazali presented this theory of causality in order to allow room for the existence of miracles that were associated with the prophets, without resorting to allegorical interpretations as the philosophers did. One of the miracles that he chose as an example was that of Prophet Ibrahim. The story was that his people attempted to burn him for breaking their idols by throwing him into fire but no burning took place. In the Qur’an (21:69) it was Allah’s will that the fire would not harm Ibrahim. al-Ghazali maintained that Allah was the agent of every action, either directly or indirectly (i.e. by the angels).
    The whole islamic world moves under the sway of Allah’s dictates. It is all the will of Allah. Everything is done under the sway of inshallah (will of Allah) fatalism. The individual is slave to allah and this is show even by names such as Abdullah meaning a slave to Allah.
    Numerous bit of evidence will be presented to show this from the Islamic sources. A very small selection of evidence is presented here.
    Islam teaches on should not bother warning the disbelievers. Allah has made it impossible for them to believe so that he can torture them forever after they die.
    From Koran 2:7 Allah hath sealed their hearing and their hearts, and on their eyes there is a covering. Theirs will be an awful doom.
    Can you see it is not up to you whether you believe in Allah or not it is up to him. He ordained it that way?
    More doom:
    For disbelievers is a painful doom. 2:104
    Those who disbelieve the revelations of Allah … promise them a painful doom. 3:21
    Give tidings (O Muhammad) of a painful doom to those who disbelieve. 9:3
    Those who vex the messenger of Allah, for them there is a painful doom. 9:61
    Theirs will be a boiling drink and painful doom because they disbelieved. 10:4
    And finally if you do not believe in Allah’s doom for you guess what your are doomed to go to hell:
    Those who believe not in the Hereafter, for them We have prepared a painful doom. 17:10

  7. “Of the three Abrahamic religions Islam is possibly the most intrusive, perhaps even more so than Judaism, but I digress……”
    Notice the indian islamic immigrant , Dota, uses a new term. A term known as Abrahamic religions. A term which has only come to light since muslim immigrants moved to the West. This term is very new and was never used in the west by Christians and Jews who share a common scripture, the Bible. These are the biblical religions. Now the term Abrahamic religion is certainly not found in any hadith or islamic scripture. It is that new. It a term of politics to present a kind of shared brotherhood of religions with the aim of advancing the cause of islam. It is a term of political deceit.
    “The Indian’s life precludes will.”
    Really?! How come I, an indian hindu, have THE WILL to refute you?! Think logically before your write something as easy to refute as that.
    “Traditionally, his caste determines his occupation and his choice of spouse. ” So a rocket scientist is born into a caste of rocket scientist!! Is there a caste or rocket scientists. How come the india space agency works then since there is no rocket scientist caste?!Really do you think logically before you write, as we live in modern times when things change but not your thinking which can not of course line up with the reality of today.
    “His parents find him a spouse and he dutifully reproduces.” Really. So all those Bollywood romance stories are just a fantasy! Plenty of people nowadays find their own partners and find their own occupation. Times are changing. Watch a bollywood movie and see the love birds in action singing about how they love each other.Hundreds of millions of people watch these films and they change people’s behaviour. Times are chaining but your mind stays the same.
    Oh and do not parents find a wife for muslim men among their own family? The famous inbreeding cousin religion of islam which causes low iq and birth defects among muslims, leading doctors in the UK to try and educate muslims about this, but, of course, to no avail. After all if it was good enough for Mohammad it is good enough for them.
    “The Indian’s life is planned out for him before he is an embryo.”
    This last sentence contradicts the power of God. God alone could do such a thing. The sentence is actually blasphemous.
    Even before he is an embryo they know whether he will be a rocket scientist who will marry someone from the rocket scientist caste, (unless of course he is a she and she becomes a muslima by marrying a muslim or a million other things!) You are assuming that indians are powerful as God and can determine a life before it is iin embryo form. Really do they have so much power? Do they know so much? What if the baby is not born?Only Allah (from an islamic point of view) can do that! Inshallah!
    “I recall my mother would often remark that we were lucky to practice a religion like Islam which kept us away from alcohol and hedonism”
    Islam is the ultimate hedonism. In Islam heaven is filled big breasted white virgins and there are many rivers of alcohol. Even the idea of jannah, or heaven is full of hedonism. Islam allows taking sex slaves while on earth. It even allows one to marry a nine year girl (if one is so inclined) in places like Saudi and Iran.
    The first thing we need to do is to establish that drinking alcohol is not prohibited by the Quran as is claimed by many. There are three passages that hint in this direction. However not in a single occasion it is called haraam, or forbidden by God, like pork meat for example. Here are two passages:
    Quran 2:219 “They ask you concerning alcoholic drinks and games of chance. Say: in them are harm and goods for men, but their harms exeeds their good effects.“
    Quran 4:43 “Do not approach prayers while you are drunk.” This last one actually came about because muslims would often be drunk while praying causing much amusement to the Jews. So Mohammad was being practical here with regards to appearing more sober for the purpose of prayer.
    Now let us let’s check out another passage from the Quran that speaks of alcohol:
    Quran 16.67 “And of the fruits of the date palms and the grapes, you obtain alcoholic drinks and goods. Verily in that is a sign for a people who use their understanding.”
    In this verse without a doubt is said that God bestowed grapes and dates upon people, so they can make alcoholic drinks from them. That’s right, wine making is encouraged here. The prophet himself drank wine. There are many passages but as this is becoming quite long. One example will suffice.
    Muslim 3753 “We were with the prophet of Allah and he was thirsty. And a man said: ‘O prophet of Allah, do you want to drink wine?’ Prophet of Allah said: ‘Yes’. The man went to get the wine. The prophet of Allah said: ‘Make it intoxicated’. And he drank.”
    Because the Arabian word that was used ‘nabeed’ can also mean alcohol free wine, the addition by the prophet that is must be intoxicated is a very valuable one. There are plenty more passages where Muhammad is drinking wine, both in the morning and in the evening. In many cases the Islamic opponents of alcohol can hide behind the double meaning of the word ‘nabeed’, but in the last habith the Arabic word ‘khamra’ is used, which means alcohol.
    ” What she failed to realize is that one doesn’t need Islam to keep away from vice, but merely sheer human will.” This is quite right. In fact islam encourages hedonism in this life and in the hereafter. One of the finest hedonistic hadiths even explains that Mohammad was drunk continuously for three days and three nights!
    Islam is kind of a party religion: four wives, sex slave, drinking in heaven and on earth, jihad for the purpose of booty and the biggest orgy around supervised in Jahhan or heaven by Allah himself.
    Hence,we see the rulers of Islam in the sheikdoms taking hedonism too new limits in their party palaces full of hookers. It is a party that will continue in heaven when they reach Allah’s paradise.
    Even the sultan of Brunei has had his private life exposed of late but that will not stop him partying. Thanks Jay Leno for showing the hypocrisy of the man. HE PARTIES WITH HOOKERS WHILE HE EXPECTS OTHERS TO DO AS HE SAYS with his SHARIA LAWS. One law for him and another for the people. Get ready for stoning to death people. Get ready for hands being amputated without anesthesia.

