Southeast Asian IQ Scores

Repost from the old site. The IQ scores of Southeast Asian groups are not well-known. The best source, and it is not very good at all, is Richard Lynn’s chart from IQ and Global Inequality. Richard Lynn is a hardcore racist, typical of most hereditarian IQ researchers. Let us look at some of the scores he has come up with:

World average 88
Laos          89
Cambodia      90 (est.)
Thailand      91
Vietnam       95
Hmong         --

The Vietnam score is quite suspect. I don’t know exactly how he did it, but he seems to have averaged scores from surrounding countries to come up with his score. Lynn needs to do this because he has some strange theories about how IQ developed. He thinks that IQ is shaped by going through the Ice Age. Philippe Rushton, another hardcore academic racist, goes along with this. Their followers claim that Europeans went through two ice ages, one 70,000 years ago and another 10,000-20,000 years ago. Truth is that the Toba Volcano explosion in Indonesia 73,000 years ago not only wiped out all the pre-Europeans, but also killed every other human being west of the explosion, through Asia, the Middle East and even Africa. It is thought that a group as small as 5,000, probably situated on the western slope of Mount Kilimanjaro in Africa, made it through the explosion and ensuing decade of frigid nuclear winter. In addition to killing the humans, most other forms of life were probably also killed by this explosion. A few years after the explosion, humanity seems to have gone through a serious bottleneck. No doubt major changes took place, including selection for intelligence. It is at this time that we see something called The Great Leap Forward in Eastern Africa. Art, language, and a huge cultural explosion take place in only a few years. Humanity then explodes out of Africa to populate the world. We have no way of knowing what any race’s IQ was 10,000’s of years ago, and it is silly to even guess. Furthermore, European-type Caucasians do not appear until about 10,000-13,000 years ago, probably in the Middle East and then spreading into Europe. Earlier than that, proto-Caucasoid skulls do not look much like modern-day Europeans. So it appears that the “European race” (that doesn’t really exit, see here) didn’t even go through any ice age in Europe anyway. That neato White skin comes later. Over in Northeast Asia, we have a different story. Supposedly, these high-IQ folks evolved in the frigid cold of Siberia. The problem with that is that modern NE Asians Aborigines or the Ainu. They are also said to look like Negritos and Polynesians. These specimens were from the Zhoukoudian Cave in Northern China. The Ainu, who are also said to have Aborigine features, are thought to be the proto-NE Asians. The proto-NE Asian group seems to have had its homeland around Lake Baikal about 35,000 years ago. So it looks like the people we call NE Asians today did not go through any Ice Age either. But, getting back to the Vietnam score. Richard Lynn’s theory will not support highly intelligent Asians, not to mention SE Asians, since they did not go through his famous Ice Age. However, all Asians came out of the proto-Asian homeland in Northern Vietnam and Southern China around 60-110,000 years ago. From there, they fanned out across SE Asia, Southern China and NE Asia. The crucial point is that SE Asians, including Southern Chinese, did not go through Lynn’s famous Ice Age brain gauntlet. Therefore, they cannot be real smart, according to Lynn. Except that some of them, which causes a problem for Mr. Lynn’s theory. Indeed, Lynn puts SE Asian IQ at 87 and considers them about the 4th most intelligent group on the planet, behind NE Asians, European Caucasians, and Eskimos. Lynn’s theory also presupposes a relationship between latitude and race. So we can’t have any smarties down there in the hot weather. They all have to come from frigid land, where their IQ’s got nice and refrigerated. Problem is that evidence shows that Central regions actually produce more geniuses than Northern or Southern regions. In order to fit the facts into his dubious theory, Lynn plays a lot of games. He refuses to note that Southern Chinese are some of the smartest people on Earth – their IQ is thought to be ~105, or possibly higher. The Chinese provinces around Hong Kong have often produced some of the brightest Chinese cohorts in the land. Further, we can’t have any real bright SE Asians either, for the same reasons as for the Southern Chinese, and also so as not to mess up his SE Asian IQ of 87. Which brings us to the Vietnamese. The Vietnamese IQ of 95 is incorrect, and Lynn is apparently deliberately distorting it to move his fake theory along. I think he got it by dividing the Thai IQ by the Chinese IQ, which he falsely puts at ~100 (The urban IQ is something like ~105, and Lynn dishonestly assumes that the rural areas have a 10 pt lower IQ, so he divides and gets 100). Nice trick, huh? Interestingly, Southern Chinese, though presumably high IQ and though they dominate the economy of Vietnam as businessmen, reportedly do found an IQ of IQ of 101. The 2006 study found an IQ of 98 . Averaging the two together gives us a Vietnamese IQ of 99.5. That is quite respectable, and smashes Lynn’s clever little theory to bits. Based on that high IQ, the future looks hopeful for both the nation of Vietnam and Vietnamese in the US. Vietnamese in the US often perform very well. In Orange County, California, they are reportedly the highest performing ethnic group. Another