Chronology of the Recent Bigfoot Shooting Story

I know most of the players in this story, and I believe that it is true. At least the shooting part. Here is what happened.

1. The shooter shows up on and starts a thread saying I just shot 2 Bigfoots, now what do I do? The shooter is well known on the site and is a frequent contributor.

2. Thread quickly spins out of control going to 60 pages. The story is revealed on the thread.

3. Mods get messages that shooter is being harassed and threatened by people as a result of the thread, apparently mad that he killed two BF’s.

4. Thread is shut down.

5. A man named “Bear Hunter” from gets involved, calls up the shooter and questions him at length. The story outline results:

The 25 year old shooter, a transplanted Texan who left Texas nine years ago, was a passenger in a truck near the Dixie Mountain Game Refuge on the Plumas National Forest west of Frenchman Lake in the Sierra Nevada on the border of California and Nevada. It was mid-November 2010, and they were bear hunting. There was already snow on the ground. They hoped to find a bear just before it went into hibernation.

They came around a bend, and there was a dirty white female Bigfoot in the road 80 yards away. The shooter grabbed his 25.06 rifle and jumped out of his vehicle. As he jumped out, the Bigfoot started running towards him waving her arms. When the Bigfoot saw the gun, she turned as if to start to run away. The shooter’s companion yelled, “Don’t shoot! It’s a man in a monkey suit!” But he shot anyway. The shooter shot her in the side of the chest, and the bullet penetrated her lungs.

The shooter says he shot her because he thought she was a bear, but that’s not true. He knew what she was. The reason he shot her is because he thought she was threatening him.

She went down, then got to her feet. She ran off, sometimes on two legs and sometimes on four. After a while, she crashed off into the brush and died.

The men went to go look for the female Bigfoot. Suddenly two small, strange creatures appeared, sometimes on two legs, sometimes in four. They looked like a cross between a bear and a gorilla. The creatures had very large heads. They were on either side of the hunters, communicating back and forth.

The shooter raised his gun, fired and shot one of the creatures dead. The other small creature apparently escaped. As the shooter cradled the dying creature in his arms, both men realized that it was a young creature of the same type the shooter had just shot. At this point, they figured out that he had killed two Bigfoots. The juvenile Bigfoot died in his arms.

The shooter says he shot the young Bigfoot because it was threatening him. This is not true. He just shot it for some unknown reason.

The other man with the shooter was so hysterical and upset about the shootings at this point that he took the shooter’s gun away from him and pointed it at him, threatening him. He told the shooter that if he tried to shoot another one of those animals, he would shoot the shooter instead.

The story is that they both were so upset by that point that they left the area. The shooter said that they left the animals in the field and that he was not going back to the area until next fall.

The basic outline of the story is uncontroversial and is acknowledged by everyone who believes the story. The only differences are about the motivations of the shooter and what was or was not left behind.

6. Bear Hunter puts the shooter in contact with the Olympic Project (OP) in Washington State. The OP says, “We’re just trying to keep the shooter out of jail!” The shooter is very frightened of going to jail over the killing of the two Bigfoots. At this point, the story seems to die.

7. Suddenly Bear Hunter realizes that the shooter is deeply involved in the OP. This seems odd. Why is a guy who just shot two Bigfoots suddenly a major part of this organization?

8. Mysteriously, the OP appears on various Bigfoot forums, bragging that they have enough Bigfoot DNA samples to last for years. Bear Hunter regards this as curious and suspects that the shooter may have harvested one or both of the killed Bigfoots or parts of them and is keeping them on ice somewhere and giving the OP access to them.

9. Bizarrely, someone in California, apparently the shooter, submits a very strange sample to Melba Ketchum’s Bigfoot DNA project. It resembles a large slice off the thigh of a human cadaver, except that it is very hairy. The slice is about seven inches long by four inches wide by two-three inches deep – it’s a Bigfoot steak. The color of the hair is the same color as that of the killed mother Bigfoot. It appears to have been carved off of a body with a knife or some sort of a tool.

Dr. Ketchum freaks out because she thinks she is in possession of tissue sliced off a dead Bigfoot. She is worried that police will raid her lab to take away the sample and everything else she has, because that’s what the government does with Bigfoot evidence. She tries to get others to hold it for her instead. The others decline to take it off her hands.

11. The Bigfoot steak tests out as “no known mammal.” However, the DNA (probably MtDNA) tests as “human.” Nevertheless, according to a recent radio show, two men associated with Ketchum’s DNA project implied that the Bigfoot steak tested out as coming from a Bigfoot by DNA.

12. I break the story.

13. Pandemonium ensues.

14. The OP appears on forums, agreeing with the basics of the story: that the two Bigfoots were shot in the time and place where they were killed. They differ on the motivations of the shooter and certain other relatively non-important things.

They also reveal that the shooter went back to the site two weeks later, dug through the snow and found a nice chunk of the dead Bigfoot mother. Someone, apparently the shooter, sent the Bigfoot steak to Ketchum’s lab from California.


Adrian Erickson, Melba Ketchum, the Olympic Project, Bear Hunter and the shooter all think that the Bigfoot shooting story is true in its basic facts. They also agree that a chunk of one dead Bigfoot was sent to Ketchum’s lab.

