Black People :(

There are certain things that White people cannot stand about Black people. I mean a certain type of White person (like me), and of course I refer to a certain type of Black person. I realize that there are now “Whites” who think this kind of Black behavior is cool.
This morning, I had my windows open (bad idea).
I heard “kids fighting” outside my window. It went on and on for way too long. There was an unpleasant aura of menace about it. You don’t hear this sort of vibe around here much because Mexicans don’t act like this unless it is groups of teens or young men (gang types) fighting or menacing each other. Believe it or not, that’s a rather rare occurrence here. And that only happens at night, usually around 8-10 PM.
Finally my curiosity got the better of me, in part because I worried they were yelling epithets at me (due to the menacing sound of the talk).
I went to the window, and it was nothing. Two young Black women, apparently single Moms or babysitting for kids. One Black single Mom with an elementary school girl who was beating up on a much younger elementary school boy. Another Black woman holding the baby. The women yelling at and chasing the kids, on and on. Everyone speaking in a very loud tone of voice, much too loud. Everyone seemed happy. They were acting normal. The problem was they were acting like animals. I shook my head and left.
Later, I heard more “fighting.” It had the same vibe about it, an aura of menace combined with way too loud voices and the sound of people arguing or fighting. Once again, I was alarmed by the menacing vibes and went to check. I was surprised to find a young Black woman and a young Black man, both in their 20’s. The man had a pit bull with him. From the sound of their way too loud voices and the tone, it seemed like an argument. It took just a bit for me to figure out that this was apparently a pleasant conversation between friends! Once again, it was just Black people acting normal. Once again, the problem is that they were acting like animals.
Alpha Unit, my co-author, calls Blacks like these “Underclass Blacks.” Others call them “low class Blacks”or “ghetto Blacks.” I don’t have a problem with those characterizations. I realize that not all Blacks act this way, and that there are now millions like her and our commenters who act more like me than these Underclass folks.
Some of my Black commenters seem to hate Underclass Blacks more than I do. I don’t necessarily hate them; they’re repellent, and I want to avoid them. Plus they remind me of wild animals, and I’m an animal lover. And there is something pitiful about them.
However, I’m not sure about the usual Black rejoinder that plenty of Whites act this way too. But they don’t, you see. Sure, there are Whites who act bad, but they act bad more or less in “White ways.” There are almost zero Whites who habitually act the way that these Blacks above do. Not even wiggers. Sure, Whites shit-talk, but they do it to fight, not to be normal, happy and friendly.
For all I know, this is a Black thing.
This is one of those things about Blacks that we Whites really don’t like!
It’s as if it’s a direct refutation of everything that White culture is about.
I call this meaninglessly loud and menacing behavior “the casual violence of everyday life” among Underclass Blacks. It’s part of their quotidian existence, like shaving or getting out of bed. So normal it’s almost boring.

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215 thoughts on “Black People :(”

    1. I don’t know! It reminds me of my cats fighting in the living room! I mean, I feel the same way towards these folks as I do towards my cats. I grab the water spray bottle to go out and break it up, but I know they can’t help it. Hell, they are just being normal.
      There is something animalistic about the fact that they seem to be fighting most of the time, even when they are being friendly and being nice. When they are happy and having fun, they are fighting. How can you tell when they are really fighting?
      There is something so low, so rude, so uncouth about this. It’s hard to describe. When Whites do this, they are shit-talking. They aren’t really being friendly.
      I’ve even heard Mexicans kids play a lot. Sure, I guess they fight sometimes. But it’s sporadic. They fight, one cries, then that one fights back, then the crying one is laughing. There isn’t this animalistic constant sadistic bickering just to exist thing going on.
      Wild animals always seem sort of angry and pissed off, even I guess when they are happy and having a good time. I think that’s why it seems animalistic.

      1. I am African American myself (attending an all black highschool with gangs and loud noise). I read the responses just out of curiosity. What I have noticed about whites and other races worldwide is that nobody questioning what the mentality change is from our roots in Africa to current day black America.
        We were not the only race deemed uncivilized by the western man (whiteman’s burden). Also members of other races have not came in contact with any one of African decent, but still hate us very much. Now what confuses me is how 400 years of slavery we were not allowed to learn, and even in the following decades not allowed in certain schools or just civil peace to live normal. Only a short few decades before the 2000’s blacks started to get their fair share of education. Now the violent harm done to blacks led to the start of the first black gangs for protection in big cities. Along the protest and violence there were lower class blacks who could not afford living so these gangs also sold drugs. The growth of one black gang led to the growth of another to counteract each other (Ex. Crips and Bloods). It takes just as long to build up personalities as it does to change them. Personalities are also passed down through generations.
        Most think well they should get off of the streets now and get jobs/education. Well in areas that are predominately black, schools do not teach as well as a white schools do. Even in suburbs black schools do not have enough in their budget nor do teachers really care to teach. If you live in Chicago or ever visit take a very close look at south suburban schools. A while back blacks were moved out of the city to the suburbs in large numbers while whites moved away at the same rate. The schools are mostly black(95% or more), and further south, all white. The closest school to my current school that is all white will not allow any one in the black schools, like my school, to transfer or play against each other in school sports.
        At one time I attended a high school located in small country town in North Carolina that was integrated in the 90’s. It is now 1/3 black, 1/3 white, and 1/3 mexican. The racist whites were close to very ignorant black students who claimed crip or blood.I know that they are racist because in rooms without black people in them I overheard the the most horrible conversations about blacks, like one sayng “Do black people clean themselves, is the black on their skin just dirt?” If you did not fall into the thug category were treated with disrespect and whites used blacks to fight blacks instead of doing it themselves. It seems as if blacks are not the only one who think being a thug is cool, every time someone acts like a black thug it is said that they are “acting black”. They associate the term ghetto with our skin tones, but they forget about the ghetto mentalities of all human beings on the face of the earth. Somehow I give off a vibe that gives me my respect even if I’m hated by anyone, i dont even look as agressive as they say we look. All I’ve done in my spare time since the age of 9, is just learned and studied about chemistry, and now physics,quantum theory, calculus, other maths such as set theory and topology all because of what I dream of doing when I get older.
        I hear lots of criticism about pants sagging and the slang blacks speak along with the noise level. Well let shine a little light apon that: if you learn another language lets say spanish for example, The native spanish speakers in Latin america or Spain will not speak formal English at all times, slang is made by all and different for certain areas. The slang spoken in North Carolina is not the same in Illinois. Everyone on earth has their form of comfortable shortcut talking or “slang”, that they don’t use at all times when it calls for high intelect. Another white school in the county in North Carolina was mostly white, if a black student sagged his pants he was suspended or expelled, on the other hand whites who did this were just told to pull them up. In all honesty other races are just as loud or louder than blacks in black schools there is the smae noise level. The sound of white voices can elevate for no usefull reason due to the high piched tones. Try to watch a movie at a cinema where mostly whites hang out on a Saturday night.

    2. Yes! The loudness is definitely part of it! Other races get loud too, but usually when they do, there’s some serious shit going down. Black people do it just to be normal.
      Horrible!

      1. Of course, this is cultural. Some Black people are not acculturated into the mainstream, which wants everyone to be quiet, subtle, reserved, and so forth.

    3. Yes! It’s the loudness! That’s what it is. Whites and Mexicans *don’t get that loud unless they are going to fight*. These Blacks do it like they are eating a bowl of cereal in the morning, totally normal.

  1. The way I see black people is as follows: I can get along with them okay on an INDIVIDUAL (note: individual) level, and can even delve into controversial issues with them IF (and this is a big if) I know them well enough on an individual level.
    In spite of my racial views (which I feel no need to explain, since by now they’re pretty well known), I know that blacks are individual people, that not all of them are the same, that many of them are friendly, etc.
    And yes, I have had (and still do have) black friends.
    That being said, on a GROUP level, I am suspicious and am on guard when around black people. And not even out of any “blacks are criminals” stereotype. I’m not afraid of blacks stealing my stuff.
    I just notice that blacks, even some of my friends, have the “tude” and black anger deep down. It reveals itself in little ways.
    Therefore, I always have my racial guard up when around black people, always readying myself for the eventual black anger.
    Until I get to know a black person or he shows himself to be a cool guy, I’m always initially suspicious and on guard.
    And of course, it goes without saying that you have to be careful around ghetto blacks, like those in Oakland.

    1. Oh yeah, I’ve witnessed a good amount of TNB in the past.
      No gunshots or killings, mind you, but other forms of TNB (ie. being very loud and obnoxious, picking fights over the most trivial of things, very poor English, etc).
      These stereotypes are not just wicked figments of the white man’s imagination invented out of thin air.
      They exist for a reason.

      1. This kind of stuff just makes me weary of anti-racists and blacks who insist that blacks really are wonderful souls who are wrongfully stereotyped and sabotaged at every given opportunity.
        Believe me, blacks are NOT the noble, humble people that they and their allies make them out to be.

        1. Okay, perhaps they’re not coming out and saying that blacks are humble, noble souls, but I get that vibe from many blacks and anti-racists.
          You see, since whites are not really human (on account of having “privilege” dehumanize them), have no souls, are arrogant, ethnocentric, etc, then blacks by contrast must be the complete opposite (truly human, soulful, humble, etc).
          In their minds, everything is a zero sum/opposite game to them. If whites are A, blacks are B.
          Of course, I too happen to think that whites are blacks are radically different, but in different ways, and coming from a non-CRT perspective.

        1. Poor English shouldn’t bother you unless in a professional setting.
          Poor English is indeed bothersome. Poor English conveys a low intellect and a lack of education.
          Basically, ebonics speaking blacks should stick a “I’m an uneducated and unsophisticated guy named DeShawn from the hood” sign on their backs.

        2. I disagree. While I think everyone should know how to speak standard English, what you are referring is simply a different dialect with its own set of rules. English varies widely around the world. Even within England itself, there are a variety of British accents, some pleasant on the ears, and some caustic and nearly unintelligible to outsiders. See this for example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dABo_DCIdpM&feature=player_embedded
          What we call ebonics is just another variant of English. I don’t think it makes you unintelligent. Others may perceive you that way of course. Same is true for those that speak with a heavy Southern drawl. In fact people often assume foreigners who speak with heavy accents are dumb. I just think people tend to assume those that speak in a way that in unintelligible are dumb. But clearly, that’s silly when you think about it.

        3. Of course, I know what you mean. There is no one English or one “proper” English, at least from a linguistic standpoint.
          Still, let’s be honest here. Do you have much respect for a black person (or ghetto Hispanics and Wigger whites who follow their example) who speak ebonics? Do you regard them as possessing a high intellect?
          I highly doubt it.
          Blacks are particularly notorious for poor subject-verb agreement. “You was a scared-ass nigga!” “Nah, that shit don’t work!”
          Then again, so are many white Southerners. For example, when I read “To Kill a Mockingbird” during the 8th grade at my Oakland middle school (which, in spite of being a private school, had a significant black population), and I started reading the first chapter of narration, I thought that Scout and her family was black, because they used a lot of the same poor grammar in everyday conversation that my black classmates used.
          Well, Thomas Sowell at least would argue that much of black cultural dysfunction comes from white Southerners and the legacy of living in a place like the South.

        4. Well, whether someone is dumb or not, I can’t necessarily tell by just their dialect. I’d have to talk to them and see if they can construct logical thoughts and have critical insights. For example, some guy may talk very ghetto, but be quite street wise, or have a lot of life wisdom. He has smarts that are relevant to the world he has to survive in where you and I probably wouldn’t last a day if we were forced to live there. Like you, yes I was raised by society to have a gut instinct that people who talk a certain way are dumb. But my critical thinking side tells me that’s illogical and speaking with a certain dialect or accent doesn’t doom someone to being dumb, per se. Obviously speaking standard English doesn’t guarantee someone to be intelligent, so how can the reverse be true?
          You mentioned the poor sentence structure. It may be incorrect structure when compared to official English, but in reality, it has it’s OWN rules of what is proper usage of language. To say, “she done *been left to the store” is perfectly valid black English. The asterisk means a stress on the word. If the word wasn’t stressed on “been” it wouldn’t make any sense. When been is stressed, it is an assertive way of saying not only that she left for the store, but that she left awhile ago as opposed to very recently. This stuff is all relative. There is mainstream American English, and there is black English. I’m not going to say one is right and one is wrong, they just have their own rules. Just like Brazilian Portuguese isn’t improper Portuguese, it just evolved into something different with its own rules and sense of what’s proper from Portugal Portuguese.

        5. Re: poor English;
          do a lot of black Americans switch between dialects depending on their audience?
          I guess an example would be someone like Will Smith, who speaks perfectly good standard English, but can switch to Ebonics when in rapper mode.
          I mention this because I hang out with a lot of Singaporeans, who when in a Western country speak pretty good standard English, albeit with an accent. But put them back in Singapore amongst their Singaporean friends, and straight away they start talking almost impenetrable Singlish (which is English littered with odd idioms and Chinese/Malay slang). Many of the lower-class Singaporeans ONLY speak Singlish though and would struggle to sound professional in a white-collar work environment. But middle-class Singaporeans can switch between these modes quite easily.

    2. BAG I’m not afraid of blacks stealing my stuff.
      You’ve got to admit BAG there is a lot of irony at a group of people who were stolen being labeled theives.
      *People can’t sell other people, so spare me the African sold other Africans argument. Even the slave traders knew what they were doing was wrong.

      1. You’ve got to admit BAG there is a lot of irony at a group of people who were stolen being labeled theives.
        Yeah, well have you, or any black person you know, been kidnapped, sold off to strangers, chained up in a crowded and humid bottom of a ship, and had to endure the middle passage?
        Don’t think so.
        People can’t sell other people
        Um, yes they can. This kind of thing has happened throughout history.
        so spare me the African sold other Africans argument. Even the slave traders knew what they were doing was wrong.
        Yeah, well it takes two to tango, doesn’t it? Without a supply, there can be no demand, and vice versa.

      2. Chic Noir, while I always regarded you as pleasant and reasonable compared to most blacks, you’re not a magical negro in my book.
        In fact, the whole concept of a “magical negro” is silly. I don’t need a magical negro to make me feel good.
        But yes, compared to many other blacks, I still find you far more reasonable and pleasant.
        Well, compared to most of the black woman over at the Abagondosphere, you’re like Angela McGlowan.
        Not that I’m calling you a house negro or anything! 😉

        1. BAG- the magical negro comment was a joke.
          Yeah, well it takes two to tango, doesn’t it? Without a supply, there can be no demand, and vice versa.
          and it takes only one to do the eletric slide.

