Why Discuss the Blacks = Apes Meme in the First Place?

Car Guy, a Black man from Ghana, writes:

Tulio (a US Black) is right. This is a silly topic.
This Justin guy says Africans are closer to apes and then uses the fact that they have “flatter faces and noses, flared nostrils, big lips, etc” as evidence. As a poster already mentioned above, many East Asians have those features, including relatively thick lips (not that apes have thick lips), so what does that make them?
If East Asians don’t look like Apes, then neither do the Khoisan, supposedly the earliest humans on earth, who happen to look rather East Asian.
He says,
“You can pick any black out of a crowd in America, strip ‘em of his clothes and place him in a jungle and he’d look right at home. Just give him a spear and wish him good luck.”
The guy clearly has an agenda, so why would you even entertain his comment, Robert?

I didn’t intend to agree with Justin’s comment, and I’m not sure why he made those comments. Justin is a politically nonracist White man whose heroes are JFK, RFK and MLK from the Sixties. In particular, he honors the Civil Rights movement. However, like many White liberals, as you can see, he has his racist moments.
One of the things that I have been trying pound into people’s heads forever on this site is that many good White liberals and even Leftists have at least some, and sometimes more than some, racist feelings.
They don’t express them politically, but they sometimes do in private, often after a few drinks, and only in certain company. Racist jokes are also likely to be entertained with select company behind closed doors. At the same time, this identical leftwing Whites take offense at a lot of what they consider to be extreme racism, political racism, out front racism, hard racism or even racism that goes too far.
For sure they are often frightened of Blacks and avoid them. Many are wary of having relationships, friendships or especially romantic and sexual ones, with Blacks. Many have a generally low opinion of Black culture, especially the lower class culture. Quite a few are a lot more “race realist” than you might think. In general, at worst their attitudes about Blacks are what you might call “cynical.”
On the other hand though, they get mad about a lot of racism. They oppose all discrimination. They oppose all overt racism. They hate political racism and often discuss the racist politics of the Right, which they hate.
I remember my mother told me about the father of my cousin’s wife, a man who lived in rural southern Illinois. When his daughter was pregnant and had to go to the hospital, they had a Black doctor. He pulled his wife out and got her another doctor because he said something along the lines of, “No nigger is going to deliver my daughter’s baby!” My mother was outraged and offended by that sort of high octane racism, and it just went to show that he was an inferior Southern cracker.
I want to point out to Blacks that liberal and even Leftist Whites are not so free of racism as you might think! That’s not necessarily a good thing, but I think Blacks ought to know that. Are all Whites racist? Not really, but there’s more to White racism especially the covert varieties, than you think. Now what should Blacks and antis do with this information? I am not sure. I guess that is up to them to decide.
Let’s get real here for a second. The Blacks = apes, gorillas or chimps meme is as old as forever. A lot of people think it’s very offensive, but is there anything to it? What’s the basis for it anyway? Are there features in common that cause this offensive stereotype? How should antis and Blacks react to this comment other than just shouting it down and screaming censorship?
By the way, shouting down and ordering people to shut up is all that Blacks and their anti allies ever do. What’s the point of that? Why don’t Blacks and their allies attempt to counter the argument is some other way other than jumping up and down screaming, “You can’t say that!”?
I would think that mature folks including relaxed Blacks and their anti and nonracist allies could have a reasonable discussion about this topic without screaming and yelling and telling people to shut up or degenerating into racist bullshit.
So that’s in part what I was trying to do with that post.
It’s also an interesting question, ugly and hurtful though it is, and it deserves investigation as all scientific questions do to see if there is anything to it or not.
Now in the crowd that I run in, saying Blacks = apes, monkeys, chimps, gorillas, etc. is considered to be extremely rude, gauche, an undignified and dishonorable statement lacking of a nonracist White of some refinement. It’s really gutter talk, and if you start talking like that, people will sort of tell you to shut up.
An anecdote will illustrate.
I used to know a famous writer named Avram Davidson. He came to visit me and stayed with me near the end of his life. I was trying to find him a place to stay nearby, but nothing would work out. Avram was a former Orthodox Jew, one of the smartest men I have ever met.
But it was said that he didn’t like Blacks too much. As a well-behaved Jewish intellectual, Black crime just scared the crap out of him. However, he had lived for a number of years in British Honduras, a place that is filled with Blacks.
Avram was a friend of my family’s – really my father’s friend and not mine. He and my father had met as medics on Okinawa in the Pacific and then went to China together after the war. They kept in touch for the rest of their lives, and he used to visit when I was a child and young man living at home.
My mother was fond of repeating one of Avram’s anecdotes about Blacks, which involved mass integration with White communities and breaking up large concentrations of Blacks that tend to descent to the lowest common denominator by reinforcement and egging on.
“A Black a block!” he would say forcefully. “Spread em out and civilize em!”
But in 1991 when he was visiting me, I mentioned that some Blacks looked like apes. Avram got rather offended by this and acted like was marginally not-OK conversation.
Some of them do,” he said forcefully. “Some of them do.” He said it as if he wanted to put the conversation to rest.

