White Versus Black Homicide Rates in the US

Volodmyrr writes:

The population of whites is 82.9%, of blacks it is 12.6%, and other is 4.5%. The homicide rates for each group are: 4.5 for whites, 34.4 for blacks, and 4.1 for other (1980-2008 DOJ stats). Now, (.829 * 4.5) + (.126 * 34.4) + (.044 * 4.1) = 3.7305 + 4.3344 + 0.1804 = 8.2453
4.3344 of 8.2453 = 52.5%
Blacks are responsible for 52.5% of an average US homicide rate of 8.2453.
Is this correct?

There are some problems with these figures.
Here are the updated figures for around this year:

US Population by %

White            67%
Hispanic (all)   16%
Black            13%
Asian             3%
American Indian   1%

Those figures are very much estimates. No one quite knows how many South Indians are in the US. Arabs are blended in with Whites, as are Jews. So the vast majority of Muslims in the US are in fact White.
The figures for Whites and Hispanics are somewhat uncertain and may be off by a percentage point or two. The Hispanic figure is very hard to define and may or may not include illegal aliens. White Hispanics appear to be blended into Hispanic in this analysis. In particular, the mixed race category is very hard to even define, much less quantify. It was left out of this analysis.

Homicide rates by race
Rate per 100,000
Other            4.1
White            4.5
Black           34.4

Good God! Those figures are completely insane! Excuse me! But as you can see, the Black rate is fully 8 times higher than the White rate. The White rates itself is quite elevated compared to many White European countries. The Black rate is so high that it calls out for public discussion, which unfortunately is now completely blacked out and forbidden. If nothing else, the Black rate is a public health emergency.
That’s why I write about Black crime on here. It’s the one negative thing about Blacks that most pro-Black White liberals will talk about. That’s their big worry and big concern, and they are not necessarily to shy to bring it up.
I understand why Blacks get their back up about this. Suppose you’re a Black with a clean record who more or less obeys the law and certainly has never killed anyone. Your reaction is going to be, “Why are you going on about Black crime? I don’t commit any crimes! Leave me out of this!”
Fair enough. But the vast majority of victims of Black crime are Blacks themselves. And if it’s a public health emergency anywhere, it’s a public health emergency in the Black community. And that’s something that Blacks ought to be concerned about. That’s why I appreciated Tulio’s post so much the other day.
A figure that is 8X the White rate surely cries out for some sort of an explanation, and it’s a great problem for aspiring social scientists to crack their teeth on. At the very least, it cries out for extensive investigation. The standard liberal rejoinders about poverty, lack of education, lack of opportunity and racism get old real fast. There’s something more than that going on here.
Anyway, all of these explanations really lead us nowhere. What is Ayn Randian America like nowadays? Are we about to get cracking on poverty, lack of education, lack of opportunity and racism?
Not exactly. Ayn Randian America, exemplified by Republican Veep pick Paul Ryan, is about to throw in the towel on all of those problems, give it up, go home and declare victory or whatever. Spending on all of these problems is expected to decline radically in the future where it will not be zeroed out altogether. So we end up with a non-testable and non-falsifiable theory:

Observer: Why is there so much Black homicide?
Liberal: Poverty, racism, lack of opportunity, poor education.
Observer: Well, ok, since this stuff is not going away, can we at least ameliorate these problems and see if it affects the rate any?
Liberal: Nope, these problems have always been with us and will be with us for the foreseeable future.
Observer: Ok so there’s no way to even test your theory to see if it’s true or not, right?

Even worse is a circular theory that many toss about.

Observer: Why is there so much Black crime?
Conservative parroting liberal argument: Poverty, racism, lack of opportunity, poor education.
Observer: Well, why is there so much poverty, racism, lack of opportunity, poor education in the Black community?
Conservative: Well, mostly due to crime I would say.

Now, this may well be true, but we aren’t solving anything with a circular argument.
Racists use a similar circular argument:

Observer: Why is there so much Black homicide?
Racist: LOL, did you just crawl out from under a rock? Niggers like to kill people. You never noticed that? LOL.
Observer: Well, that’s interesting. But then why do Black people like to kill each other then?
Racist: Why do niggers like to kill people? LOL! Because they’re niggers, that’s why! LMAO!

Well, perhaps that is true and perhaps it is not, but it’s hardly explanatory now is it? And it seems rather tautological.
Good theory should be:
Testable: You should be able to test it out somehow. If you can’t even test it, it’s more or less garbage and empty bloviating.
Falsifiable: There must be some way that one could possibly prove the theory false if the facts came out in a certain way. If you can’t theoretically do that, the theory is just empty wind. This is where you get the saying, “Not only is it not right, but it’s not even wrong!” about some theories.
Explanatory: Theory should attempt to explain the facts. Theories that fail to do that are said to lack explanatory adequacy. Saying that Black people commit tons of homicide because they’re a bunch of niggers is interesting and rather humorous, but it doesn’t really answer the question. That statement lacks explanatory adequacy because it fails to explain the facts on the ground in any way whatsoever. It’s the sort of answer that makes you feel puzzled as you walk away shaking your head.

