PUA/Game: Dominance-Submission As Normative Human Sexual Behavior

I don’t relate to sexual sadism so much but having an instinct for dominant sexual behaviour feels like an instinct for being a man. I’m not surprised if females have the opposite, complimentary feeling.

It seems like a masculine thing – being dominant – and it comes somewhat naturally.

Except a lot of men are too wimpy to take their natural dominant role.

If you think about the normal PIV sex act that most heterosexual humans do, it is a dominant-submissive thing. We take our erect penises (a scary object capable of causing pain and even damage) and shove them into their wet and waiting vaginas and pound away. Depending on how hard the pounding is, the woman’s vagina can sometimes bleed or she can get a bruised cervix. And ~20% of women experience pain during sex regularly – this condition is called dyspareunia. Some clam up entirely and simply cannot be penetrated. They can’t even use tampons – this is called vaginismus.

So PIV sex is a pretty damned aggressive act. Some feminists like Andrea Dworkin even say it is an act of violence, and I am afraid that she is right. We penetrate (dominance), they lie back and get penetrated (submissive). It’s right there in the act itself.

I have also heard that some gay theorists have hypothesized that receptive anal sex (getting penetrated in the anus by a penis) by gay men in and of itself makes them not only very submissive, feminine, and effeminate but it also makes them kinky and perverted. The more they bottom, the more effeminate and kinky they get. Gay society is divided into tops and bottoms. The tops engage in insertive anal sex (the penetrate the anus with their penis), and they are typically a lot more masculine than the bottoms. Although it is true that a lot of gay men are “versatile” (top and bottom).

The fact the more gay men bottom, the more submissive and effeminate they get suggests that the act of getting penetrated vaginally or anally simply makes a human submissive.  Since females get penetrated rather than the other way around, the sex act itself makes them submissive and feminine and this carries over to their behavior outside of bed.

Another way that Sexual Sphere and the Nonsexual Sphere of human life overlap and bleed into each other.

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0 thoughts on “PUA/Game: Dominance-Submission As Normative Human Sexual Behavior”

  1. Being dominant doesn’t necessarily have to be being very forceful or rough. No doubt that is dominant but it could just be being the more assertive one in the encounter or take the slightly more active role. I always think if you are passionate and to some degree assertive, she will know she is dealing with a confident man and respond to this.
    It can be feminine to initiate say a sexual position by turning around and going on all fours or something like that….and that can be a turn on because it shows she is horny and wants it….but its not really being dominant to offer yourself or submissive to accept.
    No doubt some women like to be dominant and some men, like you said, enjoy being dominated but I was just describing my experience and instincts. If I masturbate, I never think about the woman on top. I prefer dominant positions and I think doggy style is a classic favourite of both men and woman.
    When I said that feminists say a lot of stupid shit in an earlier post, some of it revolves around the idea that the observable brain wiring differences and behavioural differences between men and women are solely due to socialisation and gender differences are socially constructed. In a way, this is the fundamental piece of bullshit. I think it is bullshit anyway- I think genetics plays a large role. For one thing, male and female sex hormones clearly have psychological and emotional effects- these hormones act on the brain as well as the body and the effects on the body are very clear!

    1. Well the very sex act itself of penetration is pretty forceful and some would say even rough. Most guys pound away even in the missionary position. And she more or less gets pounded no matter what.
      Dominance and submission go together like a glove on a hand. They are a perfect match for each other and they each need the other one to some extent.

      1. Yeah the screwing can be quite forceful or rough in the way you mean, fucking quite hard or pounding as you say….in my comment by rough and forceful I meant grabbing and making her do what you want, that sort of thing. That can have a place if its what you both like of course. There are different degrees to which you can take the more active role. It could just be being the more active one in initiating things during foreplay and moving it along to penetrative sex. You with me?

        1. Or it could be something in between along that spectrum, going form normal kissing with clothes to turning her around and bending her over, pulling down her….you get the picture. Or it could be a bit more rough than that or very rough and forceful where its almost like she doesn’t have a choice (though its obviously still consensual). I see it as a spectrum of dominance. Its just that the type I meant for myself would be closer to the soft end.