Adrian Erickson, Richard Stubstad and Ketchum agree that Ketchum freaked out when she got the sample because she thought it was from a Bigfoot, and she thought the authorities would raid her lab to seize the Bigfoot steak and the rest of her samples, since this what they do with Bigfoot evidence.

People associated with agree that the long thread existed until it was shut down.

Possibility of a hoax: The general conclusion on the Net is that the story itself is fake.

Let us look at that possibility.

We know that the thread is real.

What if the shooter just made up the whole story? It’s possible, but I do not think he made up this story. His character is open to debate, but he’s not a faker or a hoaxer. On the other hand, some say that he is a very unreliable person and that at one point at least, he did not believe in Bigfoot. So it’s conceivable he made up the story as a gag, since that is what non-believers do.

What if the OP is making up the story? They don’t make stuff up. They are good researchers with excellent integrity. They don’t hoax. However, it is possible that they were hoaxed by the shooter, although I don’t believe that this happened.

The hunk of flesh adds credibility to the story. The OP says it’s a chunk of Bigfoot flesh from one the killed Bigfoots. Could it have been hoaxed? Possibly.

However, someone would have had to have had access to a human cadaver and then sawed off a chunk of the thigh. How likely is that? Further, this would have had to have been a very strange human cadaver, one covered with hair. And the hair would have had to have been the exact same color of the hair of one of the Bigfoots that got shot. How likely is that? In addition, two men made statements on a radio show implying that the Bigfoot steak tested out as coming from a Bigfoot by DNA.

Conclusion: As you can see, there is a great deal about this incident that seems to point away from a hoax or a lie. In fact, I believe it is neither, and I believe the basis for the story is true.

The two Bigfoots were indeed shot dead in California in November. At least one piece from one of the Bigfoots was sent in by the OP to Ketchum’s DNA lab for testing. The director thought that it was a slice of a killed Bigfoot, and she requested others take it off her hands in case the police raid the lab and seize the sample as they tend to do with Bigfoot evidence.

There you have it.

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67 thoughts on “Chronology of the Recent Bigfoot Shooting Story”

  1. Nothing has been documented. All is hearsay. The hearsay has been denied by the only identified parties with a direct basis of knowledge (OP and Ketchum.) Surer things have not panned out in the history of the sasquatch phenomenon.

    1. No it has not been denied.

      The OP agrees that with the shooting story except for some minor details. The OP also agrees that they sent a slab or purported BF flesh to Ketchum’s lab.

      Sources inside Ketchum’s project told me that she freaked out when she got the sample because she thought it was human. Ketchum has also heard the shooting story, because she is the one who told it to a friend of mine who is deep in all of these projects. She apparently thought it was true. Ketchum has not denied these things.

      1. if you have a squatch, why not just produce it, BAM proof positive squatch existance issue over . The whole going to jail issue is not a factor. I am not a skeptic I know they are there. but some of the sludge that seeps to the surface is very unnerving to say the least. Keep it real and be patient.

    1. Robert Lindsay, please delete this string, please. And ban that IP address from ever posting here ever again.

      And we all wonder why these animals are so afraid of us humans.
      I cannot believe that so-called people still walk among us today, calling themselves humans, and expect to be treated with human compassion when they go around getting off by human on human violence of this magnitude.

      This persons parents failed miserably!
      I wouldn’t be surprised if his father was also his brother.
      Being a human is alot more than just looking like one.
      And if that is the case? Then this person failed miserably as well.
      Just showing this type of inhumane video should be a crime against humanity! And punishable as such.

      Lindsay, please get that off of this blog.

      1. Do shut up, my dear Victor. You’ve made nothing better in this situation with your predictable and childish insults.
        Scared animals? Products of incest? You have absolutely no clue who that person (“hoff2”) is. Neither do I, but you’ve taken an extremely small bit of information and have indiscriminately and with much arrogance publically sentenced someone you have never even met.
        What if “hoff2” was just a little kid? Maybe your kid. Maybe mine. You showed such hatred! Your words were poisonous
        What if “hoff2” is black (African-American)? Everybody knows that it’s no big deal at all for a black person to use the “n-word.” What if this person posted the link to your stupid bigfoot site completely by mistake?
        And just because someone is an idiot and a bigot doesn’t give you the right to publically insult them. Never has and never will. Take the high road. Hate the sin. Love the sinner.
        And good luck.

  2. I’ve had some thoughts over a delicious helping of ramen noodles.
    I care little for the egos of the “players” in this debacle, about NDA’s … and whatever else that isn’t worth remembering, about who has leverage over who ethically. I’ve read every comment here since your, Lindsay’s, “breaking” of the story – here and at Cryptomundo, and some at bigfootforums … the only thing from it all that I’m emotionally invested in are the Bigfoot shootings, because of how reprehensible it is, and because I care – I care about these, comparatively, close relatives of ours.
    I don’t know for sure, but after some initial doubt due to shock and the dramatic nature of the incident, I’ve come to believe that the story is true. It’s more what reason do I have for not believing it’s true? Your, Lindsay’s, source, bear hunter as you call him, was collaborated by Derek Randles. To me, doing so to draw attention to the OP is not plausible. I see orgs like the OP as wanting to be taken seriously and respected as a scientific research team. I also don’t see others affiliated with the OP denying the story. As much as I would like to believe the story is not true, I have the sinking displeasure that it is (true). The question is, does the OP want to continue to be an accessory after the fact (which is a legal term) to a person and incident that, if not criminal, is guilty of moral wrongdoing. This controversy undermines and distracts from its objective: a noble effort, for the benefit of humanity, to bring Sasquatch into the light of anthropology.
    It’s ironic that the search for Sasquatch has driven apart its scientific pioneers.