interesting group is the Hmong. The Hmong are a primitive tribe in Laos, Vietnam, Thailand and China. They helped the US fight Communism in Laos and were persecuted after the war by the Pathet Lao regime. The Hmong really didn’t give a damn about Communism or capitalism or any of that, as they were just swidden agriculturalists up in the north of Laos near the Plain of Jars. They also did a bit of hunting and gathering. Their cultural level was not very high. They were considered the “hillbillies of Asia” and to some extent, they still are. Many NE Asians look down on them, as they look down on SE Asians in general. One NE Asian on a forum described the Hmong as “the worst of all. We would rather marry a White person than one of them.” Well, I beg to differ. I have worked with these people in the past teaching Hmong adults ESL and I really enjoyed them. Actually, I enjoyed all the SE Asian students. They have some problems here in the US, as they came here after years in refugee camps with little more than the shirts on their backs. I recall an anecdote I heard about the Hmong at an educational conference. They were living in these squalid refugee camps amidst some pretty bad conditions. But in one building in the camp, English was being taught. There was not enough room for the Hmong of all ages to be taught there, so many could not get in. So they went home? Forget it! Mobs crowded around the windows, trying to see the teacher and listen to the lesson. As you can see, an intelligent group or individual, even when exposed to an impoverished environment, will often seek out stimulation wherever they can find it. I recall another story from India about a boy in a small village who was very bright. There was nothing going on in the village, so he walked hours every day to a bookshop in a nearby town and spent all day there reading books. High IQ seeks out stimulating environments, which then enrich the mind further, which then drives further stimulation-seeking. In this way, genetics and IQ drive each other, for better or worse throughout life, and it is for this reason that it is almost impossible to untangle genetics from environment in intelligence, not to mention a host of other things. Well, I finally found a report on the Net of a test of Hmong IQ. This is apparently the first test ever made on the Hmong IQ, and I’m going to publish it here and get all the laurels. The test was done in the US in a school district, and the Hmong students scored quite low, an 82.15 IQ. There were however extreme differences between a Performance IQ of 95 and a verbal IQ of 74. Even the normal Asian gap between performance and verbal IQ is generally not that great. Furthermore, my friends who have worked with the Mien near Davis, California, say that the children do very well in school while living in profoundly deprived conditions in the home. The Mien are probably very closely related to the Hmong. The fact that the children may have had difficulty with the English language cannot be ruled out. The 82.15 IQ is the lowest among mainland Asians and is below that of US Blacks, Hispanics and Amerindians. It is also below Samoans and Melanesians. I have spent years teaching in the public schools and taught thousands of Black, Hispanic and Samoan students in the Los Angeles area. I have also spent some time with Hmong adults of all ages and a bit of time with Hmong children. My opinion was that they are highly intelligent and I find it very hard to believe that their IQ’s are lower than US Blacks (no attempt to put down the IQ scores of US Blacks, Hispanics or Samoans was made here). I feel that as the Hmong stay in the US longer, the IQ scores will rise quite a bit. Keep in mind these students typically come from extremely deprived environments. The Hmong may have more NE Asian genes than any other group in SE Asia, which makes the low IQ score even more suspect. Two recent studies have been done on Thai IQ. One came up with a score of 87.5 and the other came up with a score of 92. In the latter test , scores were much worse in the North. The mean of the two tests is ~90 IQ. This is not far off from Lynn’s score. On the Thai fora where I tracked the scores down Thai-Americans were disappointed in their performance and wished they could do better. I found similar things at Khmer and Lao forums, where some of the higher IQ groups were baiting the SE Asians for having IQ’s “lower than the average human”, as if this was a bad thing. Actually, according to Micheal Hart, average human IQ is 88. Thailand does have a lot of malnutrition and it is well known that this depresses IQ scores. Further, the government is actually getting serious about IQ and trying to raise national scores. I will toast to that one. Thai and Cambodian IQ is 90, the same as Albania, Bosnia and Croatia. The Lao score is 89, the same as Turkey. Let’s redo the IQ chart with the additions and emendations to Lynn’s dubious calculations. Note that the Lao and Khmer scores are from the ethically-challenged Professor Lynn. I searched all around for a good IQ study on the Khmer and Lao, but I could not find one. I did fight a report on mental health in Laos where a Laotian psychologist was working on preparing a version of the WISC of Lao youth. However, the Lynn figure for Lao IQ at least represents two actual tests in Laos, one that found an IQ of 90 in village children in Laos not living in abject poverty. The second was a similar study done on their mothers that found an IQ of 88. The average, then, is 89.

