"Unions, Illegal Immigration, and You," by Alpha Unit

If you knew there was something exerting a downward pressure on working conditions for Americans, wouldn’t you want to do something about it?

Well, there is. And labor unions have been working hard to fix it.

They have been recruiting and organizing illegal immigrants. It is important that these workers be organized, because if they can be taken advantage of and mistreated, so can you. This is the message labor unions in America have been getting out for years now.

An undocumented workforce that’s too afraid to bargain for better working conditions is a boon to big business in this country, according to Teamsters President James Hoffa. When illegal immigrants can’t organize, all workers face downward pressure on their wages.
He urges Congress to create a path for legalization for illegal immigrants.

The AFL-CIO agrees. The organization began formal ties with an association of day laborers several years ago, with hopes of taking pressure off wages paid to local union members.
Change to Win, a coalition of unions that splintered off from the AFL-CIO in 2005, organizes illegal immigrants as well.

One of its affiliated unions is the Laborers International Union of North America (LIUNA), which has been organizing construction workers for over a century. The group believes that immigration reform must:

Protect all workers, whether immigrant or not, with the same strong labor laws, including prevailing wage protections, so that employers cannot use a worker’s status as an excuse to drive down wages and working conditions for all workers.

If you think this is going over well with rank-and-file union members, you can forget it. LIUNA spokespeople admit that a lot of their members don’t like the idea of having illegal immigrants in the union. But union leaders say they have to do what’s necessary to keep the wage floor up. That effects everybody working in America.

Last summer AFL-CIO President Richard Trumka addressed this issue. In a speech he gave in Cleveland, he spoke about the history of immigrant labor in America and about some of the complaints lodged against the immigrant forebears of many union members.

And yet today I hear from working people who should know better, some in my own family – that those immigrants are taking our jobs, ruining our country. Haven’t we been here before?

When I hear that kind of talk, I want to say, did an immigrant move your plant overseas? Did an immigrant take away your pension? Or cut your health care? Did an immigrant destroy American workers’ right to organize? Or crash the financial system? Did immigrant workers write the trade laws that have done so much harm to Ohio?

In discussing the need for what people refer to as comprehensive immigration reform, Trumka talks about what lies at the heart of our failed immigration policy.

Too many U.S. employers actually like the current state of the immigration system – a system where immigrants are both plentiful and undocumented – afraid and available.

The current system provides employers with an endless supply of socially and legally powerless cheap labor, he says.

This is what is driving down working conditions and wages for all American workers, the unions are telling us. Until we get some meaningful immigration reform in this country, these people need to be organized.

What the unions seem to be saying, in summary, is: Look, folks, we didn’t create this immigration mess. But like everybody else, we’ve got to address it and deal with it. We’re here to organize and advocate on behalf of workers. All workers. We’ve got to look out for illegal immigrants in the workforce because it’s the only way, under the circumstances, we can look out for you.

Are there any takers?

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95 thoughts on “"Unions, Illegal Immigration, and You," by Alpha Unit”

  1. The current system provides employers with an endless supply of socially and legally powerless cheap labor, he says.
    This is what is driving down working conditions and wages for all American workers, the unions are telling us. Until we get some meaningful immigration reform in this country, these people need to be organized.

    The unions are lying. Organizing illegals doesn’t mean shit if you don’t cut off the endless supply of them. By their very presence illegals and H1Bs increase the social and legal powerlessness of American workers. We don’t need “immigration reform” we need to ditch NAFTA and STOP illegal immigration and unneeded legal immigration like H1Bs. That is the only way to end “downward pressure on working conditions for Americans.” Until they turn off the immigration spigot and penalize outsourcing, they can raise minimum wage to $30 an hour and corporations can just keep moving jobs overseas.
    We don’t need more workers. We need more jobs. It is an outrage for them to try and sell us this shit when the real unemployment rate is at least 20%. How hard is it to understand that there are not enough jobs for American citizens? Legalizing illegals does nothing to create a job.
    The unions, like the entire left, have been infiltrated by crusading cultural leftists, most of whom have never had a rank and file job in their lives.
    Trumka knows better than this. He actually started out as a coal miner. How dare they try to snow us with that “we’re all immigrants” shit. The country doubled in size and industrialized during the 19th century. This is not 1900. Immigrants were needed then – desperately. They are not needed now and labor knows it.
    We don’t have a failed immigration policy. We have a failed NAFTA, an illegitimate corporatist empire, a failure to guard the border, and a failure to keep businessmen and politicians from bringing in immigrants we don’t currently need.
    Reagan fed us the same shit with the 80s amnesty. It did nothing but increase the deluge.
    If this is what the labor movement has come to, this country is finished.

    1. Hi, I agree with absolutely everything that you said here, La Fleur. Legalize the illegals so we can organize them in unions? Huh? We can’t even organize legal workers in unions. How the Hell are we going to organize the illegals? The illegals have created a mass glut of cheap labor in this country. That’s the problem right there. Legalizing them does nothing to end that glut, in fact, it encourages more of it.
      Further, most all pro-illegal projects are in effect Open Borders projects. Show me on pro-illegal project that is not in effect an Open Borders project.

        1. I think at this point the union hierarchy is thoroughly corrupt and exists mainly to sustain itself, much like the college industrial complex. “Union leader” has become just another profession. They need someone, anyone, to cough up the dues that pay their large salaries. As long as they have new people coming in paying dues, they can afford to accept lousy contracts.
          Reading former SEIU head Andy Stern and others discuss their “union careers” in this Forward article is certainly interesting:
          http://forward.com/articles/105047/
          On a practical level, the labor movement is one of the few progressive causes offering young people both steady work and a reliable institutional structure — in short, a career. Michael Perry, who works for the AFSCME in Illinois, observed: “These are kids like me, who grew up in middle-class life. They won’t go back and work minimum wage. They want to do justice. But I still have a middle-class job here — with decent wages and benefits.”
          Perhaps becoming a union organizer is the way forward, eh?
          I understand they need to make a living, but the professionalization and neoliberalization of left activism is a bit of a joke. For all their desire to “do justice” they don’t seem to care much for actual working class American citizens. They’ve also basically bought into the Ponzi scheme nature of the US economy.
          The LA Times has uncovered significant corruption in Stern’s SEIU:
          http://www.openleft.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=7427
          California’s largest union local and a related charity have paid hundreds of thousands of dollars to firms owned by the wife and mother-in-law of the labor organization’s president, documents and interviews show.
          The Los Angeles-based union, which represents low-wage caregivers, also spent nearly $300,000 last year on a Four Seasons Resorts golf tournament, a Beverly Hills cigar club, restaurants such as Morton’s steakhouse and a consulting contract with the William Morris Agency, the Hollywood talent shop, records show.
          In addition, the union paid six figures to a video firm whose principals include a former union employee. And a now-defunct minor league basketball team coached by the president’s brother-in-law received $16,000 for what the union described as public relations, according to the union’s U.S. Labor Department filings and interviews.
          Most of the 160,000 people represented by the union, a local chapter of the nation’s fastest-growing labor organization, the Service International Employees Union, earn $9 an hour or slightly more tending to the infirm and disabled in private homes under taxpayer-funded programs. The workers, whose dues fill the local’s coffers, often are described as “the poor caring for the poor.”

          I think this provides at least a partial answer to why the unions are so gung-ho in organizing illegal immigrants. I’ve always been pro-union, but the rot at the top is pretty disgusting.

        1. I like this kid. Gingers are a breed apart. Kinda like albinos. That he can turn it into a metaphor for race relations is a high form art. And he’s probably making serious Youtube bucks. 50k a year, given Youtube’s compensation arrangement. Not bad for a teen. How much U make a year buddy?

        2. There’s something strange about this kids face. I almost want to say he’s got some central asian in him. His face just has this odd look to it. He’s got some white features, but in some ways he almost looks asiatic. Could he be related to Bjork?

        3. “A little Hungarian maybe.”
          Quite possibly. He looks like a eurasian that leans far to the caucasian side. Sort of the reverse of the central asians who lean to the mongoloid side. Hungarian is a definite possibily. He doesn’t look slavic to me. It’s just overwhelming how his face is so big and his eyes are so small. It’s the face of a horse rider.

    2. Bitch wants to have her cake and eat it too?
      The feminist unemployed bitch who is too good for teaching, has the
      opportunities for employment, yet simply wants to the priviledge of
      bitching on the internet? Bitch, bitch, bitch.
      Wow. Those can do, those who can’t teach, those who can’t teach, bitch.