    1. A very good question Xman.
      It depends on the theology concerned. Are you a muslim? Muslims have one point of view other religions have other points of view.
      From a muslim point of view one can not even choose to be a muslim. The whole of life moves according to the whim of Allah. Hence the phrase quite rightly used by muslims Allah willing or God willing, Inshallah.
      Another phrase again quite rightly used by muslims is Mashallah or Allah has willed it, or God has willed it. The fatalistic theology of muslims is well expressed in these often used phrases.

  8. “I don’t think it’s a bad religion,” quote from dota
    It depends if you are on the receiving end of islamic jihad violence. Again from Al Ghazali, and this time about the necessity of Jihad:
    “One must go on jihad (i.e., warlike razzias or raids) at least once a year…one may use a catapult against them when they are in a fortress, even if among them are women and children. One may set fire to them and/or drown them…If a person of the Ahl al-Kitab [People of The Book – Jews and Christians, typically] is enslaved, his marriage is [automatically] revoked…One may cut down their trees…One must destroy their useless books. Jihadists may take as booty whatever they decide…they may steal as much food as they need.”

    1. If there is no difference between man’s will and God’s will, there is no God to seek. In Islam God is unknowable – he is completely transcendent and his will is all things. Theologically this is the equivalent to saying there is no God.
      Islam has become a substitute God for Muslims. Worship is defined as obedience to Islam and Islam represents the entire will of God for all men through all time. God’s will is also every single thing that happens. So even if one disobeys Islam, it is still God’s will that he did so.

    2. Your not supposed to follow the postulates of Ghazali as it was explained/retorted rationaly in the video.
      Anyway regarding the marriage of Prophet (pbuh), following should address you misgivings. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIZNtQopQLE
      Hope u get past in reading the spin & move towards understaning message & accepting Islam.

