White Pride Latin America

Interesting comments from the comments section. First a fellow named Robert posts a comment, then a White Mexican named Rafa responds. I very much enjoyed their interchange, and I will comment at the end:

Robert: As a White Latin American, I think a lot of the information you put was wrong. At least the part about White Latin Americans disappearing. The CIA World Factbook puts Mexico White population at 9%, but I heard its really 15% to 18%. And Mexico’s White population wasn’t 40% during the colonial period it was more like close to 20%. I’ve heard that there are migrants heading to northern Mexico, but the majority of Northeast Mexico is still White.

You can talk to a lot of Latin Americans about that. They’ll tell you the same thing. My friend who goes to Mexico says the same thing. And as for Brazil, Sao Paulo is 70% non white? SAY WHAT!!!! I’m sorry, I haven’t been there yet, but that is just purely wrong. I’ve read in the census that its 70% White.

Personally I AM GLAD there are a lot of white people in Latin America. But then again, I personally think that if a person looks White, then they are obviously white. Even if they are 20% black or whatever. I may have been born and grown up in the U.S., but in the end, I guess I haven’t assimilated I guess.

I don’t mean to come off as if I am insulting you but I think at least half the information you got was wrong. At least when it came to the decline of White population. However, remember, all mestizos do not look the same. The phenotype can range from more European to more Indian. The White upper class of Mexico and Brazil may be mixed, but the non-white ancestry may not be enough to show and vice-versa.

Basically its a color continuum.

Rafa: I find it interesting that you said that if a person is 20% Black but looks White, then they are obviously White. By that standard, I would have to say that Mexico is between 33-40% White. The reason is simple. Amerindian features are more easily diluted than are Black African features.

There are even White Americans who are known to have claimed some sort of native indigenous ancestry such as Chuck Norris, the late Patrick Swayze, and Johnny Depp (this last one actually looks like a lot Mexicans I grew up with). The term Euro-Mestizo has even entered the lexicon of American English terms used to describe people according to their race, specifically light-skinned Mexicans who are predominantly White in appearance.

I don’t know about you, but I think that ever since the world got smaller through the invention of broadcast television and the internet, Latin Americans have gotten into a tendency of competing with each other to see whose country is whiter or has a larger population of Whites. What do you think?

By the way, as far as Northeastern Mexico being majority White, I would have to say that I agree with that statement. As you might have already guessed, I am in fact Mexican and from the Northeastern border city of Nuevo Laredo,Tamaulipas.

I grew up across the border in Laredo, Texas and it is basically an explicit fact that my native region is not as White as it used to be. Many people from Southern Mexico, and even some from Central America have established themselves in Nuevo Laredo, Reynosa, Matamoros, and Monterrey in neighboring Nuevo Leon state.

Most Mexican nationals who reside in Laredo, Texas are in fact White (as are most of their Mexican-American brethren in the region), and this often shocks non-Mexican Hispanics coming from the East Coast and California.

This is a sort of Latin American White Pride that I do not have a whole lot of issues with. To me, it resembles Black Pride in the US, which is generally healthy because it avoids some extremes and pitfalls. Some of the benefits vis a vis nasty US White Pride:

No emphasis on purity: If anything, in Black Pride there is an emphasis on less purity due to Black America’s obsession with light skin. That is, the less Black you have in you, the more proud you are, paradoxically. Now, that is not necessarily a good thing, but at least it gets us away from the purity poison.

Your average Black person in the US is 15% White. Most sane Blacks have not issues with this figure at all, and sane Black society does not regard US Blacks as impure or demand any kind of racial purity from them. You don’t have to be 100% Black to be Black in the US! Three cheers for that!

In contrast, US White Pride is utterly toxic in terms of racial “contamination.” If you have the tiniest bit of non-White in you, you’re automatically non-White. Even a lot of White ethnics are ruled out as Whites and described as non-Whites. Examples include Jews, Armenians, Turks, Eastern Aryans, Iranians, White Berbers, White Arabs, Georgians, the Caucasus, Albanians and Southern Europeans in general.

It’s absurd. Another thing to note is that in general, among races, the more emphasis there is on purity, the more violent, fascist and even genocidal the group is. It’s no accident that the Germans and Japanese were both genocidal and strongly emphasized purity of race. The two things go together quite well. As you get away from the purity trap, you become more loving and inclusive and less likely to engage in race-based violence, much less genocide. This is because, as a “contaminated” person yourself, you can’t much demand purity from others.

Increased love for others: Most White Latin Americans don’t hate the small amount of Indian or Black in themselves. It’s not the end of the world. They have a more relaxed attitude towards race, and they often love the non-White in themselves. If you love the Other in yourself, you are more likely to love the Other in others.