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73 thoughts on “White Versus Black Homicide Rates in the US”

  1. One way to dissect the puzzle is analysis of black homocide rate controling for SES, education, diveristy, ect.

    1. the natural-spiritual order is that japanese should rule the world, the shinto kamis loves all us, they dont discriminate blacks or whites, however is true that japanese are the people with highests morals (the lowest crime rate), thats why the kamis chosed them as their special country (not because a racial superiority as some racists from imperial Japan said), this world needs to be completely controlled by the japanese, of course japanese arent perfect, they are humans too, thats why they loose the world war as the kamis were disappointed of their atrocities, but they renovated themselves and still are better leaders than blacks and whites, Japan soon will control the world for the sake of the forces of good

  2. This article might shed some light in why people may be crime prone. One line is particularly interesting, ” Criminals tend to be especially high on impulsivity, hyperactivity, sensation seeking, and risk taking”
    http://www.doc.state.ok.us/offenders/ocjrc/94/940650G.HTM
    If you guys are familiar with the Meyer Briggs inventory, I think ESFP types are mostly likely to be criminals if they don’t have the right values in place. I wonder if blacks are more likely to be ES types than whites?
    Other than psychological explanations, we have a massive problem of high unemployment in the inner city. The unemployment rate for young black men in the inner city is northward of 40%. Some places, nearly half. Now whites are up in arms if the unemployment rate is 8%. The most they ever saw is 25% during the Great Depression. Well in the ghetto, the Great Depression would be a good times by comparison.
    I know people in the HBD community hate sociological and poverty explanations. They will say that black males in the inner city are unemployable. But this is a dangerous situation to ignore. Like I said before, when you have unemployment that high, it’s no surprise that people turn to crime. Whites in rural counties with high unemployment will turn to whipping up crank just like blacks will with the crack. Manufacturing and blue collar jobs were always a way for unskilled and uneducated people to at least have some dignity and make a living wage and gave them an alternative to dealing crack or making meth labs. Right now those alternatives aren’t there. These communities are largely brushed aside(inner city blacks and poor rural whites) except when there’s a get out to vote rally. Wall Street and global corporations are higher priority to our government. They have conflicting interests, cheap labor versus living wages for low-skilled Americans.
    The cultural problems in black America won’t be solved by government. This is an entrenched way of life and since these people have little close contact with those who aren’t like them, they live in a myopic world and don’t see the error of their ways. That’s why you can sit on a subway and some black dude will come on rapping to himself out loud and then wonder why everyone else on the train is annoyed by it. He simply hasn’t been socialized by mainstream cultural values. If he spent more time in close contact with people outside of the ghetto, he might come to realize how ridiculous he comes off to others. This phenomenon isn’t just unique to blacks. I’ve see it with white Americans abroad when they go to Europe and start talking loudly and acting overly boisterous in a culture where people may be reserved and soft-spoken and then they annoy the local population and stand out like a sore thumb. But I digress.
    The first thing America can do to start bringing black crime down is bring black unemployment down. Particularly inner city black unemployment, which is where most this crime is coming from. As a realist, I know most these guys aren’t going to end up as engineers at JPL. But we can stop exporting blue collar jobs to China and stop insourcing whatever blue collar jobs are left to illegal immigrants. That’s a tall order because the lobbies behind in/outsourcing are far more powerful than us. So I’m not sure what to do about it or if anything actually can be done about it(look at the backlash Arizona gets just for enforcing immigration laws already a part of federal law). Inner city blacks and poor, rural whites are competing with Chinese slave labor and guys swimming across the Rio Grande. How the hell do you compete with that if the government isn’t going to come down on your side? Well, they are doing it in their own way, they are cooking up crack and meth to make ends meet. So either we get jobs or we get drugs. I’m afraid that’s what it comes down to.

    1. And another thing I want to say is how myopic Americans can be about getting cheap labor and consumer goods. We think we are saving all this money hiring illegal immigrants and buying cheap junk from China sold at Walmart, but we don’t connect the dots and see the social cost we are paying by putting blue-collar Americans out of work, or the social costs of having millions of people coming here illegally. You will have middle class whites in California complaining about how bad the schools are yet they are hiring “undocumented” Javier to mow their lawns and build that $400,000 McMansion they live in. They are too short-sighted to see how these things are all connected.

