Double Standards for Men and Women?

Beatrix asks:

Robert,
I am curious, you’ve openly bragged on this blog about having had sex with over a hundred women, yet when women choose a similar lifestyle you refer to them as ‘cavewomen’? What’s up with that?

I haven’t openly bragged about that. I’ve been rather discreet about it. I only bring it up when idiots suggest that I am a virgin.
There are always a few men who don’t marry or are players and whatnot. There have always been those types. But society won’t work if most guys act like I do or did. Most men need to become betas, settle down, marry and lead somewhat stable lives not like my own.
I don’t particularly care how women choose to live their lives, and anyway, I am not complaining; after all, I have had it pretty good under this system.
I could care less about whores and sluts. After all, I have had some of my most fun with them. That said, men seem to screw around a lot better than women do. Promiscuity in women so many times seems to damage the woman at some base core. It seems to almost damage their souls. I don’t know why that is, but maybe women were just not meant to live that way.
I am just sitting back and looking at what’s going on in society. The MRA and PUA sites are noting that there is a situation where female hypergamy exists to an extreme degree (guys like me benefited from this in the old days, but it was not as extreme), a few “Alphas” are monopolizing most of the best women, there mass shaming and shunning of beta males, and omegas are simply left out of the equation altogether.
There are millions of guys complaining that they are not getting any. Some are picking up guns and shooting people. After women have their fun with bad boys all through their 20’s, they try to settle down with a beta whom they secretly despise. The marriage or relationship is often not very happy.
Women don’t seem to be particularly happy. There is a tidal wave of very amoral female behavior vis a vis men that I have described. Tens of millions of women are “acting crazy,” acting out in ways my Mom’s generation would describe as “being a crazy woman.” There seems to be an epidemic of borderline personality disorder.
Women assault men, often physically, threaten them, threaten to kill them. Attacks on men’s masculinity seem to be so routine they are taken for granted. The “creeper” epidemic seems to be driven by the notion that female society feels that there are millions of men who simply should not have sex or even attempt to have sex at all. Men are attacked in public for so much as looking at women, not to mention asking them out.
Women are frankly completely out of control, and I don’t see what good has come of all this shit.
It strikes me that there is something wrong with this picture. I am just sitting back and commenting on the state of affairs. I am echoing Roissy and others that I don’t think this state of affairs is sustainable in the long run.
 

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264 thoughts on “Double Standards for Men and Women?”

  1. Evolutionarily, I think this new system is good for our species. Truly the best men are being selected for over the losers and creeps. Hopefully within a few generations betas will be bred out of existence. Then the alphas will eliminate undesirable female traits.

    1. I speak this as a beta/omega myself. I do not wish my existence on descendants. I want better human beings of higher quality to stalk the planet in the future. Sexual suicide is the only moral option.

      1. There’s at least one, compelling problem with that thinking Brian. Betas have a conscience and Alphas don’t. Much of these criticisms toward cavewomen as we’ve been referring them to, can easily be applied to the Alphas as well. The Alphas are almost as bad as they are. Alphas sell themselves out and lose their loyalty to anything more than superficial friendships with their fellow, male hustlers, who easily drop each other when the convenience arises. They are in their heart, lone wolves who value their connections to selfish, unreliable women over anything meaningful with their fellow man.
        This isn’t even debatable. Anyone who’s not living under a rock and says this is not the case is a liar. It’s a self-evident status in today’s society, and my experiences are not unique. You WILL and HAVE been burned by the ALPHAS, and no matter how much one may contradict this, no amount of being steeped in denial will keep you from knowing that truth.
        So it’s time to stop rationalizing a relinquishing of your own existence. The Alphas are the ones who are afraid of being themselves, we are not as fearful as they are, and their strength is a facade.
        There is more to being a Beta than victimizing ourselves and handing over the keys of mankind to the Alphas. We do that and our world becomes a landscape of fraternities and soroities with little deep or mature outside of that. We do that and the United States is over. The remaining brainy men and women will say “Enough with this Lord of the Flies crap” and move to Canada or Europe. There’s little hope as there is of reforming America and to stop falling in a downward spiral of the 3rd world country we’re becoming.
        I know Betas who’ve had Beta children whose social qualities exceed that of their parents. They are strong-willed, are not so desperate to please their peers in order to be liked, and are more like leaders marching to the beat of their own drum. The future Betas can evolve and provide a viable alternative to the metro-jock Alphas. This generation coming up may the opposite of your pessimism, Brian.

    2. Translation: The world will become like Chechens or Pashtuns. Rule of the fist, religious fanaticism, women cloistered and treated as chattel (I may be no feminist but I am not the Taliban either), no technological advances or civilizational achievements to speak of. This is what a world where alphas and alpha values have come to dominate looks like. Oh joy.
      PS. At the risk of being told to go get a room with Robert, I again can only agree 100% with his post and even his specific experiences. At heart I am a beta but have vastly enriched my previously rather dry sex life by learning and practicing game. So at a personal level it’s not like I have personal beef with today’s society. In fact it now suits me very well. But ironically it was this very turnaround and the mental reorganization that went with it that made me realize the sickness and unsustainable of current trends, and the superiority of patriarchy.

    3. Totally agree with you regarding sociopathy. Sociopathic behavior is actually a common trait among ‘alphas’ in the professional world, like business or in your case, the medical field. Classic ‘dog eat dog’ mentality.
      In the sexual PUA case, it’s not very different. It’s mostly about domination/social power than it is for sex alone. With the explosion of facebook, there are even more avenues to brag about ‘conquests’.
      Are there some doctors in your hospital that abuse the lower nurses? My father was a doctor that told me many stories of doctors playing around with medical students, like nudging them on to perform on patients even if the student wasn’t qualified.

    4. Psychopathy, narcissism, and Machiavellianism – the so-called “dark triad”, that tends to figure in alpha characters.
      That is why having a society chockfull of them like Brian suggests is a really bad idea.

    5. I think that the alpha theory or model as applied to humans in modern society and in particular to dating is crude at best and worthless at worst. However, I have been personally close (family) to one or two guys who could be described as alphas. They were terminally unfaithful to their girlfriends (and could perhaps be seen as having sociopathic traits in that regard) but they were actually quite sensitive, good hearted and loving. I don’t think they were sociopaths.

  2. My father used to call me that. I discussed it in that context.
    Big deal anyway. This is an MRA blog. Considering how so many of these guys go on about their sex lives, I’ve been pretty tight lipped here.

      1. Yep, among other things. As much as the misogyny of the MRA and PUA types makes me sick, they are definitely onto something, and I am going to continue writing about it. This is a serious problem in my society, especially the part about living under Female Rule, and I am not exactly down with that.
        When it gets down to brass tacks, I am down with brothers, and it’s bros before hos. So, yeah, MRA I guess…

      2. “This is an MRA blog.” Oh I hope not. The MRAs are as crazy as the feminuts. Both sides are overrun with hissy-fit/drama queens who like to throw logic and good sense out the window in favor of demonizing the opposite sex. Seriously–you try to address an MRA or a feminist with logic, facts, scientific evidence, and they put their fingers in their ears, shout LALALALA and go on with their sound bites about how women/men are destroying civilization or some such shit. Please don’t let yourself get sucked in. A POX ON BOTH THEIR HOUSES!

      3. He is an MRA, but hates 99.9% of them.
        Pretty much. I guess it would be better to say this is a masculinist blog. Masculinism or Men’s Liberation was the left wing of the MRA movement. It’s pretty much dead now, but some of us would like to revive it. I still support Women’s Liberation, but I don’t really support feminism or gender feminism. When we signed up for Women’s Liberation, we thought it was going to be a progressive movement. Instead it’s turned into an ultra-conservative movement (as Karlin pointed out) that is reverting women to barbarism as reactionary cavewomen. What’s so liberating about that?
        The recent Hispanic immigrants in my town have received a huge dose of Women’s Liberation just by moving here. They have it vastly better here as women than they did in Latin America. And they love it. But to take it further into BULLSHIT modern Western feminism? Most of them want nothing whatsoever to do with it. I know, I have talked to them. They’ve gotten just the liberation they want and no more. And that’s just fine with me.

      4. “I guess it would be better to say this is a masculinist blog. Masculinism or Men’s Liberation was the left wing of the MRA movement. It’s pretty much dead now, but some of us would like to revive it. ”
        Bobby Ji, isn’t it the other way around? The Mens Movement was original lefty and this current MRA thing has nothing to do with that original movement.
        By the way, did you read my link on MRA and Marxism?
        Some men are pretty pissed that the loudest voices in the online MRM are conservatives. They say they get shouted down every time they even let out a peep of any other view.
        http://www.avoiceformen.com/feminism/mrm-marxism/

      5. I LOVE Amy.
        Is your name really Beatrix.I think that was the name of the female death eater in Harry Pothead.

      6. Yes, the original Men’s Movement was Left. Then it morphed into MRA reaction. But there still is a Masculinist and Men’s Liberation movement, and they’ve had some pretty serious differences with feminism, their sister liberation movement. Go to Wikipedia to read about Men’s Lib and Masculinism to find out more. I like Masculinism a bit more because Men’s Lib got pretty weird and bizarre back in the day, sort of like Women’s Lib. For instance, there was a fascination with male homosexuality in Men’s Lib similar to the obsession with lesbianism in Women’s Lib (ongoing in gender feminism). Men’s Lib also had a heavy gay component. There was a lot of overlap with Men’s Lib, Women’s Lib and Gay Liberation, another liberation movement I supported.
        I also supported Black Liberation and Brown Liberation (Hispanic) but both of those have gone way off course into reaction and general bullshit too.

      7. Yes I read your MRA and Marxism article and I agree with it 100%. Unfortunately the comments were full of Libertarians and other reactionaries and I had to leave the page or start heaving.

      8. Her name may well be Beatrix, or something along those lines.
        Isn’t it funny how all the women here apologize for feminism but think MRA is from Satan himself? As if they are not quite similar.

        1. “Isn’t it funny how all the women here apologize for feminism but think MRA is from Satan himself? As if they are not quite similar.”
          All the women here? I agree with you about MRA and radical feminism. As I said, a pox on both their houses. Beatrix gave that comment a “spot on” so that makes at least two of us.
          I appreciate the way you distinguish between MRA, Masculinism, Men’s Lib, etc. I wish we could do the same with “feminism” but I’m at a loss for terms to distinguish between radical feminists and others who are feminists in a different sense. “Feminist” nowadays means the radical, man-hating, butch, biology-denying sort of feminist. The radicals hijacked the movement.
          Feminism used to mean believing that men and women should be free and independent adults (as opposed to women not having the right to vote, work, own property, choose their spouses/partners, etc.), but did not try to deny biological differences between the sexes, did not try to deny that the majority of women still prefer to have children and be their primary caretakers, did not try to demonize men, did not try to demonize religious and/or conservative men and women, etc.

      9. Amy
        Most of us here distinguish between gender and equity feminism. The former is ok while the latter is problematic. We’ve discussed this.

      10. Ah that’s right. Don’t like that the radicals stole the original term. Never even heard of Equity Feminism before reading about it here.

      11. Amy
        This is what Robert has been talking about in the last 3 or 4 posts. That when men construct a civilization they do so along universal principles (exception of India) whereas women (represented by feminists) are only concerned with furthering their own interests. There is also a totalitarian aspect to feminist thinking that is terrifying to imagine as the dominant ideology which grounds policy making. This is what Robert was talking about when he distinguished between “male thinking” and “female thinking” in terms of political power. At least that is my understanding of Robert’s position.

        1. The majority of women are not represented by gender feminists. Just as the majority of men are not represented by MRAs. Furthermore, women do not “rule” western society any more than we still live in a “patriarchy.”
          And with regard to selfish women who work the system for all they can get–women aren’t apples–a few bad ones don’t taint the whole barrel, they just get more news coverage. You can read about all sorts of horrible men in the news every day, but it’s only the feminuts who think all men are murderers and rapists.
          Here’s what I consider a reasonable take on the state of things from an “equity feminist.”
          http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/intelligence_squared/2011/09/oh_come_on_men_arent_finished.html

      12. “This is what Robert has been talking about in the last 3 or 4 posts. That when men construct a civilization they do so along universal principles (exception of India) whereas women (represented by feminists) are only concerned with furthering their own interests. ”
        Because Indian men are only concerned with furthering the interests of their MOTHERS due to the millenias long tradition of emotional incest and joint family structure that favors men living with their moms their entire lives.
        If ancient Indian men had broken away from this, things would look a lot different (better) today.

      13. Lindsay and Will also made the distinction of female leaders who sought their positions and were all ruthless and power hungry, versus women who inherited their social status.
        It is just wrong to dwell on the past.

      14. Dota,
        “when men construct a civilization they do so along universal principles (exception of India) whereas women (represented by feminists) are only concerned with furthering their own interests.”
        Feminists are obviously concerned with furthering the interests of woman. That’s what they are all about. They wanted to liberate woman from male oppression. Obviously their focus is on the interests of woman! Why assume that woman in general are only concerned with furthering their own interests, just because that’s the aim of feminists?
        All male civilizations have worked in the interests of men and of the ruling classes. Perhaps a matriarchal civilisation would work in the interests of woman but that is only the same as what patriarchal civilisations did for men. You can argue that patriarchal civilisations are better for everyone but a woman could just as sincerely argue that matriarchal civilisations are better for everyone. Universal ‘principles’.
        Tell the slaves of ancient Rome or the Islamic empire or America that men set up civilisations based on universal ethical principles.
        Lets have men and woman build civilisations together based on universal principles

      15. Steven “All male civilizations have worked in the interests of men and of the ruling classes. Perhaps a matriarchal civilisation would work in the interests of woman but that is only the same as what patriarchal civilisations did for men. You can argue that patriarchal civilisations are better for everyone but a woman could just as sincerely argue that matriarchal civilisations are better for everyone. Universal ‘principles’.
        Tell the slaves of ancient Rome or the Islamic empire or America that men set up civilisations based on universal ethical principles.
        Lets have men and woman build civilisations together based on universal principles”
        EXACTLY!!!!
        Men build civilizations on universal principles that benefit everyone is a load of crap.
        If average men who have not accomplished much in their lives want to take credit for the good things OTHER men have done, then they have to take credit for the bad things they did as well.
        No cherry picking.