      1. @Xman,
        Islam is a piece of shit. Your “prophet” recommended drinking Camel piss and actually did that. Its Sunnat, you know. Did you, like a good Muslim, also drink Camel piss?

        1. The what about drinking cow urine and cow dung, sir ji!!! However, samples sent to a leading test laboratory in West Germany have purportedly proved this to be untrue your holiness…
          You’re using cows for housewarming ceremonies ie Grihapravesham as well as taming the bull by giving alcohol, spraying chilli powder on its face, twisting and biting their tail, stabbing it, punching for the sheer thrill to prove their masculinity in the form of Jallikattu. In spite of all this you consider the cow holy and celebrate mattu pongal, isn’t it ironic?
          Thanks to the supreme court now it has been banned.
          http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/supreme-court-ban-jallikattu-bullfighting-bullock-cart-racing/1/359591.html
          Let’s see how our brave men fare in other sports instead of frightening bulls in the name of Tamil tradition. You condemn beef eating but manusmriti your holy script says
          ‘It is not sinful to eat meat of eatable animals, for Brahma has created both the eaters and the eatables’
          A renowned scholar of scriptures Dr. Pandurang Vaman Kane says, “Bajsancyi Samhita sanctifies beef-eating because of its purity”. (Dharmashastra Vichar Marathi, page 180)
          · Adi Shankaracharya’ commentary on Brihdaranyakopanishad 6/4/18 says : ‘Odan’ (rice) mixed with meat is called ‘Mansodan’. On being asked whose meat it should be, he answers ‘Uksha’. ‘Uksha’ is used for an ox, which is capable to produce semen.
          Hypocrisy bounds no limits in Hinduism. Relax with a cup of cow-ca-cola.

      2. It is you Xman WHO are uninformed about the marriage age of Aisha. It is you Xman WHO are deluded by spin.
        The thought of an old man becoming aroused by a child is one of the most disturbing thoughts that makes us cringe as it reminds us of pedophilia and the most despicable people. It is difficult to accept that the Prophet married Aisha when she was 6-years-old and consummated his marriage with her when she was 9. He was then, 54 years old.
        Sahih Muslim Book 008, Number 3310:
        ‘A’isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: Allah’s Apostle (may peace be upon him) married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house when I was nine years old.
        Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 64
        Narrated ‘Aisha:
        that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death).
        Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 65
        Narrated ‘Aisha:
        that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old. Hisham said: I have been informed that ‘Aisha remained with the Prophet for nine years (i.e. till his death).” what you know of the Quran (by heart)’
        Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 88
        Narrated ‘Ursa:
        The Prophet wrote the (marriage contract) with ‘Aisha while she was six years old and consummated his marriage with her while she was nine years old and she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death).
        Some Muslims claim that it was Abu Bakr who approached Muhammad asking him to marry his daughter. This is of course not true and here is the proof.
        Sahih Bukhari 7.18
        Narrated ‘Ursa:
        The Prophet asked Abu Bakr for ‘Aisha’s hand in marriage. Abu Bakr said “But I am your brother.” The Prophet said, “You are my brother in Allah’s religion and His Book, but she (Aisha) is lawful for me to marry.”
        Abu Bakr and Muhammad had pledged to each other to be brothers. So according to their costoms Ayesha was supposed to be like a niece to the Holy Prophet. Yet that did not stop him to ask her hand even when she was only six years old.
        In the following Hadith he confided to Ahesha that he had dreamed of her before soliciting her from her father.
        Sahih Bukhari 9.140
        Narrated ‘Aisha:
        Allah’s Apostle said to me, “You were shown to me twice (in my dream) before I married you. I saw an angel carrying you in a silken piece of cloth, and I said to him, ‘Uncover (her),’ and behold, it was you. I said (to myself), ‘If this is from Allah, then it must happen.
        There are numerous hadithes that explicitly reveal the age of Ayesha at the time of her marriage. Here are some of them.
        Sahih Bukhari 5.236.
        Narrated Hisham’s father:
        Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed there for two years or so and then he married ‘Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consumed that marriage when she was nine years old.
        Sahih Bukhari 5.234
        Narrated Aisha:
        The Prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six (years). We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Bani-al-Harith bin Khazraj. Then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became Allright, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, “Best wishes and Allah’s Blessing and a good luck.” Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage). Unexpectedly Allah’s Apostle came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, and at that time I was a girl of nine years of age.
        And in another Hadith we read.
        Sunan Abu-Dawud Book 41, Number 4915, also Number 4916 and Number 4917
        Narrated Aisha, Ummul Mu’minin:
        The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) married me when I was seven or six. When we came to Medina, some women came. according to Bishr’s version: Umm Ruman came to me when I was swinging. They took me, made me prepared and decorated me. I was then brought to the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him), and he took up cohabitation with me when I was nine. She halted me at the door, and I burst into laughter.
        In the above hadith we read that Ayesha was swinging, This is a play of little girls not grown up people. The following Hadith is particularly interesting because it shows that Ayesha was so small and was not aware what was going on when the Holy Prophet “surprised” her by going to her.
        Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 90
        Narrated Aisha:
        When the Prophet married me, my mother came to me and made me enter the house (of the Prophet) and nothing surprised me but the coming of Allah’s Apostle to me in the forenoon.
        Must have been quite a surprise! But the following is also interesting because it demonstrates that she was just a kid playing with her dolls. Pay attention to what the interpreter wrote in the parenthesis. (She was a little girl, not yet reached the age of puberty)
        Sahih Bukhari Volume 8, Book 73, Number 151
        Narrated ‘Aisha:
        I used to play with the dolls in the presence of the Prophet, and my girl friends also used to play with me. When Allah’s Apostle used to enter (my dwelling place) they used to hide themselves, but the Prophet would call them to join and play with me. (The playing with the dolls and similar images is forbidden, but it was allowed for ‘Aisha at that time, as she was a little girl, not yet reached the age of puberty.) (Fateh-al-Bari page 143, Vol.13)
        Sahih Muslim Book 008, Number 3311
        ‘A’isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported that Allah’s Apostle (may peace be upon him) married her when she was seven years old, and he was taken to his house as a bride when she was nine, and her dolls were with her; and when he (the Holy Prophet) died she was eighteen years old.
        The Prophet died when he was 63. So he must have married Ayesha when he as 51 and went to her when he was 54.
        There are many absurd miracles attributed to Muhammad in the hadiths, despite the fact that he denied being able to perform any miracles. BUT why should anyone fabricate a lie about the age of Ayisha that would portray his Prophet as a pedophile?

