Repost from the old site.
In this post we will look at the prehistory of the Asian or Mongoloid Race and some its subgroups. After humans came out of Africa about 70,000 years ago, they moved along the coast of Arabia, Southwest Asia, South Asia and eventually to Southeast Asia.
One Asian man’s rendering of modern Asian expansion, contrasted with the typical model. I don’t agree with either model, but I like the one on the left a little better. For starters, the yellow line on the map to the left should be hugging the coast quite closely and the brown and red lines should be radiating out from a base somewhere along the yellow line. Unfortunately, my artistic skills are not good enough to draw my own map.We think that these people looked something like the Negritos of today, such as those on the Andaman Islands.
At some point, probably in Southern China, the Mongoloid Race was born. The timeline, as determined by looking at genes, was from 60,000-110,000 years ago. As humans are thought to have only populated the world 70,000 years or so ago, it is strange that the timeline may go back as far as 110,000 years.
One thing that is very interesting is that there is evidence for regional continuity in Asia (especially China) dating back 100,000’s of years, if not millions of years. This is called the multiregional hypothesis of human development.
Though it is mostly abandoned today, it still has its adherents.
Some of its adherents are Asian nationalists of various types, especially Chinese and Indonesian nationalists. They all want to think that man was born in their particular country. Others are White nationalists who refuse to believe that they are descended from Africans, whom they consider to be inferior. The problem is that the Asians can indeed show good evidence for continuity in the skulls in their region.
A good midway point between the two, that sort of solves the conundrum, is that humans came out of Africa, say, ~70,000 years or so ago, and when they got to Asia, they bred in with some of the more archaic types there. The problem with this is that the only modern human showing evidence of pre-modern Homo genes in Mungo Man in Australia from 50,000 years ago.
There is evidence that as late as 120,000 years ago, supposedly fully modern humans in Tanzania were still transitioning from archaic to modern man. Ancient South African humans 100-110,000 yrs ago looked like neither Bantus nor Bushmen.
Nevertheless, we can reject the multiregional theory in its strong form as junk science. We also note cynically that once again ethnic nationalists and regular nationalists, including some of the world’s top scientists, are pushing a blatantly unscientific theory. Yet again ethnic nationalism is shown to be a stupidifying mindset.
There must be a reason why ethnic nationalism seems to turn so many smart people into total idiots. I suspect it lies in the fact that the basic way of thinking involved in ethnic nationalism is just a garbage way of looking at the world, and getting into it distorts one’s mind similar to the way a mental illness does.
We think that the homeland of the Asians is in Southern China, just north of the Vietnam border. This is because the people with the greatest genetic diversity in Asia are found in Northern Vietnam. Since the Vietnamese are known to have largely come from Southern China, we can assume that the homeland was just north of the border. From there, all modern Asians were born.
This means all NE and SE Asians, Polynesians, Micronesians and Melanesians came out of this Asian homeland.
School kids in Hothot, a town in Inner Mongolia. There is some question about whether China really has a right to control this area. These Northeast Asians originally came from a homeland in SE Asia near the China-Vietnam border. As this race is only 9,000 years old, NE Asians could not possibly have gone through an Ice Age that molded their brains for high intelligence, as the racist liar and scientific fraud Richard Lynn claims .There is even evidence that the Altaics of Siberia originated from the SE Asian homeland. They are thought to have moved out of there to the west and north to become the various Altaic groups such as the Buryats. Later Caucasian lines came to the Altaics from the West.
A Mongolian man on the steppes with a grazing animal and possibly a yurt in the background. Yurts are conical structures that the Mongolians still live in. I believe that Mongolians also eat a lot of yogurt, which they cultivate from the milk of their grazing animals. Note the pale blue eyes and somewhat Caucasian appearance.My astute Chinese commenter notes: “While Mongolians do have ‘Caucasian genes’, they look distinct from Uighurs, who are mixed. I’m thinking Mongolians and Central Asians lie in a spectrum between Caucasoids in West Asia and “Mongoloids” in Northeast Asians, while Uighurs were the product of Central Asian, West Asian, and Northeast Asian interbreeding.”
In fact, all of these populations are on the border genetically between Caucasians and Asians.
A Mongolian woman. Note short, stocky appearance with short limbs to preserve heat in the cold. Note also the long, moon-shaped, ruddy face, possibly red from the cold weather. Are those ginseng roots in her hand?
More Mongolians, this time with what look like grazing reindeer in the background. Mongolians herd reindeer? Note once again the long, flat, moon-shaped face, the almost-Caucasian features and especially the pale blue eyes of each woman. I cannot help but think that both of these women also look like Amerindians. Neither would be out of place at a pow wow.
More Mongolians, this time a Mongolian boy. Other than the eyes, he definitely looks Caucasian. He looks like a lot of the kids I grew up with in facial structure. Mongolians are anywhere from 10% Caucasian to 14% Caucasian.
From their Altaic lands, especially in the Altai region and the mouth of the Amur River, they moved into the Americas either across the Bering Straight or in boats along the Western US Coast. Another line went north to become the Northeast Asians. And from the Northeast Asian homeland near Lake Baikal, another line went on to become the Siberians.
An Evenki boy with his reindeer. Prototypical reindeer herders, the Evenki are a classical Siberian group. Strangely enough, they are related to both NE Asians and other Siberians and also to Tibetans. This indicates that the genesis of the Tibetans may have been up near or in Siberia.From 10-40,000 yrs ago, the Siberian population was Mongoloid or pre-Mongoloid. After 10,000 yrs BP (before present), Caucasians or proto-Caucasians moved in from the West across the steppes, but they never got further than Lake Baikal. This group came from the Caucasus Mountains. They are members of the Tungus Race and are quite divergent from most other groups genetically.
More Evenkis, members of the Tungus Race, this time some beautiful women and kids in traditional costumes. But this photo was taken in some Siberian city, so they may have just been dressing up. They probably have some Caucasian genes, as the nearby Yakuts are 6% Caucasian. Many of the Evenki women have become single Moms, because the men are seen as violent, drunk and a financial drain.Soon after the founding of the Asian homeland in northern Vietnam 53,000-90,000 yrs ago, the proto-Asians split into three distinct lines – a line heading to Japanese and related peoples, another heading to the North and Northeast Asians, and a third to the Southern Han Chinese and SE Asian lines.