      16. …I know woman who are deeply concerned with the good of everyone in society, even ones that believe in feminism too. They just believe its good for woman but not bad for men. My auntie who is a socialist multiculturalist pc lefty who is totally well intentioned and totally concerned with universal principles and the good of everyone. I find your claim absurd.

      17. Bhabiji,
        most or all patriarchal civilisations heretofore have been brutal, prodigiously aggressive, oppressive and deeply unequal. That’s not to discount all the good things and progress but facts is facts.

      18. I have to agree with Lindsay that one group is dominant and women will be on the sidelines.
        The only disappointment is that females are no longer given effective measures as to how to be influential, and instead forced to compete on a male level.

      19. NOTE: Dota, if I have misunderstood what you mean by ‘universal principles’, please clarify. thanks

      20. Amy
        The majority of women are not represented by gender feminists.
        Is that why the faculty of gender feminism is referred to as women’s studies?
        Look Amy, I do believe you made that comment in all sincerity, however women as a whole profit from blatantly anti male legislature in areas like sexual harassment, Family laws, and employment. This is like David Rockefeller or the CEO of UNOCOL arguing that Neo Cons don’t speak for all Capitalists.
        Steve
        Show me a matriarchal civilization which constructed monuments and sent women to die for the security of its menfolk.

        1. Dota, “I do believe you made that comment in all sincerity,” but you don’t honestly believe that just because they call themselves “Women’s Studies” departments, that proves they speak for all women?
          Sexual harassment laws quite often go too far. Likewise our hyperactive politically correct public censorship. I don’t think this benefits anyone.
          That some women take advantage of changes in family law doesn’t benefit all women, it makes us all look bad.
          I’m not going to defend affirmative action, I don’t agree with it–not all women do, either.
          These laws only benefit a few women, not women as a whole.
          And about the matriarchy thing, where the hell did that come from? I’m not into revisionist history, I never implied I was into revisionist history, I am not a radical feminist. Don’t project your angst about feminism onto me.

      21. Steve
        You see, these men were products of their time period. There were reasons to justify all those things.
        Dota is inadvertently putting women on a pedestal.

      22. Dota
        Matriarchal societies are few and far beyond but I believe some of the Pueblo Indian tribes like the Zuni, Hopi, and Laguna. Women helped construct Montezuma’s castle.

      23. ‘Show me a matriarchal civilization which constructed monuments and sent women to die for the security of its menfolk.’
        Why should I? How is it relevant to the point? I don’t know of any matriarchal civilisations at all….nobody knows what that would be like or if it is even possible. Its not like there were matriarchal civilisations that never did those things.
        In any case, I don’t want a matriarchal civilisation.
        Gender feminists call it woman’s studies because they have that vision for woman. Doesn’t mean all woman are on board with it or they speak for all woman. Even if they managed to convince all woman that they have the right way of thinking, so? People can be convinced en masse of all sorts of radical and stupid ideas and have been. It doesn’t mean free woman in all circumstances would automatically be gender feminists.
        The less radical ones might be right anyway. Woman should be allowed to have careers if they want them and shouldn’t be forced into Victorian roles or told motherhood is the only route open to them. Woman shouldn’t be shamed if they want to be full time mothers and housewives but they shouldn’t be shamed if they don’t.
        That’s my position until I see evidence against it. This should be determined scientifically. Are kids who are brought up by full time mothers better in any way or more successful than kids whose mums have a job or career? Prove to me having a full time mum makes better adult human beings or happier children and I’ll get on board with it.

      24. Children with stay at home moms tend to look better on paper, (I can think of dozens of examples), but typically have trouble becoming self sufficient and independent, but I guess this could be said about children who spend their days in small, private schools and activities, amid teachers and other care takers.

      25. “Children with stay at home moms tend to look better on paper, (I can think of dozens of examples), but typically have trouble becoming self sufficient and independent, but I guess this could be said about children who spend their days in small, private schools and activities, amid teachers and other care takers.”
        The problem is child rearing tactics. Not stay at home Moms. You know what you’re saying is a wee bit overgeneralized. Suburban soccer Moms are keeping their kids in a bubble. And these kids usually don’t mature (after many months of getting shitfaced) until late college. Assuming the helicopter Mom is not whizzing nearby.

      26. Ishmael
        I said this wwas true of other children, who had access to such care takers, and Dota is operating on the assumption that stay at home mothers are more attentive and in tune with their children’s needs, and therefore superior in every which way.

      27. Ishmael
        I suppose if stay at home mothers made their children work for their meals, then it could be said they were teaching independence, Or those who have children with illnesses or disabilities and stayed home out of necessity. But the overwhelming majority of mothers who decide to stay home do so partly to satisfy their emotional needs, and that is problematic. Women need to have other things going on, so that they don’t suffocate their children.

      28. “Ishmael
        I suppose if stay at home mothers made their children work for their meals, then it could be said they were teaching independence, Or those who have children with illnesses or disabilities and stayed home out of necessity. But the overwhelming majority of mothers who decide to stay home do so partly to satisfy their emotional needs, and that is problematic. Women need to have other things going on, so that they don’t suffocate their children.”
        GSG, I don’t get this. Are you suggesting that women (or men, lets just call it SAHP, stay at home parents to make it gender neutral since there are fathers who stay at home too),… anyway, are you suggesting that stay at home parents with kids under school age would be better putting them in day care and working outside the home instead?
        If so why?
        Now as far as when kids are school age, how are do those parents demonstrate “emotional issues”? Their kids are at school for most of the day so they are not at home for the parents to cling to. Even if those parents worked outside the home they’d still be at home with their kids for the late afternoon/evening and weekends, so how is that any different?
        And its wrong to assume that SAHPs don’t have “anything else going on in their lives”. Many of them work part or full time from home and have outside interests/hobbies as well. Let’s not forget blogging, which if it had been around in the 50s Betty Friedan would not have had to write about the “problem with no name”.
        Final question, where are all these young adults who have failure to launch syndrome just because they had a stay at home parent while growing up?

      29. Steve and Amy
        That matriarchy comment was in response to steve claiming that civilization was built by men for men. That’s rubbish. The project of civilization holds that man is destined for a higher purpose and this is what clearly motivated the greeks, Egyptians, Babylonians ect.. Men have for centuries fought and sacrificed their lives for the sake of their women and children. I asked steve if a matriarchal culture would do the same. The greeks built their civilization for the greeks. The Egyptians for the Egyptians. At least the ancients were wise enough not to politicize gender.
        And steve, a study showed that children who had stay at home moms from the ages of 1-5 had better emotional stability during adulthood. I can’t seem to find it right now and I can’t be bothered tbh. I did also find studies showing the opposite so I guess this isn’t going to go anywhere. Anyhow, if women are happy having their children raised by strangers while they ‘self actualize’ miles away that’s their concern. I’m not into forcing my will on anybody and I can only hope that the woman I spend my life with places our child’s needs over a paycheck.

        1. I’m a SAHM anyway–always intended to be. The spouse wasn’t sure that was a good idea, financially, until the kiddo was born, and then he was totally on board with it, thank goodness. The kiddo is also special needs.
          Sad to say, if I had stayed at my former job I’d have been making a lot more than the spouse has for most of the last nine years. But I also find the whole idea of daycare for preschoolers (when it isn’t a matter of absolute necessity) really hard to wrap my head around.

      30. Dota
        *Sigh* It’s not a one dimensional issue. You kno that much of her pay check is going to support her children anyway. Women with young children don’t go to work for selfish reasons. Society demands we provide our children with the world on a silver platter and women have to delay child birth and work through their childrens’ earliest years in order to provide that for them. And don’t tell me that male salaries of the 1950’s could support a modern family, because the world is a very different place.
        I’m sure you could remember those quotes and their sources off hand.

      31. GSG
        I agree with you GSG, it’s hard making ends meet in todays world and if women need to work for the sake of their families and kids, that’s fine. I’m down with that totally. But I know a woman whose husband makes over $100k a year and still chooses to dump her kid in daycare for a paltry (in comparison) $40k a year. I personally do not think that is right and while I’m on excellent terms with this woman, this is not what I would want for my kid.

      32. I don’t like day care, but I don’t think women should center their lives around their children, and leave nothing else.
        All the women I know are highly educated but have no social lives or friends, that do not overlap with their childrens’ lives or friends and even their conversations with colleagues or old friends tend to revolve around children, with the occasional remark about the latest political event or celebrity scandal. It is problematic when women become emotionally dependent on their children.
        In retrospect, I actually wouldn’t have minded getting married at 20, and raising children while taking online classes. But I don’t believe most girls of that age are up to looking after children.

        1. Used to be women would have eight, ten kids, which took up most of a woman’s adult life (commonly she would still be having kids as a grandmother). Now women start a decade or two later and have a lot of time afterward besides. Hard to justify spending that whole time as a housewife.

        2. I would have rather started a family younger. I would have rather had more kids, too. The spouse dragged his feet for years and then said he didn’t want any more, to my intense disappointment. Lots of people blame women, especially educated women, for smaller families, but I know a lot of women who say it’s their husbands who want smaller families than they do. (I’m sure it’s often the other way ’round, too.)

      33. GSG, the fact that you don’t have kids affects your attitude about “emotional dependency” on children. I don’t have kids either but for a few months I had my twin niece and nephew living with me and took care of them full time as if they were my own and the emotional bond was very thick because babies and small children are at the most open, loving stage of life they will ever be and there is a lot of joy, incomparable, that is experienced when an adult taps into that. Its unlike any other kind of love and quite frankly, their company is more fulfilling than being around many adults, who like to think they are oh so special and talk about all their oh so important issues all the time.
        I would be more worried about parents who don’t form any emotional dependency on their children. Now those kids are the one who will grow up with problems.
        Besides, I’ve yet to meet an American who is so emotionally dependent on their child that when he or she reaches adulthood the parent refuses to let them go and demands that they live with them forever, which is the norm in my culture.

      34. Bhabiji
        I’m talking about the “helicopter mothers,” women who insist on micromanaging even the most minute details of their childrens’ lives and constantly badger them well into their college years, as they have difficulty letting go. I know a lot of them.

      35. GSG I just wrote a comment to you but its lost in the long thread somewhere. ugh. I’m going to initiate us talking all our conversations here, this one about stay at home parenting and the other ones with Xera, AI, Steven and Robert over to the latest page which is “Lots of Photos of Me”.
        See you there!
        Robert, close this thread, its too long.

      36. Dota,
        ‘That matriarchy comment was in response to steve claiming that civilization was built by men for men. That’s rubbish.’
        I claimed that civilisation was male dominated and functioned in a way that benefited men more than woman or worked more in the interests of men. Is that contentious? Possibly and its good to think outside the box- men did the heaviest work and fought wars (though woman were often raped in them).
        Truthfully, I don’t know enough history to say whether life was better for men most of the time in patriarchal cultures. It seems to be better for men in the ones I’ve seen but I can certainly think of instances where it might be otherwise. For example, who really got the better deal, the miner who went down the pits for 14 hours a day or his wife who stayed at home?
        ‘I asked steve if a matriarchal culture would do the same.’
        Given that there has never been a great matriarchal civilisation, to assume that one would be set up to function solely for the benefit of woman is absurd and pure speculation.
        Who knows if woman would go to war? I doubt it.
        I think its a pointless question anyway since I doubt there will be a matriarchal civilisation. I want woman to be equal, not rule. I don’t find the proposition either desirable or the least bit realistic.

      37. Steve
        “Who knows if woman would go to war? I doubt it.”
        The question is would women start the war in the first place. I know I know, just being obnoxious.

      38. @ Gay State Girl
        I wouldn’t rule it out women in matriarchal socities starting wars. In matriarchal societies, women’s aggression levels resemble that of men in patriarchal societies.
         
        @ Ishmael
        You summed it up perfectly. While Arabs like to blame the west (particularly America) for their failure, most of their economic and social problems are their own doing, because of the cultural quagmire that they uphold as their ‘civilisation’. They are a lot like Hindu nationalists, who blame their failures on scapegoats like the British and Muslims, rather than self-introspecting the aspects of their own culture that prevents progress.
         
        While I am no fan of Israel, mostly because of their inhuman treatment of the Palestinians, they do have a lot to their credit – creating what the Egyptians and Arabs native to the region couldn’t (the exception is Dubai, which is more because of Makhtoum’s leadership than anything).

      39. “They are a lot like Hindu nationalists, who blame their failures on scapegoats like the British and Muslims, rather than self-introspecting the aspects of their own culture that prevents progress.”
        Males living with their parents into adulthood and throughout their lives, the joint family structure. It stunts manhood.

    1. “If average men who have not accomplished much in their lives want to take credit for the good things OTHER men have done, then they have to take credit for the bad things they did as well.”
      Pwned and owned.

      1. These includes Jews too, you can’t take credit and partake in one gigantic inbreeding Jewish global cause and experiment.

      2. Show me an example of where I took personal credit for another jews accomplishment. I’m sure Dota can dig up some quotes from many moons ago, but I’m confident that you have an interesting and fulfilling life outside of this blog.

      3. BTW as an Egyptian I am getting tired of all the BS that Israel throws around and I knew in this day and age, retribution and global apathy towards Jews would surface somewhere. We almost smashed you guys good back in the day, so you are going to have to take credit for that as well. Please remove all the cronies in my government that your fellow Jews put in my country, it really is undeserved and you guys should move to a empty land in Africa, preferably Rhodesia. I want Egypt to become like a hybrid between Miami, Dubai, Singapore with a large port city and futuristic infrastructure.

      4. It’s too bad my interesting and fulfilling life prevents me from digging up quotes, can you please take it away from me and give me another one while you are at it?

      5. What on earth? you’re on a roll here.
        Re relocating Israel. Personally, I was “lobbying” for Kimberley, located in the northern most portion of Western Australia, but apparently it is too late, as the Chinese have already got their foot in there.
        http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=8182
        I can only guess why you suggested Rhodesia. But sat back and allowed you to duke it out, we would have the middle east to ourselves within a few generations, skyhigh birth rate or not.
        BTW, Have I spoken about Israel lately? Why are you bombarding me when you know that my generation will inherit the mess that others have created?

      6. “It’s too bad my interesting and fulfilling life prevents me from digging up quotes, can you please take it away from me and give me another one while you are at it?”
        That was supposed to be a conpliment, you dolt.
        “oh and Las Vegas too, provided we get rid of Islam.”
        Bugsy was my Alta Zayde and you made my day.