  9. Dota is a fool to equate Hinduism with Islam. Islam has more in common with Judaism, than Hinduism as Islam plagiarized Jewish teachings like Monotheism, circumcision etc. Hindusim and Islam are poles apart. This article only shows that Dota is an idiot. He neither understands Hinduism nor his own faith, Islam.
    Also, just to qualify, Islam failed in converting India when it could do so to other countries like Iran, Iraq, Central Asia, Africa etc etc. There were no real spectacular gains for Islam in India as Dota claims. The actual number of converts in the Medieval period was quite small in reality. And this even after centuries of Jihad.
    Simple answer is that there was continuous and stiff Hindu Military resistance which the Jihadis could not overcome. The Hindus won in the final round in this struggle. That is why India remained Hindu and never became Islamic then. If Hinduism and Islam are really so similar, as Dota falsely claims, then why did India remain a predominantly Hindu country?
    Why did Hindus refuse to accept Islam and chose to fight against it? Because Islam was something way too alien for them and they didn’t see anything in it of value.
    About free will, Hinduism gives enough freedom to it unlike Islam. However, free will is allowed provided it is in line with Dharma or the appropriate code of conduct, keeping in mind contextual factors. In a nutshell, Dota is simply wrong and an idiot.

    1. Wah Re Wah !!! Jaipal the Hindutvadi is back with smeary vengeance… Where have you been all these days

      1. It seem to me as is jaipal is providing a rational line of thought and all you can do is call him a name. Why not actually deal with the topics raised.

      2. “Hypocrisy bounds no limits in Hinduism.” quote from Pranav
        Become a muslim then you hypocrite! Be genuine!
        No reason for you to stay part of this religion when the truth of islam is ready with a simple operation for a circumcised penis!