  3. As I have predicted the killing starts, then the science will need more bodies, then museums, then Zoo’s and finally after being on top of the extinct list some brainiac thinks captive breeding is the cure… LOL With “Eventual Release” after human’s re-teach them how to act as a real Sasquatch… But that will not happen because the Orient will put a bounty on their penises for virility purposes and of course there are those ready to cash in on that….

    Never happen… LOL It has been going on for the last 100 years…

  4. Ptangier
    Killing of wild mammals is agianst the law,period according to Ca. DFG regulations. This incident should be looked into. Also I do not believe for one second that the shooter didn’t know it was a Bigfoot; bears don’t come running to you waving their arms. No matter HOW the story is played out, the only real proof about this whole mess is the study that Mrs. Ketchum is involved in; and she IS credable. all in all, TSasquatch needs to be left alone as a wild and endangered species, whatever the final classification will turn out to be, the creatures have lived in the forests for years without our help and the only true help they need is to not be disturbed. If any thing a Sasquatch Billof Rights needs to be adopted and circulated to all hunting enthusiasts and liciece holders.

    1. I totally agree with you but with one huge point that needs to be pounded into the heads of the powers that write this up… “Protect the species but do not take any public or private land in this endeavor”… sasquatch can no more be protected with cages wall or false borders, they obviously don’t know to stay in so why keep people out of an area… They are a docile species when left to themselves, and make any harm or harassment a Federal Offense with very stiff penalties…

  5. I have a relative who guides hunts in northern Nevada. I asked him if he had heard about this story. He checked with Nevada Division of Wildlife and that agency claims these were bears. Has anyone thought to ask that agency about this?

  6. Hello—Richard Stubstad here again.

    Although this chain starts with a rehashing of the “Bigfoot Shooting Story”, I would now like to re-start a DNA conversation, entirely separate from the shooting story (which is still just a story, mind you!).

    FYI, this will be the only forum I will communicate within, at least for the time being. I feel that Robert Lindsay keeps a pretty good handle on “the nasties” here, regardless of their points of view. For example, on a number of issues I don’t agree with Robert. Obviously on these same issues, he doesn’t agree with me either. But that doesn’t make us adversaries or unfriendly or unprofessional. It merely means we have two different points of view on the same topic. Fair enough … let’s catalyze the discussion in the hopes of, eventually, proving (or not) that the sasquai exist as a living, breathing extant hominid of some etiology or another, to us still unknown, at least here in North America. Personally I’m some 97% sure of this conclusion for reasons I have elucidated in various forums previously, while I understand from Robert that he is “99.9%” sure.

    Assuming Robert and I are right about our general respective hunches, we both believe the first step is to establish, scientifically, that our respective hunches that THE SASQUAI EXIST are 100% true, and that we (and others) can prove THIS to the world, hopefully sooner than later.

    After the proof is forthcoming, the next step would be for all of us to lobby our government—absolutely and without hesitation—to PROTECT these creatures; whatever it takes and regardless of the political and “big business” fallout that will invariably ensue. I’m afraid, my good friends, that this step will not be as easy as it sounds. To achieve this, we will probably need the help of several environmental groups, such as the Sierra Club, Greenpeace, Audubon, and (especially) the NRDC—the Natural Resources Defense Council.

    Finally, the goal will probably be to increase the available wild habitat for these creatures—a move that may in fact help other creatures that find themselves lower down the evolutionary tree, such as the grizzly bear, the wolverine, and even the spotted owl, etc.

    Having said all of the above, my next effort will be to return to something I understand—not completely but fairly well—the mitochondrial DNA testing I participated in, on equal footing with Dr. Ketchum, and am no longer involved with for a variety of reasons. My distinct sense now is that I got myself sucked up into the “sasquatch- or sasquai-kill” debate, whether as a distraction disguised as a diversion or a diversion disguised as a distraction. Either way, I know nothing first-hand about these purported “Sierra kills”, one way or the other. I wasn’t there and, so far, I haven’t seen a single speck of evidence close up and personal, other than what OTHERS have said to me or to one another. The next time I visit the area (where one of my kids lives), I will though take the initiative to go one step further than at least “Derekfoot” by his own admission has taken—I will drive through the purported kill area, just to get a sense of the habitat if nothing else. For now, I am personally 70-30, based on zero evidence admittedly, AGAINST the possibility that the Sierra kill actually occurred. Obviously I can’t know for sure, any more than I can know for sure that the Patterson-Gimlin creature called “Patty” was the real deal or a man in a suit. That’s as far as I can go with this “Sierra kill” situation, so now it’s BACK TO BUSINESS AS USUAL.