        2. Yes Chic Noir, I know that the magical negro comment was tongue-in-cheek.
          In fact, you’ll notice that I responded with my own tongue-in-cheek comment by linking you with Angela McGlowan and jokingly hinting that you’re a house negro.
          I just think I needed to point out that I don’t need a magical negro.

  2. While there may exist a “casual violence of daily life” aspect to your observation, it teeters on racism. Simply take a trip to the South, particularly among poor communities and you will find this common there among both Black and non-Black folks.
    Being raised poor, I realize that loudness, excitability and prolific use of profanity is very much part of the culture of poverty. Some people explain the violence as an internalized self-contempt that is residual from the not-so-distant time of slavery.
    You must realize that your judgments carry a classist tone. Upper class whites have been conditioned to use “inside-voices”, “politeness” and etiquette. You carry on these remnants of aristocratic “sensibilities” when you call it “so low, so rude, so uncouth”.
    There is nothing wrong with being loud or excitable. It is merely that you, with your white middle-class upbringing perceive it as a threat or nuisance.

    1. Well, OK, then I’m classist and racist, no problem.
      I don’t know about this “culture of poverty” stuff. We have Blacks, White and Hispanics (mostly Mexicans) around here. You can hear them outside my window all day long. They are all poor or low income. The Whites are almost silent. The Mexicans, well, you can hear them, but Mexicans are generally *quiet*. There is a quietness about them. Now these Whites and Mexicans are just as poor as those Blacks, but they don’t act like that.
      What’s going on?
      What’s with the menacing undertone? When I get vibes like that from the Mexicans around here, I think there’s going to be a gang fight, and I’m afraid. With the Blacks, it’s just normal quotidian existence.

      1. I agree that black Americans are in general louder than white Americans. However, I often get irritated at how loud whites are. I’m quite soft-spoken myself and don’t like drawing attention to myself out in public so I tend to talk in a volume loud enough to be heard by the person I’m talking to, but someone sitting the next table over would have to strain to hear me. Most the people in my apartment building are young, professional whites. And sometimes I can be in my living room and hear their whole conversation from 50ft away in the courtyard. There are also some fratboy type whites that live in one of the units and they invite a lot of other “wooohooo bro where’s the keg??” type whites over who make a lot of noise. Being the quiet guy that I am, I’m highly sensitive to noise and hearing other people’s music, tv or conversation. Overall, it’s fairly quiet when everyone is inside their building, but white Americans do tend to be quite loud themselves by global standards. European whites(except Italians and Greeks) tend to be more soft-spoken and reserved. I could never live the ghetto due to the noise levels. I’ve spent time in ghettos and you’re always hearing someone’s bass or loud tvs or people screaming and having loud conversations. My noise tolerance threshold is VERY low.

    2. I was raised and live in the south. I come from a poor cotton miller family. We were not raised to be loud and obnoxious. Your statement again is an example of classic stereotyping that you are accusing someone else of.
      There are whites who will get loud and obnoxious in public. They are usually called “Rednecks”. Until Foxworthy came along, this term was viewed as bad, and indicated low intelligence, poor upbringing and poor social skills just like the author was eluding to.

  3. Glad you posted this. Seems there is yet another “educational” type PBS series currently making the rounds on Old South segregation.
    The episode in question featured the story of Emmit Till.
    Composed in a manner calculated to further inflame the Negro against Whites when for the past forty years Whites have been paying dearly
    for integration. Plenty of footage supposed to show the unfounded bigotry of Southern Whites circa 1950s.
    Bob’s illustrated behavior is experienced by all too many Whites. How many is “all too many?” Enough for smart Whites to recognize forced integration lowered the quality of their lives markedly. Bob says he avoids it. Most Whites do when possible. Many cannot, again, enough to make the cultured White miss the “atavistic” Traditional past by comparison.

  4. LOL I live in a so called “majority-minority” town of over 100,000 and honestly, I agree with you Robert. there are poor whites here, but they dont act like blacks. mexicans too are much more civilized than blacks. the blacks here walk around with their pants hanging low and their fat black bitches super loud and smell like weed and cuss and say “nigga” ALL THE TIME. ive been in the county jail here and blacks are over 90 percent of the inmates but the majority race is mexican here. the thing is, blacks just shouldnt be criminals. theyre too dumb. see russians and italians (and to a lesser extent mexicans) do dirt, but dont give off the criminal vibe.

  5. Probably the stupidest idea yet to gain common currency is that residential neighborhoods need diversity. I can see where public-contact employees might need to represent the community, like police officers or salesmen. But a residential neighborhood is supposed to consist of people with common expectations of community behavior. Diversity is not a strength if singles want to stay up partying at night while parent are putting kids to bed; or children want to ride bikes on the same sideways senior use.
    Do you think the residents of a quiet residential street do or should value the diversity of rap music blaring from rolled-down car windows?

  6. Well its seems I stumbled into a snake-pit of thinly veiled bigots.
    Ignorance and Racism is dripping off every word here.
    Since you all lack a brain to form a real analysis of anything Ill leave you pro-segregationist, anti-diversity dimwits to circle jerk each other.

    1. “Ignorance,” “racism,” “pro-segregationist,” “bigots.”
      I mean, wow, you manage to include all anti-racist smear words in your unoriginal and pathetic tirade.
      Seriously, when the likes of you can come up with better criticisms than simply tossing around overused words such as “ignorance,” “bigots,” and “racism” like confetti, then I’ll be impressed.

    2. I run this site, and this site is officially integrationist. I believe that people can go live anywhere they want to in this country.
      There are some segregationist commenters here, but I’m not one of them.
      I also believe in the *right to diversity*, but people like you seem to relegate it to some kind of fetish. Of course, people can go live anywhere they want to. If they wish to create diversified places, then they can move around in such a way as to create them. That’s their right of course.
      However, I would question whether diversity is automatically the wonderful thing you guys say it is. Clearly, there are problems with it. For one thing, the more ethnic ingredients in a place, the less stable it tends to be politically because the groups tend to fight for their own interests against the others. And recent research has shown that trust is lower, the higher the diversity.
      Of course, we still support the right to diversity here, but I want to point out that it’s not all peaches and roses.

  7. im not a White Nationalist or Seperatist ( stormfront considers me nonwhite because one of my grandparents was a Jew WTF) but I dont believe in “diversity” either. I think its essentially ethnic cleansing against whites, which is racist. and im strongly anti-racist! notice how nobody ever complains that Tokyo, Hong Kong, or Seoul arent diverse enough. that should tell you right there

    1. AJ notice how nobody ever complains that Tokyo, Hong Kong, or Seoul arent diverse enough. that should tell you right there
      Notice how Japan, China or Korea didn’t have worldwide colonies either. Nor did they have a large number of decendants of slaves* still around.
      It costs to be the boss mr. aj.

    2. Umm, Japan actually did have colonies and did oppress people.
      That’s basic history right there, Chic Noir.
      The only difference is that Japan doesn’t put up with minority crap or tolerate mass immigration.
      Now if only white countries would emulate Japan…

      1. And yeah, China has and continues to encroach on Tibetan and Northwest Muslim land.
        China also practices neocolonialism in Africa as we speak.
        Also, Chic Noir, look at Ireland with its population of Nigerians and other non-whites. Far from being a colonizing/slave holding power, Ireland itself was a COLONY.
        And yet you have non-whites living there.
        Immigrants go to wealthy countries and countries that put up with immigration. It has nothing to do with colonialism or slavery.

      2. There is debate in Japan on allowing more immigration because they are facing the same issues that affluent Western countries are. People not having enough babies, yet having generous social welfare systems that are going to start getting quite top-heavy soon. They’ll probably turn to Chinese and Phillipinos though before they turn to Latin America or Africa.

        1. Yeah, I even once read somewhere that Japan considered building some robots to perform labor, because they don’t want non-Japanese immigrants.
          I agree, in that I highly doubt they’ll be encouraging non-Asians to migrate there.
          Heck, you should look at how Koreans in Japan, many of whom are 3rd generation and beyond and are almost indistinguishable from the native Japanese from our perspective, get treated there.
          I don’t know. Something tells me we’ll be seeing more robots in Japan. I don’t exactly think that Japan wants “diversity,” economic necessity or no.

        2. The younger generation I suspect is more open to it. The world is becoming smaller. I think in the future, any country with economic opportunity will have all types of immigrants. It’s inevitable.

        1. Let’s see, Korea, for starters.
          They also colonized China for a few decades. And of course, one doesn’t have to mention the Pacific Empire that they created during WWII.
          The Japanese were indeed colonialists and imperialists.
          Unlike European and American imperialists, however, they arrived late to the game, and had to contend with powerful Western powers, which is how their empire collapsed.

  8. Ok. Let me try…
    I think we may be mixing up several things here. So let me pull them apart the best I can:
    Extremely loudness. Yep, no disagreement there. This is clearly a cultural difference compounded by the fact the we as Blacks tend to be naturally more emotional, get excited easily, and often lack discretion (the last being a purely learned or unlearned skill).
    Now being loud in itself is not necessarily good or bad (just go to any amusement park with a roller coaster and you’ll see what I mean). Discretion and being aware of your environment/surroundings is really the key here. I remember in college talking really loud in the library and this guy caught my attention with an evil stare. He was trying to study and he said “where are we?” in an extremely irritated voice. Although my gut reaction was to get defensive and say something like “You don’t know me. Who do you think you’re talking to?” I had to concede he was right and apologized. In fact, when I was leaving I apologized again. That was almost 15 years ago and I never forgot it. This is the discretion component that unfortunately is not reflexive for us and has not taken root in our re-booted, post slavery, Black culture yet. I even slip sometimes at the office and notice the startled look on the face of the White person I’m talking to, but when I see that look, I remind myself to keep it down. Some things are just a work in progress I guess. To be clear though, I have noticed one other loud culture at the office from time to time: Italians, but nobody gives them the startled look. Go figure…
    The excessive profanity and derogatory slurs along with extreme horse playing: This is just the uncultured (or ghetto) Blacks that unfortunately combined with the loudness get the most attention. This is just ghetto plain and simple. Not one of my Black friends is like this so I know that plenty of us are not. Although Whites may not exhibit this particular ghetto habit, I’m sure there are things that White ghetto people (or whatever you call them) do that you would also consider uncouth.
    I personally hate that ghetto scene described at the outset. It’s just too juvenile for me.
    To address the point on Blacks being criminals or stealing: If I see a Black person or a group of Black kids walking down the street, I immediate know what I’m dealing with. I can tell by the dress, grooming, swagger and the one who’s leading the pack what I’m in for. None of these cues for me are based on skill color but always behavior. I can understand though, that it can be hard to decipher for someone not Black and it’s hard to expect people to take a chance on the street like that. It’s just not worth it. As silly as it may seem, that’s why I don’t get too upset when cabs don’t stop for me sometimes. As frustrating as it may be, I try to put myself in that person’s shoes that may have kids or a mate depending on him or her to make it home. If that person can’t honestly tell the difference, part of me kind of understands. (I guess I’m too psychological for my own good.) I do think some people though just don’t try, have a lazy mind and cause others to suffer because of it. It’s even worse when that person is a police officer – not good. Trust me.
    As far as being a ‘noble’ people as a whole, that’s hardly the case for Blacks or anybody else. What I can say though is that for those of us who try, we really don’t get enough credit. It’s like every day is the first day in the office, which is fine when you are innocent until proven guilty but can wear thin if every day you start over guilty until proven innocent.

    1. I like your comment a lot. But I don’t know if it’s true that Black people are naturally more emotional or excitable than other groups.
      It’s possible, maybe, that many Blacks are not as disciplined as people in other groups, which could be a cultural issue.

      1. The discretion issue I believe is a learned skilled without a doubt.
        You could be right on the others too. Being emotional and excitable are tricky to classify. Either we are more emotional and excitable as a people or other cultures teach the need to keep said emotions under control. One of these has to be true I think.

      2. And I think having so many single parent homes is a factor in that.
        I have quite a few family members I’d consider “ghetto” but I was never raised around that environment so it never became part of who I am. I just didn’t learn those mannerisms. And I don’t come from a single parent background. My dad wouldn’t have let me get away with saying “nigga” or anything like that. He hated gangmembers and trouble-makes and took great lengths to keep me away from that sort of environment.

  9. You know, some of us grow up in “quiet homes.”
    My parents, quiet.
    Our home, quiet.
    Sometimes we’d go visit my cousins, “loud.”
    Very loud.
    Screaming, shouting, noise.
    Come home, quiet.
    Every home has its own character.
    And I realized at one point in my life that my parents raised me in an atypical manner. Most friends, family, grew up in Loud Houses.
    I grew up in a Quiet House.
    It affected much of my development which essentially separated me from many of my peers.
    I think that’s what you’re are circumventing here Robert.
    Childhood environmental acoustic levels. Babies learn to scream louder when they need to.

  10. Movie ruiners. Go to the theater sometime where there are lots of blacks in the theater, they are constantly talking to the screen, shouting, cheering. I don’t mind it so much but a lot of people probably get pissed about it.

  11. With regard to the loudness of voice, this has to do with biology, though perhaps not in the way you expect.
    Many studies have shown that dark-skinned people have more robust hearing than lighter-skinned people. Melanin may have a function in the inner ear. Black factory workers, for instance, do not suffer much loss of hearing when working in loud environments. Additionally, Whites have a greater reduction in hearing with age.
    The normal tone of voice for an African descended person can sound like shouting to the White ear, especially over a certain age, simply because they have different ranges of hearing.
    Anyway, here’s a video:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggWMWgRkK_4

    1. Wow, Robert getting linked to Amren!
      I thought they didn’t like you because they regarded you as a self-hating anti-racist and traitor.

      1. I thought they didn’t like you because they regarded you as a self-hating anti-racist and traitor.
        The commenters think that, but I know the publisher, Jared Taylor. He doesn’t feel that way about me. He thinks I’m like him and just need to come out of the closet. I don’t agree. Etc etc.

    2. What!? Wow, linked on Amren, damn. I don’t mind Amren. I read it most days. It’s horrible, but it’s also real. It’s the only place on the Net you can get some straight up race realism talk, mostly in the comments. In spite of all the garbage in the comments, there should be some good stuff.
      I like personal anecdotes best. A lot of commenters have experienced the downside of diversity or the reality of race in America is a very real way and they really tell it like is. Sort of like we do here. And a number of them are not much more racist than your average White American.
      I’m sick and tired of the US’ sanitized discussion of race.

      1. I’m sick and tired of the US’ sanitized discussion of race.
        Co-sign!
        Eric Holder wants us to have honest conversations about race? Well, we’re having them, right here, right now.
        And yeah, the personal anecdotes over at Amren are the best. I love how white individuals detail how they transformed from naive liberals to white nationalists/race realists.
        On a personal level, I can really relate to those anecdotes.