        1. “Let’s see how our brave men fare in other sports instead of frightening bulls in the name of Tamil tradition.”
          I see very keen to spout rubbish like this. At least in india animal rights is strong enough to ban such vile things.
          In Christian Spain Bull fighting is a nation sport. Barbaric traditions abound even in this country where I live, the greatest of all countries, the UK. Fox hunting, a pointless sport, sees thousands of the upper class of British society chase a scrap of a creature across the countryside ever weekend to kill it. This has not been banned by any government despite decades of animal rights protests.
          “Thanks to the supreme court now it has been banned.”
          Well how wonderful that the Supreme court in india was enlightened enough to do so.
          Perhaps you could now turn your attention to the UK, Spain and the rodeo circuit in the US which routinely abuse bulls by the thousands just for the “entertainment” of the US population.
          Again we see what a hypocrite you are Mr pranav.
          Go to Saudi and go to the shop and buy your self some cow urine and drink. The tourist from the States did so in the video posted on this thread. I am sure ahypocrite man like you from India will have no problem driinking the camel urine. You could of course convert to Islam and have your penis circumicised on that glorious day of following the islamic religion of arabs which sells camel urine in shops and even has a clinic which treats illness on the basis of camel urine.
          “Dr. Faten Abdel-Rahman Khorshid is responsible for one of the Kingdom’s greatest national achievements in the field of science for her work which began with the urine of camels and concluded in a potential cure for cancer. After spending more than five years in lab research, this Saudi scientist and faculty member from King Abdul Aziz University (KAAU) and President of the Tissues Culture Unit at King Fahd Center for Medical Research, has discovered that nano-particles in the urine of camels can attack cancer cells with success.”
          It figures that Saudi Arabia’s greatest national achievement would involve camel urine.
          “This treatment is not an invention, but rather, taken from our Prophet’s legacy,” she remarked. A Hadith narrated by Al-Bukhari (2855) and Muslim (1671) claims that some people came to Madina and fell ill with bloated abdomens. The Prophet (pbuh) told them to combine the milk and urine of a camel and drink that, after which they recovered.”
          “We have researched and studied (camel urine) for seven years, during which we have tested the effectiveness of camel urine in fighting cancer to prerequisites set by the International Cancer Institute,” she explained. According to her published study on the subject, the clinical trial her team conducted on patients indicated that the medicine (capsules and syrup) did not entail any harmful side effects.
          “We will provide ointments, capsules, syrup, shampoo, soap and gels to combat a number of the illnesses mentioned, but only after they have been licensed by the Ministry of Health and mass-manufactured by the pharmaceutical company,” she explained.
          At least when civilization falls, there will still be mass production of shampoos. Unfortunately they will contain camel urine.
          In Yemen, camel urine is used by women to make their hair shiny.
          “According to the Arab TV network al-Arabiya, hair salons throughout the country are requesting this precious ‘tonic’ and selling it at four dollars a litre – a high price considering the income level of most of the buyers.
          “I have been using camel urine since I have been going to elementary school,” said Amal, a university student in Sanaa.
          “The first time a neighbour told me that she had been using it (urine) for many years, because it made her hair more beautiful and shiny. Now everyone in my home uses it.”
          For those curious about the theology of the camel urine cure…
          “Narrated Anas:Some people from the tribe of ‘Ukl came to the Prophet and embraced Islam. The climate of Medina did not suit them, so the Prophet ordered them to go to the (herd of milch) camels of charity and to drink, their milk and urine (as a medicine).
          They didn’t have any serious disease. They just didn’t like the climate. And there’s no way to know how well the cure worked, because like so many times when Mohammed tried to play doctor, the patients died horribly.”
          “Muhammad then ordered to cut off their hands and feet (and it was done), and as well their eyes were branded with heated pieces of iron rods. They were put in ‘Al-Harrah’ and when they asked for water; no water was given to them”, till they died of extreme thirst!”
          And that ended the first clinical trial of camel urine.