      7. Goddamn Chinese, they are fucking everywhere, Asians are like a virus who force the host society to have changed physical features or monetary problems wherever they go. Why the hell are upper classes in America supposed to accept these Asians, given their self-interested nature, and why the hell is it “raciiiiizzzzzzzt” and unacceptable if someone states facts such as White girls and most girls that are non-Asian don’t find Asian men attractive? I don’t understand the logic of being it disgraceful for being hostile to any Asian takeovers, I blame the Jews for that. It’s gotten so bad, that one “liberal” white women I know is in a relationship with an Asian guy and find its not “trendy” to be interested in her own race JEEZ!!
        I understand that it’s not your fault for asshole politicians, however you attacked everyone that supported Palestinians or were hostile of the Israelite race. I don’t understand why that was, why can’t you guys move to Alaska? They made a novel of it and it has a good scenery.

      8. I take it back, I don’t have an interesting and fullfilling life and I really feel tortured, can you please give me one or show me the light GSG? Thx

      9. My impulse would be to invoke a Palin joke, but I suspect that was the underlying reason why you suggested Alaska. Earlier Mott had suggested Western Greenland, but alas, I figured out a way to exploit it to our advantage. Lindsay admitted he would even have a problem with a jewish state in another galaxy.
        PS I only rant about Palis because I will probably have to eat their shit for the rest of my life, not because of the Pals themselves but the demandds of the ISM.

      10. With populist democracies, Egypt or any other Arab Spring nation will never succeed. The poor masses cling to religion far too strongly, and it will impede modernization and foreign investment. Arabs, like Spaniards, are a low trust society, therefore making it harder to build business relationships outside of extended family. The only businesses that succeed there are large state owned enterprises or family owned businesses. That’s bad for the economy.
        It doesn’t help that the leaders of these little ‘countries’ continue to divide the Arab people into these different countries. Those countries are a construct and hold no weight. All were carefully cut up by the Brits, and America simply inherited that for their own interests.
        The way religion mixes with politics turns the region vile. What a shame. I blame culture, not religion. It doesn’t surprise me one bit. If America goes down the pooper with the economy, our populist movements will be draped with a flag clutching a cross.

      11. Xera, I hate it when people blame other races for their problems.
        Jews
        Chinese immigrants
        Lebanese immigrants
        Koreans
        Mormons
        There are just minorities that do well. They have better work ethics. Their cultural values make it easier to assimilate into populations. Their history (such as Jews, who were not allowed to own property) allowed them to succeed earlier in business like jewelery, banking.
        Lebanese do extraordinarily well in Africa and Latin America.
        Other successful minorities, such as the Tutsis, were bloodied up by the Hutu masses.
        Mormons do exceptionally well in business. Many credit their strict personal living.
        Korean groceries are a frequent target for black nationalists, seeing them as intruding on Black commercial activity (70% of groceries in NYC owned by Koreans).
        So what? Whenever a majority group kicked out these successful minorities, their economy went down. On a macro level, these groups should be admired.

      12. “These includes Jews too, you can’t take credit and partake in one gigantic inbreeding Jewish global cause and experiment.”
        “As for IQ, well we built the pyramids, the Sphinx, modern civilization, water plugs, and loads of others…”
        Not an hour later. Did anyone miss that?

      13. I blame the Palestinian problem on the Arabs. Not a country, the people. They don’t unite. Russians stood up for their own people during WW1, siding with Serbia. Arabs don’t do that? Well, Palestinians deserve to be put in those horrible ghettos the Jews created.

      14. And one more thing Xera.
        Why are you commenting on the ugliness of asian men? You’re true in the fact that they are seen as less attractive, but it just seems weird cause just last night we were arguing about attractive value of people of browner nations.

      15. “I want Egypt to become like a hybrid between Miami, Dubai, Singapore with a large port city and futuristic infrastructure.”
        If high IQ Jews ran it, it would be.

      16. Ishmael
        “On a macro level, these groups should be admired.”
        Thats precisely what Xera hates about these groups – that they do better as immigrants in his host country than he does. Hence, all his bile and hatred with his constant rants on how today’s Egypt is some kind of Pharoanic utopia destroyed by ‘evil American and Israeli conspirators’. It is not unlike how Hindutva NRIs in UK spew froth and bile against Pakistanis, who have achieved a more mainstream acceptance in the UK than Hindus. Or how they always blame their cultural quagmire on the British colonialists.

      17. @ Bhabiji
        “Or high IQ Brahmins eh Bhabi”
        Ha ha. I can’t figure out the Hindutva fascination with Jews, considering that most Jews look at them as coolies. In the words of an Israeli tourist in Goa, “They (Hindus) are practically coolies, submissive and servile, just like the Arabs were before the Intifada”.

      18. Atheist Indian, “@ Bhabiji
        “Or high IQ Brahmins eh Bhabi”
        Ha ha. I can’t figure out the Hindutva fascination with Jews, considering that most Jews look at them as coolies. In the words of an Israeli tourist in Goa, “They (Hindus) are practically coolies, submissive and servile, just like the Arabs were before the Intifada”.
        Missed that. Brahmins are no different than all the other Desi mama’s boys out there.
        “They (Hindus) are practically coolies, submissive and servile, just like the Arabs were before the Intifada”.
        Agreed. Would you expect mama’s boys to be anything but submissive and servile?

      19. Sigh so many comments that I have to respond but I will respond to this one:
        “On a macro level, these groups should be admired.”
        Thats precisely what Xera hates about these groups – that they do better as immigrants in his host country than he does. Hence, all his bile and hatred with his constant rants on how today’s Egypt is some kind of Pharoanic utopia destroyed by ‘evil American and Israeli conspirators’. It is not unlike how Hindutva NRIs in UK spew froth and bile against Pakistanis, who have achieved a more mainstream acceptance in the UK than Hindus. Or how they always blame their cultural quagmire on the British colonialists.”
        I have nothing against Jews, infact I don’t have urges to give them wedgies when I see them on the street. I am not “jealous” of Jewish economic success because I really don’t give a shit about them or what they do with their lives. However Israel and the U.S has been aggressively installing cronies and much of that ties into the state of Israel. Egypt just happens to be next to Israel and they get most of the flame and the receiving end from all this action and thuggery. All that “economic success” of Jews isn’t the result of “hard working utopia bullshit” unless you count carrying the trans atlantic slave trade and ripping off European princes and wars for generations to generations as “honest and hardworking”. Infact the evil Arabs themselves were much more tolerant of “Jews” since the days of Abbasids, they were like drinking buddies back in the day.
        The Baghdadi Jews jumped on the Asia bandwagon and through their expert skills started pulling strings to buy “hot property” in colonial India, back when the British were committing genocide and kicking asses of Hindu’s, Burmese, and Indo-chink asses and silently financing/providing them. Honestly I wouldn’t be surprised if these people shipped a thousand “indentured servants” to the Caribbean for their own purposes.
        Also when did I ever say or mention that “Egypt” was a pharoanic utopia and someone took it away from me? Again AI just assumes shit about me and then pulls out shit of his ass to take quick aggressive jabs at me, seriously stop being an annoying passive aggressive douche; it’s starting to get on people’s nerves, like Bibi for example. Admit it, my country has done far more on a civilization scale and is far more relevant then that back water shit hole that you call Assam that no one in the world knows about and of which you try to hide from being there from people online.
        Please don’t assume crap about me or about my country and then pretend to know like your an expert, you know absolute crap and you are so full of shit that it gets from being funny to just plain irritating. As for “being successful” in my “host country”, Egyptians don’t mass migrate in numbers to overseas countries and then claim they are “IT or manufacturing geniuses who invented gun powder and heightened male libido’s” and then go to on say, “White people are lazy and ugly and all their women are whores” while going on forums proclaiming said race of people are a superior species that all White women crave the dick for. They are only small portions of Egyptians in the West, but they have all been successful and I am satisfied with they have done and accomplished.

      20. “Admit it, my country has done far more on a civilization scale and is far more relevant then that back water shit hole that you call Assam ”
        Atheist Indian is Assamese? LOL. Those dudes are short!

      21. @ Xera
        “I have nothing against jews…However…”
        Classic and cliched. “I have nothing against XYZ group….but they….”
         
        “…but they have all been successful.”
        Like Mohammed Atta, you mean? Yeah they are ‘successful’, when they aren’t crashing into buildings or like yourself, playing the ‘internet tough guy’.
         
        @ Bhabiji
        I am a beef eating Assamese, sharing clan with Fakhruddin Ali Ahmed (former President of India). So no, I don’t have the Hindu propensity for stunted growth (whether they are Assamese or not).

      22. Xeta, the Jew Problem has been going on for thousands of years. I know you know that it’s not a recent Arab thing. Jews came en masse to Muslim Spain, Damascus and Baghdad and joined with other Arabs and Persians to create a society ripe for intellectual discovery and development. That environment is lost today. Of course I’m not crediting the Jews for all the discoveries, I’m just saying they’re more of an asset than a problem. Checks are needed. I’m pretty sure they had to pay Jizyah (spelling?), but they were freer in the Arab world compared to Europe for over one thousand years.
        Jews and Parsis are successful people. If you don’t credit their work ethic, that values education very highly, then how do you explain their successes? Are you saying they’re genetically more gifted? Massive worldwide conspiracy is BS. They’re hated in the Arab world for Israel, obviously, and America as well, because successful Jews have climbed up to become leaders in the political process of that country and continue smart American foreign policy. Keeping Israel strong is smart policy.
        Like I said, I blame it on the Arabs. IT’S SIMPLY SMART GEOPOLITICS ON THE SIDE OF AMERICA TO KEEP THE ARAB WORLD APART. As long as Egypt is Egypt and Saudi Arabia is Saudi Arabia the Arab world can never come together. The lack of unity amongst Arab peoples and restrictive cultural values isolate them from the broader world community and hampers intellectual development. This allows the US/EU to stomp all over them.
        Now look at Dubai. They opened up trade, allowing for foreign investment and through that they created a better business environment for entrepreneurs, Emiratis and foreigners alike. The Brits help, The Germans help, the Fillipinos/Indians help. It creates a more prosperous city not solely based on oil like their Gulf neighbors and Abu Dhabi.
        New York City was not built solely from Anglo sweat either. It took a bite out of every race and nationality along with a good business culture to create the single most prosperous city in the World. Jews, Italians, etc. you name it. Good property rights, good laws, immigration and secularism built that city.
        Minority hate is envious.

      23. @ Xera
        “I have nothing against jews…However…”
        Classic and cliched. “I have nothing against XYZ group….but they….”
        “…but they have all been successful.”
        Like Mohammed Atta, you mean? Yeah they are ‘successful’, when they aren’t crashing into buildings or like yourself, playing the ‘internet tough guy’.
        @ Bhabiji
        I am a beef eating Assamese, sharing clan with Fakhruddin Ali Ahmed (former President of India). So no, I don’t have the Hindu propensity for stunted growth (whether they are Assamese or not).
        Once again, AI conveniently ignores everything I just said and out of frustration tries to take quick jabs at me. When I say I have nothing, I mean nothing when they leave me the fuck alone, unfortunately that’s not the case with the Jews in Israel. As for crashing into buildings, c’mon do I really need to cover who was really behind that AI?
        ROFL at you are a beef eating Assamese and you are proud of sharing a clan with someone’s name that sounds like a “mooooslem”, ha ha ha first you bash people “Islamic people” and then you use a something of that criteria as a deflection shield to protect your manhood, you are killing me AI HA HA HA HA HA!!!

      24. There are plenty of short, beef eating Moo(as-in-cow)zlimz in India and you know it.
        Anyway, short men are good people, just not very attractive.

      25. @ Xera
        I became an atheist after being disillusioned by Islam for years, so yes, I am strongly critical of Islam. I don’t bash Muslims (or ‘Islamic peoples’) as you call them, since I believe they are as much a victim of this Arabic cult as I was. The only people who think I am a ‘moosleem’ are your intellectual equals, the Hindutva bigots that you so despise.
         
        Now coming to the Egyptians are superior part. Contrary to your overactive imagination, I didn’t migrate to America or any western country. You did. Unlike Dota, you weren’t an ethno-religious minority in your country, so the only reason you’d immigrate is because you couldn’t put up with that stinkhole that you pretend is a veneer of ‘superior civilisation’. It makes you no different from all those Hindutva NRIs that you argue with, who talk about *their* superior civilisation while living in the United States of America.
         
        Your tendency to blame Israel and America is classic blame game. It is one thing if Palestinians complain about Israel, but it is silly when Egypt does, considering that it is a sovereign state. I can see why you’d hate Jews though, it must be quite humiliating as an Egyptian to be from a country that got hammered by the Jews not once, but twice. No Bani Qurayza for you, I guess.
         
        And what does America have to do with the quagmire your homeland is in? Getting rid of your corrupt regime was the perjorative of you and your fellow Egyptians, not Uncle Sam. For all your swagger about how politically important you are – your homeland went from being a British Protectorate to an underdog banana republic military dictatorship that in the last 60 years, has no achievements other than ganging up on a tiny Jewish state, only to be defeated with a humiliation that is legendary.

      26. “It makes you no different from all those Hindutva NRIs that you argue with, who talk about *their* superior civilisation while living in the United States of America.”
        I avoid those Desi men like the plague. But I don’t meet too many of them anymore. Most Desis, especially us females, are more than happy to be a part of Western Civilization. At least it allows us to be adults.

      27. @ Bhabiji
        “There are plenty of short, beef eating Moo(as-in-cow)zlimz in India and you know it.”
        Indeed. I know a lot of short Muslims and they are all from the cow belt, where slaughtering cows is a bigger crime than slaughtering a dalit. So even if they eat beef on the sly, they aren’t getting enough of it with enough regularity to get the hormones that stimulate adolescent muscle and skeletal growth.
         
        “Anyway, short men are good people, just not very attractive.”
        Really? That was very enlightening, thank you very much. I very much appreciate your opinion, because as a 4′ 11″ who grew up drinking cow piss, I have decided that I should no longer bat for asocial dalit asses with mannish faces, ugly attitude, questionable (Hindu) hygiene and an ethnic propensity to have body hair and body fat levels comparable to my Bihari chauffeur. Maybe I should go inter-racial, so that I can bargain shop and then brag online about all the 7.5s I am ‘dating’. Yup.