        2. I think normal sex is at the soft end too. Its got a tender and considerate side to it as well as some ‘pounding’.

        3. I’m not particularly kinky. Just enjoying the female body and doing it ‘together’ is what I like. I just think the emphasis is on the man being the more dominant one.

        4. So much porn is about treating women like shit. It’s just out and out misogyny from the titles and text that goes with it down to the actual sex. And running through all of that S/M, B/D stuff is serious heavy duty misogyny and the openly expressed idea that women are inferior and men are superior, women should not have good jobs, women should not talk and just be the slaves of men. Women are to see themselves as worthless, pitiful, nothing, zero. They are supposed to be broken down to where they have really low self esteem and they can be abused and treated badly all the time.
          I do not get it. I do not want to treat women like shit. I have discussed this kind of sex with girlfriends and for a lot of stuff, I say, “You know I don’t think I want to do that to you.” Like, “You know, I don’t think I really want to spit in your face.” I mean I love this woman, why do I want to hate fuck her and treat her like shit? Why do I want to spit in her face if I love her? Heck with that.
          Plus I agree with female equality, and I dislike misogyny and the idea that women are inferior and we are superior. I like women with money and good jobs. I like women who are as successful and accomplished as men. I do not want women to shut up. I want to talk to them about intelligent things. I love an intelligent woman. I want my woman to have high self-esteem, and I try to bring up women who have low self esteem. I want to make her feel good, not make her suffer and feel bad.
          Heck with that.

        5. If anybody calls you a misogynist or suchlike, I might quote the last paragraph there. Or start a ‘good guy Bob’ meme based on it.

        6. I do not get called misogynist too much, but I get called sexist a Helluva lot. A sexist by definition thinks women are inferior and men are superior. If you believe in female equality, then you cannot be a sexist.

        7. And like I said, in some ways men are superior and in some ways women are superior. We have complimentary differences and strengths. We go together (cue ‘we go together’ from Grease), ying and yang, balance. Leonard Cohen says something like we are the content of each other’s lives. Men are the content of women and women are the content of men.
          Abusive scumbags are abusive scumbags.

        8. @ Robert Lindsay
          Why don’t you want to treat women like shit? They love it. Hit a woman like you love her and fuck her like you hate her. That’s what men did in caveman times and that’s the treatment that women are evolutionarily adapted to.
          Believe me, I know my stuff. In primitive tribes the men beat their wives and the women see it as an act of love. They show off their bruises to the other women saying things like “Look what my husband did to me last night. Look how much he loves me.”. The other women then get jealous thinking things like “Lucky bitch! I wish my husband would give me a smacking like that!”.
          I think women have evolved to like a bit of a slapping for several reasons. Firstly, it shows that a man is fit and physically aggressive and that he’ll be able to defend her if it came to it. The second reason goes a bit deeper. Being physically aggressive to his wife shows that man is emotionally invested in her. Women often try to wind up their husbands and boyfriends to test how much they care about them. If a man was to just walk away from his wife trying to wind him saying something like “Yeah whatever, bitch.” she’ll feel abandoned and that he doesn’t care about her. If he instead responds with anger and gives her a walloping she’ll know that he is emotionally invested in her and this will paradoxically make her feel secure. I imagine this feeling of security women get from being slapped about is a big reason many women stay with abusive partners. It may be very un-pc to say so, but the truth is that women have a primal liking for being treated badly by their men that must go back 100,000s years back to our archaic human ancestors.

      2. Have you even been mounted by a woman in cowgirl and she comes up too high (off the penis) and slams down? Now that’s PAIN!

        1. Do not EVER let a woman do that. Guys have actually gotten fractured penises that way. Yes, you can break your dick and that is one of the typical ways it happens.
          You do NOT want to break your dick. If you get help soon enough, they might be able to save your dick, but if not, it might be permanent impotence time.

  2. What about if the woman goes on top?
    P.s I don’t think ordinary consensual sex is an act of ‘violence’, like a punch in the face or having your head kicked in – it shouldn’t typically hurt…

  3. It is not the hateful sort of violence that is going to hurt you, but it looks pretty rough, face it.
    When the woman is on top, she is still getting penetrated. He’s penetrating her (dominance), she’s getting penetrated (submission).