      1. And another thing I want to say is how myopic Americans can be about getting cheap labor and consumer goods. We think we are saving all this money hiring illegal immigrants and buying cheap junk from China sold at Walmart, but we don’t connect the dots and see the social cost we are paying by putting blue-collar Americans out of work, or the social costs of having millions of people coming here illegally. You will have middle class whites in California complaining about how bad the schools are yet they are hiring “undocumented” Javier to mow their lawns and build that $400,000 McMansion they live in. They are too short-sighted to see how these things are all connected.

        Couldn’t have said it better myself.
        It’s especially mind boggling witnessing this mindset so prevalent among so-called liberals and progressives.
        They love illegal immigration and open borders, and when pressed to justify why they support it, they basically say something along the lines of, “well, they help reduce prices, and if they were gone, prices would soar!” or “they do jobs Americans won’t do.”
        In other words, they want to cheap labor so they, as middle/upper middle class people, can enjoy cheaper consumer goods. Never mind the social costs such as the overburdening of public schools (the Hispanic high school drop out rate is beyond ridiculous) and hospitals, or the various other problems associated with illegal immigration.
        Nope, they only care about being able to buy strawberries at a local Safeway a bit cheaper.

        1. Migrant farm labor probably is the one job “no Americans want to do.”
          Anyone have actual data on which percent of illegals are employed in this occupation? I don’t believe the hospitality, landscaping or construction industries would fall apart having to hire Americans.

        2. Well, if you look at American history during the Great Depression, when many working whites were desperate for work, they did in fact work in the kind of agricultural jobs that “Americans won’t do.”
          Besides, it’s not just difficult farm jobs that illegals are taking. Many, especially in California, are also working within the construction industry, and construction isn’t exactly a job that “Americans won’t do.”

        3. My point here isn’t to dump on Hispanics. I just happen to live in L.A. and they make up the majority of the public school system. Middle class white folks are scared shitless about having to put their kids in LAUSD, but they probably weren’t back when Hispanics were 25% of the student body. Yet, when I walk around during the day, I see all these Hispanic women pushing strollers with white babies in them. These women are working here illegally for the most part, and they are going to end up having kids that are US citizens and will be going into the school district. According to the stats, most of them(I think) will drop out. So we’re talking about $10,000 a year of tax payer dollars all going down the drain. And do these housekeepers make enough and pay enough in tax to offset the price of putting their kids in school? Now factor in that we have a Mexican-American mayor who flouts the federal immigration laws and declares Los Angeles a sanctuary city for illegals and then problems just compounds and compounds on itself. I recently had lunch with a teacher in her mid 30s, she’s Hispanic, of Colombian descent. Great lady, I love her. She was really breaking down how bad the LAUSD has gotten. We never got into race, but she was telling me that she really sees no hope for education in this state. She wouldn’t want to put her own kids in the very district she has to teach. She is a hard working teacher, but acknowledges how bad the district is. This is one area of life where I’m definitely a race realist. If want your kids to have a quality education, move to an area with lots of white people. Hate to say it, but it’s just that simple.

        4. “Migrant farm labor probably is the one job “no Americans want to do.”
          Anyone have actual data on which percent of illegals are employed in this occupation? I don’t believe the hospitality, landscaping or construction industries would fall apart having to hire Americans.”
          I agree with you. I did see a breakdown once and the majority of people illegally in the country are not working as migrant farm workers. It was way less than I imagined it was. I’ll look for that stat again because it even surprised me. But in a way it shouldn’t, most of them will be working in cities where the population density is. And they will be working as nannies, construction workers, gardeners, in restaurants, meat packing, in warehouses. I know a guy who was an illegal immigrant that was brought here as a kid, didn’t get residence until well into adulthood. He never had a blue-collar job, he worked in offices doing normal work. Maybe he got a fake green card or something. But when you meet many Hispanics, you’ll learn that quite a bit of them, even if they are now legal came here illegally and most of them weren’t working in fields picking lettuce. Contrary to what you might think, quite a bit of them are even white Hispanics. I know some, even from places like Costa Rica.

        5. I support that because it is good for me because I am “middle/upper middle class people.”
          I am honest however and appreciate that it’s not good for the country or at least major population groups within the country. Not that I care that much.

    2. Given how high the black American homicide rate is compared to many black countries (its more than double the western African average), there needs to be sociological explanations!
      On the genetic side, I wonder if higher levels of certain sex hormones like testosterone (and maybe estradiol) has something to do with it. Doesn’t t make people more macho and aggressive?

      1. Yeah, I think differences in mental skills (future orientation, general intelligence, and the abstract thinking necessary to form a moral system) lead to poverty, which in turn causes crime in a feedback loop. There’s also the attitudinal problem of not believing they owe it to society not to be a blight on it. Even some intelligent blacks who have no desire to be criminals, like being a problem.