Hmong         82.15
World average 88?
Laos          89
Cambodia      90 (est.)
Thailand      90
Vietnam       99.5

As we can see from these comparisons and the fact that most SE Asian scores surpass the world average, most SE Asians surely have the brains to develop in a modern, Western-type society. Furthermore, there are large numbers of malnourished people in all those countries. It is important to be above the world average. Although White Nationalists and some Asians rebuke groups who score at around 89-90 IQ, this blog is going to take the humanistic position that the average human is not a complete idiot. You are welcome to disagree. Therefore, this blog will never call an IQ of 88 or above a “low IQ” – an implicitly misanthropic stance. Scoring at least at or above world average IQ ought to be sufficient to make a nation competitive economically with other nations, even if there are no other benefits. The future looks bright for SE Asians in both their lands and in the US. Things haven’t been totally on the up and up for Asians in recent years. They have suffered stereotyped in similar ways by Whites. SE Asians have much lower college grad rate and higher unemployment rate than NE Asians, but some (Vietnamese) are doing quite well in some places. In that same area (SF Bay Area), many Asians, especially SE Asians, are forming gangs.There are now Mien, Cambodian, Chinese, Korean and Khmu gangs in California. At one Alameda County school, Asians went from typical high-achievers to having many delinquents in just 15-20 yrs. In Alameda County, Vietnamese (IQ 99.5), Lao (IQ 90) and Samoans (IQ 86) have considerably higher crime rates than Hispanics (IQ 89). There is a very high crime rate among Vietnamese and Lao youths in Richmond, second only to Blacks. You can see, there is no relationship between IQ and crime here. A Second Generation theory has been proposed – the 2nd generation of immigrants has a high crime rate and rejects their parents’ values. In the US, 2/3 of Hmong and Lao, 50 That “low-crime Asians” could have the potential for disorganized violence and crime is not surprising in light of my previous post documenting very high crime rates amongst Euro-Whites at various times in the past. Even peaceful Taiwan has seen a sharp increase in crime in recent years. Who knows why that is occurring. Criminology is a notorious graveyard for dead theories that never pan out.


Smith, Douglas K., Wessels, Richard A., Riebel, Emily M. August 1997. Use of the WISC-III and K-BIT with Hmong Students. School Psychology Training Program University of Wisconsin-River Falls. Paper presented at Annual Meeting of the American Psychological Association, Chicago, IL.
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66 thoughts on “Southeast Asian IQ Scores”

  1. Typical nigger cowardice. They target elderly Asians and kids who are smaller than them.
    These monkeys should be deported back to Africa so they can starve with the rest of their fellow savages.

      1. The hell is the problem with you people! I’m ashamed that people who are supposed to be my same race (Asian right?) are so God damn racist. The fact that those who also call themselves “liberal” are racist just brings shame to my soul and the fact that people can be so ignorant is just fucked up! Hope you repent yourselves since yeah, wtf?!

  2. “SE Asians and NE Asians are stereotyped in similar ways by Whites. SE Asians have much lower college grad rate and higher unemployment rate than NE Asians, but some (Vietnamese) are doing quite well in some places.”
    Vietnamese are actually doing quite well in every Western country in which they reside, despite coming as refugees. In the US, Vietnamese median family income is higher than whites and still climbing relative to whites. (Keep in mind that adjusting for education levels, Asians make about 65 cents for every dollar that whites make; and Women make 75 cents for every dollar men make for doing the same work.)
    Since the 1960’s, NE Asians, Asian Indians, Pakistanis, Filipinos, etc. have been elite immigrants, i.e. H1-B visas and whatnot. However, historically, the Chinese and Japanese (and prolly Koreans too) have always significantly outperformed whites prior to the elite nature of immigration starting in the 1960’s.
    The Vietnamese gang problem ended a long time ago, and was really only a problem around 1985-1995. “Vietnamese gangs” were disproportionately Chinese-Vietnamese; Chinese Vietnamese make up only 5% of the total number of immigrants from Vietnam; Chinese Triads are the biggest organized crime group of Vietnam.
    In 1990, median age for Vietnamese was 20.5 years old. At the height of the Vietnamese gang problem, Vietnamese cirme rte was about twice that of non-hispanic whites.
    According to 2008 Bureau of Justice Statistics, hispanics hand an incarceration rate that was 2.5 times higher than whites. But adjusting for age. This ratio dropped to 1:1.09 since hispanics have an median age of 27.5 and whites about 40.2 (??). That is, the disparity between whites and hispanics virtually disappeared.
    Asians in general are 33 years old in median age. Hmong are 18.5 years old in medians age.
    Whites, blacks, Native Americans, and Hawaiians are in large part born and raised in the US, so adjusting for age changes nothing in respective interracial comparisons between these groups.