A beautiful royal member of the Southern Han Dynasty in Hong Kong, member of the South China Sea Race. This race consists of the Filipinos, the Ami and the Southern Han from Guangdong Province. The Ami are a Taiwanese Aborigine tribe who made up the bulk of the Austronesians who populated much of island SE Asia over the past 8,000 years.These Southern Chinese people never went through any Ice Age, and the SE Asian Race is only 10,000 years old anyway. So why are they so smart? Unlike some NE Asian groups, especially those around Mongolia, the Altai region, the Central Asian Stans and Siberia, the Han have no Caucasian in them.
A bright Chinese commenter left me some astute remarks about the South Chinese IQ: “Some possible reasons for high South Chinese IQ’s: Chinese culture is very… g-loaded. For example, understanding the language requires good pitch, recognizing Chinese characters takes visual IQ and good memory, Chinese literature and history span 3,000-4,000 years for references, etc.
For several thousand years testing determined your social position (and it still does to some extent in Confucian nations). Those left in the countryside were periodically left to famine and “barbarian” invasions (slaughter).
Likewise, when Chinese people interbreed, there is strong pressure to breed into the upper class of a native population. Whatever caused the high selection when Chinese and Mon-Khmer/Dai groups interbred probably gave the Chinese immigrants leverage to marry into the upper classes when they did. This is something the Asian diaspora still tends to do.”
Regarding South Chinese appearance, he notes, “Lastly, the Chinese in Fujian have distinct features. They have thicker lips, curlier hair, more prominent brow, less pronounced epicanthic folds, etc. I’m in Taiwan now and I do notice it. I was at a packed market a while ago and was noting the way people look.”
As a result of this split, all Chinese are related at a deep level, even though Northern Chinese are closer to Caucasians than to Southern Chinese. Nevertheless, we can still see a deep continuum amongst Asian populations.
A Northern Chinese man with distinctly Caucasian features. Although they have no Caucasian genes that we can see anymore, they are still closer to Caucasians than to the Southern Chinese.The major genetic frequency found in Japan, Korea and Northern China is also found at very high levels in Southern China, Malaysia and Thailand, and at lower levels in the Philippines, Vietnam and Indonesia. Incredibly, even higher levels are found in Southern China, Malaysia and Thailand than in Northern China.
The proto-NE Asian or North Asian homeland was around Lake Baikal about 35,000 years ago. The Ainu and a neighboring group, the Nivkhi, are thought to be the last remaining groups left from this line. The Ainu are related to the Jomon, the earliest group in Japan, who are thought to have originated in Thailand about 16,000 years ago and then came up to Japan on boats to form the proto-Jomon.
The Jomon culture itself formally begins about 9,000 years ago. Japan at that time was connected to the mainland. Jomonese skulls found in Japan look something like Aborigines. Later, around 2,300 years ago, a group called the Yayoi came across the sea from Korea and moved into Japan.
The woman on the left is more Yayoi and the one on the right is more Okinawan. The Okinawans, members of the Ryukyuan Race, seem to be related to the Ainu, and they have a long history in the south of Japan. The Ryukyuan Race is a very divergent grouping.Most Japanese are members of the Japanese-Korean Race (like the Yayoi woman at left) but there is a divergent group in the South called the Southern Japanese Race, made up of the Honshu Kinki (the people around Kyoto) and the island of Kyushu. They may be more Okinawan than the rest of the mainland Japanese.
Over the next 2,300 years, the Yayoi slowly conquered and interbred with the Ainu until at the present time, the Ainu are nearly extinct as a cultural and racial entity. The Ainu have always been treated terribly by the Japanese, in part because they are quite hairy, like Caucasians.
The hairy body is thought to be a leftover from proto-NE Asian days, as some other groups in that area also have a lot of body hair. Despite the fact that they look down on the Ainu, about 40% of Japanese are related to the Ainu, and the rest are more or less related to the Yayoi. Actually, Japanese genetics seems a lot more complicated than that, but that’s as good a summary as any.
The Ainu. Though despised by the Japanese in part due to their Caucasian-like “monkey hair” on their bodies (note the guy’s hairy legs), the Japanese themselves are about 40% Ainu. The Ainu are members of the Ainu-Gilyak Race and are one of the most diverse groups on Earth.
A photo of Ainu Yasli Adam in traditional garb. I love this photo. Note that he could be mistaken for an Aborigine or a Caucasian. For a long time, the Ainu were considered to be Caucasians, but recent genetic studies have shown conclusively that they are Asians.The Ainu language is formally an isolate, but in my opinion it is probably related to Japanese and Korean and thence to Altaic, nevertheless I think that both Japanese and Korean are closer to Altaic than Ainu is. Genetically, the Ainu are closest to NE Asians but are also fairly close to the Na-Dene Amerindians. Cavalli-Sforza says they are in between NE Asians, Amerindians and Australians.
At this time, similar-looking Australoids who looked something like Papuans, Aborigines or Negritos were present all over Asia, since the NE Asians and SE Asians we know them today did not form until around 10,000 years ago.
There are still some traces of these genes, that look like a Papuan line, in modern-day Malays, coastal Vietnamese, parts of Indonesia and some Southwestern Chinese. The genes go back to 13,000 years ago and indicate a major Australoid population expansion in the area at that time. Absolutely nothing whatsoever is known about this Australoid expansion.
God I love these Paleolithic types. A Papuan Huli man, member of the Papuan Race, who looks somewhat like an Australian Aborigine. Although it is often said that Papuans and Aborigines are related, they are only in the deepest sense. In truth, they really do form two completely separate races because they are so far apart.Once again, while Afrocentrists also like to claim these folks as “Black”, the Papuans and Aborigines are the two people on Earth most distant from Africans, possibly because they were the first to split off and have been evolving away from Africans for so long. I don’t know what that thing in his mouth is, but it looks like a gigantic bong to me. There are about 800 languages spoken on Papua, including some of the most maddeningly complex languages on Earth.
NE Asian skulls from around 10,000 years ago also look somewhat like Papuans, as do the earliest skulls found in the Americas. The first Americans, before the Mongoloids, were apparently Australoids.
The proto-NE Asian Australoids transitioned to NE Asians around 9,000 years ago. We know this because the skulls at Zhoukoudian Cave in NE China from about 10,000 years ago look like the Ainu, the Jomon people, Negritos and Polynesians.