      1. Oh, did Ladything say something?
        There are no jobs here in Michigan, you vile, ignorant cunt hole. The thing is, I’m not just talking about myself. I’m talking about the entire American working class. But you know that, don’t you, you rootless cocksucker?
        As for me, I’d move, but my parents are old and I’ll take care of them until they die. I’d farm the commons, but that isn’t allowed, so I just have a garden and work on practical skills and odd jobs. Under the table, FTW. If ya can’t beat ’em, join ’em.
        Yes, you cankerous twat, I am too good to teach the Children of the Corn in the shit-horrible US school system. Much too good. It exists solely to crank out docile, indoctrinated cogs and serve as free babysitting. Teach to the test, my ass. There’s no way I’ll end up like Detroit school teachers, often verbally and physically assaulted, who attempt to teach and grade honestly only to be told it’s their fault if disinterested students won’t learn. I’ve heard the horror stories about Teach for America. Fuck that shit.
        I’m also too good to pick lettuce with Nezua’s cousins for bubkes. They don’t take well to whitey moving in on their territory anyway. I’d do it if it paid a livable wage, but it doesn’t, so I’ll happily fiddle while Rome burns. The fault is with the slaveowners, not with those who don’t want to join the Helots in their slavery.
        Feminist? Sure, I’m a moderate feminist. But economics comes first. I am loyal to the people I come from.
        I’ll probably go back to school, but am leery about taking on onerous student loans while the college bubble continues to inflate. The question is, with outsourcing and H1Bs wrecking wages in formerly decent professions, what course of study is worth taking in The United States of Libertardia? I could go to law school, but even that work is being outsourced and proletarianized. Taking on non-dischargeable student loan debt in America right now is throwing shit at the wall and hoping it sticks. ESL or teaching adults is still a possibility, though. I’m in no rush.
        Anyway, you can’t even get into a community college cooking course around here right now. Desperate forty and fifty-somethings are crowding every course, trying perhaps in vain to reinvent themselves. The college industrial complex continues to promise a lot more than it can give. I’m waiting for it to shake out a bit. There is no shame in finding it difficult to decide a course of action in a country so unmoored from economic reality.
        I’ll be all right. I don’t make much money, but I get by. I do take a certain comfort in the fact that I don’t pay taxes to support this shit. Every downtick in the tax base brings the Chenga tower that much closer to collapse. I’ll get a house of my own the old fashioned way. When my parents croak. Allah be praised!
        So I bitch on the internet. So what? At least I’m not pretentious enough to call that activism like your typical CRT twat. I enjoy working the room here. Thanks, Rob! I’ll be here all week!
        The funny thing about the CRT twats is that once they start creaming their jeans over internationalism, the constant Manichean focus on black vs. white magically disappears. How the black working class is supposed to compete with the vibrant Chicanitos is never discussed.
        Thanks, though, asshole, for illustrating why the Diversitards and Corporate fascists walk hand in hand. You are loyal to no one and nothing.
        Keep riding Tom Friedman’s pornstache, Ladything. Confucius say die in a fire, you rootless, neoliberal piece of shit.

        1. “you rootless, neoliberal piece of shit.”
          All word play, no numbers. This is this the idiocy you get from high verbal, low math people.

        2. The funny thing about the CRT twats is that once they start creaming their jeans over internationalism, the constant Manichean focus on black vs. white magically disappears. How the black working class is supposed to compete with the vibrant Chicanitos is never discussed.

          Yeah, as you’ve pointed out before, once Hispanic labor is brought up, black people magically disappear from the conversation. It’s not mentioned that they too don’t like doing shit jobs for little pay. They make white people out to be the only ones not willing to “do jobs Americans won’t do.”
          So I bitch on the internet. So what? At least I’m not pretentious enough to call that activism like your typical CRT twat.
          Hehe, well said, Lafleur.
          Sorry, I can’t hear you with Ayn Rand’s dick in your mouth.
          LOL! Ayn Rand doesn’t exactly have a dick, but your meaning is understood nonetheless.

        3. “LOL! Ayn Rand doesn’t exactly have a dick, but your meaning is understood nonetheless.”
          Hey Bag, what’s your interpretation. I’d like to hear it.

        4. Hey Bag, what’s your interpretation. I’d like to hear it.
          Ayn Rand was a writer/thinker who created the ideology known as objectivism.
          Basically, objectivism preaches extreme selfishness and individualism. She’s very popular in economically libertarian circles.
          Lafleur’s basically calling you a rootless, self-centered elitist.

        5. “Lafleur’s basically calling you a rootless, self-centered elitist.”
          OK. That’s a fair interpretation. Can’t think too straight right now, I’m a little drunk. But, Ayn Rand has nothing to do with me being what I am.
          I mostly think for myself. I don’t really think Ayn Rand would say anything interesting. BTW, how can anyone NOT be rootless in 2011. It’s a conceit to think otherwise. And I’m not any more self-centered than that ridiculous bitch. LOL. No job, bitchin, livin’ on stolen land, waiting for her inheritance. Now THAT’s selfish. But in fairness, I think La Fleur is just reacting to the State of the Nation.

        6. LOL! Ayn Rand doesn’t exactly have a dick, but your meaning is understood nonetheless.
          I know. That’s part of the joke, dear. 🙂

        7. “BTW, how can anyone NOT be rootless in 2011. It’s a conceit to think otherwise…. livin’ on stolen land”
          Typical garbage out of these types. If everone is rootless then how can any land be stolen? If everyone is rootless then how are immigrants from Europe any different than earlier immigrants from Asia?
          “Thanks, though, asshole, for illustrating why the Diversitards and Corporate fascists walk hand in hand.”
          While I agree with this statement in general, I don’t think it applies in this situation. Non-whites are not diversitards. Many are just corporate fascists. The may say that they hate big business and such, but really just hate big business that they view as being owned by whites. If you actually look at some of the non-whites the left praises so much they are not really all that leftist economically. For example, how many blacks do yoiu know that will impulse buy and spend on the most useless frivolous things just because they want to make themselves look rich. Gold chains, gold teeth, etc. Many are not really revolutionary against capitalism, they’re just mad that they aren’t on top. They like capitalism but lack capital, but because of a lot of 60s era propaganda they get credited as being against the system. I remeber a rap video a few years back with Lil’ Wayne where he is wearing a Che Guevara t-shirt and wearing a gold chain. Gold chains scream of communism. ( Of course, what was Che Guevara any way? A white boy from Argentina. Had his ancestors moved to North America instead of South America he would have been called an imperialist cracker by all the leftist who fawn over him so much.) So here we have the absurdity of post sixties leftism: a decadent black guy in gold chains is an emblem of the capitalist system and is seen by leftists as being some sort leftist hero, while the white man in his denim overalls is seen as being some sort of evil gnome. It starts to make sense once we consider the fact that the post 60s left is composed of the upper classes and their lackeys. After all, who was the main force behind the union movement in this country? Not blacks. Not south americans. Not indians. It was whitey. Amazingly, one of the few decent jews of the past hundred years was involved, Samuel Gompers. When did the Gompers give way to the Krystols?
          As far as Hacienda is concerned, I wouldn’t mind him too much. I think that these anti-white East Asian nationalists who live in the US are a funny lot. I’ve heard many chastise whites by saying that the East Asians work longer for less. I think they’re trying to impress us or make us feel bad, but all I can think is that that sounds moronic. Aren’t they supposed to be the smart ones? Haven’t they ever heard the phrase “work smarter, not harder”? If they want to undermine american labor and have big american companies exploiting the shit out of them then I guess that their business. I just think that the products they make should be subject to tariffs.

        8. “If everone is rootless then how can any land be stolen? If everyone is rootless then how are immigrants from Europe any different than earlier immigrants from Asia?”
          On the surface this seems like a nice tight syllogism. A little thought shows a number of holes in it. As I stated in 2011, everyone is rootless. But this doesn’t mean the natives were rootless. So from their perspective and the still existing tribals in the US, it is “stolen land”.
          Again, one more time. For what it’s worth, I’m NOT an Asian nationalist. Any time whitey gets a little blowback from non-whites doesn’t mean that they are being confronted with Asian nationalism.
          Deal with it.

        9. ” As I stated in 2011, everyone is rootless. But this doesn’t mean the natives were rootless”
          I can agree with this to a point. Of course, many of the native americans on the plains were nomads. The idea of rootedness in an area was probably mostly alien to them. Of course the concept of rootedness is biased toward sedentary people. Traditionally nomadic people have clashed with sedentary people in this way for eons. Centuries ago, nomads like the mongols and turks won out. In modern times, the last nomads are being tamed. Few still exist and they constantly but into the borders of modern states.
          As far as no one being rooted, I don’t totally agree. This is seems to be largely true in most of North America (with the exception of native groups and possibly Quebec), but that does not mean that other parts of the world have lost their roots.

        10. BAG: Yeah, as you’ve pointed out before, once Hispanic labor is brought up, black people magically disappear from the conversation. It’s not mentioned that they too don’t like doing shit jobs for little pay. They make white people out to be the only ones not willing to “do jobs Americans won’t do.”
          Yes, I wonder where the tension between the two groups, especially within the Democratic Party, is going to wind up.
          This seems to be kind of a conservative website, but there are a lot of interesting statistics and quotes in this article:
          http://www.city-journal.org/2008/18_1_blacks_and_immigration.html
          A case study of Los Angeles janitorial services cited in a Government Accounting Office report captures the enormity of the shift. It began in the late 1970s, as several small firms began hiring Mexican janitors at low pay, prompting building owners to drop contracts with the companies that employed blacks in favor of the cheaper upstarts. As the immigrant-dominated firms grabbed more business, industry wages slipped from a peak of $6.58 an hour in 1983 to $5.63 an hour in 1985. The number of black janitors in L.A. plummeted from about 2,500 in the late 1970s to only 600 by 1985. Today, the city’s janitorial industry, like apparel manufacturing and hotel services, is almost entirely immigrant.
          Former mechanic Anderson felt the effects of low-wage immigrant competition in his old line of work. “I used to sell parts to body shops, and I knew Americans who were making $20 an hour repairing dented fenders,” he says. “Now, 95 percent of South Central L.A. body-shop jobs are held by recent immigrants making $7 or $8 an hour.” Says Joe Hicks, former chair of Los Angeles’s Human Relations Commission and now head of the nonprofit Community Advocates: “It’s hard to find a black face on a construction site or in a fast-food restaurant around here any more. People from the black community have noticed.”