  3. Check it: Korea 106. Top of the world, bitches. And it does so under a pretty nihilistic (relative to whitey’s wussy values) thought/culture background. The strong survive. Korea was a polygamous society until the 20th C. There is also high pressure for lower class women to mate (I do mean “mate”) with high IQ, power males. Married Korean women, to men who are obviously dullards, will even carry the babies of superior males in secret and raise the kids as if they are their own. The dullard husband, being a dullard, will NEVER know. Now I ask you, how many white women will do THAT for themselves and country? I can’t tell you how great it is to be from a country that is as intelligent as Korea which does what common sense and nature calls for. Because intelligence is a positive (really the single greatest human property) that uplifts and makes tolerable even the gravest national situations. A brilliant mind is its own greatest reward and a delight to possess even through old age. The minds of the dull age poorly and make dust of the bodies that possess them. Of course, I’m not saying that intelligence is the only human good. Just the best.

      1. Ironic isn’t it? The Jews (and feminists etc) shaming other peoples for attempting to undertake ethnic improvement programs. Now we’re all just so terrified of nukes and other WMDs we forced into block behavior. Even tiny word misdeeds are socially censored. If we’re all forced to atomize, then I’m making sure the kikes and their fellow conspirators atomize first.

        1. The way I see it, the day organized Jewry starts promoting mass immigration and multiculturalism for Israel, the day they incessantly denounce Israelis as racist for espousing pro-Jewish sentiments, etc, is the day I’ll finally start to take their moral posturing here somewhat seriously.

        2. “Even tiny word misdeeds are socially censored”
          It is totally ridiculous that these kikes are still thought of by victims by many. Older generations of jews had to worry about pogroms. Newer generations have to worry about being called a bad name.
          Of course, all of this is really just a front. Now we know why loder generations of europeans held them in contempt: because they knew the true nature of these hook nosed demons.

    1. “A brilliant mind is its own greatest reward and a delight to possess even through old age.”
      You can be highly intelligent and terribly neurotic and unhappy or highly intelligent and selfish, cruel and miserable, so no.
      What good is intelligence without a good heart?

    2. I laughed so hard I spilled orange juice all over my keyboard. You Koreans are a funny bunch, I tell you. My money’s on your being a White troll.

      1. My money’s on your being a White troll.
        I’m a Korean troll trolling white trolls trolling Koreans.

  4. To JoBo:
    (Keep in mind that adjusting for education levels, Asians make about 65 cents for every dollar that whites make; and Women make 75 cents for every dollar men make for doing the same work.
    Do you have links to back up these assertions..? Also is this median or mean income.. given that the mean can be skewed higher by a small group of exorbitantly compensated (usually White male..) executives.
    This ratio dropped to 1:1.09 since hispanics have an median age of 27.5 and whites about 40.2 (??). That is, the disparity between whites and hispanics virtually disappeared.
    The average age difference would explain some of the difference in criminality (given greater percentage of younger people (especially between the ages of 14 to 26) in the Hispanic community..) between non-Hispanic Whites and Hispanics but I don’t think it’s as much as you state… once again to have a link to prove this..?

  5. Lindsay do anthropologists know that the modern human never went through any ice age?lindsay neantherdals were duller than humans..yet they survived the ice age for 300 thousand years!so lynn is a racist charlatan…lol

    1. Neanderthals had larger brains than anatomically modern humans.
      Maybe Neanderthals were just not as cunning as modern humans and that’s why they lost out.

    Seems this study found average Thai IQ around 98.5 for youth, with huge discrepancies between different regions. Quite a bit different than what the other studies got, huh? Maybe the other studies didn’t go all across the breadth of Thailand’s geography, and stayed in the “dumber” areas?
    I have to say, Vietnamese in America are extremely intelligent, likely right on par with Chinese Americans. I can’t see their IQ scores being any lower than whatever the Chinese Deep South (Guangdong/Guangxi) has.