Waitress in Hothot, Inner Mongolia. Zhoukoudian Cave is not far from here. Note the typical NE Asian appearance. Mongolians are members of the Mongolian Race and speak a language that is part of the Altaic Family.We think that these Australoids also came down in boats or came over the Bering Straight to become the first Native Americans. At that time – 9-13,000 years ago, Zhoukoudian Cave types were generalized throughout Asia before the arrival of the NE Asians.
Northern Chinese prototypes from a photo of faculty and students at Jilin University in Northern China. People in this area, members of the Northern Chinese Race, are closely related to Koreans. Note the lighter skin and often taller bodies than the shorter, darker Southern Chinese. The man in the center is a White man who is posing with the Chinese in this picture.My brother worked at a cable TV outfit once and there was a Northern Chinese and a Southern Chinese working there. The Northern one was taller and lighter, and the Southern one was shorter and darker. The northern guy treated the southern guy with little-disguised contempt the whole time. He always called the southern guy “little man”, his voice dripping with condescension.
This was my first exposure to intra-Chinese racism. Many NE Asians, especially Japanese, are openly contemptuous of SE Asians, in part because they are darker.
Native Americans go from Australoids to Mongoloids from 7,000-9,000 years ago, around the same time – 9,000 years ago – that the first modern NE Asians show up.
Prototypical NE Asians – Chinese in Harbin, in far northeastern China. This area gets very cold in the winter, sort of like Minnesota. Keep in mind that this race is only 9,000 years old. Note the short, stocky body type, possibly a cold weather adaptation to preserve heat.Some of the earliest Amerindian skulls such as Spirit Cave Man, Kennewick Man, and Buhl Woman look like Ainu and various Polynesians, especially Maoris.
A Hawaiian woman, part of the Polynesian Race. Kennewick Man does not look like any existing populations today, but he is closest to Polynesians, especially the virtually extinct Moiriori of the Chatham Islands and to a lesser extent the Cook Islanders. Yes, many of the various Polynesians can be distinguished based on skulls. Other early Amerindian finds, such as Buhl Woman and Spirit Cave Woman also look something like Polynesians.It is starting to look like from a period of ~7,000-11,000 years ago in the Americas, the Amerindians looked like Polynesians and were not related to the existing populations today, who arrived ~7,000 years ago and either displaced or bred out the Polynesian types. Furthermore, early proto-NE Asian skulls, before the appearance of the NE Asian race 9,000 years ago, look somewhat like Polynesians, among other groups.
An archaeologist who worked on Kennewick Man says Amerindians assaulted him, spit on him and threatened to kill him because he said that Kennewick Man was not an Amerindian related to living groups, and that his line seemed to have no ancestors left in the Americas.
Furthermore, most Amerindians insist that their own tribe “has always been here”, because this is what their silly ancestral religions and their elders tell them. They can get quite hostile if you question them on this, as I can attest after working with an Amerindian tribe for 1½ years in the US.
To add further insult to reason, a completely insane law called NAGPRA, or Native American Grave Protection and Repatriation Act, mandates that all bones found on any tribe’s territory are the ancestors of that tribe and must be returned to the tribe for reburial. This idiotic law is completely anti-scientific, but most Amerindians, even highly educated ones, get pretty huffy about defending it (Trust me!).
Hence there has been a huge battle over the bones of Kennewick Man. Equally idiotically, White Nationalists insist that Kennewick Man is a Caucasian, so that means he is one of theirs. They also use this to conveniently note that Whites occupied the US before the Indians, and therefore, that the Amerindians implicitly have no rights to the place and that the land-theft of Amerindian America by Whites was right and proper.
This is even more insane than Zionism by orders of magnitude. First of all, Kennewick Man is not a Caucasian! He just sort of looks like one. But that is only because Polynesians, the Ainu and even Aborigines look somewhat Caucasian. This is not due to Caucasian genes, but is instead simply a case of convergent evolution.
These dual episodes above, like the Asian paleontologist morons above, adds weight to my hypothesis that ethnic nationalism, and nationalism in general, turns people into dithering morons. Among other reasons, that is why this proudly internationalist blog casts such a wary eye on nationalism of all kinds.
The prehistory of SE Asia follows a similar storyline. Once again, all of SE Asia was inhabited by Australoids. They probably looked something like the Negritos of today. Skulls from 9,000-11,000 years ago in SE Asia (including Southern China) resemble modern-day Australoids.
The oldest skulls in Vietnam look like Negritos. 25,800 yr old bones from Thailand look like Aborigines and the genes look like the Semang, Negritos of Thailand and Malaysia. There are skulls dating back 44,000 years in Malaysia and these also look like Aborigines. Some say that the Semang go back 50,000 years in Malaysia.
Andaman Islands Negritos. This type was probably the main human type all throughout SE Asia, and a variation of this type was in NE Asia too. These are really the first people to come out of Africa. Afrocentrists like to say that these people are Black, but the truth is that these people are very far away from Black people – in fact, they are Asians.Andaman Islanders have peppercorn hair like the hair of the Bushmen in Africa. This would differentiate this group from the woolly-haired Negritos in the Philippines. Genetic studies have shown that the Andaman Islanders are quite probably the precise remains of the first people to come out of Africa.
Genetically, they tend to resemble whatever group they are living around, with some distinct variations. In truth, this group here, the Andamans, is one of the “purest” ethnic groups on Earth, because they have been evolving in isolation for so long. This is known as genetic drift. At the same time, I think there is little diversity internally in their genome, also due to drift.
The Andaman Negritos are part of the Andaman Islands Negrito Race. Their strange and poorly understood languages are not related to any others, but there is some speculation that they are related to Kusunda in Nepal, a language isolate. I tend to agree with that theory.
One of the problems with genetic drift is after a while you get an “island” effect where the population lacks genetic diversity, since diversity comes from inputs from outside populations. Hence they tend to be vulnerable to changes in the environment that a more genetically diverse population would be able to weather a lot better.
Although racist idiot Richard Lynn likes to claim that all people like this have primitive languages, the truth is that the Andaman languages are so maddeningly complex that we are still having a hard time making sense out of them.
As in the case of Melanesians, Papuans and some Indian tribals, Afrocentrists like to claim that the Negritos are “Africans”, i.e., Black people. The truth is that Negritos are one of the most distant groups on Earth to existing Black populations. Negrito populations tend to be related, though not closely, with whatever non-Negrito population are in the vicinity. This is due to interbreeding over the years. Furthermore, most, if not all, Negritos are racially Asians, not Africans.