        1. Eric Holder wants us to have honest conversations about race? Well, we’re having them, right here, right now.
          Remember when AmRen’s February conference was shut down due to protests at the hotel?
          Someone suggested they should call the next one “The Eric Holder Conference for Honest Racial Dialogue.”

        2. Someone suggested they should call the next one “The Eric Holder Conference for Honest Racial Dialogue.”
          Lol! They should do that.
          By doing so, lefties face a conundrum. On the one hand, they claim that there aren’t enough honest conversations about race in this country, particularly among white people.
          And yet when an organization such as Amren organizes a conference where white people gather to honestly discuss race, they shut them down.
          This only demonstrates that lefties don’t want honest conversations about these issues.
          It’s their way or the highway.
          But yes, “The Eric Holder Conference For Honest Racial Dialogue” would be excellent!

      2. I find the part interesting about going there to read the personal anecdotes. Obviously there’s a heavy selection bias at work. You are only going to hear the worse experiences about race from people who would even visit and post on such a site in the first place. It’s unwise to form any world view off what you read on a site with an extreme ideological bent such as amren. Something has changed in the last few decades and it’s accelerating due to so many alternate forms of media, blogs, twitter and the democratization of information. It’s creating lots of echo-chambers where people don’t get a wide variety of opinions to critically process. They go specifically to places that hear any opinion that confirms whatever they already believe. I’m not saying you(BAG) or Robert are doing this personally, I know you guys read black blogs too. But a lot of people, and not only WNs but people of all sorts of opinions seek out information that only confirms what they already believe. The left does it to with Daily Kos and and a million other left wing blogs where you quickly get jumped on for having a dissenting opinion.
        Anyway my point is, looking for personal anecdotes on race relations on Amren is far from a healthy sampling of the public at large. There are a good many people friends of all races and even married to people of another race. Why not read their opinions. And once again, I’m not saying YOU personally as I know you do, since you like Thad on Agabond and he lives in Brazil and is married to a black woman.

        1. Thing is, I think the anecdotes are pretty much straight up right on correct in a lot of cases. If you go over there right now, they are commenting on this article with a lot of interesting anecdotes of their own. Mostly seem to be valid observations. Problem is you can’t hear stuff like that anywhere in the US media! It’s banned. All you hear is how wonderful everything is and how great all the ethnics are, except those evil racist meanies, you know.
          It’s lame. I want to hear the real deal, the low down and dirty.
          Often it’s sort of wrong, but I can kind of filter that out. Like they like to claim over there that all Black physicians are incompetent. I don’t believe that. Sorry.

        2. That’s an excellent comment, Tulio.
          I think that with the age of the internet, there’s an increasing false consensus effect among many people. Since they often preach to the choir and read blogs whose opinions match theirs, they lose their critical thinking abilities and become increasingly dogmatic.
          That’s why I read Abagond, counterpunch (occasionally), and other sites. I’ll read sites even if I strongly disagree with them just to get their perspective.
          That’s also the reason why Occidental Dissent is one of my favorite white nationalist blogs. Unlike other WN blogs, they actually challenge certain unhealthy WN behaviors and encourage WN’s to adopt different strategies and mindsets.
          I’m not saying YOU personally as I know you do, since you like Thad on Agabond and he lives in Brazil and is married to a black woman.
          That’s interesting. He lives in Brazil, he’s a white anti-racist, and he’s married to a black woman. One might think that I’d hate this guy, but I don’t, at all.
          The white anti-racists I despise tend to be the ones who unquestioningly kiss black ass and flagellate themselves.
          Thad hasn’t said ONE positive thing about white people, and yet I don’t mind him because he’s actually willing to call blacks out on their BS and challenge them.
          Once again, excellent comment, Tulio. I do think that confirmation bias plays a role. At least for me with regards to my perception of black people, this confirmation bias indeed plays a big role.
          I’ve known/know cool, friendly, non-grievance merchant black people, and yet it’s the bad experiences that stick out in my mind.
          I think this is a human flaw in general.

      3. Robert/BAG,
        I took a peak at that site and found it very different from this one.
        You said that “a number of them are not much more racist than your average White American”
        Let me ask, in your opinions, do White Americans think, feel and talk about Blacks more like that site or more like this one? I’m curious. What percentage (non-scientific of course) of Whites would you give to each group?

        1. It’s hard to say. Here in California, where White racism is taboo, when you get them behind closed doors and they think no one is listening, a majority of Whites will at lest like I do, and all the way to the more moderate and nicer voice on American Renaissance.
          Amren is full of some really nasty racist types, but if you read the comments, some of them are actually trying to be fair to Blacks.
          White people here are very cynical about Blacks.
          But around here, they usually don’t hate them. When you see Whites and Blacks interacting in public, I often look very closely to see signs of racism, and typically, I can’t see the slightest thing. But this is a very mixed town where all races pretty much hang out with each other.
          I know some Whites who will shut you down if you engage in racist talk against Blacks because they don’t hate Blacks, and they support the Black agenda. They are Leftwingers who vote Democrat. Some call themselves socialists or Communists. The same people use the word “nigger” and love to make racist jokes about Blacks. But they would probably vote for Jesse Jackson and they support you politically. Go figure.

        2. I agree, it’s hard to say. White people are not the monolith that the Abagonds seem to think they are. One thing I’ve noticed is that my working class relatives are much more likely to have friendships and relationships with black people than the more affluent ones. The same people that SWPL types might dismiss as rednecks are much more likely to actually hang out with black people.

      4. Robert, you were more right about the Amren comments than my prediction was. Mostly, they were pretty fair, real and unexaggerated descriptions of the posters’ experiences with diversity.
        It also drew the second-most comments of any article so far this month.

        1. BTW, I assume Robert’s familiar with this piece from the Amren archives, but the conservatives here who don’t get how liberalism might mesh with race realism, might find some thoughtful insights in it:
          http://www.amren.com/ar/2000/04/index.html
          Don’t Write Off the Liberals
          A real racial movement cannot be exclusively conservative.

  12. hahaha. Robert, I guess your not too happy about this? i know you dont like Amren. whats your opinion on this? whats your next step, appearing on Davidduke, or being a guest on Stormfront Radio?

    1. Not really, AJ. I know Taylor and I communicate from time to time. I give him my 2 cents on stuff, and he responds. He’s working on a book now. He sends his drafts around to friends, and they comment on them. I got a copy of draft for comment recently.
      I’m a bit surprised this ran, but Jared read the piece, and we had a nice little conversation about it.
      I don’t agree with Amren’s position (they’re much too hardcore), but they are useful in a race realist way. They fill a niche.
      Amren is ok. I wish they would moderate and go more mainstream, but I don’t think so.
      Jared thinks I’m too moderate, and I think he’s too radical. He’s also a real conservative and I’m a real Leftie, but we don’t talk politics much. Mostly just race.
      He speaks quite civilly about race too, more or less like I do. He’s not some fire-breathing, swearing, cursing racist spewing out hate speech. When he talks about Blacks and Hispanics, he sounds sort of like me.
      It’s mostly the commenters over there who hate my guts.

      1. Robert, AmRen calls itself a “conservative” site, but is Jared conservative on the panoply of political positions, like environmental protection, health care, and labor law?
        Or is he conservative only his core issues?

        1. He opposes the health care law. Never talks about environmentalism. I think he’s pro-corporate. He makes his living as a corporate consultant you know. I really don’t talk politics to the guy because it’s so alienating since I know he’s a conservative and I’m a liberal. I know he doesn’t like Communism and socialism one bit.

      2. Jared Taylor only seems to care about race. He almost never discusses anything else, be it abortion, gay marriage, the environment, etc.
        He doesn’t even talk about Jewish related issues, which is incredibly rare for a white nationalist.

        1. I think so. I know for a fact that he is interested in the Jewish Question all right, but I don’t have the faintest idea what his take is on it, and we never discuss it.
          He never talks about abortion, gay marriage, the environment or any of that. I don’t think he cares.
          He’s an interesting guy, a real intellectual, good sense of humor, speaks a few languages, Yale and Sorbonne grad.
          He’s a very coy and political person though, sort of speaks in code and is *very careful* about what he says and chooses every single word carefully. You will hardly ever get him to say something stupid even in a one to one. He acts like he’s under surveillance all the time, and all his words are being monitored, you know? Like a politician, doesn’t say careless or stupid stuff. He’s a pretty political type person. Crafty and smart that way, diplomatic, etc.

        2. I guess I shouldn’t have used the word “coy” to point out what Jared isn’t.
          What I meant is that unlike Tim Wise, Jared Taylor has no reason to hide his personal life story or fabricate it in any way.
          Jared is very diplomatic, and is one of the more smooth talking people you’ll see.

        3. BAG, have you ever heard the debate between Tim Wise and Jared Taylor? It’s on youtube.
          Oh yes, I’ve heard it.
          I think both of them made good and bad points.
          Taylor didn’t do his homework on certain statistics. He also didn’t do his homework on anthropology and racial science, which made him look clueless.
          Timmy, on the other hand, couldn’t come up with ONE benefit of racial diversity. All he could say was “well, that’s only because of inequality, and hopefully we can become a truly multicultural democracy in the future.”
          Wise didn’t make a very convincing argument in favor of racial diversity and egalitarianism.

        4. To me, I don’t see why even have to debate about diversity in America. It’s like debating about rain in Seattle. It’s already here and nothing is going to change it. At one time America was homogeneous. It was all Native Americans. Then whites came and brought black slaves and at that point it became a racially diverse nation. What’s there to argue of over? It’s always been a multiracial nation. The only thing worth discussion is how to make things work, because nobody is getting back on the boat and returning to their ancestral homeland. So debating over the value of diversity in America is pretty pointless to me.

        5. What’s there to argue of over? It’s always been a multiracial nation.
          Oh, agreed.
          But it was multiracial up to a CERTAIN POINT.
          Throughout this country’s history, white people comprised at least 80% of the population and around the Civil Rights movement, almost 90%.
          Granted, I know that there’s no way you’re going to repeal those immigration laws and make this country 90% white again.
          I just think that since diversity is already enough of a problem as it is, it’s foolish to continue to encourage MORE of it.
          Which is why all these immigration and multicultural advocates are silly. We need to do damage control right now, not add more fuel to the fire.
          By damage control, I mean less immigration and less trying to mix people together when they don’t want to be mixed.
          Kind of like what Brown v. Board ORIGINALLY meant. No segregation or discrimination, but at the same time, no forced integration or diversity either.

  13. and what is jared taylor’s opinion on your previous satement that you dont care if whites go extinct? im pretty surprised you too are friendly considering you literally dont care about white people. does he know you actually WANT white people to be a minority? im just baffled, is all. oh, and i dont mean to badger you or anything. i know you might be kinda mad at me, but im curious, is he wealthy? im assuming this is how he makes his living, does being a White Nationalist pay?

    1. Yeah he knows about all of those positions of mine. That’s why we argue quite a bit. 🙂 He thinks I really do care if Whites go extinct, but I just won’t admit it. 🙂 He knows that I think we will finally get socialism if Whites go to minority, but he thinks that’s ridiculous. He says we just have a way more screwed up country with no socialism whatsoever. No benefit for Lefties in seeing Whites decline.
      He says he’s not a WN anymore. He’s a corporate consultant on Japanese issues. Consults with corporate types on how to do business with the Japanese. He’s over in Japan a lot. Yeah, he’s bucks up all right, but I have no idea what he makes. Would not surprise me one bit if he makes say $300K/yr.

      1. At least Jared Taylor’s not race hustling or getting involved in racial issues for money…unlike a certain anti-racist individual…ahem.
        He can make plenty of money outside of race. And yeah, at the very minimum, he’s making $100K per year.

        1. Put another way, Taylor actually truly believes in what he’s saying and is not being coy in any way, unlike Timmy Wise.
          I also think that his Japanese experience influenced his racial views. He frequently cites Japan as a model for homogeneity and a lack of diversity.

  14. really? hes not a WN anymore? why not? you know, i think its ironic his ilk love to talk about the white birth rate but have no kids. david duke only has one, i think. I could be wrong, but i think both James Edwards and Jared Taylor are both childless.

    1. Yes, in his latest interview he said denied being a WN because he said he doesn’t know what that means. He said he’s a race realist. See, he’s moderating his line. Personally, I think that was one of the smartest moves he’s ever made. I’ve been trying to get him to moderate for a long time, but he’s pretty ideological.
      But if he moderates, he will get a ton more traffic and popularity, I’ll tell you that. The Left will keep on screaming racist at him, but he will seem so reasonable that most Whites will say, “Huh? Racist?”
      He still has real hardline positions like ending all immigration and getting rid of all civil rights and anti-discrimination laws. I think those are total loser positions, but you know, the guy is pretty ideological.
      He doesn’t want to moderate his views too much because he sees that as compromising on his core goal of saving the White race. I mean, it’s not good enough just to get rid of affirmative action, see? He’s really a true believer, I’ll give him that. He ain’t doing this for fun. He’s committed.

    2. no david duke has a few kids , 2-3 girls IIRC . from what I can recall, they were all blue eyed and blond.
      that’s what I’m talking about if you’re going to WP, do it the right way. NO brown hair and god forbid brown eyes to boot.

    3. You will notice this on stormfront too. All these whites complaining about going extinct, yet you’d think they’d all be having big families themselves but rarely do they. One of them said, “well the government discourages hard working white families from having kids, but pays niggers to have them on welfare.” That’s the best he could come up with. Pathetic. Well I’m a zero population guy. I’m glad whites aren’t growing since they are the most environmentally taxing race on the planet, my only thing is I wish all other races would do the same. I don’t want ANYONE having big families, yet alone a bunch of neonazis reproducing like crazy.

  15. Put another way, Taylor actually truly believes in what he’s saying and is not being coy in any way, unlike Timmy Wise.
    He watches his words very very carefully, but he doesn’t say a lot of crap.
    He’s an *ideologue* though. That’s why he won’t moderate his views too much and continues to take these radical, hardline stances that won’t go anywhere. He’s truly committed to saving the White race. He thinks we’re going extinct, and he wants there to be White people around in the future. He doesn’t think White culture is enough. He would not be happy if in the future, Whites were gone but NE Asians acted just like Whites. He wants there to be actual physical Whites around.
    I know he’s pretty disgusted and cynical though. He doesn’t think US Whites care enough about their race to save themselves, so they’re basically hopeless.

    1. I know he’s pretty disgusted and cynical though. He doesn’t think US Whites care enough about their race to save themselves, so they’re basically hopeless.
      The problem is the only whites who talk about preserving western culture tend to be such appalling assholes that no thinking white person would want to associate with.