    Even Dr. Ketchum will readily admit that a single specimen, or even an entire body, will NOT prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that a viable number of sasquai actually exist in the widespread forests of North America. After we tested the entire mitochondrial genome of the first specimen (from the Southwest) mentioned on my Website:, Dr. K and I were both even less convinced than when we started testing that THIS SPECIMEN WAS QUITE POSSIBLY NOT FROM A SASQUATCH. This is because it tested 100% Homo sapiens—on the mitochondrial side.

    Still, I and several others initially involved continued to encouraged Dr. K to continue DNA testing, starting with the second specimen, obviously called “Sample 2”, from a different source AND location in the Northeast. Much to Dr. K’s initial but short-lived dismay, this specimen also came back 100% Homo sapiens. However at that time I began doing the one thing I know how to do quite well in this regard—analyze these two complete mitochondrial sequences statistically and CONNECT THE DOTS. My conclusion: It is not only probable that the sasquai actually exist, but also that the first two samples indicate at least a partial sasquatch origin from a later stone age Homo sapiens female or female kin—at least at some point in the relatively distant past—on the maternal side of the sasquatch “family” as it were.

    Keep in mind, ladies and gentlemen, that there were only TWO specimens—still FAR from adequate to establish any conclusive etiology of the so-called sasquai “species”. For that, BOTH additional specimens and nuclear DNA testing were sorely needed. In fact, these phases of the DNA testing program began shortly thereafter, but nevertheless before I left the project for good.

    My next public release will first be posted in my own website,, where I will explain how my statistical analyses were carried out and where the “97% certain” conclusion came from in more detail. However I first have to re-write this pre-existing article, because what I now have tucked away on my hard drive also includes the mention of several polymorphic mitochondrial DNA sites (or “mutations” to use a Darwinian term), and since Dr. Ketchum in fact was the person who sent these two specimens to a third-party lab for sequencing (paid for both by me and others), I still would like to see Dr. K, not me, report on the specific polymorphic sites on a wider statistical basis than those associated with the first two samples alone. So I’m going to leave these details for Dr. K’s project to report on without my involvement—SO PLEASE DON’T ASK ME FOR THE ACTUAL SEQUENCING DATA! You will NOT get to see it here; sorry.

    Ladies and gentlemen, you will find out in due time when this article has been posted on my website. Stay tuned!

    All the best,
    Richard Stubstad

    1. I just wanted to ask what the going rate for Bigfoot meat and fur pelts is. Perhaps we could ensure the continuance of this species by raising their reproductive rates, introducing them into controlled habitats and promoting some profiteering through commercial raising and slaughter. Depending on the intelligence and dexterity of the sasquatch, we could even train them to serve us in the same manner as we do a Dog or pet monkey. This animal could prove to be a great asset to the human race.

      1. Your’e joking right because if your not, you are a real IDIOT. You want to slaughter a creature that is most like man, who Is highly intelligent; probably more so than some humans, yourself included, or turn them into a pet. Please!!!

        1. You need to read my comment Tim…I am suggesting we assist this animal in procreation…Increasing their population, and then exploiting them for our own twisted agenda…Isn’t that what we do with most animals and people?…Isn’t that our true nature?..According to history it is…and history repeats due to the fact the we have not evolved and i doubt that we soon will…You may have a more optimistic or romantic idea about our species…I am a realist..

  7. If all of this is true, as listed above, instead of ‘freaking out’, Dr. Ketchum needs to contact the local authorities and let them investigate the origin(s) of the tissue.

    Personally, this is the one piece of the ‘story’ that does not fit – a ‘trustworthy’ doctor who, upon discovery of samples that resemble tissue of a dubious nature, ‘freaks out’ and asks others to hold it – then proceeds to analyze it anyway, with the results showing ‘human’ – just doesn’t add up to me.

    I would expect the local police and FBI to be all over this within days of the sample being sent.

    Sounds like the makings of a viral campaign to me.

  8. Ya know the more I think of this whole affair, the more it starts to stink… I have been duped before and the “spidey sense” that i am getting is this will inflate emotions like a big balloon, and then “Pop”…

    No news coverage, secret meetings, phone calls and the he said she said is now getting to the boiling point, yet nothing… Seems to me you pay a lab for results and opinions, where are the official results/reports…???

    The BF community has taken enough of the Hoaxes and the supposed masterminds behind them… We have to watch MM inflate his ego on TV, all the while real field researchers just shake our heads and try to avoid the questions his foolery has caused to the research community…

    What I am saying is SH*t or get off the pot and let the rest of us get on with our work…

    1. I could not agree more with what Steven is saying here. Well stated . I also agree on the MM Tv series. It makes every BIgfoot researcher look bad, and insults our intelligence. I just hope that this story is a hoax as the killing of two of these magnificent creatures would be a crime in every sense of the word.

  9. If its true, it’s really sad. But if this happened to me, the first thing I think I would do, is call the forest service, not post it online and secretly take tissue samples. Even if it would make me hated, I dont see how you could go to jail for shooting a creature most people don’t believe exists. A doctor thinking its human tissue, not calling the cops is weird to me too. that is illegal. I dont know. I live close by, Ill be going snowmobiling more often, I’ve always wanted to see one of these creatures.