        1. The white American IQ in 1932 was 80, according to Neisser’s estimate. The black American IQ today is nearer to 90. Blacks should be intelligent enough for a moral system!
          However, I would imagine that low IQ plus high testosterone is a recipe for trouble. If black Americans have lower IQs on average and higher levels of testosterone, right there I would predict more crime.

      2. There are a few reasons why that might be the case:
        * More murders in Africa go unnoticed. Police system in the US is after all quite thorough.
        * Blacks in Africa (and in pre-1960’s USA) for the most part lived by Christian moral codes and were raised within father-headed households. This has pretty much completely disintegrated among Blacks just as it has among whites on the left hand side of the IQ bell curve..
        * Cognitive clustering. The intelligent blacks have migrated to middle-class neighborhoods. The inner city ghettos where most crime occurs has thusly had its average IQ majorly reduced.

    3. Chinese “slave labor” actually ceased being actual quite some time ago. Average wages in manufacturing there are $500 now.
      The problem is that returning to protectionism will just make the average US consumer a lot worse off. Another way of reducing Black crime is to have a truly draconian anti-guns stance, like they have in Japan – but many Americans both blacks and whites quite like their guns. Or we can invest in make-work schemes (as is quite prevalent in Japan). I actually support that; it’s better than just throwing welfare at the problem.

  3. I strongly agree with Tulio (for a change). Our top priority has to be improving our balance-of-trade in employment: stop exporting jobs and importing workers. The Economic magazine reported last year that SEVENTY PERCENT of black male HS dropouts age 25-54 are not working full time (this includes unemployables like prisoners and the disabled, so it’s not the same as the unemployment rate).
    Another problem in trying to analyze the black homicide rate is that a lot of it is between criminals — one drug dealer kills another, or two guys who did a robbery together end up shooting each other. The racial homicide death rate among innocent people is a lot closer.
    But still, to equalize the white and black rates, whites would have to suffer a Dark Knight massacre every two hours.

    1. ‘Another problem in trying to analyze the black homicide rate is that a lot of it is between criminals — one drug dealer kills another, or two guys who did a robbery together end up shooting each other. The racial homicide death rate among innocent people is a lot closer.’
      is there data on that?

  4. Whoa, wait a second, you guys are going to have to start posting the links of where you are getting your data from. Because I’m showing a rate of 24.7, not 34 for year 2008. That’s a big difference:
    http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/ascii/htus8008.txt
    “In 2008, the offending rate for blacks (24.7 offenders per
    100,000) was 7 times higher than the rate for whites (3.4
    offenders per 100,000) (Figure 18).”

      1. Just found some UK homicide data for 2011.
        There were 1.864,890 black people in the UK (3.32% of population).
        57 murders were committed by black people that year. By my calculation that is about 3 per 100,000. The white figure is about 0.4/100,000.
        The black murder rate is more than 6 times higher.
        However, 3/100,000 is a low murder rate. Compare it to the black homicide rate of 24.7 in America and the American black rate is 8 times higher than the British black rate. The British black murder rate may even be lower than the American white murder rate….
        Now, aint that something?

        1. However, 3/100,000 is a low murder rate. Compare it to the black homicide rate of 24.7 in America and the American black rate is 8 times higher than the British black rate. The British black murder rate may even be lower than the American white murder rate….
          Now, aint that something?

          The race role is exaggerated. It’s almost all due to drugs, and all races do drugs.

  5. Dear Robert
    I think that your figures are out of date. If blacks are 12.6% of the American population of 308 million, then they are 38,800,000 people. At a rate of 34.4/100,000, they must commit 13,347 murders. However, the total number of murders in the US is currently around 15,000. Something here doesn’t add up.
    Regards. James

    1. this is right. If the number of murders is 15,000 and blacks are 12.6% of the population, he’s right, something doesn’t add up. The murder rate has to be lower because blacks aren’t doing that percentage of the murders.

  6. As to jobs that Americans (Canadians, Germans, Spaniards, etc) won’t do, it is all a question of the right wage. An American who doesn’t want to pick strawberries, clean hotel rooms or collect garbage for 7 dollars per hour may be quite willing to do it for 17 dollars per hour. Low-skilled work is work that by definition most people can do. To get somebody to do it only requires that you offer a high enough wage. A shortage of unskilled labor is a nonsensical concept. I can’t get anybody to clean my place for 3 dollars per hour. Obviously there is a shortage of domestic workers in Canada..
    Tulio is absolute right: labor that is cheap to employers can be quite expensive to broader society, which also includes employers. One of the best anti-poverty policies is rigid restriction on the immigration of low-skilled labor. Also, we have to take into account that a lot of skilled immigrants from LDCs end up performing low-skilled labor in their new country.
    Cheers. James