Another misconception is that Negritos are Australoids. Genetically, the vast majority of them do not fall into the Papuan or Australian races, but anthropometrically, at least some are Australoid. There is a lot of discrimination against these people wherever they reside, where they are usually despised by the locals.
White Supremacists have a particular contempt for them. As a side note, although White Supremacists like to talk about how ugly these people are, I think these Negrito women are really cute and delightful looking, but do you think they have large teeth? Some say Negritos have large teeth.
Around 8,500 years ago, the newly minted NE Asians, who had just transitioned from Australoids to NE Asians, came down from the north into the south in a massive influx, displacing the native Australoids. We can still see the results today. Based on teeth, SE Asians have teeth mixed between Australoids (Melanesians) and NE Asians. Yet, as noted above, there are few Australoid genes in SE Asians.
8,500 years ago, NE Asians moved down into SE Asia, displacing the native Australoids and creating the SE Asian race. If NE Asians are so smart though, I want to know what these women are doing wearing bathing suits in the freezing cold. Compare the appearance of these Northern Chinese to other NE Asian mainland groups above.A prominent anthropology blogger suggests that a similar process occurred possibly around the same time in South Asia and the Middle East, where proto-Caucasians moved in and supplanted an native Australoid mix.
One group that was originally thought to be related to the remains of the original SE Asians is called the Yumbri, a group of primitive hunter-gatherers who live in the jungles of northern Laos and Thailand. Some think that the Yumbri may be the remains of the aboriginal people of Thailand, Laos and possibly Cambodia, but there is controversy about this.
Yumbri noble savages racing through the Thai rain forest. The group is seldom seen and little is known about them. They are thought to number only 200 or so anymore, and there are fears that they may be dying out. This paper indicates via genetics that the Yumbri are a Khmuic group that were former agriculturalists who for some odd reason gave up agriculture to go back to the jungles and live the hunter-gatherer way.This is one of the very few case cases of agriculturalists reverting to hunting and gathering. The language looks like Khmuic (especially one Khmu language – Tin) but it also seems to have some unknown other language embedded in it. Genetics shows they have only existed for around 800 years and they have very little genetic diversity.
The low genetic diversity means that they underwent a genetic bottleneck, in this case so severe that the Yumbri may have been reduced to only one female and 1-4 males. It is interesting that the Tin Prai (a Tin group) has a legend about the origin of the Yumbri in which two children were expelled from the tribe and sent on a canoe downstream. They survived and melted into the forest where they took up a hunter-gatherer lifestyle.
The Khmu are an Austroasiatic group that are thought to be the indigenous people of Laos, living there for 4,000 years before the Lao (Thai) came down 800 years ago and largely displaced them from the lowlands into the hills. The Austroasiatic homeland is usually thought to be somewhere in Central China (specifically around the Middle Yangtze River Valley), but there are some who think it was in India.
They moved from there down into SE Asia over possibly 5,000 years or so. Many Austroasiatics began moving down into SE Asia during the Shang and Zhou Dynasties due to Han pushing south, but the expansion had actually started about 8,500 years ago. At this time, SE Asia was mostly populated by Negrito types. The suggestion is that the Austroasiatics displaced the Negritos, and there was little interbreeding.
The Austroasiatic languages are thought to be the languages of the original people of SE Asia and India, with families like Sino-Tibetan, Tai-Kadai, Indo-European and Dravidian being latecomers. There are possible deep linguistic roots with the Austronesian Family, and genetically, the Austroasiatics are related to Sino-Tibetan, Tai-Kadai and the Hmong-Mien speakers.
There is an interesting paradox with the Southern Chinese in that genetically, they look like SE Asians, but they have IQ’s more like NE Asians, around ~105. There do not seem to be any reasonable theories about why this is so. It is true that NE Asians came down and moved into SE Asia, but they moved into the whole area, not just Southern China, yet SE Asian IQ’s are not nearly as high as Southern Chinese IQ’s.
Of relevance to the IQ debate is that Asians, especially NE Asians, score lower on self-esteem than Blacks, yet they do much better in school. This would tend to argue against the contention of many that Black relatively poor school performance is a consequence of them not feeling good about themselves.
This seems to poke one more hole in Richard Lynn’s theory that a journey through the Ice Age is necessary for a high IQ, as the Southern Chinese made no such sojourn.
As a result of the Northern and Southern mix in Southern China, groups such as the Yunnanese are quite a mixed group. Yunnanese are mostly southern and are extremely distant from NE Asians. The Wa are a group in the area that is almost equally mixed with northern and southern admixture.
Two pretty Laotian girls being starved to death by murderous Communist killers in Laos. The Lao are related to the Thai and are members of the Tai Race that includes the Lao, Thai, Aini, Deang, Blang, Vietnamese, Muong, Shan, Dai and Naxi peoples. The Lao language is a member of the Tai language family.The Thai are related to the Tai group in Yunnan in Southern China. They evolved there about 4,000 years ago and then gave birth to a number of groups in the region. The modern Thai are latecomers to the region, moving into the area in huge numbers only about 700 years ago to become the Lao, Thai and Shan. The Lao are the descendants of recent Tai immigrants who interbred heavily with existing Chinese and Mon-Khmer populations.
Gorgeous Dai women in China. The Dai are an ethnic group in China, mostly in Yunnan, who are related to the Thai – they are also members of the Tai Race and speak a Tai language . It looks like the Thai split off from the larger Dai group and moved into Thailand in recent centuries.The Dai were together with the Zhuang, another Yunnan group, as the proto-Tai north of Yunnan about 5000 years ago. They moved south into Yunnan and split into the Zhuang and the Tai. There were also Tai movements south into Vietnam via Yunnan.
More Dai, this time two young Dai men from Thailand. They do seem to look a bit different from other Thais, eh? They look a little more Chinese to me. The Thai are not the only ethnic group in Thailand; there are 74 languages spoken there, and almost all are in good shape. These people apparently speak the Tai Nüa language.
A proud Dai father in China, where they Dai are an official nationality together with the Zhuang. He’s got some problems with his teeth, but that is pretty typical in most of the world, where people usually lack modern dental care.
A photo of a Thai waitress in Bangkok getting ready to serve some of that yummy Thai food. Note that she looks different from the Dai above – more Southeast Asian and less Chinese like the Dai. The Thai are also members of the Tai Race.