  10. I want to believe that bigfoot exists, but this story, like everything else that comes to light about bigfoot, is just another unsubstantiated story. I will not be 100% sure they exist until I see one myself, or someone else captures or kills one and puts it on public display.
    Logic, based on the volume of reported sightings and “evidence” tells me they exist, but I also know that many people throughtout history have believed elves, fairies, and the like have existed. Does sasquatch fit into their category? If sasquatch is real, than what exactly is it?

    For me the most troubling aspect is where are the dead ones? In the centuries that man has lived in North America, he has hunted and killed every known species of mammal by the thousands. Why is bigfoot different? I have not yet heard a true beliver explain that.

    1. There were killed quite a few times before 1968, and they were just buried in some way or another. Sometimes they were displayed. No one knew what they were. People thought they had killed a “wild man” or “hairy man.” One skeleton was turned in to a university in Louisiana but they had no idea what it was. Skulls have been turned in, but no one knows what to make of them, or they get labeled “Indians,” and stashed away somewhere.

      After 1968, a state conspiracy unfolds, and all BF bodies are whisked away by state authorities, often uniformed soldiers or men dressed in all black. They are usually taken away in black vans or black helicopters (military intelligence).

      1. The old MIB again! I am reading Nick Redfern’s book about Men In Black. I just have a hard time with a government cover up. That just doesn’t make much sense. I saw a BF displayed about 1970-73. I assumed it was a fake, but I enjoyed it. All the stories about buried, left behind, given away, taken away, etc. bodies, just seem like tales.

        1. I agree with Lance.
          There is no reason the government would cover it up anyway, that’s ridiculous. It’s not like bigfoot is threatening our society. There is no reason to believe that “skulls have been turned in and nobody knows what to do with them”. Historically, the few skulls found that don’t match human species get studied upside down and sideways and published to determine what they are and what relationship they play in our evolution. Even the fairly recently found “Kennewick” man was studied and published and this was a known human. Every time a “new species” is uncovered or even a relative of an existing one it gets recorded and news comes out about it. The cover up theory holds no weight. Every story is hearsay with no evidence. Do you folks really believe that if some solid evidence came out for the existence of big foot that the news media wouldn’t be all over it? Good lord people, come back to reality. Human’s have vivid imaginations, are very gullible, and love to believe in magic. I too would love to believe Big Foot exists. Many of these posts reflect that wonderful imagination. We don’t need pictures or videos, we need some solid physical evidence. Trust me, if someone comes up with any real evidence the media coverage will be so extensive that there will be no doubt as to the existence of the evidence. In the mean time, we’re all just satisfying our desire for something more than what we see.

  11. I personally don’t think that Bigfoot is an ape. I’ve been thinking lately that maybe Bigfoot is some sort of secret project the govt. has going on with aliens. I know this seems far fetched, but I saw a Bigfoot on my parents’ property in Pennsylvania in the late 80’s. The Bigfoot I saw had glowing red eyes. I saw it up close and at dusk. That would explain the govt. involvement in some kind of cover up. Maybe some kind of top secret super soldier ??? I don’t know,…but I do know for a fact that they do exist!

      1. I also saw a sasquatch on the west coast of Vancouver Island, British Columbia, and I believed I was stalked by it. This was back in the late 80’s. Certain details about the siting and later events that happened are nebulous. An interesting thing I later found out was the coastal rock promentory where the siting took place was called in the local native tongue ‘sasquatch point’ and a local took me to a spot there where a sasquatch totem pole was erected by the natives. Also in the 1800’s chinese had run gold mines out in the mountains of W Vancouver Island, and local lore has it they were run off by sasquatches.

    1. Hey nathan. I agree. I grew up being told of a time my family went camping up in the woods in a large group. My mother , father grandparents and uncles and aunt. They always went to the same spot every year. They get there and they see a pink foam all over the area they where at . Small amounts spread out .. They didnt know what to make of it. The dog upon arrival wouldnt get out of the trailer and was very scared which was not like him. By this time tents are up and its getting dark. My uncle and granpa are getting wood. My uncle see’s two glowing green eyes following him just on the other side of a barbed wire fence . He backed up as he did this he said the “bigfoot” came towards him easily stepping over the fence he runs back to camp frantic. By this tim my granfather also see’s glowing eyes , not reflecting but glowing and a very large figure and he to runs back to camp. Tells my father to get the guns. All three of my uncles have rifles and my graps a pistol. They tel my mom ,aunt and grandmother to throw everything in the camper and lets go. They dont even take down the tents they just wad them up and throw eveything in the camper… This is where it gets really wierd . A group of four men in camo walk right through the camp. Keep in mind mind everyone is franticly trying to get out out there scared to death . These guys walk right through the middle of evrything never acknowledge my family who r pointing guns at them yelling what is going on .. They didnt say a word and walk right in the direction where the creatures where seen.. By this time my family left everything else and drove out of there so fast my grandfather broke a mount on his hitch. I drilled my family and got the same story from all of them.. Never changing threw the years, my mom thinks “big foot” or aliens and the hunters where government officials maybe tracking or hunting them … My grandmother says the way those guys walked through camp never making eye contact or reacting to my uncles pointing rifles at them that it was like they were in another dimension and it overlaped… I think that it was big foot/ alien and those were mib. Anyone else out there ever see or hear anything about pink foam … Any ideas.. I truly believe them ….