          Furthermore:
          This battle over quotas for public-sector jobs is a glaring example of how immigration is turning the race-based policies of the last 40 years, originally designed to help blacks, against them. For African-American leaders like Claud Anderson, head of the Harvest Institute, the turnabout represents a betrayal of the civil rights movement: only blacks deserve quotas. “When did our government ever exclude immigrants or deny them their constitutional rights, as they did African-Americans?” he asks.
          I don’t remember reading about this in White Like Me:
          In a 2006 study that ten academic researchers conducted of various racial groups’ attitudes in Durham, North Carolina, 59 percent of Latino immigrants said that few or no blacks were hardworking, and 57 percent said that few or no blacks could be trusted. By contrast, only 9 percent of whites said that blacks weren’t hardworking, and only 10 percent said that they couldn’t be trusted. Interestingly, the survey found that blacks were broadly well-disposed toward Hispanics, though how long that will be true remains to be seen.

        11. “I don’t remember reading about this in White Like Me”
          Yeah, White Like Me also doesn’t talk about black criminals specifically targeting illegal immgrants becuase they know they only get paid in cash.
          I bet that a signifigant numbers of white americans would jump at the chance to express hatred for their own kind while fawning over ghetto trash. Most white americans are completely disgusting philosemitic morons. I am actually begining to hope for their destruction after reading so much philosemitic pro-capitalist garbage everyday in a multitude of places. Maybe I can just move to the hills and everyone else can be shot.

        12. And I’m not any more self-centered than that ridiculous bitch. LOL. No job
          There’s nothing self-centered about not being able to find a full-time job in Michigan. How edifying to hear Mr. Think For Himself sound like Sharron Angle. God bless the bringers of vengeance politics. I fill out applications all the time, but so far, no dice. In any event, I don’t get any government benefits like unemployment, so what’s it to you?
          bitchin
          So’s Millie Jackson.
          livin’ on stolen land
          This is such a stupid, Tim Wise-level argument. Whitey stole America from the Indians, therefore we must atone for that sin by never enforcing any borders, ever. Allowing illegals to turn the entire country into a third world hellhole does nothing to remedy what was done to the Indians.
          Robert laid waste to the Aztlan myth here:
          http://robertlindsay.wordpress.com/2011/01/25/who-were-the-first-residents-of-los-angeles/
          If Tim Wise or anyone else cares so goddamn much about the Indians, they should be working with people at Pine Ridge and other poor reservations, not trying to bring in slaves from freakin’ Jalisco as some sort of substitute atonement. What the fuck? As if one group of POC is easily interchangeable with another! It’s just mind-bogglingly stupid.
          If they want to help the darling Chicanitos, repeal NAFTA so they can stay home, which many of them would probably prefer. But then cultural lefties couldn’t use them to punish the white proles. They’d rather see the illegals trash America, than let them live a nice life in Mexico.
          The illegal invasion does nothing but provide cheap slave labor and give SWPLs and their melanin-gifted equivalents the opportunity for moral grandstanding. It’s sort of the cultural lefty equivalent of the spite voting of reactionaries in that Mark Ames eXile article that Wade linked to. The cultural lefties want to stick it to whitey more than they actually want to help the POC, like the black working class, who need help. Insane.
          waiting for her inheritance
          It’s just a fucking 1500 square foot house. I thank God I’ll have somewhere to live.
          All word play, no numbers. This is this the idiocy you get from high verbal, low math people.
          Then what do you expect from low verbal, low math mestizos, Mr. Sailer? A good deal on lawn care?
          Funny how the only number you’ve come up with is saying bitch eighteen times. Must be that low Asian creativity. (Just kidding, fpy.) If you’ve got any solid data or analysis to add, we’ve yet to see it here.
          You just sound like a libertarian with a boner for settling a few psychic scores with whitey. Not necessarily a raging boner like Nezua’s. Perhaps just a Hollywood loaf. A few fantasies of vengeance politics to spice up the invisible hand job. Fairly common cultural lefty stuff.

        13. “Then what do you expect from low verbal, low math mestizos, Mr. Sailer? A good deal on lawn care?”
          LOL
          “You just sound like a libertarian with a boner for settling a few psychic scores with whitey. Not necessarily a raging boner like Nezua’s.”
          Maybe it’s just not as big.

        14. ” Under the table, FTW. If ya can’t beat ‘em, join ‘em.”
          Exactly. This is the problem with the middle class of this country. A lot of the poor don’t obey the law. None of the rich obey the law. The middle class insists on obeying every law to the letter, and of course, they want to punish those who don’t. Of course, rarely do they go after the rich. Apparently Soloman Finkelstein gyping people out of their houses and ruining the economy isn’t nearly as bad a Jamal in the projects smoking a doobie. I swear to god, if you put coal in these people’s assholes in the morning, you’d have a diamond that night. People should loosen up. Drink a beer. Read a book (something challenging, not Harry Potter). Not paying taxes on money from odd jobs is an act of rebellion. Why should I have to report twenty dollars from mowing a relatives grass when some rich asshole escapes taxes with an offshore account.
          “I’ll be all right. I don’t make much money, but I get by.”
          That’s my philosophy. The corporations don’t like it though. You need to BUY! BUY! BUY!
          ” I do take a certain comfort in the fact that I don’t pay taxes to support this shit.”
          At one point when I was looking for a job I seriously considered joining the military. I should have rejected the option right off because my main reservation was that I hate almost everything the US government does. I’m sure as hell glad I didn’t follow through.

        15. “You just sound like a libertarian with a boner for settling a few psychic scores with whitey. Not necessarily a raging boner like Nezua’s. Perhaps just a Hollywood loaf. A few fantasies of vengeance politics to spice up the invisible hand job. Fairly common cultural lefty stuff.”
          Big deal. Every colored person on this planet has a score to settle with whitey. Even some whiteys have scores to settle with whitey. It’s not news “whitey”. And every colored person gets what I’m talking about. You’re just “in denial”.
          I’m mainstream. I like guys like Trumpka because he’s a white realist, a unusual but fine creature. He sees the “writing on the wall”. Internationalism is here to stay, no amount of Midwestern foot stomping changes that. And some things just work, because they have to work. An international workers union just sounds so right. If you were in California, where white workers are in full retreat and the rest are just treading water, you’d see that.

        16. “Every colored person on this planet has a score to settle with whitey”
          Pure garbage. Do you have a score to settle with nippy (the japs)? Most countries have absolutely no right to whine about colonialism. Their own leaders were involved in it heavily. There are even sane africans who have come out and said that Africa’s problems have more to do with the actions of africans than europeans. (http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/view/72207)The whole “you owe us for colonialism” scheme is pure bullshit. Even peoples that were never colonied by the europeans (Thais, Japs, Koreans, Ethiopians, Turks, Iranians, Saudi Arabians,…) have tried to get in on various aspects of it in the past. Get over it. (Actually, this last statement is not specific enough becasue many coloreds have NOTHING to get over because NOTHING was ever done to them.)
          On a tangential topic….Has anyone ever demanded and apology and reparations from Mongolia for the actions of Genghis Khan? I’d think that the Persians would get a fat check for that. The Russians too.
          Or for that matter, what about Tamerlane? I guess Turkey should be doling out reparations too. Maybe Mali should be giving out what little money it has as reparations for slavery during the times of the Malian Empire.
          You need to get over your (ironically) eurocentric worldview.

        17. And some things just work, because they have to work. An international workers union just sounds so right.
          Finally, some of that good old high math IQ analysis. And they say chicks are ruled by their feelings.
          You’ll notice the stats about black folks pass unremarked. If it ends up being Asians who benefit from white guilt over blacks and Indians, no biggie, right? They’s all colored folks. At least Tim Wise can sleep easy.
          If nothing else, this forum has proven to me beyond a doubt that the CRTs are every bit as dumb and short sighted as the dumbest teabaggers.
          That’s cool. Spite voting is a game everyone can play.
          I’m with you, Wade. I’m just gonna settle in with some popcorn and watch the show. It is well with my soul. Laisser les bons temps rouler!

        18. “Pure garbage. Do you have a score to settle with nippy (the japs)?”
          No, no, no. I pretty sure all colored folks of sound mind and sound body do have a “score” to settle with whitey. The weight of 20th C. geo-politics is clear on the evidence. Malcom X, Ho Chi Min, Mao, Gandhi, the House of Saud, the FLN, so many more. Doesn’t mean they “hate whitey”, only they all have a kind of “score” to settle.
          All colored peoples are 1-2 generations removed from white de-colonization, but they have the “smell of victory”, conditioned responses, as well as natural race-centric reactions. Just as whitey does in their own way. Personally, I’ve always tended to root for black-brown liberation movements, there’s a connection there. Just as blacks and browns tended to look to Asian liberation movements as a source of inspiration. The undercurrent is that whitey is the lame-ass, the book reading, code throwing, machine integrated man-machine with the latest gun. Half man half computer. A mass of rules, codes, C++ directives, IEE references. Bill Gates with his finger on the button. LOL. It’s not hard to decide whose side you need to be on, if you are colored.
          “You need to get over your (ironically) eurocentric worldview.”
          I agree that recent history shouldn’t trump distant history. But we’re talking about scales and magnitude differences, it goes deeper that mere history of the planet the last two millenium.