      1. Yeah, I almost would not mind going in living in their sicko White state if they ever got one going. It would be boring, but at least I could leave the car unlocked.
        OTOH, my neighbors would be Kevin Alfred Strom, Tom Metzger, Alex Linder, Jamie Kelso, David Duke and Don Black. No way am I living in a place like that!
        On second thought, fuck it. I’ll stay here in the Diversity. So I get stuff stolen every now and then, big deal. I’d rather live with these illegals than with a bunch of racist sociopaths.

        1. Lol! Alex Linder!
          That guy’s a piece of work indeed. He’s one of the biggest potty mouths and extremists known to man.
          Even by white nationalist standards, he’s considered extreme.
          And what’s so funny about him is that he looks like a SWPL liberal! 🙂

  16. Jared is very diplomatic, and is one of the more smooth talking people you’ll see
    Oh Hell yeah. You have to act the same way when you talk to him too, or he will just shut you down and go away. Really smooth, slick guy. He cold be a politician.

  17. the thing i noticed about him on his appearance on the queen latifah is that hes very very square. seems like a boring guy to hang out with. hey robert is your site traffic picking up from his arrticle?he linked to you. oh and btw i just bought an eighth from some NAMS and nowim steond. see thats whats great about black people. in an all white society, where would our drug dealers be?

    1. Taylor doesn’t run the site. Some other guy runs it, chooses the articles, writes the blurbs, edits the comments, etc. Taylor is more involved in putting together the monthly magazine.

  18. well it doesnt matter anyway. NO, and I mean NO influential white people read Amren. jared taylor hasnt changed anything. all of his fans are “little people” nobody with any kind of power or even wealth.

    1. Yeah, I know, these guys have basically pigeonholed themselves into marginality. Plus so many of these types are loser, weird, marginal, maladjusted, abnormal type people. Taylor’s a normal person, but way too many WN’s are seriously fucked in the head. Most normal Whites want nothing to do with that movement, at least the ones I talk to.
      Taylor has to moderate to break out and get a bigger audience, but he doesn’t want to compromise on core positions because he’s a committed activist. So he’s painted himself into a corner. Plus every time Taylor moderates, his core WN nut crowd freaks out and calls him a sellout or worse. I think he ought to alienate his frankly White supremacist base and reach out to more normal type Whites, but that’s just me.
      I’m glad he dropped the White nationalist thing. That separate White state is *so* not going to happen. You mention it to most Whites, and usually they just start laughing. They think it’s comical.

      1. its a viscious cycle because its socially unexcaptable to be pro-white the movement gets dominated by nuts and hardcore racist and regular racially aware white people want nothing to do with that but I do believe over time a moderate mainstream movement will grow. Even the A3P party which does have ties to the radical elements has been more sucessful at appearing moderate and has gotten a positive response at many of the Tea Party’s. Also white guilt and pc are on its way doen and pro-white sentiment is increasing but theire really lacks a sane pro-white movement to appeal to that.

  19. BAG, have you ever heard the debate between Tim Wise and Jared Taylor? It’s on youtube.
    You know what’s weird? I don’t mind knowing Taylor. He’s a nice, polite, well-mannered guy. Ok, he’s a racist. Big deal.
    But Wise? Yeah, he’s an anti-racist. I’m an anti myself, so I’d be prouder to know someone like that. But Tim Wise seems like such an asshole, there’s no way I could be acquainted with him. He’d be calling me racist all the time, and after a bit, he would belligerently end the friendship calling me bigot or reactionary. I’ve known a bunch of Left Whites like him and they all cut me off the meanest way. And they told everyone they know to avoid me too. And they all did as they were told.
    Plus Wise doesn’t seem very healthy. He strikes me as real narcissistic and there is something kind of creepy and cold about him. Taylor’s just a regular, normal White businessman type guy. He’s psychologically completely normal best I can tell.
    So even though Taylor’s the racist (bad guy right?) and Wise is the anti (good guy right?), Taylor is the way more pleasant guy to know.
    A lot of these antis are as mean as the meanest racists they hate so much.

    1. yeah i don’t get offended that easily but i can stand hard core racist or pc anti-racist types not because of their views but becasuse they are angry bitter and unpleasant people.

    2. I get the feeling that Wise on a personal level would come off as overbearing and have a sanctimonious professor demeanor. I’m not sure I’d like him either if say, he was my boss and I knew nothing of his racial philosophy. But I can separate the personality from the ideas and still find something of value.

      1. Yeah, on a personal level, Taylor just seems much friendlier and more down to earth.
        Timmy, on the other hand, comes across as one of the most self-indulgent, self-righteous pricks known to man.
        He never wastes an opportunity to talk about himself and then project his own personal experiences onto all white people.
        He also gets really snarky if you ever disagree with him, and doesn’t hesitate to call people neo-nazis, assholes, etc.
        I think that Timmy had a very bad childhood, has numerous anger issues and lashes out at whites as a result.
        Of course, I’ve been vicious and angry in the past (mainly when it comes to blacks, and in the past leftist and Zionist Jews), but I NEVER made personal attacks on Tulio, Chic Noir, David, Angela, or any black and Jewish commenters.
        Even when I’m angry, I try to keep things civil with other commenters.
        Tim, on the other hand, has no problem with calling you an asshole, neo-nazi piece of shit if you piss him off.

    3. Plus Wise doesn’t seem very healthy. He strikes me as real narcissistic and there is something kind of creepy and cold about him.
      I can’t get past the dead eyes. They make Travis Bickle’s look warm and inviting.
      There’s something really off about him. I’m curious as to what is behind it.
      A lot of these antis are as mean as the meanest racists they hate so much.
      Yeah, I’ve been looking at sites like Lawrence Auster’s and Steve Sailer’s, and they often seem like flip sides of the same coin. A very simplistic analysis, a religious belief in the evil of certain groups, and a hostility to any data that doesn’t confirm what they think they already know.

      1. I don’t dig Auster or Sailer. Auster seems like kind of a nut, and he’s full of rage and hatred. Plus he’s a reactionary and a nutty fundamentalist Christian who hates evolution. He left Judaism but never shed the Zionist skin, so he’s like Avigdor Lieberman crossed with Jerry Falwell. Screw that. That’s starting to sound like a horror movie. Homie don’t play that.
        I used to like Sailer and for a long time I defended him from charges of racism. Finally, I could do it no more. Sailer is a racist racist racist racist racist. Plus he’s a racist. On top of that, I guess he’s working for the Republican Central Committee. And he’s trying to be the reincarnation of Milton Friedman’s ghost. He’s psychologically normal, but so what. It’s still another rightwing racist Frankenstein.
        He’s not such a “scientist” either. He’s got a real Republican National Committee agenda behind all of that lab coat “empiricism.”

        1. Interestingly enough, many white nationalists aren’t exactly fond of him either, mainly on account of his neocon/Zionist tendencies.
          They don’t exactly have kind words to say about him over at Alternative Right.

  20. @BAG- is altright supposed to be the intellectual stormfront or something? i know theyre kinda moderate and not WN though. @robert- what do you consider the difference between you and david duke, and steve sailer? you call them racist fucks, but honestly the things you say would be called racist by many people and the mainstream media as well. where is the racist line? where is it drawn and how, according to you, is it between you and them?

  21. The fact that Africans who refuse to even go to Africa or even visit Africa and would follow European race whites to the moon if they went according to Chris Rock, would allege as Thomas Powell that they became the way they are by being around southern whites is the most hilarious statement even made in world history. Hell they wouldnt even be in the western white world but still back in the jungles had it not been for southern whites who were duped into the mistake of uneeded African slavery that was the worst possible economic system even created. Hired help and sharecropping was the best system and clearly the slave brokers and tribal chiefs who sold them made off like bandits only. Europe was built and maintained for 1000s of yrs without a single African slave. Slavery was a farce in the west and needed like a hole in the head.
    Even Muhammed Ali after his fight in Zaire in the mid 70s said he would never go back to Africa even to visit.
    Maybe one day a time machine can be invented that will return 400 yrs to outlaw slavery and correct this catastrophic mistake if only for economics and to avoid the Lincoln Marxist war split that was caused by this slave error.

    1. “The fact that Africans who refuse to even go to Africa or even visit Africa and would follow European race whites to the moon…. ”
      Quite a few black people have visited Africa on a pilgrimage of sorts. Hell I even have a few white buddies that have visited Africa and had a good time. And quite a few blacks have no interest in living on moon colonies(Earth is a lot more scenic afterall), with or without whitey.
      “…Even Muhammed Ali after his fight in Zaire in the mid 70s said he would never go back to Africa even to visit.”
      That was one man’s opinion. I plan to visit Africa some day. I know black Americans that have visited Africa, I know whites that have as well as Asians. Check out this blog: http://teacherontwowheels.com/
      It’s about a guy who rode his bicycle across Africa from south to north(he also rode across South America). And wow, he actually lived to tell about it! And get this…he actually ENJOYED doing it! And guess what? He wasn’t skinned and eaten alive by naked headhunting voodoo witch doctors with bones in their noses. Yes, people travel for pleasure in Africa all the time believe it or not.

      1. I probably won’t be traveling through Africa anytime soon.
        Not because I’m afraid of getting eaten by witch doctors with bones in their noses or any nonsense like that.
        I just don’t think I’d bee too comfortable being the only white guy in a black continent. I’d feel vulnerable and try to keep a low profile so as not to piss the local blacks off.
        I’ll stick to non-African adventures for now.

        1. Lol. Well once again, Africa is a continent, not a country. You might be treated badly in one place, and like a king in another. Just like I’d have a different experience in Paris than I would in Moscow. I know a young white lady, mid 20s or so who has been to central Africa twice by herself, I think she was doing some kind of research or humanitarian work or something. She made it back alive and unharmed. Not that I’m trying to convince you on going, I’m just saying that whites(more Europeans I gather, less so Americans) go to Africa all the time and whites live in parts of Africa too. It’s not like the blacks there aren’t used to seeing whites. In some places whites are treated so good that it embarrasses Afrocentrists. I think that’s in W. Africa. Though you’d probably want to avoid Mugabe’s Zimbabwe. But even then, pretty much any country is safe if you do your homework and don’t do anything blatantly stupid. Prior to the World Cup all the WNs were saying how dumb an idea it was to hold it there because the blacks are all going to rape and rob the tourists. Turns out the worst thing that happened was those annoying vuvuzelas. All these dire predictions of violent blacks assaulting World Cup visitors never happened. Most travel warnings are way over-exaggerated.
          Btw, I’ve been in countries where there are absolutely no blacks, like Chile. It is a bit uncomfortable and you do get stared at if you’re in a homogenous country and people aren’t used to seeing your kind, but I wouldn’t let that stop me from going anywhere.

        2. Yes Tulio, I happen to know that Africa is a continent, not a country.
          I happen to know that there are West African countries such as Nigeria, Ghana, South African countries such as South Africa, Zimbabwe, Botswana, etc, etc.
          And just so you know, I have been to majority non-white countries (Peru, Costa Rica, and Mexico on several occasions).
          Though I realize that in those countries, being a foreigner is a bigger deal than being white, since there are white elites in Latin American countries.
          I don’t know, I just don’t feel comfortable around large groups of blacks. I’ve already explained my reasons. Deep down, I know that more likely than not, I’ll make it back okay and won’t have much to worry about.
          Psychologically, I’d just feel like a fish out of water in Africa.
          But anyway, what parts of Africa would you recommend for a white person such as myself? I’m leaning towards the ones where I might get treated as a king and such!

        3. Well, most westerners looking to take baby steps into Africa start with the more westernized African countries with modern infrastructure like S. Africa and Namibia.
          Also based on what others told me, Kenya is really cool. I know one lady who is planning on climbing mount Kilamanjaro soon with her boyfriend. One of my good friends went there a couple years ago with his girlfriend and he didn’t have any problems being white and said it was beautiful and they got to see lions and giraffes in the wild and all. He said he stayed in a Masai camp for a few days too and raved about it.
          A Vietnamese girl I used to work with went to Mali with her boyfriend and said it was and incredible experience and got to meet the Dogan people who are quite interesting. Mali is extremely poor even by African standards so you have to be really adventurous to go there. I’m not even sure I could handle that.
          Interesting the part about your fear of being around large amounts of black people…no matter what the culture/part of the world. It’s not an issue to many people, but some just aren’t able to get over racial hangups. All I can say is that being surrounded by a bunch of Masai or Dogan is a hell of a different experience than being surrounded by poor people in the Detroit projects.
          Hey thought you’d find this interesting:
          http://naughtynomad.wordpress.com
          This guy is a PUA that travels the world in an attempt to screw as many girls as possible. He’s about to head to W. Africa. You might find it interesting to follow along his adventure just for curiosity sake.

        4. Africa is dangerous!
          Bottom line.
          Some countries are worse than others. The big cities are horrible in many cases, tons of violent crime.
          Some countries are so bad they should be avoided altogether, like Nigeria. It’s especially dangerous to go there as a single woman, White or Black.
          My Black friend went there to set up factories as an investment and he had armed bodyguards with him at all times in the big cities. He especially hated Ghana. He said all the guys looked like they just got out of prison. He *hated* Africa. If you go there, go on safari or with a tour. East Africa might be ok. I have a friend who goes there. But once again, the cities are dangerous. Nairobi is extremely dangerous. My sister’s friend was there with the UN and they lived in a compound with barbed wire fences and armed guards and were forbidden to leave. Some countries are worse than others…
          Your average Black person on the street might actually be pretty friendly and happy, but there’s way too many criminals per capita to make things comfy.
          Cops are often on the take. If you go driving around, expect to get stopped in police roadblocks and shaken down, otherwise you go no further.
          Law enforcement is very lax. If you get ripped, not much will come of it. No one will be caught and your stuff will never get recovered.
          Islamic Black Africa should be quite safe. I would not imagine any problems there.

        5. Well I haven’t been there so I can’t give any personal testimonials, but you’ll hear all kinds of stories, some good, some bad. I find the best way to find out about a country is read some travel blogs of people traveling there or expats living there. Nigeria I definitely would not go to, well Lagos anyway, the capital Abuja is very safe. Nigeria is a big country and local reports are most important.
          As for African cities being dangerous, once again I have no personal experience but I know a good many people who have been there and had no issues. Things do tend to seem a lot scarier from a distance than why you are there. When I was in Rio de Janeiro I was freaking out upon arrival. It’s one of the most dangerous cities in the world and when I was taking the cab from the bus station I had pepper spray in my hand just imaging some favela thugs running up and busting the window trying to rob us. After a few days, I realized that while Rio is quite dangerous, as long as you have your wits about you and know learn the do’s and dont’s, it’s not all that. Bad. Within a day I was doing all the stuff I wasn’t supposed to do like taking the bus late at night and even walking the streets at night. A buddy of mine even walked on the beach at night with a girl he met(another no-no) and nothing happened.
          There’s two types of dangerous cities. Cities that are dangerous if you’re naive and don’t know the rules(most of Latin American cities fall in this category), and cities that you’d have to be crazy to go to like Kabul, Ciudad Juarez or anywhere in Somalia…basically places that are either lawless or where the cops are afraid of the criminals and crazies. These places are a no-go unless you have combat boots and an M-16. Most of Africa I’m sure falls in the former category with hotspots in the 2nd category. These places are easily avoided. I wouldn’t worry much about traveling within Africa as far as danger goes. I’ve just met too many people that have done it and had nothing happen.