      28. AI, beef eating causes tall height…. how?
        Most Punjabis are not beef eaters but many are tall. Naamdhari Sikhs are pure beg, but many are tall. Multi-generational pure vegetarians in both South Asia and the West are not eating beef, yet many are tall.
        You could not interracially date AI, even if you tried.
        Xera, though wrong about many things, is right about that. Desi guys generally cannot compete in the international dating market, and when they can, their mothers always step in to rip off their balls, thus ending any prospects they have.
        Why do you think “weak, effeminite, submissive and servile” are adjectives that have been used to describe the typical Desi male for ……. millenia?
        Sheesh, isn’t about time y’all sort out your mommy issues?

      29. @ Ishmael
        “Minority hate is envious.”
        Indeed. Xera is so transparent that at times, I find him too amusing to respond.
         
        @ Bhabiji
        Hypocritic much? Your om-tat-sat attitude, uncritical distaste of Muslims and your perspective of western civilization as a ‘free sex and feminist’ movement doesn’t make you terribly different from all those desi men you supposedly avoid. After all, desi men appreciate western civilization too, when they have an agenda, such as Muslim bashing or the prospect of sleeping with a white woman.

      30. @ Bhabiji
        “AI, beef eating causes tall height…. how?”
        I am not sure how, but I have noticed the trend. I have known UP Brahmin men who are no taller than 5′ 8″ (shorter than my sisters, in fact), have cousins who were born and grew up in the US and stand taller than 6 feet. Incidentally, they confessed to me that they are big fans of hamburgers while their Pundit parents would die if they find out. There is also a marked difference in size and height between UP ‘Qureshi’ (butcher) Muslims and their Hindu counterparts. In Assam, the ethnic Boros, Karbis and Morans who are Hindus and avoid beef, are small and short while the non-Hindu Tiwa or Axom people are of the taller and bigger ‘warrior clan’ of people. As for Punjabis and pure-beg North Indians, they are consume milk and milk products big time. The same hormones which exist in beef presumably exist in cow’s (or buffalo) milk as well. 3rd generation Punjabis living in Assam on the other hand, lose several inches in a generational leap, perhaps because milk isn’t as widely available in NE India and they can’t eat beef.

      31. @ Bhabiji
        “You could not interracially date AI, even if you tried.”
        Really, Bhabiji? I am terribly saddened to hear that, because of course, what you ‘know’ trumps what had been my dating history. Perhaps if I took your ‘advice’ when I was 12, I might have given it a thought.
         
        “Desi guys generally cannot compete in the international dating market..”
        Well, you have to decide if I am a desi or not. In a past comment, you claimed desi culture is patriarchal, which is the opposite of my native culture, as one of the few surviving matriarchal cultures in the world. And unlike your ‘desh’, we are a tribal people, non-Hindu, no history of caste system and none of the ‘Hinduisms’ that are mainstream in desi land. I am sure I can’t even invite you home for lunch, because you wouldn’t appreciate a diet that is the cousin sister of Thai cuisine.
         
        Mommy issues? Ha ha! You know, that sounded extremely stupid and assumptive, even for a desi who tries her hand at insulting people. The same insults over and over again, even where they don’t stick. My ‘mommy’ died before I was old enough to have a living memory of her. Come up with something more creative than copy-paste-jobs from the Catalog of Anti-Male Shaming Tactics.

      32. “The same hormones which exist in beef presumably exist in cow’s (or buffalo) milk as well.”
        Right. And Indian vegetarians are lacto-vegetarians NOT vegans, so again, you don’t make any sense.
        As far as those adult children of pure veg parents who just luuuuurve their hamburgers and are *tall*, they were raised vegetarian by their parents so there you go.
        I’m not a hypocrite at all. I have said from the beginning that I am opposed to arranged marriage and the joint family structure, as well as living with parents (for men) and in-laws (for women) well into adulthood. I have always been of this opinion and it won’t change.
        That doesn’t mean I can’t love and respect those members of my family who live this way, “hate the sin, not the sinner”.
        As far as Desi men, I said before my first preference as a teenager when I started out dating was of course Desi guys. And I dated DOZENS of them, so they had plenty of chances to prove themselves. With the exception of JUST ONE, they all had the same mommy issues.
        Generally I don’t find White men physically attractive (sorry Steve, there are some exceptions, maybe you’re one?). White people are generally plain looking, nothing extraordinary, nevertheless after a few years of giving Desi men a shot, I exclusively dated non-Desi, mostly White guys, and although their looks didn’t do it for me as such, they were a breath of fresh air because they behaved and conducted their lives LIKE MEN.
        Not a single one of ’em with mommy issues. That’s sexy.

      33. “Well, you have to decide if I am a desi or not.”
        You are. South Asian. Look it up.
        Regarding Thai food, not one of my favorites, I prefer Mexican, Greek and Middle Eastern, but I’ll occasionally cook Thai.
        As far as you not being a typical Desi guy with mommy issues, you made much of the sexual openness of your NE state compared to “mainland Indians” yet upon further interrogation thought teenagers talking to their parents about sex to be “crude”.
        To me, by all accounts that I’ve seen from your comments here, you come across like a typical desi guy.

      34. “…so again, you don’t make any sense.”
        Because you can’t see beyond technical jargons. Lacto-vegetarian doesn’t change that outside of the Punjab-Haryana and other milk rich belts, most vegetarian Indians don’t get adequate milk (or any sort of complete protein) in their diet. Do you really think the average South Indian or UP-Biharwalla gets all his daily protein and other nutritional requirements from his so called ‘lacto-vegetarian’ diet? As an experiment, I fed my dog a kilo of beef everyday when he was a pup and feed him the same till date. And he is bigger and more ferocious than most desi, pedigree fed German Shepherds.
         
        Another observation – the Malayalee and Goan Christians, who are beef eaters are typically taller and fitter than Karnataka or Andhra people who are culturally ‘pure-veg’ people.
         
        Face it, the Hindu vegetarian diets are utter crap. 1) You can’t get all the nutrition 2) You consume too much carbs and 3) You don’t train men to have the kind of masculine strength required to hunt or slaughter big animals 4) You have a warped sense of morality. Killing a cow is sin.
         
        “…they were raised vegetarian by their parents so there you go.”
        Nope. They have been eating hamburgers and other beef/meat products since their school days. There is no Hindutva beef bans in American cafeterias, you know?
         
        And yeah, I, as well as a dozen other commenters in this forum get it that you hate desi men. So whats new? Do you really think I, Dota, Robert Lindsay or anyone here gives a cow’s tail about your taste in men?
         
        You are overtly hung up on defending Hinduism while bashing the men who are a product of your Hindu culture. Face it, Hinduism has to be one of the most regressive religions on earth. Twenty years of Hindu education wouldn’t create a scholar of today’s world, but a Manu of zero moral fibre and personal responsibility.

      35. “…upon further interrogation thought teenagers talking to their parents about sex to be “crude”.”
        Most NE cultures are tribal cultures where two young people dating are assumed to be having sex. Because of the sense of propriety emphasised in socially moderate Catholic (and Muslim) moral codes, it is considered inappropriate to talk to one’s parents about the details of one’s sex life, unless there is a problem (like pregnancy).
         
        North East India IS NOT America, so don’t try washing your superficial idea of American culture to determine which culture is ‘desi’ and which is ‘western’. The world is far more culturally nuanced and diverse than what a desi living in America can fully fathom.

      36. “Most NE cultures are tribal cultures where two young people dating are assumed to be having sex. Because of the sense of propriety emphasised in socially moderate Catholic (and Muslim) moral codes, it is considered inappropriate to talk to one’s parents about the details of one’s sex life, unless there is a problem (like pregnancy).”
        So you’re following Middle Eastern and Italian Abrahamic religious cultures and not your indigenous NE culture?
        WHY?
        You’re own indigenous NE culture wasn’t good enough?
        And don’t give me this crap about “socially moderate” Muslim and Catholic “culture”. Pre-marital sex is a sin in both of those religions. If whatever remnant of indigenous NE culture you managed to hold onto accept sex before marriage, then there’s no reason why anyone would have to sneak around and wouldn’t educated their kids about the importance of contraception, how to avoid STDs, etc, in which case parents and kids would have to talk about it.
        Quit while you’re ahead AI. You’re making a cha phool of yourself.

      37. @ Bhabiji
        “…and not your indigenous NE culture?”
        I don’t ‘follow’ any culture. I am a socially liberal, politically left wing atheist who lived a rather cosmopolitan and socially diverse existence.
         
        “You’re own indigenous NE culture wasn’t good enough?”
        What does ‘good enough’ supposed to mean? Cultures aren’t static, but dynamic entities which have to change according to the times we live in.
         
        “…wouldn’t educated their kids about the importance of contraception, how to avoid STDs…”
        You assume too much and think too little. I was well educated about the nitty-gritty of sex, STDs, contraception, et. el., just not from my parents. We have a ‘sex okay’ culture, so talking to counselors, family planning clinics and those professionally qualified to talk about the subject is no big deal.

      38. @ Babhiji
        I promise you I was trying to link you to another video…Joan Baez singing IT AINT ME BABE! But I’ll leave that one there. Maybe its fate lol!

      39. haha it has linked to the whole ‘favourites’ playlist on my youtube channel. Watch the end of that video and it will start showing the next.

    2. I think you have an idealized view of the SAHM. Many of the SAHMs I have known have been every bit as greedy as the next woman. They’d spend their days watching TV or at the nail salon, while their children were at elementary school and husbands (usually doctors) worked 10 hour work days.

    3. Women don’t need to have large families anymore as children don’t die in infancy. My mother conceived three children during her mid thirties-early forties, and could have had more but it was my father who proved to have fertility problems later on.
      You don’t have tolisten to him, and your son is going to need a sibling to look out for him.

      1. At this point we are 51 and 44 so it is almost certainly too late for more children. The kiddo has two neurotypical cousins to look out for him–their dad is a minister, he and my sister are bringing them up well; if they grow up to be like their Mom and Dad they will be people he can depend on if he needs to. Though the kiddo may adjust well to adult life anyway–he has made remarkable strides in recent years. He is, literally, a genius–if he can find a niche in life, a career he’s comfortable in, he will be OK. He’s also going to be a tall, good looking guy, as far as I can tell at this point. He will probably be OK. I’m still worried of course, but he’ll probably be fine.

    4. My siblings are healthy, but my mother was always ashamed for their classmates’ parents finding out about her age. I don’t believe it is a problem anymore though.

    5. AI, your ignorance is astounding. Hinduism is not a religion. There are hundreds, maybe thousands of religions, philosophies, traditions and cultures that come under “Hinduism”?
      If Hinduism is a religion, which one is it? Kashmir Shaivism?
      Bengali Tantra? How about Bengali Shaktism or Bengali Vaishnavism? Or maybe its South Indian Sri Vaishnavism? Could it be the Aghora marg? Pushti marg perhaps? Or is it Adwaita Vedanta? Or Vashishtadwaita?
      Which one?
      Unfortunately, despite being different religions they all have one thing in common, they follow the traditional South Asian style of family formation, joint family, which is the cause of the majority of India’s problems because it churns out subserviant children instead of adults generation after generation.
      And those South Indians you mention? Most are eating fish and other animals, yes such as beef too, yet many are still short.
      Beef or other animal flesh consumption does not cause tall height. Jains, who are stricter vegetarians than most Hindus, are amongst the tallest in India.
      Now go sneak around and have sex with your girlfriend so your elders don’t find out even though you’re supposed to be a grown man!

      1. “Beef or other animal flesh consumption does not cause tall height.”
        No.
        Heavy meat and dairy eating cultures are larger, taller and stronger. Sure, bodies are built differently across races, but there are numerous, just numerous case studies reputing that. Case Y: Mongols invading China noted how small and weak looking the rice eating chinese looked in comparison to the protein rich meat diets of the Mongols. Case X: Dutch people in WW2. In the 1940s, the average child born in that era was 5’4-5’5. in 2012, it’s 6’2. Nutrition in the forms of dairy and meat help with that growth. High carb diets w/o sufficient protein (lentils and milk alone don’t cut it in most cases) don’t make you tall.
        Vegans in the Western world are just a big fad, whether it be to save the animals or for some white girl discovering her ‘spiritual’ roots. Even they have to work very hard to get their protein in. Most Indians don’t have the luxury, and this nutrition deficit is the reason for their smaller heights, across the board.

      2. “Hinduism is not a religion. There are hundreds…”
        Same old, same old…do you think I never heard that before? Most major religions followed by a large segment of the world’s population usually have thousands of variations and denominations. Hinduism is nothing unique in that regard. There are over 14 denominations among Christians in North East alone and most of them interpret the scriptures in their own way. Among Assamese Muslims alone, there are over 6 schools of thought and 3 sects.
         
        “…they follow the traditional South Asian style of family formation, joint family…”
        Which again, contradicts your assertion that I or Ishmael is a desi. In traditional Axom culture for instance, the smallest unit is a couple while the largest is the tribe. Children were considered a part of the tribe, rather than a ‘property’ of their parents. There was no concept of land ownership and houses weren’t big enough to accomodate large ‘extended’ families.
        nbsp;
        “Most are eating fish and other animals, yes such as beef too, yet many are still short.”
        How many? And how much fish and meat do they consume? Oh wait…you ARE vegetarian, aren’t you? All that desi vegetarian proselytism…it points to the obvious.
         
        “Jains, who are stricter vegetarians than most Hindus, are amongst the tallest in India.”
        Jains DO consume a lot of milk, you know? Besides, they are not all that tall. I have been to Jodhpur on several occasions and most of the men there are of average ‘Indian’ height – whereabouts of 5′ 8″. Which is actually as tall as two of my sisters are.
         
        “…your elders don’t find out even though you’re supposed to be a grown man!”
        Pulling at straws, extrapolating desi Hindu euphemisms to non-desi tribal cultures. Mommy issues? Ha ha! Elders don’t find out? Double ha ha! My native culture doesn’t have the kind of parenting system or top down social hierarchy of your feudal, casteist Hindu culture. Besides, I am no longer an economically dependant 13 year old. Try better next time.
         
        For all your complaints about the ‘argumentative desi’ you are pathologically argumentative desi, even if your arguments consist of nothing but non sequiturs and argumentum ad absurdum.