        19. “No, no, no. I pretty sure all colored folks of sound mind and sound body do have a “score” to settle with whitey. The weight of 20th C. geo-politics is clear on the evidence. Malcom X, Ho Chi Min, Mao, Gandhi, the House of Saud, the FLN, so many more”
          Last time I checked Ho Chi Minh fought the japs too, and after america left the Vietnamese had to fight off a chinese land grab. Mao also had to fight the japs. So did Chiang Kai-Shek. There were Indians in the past who were very pro-british. Also, Ghandi was assasinated by an Indian. I have no sympathy for Algerians. Before they were conquered they were taking slaves all over the Med and as far north as Iceland.
          I also notice that CRTs tend to ignore the libertaions in Europe. The Balkans being liberated from Turkish rule was one of the greatest events of the past 200 years. It’s just too bad that liberation didn’t continue into Anatolia where the turks muredered the Pontic Greeks, the Armenians, and the Assyrians. They have have also stolen part of Cyprus and they still occupy Antioch. The turks were also imperialists in the arabs countries, but I don’t see any one going after them for reparations or apologies, except for the Armenians. The story of anti-colonialism in the Balkans is full of great men and brave warriors. Skanderbeg, Janos Hunyadi, Constantine Paleologos, Vlad the Impaler, etc. The Irish are a great story too. They got thumped worse than many of the coloreds in the British Empire. Outside of Europe, the Boers were heroic anti-colonialists and at the same time colonial settlers. The hate whitey worldview is narrow minded and unhistorical. Why should Indians hate Sweden because they were colonized by Britain? How about attacks from other non whites? The mongols are said the honor a russian baron who fought on the white side in the Russian civil war because he dislodged the Chinese and later fought communism in Mongolia. Then of course, there’s non-whte colonialism like the Chinese in Taiwan or the Japanese in Hokkaido. Another example could be the Bantu Expansion theory.
          “The undercurrent is that whitey is the lame-ass, the book reading, code throwing, machine integrated man-machine with the latest gun. Half man half computer. A mass of rules, codes, C++ directives, IEE references.”
          Actually, that sounds like a sterotypical image of east asians.
          “I agree that recent history shouldn’t trump distant history. But we’re talking about scales and magnitude differences, ”
          What magnitude differences? Tamerlane is estimated to have killed around 17 million people, most of whom were not white. He probably killed more non-whites than Hitler by a signifigant magnitude. The Indian ocean slave trade was actually larger and longer lasting than the transatlantic trade.
          I have no problem with people hating colonialists, but that does not translate into hating white people who were not involved in colonialism. Also, claims about colonialism tend to get exaggerated. Compare the length of the colonial period of british and french rule in the Levant with that of Turkey. It’s a lot shorter.
          It also ridiculous that those that benefitted from colonialism now hate whitey, or are really whities themselves. People like Rick Sanchez and our “favorite” commenter SojournerTroof are the most disgusting hypocrites. Their anscestors have been involved in conquest and slavery in Latin American for centures, but when the come north they become these rabid anti-whites and anti-colonialist. They’re colored by convenience.
          “All colored peoples are 1-2 generations removed from white de-colonization, but they have the “smell of victory”, conditioned responses, as well as natural race-centric reactions”
          I guess you could make a similar argument for the Serbs. They got independence from the Ottomans and Hapsburgs, bu then were invaded by the nazis just a few decades ago. There are still squatters on their land as we speak.
          “No, no, no.”
          And why is it that the japs should be forgiven and not other imperialists?
          The crimes of the jews in Israel should not be blamed on us either. Israel is not an outpost of western colonialism. It’s an outpost of jewish racism and violence.
          “Doesn’t mean they “hate whitey”, only they all have a kind of “score” to settle.”
          Sounds like it would make for some good role playing. I need to get me a colored girl and have her liberate some semen from my imperialist nuts.

        20. Also, you can;t ignore the things that non whites have done to each other. Have you ever heard what happened to the arabs on Zanzibar?

        21. “Last time I checked Ho Chi Minh fought the japs too…”
          Hey, I’m not saying that there aren’t other scores to be settled out there just waiting to happen. When the time comes, the Chinese are gonna settle with Japan, BIG TIME. LOL. As the Chinese will with a whole lot of other peoples- Russians, Indians, the English. Although, I think the way Anglo countries are pretty much putting the gun to their own heads, the Chinese won’t have to bother. Anglo suicide? Be my guest.

        22. @ Wade
          Excellent comment. Indeed, those who believe in the whole “whites are uniquely evil and oppressive” myth tend to analyze world history from (very ironically) a eurocentric worldview.
          As someone who’s studied world history (East Asian history), I can tell you that the various non-white races have a ton of blood on their hands.
          The only reason why white crimes are so obsessed over and given so much attention is because they are more modern and more well documented.
          White diseases killing of American Indians and American Indians dying in the process of warfare and conquest is ipso facto genocide, but the millions who died in Europe as a result of the black death (spread by conquering Mongol hordes) isn’t.
          And yes, Wade, I too get pissed off at white Hispanics who deny their whiteness. These white Hispanics are elites back in their countries of origin, but play the whole “oppressed person of color” card when it’s convenient.
          @ Hacienda
          Although, I think the way Anglo countries are pretty much putting the gun to their own heads, the Chinese won’t have to bother. Anglo suicide? Be my guest.
          No argument from me there. I’ve said this many times before, but whites have lost their balls, and have even developed a suicidal complex in many ways.
          Although, these anglo countries are also the most Jewified, which explains the higher levels of multicult madness and anti-white attitudes.

        23. Also, claims about colonialism tend to get exaggerated.
          Exactly.
          The Mongols, Turks, and other non-white groups throughout history ruled people for centuries. No problem there.
          But if Europeans or white Americans happen to rule over a region for just a hundred years (as was the case of most African countries, the Transatlantic slave trade notwithstanding, and which African kingdoms/states willingly participated in), or even just a few decades, then that colonialism is particularly vicious and responsible for all the problems in 3rd world countries.

        24. ” (as was the case of most African countries, the Transatlantic slave trade notwithstanding, and which African kingdoms/states willingly participated in), ”
          Depends on where you’re talking about. For a very long time european control was largely confined mostly to coastal areas. What slave raiding was done in the interior was done by other africans. South Africa was penetrated earlier, but some of the groups there now weren’t there then. There were Khoi groups, but there were not Zulus in the original afrikaner areas, ever. Many of those group arrived later. The zulus weren’t even in the same state with the Afrikaners until the British decided to incorporate them into the Union of South Africa. Much of the rest of the interior of the contenent was untouched by the white man until late in the colonial era. Some areas, like Ethiopia and part of Somalia, actually repelled european invaders, yet they are still in the shitter for the most part. Eastern to central north africa was held by the turks for a long time, but no one wants to talk about that. It’s only the period after europeans conquered western north africa and stopped the Barbary slave raiders that everyone wants to concentrate on. No one wants to mention that much of european colonialism was through indirect rule and wouldn’t have been possible without the native rulers.
          Here’s an interesting article, although it’s not the best source:
          http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/africa/features/storyofafrica/9chapter2.shtml
          From the article:
          “SLAVERY DECREED BY THE GODS
          In 1807, Britain declared all slave trading illegal. The king of Bonny (in what is now the Nigerian delta) was dismayed at the conclusion of the practice.
          “We think this trade must go on. That is the verdict of our oracle and the priests. They say that your country, however great, can never stop a trade ordained by God himself.””
          You won’t see that in US textbooks.

        25. Wade, BAG,
          If you guys want to live in Anglo LaLa Land, you are free too. It’s a happy place, I used to live there too, still do in a way. As a colored man I have NO interest in bursting that bubble. LOL.
          I still watch the occassional Hollywood movie, although ALL Hollywood movies are parodic comedies to me now. I especially like white consumerism. It pays me. And I don’t mean as an Asian, but as a businessman who sells things to the American consumer.
          Colored revenge is real. But it’s not the only thing on this planet. LOL.

        26. If you guys want to live in Anglo LaLa Land, you are free too.”
          Okay, whatever. It’s just amazing that on this site I’ve been called both nordicist and bigoted towards northern europeans. I’ve been called anti-american and anti-british, but now I’m apparently living in anglo lala land. Oh well whatever. If you want to live in your fantasy world where yoiu think that east asians rule everything that fines. Just make sure yoiu keep curning out cheap plastic junk or the whitey or jap who owns the factory will be mad.
          “I especially like white consumerism. It pays me. And I don’t mean as an Asian, but as a businessman who sells things to the American consumer. ”
          Okay Kim Jung Finkelstein. Money, money, money. I’m sure the local casino will sure be happy.
          Colored revenge is real. But it’s not the only thing on this planet. LOL.

        27. “Okay, whatever. It’s just amazing that on this site I’ve been called both nordicist and bigoted towards northern europeans. I’ve been called anti-american and anti-british, but now I’m apparently living in anglo lala land. ”
          Funny that. But it’s a big world with lots of opinions. I’ve been called tall by short guys. Short by tall guys. Brilliant by smart guys, heh. Stupid by stupid people. Or maybe it’s the other way around. There are golfers for golf courses, horses for tracks. This blog is unusual for being able to handle lots of opinions. It’s just the degree of strangeness and alienation of the people on this blog is beginning to register with me.
          Anyway, I like 95% of your commentary, for what that’s worth.