  12. This sounds like a hoax due to all the inconsistencies in the story. I think that if someone shot a bigfoot, especially 2 bigfoots that they should have taken them directly to a Credible laboratory intact not in pieces. I would have taken them to a college with the facilities to take all the dna samples they needed and test them. I would not have taken them anywhere having to do with the Government. I would also do everything that I could to keep it from the media, atleast until I had concrete proof of bigfoots existence from credible people or institutions.

  13. Hi, everyone … I’m back with more on the bigfoot shooting story, in spite of the fact I said I’d bow out of that one maybe a month or so ago.

    Why? Well, Robert Lindsay & I finally decided that someone needed to do an on-site investigation of the story — meaning we drove all the way up to the Frenchman Lake area in the California sierras & we both scouted the terrain, flora and fauna, and we interviewed about a dozen folks in the area.

    We also talked to my daughter-in-law (who lives in nearby Truckee, CA) and who is a self-described “empath” (I call her a psychic, which she says isn’t accurate). Starting with her “take” on the incident, she was going to drive with us to the area, but she couldn’t make it due to her regular job. She stared at the pictures of the purported shooter that we had printed from the internet, and she described him as “not a nice person at all” and someone with a lot of “issues”, mainly of the “redneck” or “tough guy” condescending type. She definitely didn’t want these pictures & autobiographical descriptions left in HER house — so we took them with us. Based on our lengthy visit with her (and my son, Paavo), she felt that “the shooter was definitely hiding something” but couldn’t pinpoint what it was. As far as my bottom-line question, “did he shoot a sasquatch or two?”, she said she didn’t have a strong feeling one way or the other.

    The area directly to the west of Frenchman Lake (approx. 5,500 ft elevation) is an incredibly beautiful forested area with mainly non-deciduous tress & plenty of other flora and fauna. It is entirely wooded, with scattered meadows and streams. I really don’t know what “sasquatch habitat” should look like, but this habitat appeares to be ideal for just about any wild animal, including the sasquai–with plenty of clean, flowing water and food, both of the plant-based type and wildlife galore. There is even a herd of pronghorns towards the east, along with the usual Sierra Mountains “game” animals: deer, bear, bobcat, mountain lion, wild turkey, and even the occasional wolverine.

    The only issue would be snow depth in the winter — it would be necessary, probably anywhere from 5,000 feet & up in elevation, for most large mammals to migrate down to lower elevations during heavy snowfall periods. Last winter, in nearby Truckee, the accumulated snow depth was maybe 25 feet, and all-in-all some 50 feet of snow fell during the winter season (probably somewhat less at Frenchman Lake — but still !). The sasquai, to survive in such conditions, would have to learn to make skis or snowshoes to survive the winters in the area; therefore — if they exist in the area of Frenchman Lake — they simply have to migrate to lower elevations.

    As a side-note, the fishing wasn’t all that great. The lake reportedly is populated with non-native rainbow trout and with native western slope cutthroat.

    Out of the ten or so “tourist” or fishing type folks we spoke to, none of them whatsoever had even heard about the incident. A few believed in sasquatch as an existing hominid, while most just laughed about the idea of it — let alone a dual kill ! I found this a bit strange, especially when 3 of the ten worked at the “local” general store, where groceries, hunting and fishing equipment, and God knows what else can be purchased.

    We also interviewed three “officials” in the area: one was a forest service employee, one was a fish-and-game officer, and the last one was a deputy sheriff. The forest service fellow also had not heard of the incident; however he had heard of a recent sasquatch shooting some 20 miles towards the north, closer to Susanville. He said this incident was reported about two weeks prior. He didn’t necessarily believe either of these stories, but he didn’t disbelieve in the possibility that the sasquai exist as a subspecies or “new” hominid.

    The second person, from fish and game, had just recently heard about the incident. After he asked his supervisor if he should investigate it, his supervisor told him “not to waste his time”.

    The third person, from the sheriff’s office, hadn’t heard about the incident either, and he checked to find out if anyone had reported the incident last year, at the time the shooter himself claims he reported it to the “authorities”. There was no such report, whether from last year or more recently, from the shooter or anyone else.

    All in all, my conclusion is: If this incident actually took place, it did not take place where both the shooter, Dr. Ketchum, and Derek Randalls said it took place. Also, while the area to the west of the lake looks to me as ideal habitat, it is also a State Game Refuge where NO firearms or even bows and arrows are allowed at ANY time of the year. And, while there is a roadway that fits the general description suppllied by Randalls and Ketchum, that roadway is entirely within the State Game Refuge and it would have indeed taken some balls (by both the shooter and the pickup truck driver) to drive in there, hunting bear or anything else, and escape without being noticed by anyone at all.

    There was only one way in and out — the dead-end road that starts at the lake and goes to Dixie Mountain — and back the same way again.

    My conclusion — if there was a shooting of one (or two) sasquai, it didn’t take place near Frenchman’s Lake. The Frenchman’s Lake story is at best a decoy. Duh.

    No one to my knowledge, other than Dr. Ketchum herself, has seen any of the purported DNA sequencing on the “bigfoot steak”. I don’t know why she would have lied about this, but who really knows why she does what she does? I doubt that Derek Randalls himself has seen the sequencing; even if he had, how would he know how to interpret it anyway?