  7. “One NE Asian on a forum described the Hmong as “the worst of all. We would rather marry a White person than one of them.”
    Enough of this Anti-Hmong or SEA bashing by the NEAs. Let me inform you Mr. Lindsay as well as the NEAs from here on about what the Hmong-Mien are all about. But first I have to ask you which specific tribe that NEA individual was from in posting such a defiling comment against the Hmong-Miens as I have taken great offense as a descendent of Daxi culture myself. Was he or she a Han Chinese? Please let him or her know that their defining y-DNA marker is haplogroup O3a3c while the defining marker of Hmong-Miens are hg O3a3b. Both Hmong-Miens and Sino-Tibetans originated in Northwest China. So please tell that individual to set aside nature and emphasize nurture as an explanation of Han/Hmong-Mien differences in today’s socioeconomic realm. Besides their “superior NEA Han Chinese” fellows carry moderate markers of C3c (which are also found heavily among Altaics but foreign nevertheless). Or was that individual a Korean or Jap? I’ll have that person know that their defining core haplogroup marker is O2b. O2b gives them that infamous self-hating/low self esteem sensibility that made it all possible for them to rapidly modernize and open up to the West to receive their capital before the true blue East Asian O3s did. This isn’t surprising as O2b carriers probably spoke an Altaic language and as we know, the Altaic Mongols easily adapted foreign ways as Altaics cannot generate or spawn any ways of their own. Interestingly enough O2b occurs in about 30% of Korean or Jap males while Christianity also occurs in about 30% of South Koreans. Maybe a y-DNA sampling of South Korean Christians is very much needed to seek an O2b over-representation in SK Christians eh? Or is that unethical?
    From a Hmong-Mien speaker and descendant of Daxi Culture, have a good day “NEAs”.
    P.S., a racist Jap is fundamentally impossible and is only backed by economics due to being America’s bitch. Japs have high frequencies of haplogroup D2 and as we all know, D2’s were racially australoid. Just look at some Jap American/Caucasian American unions as Japs are so exceptionally fond of in intermarrying with. Their off springs look quite like Mestizos. Not that I have anything against Mestizos, its just that ironically I was frequently bullied by high testosterone Mestizos during childhood and as an adult I am generally appalled by the morphological traits of such Proto-Mongoloid/Caucasoid hybrid specimens.

      1. This is one of the best posts ever on this site. I have been wanting to get into stuff like this for a long time now on here. This is where I want to go with Liberal Race Realism.

      2. Great observation. People from the middle east and neighboring regions (i.e. Azerbaijanis, Georgians, Armenians, Afghans … Semitic and Iranic-sourced groups in general) are indeed very ruthless. Indians seem to get the worse rap here (I agree that they are probably the most callous and sociopathic), but they too fall within that collective.

        1. That’s a shame since Indians aren’t one “group” and there are huge ethnic and cultural variances between northwest(more afghan), north, south and north-east regions. Although I agree with the callous part, it seems to be a cultural trait especially with young men in my country, but we are hardly sociopathic. Indians generally are extremely helpful people, even to strangers and foreigners. Having lived in many countries with less than average service, and getting opinions from some friends in France and Taiwan who visited here, they seem to agree on the “hospitality” bit too.

      3. I’m pretty late to respond, but where can I read about the haplogroups of the Japanese and Korean prison population? Can’t find any results on Google.

  8. I think what you just published is not true regarding the Hmong in the U.S. and Thai in Thailand. I think if you choose the groups well enough, there should be similar to one another. One thing you mentioned here is bias is that you didn’t even conduct the test but taking someone else work and just bs around. Before you published something like this on the web, think twice.

  9. You are definitely right about Lynn being a racist. He ignores the effect nutrition has on brain development and, therefore, on IQ scores. Why do I say this? Well, we’ve only really tested South Korea’s IQ, and yet he puts North Korea’s IQ as exactly identical to South Korea’s. He is assuming that genetics, given that the Koreans probably have similar gene pools across the demilitarized zone, and giving them exactly the same score as each other. The true score of North Korea though is probably much lower than the South, not because of a lack of genetic potential, but because of a lack of nutrition. Once their youth is past and they have not had the correct nourishment, they are stuck as they are. When you’re 30 years old, taking Omega 3 tablets won’t do much for increasing/developing your brain power anymore, if anything it simply keeps you functioning to the level that you already are, preventing you from degrading.
    And I agree with your statements on Vietnam. If you look at Vietnam’s performance on the International Math Olympics for example, they typically outperform Japan, Taiwan, Italy, UK etc… (if you look at their overall performance across the years). Japan has only recently began to beat Vietnam. Isn’t that kind of interesting? You’d think such a superior IQ nation should be destroying poor Vietnam in math, but they weren’t able to until more recently (Vietnam blew it on the most recent test for whatever reason). If you were to take population into account, remember, Japan has a larger population than Vietnam. Isn’t that interesting? With a larger population of talent to choose from, with a population with a higher average IQ, they can’t manage to consistently beat a war ravaged Communist country that struggle to keep their children nourished.
    FYI: The only countries that consistently outperform Vietnam would be the US, Russia, and China (mainland). Korea also does pretty well, typically beating Vietnam by a bit, but there are years Vietnam beats Korea, so you can’t say they consistently beat Vietnam, but I guess you can say on average they beat Vietnam. But it’s pretty safe to say Vietnam, in terms of overall performance across the decades, has placed 5th in the world. An IQ average of 95 does not explain this level of performance. Also, the Chinese population in Vietnam typically do badly in school (they typically focus on commerce). They would not be the ones representing the country. If anyone wants to, they can actually check the members of the teams (the websites typically post this up, if they are still up that is, these competitions aren’t very sexy and probably don’t have a very long shelf life). Most of the people on there look pretty standard Vietnamese (some are dark, some are light, just the way Vietnam works really, most don’t have double eyelids etc…) with typical Vietnamese names.
    Note: The lower the number the better, because this is showing rank, not score.