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77 thoughts on “Why Discuss the Blacks = Apes Meme in the First Place?”

    1. IMO chimps look like whites of a certain type, baboons look like another type of white and orangs look more like aboriginal people.
      RL: By the way, shouting down and ordering people to shut up is all that Blacks and their anti allies ever do. What’s the point of that? Why don’t Blacks and their allies attempt to counter the argument is some other way other than jumping up and down screaming, “You can’t say that!”?
      Some blacks do offer a pretty good counter argument which is that caucasians are hairier than blacks and that most primates have straight/wavy hair rather than wooly hair so in some respects caucasians are more ape-like.

      1. That’s good. Offer a counterargument! Don’t just shout us down and order us to shut up. I am sick and tired of Blacks and their allies and their endless censorship. It’s sickening.

      2. I wouldn’t be soo quick to say it is a Black/Anti trait, I see the same sort of browbeating behaviour at Stormfront from some posters, including and especially some mods.
        Though there is one mod who is quite fair , reasonable and prone to disagree with the idiot WNist posters who like to claim all civilization as White founded or moronic Anthropological claims regarding Negros.
        Now anyone wanna take a guess as to which Mod I am referring to?:)

      3. have you ever thought of being exterminated……since the black race genes are so dominant….what would happen if you mix the races……the white race would cease to exist……can you imagine every white female impregnated by a black male…..the child would be more black than white…..because of the dominant gene…..you and your race would cease to exist….once you old timers died off….there would only be blacks left on this planet…..their genes dominates all races…what do you think…..lets try that….exterminated by the pen is mighter than the sword/penis

        1. I hear this thing about “black genes dominate other races” repeated so often that people accept it as truth. But does anyone know if that has been scientifically proven to be the case? For one thing, I believe I once read that only .13% of our genes account for phenotype. Would black genes dominate for all other non-phenotype traits as well?
          Is light skin really recessive?

        2. Most mulattos to me look exactly like what they are. Halfway between European and halfway between African. Hair that is neither straight, nor nappy, usually wavy or loose curls. Skin color is neither pink white of pure whites or dark brown of pure Africans, usually in the middle, a bronze or tan color.
          I think everyone throws mulattos in the black category because of the legacy of the one drop rule where we consider anyone with ANY amount of recognizable African ancestry to be “black”. Thus people are primed to think they “look” more black than white, when in fact they are usually right in between. Imagine if it was the other way around, and someone with any degree of European ancestry, even 1/16th was considered “white”.
          Rick Fox is mulatto: http://images.usatoday.com/life/_photos/2006/08/16/rick-fox.jpg
          Seal is a pure African: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_B1LlYh6iKqs/TBc2pJNgLaI/AAAAAAAAB1I/CwP0KVhKnxY/s400/seal.jpg
          To me they look nothing alike.

        3. The offspring of a Black+White mix is 50% Black and 50% White. So you could say neither are exterminated or both are exterminated depending on one’s view of interracial children.
          Phenotypically the kid will neither look full Black or full White. Obama does not look like his dad, he has his maternal grandfather’s head shape and is too light to fit in with his paternal family.

        4. Rick Fox doesn’t look like a typical mixed race black-white to me. He looks a bit south Asian or something. Anyway, generally mixed race people do look half way between, of course. I think in the UK, we do distinguish and we do think of mixed race people as mixed (we used to say ‘half caste’ tho its started to get an un-pc feel).
          This is a realistic exchange:
          “is he black?”
          “no, he’s half-caste”. or
          “no, I think he’s mixed race”.
          How black or how white we see them would depend on how they look. A more white looking person would be closer to being accepted as white and a more black looking person more likely to be described as black.
          The American habit of calling mixed race people black is indeed a legacy of the one drop rule.

        5. Heidi Klum’s son is black, her daughter was with another man. Tulio, Malcolm X thought he was black. Fredrick Douglass accepted his blackness, as did Booker T. Washington, WEB DuBois, and the heroic actress from Cat Woman, Halle Berry. Should we rewrite history based on our glorified opinions?