No demands for segregation. Latin American Whites don’t demand segregation. There was some segregation in Latin America, especially in Cuba and Ecuador, but it’s long gone. In Cuba, it lasted as long as the Revolution.

Let’s get real here for a second. What’s behind the demands for segregation? They are about fears of racial annihilation. This is what the fears of race-mixing and miscegenation were all about. But White Latin Americans are already somewhat mixed, so in a sense, they are already an annihilated race. There’s nothing to fear from dilution if you’re already diluted yourself, so there’s no need for segregation. Let the mixing begin!

A more relaxed attitude about race. White nationalists go on and on about colorism in Latin America, but at the end of the day, it’s not as big a deal as racism is here in the US. Colorism is simply not as virulent and nasty as White racism here in the US. It’s all a continuum, a sliding scale.

Thinking in a grey or continuum type manner is healthier than thinking in a black and white Manichean manner. Grey thinking is more relaxed and adaptive and leads to more tolerance and flexibility.

What problems there are in Latin America regarding race are ll tied up with class. Many Latin American so-called Whites don’t even look all that White. Indians are disliked due to class hatred, not necessarily racial hatred. The most hardened attitudes are found in South America, especially in the Andes.

It’s not that Latin America has overcome the race issue, but more that they have more or less transmuted it into a class issue. In a region where you can trade in your Indian clothes, stop speaking Indian, move to the city and then start wearing mestizo clothing and speaking Spanish and thereby automagically transform yourself from an Indian into a mestizo is a place were biological race is not so important anymore. It has been replaced by social race.

Less fear of miscegenation. I am not aware that Latin American Whites are zealously guarding their bloodlines anymore. If they are, let me know. You can hardly demand that others marry White if you are not pure White yourself. There are some Latin American Whites who would like it to be this way, but they are going against nature. In particular, Latin American White males are increasingly marrying and breeding with relatively light-skinned mestizas. The purists lament this, but what can you do? A man will be a man.

In addition, there  is another operative trend, and that is the widespread tendency among Latin American mestizas to try to “marry White” in an effort to move up in the world themselves and to create a better future for their offspring. This is highly adaptive female thinking, and it leads to a paradoxical “Whitening” effect among mestizos that occurs concurrently with whatever “darkening” effect is going on among Latin American Whites.

It’s the wave of the future. As the world’s population gets more mixed, the sort of White Pride seen in Latin America will become more the norm for all groups. True, pure races will slowly die out and become more rare, but that’s neither good nor bad, it just is. If US Blacks, a mixed group, can be proud, then anyone can be proud of their racial elements. The progeny of a racial stew can feel proud of all of the elements that went into that stew. The result is an ethnic pride that is more tolerant, loving and unconditional.

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55 thoughts on “White Pride Latin America”

  1. Dear Robert
    In one way, American racism is better than Latin American colorism because it does not create divisions between siblings. When a lot of race-mixing has occurred in a group, siblings can vay widely in color. Let’s say that Paul is light-skinned while his brother Jack is dark-skinned. In Latin America, Paul could call himself white but his brother could not, whereas in the US they would both be black.

    There was a certain practical logic to American racial thinking. It had essentially 4 rules:

    1 – No marriage between whites and blacks
    2 – Little sexual intercourse between white men and black women
    3 – Very strong taboo on sexual intercouse between black men and white women
    4 – Assignment of all hybrids to the black community.

    The operation of these rules insured that everybody had a place either in the white or the black community, that siblings would not be separated from each other if they had the same mother, that children would never be separated from their mother, and that hybrid children would be few. I can think of worse rules.
    It was inconsistent in that whites were obsessed about racial purity but blacks were not, and also in that white women could give birth to “black” children but black women could never give birth to white children.
    Life gets complicated when citizens of the same country have diferent rights and different status simply because of race.

    Regards. James

    1. A problem with the one drop rule is that someone who is half white and half black often does not recognize their white heritage and that is very sad to see. A mullato is just as much white as they are black.

    2. This system had plenty of drawbacks. I think the strong opposition to racial mixing as well as the emphasis on a black-white dichotomy acted to stigmatize people with very mixed phenotypes and backgrounds.

    3. That makes sense in a segregated society were Blacks and Whites had different WC’s and all that. But the point here is exactly that being “White” but with some Black or Amerindian ancestry may have been what prevented that segregation in the first place.

    4. James,

      Many families in Latin America have many Pauls and Jacks that colorism hardly plays a factor. Yes, people would say Paul is white (as in having white skin) and Jack is tanned (trigueno, moreno, etc). What’s your point? People there are used to families being like this that it is hardly novelty. In the US, Paul and Jack would be looked as an “aberration” and would no doubt be questioned “are you sure the two of you are siblings?” or “how come you’re dark-skinned when your brother looks white?” which in my opinion would be a lot more hurtful.