    1. Check out UAE, Kuwait, Venezuala. The Brown countries in the IMO. What a record of shame and humiliation. Why do they even bother to show up? Knowing that they WILL get their DUMB coconut asses handed to them by the Vietnamese?

      1. To give their kids something to do?
        If you’re going to throw in other countries as well, look at all the top countries in the world, Germany, France, Spain etc… none of them beat Vietnam on average. It’s really not a shame to be losing to Vietnam, given their outstanding performance year on year out. The country is war torn so people don’t focus on it much, and the tech industry etc… didn’t have the same chance to develop. I’m not saying that the Vietnamese are the most awesome at all, I’m only trying to back up Robert Lindsay’s statement that Lynn is an unacademic, data manipulating racist. He would put a country’s IQ as lower than what it is in order to produce a false trend (to make it look like IQ decreases as you go towards the equator) in order to advance his theory that high IQ is developed by cold weather evolution or whatever BS.

        1. It would be interesting to see what an accurate Vietnamese IQ average would be, considering that the current “score” circulating around is just an average of the Thai and Chinese scores, of which we know the Thai score is inaccurately low (see my comment above).
          I would also be interested in seeing more comprehensive data on the breakdown between Chinese provinces, perhaps also taking ethnic groups and subethnic groups into account. I would suspect that the discrepancies are more complicated than a simple north=higher IQ; south=lower IQ. After all, Cantonese, Hokkien, and Hakka peoples have all done pretty well for themselves academically, particularly the Hakkas, who have produced many political leaders. Historically, lots of scholars have been based in cities such as Fuzhou and Guangzhou as well. I think most of the sentiment of northern superiority stems from the assumption that because southern Han are transitional between NE Asians and SE Asians, then their IQs should be as well (doubtful without evidence). If the Wu-speaking geniuses in Zhejiang province place first in China, then the Min-speakers shouldn’t be too far off, considering that there is a strong Min substratum in the Wu Chinese dialects, which gets stronger and stronger the further south you go (like in Wenzhou). Southern Zhejiang has historically received extremely little immigration from the north, yet Wenzhou and Qingtian still produce the most cunning “Jews of the Orient.”
          The other candidate for “Jews of the Orient” in China are the Hakkas, another southern Chinese group closely related to the Cantonese, despite the bickering. A surprisingly high proportion of Chinese politicians all across China, Taiwan, and Singapore are of Hakka ancestry. The stereotypical Hakka man stays inside the house all day reading and studying while the woman tends the fields. If that doesn’t contribute towards self-selecting for brains, then I don’t know what does! I’d like to see an average Hakka Chinese IQ. I just hope IQ doesn’t become another bickering point in trying to prove anyone’s superiority
          Overall, I think that the race-IQ studies that started trickling out in the 1970s should have been more responsible in gathering data for different countries, rather than haphazardly averaging out available data that was questionable in the first place, since in essence that’s condemning a whole nation into insecure self-doubt about their intellectual capability. There’s no problem in researching IQ and ethnicity if you decide you want to be as objective and accurate as possible, but unscrupulous motives probably ruined the whole study, making the whole thing a way to cook data to support some Ice Age theory.
          Btw, I’m mixed between north and south (everything from Shandong to Jiangsu to Hakka and more) so I should be reasonably unbiased, right? 🙂 I’m not trying to stir up any regional chauvinism or anything, I just don’t like it when Northern Han regard themselves as superior to Southern Han, and vice versa.