        6. Yeah, I have racial hang-ups.
          Just for the record, I know that black Africans and West Indians are different from black Americans, that not all people with black skin are the same, that black Americans are not even monolithic, etc.
          There’s just something about being around large groups of blacks, regardless of nationality, that throws me off.

  22. To me, I don’t see why even have to debate about diversity in America. It’s like debating about rain in Seattle. It’s already here and nothing is going to change it. At one time America was homogeneous. It was all Native Americans. Then whites came and brought black slaves and at that point it became a racially diverse nation. What’s there to argue of over? It’s always been a multiracial nation. The only thing worth discussion is how to make things work, because nobody is getting back on the boat and returning to their ancestral homeland. So debating over the value of diversity in America is pretty pointless to me.
    This is actually my position. These people arguing for rolling back all the civil rights laws, going back to segregation, eliminating all immigration, repealing Brown v BOE, they’re all completely out of their minds. None of these things will ever happen, AFAICT. It’s ridiculous. They’re living in fantasyland.
    As a White advocate, my position is that the Diversity is here to stay, that we already have a multicultural society, and there is nothing to be done about it. In the future, it will only get more diverse and multicultural. It’s like trying to bail out the ocean. Hopeless. I want to make this multiculturalism more pleasant for Whites, and for any non-Whites who wish to join us on our journey.
    I also oppose the White advocates in their zero-sum game. 100% of them are about promoting non-White goals at the expense of non-Whites. Fuck that. I’m not going to benefit my people by slamming everyone else. If that’s your game, you can take it somewhere else. I’m for advancing some White goals, but at the same time in general making this a better country all around for anyone who wants to join us on these projects. IOW, these goals are not just to benefit Whites, but to benefit a lot of non-Whites too, should they wish to join us.

    1. Robert,
      I can appreciate what you are saying. One hiccup I have with it though is that some of the things that are being framed as “White goals” may in fact be some of the same goals for those of us who are not White. So why do they get to just be “White Goals” for the rest of us to join in on? For me some of these things are CBC goals. Why attach a color to it when there are members of all races that have (and not have) these goals?
      While the actual goals are important, labeling is also important too because someone can make the mistake of thinking that everything in one culture is the way to go, and the reality is that no one culture is superior in every other way to another (particularly since some things are just subject to preference like food and music).
      Do I believe that the White culture does some things better than other cultures – absolutely. But it is not perfect. There are some things in the White culture that are also not so great. Some of these things I think other cultures do a little better. Why not think about it in terms of taking the best from all cultures? That’s what will happen anyway. It’s happened before. Just look at music. As I stated before, many genres of music started in the Black culture (and as irony would have it, from the GBC to be exact) but was adopted and then rebranded to now be part of the “White Culture” or Pop culture. This is not right because it causes uninformed people to believe that we contribute nothing and hence not worth the price of admission. Blacks have contributed a lot to this society but have not received the proper credit in history because Black history is taught apart from American History when in reality they are one in the same.
      Just take for example Garrett Morgan. Most people don’t know who he is but he created the gas mask and the traffic light. I happened to think these are pretty cool contributions to society and should count toward “the price of admission” but it does not because most people don’t know about it. My guess is that the White World some extreme folks envision has traffic lights (just no Garrett Morgan).
      If we give credit where credit is due, maybe more people would see at least some value in other people’s culture and not just assume that everything good in the world came from their culture alone when in some cases it has just been a matter of rebranding.

      1. Well, the thing is, I keep getting pigeonholed into this White advocacy thing, but I really don’t want to be a part of that. Liberal race realism is supposed to be an anti-racist but pro-White movement that does for Whites what the NAACP and La Raza do for Blacks and Hispanics.
        But everything I’m proposing is good for the US. Problem is that Blacks and Hispanics don’t want to get rid of affirmative action. Blacks won’t want to throw all the troublemakers out of regular school. Hispanics won’t want a cut in legal immigration or IQ tests to immigrate. See?
        I’m not interested in making White culture the default culture of the US. It isn’t going to happen anyway. Blacks can have their culture, but I’d prefer that the pathological elements be reduced.
        But really, the goals ought to be embraced by any other Americans who want to come along for the ride.
        I do think that people should advocate for their groups though. You and tulio should advocate for your people first. That’s only normal and reasonable.

        1. I prefer to advocate for what’s best period. If it comes from others – so be it. If it comes from us – so be it.
          For example, I think the peace, quiet and safety that tend to exists in countless White neighborhoods are hard to argue against. The problem is that I think many Whites don’t seem to really understand completely why their communities really work while others fall apart. It’s always attributed to race or culture when almost always it’s really a combination of things. Just take wealth creation for example:
          Why is income taxed at a higher rate than capital gains?
          Why is interest on home mortgages deductable while rent is not?
          Why is tax paid by business owners at the end of the year (allowing money to be put to work all year long) while the working class pays it every pay check?
          Now who tends to own stock, own homes and own business (culturally speaking)? And who does not?
          See all these things contribute to wealth creation which is a big part of stability in any community yet the rules in many ways are slanted subtly toward the way one culture operates and then everyone is surprised when one culture does better than another. This of course is not the only problem affecting failing communities by a long shot but it is one of the overlooked things (and I can list tons of things like this).
          Then sometimes it’s a matter of certain things missing in a culture that has ripple effects across the culture. For example: Life Insurance. Blacks tend to not believe in it or don’t have it generally. It’s not really about cost really because 20 yr term can be rather cheap. The idea of insurances of all kind definitely seems to be a major component of the White Culture and a great component at that! It allows families to preserve and build wealth come what may. This is something that Blacks would do well to take more seriously.
          Affirmative Action: the feelings on affirmative action are not the same across the Black community. Many think it is using the wrong tool for the job but don’t want to give it up because the deck is so stacked against us to begin with so “every little bit helps”.
          I personally would prefer to focus on the underlying issues like failing public school, not being able to fire under-performing teachers and a lack of general standards in a culture. CBC is all about standards and a hunger to succeed. GBC – not so much.
          As far as throwing troublemakers out of school, I’m all for it. Children deserve a good learning environment – no exceptions. I would be careful about how someone is labeled a troublemaker though. Some kids are just crying out because of something else is going on (child abuse perhaps). That’s why you need real guidance counselors in schools again to get to the bottom of things, not glorified admins. But drugs, constant fighting, weapons, class disruption, theft? “Gotta go” as they say in the GBC! BTW, Did you see the movie “Lean on Me”? It should be like that, just not so militant. I’m curious to know what you think about that movie.
          Not sure about the whole IQ – immigration standard you mentioned. Never thought about it much. It does seem kind of backwards to let in low performers while at the same time kicking out those here on a Student Visa after graduating college. I’m not sure why this is seen as a Hispanic issue though.

  23. Hey thought you’d find this interesting:
    http://naughtynomad.wordpress.com
    This guy is a PUA that travels the world in an attempt to screw as many girls as possible. He’s about to head to W. Africa. You might find it interesting to follow along his adventure just for curiosity sake.

    This is why I absolutely hate the White Advocacy movement. They’re just the former White nationalists, who are the former White supremacists. They keep changing their name because most White people hate them.
    Most of these people hate everyone who’s not White. Some like Asians, especially NE Asians. But most of them just flat out hate all non-Whites period. And most of them even hate most Caucasians. They definitely hate all the native Caucasians outside of Europe, and in the US, ~80% of them hate everyone who is not a Northern European. So they even hate large numbers of Europeans.
    I’m like the guy who writes that blog. I don’t know if I like the guys of every country, but I sure like the women! I’m not down with White advocates because I love most all the women of most groups all over the world!
    White advocacy sucks. Can you imagine if the NAACP was a hate group that was all about encouraging or browbeating Blacks into hating everyone who wasn’t Black? How many Blacks would support it?
    Same with Hispanic groups. What if La Raza was browbeating or encouraging all Hispanics to hate everyone who’s not Hispanic (whatever that word means)? How many Latinos would support them.
    White advocacy is such crap.

    1. Robert, funny this came up here today. On another commenting blog where I use a different name, the typical race-blind pro-diveristy liberal hostess opined that the Chilean miner rescue shows what international cooperation can accomplish, so why can’t we pull together the best ideas to help the women of Haiti or the Congo?
      I wanted to — but didnt write– There are some ideas that might help them, an understanding of HBD, the worldwide IQ map, and differential testosterone levels.
      Is there anyone doing any kind of serious advocacy for the position that compassion requires us to understand the role of HBD in creating societies, and to impose on them a governmental system appropriate to them, for their own good?

      1. #1 Nobody knows to what extend IQ is playing a role in Haiti’s demise. We don’t know to what extent the impoverished conditions suppress IQ.
        #2 Even assuming that biology has much to do with Haiti’s impoverishment, that doesn’t mean that it couldn’t be MUCH better off. Many countries don’t live up to their genetic potential. For example, Chinese have IQs higher than whites, yet China is still a fairly poor country unless you live in one of the major cities. Southeast Asians have IQs comparable to whites, yet the region is 3rd world. I’m sure the same is true of Mongolia. Russia and E. Europe are white and poorer(often substantially so) to W. Europe. What explains the Arab IQ of 85? They are caucasians and the first people to start building cities and writing. It’s not always easy to explain why one country scores such and such a way on an IQ test. Some groups IQs have risen dramatically within decades. Malcolm Gladwell cited a study on Chinese immigrants during the 70s and they had IQs in the low 90s, yet they are now outscoring whites. And even when their IQs were in the low 90s, they were earning money like they had IQs significantly higher due to other factors like culturally ingrained work ethic.
        So looking at any nations poverty status doesn’t automatically mean the denizens are dumb. Especially when talking about nations that are screwed over by geo-politics and neo-imperialism. It could be that Haiti will never become a Germany no matter what, but it may be able to become at least a Mexico, perhaps still poor by Western standards, but not exactly 4th world and living off a dollar a day. After all there are plenty of other black Caribbean nations where people are floating on rafts trying to flee misery. At the very least, Haiti can at least be like the Bahamas or Barbados or even their neighbor the Dominican Republic if they could get things right.
        3# And what does differential testosterone levels have to do with anything here regarding human crisis in Haiti?

  24. Robert,
    I noticed you didn’t answer AJ’s question. AJ wrote:
    what do you consider the difference between you and david duke, and steve sailer? you call them racist fucks, but honestly the things you say would be called racist by many people and the mainstream media as well. where is the racist line?
    I would be very interested in hearing your answer. While Sailer has been critical of blacks and is inclined to believe that genes influence behavior, I haven’t detected racial malice in any of his commentary.
    You wrote:
    I’m not interested in making White culture the default culture of the US. It isn’t going to happen anyway. Blacks can have their culture, but I’d prefer that the pathological elements be reduced.
    White (Anglo-Saxon Protestant) culture historically has been the default culture of the US. It currently still is, but has lost significant ground to white ethnic, black, and to a lesser degree, Latin American cultures. Your preference for a more muted black culture is significantly less realistic than WNs pining for their own white state. Blacks like black culture, including the pathological bits. These pathologies will not be reduced if whites like you are loathe to assert WASP culture.
    Can you imagine if the NAACP was a hate group that was all about encouraging or browbeating Blacks into hating everyone who wasn’t Black? How many Blacks would support it?
    I don’t know about that. Many blacks are at least sympathetic to the NOI. It could be argued that the NAACP isn’t supported by more blacks because it doesn’t do enough to channel black racial resentment.

  25. Lookingforanswers wrote:
    I personally would prefer to focus on the underlying issues like failing public school, not being able to fire under-performing teachers and a lack of general standards in a culture. CBC is all about standards and a hunger to succeed. GBC – not so much.
    But looking for underlying issues invariably leads to other rather delicate issues, like racial differences in IQ. This is the problem. What you are essentially saying is that blacks need to become smarter. How, exactly are we supposed to do that? I hear you saying “We need better schools”, but you are overlooking the fact that good students make schools good. Sure, the teachers unions are horrible and massive immigration negatively impacts black kids, but these problems are not the cause of black underachievement.

    1. RR, are you actually black? Because you don’t sound like your typical black person when it comes to arguing about race.
      I guess this is your new blog ever since getting banned over at Abagond. Don’t worry, as long as you don’t make ad hominem attacks or snide remarks against Robert or Alpha Unit, you’ll do just fine.

        1. tulio,
          It is good to see a familiar name. Yeah, Abagond gave me the boot a few months ago. I would love to regale you with the details of my banning (it was sooooo unfair). Send me an email at the following address if you are interested:
          rrsacct@gmail.com

      1. Bay Area Guy,
        Yes, I am an American Negro (or Negro American, depending on the day). I’ve been made painfully aware of the fact that most American Negroes don’t share my worldview. Then again, neither do most whites.
        How did you hear about my banning? I’ve told everyone foolish enough to listen about me being kicked off of Abagond’s blog. That really pained me. I’m very sensitive. I try very hard not to make snide remarks about people, but sometimes stuff happens. We’ll see how long Robert puts up with me.

        1. Just out of curiosity, why do you refer to yourself as an “American negro” as opposed to “black American” or “African-American” or just simply “black”?
          Negro when used in the English language is quite antiquated. I mean if I met someone IRL and they referred to themselves as a Negro I’d probably look at them funny. Now if the person were an Afro-Latino that speaks Spanish, different story of course.

        2. tulio,
          I don’t routinely refer to myself as an American Negro. It all depends on how many people I think I can annoy by describing myself as a Negro. The word Negro drives American blacks crazy for some reason (but nigga is a-ok). My usage of the word will depend on the political inclinations of the target audience. The more Conservative the audience, the less likely I am to use the word. The more Liberal the audience, the more likely I am to use Negro. We have come full circle: from colored to Negro to black to Afro-American to African American to People of Color (a phrase I hate). What is the difference between colored people and People of Color? When I hear “People of Color”, I will definitely bring out Negro.