        28. ” It’s just the degree of strangeness and alienation of the people on this blog is beginning to register with me. ”
          Yeah, I couldn’t blog anywhere too mainstream. I’ve also given up on having any real effect on society. Almost everyone is too bland. Most of the people who aren’t really bland are just violent and mental. The internet is neat in the fact that you don’t have to reveal your identity and there is usually no editor. It allows people to be unrestrained with humor and opinions in a way that would be used against them in mainstream society. I real life I’m usually pretty quiet and normal around people I don’t know. Most people in real life seem dead mentally and emotionally. Latinos may be more “expressive” than most others, but they seem skin deep. It’s great how the internet gets shut-ins talking to shut-ins.
          “Anyway, I like 95% of your commentary, for what that’s worth”
          I like a lot of your commentary too, even if I don’t always agree with it. I like most people on here who aren’t self-righteous white people who think they’re some persecuted non-white minority and go around the internet posting under the names of old black activists because they’re total losers. I even like Gay State Girl, even though I think I’ve totally alienated her. Some of my comments and humor have gone a little over the top…okay, a lot over the top. The only thing that really gets me here is the extreme philosemitism of certain commetner and administrators.
          “Funny that. But it’s a big world with lots of opinions. I’ve been called tall by short guys. Short by tall guys. Brilliant by smart guys, heh. Stupid by stupid people. Or maybe it’s the other way around.”
          Yes. It’s a type of parallax error. When a person is so far off in an area, people in the middle can seem like extremists for the other side.

      2. “LOL! Ayn Rand doesn’t exactly have a dick, but your meaning is understood nonetheless”
        She’s like Ann Coulter. She doesn’t have a dick, but she sure as hell has an Adam’s Apple.

        1. I like most people on here who aren’t self-righteous white people who think they’re some persecuted non-white minority and go around the internet posting under the names of old black activists because they’re total losers.
          Would you be referring to Mr. “Troof”?
          The only thing that really gets me here is the extreme philosemitism of certain commetner and administrators.
          If you’re referring to Robert, he can be a bit philo-Semitic at times. At the same time, he has harsh words for Jews every now and then. He’s a bit inconsistent in this regard, in addition to other views.
          True, I can be as well, but you’ll never hear me call myself a philo-Semite or anti-racist.
          (Robert, this isn’t meant as an attack at all. I actually like your fluctuating views. Liberal Race Realism must be a fun ideology!)
          His originality and randomness is one of the main reasons I come here.
          With regards to philo-Semitic commenters, you don’t see too many here. Gay State Girl, while Jewish, is willing to hear us out when it comes to our critiques of Jews.
          Uncle Milton may be slightly philo-Semitic to a certain extent, but not really.

        2. “Would you be referring to Mr. “Troof”?”
          Yes. White Latin Americans piss me off about as much as the jews most of the time. There ancestors did more shit to a larger amount of other people over a longer period of time, and yet, not only are they considered a victim group, they actually go around talking about their “opression”. (a la Rick Sanchez. Honestly, I don’t know if it’s make up, but this guy is whiter than me.) The started slavery earlier and many ended it later. (Puerto Rico 1873, Cuba 1886, Brazil 1888 for example) Hell, Castro even called Sanchez types who fled Cuba “worms”. I can’t remember the spanish term for it. (Gusanos, I think)

        3. “He’s a bit inconsistent in this regard, in addition to other views. ”
          Yeah, I think I’m inconsistent about 1/3rd of the time when I’m not bullshitting. I don’t think in axiomatic systems.

    1. “Sorry for being so cranky, Alpha”
      Don’t apologize to her for anything. Everything you said was right in tone and content. Articles like this are one of the reasons I have a hard time trusting non-white leftists. They say the want to help lower class people, but really they preserve and expand minority privelege programs. It’s odd. We’re told that the immigrants don’t send jobs overseas or immigrants don’t affect workers rights to organize. However, the same characters will turn around and tell us how a white man who grew up in a company town in Appalachia or a poor farmer on the praries is the recipient of the ever valuable ‘white privelege’. His white privelege allows him to control entire continents of non-whites and exploit them for billions, and at the same time he can’t pay the mortgage or provide well for his family. Funny how that works. I think the next time I get something from the student loan company I’ll just send them back a stub with “white privilege” written in the payment amount. Our trillions should be enough to cover it.
      Also, it’s amazing how many of these leftist leaders have become such pussies. Look at this drivel:
      “Too many U.S. employers actually like the current state of the immigration system – a system where immigrants are both plentiful and undocumented – afraid and available”
      And the solution to this is to undermine native-born workers? Why not fine and pester the corporate vampires into submission, or shoot them. This guy sounds like a slighty modified Reaganite.
      “but I’m in the rust belt”
      Do you mind if I ask where in the rust belt? I

  2. I’ve seen both sides of the argument, I’ve considered them carefully, and I’m buying what the Unions are selling.
    Illegel immigration has gone down by half in the last 3 yrs…the immigrants don’t get to take advantage of the tax-funded benefits legal residents enjoy, like police, emt, food stamps, education, and having bank accounts and investments, yet illegals often willingly pay income tax.
    Illegal immigrant workforces drive down wages and that effects all levels of wages. If Uncle Sam **can’t** keep them out (they’ve been doing everything possible to try) then let them organize and get better pay—to say no to this is IMO just letting your resentment for furriners trump your self-interest.
    It’s much more expensive for the illegal Mexican/whatever to stay and work here than it is for a legal immigrant. We need to streamline and make the immigration process more efficient and less expensive.
    It’s expensive even by our standards and often takes years.
    I liken this argument to saying we shouldn’t give condoms to teens because it encourages them to have sex. They’re going to have sex anyway.
    They’re going to sneak over here anyway.
    Illegals have a much lower crime rate than legals.
    Illegals don’t collect unemployment, so they don’t burden the system in that respect…they work.
    The minimum wage needs to be raised…to $10 an hour. And it needs to be policed. It needs to have teeth. Employers need to be policed for illegals on their workforce.
    We have high unemployment because of the employers, not the workers.
    The employers are sitting on 2 trillion in assets, waiting out things instead of hiring. Also the employers are squeezing the scared workers for every nano-calorie of work they can get, doubling workloads and increasing productivity to stave off having to rehire.
    Obama deserves alot the criticism he’s getting, but he told the truth in this respect in front of the worthless bastards chamber of commerce. I hate those f**kers.
    Everyone here is entitled to their opinion, mine is that the illegals should be organized to raise wages.

    1. Dano,
      Illegel immigration has gone down by half in the last 3 yrs…
      There’s no way that the number of illegal immigrants have been cut in half in the past 3 years…where are you getting your figures. They conflict with the PEW Hispanic Center.
      the immigrants don’t get to take advantage of the tax-funded benefits legal residents enjoy
      Ummm.. wrong…
      police, emt
      Umm.. no…. Ambulances will pick up anyone who has been injured and police will respond to anyone who call 911.
      food stamps, education
      Wrong again… the flood of children of illegal immigrants in California costs plenty California tax payers plenty of money. Illegal Aliens can and do collect food stamps for anchor babies and illegal children.
      having bank accounts
      I know several people who are in the US illegally who have bank accounts…so…
      illegal immigrants willing pay income taxes
      Who willingly pays income taxes…? There are a bunch of ways you can limit the deductions from your paycheck and you can even file a return. I have actually done it for someone I knew was here illegally.. yes I know.. but when the system is so broken.. I don’t mind helping someone that I found likable.
      Illegal immigrant workforces drive down wages and that effects all levels of wages.
      True.. so does moving factories overseas.. the only way you can spot this is through legislation. (Tariffs..on overseas made products..)
      If Uncle Sam **can’t** keep them out (they’ve been doing everything possible to try)
      Nonsense.. eVerify which is an effective tool is voluntary not mandatory.
      Border security is a joke.
      front of the worthless bastards chamber of commerce.
      Them and the ACLU who joined forces to squelch making the eVerify system mandatory.
      It’s much more expensive for the illegal Mexican/whatever to stay and work here than it is for a legal immigrant.
      Expensive for the taxpayer yes.. because of the services they receive without funding from a legal worker. By the way, it isn’t that hard to get visas for agricultural workers.. funny thing is you have to pay for their medical insurance and unemployment. Most employers don’t bother.
      The employers are sitting on 2 trillion in assets, waiting out things instead of hiring.
      I have seen this figure tossed around but it ignores the debt and legacy liabilities that corporations have… no way would I hire more workers in an environment where the economy looks as if it could drop again.

      1. Wade:
        The number of illegal immigrants entering the United States plunged by almost two-thirds between 2005 and 2011
        Pew Hispanic Center report
        Taxes: Roughly 3/4’s of illegals pay social security taxes in the 10’s of billions, it’s auto-witheld. That money’s effect on SS is amplified by the fact that the payees never collect from the trust fund. Income tax? They pay more than they owe, partly cuz they can’t file for a refund…but many willingly pay income tax.
        The combined SS and income taxes paid by illegals comes to about 11 billion per year. And those illegals cannot benefit from their contributions.
        http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/taxes/2008-04-10-immigrantstaxes_N.htm
        As for e-verify and the ACLU, only 1% of employers presently use the system, and the congressional budget office estimates it’s implementation would cost 40 billion dollars. It would encourage employers and employees to go “off the books”.
        According to the ACLU, “”Employment verification creates a domestic ‘No Work List’ leaving those swept up erroneously with the burden of proving they should be eligible to work.”
        I agree. I’m a fan of the ACLU. I like civil liberties. The e-verify system is championed by republicans. Anything championed by republicans is, IMO, poison. If the republicans sponsored a bill to outlaw stomping puppies to death I would oppose it. There has to be something in it or about it that hoses the poor or working person.
        Border security is quite effective actually. If you study up on it, you’ll see that. The most modern, technological advances are used. No system is perfect.
        Illegals cannot have bank accounts. Simple common sense. I see them all day, they do not have something that impacts the life of a resident in many ways. The smallest and most obvious is having to pay 5% of your check just to cash it. Republicans and libertarians (republican lite) will go on killing sprees because they have fork over 5% in taxes.
        Then criminals target illegals about 500% more than anyone else because they know the illegals carry their money around with them. Everyone knows that. Why didn’t you?
        Illegal Immigrants can’t take advantage of medical services, and won’t call the EMT’s for fear of detection as an illegal. They won’t do alot of things for that reason.
        I’m sorry, but food stamps have to be in the parent’s name, so they can’t collect, being…illegal.
        People just don’t understand the problems and burdens of an illegal. They’re humongous.
        I know an illegal who had his apt. ransacked and his savings (no bank) stolen, including a 5 gallon water bottle full of change. The thief used a key to get in. The only second key was in the posession of the bldg super.. When my friend confronted him, the super said he didn’t know how someone could’ve used a key, but he’d be “happy to call the police to investigate” with a broad grin.
        He came over after an arranged marriage, but the woman lit out just before his legalization period was complete, and she took all his money and some belongings with her. Obviously, he couldn’t call the police.
        See? It’s complicated, isn’t it wade?