  4. Your analysis leaves something out, Rob, especially when it comes to younger men and women: cunnilingus. Freud was completely wrong, inasmuch as he thought of the clitoris as an “immature penis” and he considered the woman’s fixation on the clitoris to be a form of “penis envy.”
    The opposite of what Freud thought is true. The average clitoris has roughly three times as many nerve endings as the average penis.
    Most polls, most sex therapists, and most healthy and honest women say they get off harder from “outer course” than intercourse. The research shows women orgasm much more often from head than from sex. Hopefully my girlfriend doesn’t read this or find it because she would kill me for admitting this, but when I give her head, her vagina (the hole part penetrated during sex) is just a place for me to rest my chin. The clitoris and clitoral head are really where you can make a woman lose her mind.
    And the paradox of cunnilingus is that the more subservient and slavish you are as a man, the more power you have over a woman. I know a macho asshole who told me “Eating pussy is almost as bad as sucking dick.” I relayed this to a girl and she said, “Guys who don’t eat pussy are fags.”
    Napoleon ruled the world and performed incessant cunnilingus on Josephine; his letters are rife with references to her “cassolette” (perfume box) and the “forest of hair” between her legs, which he urged her “not to wash” in order to preserve its scent.
    Having a big dick helps, but a man with a good tongue and a tiny cock will always outwork a man hung like a mule with too much pride to lick it.
    Incidentally I should add that the average number of contractions a woman has during orgasm is something like nine, where for men it is only two or three. However good sex is for us, it must be so much better for a woman.

    1. Maybe women’s better orgasms are a pay off for having to be pregnant and give birth. Maybe nature has provided extra incentive since there is extra deterrent. Or maybe because it is harder to get to it has to be better to be worth the effort.
      We get turned on, fuck and once the arousal hits a certain point we come (unless you have mastered it more than me!). They seem to be able to build up the sexual energy and arousal longer and take it further. Like they can keep control while building up more sexual energy so when orgasm does come, its intenser (orgasm seems to me kind of like a release of energy, an eruption and outflowing of the built up energy). It does seem better for them if you witness their reaction.
      However, maybe its my lack of imagination of what its like to be a women and to be attracted to a man but I don’t think you can equal our psychological arousal at the sight of a naked woman or the idea of sex from a man’s point fo view. I think we have the better object of lust!
      I wonder why we want to do it just as much as them if its so much better for them? Maybe it is great for us in a different way to how its great for them and it just doesn’t involve as much physical sensation. It does seem to involve more physical sensation for them- the noise they make just from a touch, from the nerves.
      Maybe they have evolved to be more vocal and make noise with each thrust partly because it turns us on. ?
      Just some thoughts.

      1. Also, maybe there is an evolutionary reason why we reach orgasm faster (and its not as good)…because we are the ones that have to get our seed in there so there is a hurry for that. Evolution would have favoured the guys who could get the impregnating job done.
        For a woman, she doesn’t have the same need to come quickly. She has to want to take it for as long as the guy wants to give it.

      2. maybe i was talking shit in that third paragraph (or all of them) but can i at least say men are more visually aroused (that’s a thing, right?) and if so, i guess that means they appreciate the sight more?
        are they more turned on by touch and us more by sight? it sort of seems that way.

        1. There is an evolutionary reason for orgasm. When a woman cums, it causes contractions which pull the sperm in closer, making her more likely to conceive.

        2. Evolutionary speaking humans are close to chimps. A female chimp will pick a man to raise her offspring. Usually the best provider or the best protector. Then she will mate with many of the other male chimps. A chimps penis is designed to pull previous ejeculate out during mating. The female may take up to 5 suitors before she orgasm. When she does her muscle movement help the sperm in the canal. All you have to do is apply the procedure to humans.

  5. Bumface, “How does that work unless he’s already come inside her?” That’s usually the way it works; men typically ejaculate first, which is another reason women like cunnilingus. The figure is something like 20% of women come from penetration on a regular basis, while roughly 80% come from cunnilingus.

  6. Despite being a leftist, I think dominance and submission is normal human behavior. To demand that people act otherwise,in’t natural. Nonetheless, I wouldn’t, of course, advocate stuff like social Darwinism. I’m just being realistic about everyday people.

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