  2. Dear seedofjabheth
    I quite agree with you that the one-drop rule is quite illogical. Obama is just as much white as he black, whatever he may call himself. Whether it is sad, I’m not sure, but illogical it certainly is.

    Cheers. James

  3. That was one of the best blog entries I’ve read here. I’ve never looked at it that way. Lots to think about.

    I’m not sure about segregation being about fear of racial annihilation, though. I think it’s about more mundane things: fear of your kids getting knifed in school, etc.

  4. Robert, with all due respect, I think this post is a little off base.

    Tolerance of miscegenation in no way equals some kind of healthy, “loving,” or tolerant ethnic pride. In fact, if you look at the history of those places, it was more often than not a method of social control.

    If you’re a Spanish conquistador, and you’re faced with a large and hostile Indian population, and you haven’t brought over a large settler population like the English did, what to do?

    Answer, the mestizo middle man. Ditto for Brazilian mulattos.

    If you want to see white Latin American “tolerance” in action, one only needs to look to Guatemala or Colombia to see just how much Indians are tolerated.

    You also say that hatred of Indians has more to do with class than race. Funny then, how most Indians just happen to be poor.

    I don’t think white Latin American pride or Latin American race distinctions are helpful at all.

    If anything, this color continuum and promotion of mestizoism probably has a lot to do with why so many Hispanics have such confused identities. Ditto for Filipinos, another people who were colonized by Spaniards.

    As Thad once said with regards to Brazil, it’s a mistake for Americans to think that race mixing and the lack of focus on purity or ancestry somehow results in greater tolerance and racial harmony. That’s just Brazil’s brand of race relations. It’s not better or worse than the U.S’s.

    1. Well, in Mexico or Guatemala, all you have to do is quit speaking Indian, take off your Indian clothes, start speaking Spanish and put on Spanish clothes and you’re automatically a mestizo, just like that.

      I live in a city full of Mexicans and I don’t see much hatred of the Indians, but maybe I am missing something. In the bars they all hang out together, Indians, mestizos, Whites, no one cares. I’ve brought up race to the Mexicans around here and most act relaxed about it. You get the impression that it’s not that big of a deal. It’s also sort of a taboo subject.

      The WN lie is that racism is just as virulent in Latin America as it is in the US. I think that’s nonsense. Some of the White elites are racist in those places, but not all. I have known Colombians, Brazilians, Venezuelans and Argentines and I didn’t get them feeling that any of them were all that racist. The worst racist I ever met was a Chilean. To the extent that there’s any racism, it’s practiced by the lighter elites, but even then, it’s more class than race. If Chavez was a rich rightwinger, no one would care. Because he’s for the masses, he’s a “mono,” a monkey. It’s social race.

      And Thad is the mirror image of a WN. Both WN’s and Thad types think that the world is full of horrible racism. They’re both full of crap. I had a Brazilian gf for a while here in the US, and I used to talk to a number of Brazilians online, mostly Whites. They never said the slightest racist thing to me, not ever, not once. To the extent that they were racist at all, they were about as racist as you’re average US liberal “race realist” type. Just cynical about race.

      What’s funny is that I live in a city full of Mexicans and I don’t get the feeling that any of them have confused racial identities. Mexicans are so mixed that race simply is not much of an issue to them if you ask me.

      1. Robert is 100% correct about how Latinos view race in the US.

        I don’t know about the states south of the USA, but I can vouch for Latin Americans in California. I’m Latino myself and I’ve lived around Latinos for all my life in Los Angeles. In general, most of them identify primarily with either a weird mix of US and Latin American nationality or this vague notion of Hispanic culture (Hispanic cultures tend to have a lot in common). If they don’t do either of those, they simply don’t identify with anything at all.

        This creates a bunch of weird and, frankly, sort of hilarious situations. I know a full-blooded Mexican Indian chick who considers all these mixed Mestizos her brothers based on their nationality. I once had a crush on this Mexican chick who had freckles and skin that was white as snow – yet if you told her she was biologically a European White, she’d give you a funny look. Then you have these light-skinned, slanted-eyed Hispanics, who are usually dubbed “Chino/a” (Chinese boy/girl). Or families where one brother looks Indian while the sister looks like she’s from Portugal, or where the whole family can pass off as Greeks or Itallians lol. Or all the hot, light-skinned, dark-haired, dark-eyed Latin chicks roaming everywhere.

        So yeah. The Latinos here don’t care about biological race – at least WITHIN the culture. As far as they’re concerned, if you speak Spanish (or LOOK like you do lol) and follow Latin American customs, you’re one of them.