        1. To Dano:
          The number of illegal immigrants entering the United States plunged by almost two-thirds between 2005 and 2011
          Pew Hispanic Center report

          That’s entering the US not residing in.. eg the numbers are still rising in the wake of the worst economic slowdown since the 1930s. Go it?
          Illegals cannot have bank accounts.
          Yes they can.. walk into a Bank of America and ask if a friend of yours can open an account with a (Mexican issued..) Matricular ID. I know several guys who have bank accounts.
          Border security is quite effective actually. If you study up on it, you’ll see that. The most modern, technological advances are used. No system is perfect.
          I have… sorry disagree.
          Illegal Immigrants can’t take advantage of medical service.
          So you are saying all anchor babies are birth at home…? nope nada.. quite wrong. Dano you are just speculating.
          As for e-verify and the ACLU, only 1% of employers presently use the system, and the congressional budget office estimates it’s implementation would cost 40 billion dollars. It would encourage employers and employees to go “off the books”
          I said everify and the Chamber of Commerce also… you calimed that the US is doing everything it can to enforce the law.. and now you state they are not.. thanks for clearing that up. If they operate “off the books” they are committing a felony and can not only shut down but thrown in jail. Fees and fines for scofflaws could be levied to recoup costs but I would have to see that report to understand how they could up 40 billion. Clearly that would involve major enforcement costs.. not just simply using it. (Have you ever used it…? It’s pretty simple…)
          I’m sorry, but food stamps have to be in the parent’s name, so they can’t collect, being…illegal.
          Sorry to you.. if the child is not the parent can collect. They are assigned an id number in California. … next. ……
          Taxes: Roughly 3/4′s of illegals pay social security taxes in the 10′s of billions, it’s auto-witheld. That money’s effect on SS is amplified by the fact that the payees never collect from the trust fund. Income tax? They pay more than they owe, partly cuz they can’t file for a refund…but many willingly pay income tax.
          Presuming they never become legal which many do… (and you are presuming that SSN will exist for any American under 40 when they retire but that’s another story..) Here’s a simple trick… claim you have 5 dependents.. and see you with holding for income taxes go down. Common ploy. By the way.. I have actually filed returns for an illegal alien.. so you are wrong again.
          I am sorry to hear about your friend.. but he doesn’t live in Cal it sounds like and doesn’t know the system…

      2. “Employers sitting on 2 trillion in assets”
        “I have seen this figure tossed around but it ignores the debt and legacy liabilities that corporations have… no way would I hire more workers in an environment where the economy looks as if it could drop again.”
        What is debt and legacy liabilities? Sounds like republican excuses. Sounds like sophistry. They are sitting on trillions, squeezing their workers for every nano-calorie of extra work. Spare me the cheap, transparent excuses. Unemployment can be blamed on the employers.
        So can a drop in wages. A desperate workforce is a cheap workforce.
        They know this.

        1. I’m sorry, I’ve been addressing my response to Wade when it was actually **Uncle Milt*** that I should’ve addressed it to. My mistake.

        2. To Dano:
          Bank accounts for illegal aliens..? Just ask me how:
          Bank of America, the country’s second-largest bank, “has quietly begun offering credit cards to customers without Social Security numbers — typically illegal immigrants,” according to the Wall Street Journal.
          http://consumerist.com/2007/02/bank-of-america-major-credit-cards-with-no-ssn.html
          http://seekingalpha.com/article/27176-bank-of-america-reaching-out-to-the-unbanked
          http://www.foreignperspectives.com/opening-a-bank-account-in-america-as-a-non-resident-alien/2007/04/28/opinion.htm
          Opening a bank account without a SSN:
          http://www.greaterthings.com/News/Victories/bank_ssn.htm
          Ok.. for the last one.. I don’t expect an illegal alien to go into a bank and demand an account but it is good to know if you are a citizen.
          The cost of illegal aliens … ? Modest but there is a net cost:
          http://www.factcheck.org/2009/04/cost-of-illegal-immigrants/
          Filing a tax return:
          Note.. I have done this for someone who is in the US illegally.
          http://www.gtsec.com/taxes/forms/form1040nr-ez.asp
          Do I think things will change..? No.. because wealthy people in Mexico and the US benefit from a porous border….. hence.. on a personal level — since there is little enforcement.. I have no issues with assisting some people here and there.
          But claiming there is no net cost… (and we aren’t even talking about wage suppression..) or that illegal aliens can’t open bank accounts or that they don’t use medical care on the taxpayers dime..? No.. not true. I am sorry to hear about your friend.. I believe someone abusing an illegal immigrant is at the same moral level as someone abusing children and should be punished. Please inform him about Bank of America’s policies towards non-resident aliens. Oh.. and sorry for the previous incoherent post with many missing words and grammar errors.

        3. To Dano:
          What is debt and legacy liabilities? Sounds like republican excuses. Sounds like sophistry.
          Ummm no.. we are talking about corporations not local, state, or the federal government.
          Debt:
          Call yourself a company – The Dano company.
          You have $2,000,000 in the bank…. but you have $1,800,000 in credit card debt. (For companies it’s usually revolving debt similar to credit card..) or you have bonds that are due at some point in the future. (An individual doesn’t have bonds of course..)
          You can say you have 2 million dollars but it would be more accurate to say (from an accounting point of view..) that you have net cash of $200K not 2 million. A 10x difference.. this is a very common situation for many US corporations.
          Legacy liabilities = Pensions and company funded medical plans after a worker retires. I say legacy because very few companies have pensions or funded retirement medical plans for newly hired employees. Many pension plans are underfunded… also medical costs are far outstripping inflation. Hence my reference to legacy costs.. which I have read are somewhere between 500 million to 1 trillion. A company generally has to cover these costs unless they file for bankruptcy. Baby boomer retirement costs are not only an issue for various governments but also for many corporations.

  3. By demanding immigration policing laws, Utah has saved itself from further bombardment of economic illegal aliens. By the hundreds and thousands they will leave as they did in the Great State of Arizona, where these people depleted public entitlements. Now they have diverted their attention to Colorado plus other pliable States welfare cash to pillage So if States do not author laws such as E-Verify and other harsh enforcement treatments, illegal alien eyes will turn towards–YOUR–State and your welfare handouts, taking away from your own veterans, homeless, single mothers, sick and those living in poverty. Look to the Sanctuary State of California that is still suffering from a $24 Billion dollar treasury loss and still being sacked by illegal alien education, health care, public programs and overcrowded prisons.Already a million plus Taxpayer’s have investigated truthful illegal alien welfare costs, population statistics and your chance to fax for free the leadership in Washington at NumbersUSA pro-sovereignty organization.
    What we need is a federal consensus, to implement a national wide bill, that every person who votes must show authoritative picture ID, as there is much credence on my part and other voter fraud was epidemic in the last election. The main culprit is absentee ballots that can easily be forged and sent in, not even representing the real individual. My guess in some of the Sanctuary States like California and Nevada overpopulated with illegal nationals used the absentee ballot, to keep Lib-Democrats in power such as Senator Harry Reid, as in these last years of office has tried to undermine E-Verify and other policing deterrents, to include to 287 G, to question suspicious persons on the highway. Our country is sinking into a quagmire of irreversible debt, with States forced to give handouts to illegal aliens. According to (FAIR) Federation of American Immigration reform in the last analysis of the year 2004, illegal immigration cost the US, $113 Billion dollars in lost revenue at just the federal level. Learn much more about costs and sickening statistics at www. numbersusa.com then join the one million plus taxpayers who send free faxes to Washington.