  10. ‘It is not sinful to eat meat of eatable animals, for Brahma has created both the eaters and the eatables’
    A renowned scholar of scriptures Dr. Pandurang Vaman Kane says, “Bajsancyi Samhita sanctifies beef-eating because of its purity”. (Dharmashastra Vichar Marathi, page 180)
    · Adi Shankaracharya’ commentary on Brihdaranyakopanishad 6/4/18 says : ‘Odan’ (rice) mixed with meat is called ‘Mansodan’. On being asked whose meat it should be, he answers ‘Uksha’. ‘Uksha’ is used for an ox, which is capable to produce semen.
    as quoted by PRANAV aka Mr wannabe abdullah
    Go ahead and eat what you want. We will stick to a vegetarian diet which is healthy and good for the body. Most indians stick to such a diet as requested by Lord Krishna:
    If one offers Me with love and devotion a leaf, a flower, fruit or water, I will accept it. Bhagavad Gita 9.26.
    One who loves the Lord will give Him whatever He wants, and he avoids offering anything which is undesirable or unasked. Thus meat, fish and eggs should not be offered to Krishna. If He desired such things as offerings, He would have said so. Instead He clearly requests that a leaf, fruit, flowers and water be given to Him, and He says of this offering, “I will accept it.” Therefore, we should understand that He will not accept meat, fish and eggs. Vegetables, grains, fruits, milk and water are the proper foods for human beings and are prescribed by Lord Krishna Himself. Whatever else we eat cannot be offered to Him, since He will not accept it. Thus we cannot be acting on the level of loving devotion if we offer such foods.
    And this vegetarian diet is is gaining in popularity even in the UK. You Mr Pranav can stick with your meat eating scholars/scriptures and of course once you convert to Islam (another top meating scripture provider) then you will in addition be able to feast on Came Hump:
    “I had been wanting to taste camel hump ever since I got to the Emirates and I had just missed my chance. A chance that was not likely to come again so easily. To eat hump, you need to buy and cook a whole camel. Admittedly a small one, three or four months old, but still too large an animal for my little kitchenette here. Not to mention the cost at over $1000 dollars for the baby camel.”
    Such degradation these meat eaters entertain; such as will destroy a familiy of camel just for a few buds on their tongues.
    Just go veggie and live a healthy and ethical life. If you want to you can find an excuse to do anything in this world but it takes intelligence to follow the right path. Naturally a degraded intelligence will find a way of justifying anything.
    But the Lord gives all options as he allows free will but the consequences are karmic. Stop looking for faults in others and do the right thing yourself by throwing any meat eating Scriptures Hindu or otherwise straight into the bin.
    OR
    If you love the muslims and arabs so much then convert. Eat halal meat, including cow, but avoid pig, have your penis snipped and make war on the infidel. Inshallah! At least stop being a complete hypocrite! This not converting to islam is the height of hypocricy.
    What is stopping you converting?
    What is that thing?
    Whatever it is ask Allah to remove it and follow the straight path to Jannah. I can help. I can recommend the most accurate translation of the Koran and show you from how the islamic scripture are subdivided and also what are the main schools of Islamic jurisprudence which underpin sharia law, such as Salafi etc.
    Finally I can point you to the most accurate web site funded by islamic education of Saudi arabia which has all the Sunna embodied within it with copious tafsir from all the acclaimed scholars of Islam. Inshallah you will follow the right path to jannah and be free of ignorance “jahiliyyah.”

    1. The Western message is that whether you’re Black or Jewish or Hindu or Serbian — you matter less than a Muslim does. Your life is worth less than that of a Muslim. Your political aspirations are worth less than theirs are and your national rights are infinitely inferior to theirs. This message was sent before Obama and before September 11, but it has become louder after both of those events. The illusion of parity is completely gone.
      Obama, a mulatto from an affluent white and muslim background, a man that most African-Americans wrongly think of as one of them, will turn a blind eye to the Libyan Arab massacres of Africans as he has all along.
      Muslim colonialism will only be stopped when we confront it for what it is, the brutal spree of an ideology that claims supremacy through religion, which whines incessantly even as it butchers leaving a trail of corpses across continents, subjugated cultures, burning cars, destroyed memorials and shattered lives.

      1. Notice the Hindu basher Pranav uses the manu scriptures. He says:
        “You condemn beef eating but manusmriti your holy script says
        ‘It is not sinful to eat meat of eatable animals, for Brahma has created both the eaters and the eatables’ ”
        Who says this is my scripture? This is your scripture. This is the hindu bashers bible. Give it to me so that I can throw it the fire like Pastor Terry Jones did to the Koran.
        Pranav give me that scripture and I will burn it. I know it is the main scripture for hindu bashers, so of course you will cling to it like life itself!
        Nobody gives a shit about that scripture as it is stupid.Only hindu bashers like yourself love to bring it up. Notice the scripture I bring up ins revered by billions, and it says the exact opposite. So you carry on keep reading the shit in your scripture that nobody even knows or cares about for the purpose of hindu trashing.
        What a hypocrite you are. If someone tries to teach you to follow something intelligent you cling to garbage because it serves your ends. You make sure you carry on eating beef then and make it halal as you love islam so much. Do not be a hypocrite. Be true to what you have posted.

        1. Given your hysterical rant that runs for pages, you should have atleast chosen a original Hindu name if you have the ba***, instead you proved you are p***** by choosing a scandinavian name… Poor hindu troll, isn’t it time for your share of cow-ca-cola??? Go reach out soon or another caste hindu will finish it off without leaving a drop for you..