        1. I’ve given up trying to discuss biological race with Hispanics. Now while even many white Hispanics will have a slightly detectable bit of Indian blood, I have seen white Hispanics that have no obvious non-white ancestry and look 100% European who still consider themselves “non-white” just because they speak Spanish(many of them seem to forget that Spanish is as white a language as English) and have ancestry in Latin America. It’s ridiculous. That guy Rick Sanchez is an example.

        2. I’ve given up trying to discuss biological race with Hispanics.

          Good idea.

          U.S. Hispanics are pretty damned confused when it comes to racial identity.

          I think the ideology of mestizoism combined with U.S. non-white identity politics has much to do with it.

        3. As I will explain soon (uh ok maybe not so soon lol), the way Latinos view race is the proper way to view it i.e. as a combination and steady group evolution of linguistic, psychological, behavioral, national, and familial lines instead of haplogroups or skin color or whatever the cool kids are doing these days. In short, in order to get a full understanding of the effects of genetics and culture (aka nature vs. nurture) on the world, “race” needs to be defined as narrowly as is allowed.

        4. Tulio makes a very good point about White Hispanics refusing to identify as “White” just because they speak Spanish. From my own personal experience, something funny happened to me while I was growing up. While I was a young kid in elementary school, I always thought that my family and I were “Blancos” given our very strong Euro Mediterranean features. When I got to high school is when I found out that I wasn’t White…at least here in the U.S. By “found out” I mean that other Hispanics told me that I should stop “wanting to be White”…that I should be proud to be Hispanic. After a lot of racial identity discernment from my part (given the peer pressure), I started identifying racially as “Hispanic”. The even funnier thing is that some Hispanics would even tell me, “Oh, I thought you were White”, right after they would meet me for the first time. Which, you can imagine how much racial confusion these type of comments caused me.

          Well into my college years, I started to slowly understand the way some Hispanics, or at least in my case, Mexican-Americans view racial identity. Quite simply, many strictly believe that White=WASP. The fact that there exist Whites with olive complexions, dark hair, and brown eyes is something that was beyond their understanding. To make a long story short, it was my trip to Europe in 1996 that allowed me to put the whole racial identity stuff in its proper context. When I was in Italy it slowly dawned on me how much I blended in. This “awakening” didn’t happen until my 2nd or 3rd day in Rome while I was checking out souvenirs in some tourist shop. I was in the way of some British dudes when one of them said to me, “Scuse per favore”. I replied in English, “Sorry man, go ahead” and the guy looked at me kinda funny. Right at that moment is when I realized that the British guy thought I was one of the locals. The icing on the cake is that some Italians would even speak to me in Italian at first. Since my Mexican Hispanic identity was very strong at the time, I would respectfully say to the Italians “io non sono Italiano…io sono Messicano”. Nowadays, when people tell me, “You look Italian” I’m pretty cool with it. And, I have concluded that if I “look Italian”…then that must mean that I’m just another White Euro-Med like the Italians and Spaniards and like the millions of Mexicans out there who refuse to acknowledge it.

        5. @ Rafa

          You make an excellent point. Forgive me, but American Hispanics can be quite retarded when it comes to racial classifications.

          I once got into a debate with a Hispanic guy back in high school about whether or not Manu Ginobili (the Argentine basketball star of the San Antonio Spurs) was white.

          I pointed out that he was of European descent, that he looked white, etc. He then said no, that he was “Latino.” He even claimed that Italians weren’t white because of their olive skin. Ditto for Spaniards.

          So yes, you are quite right. For many U.S. Hispanics, white = blonde hair and blue eyes, or WASP.

          Like Tulio, I’ve given up trying to debate race with Hispanics. I did it once in high school, and I never intend to do it again.

        6. I actually have a theory as to why so many American Hispanics buy into this whole white = WASP theory.

          Perhaps it has something to do with self-esteem and image. Think about it. Would you rather identify Spaniards as white, and see yourself as belonging to a group whose ancestors were raped and subjugated by these white Spaniards? In Mexico itself, I heard that there’s the saying that Mexicans “are the children of the woman who was fucked.” The woman, of course, being the oppressed Indian, and the rapist being the white conquistador. Would you want to have to grapple with the fact that you have the blood of both a pathetic, raped woman, and an oppressive rapist? I’ve heard it said that this has to do a lot with the inferiority complex among many Mexicans.

          However, if you’re an American Hispanic, and you live in a country where non-white identity politics are chic, it’s a lot more psychologically comforting to see all Hispanics/Latinos as being one big happy, colored family, rather than having to grapple with the fact that one of your ancestors was a white rapist, and another a fucked Indian woman.

          I have other theories as to why Hispanics identify the way they do, but this is just one of them.