  7. tulio wrote:
    Criminals tend to be especially high on impulsivity, hyperactivity, sensation seeking, and risk taking
    And criminals also tend to have relatively low IQ. Controlling for IQ decreases but does not eliminate the racial gap in crime.
    The most they ever saw is 25% during the Great Depression. Well in the ghetto, the Great Depression would be a good times by comparison.
    You seem to be undermining your own argument. Crime during the Great Depression was relatively low for both blacks and whites if the contemporary data is to be believed. Also black crime now is significantly lower in the midst of the Great Recession than it was during the go-go late 1990s. If unemployment causes crime, how do you explain the current decrease in crime rates?
    I know people in the HBD community hate sociological and poverty explanations.
    It is not that HBDers hate sociological explanations. It is just that sociological explanations are often misapplied and over-emphasized. A good example of this is your previous assertion linking crime and unemployment.
    This is an entrenched way of life and since these people have little close contact with those who aren’t like them, they live in a myopic world and don’t see the error of their ways
    This get to the heart of the matter. One can blame the pathological culture of many blacks for our out-sized crime rate, but what actually creates the culture in the first place? Why is it that blacks worldwide tend to not create economically viable cultures? And I want to emphasize that it is a worldwide problem for blacks. This situation is hardly unique to American blacks, a notion you seem to have argued against in other threads.
    Inner city blacks and poor, rural whites are competing with Chinese slave labor and guys swimming across the Rio Grande. How the hell do you compete with that if the government isn’t going to come down on your side?
    Exactly. Not only isn’t the government favoring lower and middle class blacks and whites, but the government is in active opposition to our well-being as evidenced by Obama’s Administrative Amnesty. That’s right! Obama has clearly stated his opposition to black American progress with his unconstitutional executive order effectively given amnesty to millions of illegal aliens. Why do so many average blacks continue to support Obama when he has clearly shown nothing but contempt for us?

    1. Because the Democrats define illegal immigration in terms of civil rights (and future voters). The Republicans define it in terms of cheap labor. It’s one of the primary disconnects between the major parties and the average American, who see illegal immigration as competition for jobs and consumers of government who will never pay their share back in taxes.
      American needs a political movement focused on improving the availability and quality of jobs. Currently, the two parties act as if job creation naturally flows from their other economic priorities (transferring wealth or cutting taxes) and they’re both wrong.

    2. PR
      Lets say it is true that the more unemployment there is, the more crime there is. Its still possible for the unemployment rate to increase and crime to decrease. That is as long as there is another factor that decreases crime which outweighs the unemployment factor. So perhaps if it wasn’t for unemployment, the crime rate would be even lower. I’m not saying that is true but it is logically possible. The higher rates of incarceration are one such crime decreasing factor, although criminologists disagree about how significant that is.
      If you ask me, it intuitively makes a lot of sense that higher unemployment would lead to more crime. But unemployment is not the only thing that influences crime, obviously.

    1. I see. I always found your perspective intriguing even when I didn’t agree. But I can see how such views aren’t going to fly over at Abagond. Do you have a blog by any chance?

  8. WMarkW,
    You make an important point. Both Democrats and Republicans are contemptuous of average Americans, thus both parties are immigration enthusiasts, although Dems are more enthusiastic than Republicans.
    As far as the parties attributing job creation to specific governmental actions, it is perfectly natural that the major parties do this. I mean, what else are they going to do? If the government can’t do anything about unemployment (and they can’t really) why do we need a big muscular government in the first place? They don’t want people thinking about that question, so we get pabulum from both parties on the economy and jobs.

    1. Both parties have a big stake in ensuring open borders. For the Republicans, they obviously want cheap labor so their corporate buddies can get even richer.
      For Democrats, they want to enlarge the pro-Democrat electorate, or as the Political Cesspool crowd would say, “you don’t like the elections, change the electorate.”
      Very similar to how Labour in Britain flooded the country with non-white immigrants as a deliberate attempt to change the country’s racial make-up, and thus create a rise in Labour voters.

      1. I’m not into politics, but if political parties actually do the things you stated at the expense of their own citizens, then we’re dealing with some very disturbing people.

      1. Haha, true. I don’t really recall though. I think it was a while back, before I first started commenting here (which was around the spring/summer of 2010).
        I guess RR petitioned Robert to be allowed back onto the site once more.

        1. RR did not petition to remove the ban. Hardly anyone ever does that. He just did what they all do, get a new name and come back for more LOL.
          Although I notice he is back on the rightwing politics shit. I am a lot more tolerant of that now, but if he doesn’t knock that off, he’s going to get banned again.
          He’s a funny guy. Black HBD’er conservative. I guess he is one of the 1% of Blacks who is voting for Romney. Honestly, I saw a poll recently, and Romney was getting 1% of the Black vote. 94% were voting for Obama and 5% were undecided.
          1%
          LOL!

        2. I still have an incredibly hard time believing that RR is actually black. I don’t think I’ve ever encountered a single black person, in real life or online, who has used the term “American Negro” when referring to blacks.