    2. ps= don’t worry about my promotion getting spamming like, it will be only one per popular post, sorry but this time i don’t have any comment on the subject, so this will be off topic, my username alone won’t do the proper work this time, 1 of my intentions posting is japan promotion, so this is important to me
      this reply is to everyone from all the races, this is my promotion and please help the manga-anime market to grow in your country, among my ambitions is that more and more people know and enjoy manga-anime, i think among the benefits of manga-anime in your country is more job opportunities among your fellow compatriots who happened to work for the new manga editorials in your country or the new anime dub studio in your country ,follow the example of other countries
      ( europe seems stronger for the manga and north america for the anime)
      At Frankfurt’s largest bookstore, Hugendubel, 18-year-old Svenja Malis bypasses the best sellers and heads to the comics section. She’s not looking for the latest Betty and Veronica or Supergirl, but MANGA, the richly illustrated Japanese comics that tell stories of love, mystery, and even horror. A friend got Malis hooked on manga three years ago and, like many girls in her class, she began to finance the habit with her monthly allowance. “I could also read American comics, but I prefer the Japanese ones because they’re less clumsy,” she says. While Western comics such as Donald Duck, Tintin, and Asterix long dominated the European market, young readers like Malis are looking eastward. The Japan External Trade Organization says German and French sales of manga totaled $212.6 million last year, making Europe the largest consumer of manga outside Japan
      how important is the American market to the Japanese? “The American market is big,it is the second largest ANIME market in the world, second only to Japan.” this fact shouldn’t be that shocking, but think about it a little more. While anime has been around for decades in the US and there has always been a small fan community surrounding it, the medium didn’t really “take off” over here until the Adult Swim Revolution 8 years ago

  1. I agree that this is a silly topic. But it is also, as you say, persistent. The value in airing it as you did is to show how baseless it is. Even if you are a racist, or just don’t like blacks, at least base it on something that isn’t completely idiotic. Not gonna happen, I know, because most racists will jump at *anything* that they think makes their target group look bad.

    1. Yeah if you don’t bring it up and debunk it then people will keep thinking it secretly. If something is baseless, there is no need to be scared of talking about it.

  2. Let’s get real here- the actual question should be:
    Q: WHY do a lot of humans (probably some Blacks, too) subjectively THINK, or even go as far as acknowledge, that “stereotypical” African/Negroids resembles apes (gorillas, chimps or monkeys) more than the other races do?
    This is a fact, even if seems to make no sense as far as genetic ancestry, etc., which would indicate that all the races come from the same ancestor out of Africa.
    A: Gorillas, for example, have black faces, broad nose, large lips, and are physically imposing. And- they come from Africa. Whites, Asians and other races don’t resemble them as much (even though I’ve seen and known some Whites-and Asians- that do!) Also, let’s not forget that the Japanese, of all races, were portrayed as Simian in appearance in U.S. WW II propaganda cartoons…
    Chimps (and monkeys) are very human-like, yet are exceedingly strong, and again, have the big lips/broad nose thing, and come from Africa. The broad nose thing is thought to be an adaptation to African climate, just as the long, narrow nose is thought to be adapted to cold, etc.
    The mystery would be: why do many African races/subraces/phenotypes have these apparent adapations, while other races don’t… in general, if all the races developed very recently from the common African ancestor?
    And before you all attack: Yeah, there are hundreds of different types of Africans/Negroids, varying greatly in outward appearance. And yeah, monkeys aren’t apes, bla, bla. We know!

    1. Gorillas don’t have big lips. They have very thin lips. The fact that you said that makes me think you haven’t even looked closely at them, thus bringing the rest of your argument into doubt.