        7. I also think the whole “we are all Mestizos” ideology promoted by Mexico’s elites has something to do with it.

          It probably also explains why Filipinos, who were similarly colonized by Spaniards for over three centuries, suffer from so much identity confusion.

        8. @ Bay Area Guy….No need to apologize about American Hispanics being retarded when it comes to racial classifications. Besides retarded, you can add clueless and confused too. You nailed it with the complex that many Mexican and Chicano mestizos subconsciously carry. Hijos (Sons) de la (of the ) Chingada (raped female) is one of the harshest, if not the harshest, insult one could say to a collective group of Mexican men. The root of this cultural phenomena goes all the way back to the original couple who procreated the first Mexican Mestizo…Spanish conquistador Hernán Cortez and Malintzin, aka La Malinche…aka La Chingada.

          To this day, if anyone in Mexico is a vocal critic against any aspect of his/her country…be it culture, politics, sports, history, etc..that person will always be labeled a “Malinchista”. Like La Malinche who sided with the Spaniards, any Mexican person who tends to belittle or be openly ashamed of his Mexican culture, race, and/or ethnicity will always be labeled a Malinchista. Even if someone who is phenotypically White identifies with his/her Spanish heritage, the consequences can very much be summed up in widespread social stigma. Of course, if you’re high up in the social ladder you’re pretty much insulated from reprisal. But, if you’re middle class, it helps to keep one’s own racial identification to his or herself. If you’re poor, you have no other choice than to identify as “Indio”.

          Now that I think about it, I think this also explains the cultural divide that we Northern Mexicans have with Central and Southern Mexicans. Any talk or discussion about the predominant European heritage in Norteños is usually followed by an incredulous, sarcastic laugh by Mexicans in the southern half of the country. A clear example of this is the comment left by Ivan down below. Notice, he only provides opinions and speculations and no sources concerning the relatively high European admixture of Norteños. I actually provided a link to some sources that actually back up my argument. I have yet to hear a response from him.

          Plain and simple, Mexicans like Ivan have a hard accepting that there are many, many White Mexicans out there who are not necessarily upper class….and who are most commonly found in my native region, the Northeast. That’s why I posted those links concerning the 78.5% European admixture in the population of Monterrey, which also includes the 2nd or 3rd generation descendants of migrants from the states of San Luis Potosí and Zacatecas.

        9. Actually, Ivan was deflating the percentage of European Admixture in Mexican Norteños. What I meant was that he provides no sources concerning his argument that Northern Mexicans only have a 65% European admixture.

      2. yes :/ a relaxed attitude about race dont make mexicans racial oppressors,the good thing is that but the bad is…that is makes them so passive and they are instead the racial victims! (talking about the browns who dont care about being absent in mexican media and power,NO OPPRESSORS BUT VICTIMS :/)

  5. Robert, I have a question. What would you consider “white”? I mean, what eprcentage of white does a person have to be? For example, the majority of mestizos in northern Mexico are very white (up to nearly 80% white). Would you consider them white? If they identified as mestizo, would you consider them mestizo or if they identified as white, would you consider them white? I have a feeling Europeans are more strongly attached to the one-drop rule, but I have met some Europeans (including Spaniards) who have told me that if a person is more than 50% Spanish, then he/she should be considered Spanish.

      1. Ok so wut if your half mexican. half white. You look white. but you act more mexican? like you eat spanish foods, talk spanish, hang out with nothing but hispanics. and everything you do has to do with hispanic culture.. just asking

        1. the first thing you need to understand is that there is no such thing being half white half mexican because mexican is neither race or color. its only an etnicity/nationality. so you can be half brazilian half mexican or half french half mexican or half chinese half mexican that would be right. but since ure mixing it up with color of your skin it doesnt make any sense. its like saying someone is half black half muslim !?!? why mix skin color with religion. thats where american media is wrong and the reason why the rest of the world thinks theyre retarded. becuase they cant even make a difference between race/color/origin/culture/ethnicity/nationality/religion/faith. so a person can be as follows race(caucasian)/color(white)/origin(hispanic)/culture(latin)/ethnicity(mexican)/nationality(american)/religion(christian) and faith(catholic). so to make story short hispanic is not a culture latin is. and latin culture came from southern europe via spain to latin america. so white person aka european has even more right to be a latino than any other. hispanic only means u claim ure ancestors came from spain (even if theres a chance that ure a full blown indio and they didnt come from spain).

  6. D made some interesting points.

    I suspect there is lots of ignorance regarding “race” as a biological description. I wonder how many people you survey “on the street” here in East L.A. would answer Mexican if you asked them “what is your race?”

    Much of the racial laissez faire attitude on the part of Latinos might simply be complacency. In fact, I further suspect that the concept of Mexicans as composed of a myriad of true “races” might find a shitload of resistance in this community. Young college-minded Latinos proclaim Aztlan! We need an identity and we seek on out, even if it’s bullshit.