      2. I banned this fucker real quick after he showed up. He started calling me racist and I told him you can’t call me that, and he kept on doing it anyway. Then I think we emailed back and forth a few times for some reason. Then he got a new name and came back, and he’s been here ever since, playing by the rules.
        Tulio is actually one of my favorite commenters on here now.

    1. Yeah, and he’s back again advocating rightwing economics like he always does. And he’s more or less attacking Obama from the right and urging Blacks to vote Republican. He got banned for that shit last time around and I am not sure how much patience I am going to have with it this time around either.

      1. I have never advocated that blacks vote Republican. I think you have me confused with some other hankerchief head. At this point, there is not a lot of difference between Democrats and Republicans. Those guys are basically playing for the same team. I’m trying to figure you out man.

  9. Dear Tulio
    Your argument is invalid. The murder rate is independent of the number of murderers. If Ruritania has 10 million people and 500 murders a year, then its murder rate is 5/100,000. This will remain true whether those 500 murders are committed by 500, 250, 150 or 50 murderers.
    Regards. James

  10. Tulio,
    I find your commentary interesting and enlightening. I have missed our engagements (no homo). I don’t have a blog yet, but it is in the works.

  11. Bay Area Guy,
    I was banned from this blog too, but not for my right-wing advocacy. You wrote:
    I still have an incredibly hard time believing that RR is actually black.
    Why?!!! How many blacks do you know…..well. Granted, most blacks really don’t share my perspective with respect to race, but my comments aren’t that far outside the mainstream of black political thought. Heck, my wife is still married to me and she is a black
    Liberal.

  12. Robert wrote:
    He just did what they all do, get a new name and come back for more LOL.
    I’m glad that you are a good sport and have thus far allowed me to post here. I think you have a very interesting blog and I hope you will allow me to continue posting here. For completeness, I didn’t change my blog ID. I was hoping you would let bygones be bygones, thus I stuck with the same ID.
    I am a lot more tolerant of that now, but if he doesn’t knock that off, he’s going to get banned again.
    If memory serves, you didn’t ban me originally for any of that right wing crap I advocated. You banned me because I…directed a certain phrase at you which was clearly prohibited in your comment policy. I apologize for that. I will strictly observe your comment policy in the future, although you seem eager to ban for content. This is disturbing. How should one gauge your limits in terms of political dissent. You strike me as somewhat hard to characterize politically. You decry right-wing rhetoric, but you have edited Jared Taylor’s work and have even written admiringly of it. But yet you hate on Steve Sailer. I would like a clear idea of what comments you are willing to tolerate in terms of content.
    I guess he is one of the 1% of Blacks who is voting for Romney.
    Nein! A thousand times nein! There is no upside to voting for Romney. Unless he comes out strongly against Obama’s Administrative Amnesty (OAA), I won’t be voting for him. I could even tolerate his being if I thought he would further the cause of immigration restriction. But noooo! At least Obama stands for something. I don’t like what he stands for, but at least he is willing to roll the dice and take a stand. Romney seems to be an empty suit. I will either write in Ron Paul’s name or I will vote for the Constitution Party again.
    He started calling me racist and I told him you can’t call me that, and he kept on doing it anyway.
    Nonsense! I never called you a racist. I’m not even sure what that word means anymore. I defy you to show where I called you a racist.

    1. Tulio called me racist.
      This is a socialist blog. We used to allow rightwingers on here, but they quickly overran the place and after a while, all it was was rightwingers commenting. And I would spend all my time writing rejoinders to their rightwing bullshit and looking up all their rightwing crap which I guessed was a lie, as is most anything a rightwinger says. Anyway, I had to do a lot of research to prove that their rightwing lies were just what I suspected they were, lies. It was taking up all my times looking up why their rightwing crap was wrong and finding arguments to contradict it. Anyway, this is a socialist site, so WTF are rightwingers doing on here anyway.
      I am a Liberal Race Realist. Jared is a personal friend, but of course we differ on many things, mostly politics. He’s also quite a racist. He sent me the book while he was still working on it to look over and make suggestions. Jared’s a rightwinger, but we never talk about that. He’s also a race realist though.
      Sailer is a race realist, and I appreciate that. But he’s also turned into quite a nasty racist lately, and he’s now nothing but an extreme Republican Party hack. I would not be surprised if he signs their checks.
      You can’t attack me on here. That’s all there is to it. And rightwingers need to really watch it. A few of them comment on here, but you can’t advocate rightwing economics, you can’t promote rightwing political parties and you can’t attack Obama from the Right. The rightwingers who post on here mostly post on nonpolitical stuff or if they post on politics, they stay nonpartisan.