Another pic of a Thai street vendor. The Thai are darker and less Chinese-looking than the lighter Dai. The Tai people are thought to have come from Taiwan over 5,000 years ago. They left Taiwan for the mainland and then moved into Southwest China, which is thought to be their homeland. Then, 5,000 years ago, they split with the Zhuang. The Zhuang went to Guangxi and the Tai went to Yunnan.
A Thai monk. Am I hallucinating or does this guy look sort of Caucasian? In Thai society, it is normal for a young man to go off and become a monk for a couple of years around ages 18-20. Many Thai men and most Lao men do this. I keep thinking this might be a good idea in our society. Khrushchev used to send them off to work in the fields for a couple of years at this age.
Nevertheless, most Yunnanese have SE Asian gene lines and they are quite distant from the NE Asians (as noted, NE Asians are further from SE Asians than they are from Caucasians).
More beautiful women, this time from Yunnan, in Communist-controlled China. Look at the miserable faces on these poor, starving women as they suffer through Communist terror and wholesale murder.Yunnan was the starting point for most of peoples in the region, including the Tai, the Hmong, the Mon-Khmer, the Vietnamese, the Taiwanese aborigines and from there to the Philippines, Malaysia, Indonesia, Melanesia, Polynesia and Micronesia.
In a sense, almost all of SE Asia was settled via a southward and southeastward movement out of Yunnan. Why so many groups migrated out of Yunnan is not known, but they may have being pushed out of there via continuous southward movements by Northern Han. Yunnan was seen as a sort of rearguard base and sanctuary for many Chinese ethnic groups who were being pushed out of their areas, mostly by Han expansions.
The terrain was rough but fertile. At some point, the Han started pushing down into Yunnan and that is when many southward expansions into SE Asia over the last 5000 or so years took place. A discussion of Asian racial features and their possible evolution is here.
Tibetans are close to NE Asians genetically, though they are located in the South. This is because they evolved in NE Asia and only recently moved down into Tibet. After coming into Tibet, they moved down into Burma. Many of today’s Burmese came from Tibet.
A Tibetan tourist in India. This woman has more of a classic Tibetan look than the younger woman below. Tibetans characteristically have darker skin than many NE Asians – Tibetans are actually NE Asians displaced to the south in fairly recent times. Although it is high and cold in Tibet, the region is at a more southerly latitude. Nevertheless, UV radiation is very intense in Tibet, which probably accounts for the darker skin.It looks like all humans were pretty dark at the start and in some cases have lost melanin in cold climes where they needed to lighten to get Vitamin D. White skin in Europe is merely 9,000 years old, so European Whites never went through any brain-sharpening Ice Age either.
Tibetans are members of the General Tibetan Race, which includes the Tibetan, Nakhi, Lisu, Nu, Karen, Adi, Tujia, Hui and Kachin peoples. They speak a Tibeto-Burman language, part of the larger Sino-Tibetan family.
My observant Chinese commenter notes about the Tibetans: “As for the Tibetans, they seem to be primarily Northeast Asian (they look to be the most “yellow” of any Asians) with some other (South Asian-looking) element that interbred with them fairly recently. They tend to also be more ruddy, and have skin tones from reddish to yellow to brown.
You can see some similarities with Burmese, but they are distinct. Another thing to note is that the prevalence of colored hair and eyes is relatively higher in Tibet.”
A gorgeous Tibetan woman, but to me she does not look typically Tibetan. Note that she seems to have put some whitening powder on her face – note contrast between her face and her darker hand.Although this blog supports Tibetan freedom and opposed the colonial Chinese takeover and racist ethnic cleansing of the Tibetan people by the Chinese Communists, it should nevertheless be noted that the wonderful regime that the Dalai Lama apparently wants to bring back was one of the most vicious forms of pure feudalism existing into modern times, where the vast majority of the population were serf-slaves for the Buddhist religious ruling class.
Yes, that wonderful religion called Buddhism has its downside.
The Buddhist paradise of Burma, run by one of the most evil military dictatorships on Earth (No satire in that sentence). I thought Buddhists were supposed to be peace loving?
A Burmese woman with classic Burmese features. The Burmese, better known as the Bamar, are members of the General Tibetan Race. Boy, she sure is cute. And yes, I do have a thing for Asian women. I think I need to retitle this post Hot Asian Babes.
There are several interesting points in the sketch above. First of all, much as it pains them to be compared to people whom they probably consider to be inferior, all NE Asians were originally Australoids similar to the Australian Aborigines.
NE Asians like to accuse SE Asians of being mostly an “Australoid” group, an analysis that is shared by many amateur anthropologists on the web. We will look into this question more in the future, but it appears that both NE and SE Asians are derived from Australoid stock. Further, there are few Australoid genes left in any mainland SE Asians and none in most SE Asians.
It is true that Melanesians, Polynesians and Micronesians are part-Australoid in that the latter two are derived from Melanesians, who are derived from Austronesians mixed with Papuans. Any analysis that concludes that non-Oceanic SE Asians are “part-Australoid” is dubious.
If anything, NE Asians are closer to Australoids than most SE Asians. The Japanese and Koreans are probably closer to Australian Aborigines than any other group in Asia. I am certain that the ultranationalist and racialist Japanese at least will not be pleased to learn this.
Second, we note that all Asians are related, and that the proto-Asian homeland was in northern Vietnam. It follows that NE Asians are in fact derived from the very SE Asians whom the NE Asians consider to be inferior. A NE Asian who is well versed in these matters (He was of the “SE Asians are part-Australoid” persuasion) was not happy to hear my opinion at all, and left sputtering and mumbling.
NE Asian superiority over SE Asians is a common point of view, especially amongst Japanese – the Japanese especially look down on Koreans (Their fellow NE Asians!), Vietnamese, Filipinos (the “niggers of Asia”), the Hmong (the “hillbillies of Asia”) and the Khmer.
The beautiful, intelligent, civilized and accomplished Koreans. Tell me, the Japanese look down on these people are inferiors why now? Note the rather distinct short and stocky appearance, possibly a heat-preserving adaptation to cold weather. Note also the moon-shaped face.The Koreans seem to have come down from Mongolia about 5,000 years ago and completely displaced an unknown native group, but don’t tell any Korean that. Koreans are members of the Japanese-Korean Race and the Korean language is said to be a language isolate, but I think it is distantly related to Japanese, Ainu and Gilyak in a separate, distant branch of Altaic.