      3. Sigh. Get over the height thing, brah. The average of the North American male is 5’9″, just an inch shorter than your 5’8″ carb loving brahmins. When I say short I mean SHORT. Like 5’4″ and below, which yes, many desi guys, including non-veggies, are.
        And great! Your NE state is all nuclear family with no joint, awesome! But Afghanistanis live in joint family households.
        The joint family structure is not exclusive to South Asia, Arabs do it also, but it is more prevelant in South Asia.
        Are you ashamed of it? What’s your take on it?

      4. “Sigh. Get over the height thing, brah.”
        You brought up the height thing so there is nothing *I* have to ‘get over’. It was an argument. What needs a good ‘get overing’ is your pathological obsession with desi guys and their apparent obsession with their mothers. Yeah, we are all convinced that the grapes indeed are sour.
         
        I have not met just one Indian who lived in a joint family. She was a girl. And I know A LOT of Indians, since I have been living in the Hindu mainland for many years. Even my chauffeur has his own house where he lives with his wife. So I am not too convinced it exists or is in any way mainstream in most of India.
         
        “Heavy meat and dairy eating cultures are larger, taller and stronger.”
        I have since single generation jumps in height (>6 inches) because of meat consumption by progenies of Hindu Brahmins who were vegetarians (who consume milk very sporadically). My dog, fed beef and meat throughout his growing years is bigger than the his pedigree fed breeds.
         
        Apart from the height thing, it is also pretty much impossible to built decent lean muscle mass from Hindu style vegetarian diets or their (very limited) ‘non-veg’ diets (such as a huge helping of rice and a small piece chicken/fish with curry). Its probably what contributes to their small and skinny size, something Hindus deny is a fault of their culture.

      5. “since I have been living in the Hindu mainland for many years. Even my chauffeur has his own house where he lives with his wife. So I am not too convinced it exists or is in any way mainstream in most of India.”
        What?! Where in the “mainland” do you live? It is the most common form of family structure in the “mainland”.
        Regarding “skinny Hindus”, the very poor are. Middle class on up are fat asses.

      6. AI
        “”Even my chauffeur has his own house where he lives with his wife. So I am not too convinced it exists or is in any way mainstream in most of India.””
        It’s true that the joint family is slowly fading away, at least in Urban centers. I see less of it every time I fly back. I suspect like most ABCDs Bhabi’s perception of India is frozen in time and is rendered static by bad Sharukh Khan movies.

      7. “It’s true that the joint family is slowly fading away, at least in Urban centers. I see less of it every time I fly back.”
        The majority of my time in India is not spent in the urban centers. Its spent in my ancestral homes, both of which are in villages, and visiting relatives in towns. Yes, you are correct that in the metropolises the joint family is SLOWLY eroding. You were correct to use that word.
        Most of my friends in the urban centers live in joint families too.

      8. Ishu, that kid and his parents are proud of that video. This is what kills me.
        Bhabiji hangs her head in shame and proceeds to do 1008 surya namaskaras as atonement on behalf of her broad genetic kin. And when I say broad, I mean broad!
        Health and hotness are two values that are lost on most Desis.

      9. I live all over, mostly in the large cities. Lived for longer stints in Delhi and Kolkata. Just one joint family that I know of. Just one. Its either something that happens only in rural areas where disposable incomes are too low to ‘move out’ or isn’t as common as you say it is.
         
        “Regarding “skinny Hindus”, the very poor are. Middle class on up are fat asses.”
        Middle class are skinny fat till they are in their 20s or so, then they start to blow up. Bulldozers by the time they are 30.

      10. Dota, you are getting married, soon, is your financee of the same caste as you? Was your marriage arranged or not?
        AI, I’ve been Delhi and Kolkata many times, with friends, and all the homes I stayed in were joint. Joint family is the majority structure of India. As far as earning enough to move out, surely the Ambanis and Rai are wealthy enough but they never did. Rai bragged on American television interviews with both Oprah and Letterman about living with her parents and then in-laws, even taking a few digs at Americans and divorce, and “taking appointments to have dinner with parents” . “taking” was not the right syntax but anyway, I don’t know what you are trying to prove here but everyone knows that the joint family structure is the main family structure in India, even in urban areas and even amongst the rich. The exceptions to this are when one has to leave home for work or education, or when one’s fiancee/wife demands to live separate from the in-laws, in which case she gets called a “RADICAL FEMINAZI” by Indian MRA wannabes and mama’s boys.
        Even Dota said it was “slowly” aroding in the URBAN centers. Slowly and urban being the key terms.
        You are sorely out of touch with “mainland India” but that might be a good thing.
        What about in your state? Do average and low earning couples live with the parents of the husband or not? Do the rich ALWAYS live in nuclear family? Do tell.

      11. Dota, ok so your fiancee is the same caste as you. Was that by design or just coincidence? If by design, why? What is the benefit of marrying within caste, if any?

      12. I met her in Mumbai, found her to be attractive, but more importantly, deemed her values to be sound. I’m from the trader caste, or rather my denomination was converted from the traders (Vaish) caste (although alternative sources claim that we Bohras were originally a Brahmin caste but I’m not sure about that). Marrying within your caste = similar values. I would hate marrying into a conservative Paki family. I’m not averse to marrying a Hindu woman either. In short, I believe people should marry their own kind. The only exception I would make here would be marrying a Persian woman, preferably from my Great grandmother’s town of Shiraz.

      13. @ Bhabiji
        “…all the homes I stayed in were joint. Joint family is the majority structure of India.”
        If your unmarried friends are living at the parent’s home (which is quite common in India), it isn’t a joint family. It is just kids living with their parents, which is rather common in India (due to high real estate prices and low starting salaries for young people).
         
        “I don’t know what you are trying to prove here but everyone knows that the joint family structure is the main family structure in India”
        I didn’t say it doesn’t exist, but that it might not be as mainstream as you make it out to be. All the married desis I have known (and I know a lot of them) live on their own, with their wives/husbands. The joint family is a Hindu cultural practice thats on the decline.
         
        “You are sorely out of touch with “mainland India” but that might be a good thing.”
        I am ‘sorely out of touch’ with the India depicted in Hindi soap operas. Thats probably a good thing, because if I were addicted to TV, I’d probably have been socially inept, like you.
         
        “What about in your state?”
        My states (plural) have over 200 ethno-cultural groups so there really isn’t a straight definitive answer.

  3. Yikes, Robert, Perhaps you need to meet women in places where you can really see what she is like by the way she treats the people around her. I met my hubby while at work, and we have been happy together. I really don’t know of many happy long lasting relationships that are formed in bars or nightclubs..Perhaps trying to meet women at church, in their workplaces, and even in a grocery store if she catches your eye might be a good idea. It would be wonderful to see you happily involved in a loving relationship.

  4. “Truly the best men are being selected for over the losers and creeps.”
    No they aren’t. Every couple of weeks TheRoot.com (a black news site) runs a story on some NFL or NBA player with 15 children by 10 women. You think they’re growing up to solve cancer and climate change?

  5. “The MRA and PUA sites are noting that there is a situation where female hypergamy exists to an extreme degree (guys like me benefited from this”
    Uh, how have you benefitted from hypergamy, exactly?

    1. Read Beatrix’s complaint about she claims is me “bragging” about my sex life and the numbers therein. If you go by numbers alone, supposedly, I’ve lived life as one of those “Alphas.”

      1. Yeah but hypergamy denotes movin’ on up. So were wealthier than the women you slept with? More educated? Better looking? What was the hyper in their gamy wrt you?

        1. No it doesn’t. In the MRA/PUA view, it’s just hordes of women practicing hypergamy with a few Alphas, who honestly may not have a lot to offer them other than Game and other bullshit.
          I wasn’t better in any way than the women I had sex with. Except smarter. And yes more educated. I was just a typical Alpha dog relying on good looks and charm to get as much sex as I could. I didn’t have anything going honestly. I never have, LOL.

  6. Regarding “creepy” what do you guys think of this assessement?
    Four males with identical behavior, approach a woman in exactly the same way.
    They get four different results depending on their attraction and comfort scores:
    + attraction + comfort — she wants to marry him
    + attraction – comfort — she wants to f*** him
    – attraction +comfort — she wants to be his “friend”
    – attraction – comfort — she thinks he’s “creepy”
    And unless the guy is really good at reading a woman’s nonverbal signals — a skill most men don’t develop until they’ve had significant sexual experience — he has NO WAY of knowing which category he falls into, before making the approach.

    1. I do mostly agree with this assessment, except for the second one. A guy can be attractive, but if he makes any wrong move or does not make a girl feel completely comfortable with him, then that does not guarantee a fuck.
      Good looking girls can get laid whenever they want. Not necessarily the case for good looking guys.

      1. aren’t alphas males (they are the good looking guys, or no?) supposed to be making out better than anyone, basically monopolizing and fucking their way through half the female population?

      2. If a woman can step all over him in conversation or take advantage of his looks for sex, the attractive guy is suddenly a major beta. Case: good looking men with disgusting, dominating wives.
        Women are the same way. She can be a bombshell, but if she sleeps with EVERYONE, including your barber, her ’10’ looks don’t mean a thing.
        But women are attracted by control. They love it when a man controls other men. A man has to work and claw up there. A woman has to have a touch of good genetics and exercise in order to be seen as the better trophy. A hunky janitor won’t be nailing alpha women 10s.

        1. I remember reading how ‘alpha’ white skinned leaders on the top of the casta system in Bolivia were exceptionally good looking. Something to look into. Our ideals of beauty have hardly changed – blondes have it better!

        2. “A hunky janitor won’t be nailing alpha women 10s.”
          Not at all true in the African American scene.

        3. “Our ideals of beauty have hardly changed – blondes have it better!”
          What do blondes have to do with light skinned Bolivians? And is it true that blonde men are considered more attractive than darker haired men?
          Why is “tall, dark and handsome” a popular worldwide meme?
          Why do gingers get so much flack then?
          Why is “tall, dark and handsome” such a popular worldwide meme?

        4. Ideals of beauty have not changed. Granted it’s hard to find blondes in Bolivia, but even in Bolivia, blondes are seen as beautiful. Higher ups in Latin American countries may not be blonde blonde, but they have lighter features, higher IQs, and are more attractive. Fact. You see the same with girls in rich suburbs and rural/inner city ‘Precious’ girls.
          Pashtuns, a light skinned race, used to raid Nuristani villages to get blonde women.
          Men see women more for their aesthetic beauty. A blonde is seen as one with better traits for reproduction. Blondes don’t necessarily increase the chance of one’s survival or help in getting resources, and are less important for women choosing men. I assume it makes them more attractive to women than negro men, though.
          Look sweetheart, the ‘game’ is simply not fair. In almost every corner of the world, lighter skinned people have it better. Darker skinned people have to work much harder. And (racist moment), most people are not attracted to darkies. Women still see the men as slave labor, and the men see them as animals. The media is working hard to stop this, but it will always remain.

        5. Ishmael, are you under the impression that the majority of the worlds populations prefer blonde men?

        6. “Blondes don’t necessarily increase the chance of one’s survival or help in getting resources, and are less important for women choosing men. I assume it makes them more attractive to women than negro men, though.”
          It’s different for men and women bhab. Women want POWER from their man. And most power positions were historically held by lighter skinned peoples. It could be a guy with black hair, or blonde hair. The color doesn’t translate to power, like in women’s circles. Lighter skinned people are more attractive in Africa, in Latin America, in China, in Arabia, in Europe.
          Blondes are attractive to men because they are seen as better quality. Aesthetics alone are more important for men. Among a mixed race group, there will never be a ’10’ black or mestizo woman.Their eyes (typically blue or green) are seen as sexy because dilating eyes can easier
          be seen – signaling attraction.

        7. Ish, which men are attracted to blondes over brunettes? Nigerians? Tunisians? Morroccans? Japanese? Finns? Taiwanese? Tibetans? Danish? Sri Lankans? Bangladeshis?
          Who?

        8. I have a hard time believing Ishmael on the Pashtuns claim, there have been raids on neighboring tribes since the dawn of human history.

        9. Ishmael, that can’t be right about the so called blondes/dark skinned people, it was well known that Blacks and Black slaves were known for fucking and consenting with numerous white women when they were free or had the chance to be free. I am assuming this includes blondes, in places such as the Nordic countries, Blacks have no problem pulling and historically they didn’t have problems pulling blondes despite their societal disadvantages and they were primarily dark skinned. If anything being big, muscular, intelligent, having a deep voice and lots of tester one is what got males on the top of the hierarchy anywhere. Those are the exact same traits ironically that females, or modern day primitive American women find sexually attractive and prim ally lust over in their dreams.
          There are many “blondes” with a black father or black ancestor, Gabrielle Reece, the racist girl on Nip/Tuck, many well known actresses back in the day. Also you can artificially dye your hair color and change your color, which sort of defeats your argument.

        10. Xera
          Interesting that you mention that about blacks. I recall a story from the 1001 nights where king Shahryar caught his wife in bed with a black slave. This is the only medieval source that I can recall of the top of my head.

        11. ” Blacks have no problem pulling and historically they didn’t have problems pulling blondes despite their societal disadvantages and they were primarily dark skinned. If anything being big, muscular, intelligent, having a deep voice and lots of tester one is what got males on the top of the hierarchy anywhere. Those are the exact same traits ironically that females, or modern day primitive American women find sexually attractive and prim ally lust over in their dreams.”
          Blacks are a great example. If a black is high status in American or Latino society, he tries to marry a lighter skinned black woman or, if he’s feeling ambitious, a white woman. It ‘ups’ him and his children up the social ladder. Blacks and indians (in Latin America) are pretty well known for being licentious. And men will fuck licentious things. In ‘World on Fire’, Chua notes how recently immigrated poor Spanish men, that previously worked as farmers, were prime targets for high income mulatto/mestizo women.
          In America, the most attractive black women have the most amount of white in them. In India, the most attractive people are lighter skinned. In
          China, whiteness is seen as attractive. I don’t have the sources to explain why – that’s just the way it is.
          PSYCHOLOGY TODAY :http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/200706/ten-politically-incorrect-truths-about-human-nature
          “Blond hair is unique in that it changes dramatically with age. Typically, young girls with light blond hair become women with brown hair. Thus, men who prefer to mate with blond women are unconsciously attempting to mate with younger (and hence, on average, healthier and more fecund) women. It is no coincidence that blond hair evolved in Scandinavia and northern Europe, probably as an alternative means for women to advertise their youth, as their bodies were concealed under heavy clothing.
          Women with blue eyes should not be any different from those with green or brown eyes. Yet preference for blue eyes seems both universal and undeniable—in males as well as females. One explanation is that the human pupil dilates when an individual is exposed to something that she likes. For instance, the pupils of women and infants (but not men) spontaneously dilate when they see babies. Pupil dilation is an honest indicator of interest and attraction. And the size of the pupil is easiest to determine in blue eyes. Blue-eyed people are considered attractive as potential mates because it is easiest to determine whether they are interested in us or not.