    If I shop in East L.A., I’m spoken in Spanish.
    Hanging out in American Anglo circles, I’ve been asked if I was Armenian, Italian or Jewish. I’m just your dime o dozen mestizo with familial roots in Monterrey and Zacatecas man. BAG’s concept of “confused identities” is spot on.

    I remember in high school I had a social studies teacher, Mr. Segovia, who said Mexicans were a race of mutts. I just wanted the period to end but now, I realize how insightful this was.

  7. I think it’s important to remember that the US one drop rule has not eliminated colorism from American society. Rather, it has just excluded those of pure (or apparently pure) European descent from involvement in the issue. The substantial phenotypic variation in the US “black” population and differentials in social treatment that result form this diversity have contributed to a great deal of tension over the years (“dark skin” versus “light skin”). This conflict was manageable when the overwhelming majority of the African-descent population clustered close to the African side of the genetic continuum. However, with the growing prevalence of interracial marriage, we’re now seeing the same range of black-white mixture present in mulatto societies like Brazil or in the 19th century Southern United States. Not surprisingly, colorism in both directions (dark to light and light to dark) seems to be intensifying. I’ve noticed in reading online comments that many self-identified blacks now specify without prompting whether they are “light skin” or “dark skin” before giving their perspective on an issue.

    It’s hard for a group to maintain cohesion when the color of its members ranges from blue-black to porcelain. Many younger mixed people of partial African descent have embarked on a somewhat controversial campaign (the “multiracial movement”) to gain social and governmental recognition for individuals of diverse racial heritage. I think this is a good thing partly because I believe that creation of an intermediate group will help to relieve the social tensions building up over phenotypic diversity.

  8. I personally think color shouldnt matter. If you have white skin and have mexican herritage in you and show it more, then you should consider yourself hispanic. Same for as if your brown but half white and u see yourself as white u shuld just be white. But both white colored or brown must realise u have both in you so dont deny one side just cuz of your color or wut u want too be. You know who u r

    1. Reminds of a Mexican girl I know from Mexicali. She looks white as hell. Her whole immediate family is very light-skinned, light-haired, light-eyed, and in fact I think her last name is a shortened version of a common Anglo surname. Yet, she is as Mexican as they come. Her English, written and spoken, is atrocious and she has that hardcore Mexican attitude. She a total chuntis. And there is me, looking Mexican through and through talking and acting like whitey, a real pocho. With Mexicans,you just never know what the hell you’re going to get.

  9. My family is from Mexico and the majority of our background is of European blood lines. 85% is of European blood (Spanish, French, basque, ect.) and 15% is of Indian blood. Many of my relatives look white. I also have many relatives that have married White Ameicans, and their children look completely white. Their children look Enlish, Italian, German, Irish, Spanish, French, Danish, etc. I don’t consider them or my original family members from Mexico to be completely white, but I would consider us to be majority or mostly white. I am more tward the idea that to be white you must be 100% white or nearly 100% white (96% white or more). I think that being in the U.S.A. you should speak English and should assimilate into the main culture. But, remember Mexican and Latin American culture is not to different from Amercan culture. Some of the so called culture of Mexico and Latin America depends on the class of the people from that region. Being a gang memeber, being poor, and lacking education has nothing to do with Latin American culture. Some people would think that to be so. I don’t blame White Americans fearing people of color. They want to keep the country a large majority white, and so do I.

  10. This interchange makes me laugh. Genetically as a whole, northerners are at most 65% European. Genetically they are 62-65% Euro, 32-35% Amerind and 2-3% African. It’s a lie that the average northern mestizo is over 80% european. There is no region in Mexico like that. The most Euro state is probably Jalisco or Sonora and they barely score 68% Euro.
    In no way the majority of Northern Mexicans are white, most look clearly mixed. At most 25% of Northerners look white. Also, the north is barely 1/5 of Mexico’s population. The average Mexican nationwide is 52% Amerindian/45% Euro/ 3% African. From a racial point of view and taking whites and white-looking people, no matter their genetics, “whites” are at most 12-15% of Mexico. The guy who said that using those standarts 33-40% are white must be blind or simply doesn’t know how Europeans look.

    1. Ivan, I’ll accept your argument that Northern Mexicans are at most 65% European if you provide any sources to back it up. You say that it’s a lie that the average Northern Mestizo is over 80%….that there is no region in Mexico like that? You mention that the most Euro states, Jalisco or Sonora, are at most 68% Euro. Again, where’s your source?