        2. One thing I think that’s important is that IQ is useless if it isn’t nurtured. Germany, France, and the UK are nations known to have a high average IQ that don’t typically beat Vietnam in these competitions either. In the end, their students end up more productive scientifically. The real difference is that their talented pupils have better schools that develop their talents further (Vietnam does not have any real equivalence to Oxford etc…). Vietnam has all these really talented mathematicians that prove themselves on the international stage early on in life, who then end up going to universities in Vietnam and then end up as your run of the mill high school math teacher in their home towns. Truly a waste of talent (nothing wrong with teachers, but they are better suited elsewhere is all). Imagine if Einstein was born in the rice patties… Probably wouldn’t have discovered E=MC2 would he?
          But Moveon raises a further point that is even more interesting, the IQ disparities WITHIN nations rather than between. Vietnam is an obvious thorn in the side for anyone, but what about WITHIN nations? That’s a good question. I know, traditionally, Northern Chinese are considered more like farmers, more conservative and traditional. Northern Chinese are more direct at what they want. Southern Chinese have always been considered more shrewed and quicker witted, more open and liberal. Some of the stereotypes of Northern Chinese would be things like military men, farmers etc… whereas the South have always been stereotyped as the more scholarly, entrepeneurial, artsy type. This is the traditional observations of the people. In a way, the Northern Chinese would kind of be like the Southern US, and Southern China is more like the US Northeast. It’s weird for someone to suggest that New York has a lower IQ than Texas, and similarly, it’s weird for someone to suggest that Southern Chinese are inferior to those of the North. I would like to see some more data on this if possible, preferably not from Lynn (the guy obviously does not understand that data is supposed to be objective, so I can’t trust his data collection skills and number crunching at all).
          Sorry for detracting from SE Asia, but I’m looking at this more academically so all of these concepts are pretty interesting (I’m trying to write a paper on immigrants and academic performance actually and I’m just reading random blogs to get a general idea of where to take it, I’m not even Vietnamese or Chinese actually, I’m only pointing out the obvious thorns in Lynn’s side). What I can see so far is that groups that came as refugees are a better representation of their nation on average, whereas immigrants that came via other visas tend to be smarter. This is not because the general population of India is smarter than Vietnam, for example, but because of the different selection factors, Indians that end up being allowed to enter the US are the elite of India. Whereas the Hmong here are the average Hmong, so we see Hmong from all walks of life, whereas we’re usually only seeing elite Indians. Because of this we develop the stereotype that Indians are super smart overall, everywhere in the world, but the truth is that the Indians are simply really smart in the US, but it’s not necessarily true that Indians in general are super smart. The Indians here are probably much smarter than the Indians in India (on average). Just my observation.

  10. I mean most have double eyelids, not that most don’t on the above post (if you can change that for me before approving it and just delete this one, that would be great)

  11. wasn’t it the Hmong that were featured in Clint Eastwood’s film Gran Torino? Clint’s racist, miserable old Korean war vet character finds a new lease of life and redemption through his unlikely relationship with a Hmong(?) boy. Something like that. He defends a Hmong kid against some blacks kids at one point in typical Clint badass style.
    Changing the subject, the figure of 70 is always knocking about on the internet for sub saharan African IQ. I think Lynn is the source of this but I was wondering if there are other studies that back this up? why is everyone taking it as gospel? I found this about it
    and Hi Robert. I hope you are happy and well.

      1. About 25% of indian men are sexual molesters , roughly 430 million young indian men below 30 have committed rape, molestation
        Indian man problem
        Most indian young adult hindutva supporters are virgins who are worse in social skills, so they spam and troll on internet
        Internet porn and Trolling addiction is rampant on insecure indian men

    1. Well see now the traditional defintion of White (in a sociocultural context) has been Euro Caucasoids only. In a Scientific context White was /is synonymous with Caucasoid.
      So that said, the cultural definition of White did not include MiddleEasterners.

  12. I was delighted to find your post when I Googled Vietnamese national IQ, after having searched Lynn’s book ‘IQ And the Wealth of Nations’ and failing to discover the source of his Vietnamese national IQ score (96, on page 141).
    I was disappointed, however, when you repeatedly referred to Lynn as racist, without the slightest attempt to provide evidence to support that claim. How did that add to the discussion? [And how would it add to the discussion even if you did provide evidence? Even a racist can present accurate data, and if s/he does, why should the data be ignored?]
    To me Lynn comes across as honest, and willing to present his evidence (even though I could not find the source for his Vietnam IQ, which disappointed me). I value evidence a lot, and I value people who value evidence. You presented a lot of it and made an argument against Lynn’s number, but by peppering it with charges of racism it made me less interested in following the rest of your argument.
    You also attacked Lynn for his theory on why IQs around the world are different. Personally I would give him some slack on this – that does not appear to be his area of expertise. To me he does seem like the kind of person who would willingly have a discussion about his theories, be willing to consider new/alternative evidence, and be willing to adjust/abandon his theories based on it (of course we all have our priors, and don’t like to give them up, but Lynn has nothing to gain from hanging on to his in the face of strong evidence to the contrary).
    Of course I might be completely wrong about Lynn – I have not investigated him beyond reading a couple of his books – and if you have evidence to suggest he is racist I would be more than willing to examine it. If he is simply presenting bad data, however, the best argument against it is better data, not charges of racism (substantiated or unsubstantiated).
    I should add – I was investigating Vietnamese IQ because I am falling in love with a Vietnamese woman. Fortunately, as we all know, average IQs never predict individual IQs … and she seems very smart (which I value, just as I value data).
    Thanks for the very interesting post.