        12. And regarding blonde haired Afghans. Blonde haired women from the Pamirs, who were Tajiks (and also Kafiristan) were very much prized for their beauty. Sadly, many women brought from these remote altitudes by Kabulis died due to climate/alt differences when they came to Kabul.

        13. More from my link:
          “Long before TV—in 15th- and 16th- century Italy, and possibly two millennia ago—women were dying their hair blond. A recent study shows that in Iran, where exposure to Western media and culture is limited, women are actually more concerned with their body image, and want to lose more weight, than their American counterparts. It is difficult to ascribe the preferences and desires of women in 15th-century Italy and 21st-century Iran to socialization by media.”

        14. Blacks only find lighter people attractive because of societal pressure to do so and because they want to be accepted into mainstream society. I have known black men that have rejected “snow bunnies” because they were involved with their own women. If anything, a black men would rather choose a light skinned mulatto over a an actual blonde because they find the latter more attractive. This argument that you mention is nothing new and has been debunked time and time again. Robert himself posted responses of white nationalists making the exact same claims of blacks lusting after white women which turned out actually to be false. There was a case study on where a blonde blue eyed female aid worker traveled to a remote African tribe and asked if they found her attractive, they said no and that she looked like a “ghost” and was rather unattractive. If anything it’s conditioning that has made Blacks the way you claim. Now India is a completely different story and continent, which is something I don’t want to discuss here. However the common claim of blondes being rare and white gold is something only partially true and in many cases false. Your actual logic and argument is just a common fallacious claim with only surface plausibility to it.

        15. Well, in the Americas, Europe, Asia, Northern Africa – my claims are true.
          Sure, black tribesmen would not want to bang a blond from 2000 miles away, but I assure you – lighter skinned blacks (assuming same tribe and culture) are seen as more attractive than darker skinned ones. I’m talking about women only. In terms of men, the color doesn’t mean as much because it may not be a good indicator of other factors, like testosterone, or wealth. They may go for the Terry Crews type.

        16. So “light traits” REALLY DID EVOLVE IN HIGH ALTITUDES/NORTHERN PLACES, is there any more evidence or samples of this evolution actually concurring in peoples?
          However, now Ishmael, do you really believe that evolution would select traits based on how a creature had clothes on? If you think that then you don’t know much about evolution because that’s amateur darwinism and articles such as the one you posted are the regular of these criteria, which basically asserts facts with causal relationships.

        17. Gee, I’m not going to explain HOW they got blonde. Just why they’re more attractive. I don’t know if it’s elevation or what. I don’t agree with psychologytoday’s argument about the clothing bit either. I’m just pointing the fact that men prefer blondes or lighter skinned women.

        18. No they won’t because you are just pulling that without actual documentation or evidence. Don’t give me the BS that African Blacks find lighter skinned more attractive etc etc and then refer to Blacks in the Western hemispheres or formal colonies, without mentioning the same X tribe encountering the White blonde aid worker. When you said ” I bet you”, then that’s when you lost all credibility in what you have to say since I just disproved that blondes have a natural component that would sway even an isolated African tribe, which is pretty much false.
          If anything, a black finding a lighter skinned mulatto more attractive physically then an actual blonde Caucasian in a vacuum without any sort of societal pressure is enough to disprove the same old BS white nationalist universal supremacy argument. Plus why would lighter skinned women find darker and taller/tester one ridden men more attractive? The causal relationship there doesn’t make much sense.

        19. Well, excellent points regarding using a remote african tribe as an experiment. I don’t have any sources to back it up, so I’m clearly not 100% certain. But if the rest of the non black world is any indication – lighter skinned is perceived as more beautiful. Is it based of a more youthful appearance? I don’t know. It’s just the way it is. Assuming since almost every other culture prefers lighter skin (mongoloids prob don’t find blond attractive), I would assume the same would be in this african tribe.
          Societal or instinct. I don’t know. It’s just the way it is.
          And I’m married to a brown eyed/haired woman that I’ll take over any ‘pale blonde’. So I’ll leave it at that.
          Good job on finding holes in the argument. Maybe someone got better sources on this or research.

        20. “A recent study shows that in Iran, where exposure to Western media and culture is limited, women are actually more concerned with their body image, and want to lose more weight, than their American counterparts. ”
          Iran has the most nose jobs in the world too. So?

        21. Ok well if you are a person who is dissatisfied with not being pale enough, the best bet for you is to go to the nearest snow capped mountain range or just go to Central Asia and live in a nomadic lifestyle until you can get what you want. I am sure most Persians or Indians can do this right? It’s the only hope they have of changing themselves, right everyone?

        22. It’s just the way it is! Ha!
          What can I say? It’s a larger problem for women since more value is placed on aesthetics when it comes to their ‘alpha’ qualities. Can’t really climb the alpha ladder all the way to the top if they’re too swarthy.
          It’s just the cold, hard truth.

        23. Swarthy females are the most attractive, that’s why blondes just want to tan along with other white females. I think you just meant females that are just plain unattractive.

        24. The version of 1001 Nights I read had a team of black slaves doing all kinds of acrobatics to pleasure the queen and her handmaids.
          “The Black Masculine Mystique” is something that goes hundreds of not thousands of years back. It doesn’t just have to do with their size, because not all of them are hung like gods, it has to do with muscle mass, rhythm and seduction skills, and possibly stronger pheromones than other men.
          This is something that I read and agree with. Men of all races have a thing or 3 to learn from the brothas.
          You know, I have to say, this is not an issue in the Black and Latino communities. That women are visually stimulated and blatant objectifiers of the male physique is a no-brainer to them. Their cultures have not yet, and hopefully never will, lose touch of the fact that physical fitness and rhythm (dance) are two traits that play major roles in female sexual attraction. The only people who seem to be surprised are White men. Anyone here who watches black rom-coms will note the objectification of the black male physique to a greater degree than the white male physique is objectified in white rom-coms. There is always at least one scene of shirtless, muscular, sweaty men playing Basketball in every Black rom-com, and its not there for the heterosexual men in the audience, that is for sure. The half naked physically fit muscular male physique and its accompany swagger (rhythm) is showcased throughout those movies. Displays of rhythmic skills in the form of dancing are common.
          Watch this video of women movie goers and note their language about Magic Mike from about the halfway mark on.
          “if only this movie was in 3D”
          “a lot of asses, I’ll say that, you see a lot of asses”
          “Enough?” “A decent amount, a decent amount, it’ll definitely get your blood goin’ ”
          “Were you so distracted you couldn’t pay attention to the story?”
          ” A little bit, yeah”
          “What made you go and see this movie today?”
          “The nudity”
          “Can a straight guy go and see this movie?”
          “He can get a lot of good tips, I can tell ya that much, us ladies will appreciate it.”
          “What do you think of this growing trend of male nudity in movies?”
          “I’m all for it.” …. “Finally!” … “Us women we always have to put up with it (female nudity) in every movie, and we’re out there and its like ‘ok sure’ but now with the guys there’s finally something for us. I like it!”
          “What was the mood like in the theatre?
          “Very verbal.”
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEnRLObWDqw&feature=related

        25. “Women with blue eyes should not be any different from those with green or brown eyes. Yet preference for blue eyes seems both universal and undeniable—in males as well as females. ”
          What? “universal”? The vast majority of the planet are regions where blue eyes never pop up, ok maybe one in a million. This “universal” study was comprised on western european white people, like most of the so called “universal scientific studies”.

        26. “If you only date 7.5s minimum, you better be hot!”
          Why?
          ” I’m coming, geopolitical naivete or not. (joking).”
          Coming?!
          As far as the gp naivete, believe me, I’ve been to most of the countries we’ve talked about on here and I’m not a believer in cultural relativity.
          By the way, is this Steve Jaan from UK? If so didn’t your moniker used to be Steve, not Steven?
          Post your pic as well.

        27. Yes its me. I didn’t mean coming like that! I meant ‘I’m on my way, I’m coming for you’ but I was just playing. Don’t worry. I’m neither coming nor coming.
          Travelling around doesn’t make you an expert in geopolitics, obviously. Not that I am one either but come one, Jews ruling Egypt…not exactly a realistic proposition, is it? I don’t see it working somehow.
          Why you better be hot? Because I think only someone at the higher end herself is in a position to have such high standards.

        28. I’m automatically Steven sometimes for some reason. I don’t know if its because I’m on my mum’s laptop.
          I posted a longer reply but its awaiting moderation for some reason.
          I didn’t mean coming in a sexual way. I’m a gentleman. I was just messing around.

      3. “Good looking girls can get laid whenever they want.”
        “Getting laid whenever they want” is not something good looking women want.
        Getting satisfying sex, and emotional commitment from the men she sees as hot and high quality? Now that’s something else.

        1. Getting satisfying sex, and emotional commitment from the men she sees as hot and high quality? Now that’s something else.
          In other words, they want an absolutely perfect alpha male, who also happens to be loyal.
          You do realize that you’re simply proving Robert’s point about female hypergamy and their ridiculously high standards?

        2. Goddess: Getting satisfying sex, and emotional commitment from the men she sees as hot and high quality? Now that’s something else.
          Bay Area Dude: In other words, they want an absolutely perfect alpha male, who also happens to be loyal.
          You do realize that you’re simply proving Robert’s point about female hypergamy and their ridiculously high standards?
          Goddess: Not at all. That’s why I was careful to word it “from the men SHE SEES as hot and high value”. Every woman has her own type. There are plenty of women out there who prefer to bottom feed.
          I told you previously to drop the “alpha/beta” no-definitive-definition-whatever-some-random-farter-in-da-mra-sphere-says-it-means-at-any-given-time lingo.

        3. BAG and Bobby Ji, regarding this so called “hypergamy” please see Mad Men’s Joan Holloway, actress Christina Hendricks who was voted Sexiest Woman in the World and America’s Best Looking Woman, with her not so good looking Bengali husband, and remember she’s more famous and richer than he is too;
          http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-qv44uhjAZ00/TXn1wEkzliI/AAAAAAAAAG4/9dDrce_m6g8/christina%2Bhendricks%2Bhusband.jpg&imgrefurl=http://niketalk.yuku.com/reply/12083029/–Brandi–Storage-Wars–baddest-broad–television-&h=400&w=400&sz=34&tbnid=FYy1La6pzerC4M:&tbnh=92&tbnw=92&zoom=1&usg=__VkDZdlhluZa1ztiUgLujiKA7H5A=&docid=Oiv4rhtMB0LfiM&hl=en&sa=X&ei=ZLQYUJfLNoeQ8wTP0YGoAg&sqi=2&ved=0CF8Q9QEwAw&dur=47

        4. Xera, you nitwit – OLD EAST PAKISTAN i.e Bangladesh. Like I said, homeboy be Bengali.
          While there are many goodlooking Bengalis out there, he ain’t one of them, though he has a typical Bengali look.
          So where’ the “hypergamy” in the “sexiest woman in the world”? …. hmmmmmm?

        5. He’s half white and half Pakistani, nowhere does it state that he is from East Pakistan or his parents are. His dad is white which defeats the purpose of this argument and he is probably a white guy in real life.

        6. No, it DOES NOT defeat the purpose of the argument, which is not whether he’s bengali or not (he is of bengali descent) its that he is NOT good looking and married to “the sexiest woman in the world” and “the best looking American woman” as rated by Esquire. She is also way more famous than he is….. so back to the ORIGINAL QUESTION…..
          where is the “hypergamy” here?
          If we would expect ANY body to be hypergamous, it would be “the sexiest woman in the world”
          Damn you are daft!

        7. I don’t see any proof that he is Bengali, please show me the links because I don’t see anywhere where it says he is from that location. He is 6.3 which defeats the purpose of your argument, he is better then looking then 99.3% of East Asians and probably most Indians too, whom should never be allowed to be near any attractive women of any other race.
          If he is Half-Pakistani, which is a Caucasoid race and half White, both of the same genetic family, then he is for all intents and purposes FULL WHITE due to his appearance. This is the same claim made to people such as Mark Paul Goseller who is part Indonesian but he is for all intents and purposes, “WhIte”.

        8. Xera, you are really stupid. Bengalis are caucasians.
          You are all over the place in your comments and race analysis, saying one thing one time, something else and contradictory the next. Equating South Indian with Dravidan with Dalit with “classes” or “castes” (2 different things).
          Its all average to below average IQ gibberish.
          If you are Egyptian Muslim I chalk it up to the cognitive challenges faced by products of multi-generational cousin incest.
          The bottom line is, I don’t care if this guy is from Timbuktu or an ugly, thin-skinned, no-lipped Scotts-Irish.
          HE IS NOT GOOD LOOKING and that is the entire point.
          Now fuck off and go fuck your cousin you idiot.

        9. You didn’t provide any links or anywhere where it said he was Bengali, and neither did I say that they were not Caucausians. However he is for all intents and purposes white because he is a 100% Caucasian and he looks white on the outside and talks like a White guy hence he is a white guy, that’s how it works and no one would imagine otherwise.
          “You are all over the place in your comments and race analysis, saying one thing one time, something else and contradictory the next. Equating South Indian with Dravidan with Dalit with “classes” or “castes” (2 different things).
          Its all average to below average IQ gibberish.
          If you are Egyptian Muslim I chalk it up to the cognitive challenges faced by products of multi-generational cousin incest.
          The bottom line is, I don’t care if this guy is from Timbuktu or an ugly, thin-skinned, no-lipped Scotts-Irish.
          HE IS NOT GOOD LOOKING and that is the entire point.
          Now fuck off and go fuck your cousin you idiot.”
          You are just another retarded moron that’s ugly and doesn’t have an original identity or know how races work but are trying to belong somewhere; clearly you have no fucking idea about what you were talking about the Dravidians and neither did you offer any convincing argument taint’s what I said. Nowhere did I ever contradict myself in anything and my arguments were 100% true, it’s just that you were too stupid to grasp what I was saying. Anyway the guy is good looking compared to 99.3% of Asian males which is a large portion of the planet plus a majority of Indian males as well, so I would say he is decent looking not ugly.
          Funny about Egyptians marrying their cousins and them being ALL “MOOOSLEMS”, you are so retarded and don’t know shit about Egypt/Egyptian history (or anything really) that you are really starting to make me laugh now.