        3. I follow Abagond’s blog, so I found out about your banning at some point.
          I also know that Erzulieredeyes, The Great White Man, No Slappz, our friend African Black Militant, and others have been banned.
          Robert will put up with you, as long as you don’t get snarky with him or Alpha.
          He tolerates racists, anti-racists, white nationalists, black nationalists, Jews, anti-Semites, you name it.
          You won’t get banned on account of ideology.

        4. For me, I just find the term Negro a little outdated.
          At times, I use it to mock certain black leftists and Critical Race Theorists.
          For me, “black” is the most accurate and convenient term to use. “African American” is just way too long.
          And I’m with you with regards to “people of color.” Semantically, it’s not that different from “colored,” and I also recognize the term for what it is.
          (ie. when people like Ank Mie use it, what they’re basically saying is, “let’s all unite to take down white people.” Therefore, as a white person, I refuse to use that term)

        5. RR, I have to say, I’m not convinced you are black. Never was on Abagond’s site either. I’m not trying to start a flame war, that’s just my honest assessment. Also, I’m not sure why you are intentionally looking to offend people with choice of words. Perhaps that is what led up to your banning at Abagond.
          BAG, I usually say “non-whites” rather than “people of color.”

        6. BAG, I usually say “non-whites” rather than “people of color.”
          Oh yes, Tulio, I know that YOU don’t say “people of color.”
          However, many other black people (particularly Abagondistas) DO.

        7. Tulio, I agree with you on RR probably not being black.
          I do think that us not seeing RR as black has mostly to do with his ideology. Most blacks, as far as I can tell, do not refer to themselves as negroes, and don’t subscribe to Steve Sailer’s beliefs.
          I bet that if RR were reciting Derrick Bell and Kimberle Crenshaw, we would not question his blackness, even if he ended up being a white guy.

        8. Well there is a way for him to prove it. He can write “tulio and BAG, I am black” on a piece of paper, hold it up and take his own photo then upload the photo to imageshack. He can crop his face out but keep enough to see his skin color.
          I’m not asking him to do this, I’m sure he likely wouldn’t. But that would be one way of proving it.

        9. Well there is a way for him to prove it. He can write “tulio and BAG, I am black” on a piece of paper, hold it up and take his own photo then upload the photo to imageshack. He can crop his face out but keep enough to see his skin color.
          LOL! 🙂
          Hey RR, you game? 😉

        10. It’s possible to fake nearly anything. But being an expert-level Photoshop user myself, I can zoom down to the pixel level and tell pretty easily in most cases if something has been altered or doesn’t look right. Esp if it’s a fake by an amateur.

        11. Hmm, theoretical:
          what if RR is white, but has a black wife or boyfriend or just friend who will stage the picture for him?
          Where does that steer this little puzzle?
          Would his intimately close association with a black person earn him credibility?

    2. RR,
      We’re going to agree on very little. I can tell.
      You say “you are overlooking the fact that good students make schools good.”
      This is like saying good doctors make good medical schools or good lawyers make good Law schools. False, false, false. Good schools, (which include home training and home discipline in addition to public school) actually make good students. After all, a “student” is simply defined as a “learner” and one is usually “taught” ( at home and at school) how to learn and how to identify their own learning style.
      Now, is it possible that despite a few individual teachers best effort, a student will still not succeed? No question about it as Math, Reading and Science teachers can’t teach those subjects and be guidance counselors at the same time (which is why schools need strong, highly compensated guidance counselors) but I bet I can find many schools with high IQ students in their midst that fail because the standards and expectations of the school as a whole are very low. This when compounded with the reality that these kids often have no choice to go elsewhere because of zoning lead to a lack of readiness for entry level courses in college. Again, I’d rather focus on these issue than focus on perpetuating affirmative action. Keep in mind I am not talking about the bad apples. The proverbial saying that one bad apple spoils the bunch is true in many ways. True bad apples have to be sacrificed for the sake of the bunch.
      What I’ve found to be the number one predictor of success in children are high expectations followed closely by uniform standards. Yes, IQs matter but low IQs are just not why kids drop out of High School at the rate they do. It’s a lack of standards and expectations placed on them by their parents, schools and community at large.
      Believe me, I can go on and on and give a plethora of examples (see my other comments) but this time I won’t. I get the sneaky feeling that you’re not very interested and just looking to stir up a bees nest.
      BTW, I don’t believe you’re Black for one second either. Again, I can tell.
      Even the Whites on this board can tell so you’re really not good at masquerading.

  26. Hey gang! What’s the chatter all about?
    Black guys for the most part, make me feel kinda uneasy when i’m near a large group.
    Dunno, just feels apprehensive to me.
    RR, “abagond” is too busy obsessing over his hatred of whites, don’t worry, he’s got a guy with about a dozen different screennames to keep him company. LOL!
    Rob’s place here is better, more honesty and no BS. I get the impression from reading the content that this person tries to appear “fair and balanced” when it really shows the writings of a ticking time bomb.
    Ya know, like the quiet guy at work that never gets angry and always seems chipper, but really has rage and wants to do damage.

    1. River, you do realize that rehashed character is nonsense?
      So yeah, a few times such a person has gone off the deep end and done some crazy shit. But you can’t accuse all sullen pencil-pushers/bean counters of such potential. There are millions of us. And some of us release the fumes on our (my) stupid blogs.

  27. Just out of curiosity, RR, what led you to embracing the ideology you currently subscribe to?
    You’re right about having unusual views, both among blacks and even whites. I’m just wondering how you arrived at your set of beliefs.

    1. Tulio,
      It really doesn’t matter whether you think I’m black or not. As you astutely noted at Abagond’s blog, the substance of what I write is the thing. My race is incidental and I usually only mention it when directly relevant. I don’t think there is anything I can do to convince you that I am black (except meet you face to face, which I can do if you live in the NYC area. I suggested this to Abagond once. He bitched-up of course. Maybe that’s the ticket. I’ll just curse more. I’m sure that will convince people of my Negritude. Yeah motherfucker! I’ll smack the black off you if you say I’m not black again! Yo’ mama wasn’t saying that shit last night!:)
      Why do I go out of my way to annoy people? Because people annoy me. Actually, people really piss me off! I guess you can say I’m a misanthrope….a doom and gloomer…..a really cynical, jaded, pessimistic fuck….and I like it like that! On second thought, I really don’t like it like that. It isn’t any fun being called a self-hating boot-licking uncle Tom (if one is inclined to think I’m black) or a Nazi scumbag Steve Sailer groupie (if one is inclined to think I’m white). I want people to like me, but they never do 🙁
      Abagond banned me because he has a reflexive need to white-knight black women, even when they are very wrong. I can relate to that reflex because I used to do quite a bit of it myself, when I was younger and didn’t understand the nature of women. For that matter, I didn’t really understand men either. Basically, I didn’t understand the nature of humans. I’m much more clued in to that nature now.

    2. Maybe that’s the ticket. I’ll just curse more. I’m sure that will convince people of my Negritude. Yeah motherfucker! I’ll smack the black off you if you say I’m not black again! Yo’ mama wasn’t saying that shit last night!:)
      Lol! Yeah, that’s the ticket!
      Well, at the very least, you have a sense of humor, RR.

  28. Bay Area Guy,
    Yes, if I had been quoting Bell, West et al, no one would question my race. Being that most black people are of the same opinion when it comes to race, people would reasonably conclude I was black, as you pointed out. It is probably best that most blacks don’t think the way I do. I mean, what if we blacks decided “You know, the difference in the quality of life between blacks and whites has very little to do with racism and a lot to do with long standing differences between the races (both genetic and cultural).” Would this revelation really change anything? Would it really improve race relations? I have come to grips with the realities of race, yet even I am quite resentful over them. I have benefitted from this knowledge however. The acknowledgement of racial differences has provided a certain logical consistency to questions of inequality, which soothes my mind if not my soul.
    What brought me to this point? The short answer: Marriage and children. I was disabused of virtually every fanciful notion I had regarding the human condition through my marriage and the birth of my children. If you want a more detailed answer regarding the development of my race realist worldview, send me an email (rrsacct@gmail.com)

    1. I think that for the purpose of fairness and logic, whether or not you’re black should be irrelevant regarding the substance of your statements.
      Also, as both of us pointed out, if you parroted Critical Race Theorists like the Abagondistas, nobody would doubt that you were black.
      However, just a friendly piece of advice: If you want people to like you (your words, not mine), then you might want to adopt a new approach.
      It’s a vicious cycle, but it’s up to the aspiring popular person to break the cycle.

      1. BAG,
        I’m afraid I have to respectfully disagree with you. It’s not just about the substance of statements. Whether he’s Black or not is not relevant. Whether he is PRETENDING to be Black IS relevant as it speaks to sincerity, motivation and motivated reasoning regarding his positions and subsequent conclusions based on those positions.
        For example, if I speak to differences between the GBC and CBC, the fact that I have lived in both worlds should lend itself to my credibility on those issues to this audience. If I’m making it up, well that changes things doesn’t it? And if you explained to me what race relations were like in the Bay Area, I would take your perspective on that more seriously than someone not from the Bay area. That’s why disclosure matters when people are interviewed by journalist. People need to know which horse (if any) you have in the race.

      2. Bay Area Guy,
        I appreciate your advice, but how do I adopt a new approach and still have fun? I try to be as polite as my dour nature permits, but folks still hate me. Life is so cruel. Nobody understands me but my woman.

  29. lol never mind, i guess… i also think RR is not black. he doesnt have that SOUL POWA vibe. im actually also eager to hear from BAG about race relations in the bay area. I asked him before if hes a member of the most prominent and street-active white nationalist group there, but he never answered me.

  30. Lookingforanswers,
    I think you are being presumptuous. I think it is possible for us to agree. I think what you are really saying is that you are not prepared to agree, regardless of the strength of any argument I might present.
    You wrote:
    This is like saying good doctors make good medical schools or good lawyers make good Law schools. False, false, false. Good schools, (which include home training and home discipline in addition to public school) actually make good students.
    Good schools do not make students good. Going to Harvard is not going to make one a genius, but one is more likely to get into Harvard, and thus inflate Harvard’s image as a good school, if one is a genius. Nothing magical happens in school that suddenly causes one to become smarter. Perhaps we need to define “good school”. Currently, a high school is considered “good” if a high percentage of its graduating seniors do the following:
    1) Achieve high SAT scores.
    2) Achieve High AP test scores.
    3) Go on to matriculate at 4 year colleges.
    This definition of “good” school is probably flawed. I would like to see the definition changed to reflect how much a student learns at a given school, taking into account the IQ score of said student as a freshman.
    It doesn’t seem to me that people are taught to learn. Human beings begin learning the moment we are born (even before that). The ability to learn is innate to humans. We just learn at different rates.
    The article you referenced, while heart-warming, does not disprove my argument. The article does not mention increases in reading or math scores. And you are no doubt aware of the educational testing debacle recently reported in NYC. This story is not so inspiring:
    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/13/education/13harlem.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=harlem%20children's%20zone&st=cse
    You wrote:
    BTW, I don’t believe you’re Black for one second either. Again, I can tell.
    So, you have psychic powers? This is what disturbs me about black people. We are inclined to believe what makes us feel good. Whites do this too (that is how Obama was elected), but we do it to a much greater extent. Lets focus on the content of our arguments and leave our individual racial identifications out of the discussion. I could be black. I could be white. I could be of mixed race. Who cares? What difference does it make? While I appreciate the attention (I love threads that are all about me) I would prefer to stick to the topic at hand.
    Whether he’s Black or not is not relevant. Whether he is PRETENDING to be Black IS relevant as it speaks to sincerity
    This is circular reasoning at its worst. Ultimately, you are saying that my race is relevant. Supposedly, my level of sincerity is important, because it speaks to credibility. This is the Internet. For all I know, you might not be black (though I suspect you are a black woman). Or you could be Asian or whatever. It would be impossible for me to know for sure (unless you live in the NYC area, then we could meet and verify to each other our racial identities). The only credibility that matters here (or should matter, especially to blacks) is the force of one’s argument. What kills me is that blacks are forever complaining about being stereotyped by whites. We exclaim “Don’t pigeonhole blacks. Our opinions and achievements span the gamut. Don’t assume blacks think or act a certain way.” But here we are, debating the race of a supposedly black individual because he doesn’t think the way black people are supposed to think.

    1. I guess we will have to agree to disagree on the point of good schools vs good student.
      You may not know this but people can be (and often are) taught how to learn whether they realize it or not. People can be taught the value of repetition (as with multiplication tables), the need to learn visually if they are deemed a visual learner (in Math) or perhaps learning techniques (when reading) if they are dyslexic. They can be taught the value of learning by significance (in History), recognition (with Chemistry), reinforcement (seeing then doing), so on and so forth. In other words, people can be taught metacognition. It’s clear you are not an educator by profession so we can just move on.
      While the article I provided may not mention increased math and reading scores, that is actually the case with this school. Students often come in reading and writing two sometimes three grade levels lower than where they should be but by the time they graduate, they are caught up (yes, with all year schooling and six day school weeks but none the less). With the proper amount of effort, good techniques, standards, expectation, along with a positive learning environment, many kids in minority neighborhoods who are now failing can be successful and at minimum graduate from High School. This is what the Principal himself says about why his program is so successful. This story (and yes it is heartwarming) does show that perceived differences in racial intelligence are not the reasons why minorities in school are failing. If near 100% graduation and 4 year college can’t prove this, then what can?
      I am familiar with Geoffrey Canada’s work mentioned in the article you posted. That article doesn’t even remotely prove your point. It speaks more to cost and national viability of such a program vs the benefits. That is something totally different. Yes, the cost of replacing good parenting and immunizing children against social illnesses on a daily basis I suspect would be exorbitant. It would be far cheaper to re-infuse high expectations and high standards into the community (I have some ideas on how to do this). I think you would find that many other things would work itself out.
      Lastly I don’t think psychic powers are needed to know that you are not Black (or an educator by profession). This is because knowledgeable Blacks know the things you state in your world view about our community are just not true. Not because they’re smarter than you or anyone else that’s not Black. It is because they’ve actually lived the life of a Black person. So while Blacks may not agree on what causes our communities to fail, we all understand what does not cause our communities to fail. They know that differences in IQs are not the reason why minorities drop out at the rates they do. Your position, my friend, is what betrays you.