    1. Richard Lynn is just so ugly! He is a reactionary, too, BTW. And he has long associated with the Pioneer Fund, an extreme rightwing and very racist organization. Lynn has said that some races like Blacks and Aborigines are so poor in genetic stock that they are not capable of functioning in the modern world and they need to be “phased out.” He also talks a lot about eugenics. Just a sickening man, but really just a typical hereditarian and HBD’er. Almost all HBD’er are really reactionary people.

      1. I like most ethnics. I am starting to dislike Indians, but even there, a lot of them are ok, especially if they left India for the West or were born in the West. The Gypsies have a shit culture, and so do Indians. So do Nigerians. All three of them are just a bunch of immoral criminals. Screw that.

        1. What you said is only part true Robert. You can always take the Indian out of India but you can’t take the India out of the Indian. Even in Malaysia, they are still the same after more than 80 years here.
          Well about Nigerians, most crime syndicates and criminal acts by Nigerian in Malaysia and SEA are committed by Southern Nigerians. The northern Nigerians who are Muslim are mostly good people here and have a polite demeanor.
          From my observation the southern Nigerian can be thuggish, rude, likes to party all day at clubs (there are even nightclubs operated by them in Malaysia) like to wear lots of jewelry (no idea where they get the money to buy them) and love to have lots of girls as girlfriends (I can say they are the most macho guys in this country).
          Btw you should get to know a northern Nigerian person

      2. Remember Robert, Gypsies are Indians (same genepool) and they came from there.
        I want to hear more of Cyrus’s stories about Indians, Gypsies, Paki’s etc, they are really educating, funny and entertaining! Please share more Cyrus, your one of the few good posters here unlike Swedish Shit (Arab American idol worshipper) and Coward.

      3. Coward, don’t kid yourself, you have been raging on here about your problems instead of writing dissertations. I don’t even have the “sand nigger” phenotype but nice try there!

  13. This whole “They had to go thru harsh suffering to evolve a high IQ” is baloney.
    Probably one reason IQ is lower in these nations is cause the heat makes people lazy. Think about it? Why try hard when your in paradise.? However, take these people to where it’s colder (as of 2014), and they start trying harder.
    Also Iv’e seen plenty of lazy Americans, who won’t do anything with their life, despite the fact they live in a temperate zone, and their ancestor evolved in a temperate zone. And when I mean temperate, I’m not talking about subtropical, but maybe Canadian, or New York type weather.

    1. A lot of stuff has to do with the environment. You can take anybody, put them in an “army” kind of environment, and many will shape up, even people from so called “lazy races”.

  14. So I see that the last posts for this thread have been over a year a half ago, however I wanted to draw some attention towards some genetic research done on intelligence/IQ tests.
    Here’s the article:
    The trend in the results obtained from “predicted genotypic IQ” scores is consistent with actual national average IQ scores called “phenotypic IQ”. However, the only group that is considered SE Asian that was tested in that article was Vietnam which was actually categorized as “East Asian” along with China (both north and south Han groups) and Japan.
    The predicted genotypic IQ of Vietnam was the highest of all 26 populations tested, with IQ of 105.9. Vietnam’s East Asian neighbors follow immediately behind, China (Han North – 104.3, Han South – 103.6) and Japan (103.0). Overall, the East Asian group had the highest predicted genotypic IQ, followed by Europe, then Hispanics and South Asians, then African groups.
    What’s extremely remarkable about the findings is the level of consistency in the (almost mirrored) trend we see between actual IQ values vs. the predictive genotypic IQ. If you’ve read the article (or haven’t) and have questions about how the predictive genotypic IQ was determined for each group, contact me and I’d be happy to explain.
    If it were any kind of “scientific study” done on intelligence and IQ, it would be genetics-based research that I would trust in. I do understand there are certain confounding effects with how tests are conducted, but like all research, it must be replicated in order to determine a degree of accuracy via replicability.

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