        10. Sigh, I’ll try to be as clear with you as I have to be with my toddler nieces and nephews.
          The point is hypergamy. The sexiest woman in the world, whom one would expect to be hypergamous if anyone was, married an unnattractive man who is not as famous as she is.
          That is the point. Not that he is Bengali, Pakistani, any other type of Desi, Scottish, Irish, Welsh, German, Finnish, Japanese or whatever.
          If anything the bengali genes are what attracted her to him, as she herself states in interviews she loves his black, curly hair, typical of bengalis. If anything is making this guy ugly its his WHITE GENES, which would account for why he’s aging so badly.
          But again, what the fuck does his ethnic background have to do with the fact that this is not a hypergamous union on behalf of Christina?
          And yes, you’re SouthIndian-Dravidian-Dalit-SocialClasses-Caste clusterfuck is just that – A CLUSTERFUCK!
          You don’t know what the hell you are talking about and you’ve never been to India. If you wen there you wouldn’t be able to tell who was who and who was from where accurately because your clusterfuck is all wrong.
          And are you telling me that Egyptian Muslims DON’T marry their cousins? I know for a fact that they do because I dated Egyptian men who were products of that sick, demented incest.
          You should be so lucky to have high IQ Jews take over your country and set it straight.

        11. I understand the point of the argument, but nowhere did I see that he was half-Bengali in any of my google searches and you didn’t provide any links to that, so you failed to do a basic task. My point is the guy is average looking compared to 99.3% of East Asian males and most Indian males. Because of this population disparity, he’s the not the best looking but decent looking and in all likelihood he has social status+money, so decent looks+status+money=hypergamy and lots of women.
          I love how you think all Egyptians are inbred and Muslims given the history of the place, of which you don’t know absolute fuck about. Yes idiot ignore the fact that large portions have Arabic/Persian/Kurdish/Roman/Phoenician/Greek/Black and even traces of ALBANIAN blood and ignore the large amounts of Copts/other minorities that played a role in the country. Seriously you such a fucking idiot, you still can’t bother to look up information of my country when it matters, dimwit. I highly doubt you even dated an Egyptian because they are pretty racist and have other options in the U.S (the infamous blonde viking white women) and they really aren’t fond of “Indians”. This applies to all ME+Levantine countries actually, who have a bad opinion of South Asians, especially the Dravidian ones.
          As for IQ, well we built the pyramids, the Sphinx, modern civilization, water plugs, and loads of others things that most Jews wouldn’t survive without. I don’t think you have ever been to Egypt, or know about the “IQ’s of Egyptians”, but rest assured it’s far exceeding for you and your kinsmen to grasp.

        12. Whew, personal attacks aside guys. “Incest!” god shut up Bhab.
          Bengalis are darker skinned (yes, they’re Caucasian). But they’re seen as less attractive. Xera’s Right. The guy you mentioned is light skinned and does not look Bengali.
          Hypergamy? I don’t think so. Paki or not, the guy is successful in his own right. Sure, he finds Joan’s skin/race more attractive, but it’s not hypergamy. In fact, considering he looks like a dweeb and married to a bombshell, we can conclude this guy got game. It also proves that women place far less emphasis on looks than on power. If women were attracted to aesthetics the way men are, she would marry a runway male model.

        13. “I love how you think all Egyptians are inbred and Muslims given the history of the place”
          Never said that, idiot. I said “if” you are Muslim it is likely you could be inbred as are MANY Muslims.
          And you did not “build the pyramids” other people did. Egypt at that time was a pre-Abrahamic civilization. Most Egyptians now are Abrahamics – Muslims, Christian, some Jews, hell even the Bahais ride on the bandwagon of that foolishness.
          Your temples are not even utilized as places of worship anymore as they should be, but are relegated to museums.
          We’d love to see a pre-Abrahamic idol worshipping revival in Egypt but you fools have drunk the Abrahamic monotheistic koolaid and it doesn’t look like that will happen any time soon.

        14. Alpha women (man, is Joan fine) marry or mate with alpha males. The paki guy got something powerful about him that attracts Joan. Bhab, you kind of make it sound as if Joan is doing this man a favor. I highly doubt that’s the case.

        15. “And are you telling me that Egyptian Muslims DON’T marry their cousins? I know for a fact that they do because I dated Egyptian men who were products of that sick, demented incest.
          You should be so lucky to have high IQ Jews take over your country and set it straight.”
          Wow, this is how to troll an Egyptian ladies and gentlemen.

        16. Let’s play Bhabgi dated:
          Black guy
          Afro-Centrist guy that’s not Black
          A handful of Afghan refugees
          A handful of Indians from all castes.
          An Egyptian guy
          Am I missing anything else here?

        17. Let’s play Bhabgi dated:
          Black guy
          Afro-Centrist guy that’s not Black
          A handful of Afghan refugees
          A handful of Indians from all castes.
          An Egyptian guy
          Am I missing anything else here?

          The football team.

        18. Ishmael,
          is a rich fat, ugly guy with a hot young wife an alpha male? If so, are all rich guys alpha males? What about a computer geek with poor social skills?

        19. “Bengalis are darker skinned (yes, they’re Caucasian). But they’re seen as less attractive. Xera’s Right. The guy you mentioned is light skinned and does not look Bengali.”
          WTF? “darker skinned” than whom???? Have you people EVER been to South Asia. You have no idea what you’re talking about. Bengalis run the full gamut of brown from light to dark, just like Indians from all states. And YES he LOOKS Bengali. I know how to spot one, not you people who have never been to either West Bengal or Bangladesh (old East Pakistan).
          I do not think Joan/Christian is “doing this man a favor”. She is very vocal about her love for him.
          MY POINT IS: It is NOT a hypergamous union by any stretch.
          And I’m not “trolling the Egyptian” with my high IQ Jews comment.
          I sincerely think Egypt would be better off run by high IQ Jews than it is today. Whats wrong with that? Jews would give Bahais their rights in Egypt, as the international Bahai headquarters is located in Haifa Israel since the Iranians ran them out.

        20. Steven, I misread Bhabgi’s hypergamy bit. I took it the other way around. I was trying to prove that Joan was NOT dating this guy as a favor, and Bhab agrees with that.
          The guy has power in his career and also game, Steven. If he could attract Joan, he got something other than his career going for him. More successful, better looking men would be clamoring for Joan. It’s not his looks either. He is one ugly dude by Euro standards. But who am I to make a statement like that?
          Point is, I don’t see many highly successful men with women that look far worse than them. Men place more importance on aesthetics, while women place it more on dominating power. And computer whizzes are not known for their dominating social power.

        21. “But she did get Xera to display his own hypocrisy.”
          Indeed. I think Xera and Bhabiji would make a cute couple, they are of the same emotional and intellectual level (even though both of them would kill than admit it).

        22. ‘And I’m not “trolling the Egyptian” with my high IQ Jews comment.
          I sincerely think Egypt would be better off run by high IQ Jews than it is today. ‘Whats wrong with that? Jews would give Bahais their rights in Egypt, as the international Bahai headquarters is located in Haifa Israel since the Iranians ran them out.’
          Yeah but it was still a great example of how to troll an Egyptian, whether you meant it or not.
          ‘What’s wrong with that?’
          I don’t know where to start. I really don’t. What can you say to this?

        23. Fat guys with hot wives alpha males? Could be. Some men have such tremendous social and career power to be in that position. But if they’re in that position anyway (in a professional sphere), he had alpha characteristics already.
          Trump/Ivanka. Trump is simply alpha. I hate that bastard to death, but he’s alpha.
          Sheldon Adelson/his wife – Alpha. Too much social power.
          Alpha males often have POWER OVER OTHER MEN. These guys are responsible for the lives of hundreds, if not thousands of employees. Therefore, they are mini kings or alphas. Women’s panties get wet from this type of power. Now, on the flipside, if women have power over men in terms of salaries and such, they are instantly seen as masculine and unattractive. Men want submissive, feminine women.

        24. okay here goes: DO YOU KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THE MIDDLE EAST?
          How the hell do you propose that situation come about, with everyone accepting it?

        25. ““But she did get Xera to display his own hypocrisy.”
          Indeed. I think Xera and Bhabiji would make a cute couple, they are of the same emotional and intellectual level (even though both of them would kill than admit it).”
          Atheist Indian, you obviously missed my days-ago comment when someone inferred that Xera was Egyptian and I sprang too with “really? Egyptians are hot”.
          I dated Egyptians before, Muslims at that, so I’d have no problem dating Xera provided he was hot and filled a few other criteria. I’m not hypergamous, I can, and have, dated men I felt were “beneath” me in some way, either culturally, intellectually or otherwise. I’ll admit that looks is one area I’m not willing to compromise on, and do prefer dating men who are 7.5s at the least.
          Xera… pix?

        26. Ish,
          ‘Point is, I don’t see many highly successful men with women that look far worse than them. Men place more importance on aesthetics, while women place it more on dominating power. And computer whizzes are not known for their dominating social power.’
          Interesting point. So how do you define alpha male and where is the dividing line between alpha and beta?

        27. Hah I love it when Robert makes fun of Bhab. She doesn’t reply to him; he shoves her with a pole and she just takes it. If anyone else says anything, oh man, it’s a firestorm, filled with irrelevant love for black groove and hindi comments. oh and incest, can’t forget that.

        28. ..I mean I think you’re right that men’s main concern is physical attractiveness while for woman, status and power and confidence etc are a bigger part of the equation. I long ago noticed this.

        29. I, however, strongly oppose the assertion that Egyptian Muslims are inbreds. Even though cousin marriages are common in Middle Eastern Muslim societies, Egyptians are not too much into that trend. However, they aren’t without their ‘evils’, especially their cultural obsession with slicing women’s genitals.

        30. ‘Atheist Indian, you obviously missed my days-ago comment when someone inferred that Xera was Egyptian and I sprang too with “really? Egyptians are hot”.’
          that’s why I thought you were trolling him!
          If you only date 7.5s minimum, you better be hot! I’m coming, geopolitical naivete or not. (joking).

        31. @ Bhabiji
          I might have missed some of your comments, since most of them are the repetivitive tripes anyway. I have no doubt that like most desis, you tend to bottom feed when you go inter-racial. However, I don’t think Xera is ‘beneath you’. You’d still be hypergamous if you date Xera.

        32. ” So how do you define alpha male and where is the dividing line between alpha and beta?”
          That’s a very tough question, and it’s hard to give a good answer, but it’s some combination of the above. But many qualities are linked. Having a big income means the man is dominant socially and people are reliant on him – that’s attractive. Factors such as deep voice/square jaw help. It’s a multitude of different factors, many of which (including social dominance!) are largely genetic.
          Looks certainly help, but the absolute perfect greek god man with a ’10’ physique and is a stay at home dad or janitor is not alpha. He could also be standing in a club with a red cup bouncing his head alone in the music. Those guys. In fact, the woman that he’s with will just walk all over him, using him for sex alone, knowing that the man has no control or dominance over her. She’s better off sticking a cucumber in there.
          An alpha woman has looks of ’10’ alone, is suave in social situations, and doesn’t spread her legs to betas.
          Men, if they’re in lower economic stations, will do all they can to ‘up’ their position. Macho hobbies certainly help with this, or buying a super car or playing a sport. High school kids are all in their parents households, therefore the only things that will matter to them are: Can I get beer somehow, Do I play in a sport to gain social power, Do I own a car. As men grow out of that bubble of an environment, there are just so many different interpretations of what alpha means..
          There’s a lot more to add. Those are just my personal observations.

        33. And you did not “build the pyramids” other people did. Egypt at that time was a pre-Abrahamic civilization. Most Egyptians now are Abrahamics – Muslims, Christian, some Jews,
          Xera’s ancestors did build the pyramids. Changing one’s religion does not change ones race or genetics. Hindus are the only ones who believe this nonsense which is why Hindutva retards see Muslims and Christian indians as alien species. Robert did a piece on this. Todays Egyptians are the descendants of the those that constructed the old civilization.
          And on the question of reviving idol worship lets take a lesson from India, where Hindus bring vast sums of cash to their idol of choice hoping to get his attention. Temples like Somnath and Triputi have gathered tons of precious metals which lay dormant in the temple vaults while the beggars outside continue starving. This ”Abrahamic koolaid” preaches forgiveness of ones enemies, Charity and alms giving, and universal ethics. It celebrates humanity while Hinduism grades and dehumanizes living breathing souls. I’m sure the metaphysics of the Upanishads are highly developed compared to the bible, but I doubt the starving beggar down the street cares.
          Aakar Patel: In India God accepts cash from us, not good work, for which there is no reward. We don’t expect something from God in return for sweeping our neighbourhood streets. We go with money.
          Comparing the rot of Hinduism to the Abrahamic traditions is an obscenity of epic magnitude.

        34. Ishmael,
          You haven’t really come up with a clear definition but I applaud the fact that you think it involves social dominance. That’s what it means in zoology. It is about dominance and leadership as well as mating rights/privileges.
          I would call particular men alpha male types or maybe the alpha males in a certain group but I don’t take the alpha/beta/omega model very seriously as a way to categorize all males. As if a model based on relatively primitive mammals that live in small groups is really adequate to modern human society.

        35. ‘As if a model based on relatively primitive mammals that live in small groups is really adequate to modern human society.’
          Its almost as if this theory is masquerading as scientific when it is blatantly not.

        36. as if the power structures and dynamics in human society are as simple as in a troop of gorillas lol. Then do it by attractiveness and there’s no way to say where to draw the dividing lines. None that I can think of.