  4. “The Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR) is an “organization of concerned citizens who share a common belief that our nation’s immigration policies must be reformed to serve the national interest.” [1] FAIR was formed in 1979 by John Tanton, who believed immigration was a significant part of the US population “problem.” See RightWeb Profile
    FAIR played a significant role in drafting Arizona’s controversial SB1070 anti-immigrant law, which has been successfully challenged by the US Department of Justice. According to the FAIR website, “FAIR’s legal affiliate, the Immigration Reform Law Institute (IRLI) assisted [Arizona] Senator Pearce in drafting the language of SB1070.
    In 2007, the Southern Poverty Law Center branded FAIR a hate group, stating that:
    “The founder, chief ideologue and long-time funder of FAIR [John Tanton] is a racist. Key staff members have ties to white supremacist groups, some are members, and some have spoken at hate group functions. FAIR has accepted more than $1 million from a racist foundation devoted to studies of race and IQ, and to eugenics – the pseudo-science of breeding a better human race that was utterly discredited by the Nazi euthanasia program. It spreads racist conspiracy theories.”
    ______________________________

    1. “In 2007, the Southern Poverty Law Center branded FAIR a hate group”
      Well Dano, if you’re going to use such scholarly unbiased sources such as the SPLC then we all better run and hide. We all know that Morris Dees is the mouth piece of God on Earth.
      I’d like to know what supposedly racist foundation they get money from. I’d bet money it’s the Pioneer Fund. Many people also leave out that they funded some of the most important experiments and studies of the 20th century such as the study of the identical twins who were raised seperately.

      1. Well, either it’s revelations are true or they aren’t. The SPLC defeated the KKK. I like that. Can u give examples where they’ve lied?
        Is it untrue that FAIR played a significant part in drafting the AZ immigration law?
        Is it untrue that the founder and chief idealogue John Tanton is a racist? Why doesn’t that concern you?
        Is it untrue that key staff members have ties to white supremist groups? I mean, dayum.
        I mean, it’s not JUST the SPLC that’s saying this.
        Here’s some more..
        “Nearly all the research that Murray and Herrnstein relied on for their central claims about race and IQ was funded by the Pioneer Fund, described by the London Sunday Telegraph (3/12/89) as a “neo-Nazi organization closely integrated with the far right in American politics.” The fund’s mission is to promote eugenics, a philosophy that maintains that “genetically unfit” individuals or races are a threat to society.
        The Pioneer Fund was set up in 1937 by Wickliffe Draper, a millionaire who advocated sending blacks back to Africa. The foundation’s charter set forth the group’s missions as “racial betterment” and aid for people “deemed to be descended primarily from white persons who settled in the original 13 states prior to the adoption of the Constitution of the United States.” (In 1985, after Pioneer Fund grant recipients began receiving political heat, the charter was slightly amended to play down the race angle–GQ, 11/94.)
        The fund’s first president, Harry Laughlin, was an influential advocate of sterilization for those he considered genetically unfit. In successfully advocating laws that would restrict immigrants from Southern and Eastern Europe, Laughlin testified before Congress that 83 percent of Jewish immigrants were innately feeble-minded (Rolling Stone, 10/20/94). Another founder, Frederick Osborn, described Nazi Germany’s sterilization law as “a most exciting experiment” (Discovery Journal, 7/9/94).
        The fund’s current president, Harry Weyher, denounces the Supreme Court decision that desegregated schools, saying, “All Brown did was wreck the school system” (GQ, 11/94). The fund’s treasurer, John Trevor, formerly served as treasurer for the crypto-fascist Coalition of Patriotic Societies, when it called in 1962 for the release of Nazi war criminals and praised South Africa’s “well-reasoned racial policies” (Rolling Stone, 10/20/94).
        One of the Pioneer Fund’s largest current grantees is Roger Pearson, an activist and publisher who has been associated with international fascist currents. Pearson has written: “If a nation with a more advanced, more specialized or in any way superior set of genes mingles with, instead of exterminating, an inferior tribe, then it commits racial suicide” (Russ Bellant, Old Nazis, the New Right and the Republican Party). ”
        Source: FAIR

        1. To Dano:
          Is it untrue that the founder and chief idealogue John Tanton is a racist? Why doesn’t that concern you?
          FAIR is now run by someone who is Jewish so I doubt they are Nazis… and supposedly they no longer have any association with John Tanton… who by the way also had leadership roles in Sierra Club and the National Audubon Society in the 1970s and early 80s. Are those also hate organizations..?
          Does it concern you that Planned Parenthood was founded by a strong believer in Eugenics…? Who also lectured to groups like the KKK …?
          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Sanger#Eugenics_and_euthanasia
          http://www.blackgenocide.org/sanger.html
          By the way the US government partially funds Planned Parenthood.
          Or is Planned Parenthood a decent organization whose founder entertained both good and bad ideologies with the former surviving with Planned Parenthood..?

  5. @ Hacienda
    The undercurrent is that whitey is the lame-ass, the book reading, code throwing, machine integrated man-machine with the latest gun. Half man half computer. A mass of rules, codes, C++ directives, IEE references. Bill Gates with his finger on the button. LOL. It’s not hard to decide whose side you need to be on, if you are colored.
    WTF?!
    I THINK I know what you’re trying to say, but that came out a little weird.

  6. To Hacienda:
    If you guys want to live in Anglo LaLa Land, you are free too. It’s a happy place, I used to live there too, still do in a way. As a colored man I have NO interest in bursting that bubble. LOL.
    In others you are unable to offer a coherent rebuttal but instead you offer slurs. Gotcha.
    Colored revenge is real. But it’s not the only thing on this planet. LOL.
    Revenge against whom and in what manner..? By making iPhones inexpensive…? At least in the US when I look at crime statistics it is quite clear that so called “colored” people are exacting revenge much more often on other “colored” people than Whites. Usually by a factor of about 4 to 5 times more often.

    1. I don’t really have the time to put together a thesis for a zero stakes blog. (With all apologies to Rob) who I think is a terrific guy.
      But, really UM. You are pretty pin-headed in your thinking. Expand your intuition, your guts. Your jazz.
      Colored Revenge is real. Hallelujah!

      1. To Hacienda:
        Colored Revenge is real.
        Funny I seem to get along quite well with many “colored” people. Isn’t your wife White..?
        But, really UM. You are pretty pin-headed in your thinking. Expand your intuition, your guts. Your jazz.
        Once again slurs… and some slop about “colored” people’s revenge. So I guess you are too lazy to offer a rebuttal…. hey maybe you’re a White guy pretending to be Asian.

      2. “I don’t really have the time to put together a thesis for a zero stakes blog.”
        I don’t blame you. I do almost all my long comments off the top of my head. I’m not going to do a bibliography for a blog reply. This is probably why so many of my comments read like a stream of related but random thoughts sometimes, because they are. That’s also why I make so many typos.

  7. To Alpha:
    They have been recruiting and organizing illegal immigrants. It is important that these workers be organized, because if they can be taken advantage of and mistreated, so can you. This is the message labor unions in America have been getting out for years now.
    Yes Unions have been admitting illegal aliens for years now… but it hasn’t stopped the wage depression in the private sector. An almost endless supply of cheap labor depresses wages.. Caesar Chavez knew this and that is why for many years he campaigned against the importation of illegal labor. (and against work visas for legal labor…) An effective union is predicated on a restriction of labor. Unrestricted or barely restricted access to cheap labor
    will depress wages and erodes the union movement. A little known fact is that union representation for the private sector hit an 8 decade low last year. In sourcing (illegal labor or easily issued visas..) and outsourcing (moving work over seas…) is what is killing what is left of private labor unions.
    We could empty Mexico and Central America and still have plenty of laborers from South America and the Caribbean. Toss in India and Africa where laborers are even cheaper (and a mere 2 billion people…)
    That said, I don’t think there will be any effective measures taken against illegal immigration… it’s a winning play for plutocrats on both sides of the border. The notion of immigration restriction as late as the 80s was a leftist point of view…. neoliberals married the idea of race and immigration (You ever wonder why La Raza gets so much corporate support..?) so.. now.. voila… business groups and the left are on the same team.
    “On a few occasions, concerns that undocumented migrant labor would undermine UFW strike campaigns led to a number of controversial events, which the UFW describes as anti-strikebreaking events, but which have also been interpreted as being anti-immigrant. In 1969, Chávez and members of the UFW marched through the Imperial and Coachella Valleys to the border of Mexico to protest growers’ use of undocumented immigrants as strikebreakers. Joining him on the march were both Reverend Ralph Abernathy and US Senator Walter Mondale.[13] In its early years, Chávez and the UFW went so far as to report undocumented immigrants who served as strikebreaking replacement workers, as well as those who refused to unionize, to the Immigration and Naturalization Service.[14][15][16][17][18]
    In 1973, the United Farm Workers set up a “wet line” along the United States-Mexico border to prevent Mexican immigrants from entering the United States illegally and potentially undermining the UFW’s unionization efforts.[19] During one such event in which Chávez was not involved, some UFW members, under the guidance of Chávez’s cousin Manuel, physically attacked the strikebreakers, after attempts to peacefully persuade them not to cross the border failed.”

  8. To Hacienda:
    Your comment to Wade and BAG
    “If you guys want to live in Anglo LaLa Land, you are free too.”
    Your most recent comment
    “What am I supposed to rebut? You or Wade? And what in Wade’s argument should I rebut?”
    Me, I am just trying to be annoying… as for the rebuttal mostly to BAG and Wade.. even though the latter tends to drop into heavy anti-semiticism sometimes. (Hey you two have that in common…)
    But what do you mean by “colored” person’s revenge…? Really about the only time I have distinctly felt privileged to be White was when I travelling outside the US amidst so called “colored” people. Within the US I have experienced crankiness on occasion from American Blacks but very rarely from Blacks from Africa. Latinos seem to quite happy if a White guys speaks Spanish well (as with my father…) even though you get the occasional reconquista type who has a stick up his backside. As for Asians… jeesh.. yes I cower and quake around Ajumas. Granted the last time I was punched (and it was a good punch…) was by a drunk 42 year old Korean woman who had said she loved me only 5 minutes before.