My Chinese commenter adds: “I get the impression that Koreans are at least comprised two major physically discernible groups. Some of them have a shade of skin similar to the Inuit or Na Dene. But I think they have intermixed quite a lot during some relatively stable 5,000+ year period, which results in a fairly even spectrum.”
Third, Richard Lynn’s Ice Age Theory takes another hit as he can explain neither the Southern Chinese high IQ, nor the genesis of high-IQ NE Asians from lower-IQ SE Asians, nor the fact that NE Asians do not appear in the anthropological record until 9,000 years ago (after the Ice Age that supposedly molded those fantastic brains of theirs), nor the genesis of these brainy folks via Australoids, whom Lynn says are idiots.
Fourth, the Negritos, who are widely reviled in their respective countries as inferiors, are looking more and more like the ancestors of many of us proud humans. Perhaps a little respect for the living incarnations of our ancient relatives is in order.
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Rob, is the Caucasoid genes in Mongols on the maternal side? Most Mongols are haplogroup C3 and that is an exclusively Mongoloid marker.
Dunno.
When you said that NE Asians were closer to Caucasoids than SE Asians, where would the central Chinese, in Shanghai for example, be located? And who is more distant from NE Asians, Europeans or Middle Easterners?
Not sure. Most Chinese seem to be NE Asians with the exception of those in the very, very far south near the border with SE Asia.
Caucasians as a whole are closer to NE Asians than SE Asians are to NE Asians. No one Caucasoid group is closer than any other.
And by the same token, which Caucasoids have some Mongoloid in them? I read it was basically the Finns, the Russians, and the Balts, ironically one of the most Nordic looking people in the world.
Also Czechs, Hungarians, Turks, Iranians, Afghans, Pakistanis, Indians, Nepalis.
Most all Finno-Ugrics do.
Since Russia and eastern Europe are attached to Siberia, one can see the Mongoloid gene flow. But how do Iranians and Afghans, for example get MOngoloid genes with the vast deserts separating them from each other.
From the Stans.
“Since Russia and eastern Europe are attached to Siberia, one can see the Mongoloid gene flow. But how do Iranians and Afghans, for example get MOngoloid genes with the vast deserts separating them from each other.”
I would bet that many people in Iran and Afghanistan have more mongoloid DNA than Eastern Europe. Remeber that the mongols conquered Iran and so did the ghazvanid turks. The mongols also conquered russia, but have been described as “absentee rulers” who didn’t have constant contact with the conquered peoples who lived further north off the steppe. Of course most of these areas were affected by the ottomans and tamerlane too. It must also be remebered that the Russians could have inherited more asiatic genes in their expansion early in slavic history. To some degree the mated with the chuds (finnic peoples) and had contact with the Volga Bulgars.
Yes, Central Asia has much more Asiatic genes than Eastern Europe. Of course.
“Yes, Central Asia has much more Asiatic genes than Eastern Europe. Of course”
Are you considering Iran and Afghanistan to be Central Asia? I guess you can argue for including Tajikistan and maybe afghanistan, but Iran just does not seem central asian to me. Maybe I just associate modern central asia with Turkic people too much. I also associate central asia with the steppe. Iran just doesn’t seem to fit.
“These dual episodes above, like the Asian paleontologist morons above, adds weight to my hypothesis that ethnic nationalism, and nationalism in general, turns people into dithering morons. Among other reasons, that is why this proudly internationalist blog casts such a wary eye on nationalism of all kinds”
Utter bullshit. Yes, there are many nationalist who are morons, but there are also many internationalists who are morons. This is because most people are morons, regardless of their views on nationalism. Also, many of these groups who call themselves nationalists are probably not real nationalist any. At least not real ethnonationalists (the only real nationalists). I used to read a European nationalist board called Forum Stirpes where people claimed that american white nationalists and neo-nazis in general are not nationalists. There really look down on these people and use to expel them quite often. The forum is closed for posting now, but can still be read.
Nationalists are assholes. Just about anyone calling himself a nationalist nowadays is a stupid fucking asshole. They are generally what people would call ultranationalists.
The sensible nationalist is called a patriot. Nothing wrong with that, as long as it’s not jingoism.
Nationalism in its typical form (ultranationalism) is simply poison. The less of it the better.
Internationalism sucks ass too.
I think the best may be a sort of patriotism (I want what is best for my country) minus the jingoism and Patriotard crap.
Everything nationalists (ultranationalists) touch turns to shit and every word from their mouths is transmuted into a lie. They are slugs, the “niggers” of political ideology, the lowest of the low.
“The sensible nationalist is called a patriot”
A patriot is not a nationalist. A patriot is loyal to a state. A nationalist is loyal to a nation. Sometimes they might overlap, but not often.
The rest is just simply your unfounded opinions. I support nationalism, but do not like many of the practices many so called nationalists support. However, some of these tactics are just what marginalised political groups have always done. No intellegent person would support many of the anti-tsarist activites in late imperial Russia today. Russian neo-nazis killing immigrants is awful, but heathen garbage trying to kill the tsar is even worse.
“They are slugs, the “niggers” of political ideology, the lowest of the low”
That would be the CRT crowd, not nationalists. However, we can throw David Duke and his ilk in to this group too. They are not nationalists either.
I want what is best for my country. Am I a nationalist then? Ok, then why does it seem like 99% of those calling themselves nationalists are lower than sea slugs?
Anti-Czarist revolutionary activities were the right thing to do! Czarism was not good for Russia.
“Ok, then why does it seem like 99% of those calling themselves nationalists are lower than sea slugs?”
Well, maybe I’m an elitist, but it may be bacause most people are lower than sea slugs. Marginalized philosophies tend to draw from the outskirts of society and hence get many undesirables, but the quality of supporters does not necessarily reflect on the movement unless idiots get in charge and distort it.
“I want what is best for my country. Am I a nationalist then? ”
Depends on what country. If you live in an empire then probably not. It also depends on what you call the best.
I do not believe that nationalism is always the best, but it is better than mass immigration, culture destroying, perversion spreading liberalism of the open borders crowd. The Holy Roman Empire was infinitely better than Nazi Germany despite tha fac that it was multi ethnic. I not totally averse to some of the things I’ve heard about Franco though. He seems much better than Hitler and definitely better than a moron douchbag like David Duke. I feel like I’ve dirtied his name by even mentioning him in the same sentence as Duke. Duke is probably closer to many american libertarians than to Franco. David Duke…*BARF*
Rob, do you know of any Mongoloid genes in Arabs or the kikes?