  11. “Given your hysterical rant that runs for pages, you should have atleast chosen a original Hindu name if you have the ba***, instead you proved you are p***** by choosing a scandinavian name… Poor hindu troll, isn’t it time for your share of cow-ca-cola??? Go reach out soon or another caste hindu will finish it off without leaving a drop for you..” as quoted from Pranav
    The above is a rant.
    Can one see the emotion of display. There is no discussion whatsoever of the issues involved; and even the name I have been using is a medieval English name dating back centuries and is of great English nobility, and yet he thinks it comes from Scandinavia.
    Ignorant and full of emotion as per any rant which refuses to deal with any facts whatsoever. Not being able to deal with any of the issues involved Pranav focuses on the name being used and even then manages to show his ignorance.

    1. As for urine therapy. Do not do it Pranav. I know you will not drink the cow’s urine but do not drink camel urine either since you are big fan of muslim’s and their wisdom. Plus do not drink your own urine. Here in the wonderful blessed land of the UK we have a famous actress. Her name is Sarah Miles who has drunk her own urine for over thirty years, and claims the belief that it immunizes her against allergies, amongst other health benefits.
      Pranav avoid camel, cow and your own urine. Regardless of what others say use your own intelligence. That is what God put it there for. Not everything associated with a religion is right. Actually a lot of it is just rubbish. The bits about cow urine come from some “Health” ayurveda type texts which are irrelevant today and of course have zero value from a core hindu perspective, hence the small number of adherents to such garbage. It is intelligence that decides what is right or wrong. Stupid people will always find a way to do stupid things.. Not everything associated with a famous person is right just because they claim it to be so and have millions of fans. Use your own intelligence.
      Urine is water and Urea. Though pregnant mares have lots of estrogen in their urine, so that can be isolated and sold as Prmarin. APART FROM THAT there is not scientific evidence of any kind that says untreated urine is of any value from a health point of view. Pranav Help yourself to a glass of orange juice.

      1. Would you Pranav drink Muhammad’s urine if given chance?
        Drinking the urine of the Prophet Muhammad was deemed a blessing.
        I have saved the information about drinking the urine of the prophet till last. IN ISLAM URINE THERAPY IS camel and prophet based. We have seen the camel urine therapy previously but what about prophet urine therapy. Let us see what we can learn of this most important of all urine therapies.
        Dr. Ali Gum’a wrote that the companions of the Prophet Muhammad would bless
        themselves by drinking his urine, and described an incident of urine-drinking
        from a hadith:“Umm Ayman drank the urine of the Prophet, and the prophet told
        her:‘This stomach will not be dragged through the fire of Hell, because it
        contains something of our Lord the Messenger of Allah…’
        ”This blessing,“ Al-Gum’a added,”[can also] be done with the
        honorable saliva, sweat, hair, urine or blood of the Prophet. This is because
        anyone who knows the love of the Messenger of Allah is not repulsed [by these];
        just as a mother is not repulsed by the feces of her son, this is even more so
        [in the case of] our Lord the Messenger of Allah, whom we love more than our
        fathers, sons, and wives. Anyone who was or is repulsed by the Messenger of
        Allah must recant his faith.“
        Continuing Gum’a fatwa:”The entire body of the Prophet, whether exposed or hidden, is
        pure, and there is nothing in it– including his secretions – that [can] repulse
        anyone. His sweat smelled better than perfume. Umm Haram would collect this
        sweat and distribute it to the people of Al-Madina.“
        Dr. Gum’a added:”The hadith of Suhail bin Omar at Al-Hudaybiya
        says:‘Oh Lord, I was with Kisra [the ruler of Persia] and with Kaisar [the
        ruler of Byzantium] and I saw no instance in which the leader was glorified like
        the Companions of the Prophet glorified Muhammad. The second Muhammad spat, one of them would immediately hasten [to grab his saliva] and smear it upon his
        face.’ Hence, the ulema, including Ibn Hajar Al-Askalani, Al-Baihaqi,
        Al-Daraqutni and Al-Haythami, determined that the Prophet’s entire body was
        pure.”

  12. Apparently the Australians feel that the muslims have raised the bar when it comes to animal cruelty; they feel it is the worst they have ever seen for live exports.
    Shocking footage of cattle exported from Australia being tortured and killed in the streets of Gaza is being described by an Australian animal rights group as the worst animal cruelty case it has ever seen in the live export industry, The West Australian news reported Thursday. Footage compiled by Animals Australia shows bulls being “knee-capped by a man armed with an assault rifle, another stabbed in the eye and other[s] having their throats hacked open in the streets.”… “So acceptable is this brutal treatment to locals that they are cheering and filming the spectacle on mobile phones,” Animals Australia campaign director Lyn White said (emphasis added).
    To muslims this behaviour is necessary as it shows the contempt they have for animals as animals are like infidels. Infidels are often likened to beasts. So often they even appear jubilant and shout Allah U Akbar as they attack the animals.. It is theologically sound to be this cruel from an Islamic theological position. I will leave at that as the diligent reader can of course do some research of his own if he wishes to to if he wants a deeper understanding of the reason for animal cruelty in islam.