      1. LookingforAnswers,
        I have to disagree with you in your contention that people can be taught to learn. Certainly people can be taught differently (as with dyslexics) and people can be taught to maximize their intellectual focus and such. But people can not learn to learn. One can think about thinking, which is what metacognition is, but the process of learning, separate from what is being learned and the technique used to impart the information, does not change (barring brain trauma).
        Learning to learn implies an ability to change one’s level of intelligence by dint of will. It is believed that metacognition is positively correlated with intelligence, which sounds about right. People can get better at specific tasks. Techniques can be employed to improve performance. Bad students can improve their academic performance significantly. I am all for extending the school day and the school year, but the nettlesome problem of the racial IQ gap will remain. You wrote that perceived IQ differences are not the cause of blacks failing in school, but how do you really know? How do you know whether perceived IQ differences aren’t in fact real IQ differences and that the academic performance of the races aren’t reflective of intelligence differentials? Anyone is capable of learning and improving his performance, but the rate of learning is what is critical. If a child has an IQ of 85, should he really be expected to read at a 12th grade level by the time he is 17? The IQ gap, and consequent achievement gap exists at all SES levels (and even gets wider at the higher levels). Why is it that middle-class black students from two parent homes do about as well intellectually as poor white children?
        The underachievement of students in the Harlem Children’s Zone shows how hard it is to narrow the racial achievement gap. Mr. Canada has literally hundreds of millions of dollars at his disposal, yet his schools have not closed the racial achievement gap. Sure, we could blame the parents for the gap, but why are blacks perceived to be worse at parenting that whites?
        Reinfusing high expectations and high standards into black communities would be worthwhile, but how do we do that? You say you have some ideas. I would like to hear them. Haven’t we been trying for almost 50 years to improve the educational achievement of blacks? Perhaps you are a genius and will suggest something that has not yet been tried. I would love that. We do know of one mechanism that seemed to focus the mind of blacks: state sponsored segregation. Yeah, I know it was a bad time for us and we are really better off without it, but segregation nonetheless had much to commend it. I am not nostalgic for segregation, but there doesn’t seem to be any way for us to impose the level of discipline on ourselves necessary for group achievement.
        You wrote:
        This is because knowledgeable Blacks know the things you state in your world view about our community are just not true.
        Being that I haven’t fully disclosed to you my worldview, this is a dubious assertion. But, let’s assume I have a racist worldview. Are any of the following things untrue about American blacks:
        1) 70% illegitimacy rate.
        2) Outsized crime rate.
        3) Poor scholastic achievement.
        I mean, are these things just figments of the white racist imagination? Also implicit in your statement is the notion that unknowledgeble people cannot be black. Is it that incorrect blacks are by default, unknowledgable and thus not black? Of course, many blacks would object to your assumption. Some blacks, as you know, equate knowledge with whiteness. So, which is it?
        So while Blacks may not agree on what causes our communities to fail, we all understand what does not cause our communities to fail.
        This sounds like another dubious assertion. Do you really feel qualified to speak for the black American community? Are you sure ALL blacks understand what does NOT make our communities fail? There are some blacks who argue that fatherlessness has nothing to do with the failures of the black community, while others attribute almost all of our lack of advancement on fatherlessness. Still others will rule out promiscuity as impeding blacks while others feel the opposite. There are blacks who rule out the possibility that we may possess lower average levels of intelligence than whites, but then there are other blacks, like me and Roland Fryer (http://distributedrepublic.net/archives/2008/05/15/black-america-the-cycle-poverty-and-time-preference), who do not. The upshot is this: blacks in fact do run the gamut in terms of educational achievement and political opinion, but clear trends are discernible.

        1. “Why is it that middle-class black students from two parent homes do about as well intellectually as poor white children? ”
          I don’t have a finalized answer for that, but even just limiting our argument to biology here, I’d assume that poor whites probably have IQs in the 90-100 range. I’d assume that middle class blacks probably have IQs around 100. I don’t think biology explains anything here.

    1. Lol!
      Funny clip.
      Although I’d argue that the Cultural Marxists here are TROTSKYITES/the progeny of Trotskyites, not Stalinists.

      1. Thanks, BAG (it is hysterical, isn’t it).
        In all seriousness, though, when I was a ‘yout’, that video above was about the extent of Black ‘lower class’ behavior, at least among the working class.
        The working class White folks like myself who grew up around, or at least near many Black folk actually got along rather quite decently with them, and we always usually had a good laugh together with the words we sometimes made up to describe things (especially us Italians).
        There was rarely ever back then an air of tension or danger the way Roberto describes the situation in Cali today.
        As a matter of fact, I found many of them quite friendly and downright endearing — like I do with my Black friends today.
        *You are right, btw, about the Pee Cee twats being Trots rather than Stalinists.

      2. You’re welcome, Prole!
        I can get along well with certain blacks on an individual level. So long as we avoid race and so long as those blacks aren’t Derrick Bell clones, we’ll do just fine.
        On a group level, however, I am very distrusting and on guard when around blacks. There’s always an element of risk and tension involved when you’re dealing with blacks on a GROUP level.
        One on one, though, is fine.

  31. Auster used to be an Amren supporter but evidently he attended a gathering where Israel’s possible demise was cheered and, rather than
    accepting an anti-Zionist strain in Amren, chose to make it THE defining issue of a split, and has continued focussing on a defense of Israel and a Muslim-critical emphasis on his site ever since, as if it was pivotal to expression of “proper American White nationalism.”
    IOW he’s still more Jewish than American, than white nationalist, than (traditional) Christian.

  32. I live and work in an urban area with a large black population. What’s interesting to me is that the more I work with blacks, the more idiosyncrasies I see in them as a group. The same habits, personality ticks, mannerisms show up again and again. I can honestly say that I do not see this in any other racial/ethic group that I work with–and I work in a diverse environment.
    For example, I work in an environment/culture in which we communicate primarily by email. There are many reasons for this. One is that when requesting information, it is easier to have the request in a written form. We then can take the time that we need to gather everything necessary and respond in a comprehensive way instead of shuffling around with someone on the phone. Another is that it is so much more efficient to see all the things that we need to get done laid out in our email boxes so that we can check them off as we complete the requests/tasks. Another reason is that it provides a written record of the work that we perform, and there is a “CYA” (Cover Your Ass) aspect to getting things in writing. When you are truly doing your job, you naturally want proof of it. Also, it helps us keep track of things.
    Despite this being standard operating procedure for everyone else, NONE of the blacks I work with like to communicate via email. They’ll tell you straight out. They are very adamant about demanding to talk to you verbally in person or over the phone instead. This perplexed and annoyed me at first (as it does several other people), because they’ll barge in on you and demand your time when it’s convenient for THEM.
    I’ve come to learn that there a couple of main reasons for this behavior on the part of my black coworkers. The first is that if nothing is in writing, they can say whatever they want about why work isn’t getting done or why it may be getting done incorrectly. They don’t like having anything they say or do go “on the record”.
    Second, I believe that they really do have trouble with reading comprehension and retention. I’ve observed that they really do have a hard time with processing and remembering information that they read.
    I’ll still send them written messages. I’ve learned the hard way to get everything that goes down with them in writing, because they will burn you if you give them the chance. I don’t care if they don’t like it.
    And I see it with ALL of them. I know we’re not supposed to stereotype people, but it’s hard with blacks because they act so stereotypically and predictably.

    1. “Despite this being standard operating procedure for everyone else, NONE of the blacks I work with like to communicate via email. They’ll tell you straight out. They are very adamant about demanding to talk to you verbally in person or over the phone instead.”
      If this is true, it’s probably due to differences in internet usage between blacks and whites. There have always been “digital divide” issues and I wouldn’t be surprised if blacks, particularly those that aren’t young use email less for communication even in their personal lives. I don’t know what the average age of your black workers either.
      “I’ve come to learn that there a couple of main reasons for this behavior on the part of my black coworkers. The first is that if nothing is in writing, they can say whatever they want about why work isn’t getting done or why it may be getting done incorrectly. They don’t like having anything they say or do go “on the record”.”
      Well, now your just superimposing your own conjectures on their motivations. It may not have anything to do with fear of something going on the record. It could merely be as I implied above, a digital divide issue with blacks being less likely to use email for communication. You’d probably find the same thing with older white people who also may not be as likely to routinely use email.

      1. I work with older whites and Asians who have no problem with electronic messages. Also, my black coworkers range in age from their 20s to their 50s. I’ve noticed reading comprehension and poor writing problems in all of them, that’s probably one reason why they avoid written communication.
        And I know for a fact that they don’t like having anything they say or do go “on the record”. Also, they don’t like requests made of them to be in writing either. It has everything to do with poor work ethic and incompetence.
        Back when I would abide by their wishes and approach them verbally, nothing would get done. Then they’d say, “I didn’t know you needed that” or “You never said anything about that”.
        Yeah! So I’ve learned the hard way to get everything in writing when I deal with my black coworkers.

        1. I work in an industry where blacks and “my people” are underrepresented, but you point out the CYA factor in written communications. Everything is CYA in the modern business environment. Everything has to be in writing, and verbal instructions or responses are always suspect. There are some repeat offenders in my company who obviously avoid emailed responses because they don’t want to be tied down or connected with anything they said, and they are all white, but that is because there is nothing else there lol
          Beyond race, I think the modern work place teaches one value that you must embrace if you want to get ahead: cowardice.

        2. Definitely CYA is important, but it goes beyond that. If you are truly doing your job, you naturally want some documentation and to keep things organized. People who are legit and really trying to do their jobs approach things that way.
          Whereas with my black coworkers, I see them constantly go out of their way to not do anything and accept responsibility for nothing. Or on the rare occasions that they do actually take some initiative to freaking do something, their judgement and problem solving skills are so pathetic that they flub it up so badly that it then takes 2 more people to come in and fix the shit.
          I constantly see my black coworkers make their own jobs more difficult with poor organizational skills and lack of sound judgement. It’s said that the average black iq is about 85-87. My experience with them supports that number.
          Funny thing is that I used to believe in absolute racial equality. I would have been indignant if someone had told these things about blacks 10 years ago.

        3. I’m just curious. What is the nature of your work and what jobs are these blacks doing? What part of the country are you in? Don’t worry I’m not trying to trace you down, I’m curious about the demographics of where you are.
          Me personally, I’m black, age 35, I have worked alongside other blacks and had black supervisors. I have not noted anything like what you are saying. Not saying I haven’t run across slacker black people(as well as other races), but I nothing on the level you are describing. The supervisor at my previous job was white. He was so incompetent he was one of the reasons I resigned. I couldn’t stand working for such an idiot. The guy was smart intelligence wise, but a fucking moron in common sense and there was also a lot of cronyism. I’d walk into his office sometimes and see him on dating sites of Facebook. Yet the guy was making $150k a year. Made me sick.
          Of course in either of our cases, one person’s fairly limited life experience cannot be extrapolated into a generalization of 40+ million people.

  33. “cowardice.”
    LOL. My black neighbor tells me that these days in the office men can’t even look at a woman in a suspect way without real threat of loss of job by the usual female avenues of ostracism, loss of respect, atmosphere chill, freeze-out. All paths to guaranteed career destruction even loss of livelihood. There are still good jobs out there for men- physical work, computer work, entrepreneurs. But must be hell in the office. Wouldn’t know, never cared for that sh*t. I’ll put up with it as long as independent avenues for income generation remain.

  34. Why would your black neighbor be worried about the fall out from “looking at a woman in a suspect way”? Why is that a concern for him?People only worry about things like that when they have reason to. I bet he’s concerned about it because he’s a bullshitting jive talker that can’t just go to work and do his job. It’s common with lots of people (but again I see it most in blacks) to go to work and try to make it a fkng social hour instead of just focusing on their jobs. If he just did that I’d bet you he wouldn’t have any problem or concerns.

    1. “he’s a bullshitting jive talker”
      Maybe. That thought did occur to me. Maybe some people just weren’t meant to work together. He’s a claims adjuster, he apparently has issues with texting which his insurance company wants him to do because it fits the habits of young customers, and is a new way to market. We both agreed that texting stinks, I can’t stand it. Anyway black people suck at a lot of things that white people are good at, but when you think about it you have to ask why the fuck do white people want to do it in the first place. Like higher ups forcing old people to text-market to young people. That’s bullshit. I’m with black people on this. Sometimes they just know what NOT to do. And if they fuck up the system in some ways, I’m good with that.

      1. I must be tired tonight. Actually fuck the response above, you twat. Why the FUCK are you so fucking concerned whether blacks email or not you BITCH. It’s EMAIL. Just fucking EMAIL, you fucking slave. You fucking TWAT WHITE SLAVE. Accounting for all actions via email! That’s slavery you bitch!

        1. It’s a despicable environment. Fucking male office workers, even on up to the executive level, simper like little bitches because they are so afraid of losing their jobs and their houses and cars and Iphones. I can’t stand them at all. I’m such an outsider in my corporate environment because I’m in this just to stash away money. I don’t buy shit, I don’t own shit. If I lost my job tomorrow, it would suck, but I’d be OK. No mortgage or car payment to worry about. Men cannot be men and enslaved simultaneously. I work my ass off for my own benefit and secret amuse myself by the amazing levels of mediocrity which drive American industry.

        2. “amazing levels of mediocrity which drive American industry.”
          I don’t mind industry. It’s a good thing. I value it in people. What I can’t stand is the technological micromanagement that’s occuring. A field of little obstacles some visible, some hidden that people must continually run not to advance anymore, but simply to keep pace. Emails are like a weapon, so is texting. Texting is a great equalizer for women, they don’t have to confront the other in physical or voice form. The male voice is higher energy form and more physical than the female voice. With text they just sent blocks of letters out and can feel in control of the environment. And if the text is full of little vexing orders and schedules men must follow, but by their very nature tend to trip over, then so much the better for women. It’s the women and bottom men that win in the corporate environment now. It sucks.

        3. Well, not “American industry” in the disembodied idealization of the concept but in the manifestation and everyday workings of modern global capitalism.
          There is technology, and there is modern social technology, which is where all the money is. Technology now is structured around the feminine aim of constructing a social network/hive that is never interrupted and follows you around everywhere you go. Hell with that.
          I work with some women who spend a good portion of their day tapping away on their smartphones, and it’s not work-related. Their social life takes precedence over job responsibilities. It’s not good to work with such people if your own sense of conscientiousness is on a different plane. But technology now allows you to blend all the elements of your life into one blurry parade of incomprehensible shit,

        4. “I work with some women who spend a good portion of their day tapping away on their smartphones, and it’s not work-related. ”
          Most jobs aren’t really jobs. Lawyers after the first few years of work are pretty much done. Most of it is handed off to para-legals, research assistants, secretaries. I’m pretty sure professors in literature, philosophy, liberal arts, LOL, do NOTHING after they get tenure and the work they did to get tenure is nothing more than what white models do – strut down the runway. But with high IQ whitey in the humanities, they get to strut their alienation and KNOWING of white misdeeds. They are academic versions of Ken and Barbie standing up at the lecturn. School administration is a kabuki play, a show. Bus drivers seem to me to the most productive people in any high school and the most decent.