@ Wade
I agree that the kikes who tried to overthrow the Tsar wer total scum.
Not sure.
I believe there are some Asiatic genes in the Lebanese.
The kikes who overthrew the Czar are my heroes!
“The kikes who overthrew the Czar are my heroes!”
Well, that’s pretty disgusting. A bright spot is that a few decades later these kikes got what they deserved from both Hitler and Stalin.
Frankly, I don’t like Nazis, but I like jews even less.
Yes, I include Iran and Afghanistan in Central Asia. Lot of Asian genes there.
” Lot of Asian genes there.”
You would classify a region totally on genes? We don’t agree there. Would you consider the Carribean to be part of Africa?
Wade, what do you have against Dr. Duke? And Rob, would you consider me right-wing or left-wing overall?
“Wade, what do you have against Dr. Duke”
First off, don’t call him doctor. He received his “doctorate” from a degree mill in Ukraine (location not a shock!).
Secondly, I don’t believe that american racism is the same thing as ethnonationalism. Also, Duke subscribes to several psuedohistorical white nationalist theories.
Wade, what do you make of John de Nugent, William Pierce, and Tom Metzger?
John de Nugent – Don’t know who he is. Is he related to Ted de Nugent?
William Peirce – Don’t really like him. Not an expert on what he has said, but I’m not a fan of neo-nazis in general. I know her wrote the Turner Diaries and they spoke of nuking Israel. I’m definitely down with that, but not other things he’s for.
Tom Metzger – Weirdo. He also promotes a lot of thugishness. He’s is the type of white nationalist who tends to embody all the “nigger” traits that he supposedly hates.
I really don’t like american white nationalists. Even Jared Taylor pisses me off quite a bit. Someone who was a nationalist who wanted to preserve american folk music and stories and the like over the current garbage known as american pop “culture” would be totally fine with me. The who idea of ethnicity being based on biology just seems horrible to me.
Jared Taylor is a philo-Semitic coward, so fuck him! And Tom Metzger is very populist economically. Here’s a video of him interviewing and crushing a retarded Reagan fan.
I fucking hate conservaTARDS!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lP9YPpGK3IQ
“And Tom Metzger is very populist economically. Here’s a video of him interviewing and crushing a retarded Reagan fan.”
Yes, I like what I’ve heard about some of his economic stances, but the guy still seems like a thug to me. Also, anyone who runs an organization with the word “Aryan” in the name who is not of Iranian origin is extremely suspect to me.
Kudos to Metzger for cruching a Reagan fan though. Reagan was a douche.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lP9YPpGK3IQ
“We think that the homeland of the Asians is in Southern China, just north of the Vietnam border. This is because the people with the greatest genetic diversity in Asia are found in Northern Vietnam. Since the Vietnamese are known to have largely come from Southern China, we can assume that the homeland was just north of the border. From there, all modern Asians were born.”
This is WRONG.
The Vietnamese are not from Southern China. They’ve been in the Red River Delta (Northern Vietnam) for aeons. In fact, Han census data from 2100 years ago shows that Northern Vietnam had spectacular population density, while Southern China was quite barren by comparison, relatively speaking.
Further, from a (mtDNA, matrilineal line) genetic diversity perspective: (1) Genetic variation within a population (variation within a genetic marker) tells how “old” it is. (2) If a part of a group splinters off and migrates, it’s genetic variation will be less. It will be a “younger” group, genetically speaking. (3) The people who stayed behind will have “older” genes, i.e. more genetic variation. This means some Southern Chinese population should have “older”/more variation in mtDNA markers than the Northern Vietnamese. BUT THEY DON’T.
ERGO: ASIAN POPULATIONS ORIGINATE FROM NORTHERN VIETNAM.
BTW, genetics aside, historians/archaeologists, both Western and Vietnamese now both agree the Vietnamese orginated in Northern Vietnam.
Fuck, looks like the video’s not coming on. Anyway search youtube for Tom Metzger and Wally George.
“The whole idea of ethnicity being based on biology just seems horrible to me”
….. Can you tell me more about how ethnicity can be anything OTHER than biologically based?
“….. Can you tell me more about how ethnicity can be anything OTHER than biologically based?”
Ethnicity is based on culture (ie language, religion, traditions, etc) and continous occupation of an area. That may lead to endogamy and forms of segregation, but that is merely a consequence and not a cause. I also believe that there can be very small amounts of assimilation from outside groups over several generations. This is real assimilation. Marrying into the local populace and adopting theri religion and traditions, not the BS USA idea of assimilation about “accepting our values”, whatever the hell those are.
“The whole idea of ethnicity being based on biology just seems horrible to me”
Often, ethnicity also connotes shared cultural, linguistic, behavioural or religious traits but endogamy and segregation of a select racial or genetic group is inherent to ethnicity.
Metzger is too thuggish, and would turn people off to the WN cause.
Hunter Wallace (over at Occidental Dissent) has become one of my favorite white nationalists. He’s one of the most pragmatic, level-headed, and realistic white nationalists you’ll ever encounter.
Unlike far too many white nationalists, who spew empty rhetoric and espouse esoteric racial theories, he seeks to work within the mainstream and do whatever it takes to win.
And I don’t see anything wrong with nationalism. The Chinese are incredibly nationalistic, and so are many other countries in the world. In China, Venezuela, and other countries, NATIONALISTS run their economies.
In the U.S., internationalist/globalist scum are in charge.
what is your opinion on David Duke and the A3P?
I like Hunter and OD as well but a lot of WN’s have him persona non-grata since he was active in a phishing scam at the Phora with another guy named Kane. A lot of the bloggers over at OD have left the site and now it seems its mainly just Hunter Wallace. lately he has become kind of pro-Tea Party Republican but most WN’s still don’t trust the Tea Party. There are bassically three branches of WN’s those who want to work within the GOP and Tea Party Movement, those who want a new party or movement such as A3P, and than their are the Vangaurdist who reject involvment in politics and believe in revolution.
BAG, have you ever considered starting your own blog?
“And I don’t see anything wrong with nationalism. The Chinese are incredibly nationalistic, and so are many other countries in the world. In China, Venezuela, and other countries, NATIONALISTS run their economies.”