      As I’ve stated before, I’m from the Northeast. I’m as Norestense as they come, having been born in Tamaulipas, but with roots in Nuevo Leon on both my mom and dad’s side of the family. As a Mexican guy who knows his native region pretty well, I would have to say that the abundant Mestizos and the very few Indians that you see here ARE NOT NATIVE TO THE REGION. Mestizos from Central Mexico started moving here less than a hundred years ago….Indians from the South, only recently. If you studied Mexican history, you would know that the Northeast was the region with the least number of indigenous inhabitants at the time of Spanish colonization. THERE WERE NO MAJOR URBAN DENSELY POPULATED CIVILIZATIONS LIKE AZTECS AND MAYAS IN CENTRAL AND SOUTHERN MEXICO, RESPECTIVELY. Here in the Northeast, like all across the Northwest, it is freaking hot!!!! It’s an arid desert type region. The only type of Indians that ever passed through here were the nomadic types, you know, hunter/gatherers. They were extremely resistant to assimiliation and they eventually became extinct. Anyways, enough of the history/geography lesson and into the cold hard facts. In the Northeast, we might not be 80% White, but we’re damn near close (78.5%), and it even shows in our phenotypes, from the richest to the poorest.

      Here’s the link from the U.S. National Library of Medicine National Institutes of Health concerning the 78.5% Euro admixture in the Monterrey Metropolitan Area or MMA:

      Here’s another link from the same source that specifically mentions that the population of Nuevo Leon which shows the greatest native indigenous genetic contribution is the one that just recently migrated there, while the population with the greatest Spanish genetic contribution is the one that has been there since before the last century:

  11. Hey Robert, I posted a response to Ivan, but it didn’t come out. What’s up? I’m pretty sure I clicked on “post comment”.

        1. Well, I guess I’m gonna have to finally download Firefox. To be honest with you, I’ve been resisting it for about 6 years. Oh well, time to move forward. Thanks for your help Robert and keep postin’. Peace out.

      1. Hey, Robert…I think I know what’s going on. Whenever I try to paste a web link, the comment doesn’t post. If I do not paste the web link, the comment will post. How do I post a comment with a web link? I’ve been able to do it before. I have no idea why I can’t do it anymore. BTW, how do I post a pic along with my comment?

        1. It’s such a shit browser. Why don’t you go and download Firefox? It’s free, and it’s simple to install. I use Firefox and Opera. I never use IE ever. This site works well in Firefox. Or you can try Opera. It’s lots of fun. I have both Firefox and Opera open at all times. You can always run more than one browser at once if you like.

  12. @D who said latino way of understanding is the right view of seeing race. well actually it kinda isnt. you are trying to say that george lopez, mark sanchez and pitbull all belong to the same race just by looking at them. you are trying to implement nature vs nurture ideology in this conversation but the problem is what you are talking about doesnt have anything to do with the term race but in fact culture. if you talk to latin americans they will tell you a whole other story than latinos in US. they are perfectly aware if they are european or not and how much significance they should add to it in order not to get other people mad by imposing it. from my perspective it is latinos who are being branwashed by US propaganda into thinking they are all the same just because they speak spanish. that they automatically belong to some imaginary “brown race” even if they are not as nearly brown. neglecting the fact that there is no such thing as race based on the skin tone (again only in US) but only terms like caucasoid, mongloid and kongoid(formerly negroid). what you are talking about is a difference between anglo vs latino not latino vs some other racial term.

  13. more relaxed attitude about race: yes but you only view the good of that,aw so cute mexicans have “racial innocence” and thanks to that you usually dont see mexican nazis…but that same attitude of “i dont care about race” makes brown mexicans so passive,i live in mexico and i see most mexicans more native than white(the most common color is different shades of brown,lots of people with high cheekbones,small eyes,so native) but mexico is controled by white people,look at mexican tv,full of white people! with actors like “barbara mori”,”william levy”,”belinda”,”angelique boyer”; our new president “peña nieto” is white too(by the way he won cheating),all the mexican miss universes look more white;and because brown people dont care about race they dont fight against that,unlike in united states where you see how blacks fighted with martin luther king and you see now sucessful black singers and actors,but mexico being a brown majority you usually dont see succesful browns
    -some time ago in mexican tv they said that japanese drawn their anime with big eyes,implying that japanese dont accept themselves,well,japanese also have tv shows with real actors and they look japanese,but in mexican tv you see lots and lots of white people,i wonder who really dont accept himself

    1. Agreed, its sad really; then again the “raza cosmica” was a concept developed by Jose Vasconselos (PRI) to keep the brown man (specially indians) down and under the control of wealthy european families.

      And Peña Nieto is not white, he’s more like castizo, his eyes look somewhat slanted and his skull is brachycephalic. His hair is also very dark, jet black hair is more common among semites than among europeans, so its probably his indian heritage showing.