    If Ketchum really has a bigfoot steak, this story — in my opinion — is a decoy and it never took place, at least not near Frenchman’s Lake. And, the “steak” may or may not have been provided by the purported shooter.

    I’m 60-40 against the validity of the story myself; but if it happened, it didn’t happen in the area as described in these blogs, or originally on the forum.

    Richard Stubstad

  14. I agree with the thought a ways above, if you kill a BF in a normally legal hunting situation, ..its case closed, BF exists, no matter who you turn the body in to. And no one need fear arrest — you heard shots, found the body. So I dont believe this cockamamy story.

    Furthermore, even any dentition would settle the matter once and for all. Just pull a molar and its case closed. If you are going to cut on the cadaver, just cut off a hand or a foot, and sent that in.

    As to folks getting worried about BF surviving scientific acceptance, it seems to have structured its behavior and lifestyle (or evolution structured it) to just such a problem. If it had ever had the sense or instincts to compete with Homo sapiens, it would have been wiped out long ago. Instead it is nocturnal and shy, and with a hominid brain and living in the wilderness, it can and has avoided conflict with man. With the existing game laws, I think it will do just fine. With classification as a human relative, it could well be made a capitol crime to kill one.

    As to the use of the word “ape” in any BF context, its totally inappropriate. I dont think there is any evidence that any ape evolved into bipedal locomotion. Apes and homonids had a common ancestor, but thats it.

    But its a big step in the direction of acceptance, to sequence its DNA, so keep working on it, and kudos to all the scientists willing to go out on a limb. Science is based on speculation, but lots of science has fallen into a dogmatic mindset.


  16. Wow-I-have-a-real-problem-with-all-this.First-there-was-no-shooting-come-on.Second-all-these-people-chiming-in-and-not-one-bit-of-proof-from-DNA-after-all-this-time.No-new-photo-evidence-after-all-the-talk-of-the-new-film-obtained.Hell-there-is-nothing-that-has-any-substance-at-all.Im-sorry-to-say-even-with-all-the-proof-I-have-Im-going-to-rethink-this-BF-thing-all-over.Maybe-we-are-all-fooling-ourselves-and-the-sightings-are-just-flukes.

    1. As far as DNA evidence, I have published what I feel is ethical to publish (without the exact details of WHICH DNA pairs are unique or new). See While these three entries (articles) do not prove beyond ANY doubt that sasquatch exists, it does provide come compelling evidence for at least SOMETHING “different” (DNA-wise) out there in the bush.

      As far as decent — in fact excellent — footage, all I can tell you is that I’ve seen some equally compelling footage that hasn’t been released yet. While the footage I’ve seen could have been faked by (say) Spielberg, I sincerely doubt that kind of money was behind making these ordinary medium- to high-def camcorder recordings of sasquatch.

      Lastly, patience is a virtue.

      Richard Stubstad

    2. And by the way, none of what I mentioned above has anything to do with the “Sierra Shootings” that Robert Lindsay has thoroughly investigated. What I said is about other creatures, elsewhere.

      I personally don’t know what to make of the ever-changing shootings story; I am of the opinion we may never know the truth of the matter. I actually hope it isn’t true, but some version of it may be true, I’ll admit.


  17. Robert,

  18. Ladies and Gents,

    As much as I would like there to be evidence that takes these animals from the story books to the scietific journals killing one isn’t the way to go.

    If the story is true and the guy killed two for what ever reason, and he didnt report it, he should be questioned by the authorities at least. I belive you must positively identify your game before you shoot or you are subject to some sort of penalty and the state takes the body or game away. When legitmately hunting you never shoot any game you cant identify clearly or is a female with young(or looks like a bigfoot or a man in a suit). I dont think you can be arrested for killing a non identified creature but you can be in trouble for shooting something that you don’t posess a tag for no matter what it is.

    I am a hunter here in AZ and that is what I belive the law to be, but I could be wrong.

    As a federal officer protecting our borders, the invetigator in me says that this guy and all involved are acting fishy. COME CLEAN AND DISCLOSE TO EVERYONE INCLUDING THE MEDIA OR GO AWAY! NO MORE FRAUDS.

    1. it is so true, the made up story, imaginary wittnesess, the secret insiders and ever present Lindsay making it up or sucking up to these BS’ers…

      what is a shame is how he is struggling to keep up the lie, like a kid busted…

      Just let it go Lindsay

      1. In defense of Linday, I will testify to the fact that he has checked and rechecked his sources, one of whom was me. Lindsay & I who both live in Southern or Central CA drove up to the Frenchman’s lake area to check out “random” witnesses to the Smeja story. Some witnesses had talked to Smeja, most had not.

        While we were off on our guess as to exact location of the purported shootings, Lindsay was right on about the shooting of two sasquatch (pl.) according to these witnesses.

        Lindsay has taken this to a higher level than this; I did this to help out and because I also found the story to be less than credible. It appears now to be true. I am less certain about Smeja’s renditions, because he tells you what you want to hear, nothing more.

        I also know the infamous “Bigfoot Steak” is real, because I spoke to Melba about it while she was visually inspecting it the day it arrived at her Texas lab. I thought it must have been human and as such the makings of a hoax. It turns out it was from an actual bigfoot. But whether Smeja himself shot or otherwise killed this creature is not proven. What is proven is that the bigfoot steak is a bigfoot; not a human or bear, etc.