Completely agree. Japan and Germany have trade surpluses with China. Corporate America (aka the masters of the GOP) is selling out the country by outsourcing all the good manufacturing jobs to China, Mexico, Vietnam, etc, while insourcing cheap labor from Mexico and Latin America and high tech labor from South Asia, East Asia, and Eastern Europe.
During the 1990’s, there was a shortage of cheap labor working in the fields; and the high-tech boom would have taken forever to explode without all the computer geeks from India, Engineers from East Asia, and scientist from the former Soviet bloc countries. I don’t have any figures handy, but I’d easily estimate over 100,000 high tech workers per year from overseas.
Now? This is pure insanity. There are well over 2,000,000 out-of-work high tech workers in the US and they are still bringing in about 100,000+ foreigners. The cost of health care plays a key role here.
The lesson: When in doubt, blame the the HMO’s. And certainly… Wall Street for screwing over mainstreet.
Clearly robertlinday have never studied haplogroups.Mongolian genes are genetically mostly siberian and tungustic mongoloid ,only maybe about 20% popupulation has caucasian admixture and most of them came from caucasian women or white females. Haplogroup C3 is an male mongoloid gene, infact almost all mongolian male sides genes are mongoloid.You must be kidding me if you think that boy look mostly caucasian? WTH? how can you even say that. He looks 99% asian to me, I don’t see anything in that boy that is caucasian accept for light hair. The old man yes, but even so he looks at least 90% asian but is that considered mixed? Is like saying if an black guy who is 10% caucasian considered mulatto. If you want to look real mixed take a look at kristen kruek,russel wong,brandon lee.
ALSO THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS SOUTH CHINA SEA RACE.
Southern han are NOT RELATED with taiwanese aborigines and phillipines.The amis of taiwanese aborigines have haplogroup B4a1 at 44% and is found in about 20% phillipines but is found 0% in southern han.Taiwanese aborigines and filipinos are dominated by haplogroup O1a2 with frquencies as high as 90% and 46% and is distanced from south chinese O1 which is classified as O1a-M19 which is found in only 15% on AVERAGE on southern han.
I have to reply to this because it is full of wrong information.
B4a1 is found exclusively in mainland Asia, including Southern China. B4a1a which branched off from B4a1 is whats found in Island South East Asia.
“If anything, NE Asians are closer to Australoids than most SE Asians. The Japanese and Koreans are probably closer to Australian Aborigines than any other group in Asia.”
Most NE Asian do not have protruding browridges, it seems more SE Asias have that trait. Can you explain to me why you think Japanese and Koreans are related more closely to Australoids than NE Asians.
Close to the Ainu, an Australoid group.
The Ainu really seem like a northern admixture between Australoids and Caucasians. But other aboriginal Japanese were most likely Australoids in the broad sense, and in the narrow sense too as south Island Australoids were the first to develop a highly mobile deep sea fishing culture that could find Japan without too much trouble.
Yes thats true, but i’ve been to Japan many times. When walking down the street in central Tokyo you rarely see a Japanese guy with deep-set eyes and a broad Austroloid nose. I’ve never been to SE Asia and i don’t know where they get thier large eyes and broad noses from. I always thought it was due a autraloid admixture.(?)
Also do you think that koreans have the most extreme epicanthus of all the NE asians? Why is this? Some of them remind me of mongolions around the eye region.
While not wishing to rain on your parade, please ask permission before you post copyrighted images on your blog. The image of the aboriginal man is my image and I would appreciate at least a photo credit (as bloggers never pay for images!)
Sorry, I don’t post copyrighted stuff. I had no idea that that photo was copyrighted. I removed it from the site. All you have to do is ask and I will take it down.
Hey Robert if a person has a broad nose, as in wide in size, but sharp in length, is that an Australoid nose or Caucasoid nose? I’ve seen some East Asians with wide nose, but sharp point.
I have no idea about that sort of thing, sorry.
Wet rice cultivation, developed first along the Yangtze River in the fourth millennium BCE, accounts for the takeoff in the population of the northern Chinese, their establishment as the dominant culture, and the premium on intelligence as a selected trait. It was the most sophisticated, detail-oriented agricultural enterprise the world had ever seen. For it to succeed, the whole village participated as an organized unit. Rice cultivation also allowed a much greater contribution of females to productive labor, as a rice diet allowed earlier weaning of infants and cultivation tasks were more compatible with the duties of motherhood than those associated with food gathering or more extensive forms of agriculture.
Wherever rice culture encountered non-rice culture, the rice culture gained ascendance and became the local elite. Non-rice cultural groups that couldn’t assimilate (meaning accepting a lower class status within the rice group) were forced to migrate. All of these factors are illustrated by the replacement of the Jomon culture with the Yayoi culture in Japan. The Chinese immigrants quickly gained dominant status and Jomon holdouts such as the Ainu retreated.
Thank you for this most interesting post. You may well be correct.
However, the Yayoi were Korean, not Chinese.
OTOH, Korean (and Japanese) civilizations have been heavily Sinitic for a very long time now.
Well….Yayoi refers to the Sino-Jomon fusion in Japan. When the Chinese rice culture encountered aboriginal Korean culture, it most likely established dominance the way it did in Japan and everywhere else (with allowance for folk traditions and such). The first proto-historical centralized polity in Japan, under Queen Himiko, made tribute to the Chinese emperor. Virtually all of the marks of high status were imported from Chinese culture. Chinese literacy and writing became highly valued skills.
Well yeah, Korean culture = Chinese culture, at least if you go back a ways. I believe that 70% of the Korean language is Chinese borrowings.
this is probably the best article I have read so far about the Mongoloid well done rob
Thank you Jeremy!
Great article Robert!
Richard Lynne get outta here!
He takes the ice age so seriously his brain freezes up as he goes into some kind of racial epiphany that leads him to say crazy stuff.
I am sending one of my mongoloid made mongoloid androids to tell him:
“I have never been anywhere near an ice age. The people who made me never went any near an ice age.”
As a parting gift a sticker will be planted on his forehead. This will read:
Beware! Frozen Ice age Brain!
Thank you MAARZ! If you like the site, you may want to donate to it. After all, I know you are rich so you might as well.
http://robertlindsay.wordpress.com/contribute/
Re: primitive languages, it seems that languages of urban civilizations tend to be quite analytical (English, French, Mandarin), whereas early human languages might have been more synthetic.
It’s hard to know if this is a universal tendency though or whether we can use it to reason anything about the earliest languages.
I tend to agree with you, but the idiot linguists will string you up in public for saying that.