      1. OK, Stevie- You limp-wristed lily-livered limey faggot piece of shit- I’ve been following ALL of your moronic , P.C.-Nazi comments for WEEKS AND WEEKS NOW. AD NAUSEUM.
        All I can say is, “GO FUCK YOURSELF”!
        What is a simpering, wimpy liberal like you doing here, anyway? Your illogical attempt to poke a hole in my post (“you’re wrong about gorilla lips= you’re wrong about everything”) is as laughable as everything else I’ve seen you post here.
        As a Beatles disciple (I actually sing AND play all their songs- and very well, I might add- and I’m incredibly modest!). I am incredulous that the same Liverpool that sprouted such genius also gave birth to an imbecile such as you.
        As to your accusation: No, I didn’t go and look at pics of Michelle Obama, Arethra Franklin, or any other gorilla before posting. I was going from memory, etc. I should have, I’ll grant you.
        However, after perusing many images online to refresh my memory, I see what you are implying, yet I would point out that:
        A. Gorillas have HUGE mouths, that are indeed bordered by lips, so in that sense they DO have huge lips, and
        B. When gorillas turn their lips OUTWARDS, they reveal the red/pink color of their INNER lips, making them appear much thicker, and lastly,
        C. Gorillas’ outer lip surfaces are BLACK, matching the surrounding skin, making it difficult to tell where said lips begin or end. They may in fact be quite larger than they appear from a distance.
        StevieCakes- You might want to check your wife’s face to see what I mean!
        And oh yeah, GO SUCK A LIME, WANKER!!

        1. Black people have fat lips. Gorillas have thin lips, whether they have big mouths or not. Therefore, you were wrong. Live with it.
          I’m not saying that necessarily means the rest of your analysis is wrong, I’m just saying it makes it highly likely.
          I don’t think I’d call myself a liberal. Judging by liberals online, some of their core convictions (e.g. their pro-abortion stance and their contempt for religion) frankly offend me. I’m not PC either. I say whatever the fuck I think is true.
          As for the Beatles, good for you. I went to school on the same road as Strawberry fields and I grew up with my dad, who is a very good singer himself, singing the Beatles songs to me (in the correct accent). The Beatles music is yours to enjoy but don’t assume you know me or what I’m about.
          Got a bit angry there, huh?

          1. Stevie Weevy- You seem like a nice enuff sort. Unfortunately for you, I don’t give a FUCK about nice.
            Your posts make me want to vomit, and it’s hard to even describe why, precisely. I can’t put it into a sound-bite.
            My best friend’s from Chester. I DO sing in the correct accent (& I’m American).
            Your hair-splitting (“I didn’t say you were wrong- I said you were probably wrong”) was less than pathetic. Give it up.
            I hate religion, anti-abortion wackos and smarmy, parsimonious freaks. That would be YOU, Stevie-Weevy! And YES, THEY PISS ME OFF!
            SO PISS OFF. STEVIE!

        2. altho its actually strawberry field, not fields. It was a salvation army children’s home where John used to love going to the garden party once a year.
          btw I’m in a good mood so if you decide to start being polite now, I’ll let the last post go. Otherwise, you know, just keep entertaining me.

        3. “Your posts make me want to vomit, and it’s hard to even describe why, precisely. I can’t put it into a sound-bite.”
          I guess I’ll take that as a compliment coming from you. Maybe you are allergic to virtue.
          Lets stop talking now. Bye.

          1. Your wish is my command, Stevie Reevy.
            No, that’s not logical, you snivelling little twerp. Survey Said: WRONG!
            I’m am not a racist, either, you moron. I’d ask you to read between the lines. but you can’t even read to begin with.
            Glad I scared you- however,you don’t have the backbone in you fight back, because you are a pussy and a coward.
            I’ll be happy to talk Beatles stuff w/ya. Just shut up about everything else SPARE US!

        4. I said: “I’m not saying that necessarily means the rest of your analysis is wrong, I’m just saying it makes it highly likely.”
          I do think your analysis is wrong but I’m not saying that getting the lips thing wrong *necessarily* means your analysis is wrong. That’s a logical point that might be a little too subtle for you. And yeah, if you could make such a big mistake, how can you be trusted when talking about other features? Thus it is highly likely the rest of your analysis is wrong. Truth isn’t determined by consensus (that’s actually a logical fallacy), so, irm, who cares what the survey says.
          I’ll just ignore the rest.

        5. lol its a good job i don’t need the encouragement then. yeah he can construct an insult pretty well. He put in British slang too, which I thought was considerate.

        6. “yeah football is the local religion.”
          Here too. But if you do a search on google images for Boston or even Foxboro, you’re not going to come up with millions of images of our teams.

        7. Maybe because its called red sox whereas Liverpool football club is just called Liverpool. Or maybe there are more fans putting images of Liverpool online (Liverpool F.C. has an international following too). Or maybe more people are putting images of the city of Boston online than the city of Liverpool.

      1. You need a pair of fat lips, you poofy, nancy-boy, hodknocker TWAT!
        CORRECTION: Michelle Obama is a chimp, not a gorilla. My sincere apologies! (/:=) Seig Heil!

        1. Then again, your insults are fun and everything but the crude racism and sieg heil shit is so odious that I don’t know if I want to get on better terms with you.