  13. Robert,
    You say you are intolerant of right wingers because it takes time to research their arguments and come up with rejoinders, but is that not the nature of the beast? Is that not the heart of debate? Are you opposed to debate? Sure, right wingers make unsubstantiated claims. Most bloggers/commenters do. You are also prone to doing this. On this very page you made two unsubstantiated charges against me which I had to spend time to debunk. It comes with the territory. Suppose an obstreperous band of left wingers were to point out some of the flaws in your arguments here? Would they be unwelcome too? The issue is whether you are open to unfettered debate. Are you open to unfettered debate? Is this blog designed to be some sort of Socialist echo chamber where everyone has to agree with you?
    You wrote:
    Sailer is a race realist, and I appreciate that. But he’s also turned into quite a nasty racist lately
    Really? I’ve been reading Steve Sailer for 15 years now and his tone has not changed. I defy you to reference a single “nasty” racist remark he has made that Taylor has not also made. Many of the remarks you have made could be construed as nastily racist. Note that I am not calling you a racist. I am just pointing out that racism is really in the eye/ear of the beholder. There are large areas of overlap between Sailer’s viewpoint and Taylor’s. Both men are capable of reasoned debate and both men are polite (although Sailer is more polite and objective IMO). So I don’t understand how you can give Taylor’s “racism” a pass but be freaked out by Sailer’s “racism”.
    he’s now nothing but an extreme Republican Party hack.
    How did you conclude that? Perhaps you are not very familiar with the structure and platforms of the Republican party. Race realists do not get to be Republican party hacks. Race realists get the Republican hammer. Just look at the examples of John Derbyshire, Joe Sobran or Sam Frances. Your assertion is very easily refuted. Why do you object to refuting the assertions of others?
    You can’t attack me on here.
    I’m not sure what this means. I have not attacked you. I have not bad-mouthed your mother or criticized your haircut. What I have done was question some of your assertions. Is your every utterance sacrosanct? Come on! You can’t be that dogmatic. Or can you?
    A few of them comment on here, but you can’t advocate rightwing economics, you can’t promote rightwing political parties and you can’t attack Obama from the Right.
    So ideas shouldn’t be debated here. This blog is some sort of political vehicle for you. Is that right?

    1. There is plenty of debate on here, but in general, it has to be within the parameters of the broad Left. On the chance that rightwing arguments are correct, they can be used. For instance, we allow discussions of all of the problems of illegal aliens. We allow discussions of Black crime and pathology. These discussions are only allowed on the Right, but we allow them here. But most commenters, if they debate this stuff, take a Left-liberal perspective on them.
      Basically, the Right is wrong almost 100% of the time. That’s all there is to it. So there’s nothing to debate. We actually do spend a lot of time on here looking at rightwing arguments and taking them apart and especially pointing out how they are wrong.
      Yes, it’s an echo chamber. And if we allow rightwingers back on here, they will flood in and take over the blog again, and I will be reduced to running around the Net taking apart all over their extremely complex lies.
      I already spend a lot of time reading about the latest and greatest rightwing lies around the world and how and why they are wrong. I do this in the course of my general research on progressive sites. As there is a tons of new lies every day just about, it’s quite a big task!
      But I don’t have time to endlessly debate rightwingers on the site.
      MANY sites limit commentary. MANY rightwing sites allow only rightwing commenters, and MANY leftwing sites allow only leftwing commenters. It’s basically just normal. Further, on Left sites that don’t ban rightwing commenters, rightwing trolls tend to take over and ruin the comment threads.
      I don’t like Taylor’s racism either, but Taylor isn’t whoring for the Republican Party like Sailer is. Sailer’s site is basically a propaganda vehicle for the Republican Party, which he promotes. Sure, they both talk about the same thing, but Sailer is way too partisan for my tastes. I talk to Taylor regularly, and we rarely bring up politics. What bothered me about Sailer was that he promoted himself as some sort of a nonracist for a long time. Then at some point with the election of Obama the mask came off. Taylor has never pretended to be something other than what he is. He’s basically an unapologetic racist, and I actually respect his honesty.
      No ad hominem attacks. Check out how the other commenters respond to me and argue with me and go from there. You’ve got to be friendly and you can’t be contrary, every comment you make criticizing me for this or that.
      There’s nothing to debate. The Right is wrong. The Left is correct. What’s there to talk about?

      1. Do you ever talk to Jared Taylor about concrete next steps, how to expand his base, or incorporate AmRen’s ideas more broadly into political debates?
        Their site seems awfully stale, despite its recent update, because they just repeat their same arguments for 20 years.

        1. I am always trying to get him to moderate his views and not be so extreme, but he keeps on resisting that. Taylor’s basically a radical. He’s a militant. All those WN’s who call him a sellout are not really correct. He’s a true believer for that cause, and he’s not going to compromise.