  14. whats is the white? many people confuse arian and white, the white is big group racial, so this convinations say mix racial this no true, the problem is racist and vilence but racist is the natural condiction, incluse in the white race for example ” war of the under years” the problem is the ignorance the many people

  15. if there’s anything in brazil that makes me glad to have been born here is that there’s very little (and even then, very regionally localized) of any of this racial pride stuff. personally I have japanese ancestors and have “suffered” in my childhood with kid racist jokes and nicknames (no, wait, I actually never even had racist nicknames) but I believe those have always been around since man spread from africa and proceeded to reunify with their now-different-looking relatives, and will probably still be around until we’re all again so mixed that we all look alike. and kids are assholes anyway, so that’s normal. but past that phase it’s all “hey dude, let’s drink some beer and watch football” fun. no discrimination or racism at all, anywhere, ever. except maaaaaybe in those very few regions I mentioned. I don’t actually know, but even then I seriously doubt it’s the kind of virulent racial pride that spurs into racism. hah, I even get to be called dude instead jap where I live since we’re actually quite common around here and things would get confusing quite quickly if everyone called the japanese with racial nicknames. also the japanese racial pride has all but disappeared amongst my generation. we’re all BRs. although maybe the black people who are still really black do get discriminated a bit where I live since they have become so few and far between here, due to mixing and whatnot. but I bet that if they were still common, they’d be treated as equals just how the japanese (and irish and turkish and italian and jewish and russian and german) are. this has gotten long, but as an ending it may be interesting to note that I’ve heard bolivian illegal immigrants, who have become pretty common in a certain district here have been victims of racism, maybe due to their looks which actually manage to be quite different from what we’re used to seeing here, but I bet mostly due to their poverty and usually slave-labour condition. I definitely hope they start get a better treatment soon, as this is quite sad to hear about.

  16. When people mix, non of the genes or traits go away. It means you will get white people from mixed people. There are no traits or genes that are exclusive. You can get black people with literally all the traits a white can have. Light skin, blue/green eyes, non curly hair, everything. The only difference is that its combined with other traits that you deem black…. until it isn’t, then the person is called white which has happened plenty times already. As in a person deemed white but with black parents. Go check dude, you’ll see.


    You can even get black and white twins.

  17. Hi Robert Lindsay,
    The Spanish colonization on the americas were divided in two periods:
    1º Colonial Period: 750.000 spaniards went to America great majority were men.
    2º 1850-1930: The Great Colonization of the Americas 4,6 millions spaniards. Both, men and Women went there, one thing, Argentina was the the country that received the biggest group nearly 2 millions.The great majority chose south-america over Mexico. Due to have more natural resources, I mean, Jobs!!!!!

  18. I’ve got it;
    Modern day WNs/Alt-Righter don’t acknowledge there are any Whites in Latin America because it doesn’t fit the White genocide talking point.
    They can’t rant about Europe when Europeans are harrassing and abusing the lower Native-orders of society in Latin America.
    So, they do mental gymnastics to abondon Latin America Whites as Whites.

    Sometimes I hate my fellow Crackers.
    More evidence Alt-Righters are unintelligent, or demented, or both…

    1. Nativists of the past were Nordicists, and also anti-Irish (and anti-slav) even though they have a light complextion unlike Italians etc..

      1. Having trouble finding your “idiot hat” :)?, trying to think like these people?
        These people aren’t traditional Nordicists. Because of Mestizos, they think all Latin Americans, and some case even the Iberians in Europe, anybody associated with the Spanish or Portuguese languages, in the new world and sometimes in the old, are non-White.

        “Hispanic” is seen as a race. The vast, vast majority will be willing to acknowledge that Spanish are White, and some that a few pure Whites exist in Latin America, but some do not acknowledge either of those points (not acknowledging the latter is part of it).

        The main reason among smarter folks, is what I posted above.
        Stupidity is the reason for less intelligent folks.

  19. No demands for segregation. Latin American Whites don’t demand segregation. There was some segregation in Latin America, especially in Cuba and Ecuador, but it’s long gone. In Cuba, it lasted as long as the Revolution.

    Let’s get real here for a second. What’s behind the demands for segregation? They are about fears of racial annihilation. This is what the fears of race-mixing and miscegenation were all about. But White Latin Americans are already somewhat mixed, so in a sense, they are already an annihilated race. There’s nothing to fear from dilution if you’re already diluted yourself, so there’s no need for segregation. Let the mixing begin!

    Truth be told the shit for brains southern whites brought blacks in to pick cotton. Also, South Africa being eventually overtaken by black tribes was iinevitable.

    Also are u sure it was fear being destroyed, not solely the fear of crime? Again though, all these groups of whites had plenty of time to deport the blacks, but they felt like they helped the economy too much.

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