        37. “Hah I love it when Robert makes fun of Bhab. She doesn’t reply to him; he shoves her with a pole and she just takes it. If anyone else says anything, oh man, it’s a firestorm, filled with irrelevant love for black groove and hindi comments. oh and incest, can’t forget that.”
          Don’t know what Bobby Ji comment you’re referring to, this is a long thread and comments are not consecutive so I’m sure there’s a lot I’m missing, plus I don’t read all the comments anyway, but nowhere ever have I seen Bobby Ji “shove a pole” in me.
          Nevertheless, I made it clear to him on his photos thread what I thought of his looks, in a polite fashion, so no, no idolization of teh blog mazterz from moi.
          And I already told you Ishmael, the Indian language I used in comments to you the other day WAS NOT HINDI, you hindi-centric bigot.
          🙂

        38. AI, ” I have no doubt that like most desis, you tend to bottom feed when you go inter-racial.”
          Explain what you mean by “bottom feeding”
          “However, I don’t think Xera is ‘beneath you’. You’d still be hypergamous if you date Xera.”
          That would depend on his culture, religion, family background, lifestyle and behaviour.
          ISHMAEL, you say you used “Dravidian” to indicated darker skinned Indians in general, and I’m saying for the umpteenth time IT IS WRONG!!!!!!!!!!
          I gave a link to a current political map of India yesterday. Go find it and get back to me.

    2. @ Ishmael
      Bengali looks are actually ad-continuoum, from light skinned Caucasiod appearance to dark skinned Dravidian appearances. A trip to Bengal, Bangladesh or the world’s largest hub of Bangladesh mass immigration – Assam, would make that pretty clear.
       
      While strongly disagree that Egypt should be run by Jews she does have some good arguments. Despite Xera’s continuous chest thumping about his ‘civilisation’ in a style reminscent of Hindutva fanaticism, the Pharoanic civilisation has as much to do with today’s Egyptians as the Indus valley civilisation has to do with Hindutvas of today. The best case on point would be the present day Egypt’s impoverished position in the global economic map, as well as their inability to form stable democratic governments AND their lack of military pull (In the last 65 years, Egypt encountered a number of humiliating defeats by the Israeli military, even though Egypt allied with close to a dozen of Middle Eastern countries to fight Israel.).

      1. Thanks for correcting me regarding Bengalis. I was wrong on that.
        But him ‘marrying up’ to Joan because she’s white is crazy talk. That was mainly the point I was trying to make.

        1. “Thanks for correcting me regarding Bengalis. I was wrong on that.”
          The same mistake that you and Xera make wrt Bengalis applies to your mistakes about the rest of Indians. If you ever go there you will see the full gamut of brown hues from light to dark across the entire country and across all the castes. Your whole SouthIndian=Dark=Dravidian=Dalit clusterfuck is wrong wrong wrong.
          “But him ‘marrying up’ to Joan because she’s white is crazy talk. ”
          I never said that. Depending on the type of family background and sub-culture he was raised in, he could very well be the one marrying down, afterall, some Desis see the behaviour and lack of discipline amongst Western people and think they are sub-human at best.
          The point was, the union is not hypergamous. He is not better looking nor more famous than her.

        2. I mentioned dravidian as a blanket term for darker skinned indians. It’s true they’re not all the same color, but, like this Bengali comment, wasn’t really my point. I overgeneralized to prove a difference in skin color.
          But, that guy is a great example on a man’s and woman’s priorities are in relationships. The man is not god awful ugly, but if Joan was with a man’s mentality, she would be dating Thor.

        3. My comments are getting placed in different places for some reason so again to sheltered, coddled, privileged New England ISHMAEL..
          “Hah I love it when Robert makes fun of Bhab. She doesn’t reply to him; he shoves her with a pole and she just takes it. If anyone else says anything, oh man, it’s a firestorm, filled with irrelevant love for black groove and hindi comments. oh and incest, can’t forget that.”
          Don’t know what Bobby Ji comment you’re referring to, this is a long thread and comments are not consecutive so I’m sure there’s a lot I’m missing, plus I don’t read all the comments anyway, but nowhere ever have I seen Bobby Ji “shove a pole” in me.
          Nevertheless, I made it clear to him on his photos thread what I thought of his looks, in a polite fashion, so no, no idolization of teh blog mazterz from moi.
          And I already told you Ishmael, the Indian language I used in comments to you the other day WAS NOT HINDI, you hindi-centric bigot.
          🙂

      2. AI, ” I have no doubt that like most desis, you tend to bottom feed when you go inter-racial.”
        Explain what you mean by “bottom feeding”
        “However, I don’t think Xera is ‘beneath you’. You’d still be hypergamous if you date Xera.”
        That would depend on his culture, religion, family background, lifestyle and behaviour.

  7. ‘Promiscuity in women so many times seems to damage the woman at some base core. It seems to almost damage their souls. I don’t know why that is, but maybe women were just not meant to live that way.’
    I think that is quite astute. It is perhaps related to evolution.
    If you assume the purpose of an organism is to propagate its genes, men and woman have to go about that in different ways.
    Men can potentially impregnate hundreds of woman in a year. Woman can only get pregnant once a year.
    This means the best strategy for each is different. A woman must be picky and find the strongest possible male (and also get him to protect her and the offspring). A man’s best strategy is to impregnate as many woman as possible and no need to be too picky.
    Arguably woman are therefore psychologically more suited to having less partners and more meaningful relationships. Men can have sex with a lot of partners without emotional attachment.
    Alternatively, a cultural explanation would be that there is much more social stigma for promiscuous woman and therefore doing it affects their self esteem.

    1. You’re right. 100%.
      The cultural stigma for promiscuous women is gone now.
      So – birth control has to be banned and abortion made illegal for unmarried couples. No questions. If you want to go extreme, ban 50/50 divorce settlements and make new adultery laws, but that’s pushing it.
      I’m an economic leftist, but these social issues must be curbed down for the betterment of society.

      1. There is still social stigma for promiscuous woman. Really insulting derogatory terms like ‘slag’ and ‘slut’ are common in England for promiscuous woman. Teenage girls and young woman label their female peers like this as much as men do.
        You yourself have repeatedly made this point when you say woman lose value to men when they sleep around or whatever.

        1. “There is still social stigma for promiscuous woman”
          Women are called sluts if they over do the mating with beta males. And the women that call girls sluts are either A: fat/ugly & jealous or B: alpha girls that torment beta females for being loose.
          A ’10’ girl will not be an alpha if she sleeps with betas.

        2. Ishmael,
          girls are called sluts if they over do the mating full stop, even if it is with the coolest, best looking, toughest guys. And any girl that does this could be called a slut. An alpha girl could get called a slut by a rival alpha girl, for example.
          When I was a teenager, not all that long ago, loose girls would commonly be insulted in this way. I’m talking about teenagers here. And you know i’m in the UK, right? Might not be the same.
          The social stigma for promiscuous adult woman is much reduced but negative ideas about loose woman are widely known and loose woman must be aware of them themselves.

        3. ..not that ‘cool’ and ‘popular’ are significant concepts with teenagers in here Liverpool. I’m Americanizing what I say. I find myself doing that on the internet.

        4. You’re right, but a woman is not alpha if she’s a slut, plain and simple. That is why a rival ‘alpha’ will use slut as an insult to another ‘alpha’. An alpha woman doles out her goodies to a select few.

        5. ‘You’re right, but a woman is not alpha if she’s a slut, plain and simple. That is why a rival ‘alpha’ will use slut as an insult to another ‘alpha’. An alpha woman doles out her goodies to a select few.’
          So what you are saying is that promiscuous woman do have a lower status/value in society. So it could affect a woman’s feeling of self-worth.

          1. “Momma’s baby; Daddy’s maybe.” A woman knows who her children are; a man does not, so he wants a faithful woman. We haven’t had paternity tests for very long, and a situation where you need a test? That’s undeniably messed up. This aspect of the double-standard is really hard-wired.

    2. ” Men can have sex with a lot of partners without emotional attachment.”
      Some men can, as can some women. They both would most likely high testosterone people with high libidos.

      1. Women are biologically not designed to have many partners. Period.
        But they’re going against biology using _____ and _____. Beating on a dead horse here.

        1. Ishmael
          I think you are right. I did read a study somewhere that stated that promiscuity erodes away a woman’s ability to bond with her mate in a monogamous relationship.

        2. “I think you are right. I did read a study somewhere that stated that promiscuity erodes away a woman’s ability to bond with her mate in a monogamous relationship.”
          It does the same for men. Hooking Up Smart has discussed those studies ad infinitum.

      2. ‘Some men can, as can some women. They both would most likely high testosterone people with high libidos.’
        There are a obviously a lot of woman who have sex with men without emotional attachment. Some of them may be fine with it. I think it is less of problem for men generally though.

    3. The double-standard has a lot to do with biology. Pregnancy is more of a burden on the woman, even if she aborts and even when you consider child support payments. Women are more at risk of venereal disease, HIV, etc. due to the differences in our physiology. Also women are more at risk if they hook up with someone who turns out to be violent, due to being smaller and weaker. It’s incredibly foolish for women not to be choosy, whether or not we’re culturally “liberated.”

      1. ” It’s incredibly foolish for women not to be choosy”
        Many women I know are not choosy enough and in fact date and marry down, bu large margins.
        Really, its never been a better time for loser dudes.

        1. Especially when you compare our time to when you had to get her Dad’s approval to date/marry her. Seriously, guys complain about how choosy women are, but compared to the old days….?
          You wanted sexual liberation, you got it!
          Bob–you call yourself a “sexual libertine,” yet you seem to be complaining that women have the right to choose their partners. Isn’t this what you want? For everyone to have the right to choose?

        2. “Of course women should have the right to pick their partners, husbands, etc. They already have forever in the West anyway….” Depends what you mean by “forever.” Arranged marriages still commonly took place in parts of the US (esp. the South) less than 200 years ago. More recently, to date or court most women you had to have the parents’ permission, even if they weren’t underage. It’s only relatively recently that it was acceptable for single women to live independently. Even now the tradition of asking a woman’s father for her hand in marriage is commonly observed, even though his permission is no longer necessary.
          My point here is that men complain about how choosy women are nowadays, but remember that your granddad had to face their parents! Wouldn’t you rather have it this way?
          But whether it’s the women themselves or their parents who are the sexual gatekeepers, some men (and women) have always missed out. Life is not fair.
          “But women completely unleashed from all societal restrictions will more or less turn into cavewomen and make horrifically bad choices, the result being a sexual dystopia that looks like some sort of a jungle.” Doesn’t that go for a subset of both genders? Equal opportunity also means equal opportunity to misbehave. What societal restrictions would you bring back? Should we go back to the Victorian-era double-standard? Condemn the promiscuous women, wink at the promiscuous men?
          Although I tend to take a live and let live attitude toward most people, I believe sexual dystopia is the natural outcome of sexual libertinism. It’s inevitably degrading to both sexes. Both men and women end up taken advantage of by the more selfish members of our respective genders, both inside and outside of marriage. Children end up getting hurt.
          But as you said, genie’s out of the bottle.

        3. I don’t think anyone among the silent majority denies that there are fundamental differences between men and women.

        4. What bugs me about the MRM is they refuse to recognize the limitations of men. and by doing so, they shun the weakest element of men who are most desperate for their support.

        5. Amy
          It’s always assumed males are superior in every regard. They rarely admit that males are over represented on both ends of the spectrum. I don’t mind if they rant about how any successful woman that makes headlines has been a product of affirmative action, because that makes them look less credible.

          But they always claim that problems that affect males disproportionately have are a product of feminism or simply a figment of the feminist imagination. And weak and dumb males always get the short end of the stick, but in order to protect them, you have to take their background into account.
          They’re also pretty incoherent, to the point of being unproductive.

        6. Lindsay has said that he would accept weaker or less intelligent males over females so that makes him good in my book.

        7. The men on the low end of the “Bell Curve,” not the non-functioning ones but the functioning-yet-below-average, have been screwed by the changes in the job market more than anyone. Which naturally kills their dating prospects. I think a lot of women would be happy with a guy who is kind of a lunkhead but nonetheless a good-hearted guy with a decent job.

    4. “If you only date 7.5s minimum, you better be hot!”
      Why?
      ” I’m coming, geopolitical naivete or not. (joking).”
      Coming?!
      As far as the gp naivete, believe me, I’ve been to most of the countries we’ve talked about on here and I’m not a believer in cultural relativity.
      By the way, is this Steve Jaan from UK? If so didn’t your moniker used to be Steve, not Steven?
      Post your pic as well.
      😉

  8. A couple of years ago I got a hold of one of those voice changers. I decided to try a few phone calls as a woman, just to see what it might be like. I didn’t expect to be surprised, but I was. Men were either “yes ma’am/no ma’am” types, or they were just generally being very nice to me. Wow… women have it easy!

    1. “yes ma’am/no ma’am”
      What state you live in? I usually go with the ma’am thing on older women or during instances where extreme formality is required. When I go down to the Carolinas, I always have old/young people call me ‘Yes Sir’, even if I’m buying groceries. I like good Southern hospitality – it’s classy.

  9. Steve Jaan, “Why you better be hot? Because I think only someone at the higher end herself is in a position to have such high standards.”
    Nonsense. A person can be fat but that doesn’t mean they want to date a fat person. A person can be ugly but that doesn’t mean they’ll want to date an ugly person. That being said, although I consider myself average looking, I do get compliments frequently and have never dated below 7.5, so I guess men do consider me hot looking. Not that it matters. I’d still have my 7.5 bench mark even if I was a 2. To borrow from the m-sphere, “attraction is not a choice” 😉
    Now, about that photo………

    1. You are a mallu aren’t you? The coolest Indian chick I know is one. You are an abomination. Somebody needs to blowtorch your ass and seal the crack forever.

      1. “If you were a 2 who wanted a 7.5, you’d struggle to get one and have to lower your standards.”
        I am not sure to what extent that plays out in real life. Standards are hard to judge, as it is. I have seen for example, ageing Anglo women dating Turkish or Indian men who would normally be above their league, if there were no ‘exotic’ factor involved. I have also known an Indian woman, who is quite ugly by Indian standards, date a Canadian expat in Delhi who is several leagues above her.
         
        In my opinion, women gain a couple of points if they go inter-racial, particularly if they are not too attractive within their own race and are considered ‘exotic’ in the race of men they are bargain shopping into.

  10. Where do you usually meet women? Bars? Social circle?
    What does your game consist of? What do you talk about with women that gets them attracted to you?

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