    2. This Athene guy is really starting to show his true colors. I’m more likely to hear white men complain about such things as feminism and women’s sensitivity in the workplace. It goes right alongside their grievances about affirmative action. You can find such views all over the “manosphere” typically headed by frustrated libertarian white males. Of course they’re never bullshitting “jive talkers”…they’re white.

      1. “Of course they’re never bullshitting “jive talkers”…they’re white.”
        White guys on the phone in any corporate setting “talk scared”. Because they are constantly monitored for mistakes, not only for facts, but also for tone. To be white in America is to be ridiculous.

  35. Blacks as a whole have problems with cognition, restraint, problem-solving, impulsiveness, and situational awareness. All of these things contribute to just about every pathological trend seen in black communities-from illegitimacy to crime.
    For example-blacks are 8 times as likely as whites to commit murder.
    Why is that? Who knows. There are lots of theories as to why they act like animals, ranging from social and economic to evolutionary and hormonal. I really don’t know or care what their problem is. All I know is that there is something intellectually wrong with the vast majority of blacks that I’ve known/worked with over the years.

    1. Blacks as a whole have problems with cognition, restraint, problem-solving, impulsiveness, and situational awareness. All of these things contribute to just about every pathological trend seen in black communities-from illegitimacy to crime.
      I would agree with the gist of this statement. There is something wrong with Black people’s brains on average, from the POV of Whites. It is the Black brain that is behind most of the pathologies that you see in Black communities, running the vast gamut as you suggest. Modifying this Black brain via culture is possible, but it’s very hard to do, and it’s not likely to be successful.
      Now from Black people’s POV, maybe there is nothing wrong with their brains at all. Maybe they like it just fine acting just the way that they do. Maybe all of the pathologies of Blacks are just a-ok with most Black people. Maybe they don’t even think of them as pathologies at all. Maybe they like to live in wild, chaotic type environments. Maybe they think that is fun or exciting. I don’t know.
      But from our POV, their brains are different on average, and this is ultimately behind what Whites call the pathologies of the Black community.

  36. This cultural trait cannot be traced back to slavery, Africa, or even back 50 years. This is a new phenomena that developed beginning in the later 1960’s and into the 1990’s. If you are black, ask your grand parents if this kind of behavior was normal or considered ok in their time. You know, in a time when racism was far more pernicious, institutionalized, and education far harder to come by. It wasn’t. It’s largely performance theater, and really just an example of what “people” do when they can get away with it. All social behavior is relational. The way we act with our friends is different than the way we act with our siblings when we go home for a holiday, and revert to being 13 again. There are many selves, and how we act is extremely influenced and changeable depending on who we’re with, where we’re at, the situation, and how comfortable we are. I’m an anthropologist that’s don’t fieldwork by myself in neighborhoods with open air drug markets, and I’m white, so I know a little bit about what I’m talking about.
    The world looks very different to me than it does to my wife, and he behave very differently to perception of risk and reward.
    A kid will act like a brat if no one calls them on their shit, and this will follow them in life. Every time someone witnesses this shit and they say nothing, because the folks are black, they are really adding to the problem. Ya’ll have to ask yourself if you would have told those two ladies yelling outside to quiet the hell up, if they were white. I have no problem telling people to shut the hell up if I think shit is extreme, and hyperbolic, and usually they do.
    When my new black neighbors moved in down stairs, and played hip-hop way too loud in the day, I let it go for a couple of days, because living in an apartment is hard sometimes, and I don’t want to keep myself from having the option of doing the same sometimes. My wife was trying to study and she was losing her mind, so I went down, knocked on the door and told the guy very politely that my wife was trying to study, and if he could keep the bass down. He was totally nice about it, and turned it down immediately. My best friend, who’s white, always plays music really loud when he gets to a new place just to see how loud he can get till someone complains. Then he knows. The thing I’ve noticed though, is that I’m usually the only person that does these kinds of things. To everyone else, I say it’s like being upset with a brat kid acting like a brat, and no one calling that kid on their shit. It’s not the kids fault, it’s the adults around them who are at fault. This is true of any group of people, so it’s as much our fault as anyone.
    People, not just Black people, will tend over time to behave in ways that they can get away with. Beautiful women and men tend to be able to be dicks and get away with it far more.
    A great corollary to this ghetto black behavior, which I don’t see much
    -and I’ve lived in a Black ghetto- is young, middle to upper class, White girl behavior in clubs. We all know what I’m talking about. Bitches that get drunk and obnoxious in clubs, who talk way too loud, who act like they own the place, are rude to others, feed off of drama, yell “that’s our song” way too loud, etc… We know this, we’ve seen this, and we hate this, so why do these girls continue to act like this? It’s because most of the people in the club are trying to f*ck them, and are willing to tolerate just about anything if they think it’ll give them a shot. I.e., they act like that because they can, and because they aren’t stigmatized for it in a way that threatens their self-image or anything they are interested in. Again, I’ll tell off one of these girls in a heart beat when they act like a brat with me, and they tend to start acting right. Funny thing is that most people don’t see that many of the social privileges different folks have are the ways they are allowed to be deviant in different ways. Young, attractive, white, well-to-do sorority girls can be deviant in clubs when they get drunk. Low-class, younger blacks get to be loud as shit. Rich, condescending white guys get to act like dicks who are owed something. Deaf people, people with mental handy caps, and people with mental illnesses tend to get away with also being really loud in public, or acting in ways you couldn’t. I get to tell people to shut the f*ck up, because I’m 6’1, 200 lbs, grew up white on the Texas border (a real minority), and am a veteran of war. I truly give people the respect they deserve and I demand they do the same, and I’m rarely disappointed. I have that vibe and I get away with it. I’ve seen other White guys get harassed in ways that I never am, because Black folks don’t make me feel or act differently. Hot women notice a lack of confidence, the same way that loud, low-class Blacks notice White fear, and the reaction to that is pretty much the same. I’ve seen Black friends actually get louder and more intimidating when they encounter a ‘typical white person’, just like I’ve seen white boys change the way they talk when they encounter a black stranger. It’s both hilarious and annoying to me, but it’s obvious.
    The chances are that those two women in the story knew that there were White folks around, and they unconsciously minimized the threat to their own self-esteem by engaging in threatening, theater. It kept anyone from saying anything, and therefore it was a successful strategy. If being a brat works for a kid they aren’t going to change thier behavior. If a guy can get laid even though he’s a douche, because he’s good looking, and athletic, then he doesn’t have a lot of incentive to treat women very well. So, why did and do they do it? Because they could and can. It’s the same reason we get to complain about 4 dollar a gallon gas when there are people who have to fight over a gallon of clean water.
    Why don’t you say anything, because in your replies you’ve copped to being a racist in saying, “There is something wrong with Black people’s brains on average, from the POV of Whites.” It’s because you believe this (which is biologically not true, even a little), that you signal in your behavior, speech, and other ways that you will tolerate this behavior from Black folks. It’s the pernicious racism of lower expectations. Again, this is historically a new phenomenon, and evolutionary processes can’t account for something that happened in the last 40 years. It’s a racism based on faulty induction, or the Ecological Fallacy, because this isn’t a Black person issue, it’s a low-class, Black American issue. You don’t see this among Black Mexicans, Black Nigerians, etc… Seriously, hang out with some Black immigrants from an African country, and you will see completely different behavior. In fact, chances are you’ll see people acting far more reserved and prideful than what you’d consider to be acting white.

      1. Understood, I’ll respect the terms on your blog. I was actually surprised to see you make that comment, since nothing in your original post, or in others came off to me as racist. To me that line is never crossed until someone adds a genetic component. I added that last part later after I saw that comment. Perhaps when you used the word “brain” you didn’t mean the actual biological structure of the brain, and meant mind. I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt, but as a species our brains are variable and plastic equally across the species.

        1. Well this blog promotes something called Liberal Race Realism. We are liberals to Leftists who believe in the reality of race. In part that means that there are differences in the races other than the obvious. But we don’t believe that stating that there are differences in the races other than the obvious is evidence of racism. We believe that racism means animus, which we don’t promote. You’re certainly welcome to stick around. As far as anti-Black racism, my co-blogger is an antiracist Black woman who keeps me on my toes as far as that stuff goes. 😉

          1. Liberal race realism… huh. I’ve never heard of that. Didn’t understand that before commenting, otherwise I would have said something else. The different but equal line of argument is really not tenable either as a strategy, or as a realistic examination of the data. I don’t want to misunderstand though. When you use the term “race” do you mean cultural, behavioral differences between groups? Like something I would call ethnicity, or do you mean a more literal interpretation like sub-speciation, like animal breeds? In that sense Neanderthals and Island Hobbits were that last actual sub-species of human around. That’s why fully modern humans are labeled as, Homo Sapiens Sapiens. Neanderthals are designated, Homo Sapiens Neanderthalensis.

  37. I should also say that if you spend time with a lot of older Black folks, you’ll hear many of the same complaints. When I ask them why these kids get away with it, it’s because the older folks are scared. It the same reason most people don’t I’m sure, regardless of how racist they are. The difference is the way people explain the behavior. The older Black folks I talk with tell me about how it’s a generational problem, whereas you and others have determined it to be a Black people problem. If you’ve noticed the rise of reality TV, you’ll find that obnoxious behavior has become an American problem. Unless of course, the cast of Jersey Shore is deficient due to being of the Italian Race. Perhaps, Southie Boston is the way it is, because the brains of Irish folks are just different than the regular white folks.

      1. What evidence do you have of that? Before you answer, you should know that this is something I’ve formally studied. I didn’t specialize in physical anthropology, but I studied it quite a bit. I’d also refer you to the AAA official statement on the subject.
        http://www.understandingrace.org/about/statement.html
        There are also a few dozen academic articles on the subject on the site. I would also say that while you don’t allow questioning into who is and isn’t racist, the term is defined very literally as the belief in an inherent, biological difference between populations of people that beyond one or two superficial, phenotypic differences. The belief that people can be grouped like dog breeds is by definition a racist belief. It’s also not supported by any evidence. I know that it’s a commonly held belief and it is by no means a belief held just by some white folks. I dated a Black girl that was a bit racist in this respect, and I told her the same thing. My wife is Japanese, and she’s a bit racist as well. I don’t condemn people for believing these things, because it takes years of study to really understand and I don’t think that people are terrible for just not knowing the science of the issue. Please don’t misconstrue my intent. It’s just that it’s too easy for folks on the far left, also people in my social network, dismiss legitimate things that folks like you bring up.

        1. Yeah but we reject that definition. We think there are differences between the races beyond the non-trivial, and we don’t think it’s racist to point that out. I’m no race denier, and I am very familiar with all of the race denial literature out there.

        2. black intelligence is all about adaptation. Thats the fact. thats how evolution goes. They adapted to an easy living life in africa with no physical labor. 400,000 yrs of living it easy means you don’t need to eviolve intelligence for anything else. I should no because I hang around with lacks who tell me the same thing.

    1. These same older Black Folks or Black immigrants are always loud and aggressive. You are just finding excuse to avoid look at reality my friend.

  38. Blacks are sub-human, PERIOD. We all know this. Even blacks know this. The only blacks showing some sort of civilized behavious are the ones with some White or Chinese genes in them. The general rule is, the uglier you are , the mosre uncivilized and unrefined you are. So YES, you can tell alot from the physical features of humans. Truth hurts. In the case of blacks, the truth hurts really, I mean REALLY BAD.

  39. Many blacks have a desire to offend everyone (not to mention white people). They are well aware that the behavior is anti social but are so mean and hateful that this has become a favorite pastime for many. They think they are punishing others and are too dumb to understand that the joke is really on them. This behavior has become the norm and it’s not just the low class. I’ve been around the upper class blacks (who children pants are hanging down and don’t comb their hair) and it’s there also. It’s kind of hard to tell the good from the bad by appearnce. They feel that people don’t like them anyway so I’m just going to prove you right and make you miserable because I’m miserable. It’s a real slave mentality full of deep rooted self hatred that has been going on for generations (spitting in white people food and drinks when forced to work in the kitchen) but now with laws in place it’s done openly. Brilliant plan on how to get ahead in life. I’m sooooo sick of them and I’m 25% black. I’m glad the 75% white blood in me has offset the abnormal desire to be ignorant, lack self control and have no morals or integrity.

    1. How do you separate obvious, rebellious behavior in one group from the same underlying behaviors/motives in other groups? When I was a kid I was a punk rock, skater boy. Most of my peers were pretty hardcore in the rebellious and nihilistic department. I grew up on the border so most of my peers came from a Mexican American background, but you see this kind of thing very common on the Coasts and Northern states, too.
      The underlying motivation of rebellion, etc… is pretty universal in our culture, and it seems somewhat myopic to call out certain groups more than others because they have different ways of doing what is essentially the same thing. Part of the problem here is that those middle-class, black kids also feel a great deal of pressure from society to be a certain way, to act a certain way, to speak a certain way, etc… They are just as confused and reacting to mixed signals as the white kid piercing their tongue, getting tatts, and telling adults to f&#k off. American society right now stigmatizes people that have no past trauma, have loving 2-parent homes, haven’t ever gotten into trouble, etc…
      If a white kid grows up around black kids and rebels the way they do, then they are stigmatized for acting black. The black kid in a middle-class, largely white environment will get stigmatized for acting white. It’s confusing to them, and it’s unfair. And, the root cause isn’t them, it’s peers and adults around them that expect them to act a certain way because their skin is one shade or another.
      That is, collective social racism that tells people they are different is what causes this. If people could just be allowed to express themselves in a way that feels comfortable to themselves without stigma, then we wouldn’t have stereotypes we felt pressure to conform to. You should totally reject behavior that you find offensive, but then you can say you are rejecting behavior that you find offensive; not rejecting an entire group of strangers or 25% of yourself.

  40. I started out in life truly believing that people are all the same regardless of color. Then I lived and worked around large numbers of blacks for several years. What I’m about to say is not “stereotyping”. It is observation. Spend enough time around blacks and notice recurring patterns of behavior, attitude, and approaches (or lack thereof) to problem solving. These are patterns that I have not seen in any other race/ethnicity. This is from the obvious glaring things that many people talk about like loudness, uncouthness, rudeness, lower intelligence to more quirky of the wall things like talking to themselves loudly in public.
    Oh, and then there’s the harassment. I’m a white woman and I can’t count the number of times I’ve been glared at, leered at, stared at, and even verbally accosted in a belligerent way by black men who seemed to think that I owed it to them to respond to their lame pick-up lines and flirtation. (And no I don’t call attention to myself. I dress conservatively). Yuck is all I can say about that. I’ve never been treated that way by any other race of male.
    I will never live or work around a large black population ever again.

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