      2. I don’t follow Taylor, though I’m generally familiar with his ideological platform. When you say he is racist, what specifically do you mean by that? Does he hate blacks? ALL blacks just because they are black? Is he promoting racial segregation as policy or advocating deportation of blacks to Africa? Is he anti-Obama not for political reasons but primarily because he is black?

        1. Taylor had SAID (and I’m not sold on the sincerity of his self-claims) that the exact shape of “AmRen’s America” isn’t predictable, so he doesn’t want to come out for any particular solutions, such a re-seceding the South, creating enclave neighborhoods, etc. Occasionally he’ll make a passing reference to wanting to help blacks by taking their skill deficiencies into account on issues like STDs or unwed parenthood, but he never dwells much on how.
          I have a suspicion that AmRen is ultimately funded by Sam Dickson, and perhaps some other southern businessmen, who make their living taking advantage of blacks in real estate transactions.

      3. The Right is wrong 100% of the time? Really. Was the Right wrong about Communism? Is the Right wrong about Feminism? Was the Right wrong about welfare reform? Is the Right wrong to believe that culture matters? Your belief in Socialism seems to stem more from religious conviction rather than a clear eyed analysis of the facts. Leftists have much more blood on their hands historically than Rightists do. From the French Revolution up through Mao’s reign of terror, Leftists have a LOT to answer for.
        Yes, it’s an echo chamber.
        Nuff said! Praise the Lord and pass the sauce.
        MANY sites limit commentary.
        Does that make it right? Many socialist countries limit speech. Much of what you and I have written here would be actionable offenses in socialist France. Does that make France a paragon of righteousness?
        What bothered me about Sailer was that he promoted himself as some sort of a nonracist for a long time.
        Do you have ANY proof of this? Can you reference even ONE article in which Sailer proclaimed to be a non-racist? Sailer has never professed to be unbiased racially speaking. He has in the past spoken admiringly of Jackie Robinson, Martin Luther King and Michael Jordan, but then again, who wouldn’t (except Taylor). He has recommended that the Republicans focus on supporting issues important to their base (opposing immigration and Affirmative Action) in order to win the White House. This has been called the Sailer Strategy, but only by people who follow Sailer. The Republican high council completely ignores Sailer. Again, please show me all of this nasty racism Sailer has supposedly espoused of late. I know I’m asking you to do some work here, but C’mon! Substantiate your assertions!

        1. With the election of Obama, Sailer basically came out of the closet. He’s sounded viciously racist ever since. He even wrote a very racist book about Obama. He has also promoted a sickeningly racist theory about the recent Depression caused by unlimited capitalism, destruction of regulation, an unregulated banking sector and colossal capitalist fraud by blaming it all on “niggers and beaners.” His theory is “Niggers and Beaners Caused the Recession”. It’s sickeningly racist, and it’s just wrong.

  14. Robert, I plotted 19 African countries on a graph of inequality and homicide on excel. That’s the 19 countries for which there is data on homicide rate and inequality within two years of each other. The correlation was 0.2638. A bit less than I thought it would be.
    What do you make of that?

  15. Okay. Here is the raw truth. I live in Brooklyn NY. I am white and I am female (don’t hold it against me). First of all-mustinks (muslims) are not white. I see everything because I am a NY’er. It sounds like you are really kissing up to black people. I have nothing against black women-it’s black men I have the problem with. In Brooklyn we have drive by shootings-gang initiations-someone shot a bullet thru my friend’s window recently-there are rapes- assaults-robberies-murders-dumping babies in the garbage-black men setting their girlfriends on fire-lots of black guys killing their girlfriends and their kids..shall I go on? Black men have no respect for life-love-peace etc. No work ethic-no aspirations etc. I am talking about American black men. The prison population statistics are in favor of black men. Get it? Yes alot of the victims are also black. Reading the NY paper is like reading a horror novel. Who are committing these atrocities? Black MEN.. Sounds like you are trying to minimize this. Shame on you.

  16. I can’t believe I made it through this comment section with no discussion of the role of illegitimacy. Over 70% among blacks nationwide; something like 80-85% in the inner-city where I live. There is your answer. No system for the positive socialization of young black males. Do the math. I’ll wager you it shakes out.

  17. The Poorest areas in America are WHITE!
    Top 10 Poorest Counties are White Appalaicha.
    The crime rate for these whites is 50% Lower than the National Average.
    Blacks cause crime, it is endemic to their culture generally. Classic underachievers. It is why we have White flight and why few people are risking their life to get TO Africa or Haita or any other black nation.
    Additionally, there isnt 1 nation in the world today that is black, that is a first world nation. This is not a coincidence.
    Read Darwin on Blacks or Dr Albert Schweitzer.
    The truth is not polite. Sorry.

  18. Give them proper education with racial and snide remarks and manners for another 50 years you can sense the change after 50 years.

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