    1. UM,
      You are wolf in sheep’s dress. An sex touring mutherfuck, no doubt.
      A dirty, filthy fat-belly white fuck playing wise know-it-all on the net. LOL. No “colored revenge”, my ass. Fuck U. FUCK U.

      1. To Hacienda:
        fat-belly white..
        Caucasoid yes.. fat no. Sorry to disappoint.
        No “colored revenge”, my ass.
        Since you are unwilling or unable to describe what this “colored” revenge might be…. I can’t really comment.

        1. UM,
          Here are some examples.
          “Kill Haole Day” in Hawaii.
          90+% black voting block for black candidates against white candidates.
          Happy slapping.
          Indigenous and nativist movements.
          Most Black Rap music.
          Chinese Communists
          North Korean Communists
          Japan’s Nationalists
          Mexican nativists
          The rise of the term “cracker”.
          Muhammed Ali “No Vietcong ever called me a ‘nigger'”.
          Gandhi, who was masterfully anti-white.
          Chechens
          Just about every black kid I have ever known.
          Most brown people I’ve met. Not the Spaniard assholes.
          Lots of yellows. Lots, men and women. Even the pay for sex ones.
          This is not to say they want a white holocaust. Or they hate whitey as their central motivation. Just that their is a revenge element there. Or a broad sense that things need to be balanced again. In their favor. OK?

        2. “Here are some examples.”
          Can’t say I agree with all of these.
          “90+% black voting block for black candidates against white candidates.”
          True, but they also voted against Alan Keys in the same number.
          “Happy slapping.”
          I was under the impression that they did this to a lot of people.
          “Indigenous and nativist movements.”
          Sure, but they’re not only anti-white. Chinese merchants inspire some pretty intense feeling throughout south east asia. Also, a lot of nativism and nationalism is directed at non-whites and non-european caucasoids. Iranian nationalists hatred of arabs could be one example. East Africa attacks against and expulsions of Arabs and South Asians at the end of the colonial era could be another.
          “Japan’s Nationalists”
          Sure, but do they have any room to talk about abuse?
          “Mexican nativists”
          Sure, but the way I understand it, the far right reconquista types in Mexico are those who support a hispanic mexico. There were some Mayan movements in the south, but I think their movements are pro indian. I think that would exculde mestizos as well.
          “The rise of the term “cracker”.”
          The term cracker has been around for a long time. I don’t believe it was originally considered something insulting. It was a name for a white culture group in Gerogia and Northern Florida.
          “Chechens”
          I don’t really consider that anti-white either. Anti-Russian definitely. I wouldn’t call the friendship between Russians or Ossetians as something necessarily pro-white either.

        3. “Japan’s Nationalists”
          Sure, but do they have any room to talk about abuse?

          Co-sign. True, I support Japanese nationalism/restrictionism just as I support nationalism elsewhere. Consistency demands it.
          But yeah, Unit 731, Baatan Death March, Rape of Nanking, etc.
          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_war_crime
          Not that I’m going to shed crocodile tears over the victims of Japanese aggression/barbarity.
          It’s just that they too have enemies. Then again, you could say the same for every group.

  9. To Hacienda:
    You are wolf in sheep’s dress.
    Not fond of cross dressing but I know a few people.. who are.
    Fuck U. FUCK U
    I think you meant to say Phuk Yu.
    Not to be confused with Phil Yu from AngryAsianMan.com. (Yes believe it or not this bad White man has corresponded with Mr. Yu…)
    PS My sis is married to someone who is half Asian… maybe my brother in law is really out to get me… although he does a pretty good job of keeping his “colored” revenge motif under wraps. Enjoy your White wife tonight.

    1. @ Uncle Milton
      Is Hacienda really married to a white woman?
      As to your speculation that he’s not Korean, who knows? This is the internet, after all.
      Considering that he doesn’t play Starcraft, that wouldn’t be too surprising. LOL! 🙂

      1. No BAG,
        I’m Korean. Married to a Korean woman. No lie.
        But I plead guilty to having a few white girlfriends. Including
        a couple of Jewesses. Very sweet. Good times in my life. Happy memories.
        In fact, I probably should a married a white woman. Probably would have worked out better. Not that, I’m unhappy with how things turned out.

        1. “I’m Korean. Married to a Korean woman”
          Good. For a while I thought you might have actually been an old commenter from my amren days so long ago named John Liu. He was a chinese guy in (or from?) Hong Kong who was married to a white women. You don’t seem to be extremely bitter like him though.
          “In fact, I probably should a married a white woman”
          Don’t tell fpy3p.

    2. “… although he does a pretty good job of keeping his “colored” revenge motif under wraps.”
      I’m telling you guys…the whole “revenge” roleplaying aspect is therapeutic. I can just see just see you brother in law railing your sister at high speed yelling “Do you think it’s so small now, cracker!!!!!” while pulling her hair and smacking her across the face.

  10. To Hacienda:
    All the revenge stuff is basically promoted by racists with an agenda. The people they want to take revenge against for the most part are long dead… or … very likely well out of there reach. When you can’t kill the one you want… kill the one you’re with.
    “Kill Haole Day” in Hawaii.
    I don’t live in Hawaii.. make it independent for all I care.
    “Gandhi, who was masterfully anti-white…”
    The British left India because they had the wind knocked out of them by crazy White folks and were basically bankrupt. Colonialism costs money.. and makes a few people rich and a bunch of people poor. About half the people I work with are Indian.. I get along with them just fine. Oh yeah .. Gandhi.. killed by a Hindu Nationalist.. not a White guy.
    “Chinese Communists/North Korean Communists/Japan’s Nationalists”
    They cancel each other out. And really Chinese communists…? In name only.
    Mexican nativists – made cranky sometimes by their White overlords who run Mexico. Speak Spanish and for the most part everything is fine. Last time some joker threw the “you took our land” line at me (which happens very rarely, it was on a blog…) I said.. yes.. how did you know I was 180 years old… ? Do you like all the buildings, roads, dams, and other infrastructure I put on the land…?
    “The rise of the term “cracker”.
    It’s been around for decades and has about as much impact as honky.. .. I am taking the name back… call me the wry cracker…. AKA the suave saltine. I can’t remember the last time someone called me a cracker to my face .. if there ever has been a time. I’ve seen it used on ModelMinority and a few other cranky POC blogs. Like I give a flying rats behind.
    “Chechens”
    Are White but cranky.. and not my concern. I don’t live in Russia.
    “Just about every black kid I have ever known.”
    Well I looked up the stats… 6 times more likely to kill another Black person than a White person. Try harder guys.
    “Most brown people I’ve met. Not the Spaniard assholes.
    Lots of yellows. Lots, men and women. ”
    I am sure some Brown folks and Yellow folks bitch about White folks when they are around you… funny thing is Brown and Yellow folks bitch about Black, Brown, and Yellow folks when they are around White folks.
    Sure some Asian guys get a little cranky when they see me with an Asian woman… stealing their women I guess… well look… steal some White women for all I care… just remember there is no return policy.

    1. “. Last time some joker threw the “you took our land” line at me (which happens very rarely, it was on a blog…) I said.. yes.. how did you know I was 180 years old… ?”
      I always thought that the idea that the indians movements were something anti-white was kind of wrong. (BTW I’m only talking about real indians, not mexicans mestizos from “Aztlan”) I can see them being against white conflicting with them in the new world, but that has to do with the conflict, not race. I’ve neverheard any native american hatred of Ukrainians or Swedes. It’s just crazy to be anti-white liike that because many whites actually support native americans. Maybe not the most extreme movements, but in things like language preservation and economic development help I think there is wide support. The problem is is that the issue has been hijacked by a bunch of SWPL liberals who are intent on making the movement extremely hostile to whites. If the average white was in the pro-indian movement, the Ward Churchill & co. couldn’t feel superior to other whites for supporting it.

  11. To Wade:
    I can see them being against white conflicting with them in the new world, but that has to do with the conflict, not race.
    This was an Aztlan guy… not an American Indian. For many reasons I would never say that to an indigenous North American.

  12. To Wade:
    Ward Churchill
    Another White dude who distorts his ethnic background (like Tim Wise but Ward got there first…) for profit. Claimed for years that he was Native American until he was outed. He also lied about his military service. Russell Means (one of the founders of AIM…) called him a fake Indian.
    PS I found Tim Wise’s house on the internet. It’s only 4 times the average price of a house in Nashville and is less than 40 yards from a golf course. Man is he fighting the good fight.. all the way to the bank.
    “This property contains 0.14 of land mainly classified as RES with a(n) SINGLE FAM style building, built about 2006 , having BRICK/FRAME exterior and ASPHALT roof cover, with 1 unit(s), 9 total room(s), 4 total bedroom(s), 3 total bath(s), 1 total half bath(s),0 total 3/4 bath(s)”
    Total Value $639,300 2010
    The golf course near his house:
    http://www.nashville.gov/parks/golf/mccabe/index.asp

    1. “Russell Means (one of the founders of AIM…) called him a fake Indian. ”
      I remeber commentator David Yeagley called him a “pretendian”…one of the best phrases I heard all last decade.

  13. I’m personally not anti-white, just anti-AngloJewry. Russians and Germans have been some of the biggest, badass anti-AngloJew white guys out there. They have my eternal respect. I support yellow liberation movements (Mao, Ho Chi Minh etc), brown ones (Nasser, Ortega, etc), and white ones (Irish, Balkans, Uncle Adolf), but black ones? I think I’ll pass. My beef with the Judaic British Empire is with what they did OUTSIDE of Africa.

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