        No, Lindsay has done his homework here. Lay off of him, Mr. Doubtfire.


    1. Cheers Allen. The evidence is indeed there but you’ll have to put some effort in to locate it all. There is not, alas, a convenient storage facility for the curious and doubting thomas’ to access at their whim, but if you’re
      interested and determined you’ll find your way. That said, hoaxing and secrecy have done incalculable harm to this endeavour and with Ketchum flaming out the ’cause’ is further tarnished, at the expense, I regret to say, of many otherwise thoughtful and conscientious individuals. And I hasten to remind you that the word “discovery” is not yet a perjorative . . . It took some time to ‘discover’ a bacterium — CFAJ-1 — that lunches on arsenic, so perhaps you mightn’t be so quick to slap blinders on yourself when it comes to bigfoot . . . Cheers!

  19. Weird, wild stuff! I got into this story wayyy late as I just heard about it on Coast-to-Coast. Personally, it sounds like bs to me but wth knos? I find it hard to believe a scientist gets proof positive evidence of something she’s spent her career looking for, then gets cold feet when it’s dropped in her lap. My guess is if she did test something tangible, she “freaked” when it came back human – The only thing cops would be seizing is possible crime evidence. Although, the idea of someone wandering around in ape suits with two kids in tow boggles the mind. While tragic, I don’t see how some yahoo is in trouble for shooting them unless he was poaching. He’s trigger happy but not a murderer. The debate about the legality of killing something that allegedly doesn’t exist is quite a conundrum tho.

    I’ve always thought there was enough circumstantial evidence to prove BFs existed but this would obviously be the holy grail, and quite frankly long overdue. So, I don’t want to condemn this shooter just yet as he’s advanced science, and put an end to the endless speculation once-and-for-all.

    However, I think the sparsity of the coverage I could find about this case says it all, but ty for posting about it anyway Mr. Lindsay bc… ya never kno!

  20. For what it’s worth, I sincerely doubt whether Ketchum will come up with anything peer reviewed and published by the Lindsay-proclaimed “drop dead” date of April 30th.

    Still, I’m pretty sure she has the data, and DNA proof in her grasp. She may be trying to fit a round peg into a square hole, and as long as she tries this approach, it just won’t work in a scientific journal (peer reviewed or otherwise).

    For example, Lindsay posted some nuclear differences here that miraculously matched up with the mitochondrial differences a while back that matched the Lloyd Pye Starchild skull’s DNA profile. One problem (among many) with that is Lloyd Pye is talking about the mito while I have every reason to believe that Ketchum is referrring to the nuclear profiles.

    More importantly, Pye has already been written off by mainstream science, since he proclaimed that his skull was from outer space. Big mistake to do this, even if it is true. It is enough to outline the differences and let the UFO enthusiasts speculate with their hypotheses.


    1. Is there any speculation as to why nothing was published? I was under the impression that the project was finished. Is there too many people arguing on 1st rights to release the material?

  21. Reading the taxidermy thread from Archives website is interesting, I think a lot can be said about the shooters initial answers to scrutiny,

  22. What I struggle with in all this is that the shooter supposedly cradled the Baby Bigfoot to its death. Why bother going and cutting a steak out of Mamma Bigfoot when you could have thrown Baby Bigfoot in the truck whole? This whole story defies ration. I am confident Bigfoot exists, but am less confident in the those organizations and individuals who claim to be Bigfoot “experts”. Why don’t all these organizations and scientists work together for the common good of getting Bigfoot out of the closet and protected by the Federal government. How many more of these creatures need to be in the crosshairs, shot and killed and their evidence wasted or hidden, lost to the public who crave to know the truth of their existence believer or not.

  23. florida cracker belive or not trust me the woods of florida hold a very speical thing that we most all watchover and leave a lone i have seen them on hunting trips and am sure they have seen me i put my 3006 down and watched without fear at the end we both walked off being better in our lives knowing that we are not alone god bless them.and i as a hunter will never raise my wepon against one.this is not or will it be the lsat time am sure that i have been given the chance to see one. if you dont belive ok but when you do become one the feeling you feel is overwhelming and you will never be the same again belive we are not alon

  24. All of you wussies who want to protect a sasquatch sound like celebrities who want to protect grizzly bear and rattlesnakes and who knows what else, as though they are just some cute stuffed animal toy that lives peacefully in the woods. Reality is these bigfoot are dangerous. All wild animals are dangerous. They survive for their lives each and every day and they can rip your body in half and are stronger and faster than anything on our continent. Bigfoots have been reported to attack hunters, to rape women, steal, kidnap, and probably eat children. They will eat your livestock and they will attack whatever pets or animals you have on your property. Shoot and kill at all cost or you what you have, especially if you live out in the woods by yourself is a very elusive and sneaky beast who is watching your every move… waiting and planning on when it can get close enough to harm you and probably eat your liver afterwards.

  25. where do you guys get your spice from? must be some good shit! I saw a squatch riding a unicorn. shot the unicorn. have proof they exist. this post is proof because I would not lie about anything as serious as unicorns.

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