    1. Exploration into Africa in the nineteenth century came across many strange things. Barth in his book “Barth’s Africa” volume one on page 580 has this to say about the food of the Bornu tribe:
      “All over Bornu no butter is prepared except with the dirty and disgusting addition of some cow’s urine, and it is always in a fluid state.”
      Also the shower in cow urine is popular among the Dinka.
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tRzM2tZFng

  13. The Hindus, i.e. the people of the Sindh and the followers of Sanatan Dharma were not originally vegetarian. Some scholars have commented that even brahmins used to eat cow meat and the cow tongue was a delicacy.
    Even today in India, I reckon there are probably an equal number of vegetarians and non vegetarians among the Hindus and the Sikhs.
    It was mostly the rishis and those who were spiritually inclined that followed vegetarianism with vigour.
    But with the caste system firmly in place in India for a long time till the Brits came, the lower castes had no access to education, and therefore could hardly decide on matters on such matters for themselves.
    As such, the brahmins who were the custodians of religion and education, had become quite corrupt. With the arrival of the Buddha, buddhism was starting to gain popularity quite rapidly. And with kings like Ashoka who patronised the religion, the brahmins were afraid that their authority would diminish.
    Buddhism advocated vegetarianism (it is therefore an anomaly and a pointer to how people modify religion to suit their needs that Tibetans who are almost all Buddhist are hard core meat eaters), and the Brahmins in order not to be left behind, also started promoting vegetarianism. Cow meat was also prohibited somewhere along the way.
    I am a Hindu Sikh btw and a non-vegetarian and just wanted to point out that Hinduism is a very accommodating religion. Sanatan Dharma was a guide to a way of life.
    Therefore someone like Dota or whatever is just engaging in pro-Islam propaganda and has little understanding of Hinduism.
    As an aside, I would also like to point out that rituals become a part of almost every religion. For example, there was no such thing as idol worship originally. It was merely a tool in the practice of trataka, a yogic practice to increase concentration.

  14. Interesting post Ranjit. I believe from Hindu theology it was in Kali YUGA that meat eating became predominant.
    Dota is an Islamic supremacist;And he is quite incapable of dealing with a thoughtful critique of his work. Notice he has not replied once to legitimate criticisms of his post.
    Islamic apologists are a strange lot. My name in fact refers to a youtube video in which an Islamic apologist declares “beheading to be painless.”This is from one of a most prominent apologist and he goes by he name of Hamza TZORTZIS. The show on which he says this amazing statement is the prominent atheistic Show called the MAGIC sandwich show.
    The other islamic apologist who comes to mind is the Zakir Naik. I live in the UK and Naik has been banned from the UK for saying “every good muslim is a terrorist.” And yet I believe he has a channel on cable called PEACE TV.
    One aspect of Islamic apologetics is ask scientists to come to the arab countries and to try and get them to say statements that makes islam look good. This was done in the eighties. These scientists have been quote mined out of context ever since.
    Recently, however, a gentleman decided to contact the scientists and ask them about this. His name is THE RATIONALIZER. And he has a channel on youtube. He interviews each scientist and discusses how they have been misrepresented. To a man they disavow any claims made on their behalf as being deceptive manipulations on the the part of the ARAB hosts of the various conferences they went to.
    Bang goes Islamic science based on quote mined misrepresented scientists!
    Even Hamza (beheading is painless) TZORTZIS has made a video about how Muslims should not allow their “passion” to get the better of them and that they need to do better than quote scientists out of context.
    AND
    Here, on this blog, we see Dota’s passion getting the better of him, and hence his total silence in the face of legitimate criticisms of his post.

  15. One thing that gets me is how unintelligent ex Hindus are compared to ex Muslims. We see Pranav with his rants but you talk to an ex muslim and you only see the most articulate and polite analysis.
    The intelligence of all ex muslims is sky high. Check out the masked arab on youtube and you will see someone with a sky high intelligence.
    Be a muslim Pranav. CONVERT TO ISLAM. Inshallah you will do the work of Allah !

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