      2. I wasn’t using Ad Populum- read what I said, you blithering simpleton.
        From an EXPERT on FALLACIES, I expected more from you, Stevie-Sneezy!

        1. Even if you were only joking, you appealed to a survey. That means appealing to majority opinion to say I’m wrong. It doesn’t go by majority opinion. It goes by logic. Ad populum.
          For a blithering simpleton, I keep winning the argument. So what does that make you?

          1. “Survey Said” is a reference to the Family Feud TV show- there is a UK version- its not Ad Populum.
            Fallacy=-fellatio? Oh, you made a funny! Easy. stupid pun. Older than dirt.
            So you have some spunk in you, Stevey Reevey- in more ways than one?

        2. That was the best I’ve heard.
          One thing I can say about the internet for all its faults, is that it removes crazies from the street, and allows them to communicate in a nonviolent manner…and provides a forum in which their exchanges can be stored from time immemoriam.

        3. Its called family fortunes in the UK and its still based on surveys (“we asked 100 people…”), not that it matters anyway. You weren’t really being serious.
          spunk? it doesn’t really take much spunk to insult somebody on the internet. I just wasn’t in the mood to go there. It was annoying you more anyway, which I didn’t even intend.
          Still no idea where you got the impression I was a liberal PC Nazi. In the UK context, I sympathise with social conservativism on a range of issues- law and order, immigration, abortion, the family, drugs, education- and I have a respect for the morals, courtesy and community of the past. Plus liberals just seem to rub me up the wrong way half the time.
          I even think there might be genetic differences in intelligence between different populations. Such a pc liberal. Occidentalist Chuck is the man to follow on that issue, if you can…actually follow him.

          1. “Survey Said” is (here in U.S.) just a catch phrase for “and the real answer is…” Doesn’t have to do w/ taking a survey, poll, or Ad Populum.
            I’ll agree to look at your posts again, Stevie-kins, since you doth insist you are not a smarmy liberal. Some time when I’m really, really bored. Even more than I am now…

  3. Rush said that Obama looked like a monkey. He quickly justified it by adding that Ted Kennedy also looked like a monkey.

    1. Rush was lying (again), but hey, his (thin) lips were moving…
      As for Curious George (aka Mobama)…well, his big ears don’t exactly help! And I will be absolutely voting President Monkey in ’12!

    1. That’s a low standard for impressiveness, him resisting attempts to go to war with Iran.
      Do you realize what a war criminal he is? He’s as dirty as anyone.

        1. I’m voting for Gary Johnson. I firmly believe that anyone who votes Democratic or Republican is part of the problem.

          1. If you don’t vote to keep the more SERIOUS problem out of office, it’s YOU who are the problem.
            GJ- Smokes so much weed that he believes in “free market”, “limited government” capitalism.
            If you don’t like it work to get rid of the two-party system -don’t tell others to throw their votes away, Mr. J. Nominay!

        2. A vote for Obama is to throw your vote away, along with the constitution, your legal rights, free speech, and other things such as your conscience. By voting for Obama you are complicit with a war criminal in ways worse than Bush. It’s also a vote for cowardice because that’s what he is, a coward. Anyone who votes for the status quo is the problem.

          1. So you’re a Libertarian Jew, eh? Two strikes.
            Well, I still am a member of my campus’ Young Americans for Liberty organization. (I joined to see if I could infiltrate them!) Not the brightest bulbs in the bunch…nice guys, well-meaning, alot of them, anyways…
            Most young Libertardian types suffer from this disease: they are young, in their twenties/early thirties, and think that they don’t need government, or health care. They believe the “free market” (no such thing) is the answer.
            Gary Johnson will not only never be elected, but if he was he wouldn’t be able to change the status quo. Let’s separate the two tasks: Vote for the least noxious candidate for Pres that can win, and work on the status quo thing thru legislation and citizen activism.
            You, and people like you, Nomin-J, are idiots. You will be voting for Romney, et al, if you don’t vote for Pres. Monkey. And Ro-money IS worse. Way, way worse!

        3. Mott
          One does not need to be a libertarian to think the two party system is shit. But anything to keep Raw Money out.

    1. Oval Office (you know what that is a euphemism for)
      That’d be too obvious. They’d probably just find a way to seriously discredit him.

  4. its been proven thru dna that sub saharian africans do not have any neanderthal dna in there genes so that means that all other races all over the world do have neanderthal dna so this means that if its true that there was a humanoid that evolved into a homo it was the sub saharans only the rest of the races were created by god

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