Organized Violence Versus Unorganized Violence

There is a debate going on in the comments between me and a Black nationalist type over organized versus unorganized violence:

Africanblackmilitant:Yes of course, whites are NEVER violent and aggressive. After all, it was us black people who kidnapped, enslaved, beat, raped and terrorized whites for hundreds of years. It was us blacks who, stole land in the Americas and Australia from the native folks and nearly wiped them out in the process.
White folks weren’t the aggressors and participants of the two most violent wars in the history of mankind thanks to modern technologies. YES!!
It is us blacks who tried to wipe out an entire ethnic-religious group and murdered 6 million of them in concentration camps and another 5 million who we didn’t like for various reasons. We black folks invented guns, the nuclear bomb, the hydrogen bomb, fighter jets, and all sorts of other weapons of mass destruction. OH WAIT, I’m sorry, I have that backwards! Now who is more violent and destructive?
RL: Organized violence and disorganized violence. Two different things.
Africanblackmilitant: Robert
Oh right. I bomb your city which blows your family apart. But not to worry I’m sure you will feel happier when you bury your mom, dad or kids knowing that they died in an organized way.
Listen to yourself. Your trying claim that there is hierarchy in death, in killing someone.

Sure, Whites have committed high levels of Organized Violence in the past, and some of them continue to do so now. But Organized Violence does not necessarily affect me, nor does it affect most people in this country. And in many places, Whites are committing no Organized Violence.
Most groups fight wars from time to time you know. I doubt Whites are more warlike than Blacks. They just had better technology so they could kill more people more easily. If Blacks had the same tech, they would have done the same or worse.
Blacks commit high levels of both Organized and Unorganized Violence. There are many more wars in the past 20 years in Africa than in White nations. Compare Africa to Europe over the past 20 years. So many wars in Africa. So few in Europe.
Black Unorganized Violence is continuous, and no one escapes from it. It’s found in most places where there are large numbers of Blacks. It affects both them and other races.
Here in California there are White towns. There are also places where there are many Blacks. There is no Organized Violence in either place. US Whites are committing some overseas, but that does not affect me if I go live in some White town in California. In the White towns, there is little Unorganized Violence. It’s very peaceful. You often don’t even lock your car or house.
But if I go live in that Black town, I will have to deal with a lot of Unorganized Violence all the time. That’s going to have a real and direct effect on me, whereas White (and Black) Organized Violence in say Afghanistan has no affect on me.
A society with low levels of Unorganized Violence but spurts of Organized Violence can be dealt with. The Organized Violence only comes once in a while, and you may well survive it. In between, you will have decades of very peaceful calm in your communities with little to worry about from Unorganized Violence.
Organized Violence is compatible with civilization.
Unorganized Violence is not. It destroys the very fabric of civilized life.

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64 thoughts on “Organized Violence Versus Unorganized Violence”


  1. Originally Posted By Robert Lindsay
    Sure, Whites have committed high levels of Organized Violence in the past, and some of them continue to do so now. But Organized Violence does not necessarily effect me, nor does it effect most people in this country.
    —-
    Whether it affects you or not is irrelevant. All that matters is which has caused the most death and destruction. Whites have caused more death and destruction than blacks.
    If your scared of black people I’m not here to mollycoddle you, to ease your insecurities. Your scared of black people (especially black men), indeed you feel inferior. You would not walk up a 40 stone man and claim your faster than them. Nor would you walk up to 95 year woman and claim your stronger than her, when something is obvious you don’t say it. Indeed your ashamed to say it.
    You only insist your better or smarter than someone when your not sure about it, when you feel inferior to them, as you do with black people.

    1. If your scared of black people I’m not here to mollycoddle you, to ease your insecurities. Your scared of black people (especially black men), indeed you feel inferior. You would not walk up a 40 stone man and claim your faster than them. Nor would you walk up to 95 year woman and claim your stronger than her, when something is obvious you don’t say it. Indeed your ashamed to say it.
      You only insist your better or smarter than someone when your not sure about it, when you feel inferior to them, as you do with black people.

      Typical black nationalist BS. This whole “your disdain for blacks real stems from an inferiority complex” line of reasoning.
      Listen, shithead. Inferior races do not conquer superior races.
      What language are we speaking? Oh, that’s right, English, a EUROPEAN language.
      If you wonderful black geniuses with all of those natural resources in Africa were really so incredible, we would be conversing in an African language right now.
      Oh, but now, we’re not!
      And by the way, it’s “you’re,” not “your” genius. Some more of that negro intelligence on display.
      Why is that black trolls who seek to stand up for blacks and combat stereotypes always end up reinforcing them?
      More than any other group, blacks BY FAR have the worst spelling and grammar over the internet.

      1. I thought you were done talking to him.
        Yeah, you’re right.
        It can be so much fun though! 🙂
        But yeah, I’m no longer going to give him reinforcement.
        Time to play the extinction game and just ignore him.
        Farewell, militant African.

      2. *oh, but no, we’re not!*
        Okay, so I occasionally make a typo or spelling error, but nowhere near as egregious as many others.

      3. BAG truly has turned to the dark side.
        Yeah, militant darkies bring out the dark side in me.
        You see, I stopped reading the Abagondosphere in order to stop thinking about blacks and feelings angry/disparaging thoughts towards them.
        But this African militant had to start shit. To put it in your lingo, “don’t start nothin’, won’t be nothin’.”
        If blacks attack my race and start shit, the kiddie gloves are coming off, dark side or no dark side.

        1. I guess the solution is to completely avoid dealing with, conversing with, or even thinking about blacks.
          Blacks just rub me the wrong way and bring out the worst in me.

        2. Of course, I’m hardly a saint here, nor am I claiming to be wrongfully attacked.
          I could easily have diffused the situation or just ignored it.
          But still, somebody had to tell that loon off.

        3. My guess is that your sense of security in what you are is pretty weak if you can be thrown into a fit so easily. Why is a self-proclaimed white nationalist even debating an afrocentrist for anyway? Does Richard Dawkins feel the need to debate the Pope? To me you seem like a ship lost at sea looking for a current to carry you somewhere. I’m not even sure you believe what you claim to believe. I think you’ve got deep down unresolved issues and you’re trying to use racialism as a remedy. Ain’t gonna work bud. But to each his own. No skin off my nose.

        4. My guess is that your sense of security in what you are is pretty weak if you can be thrown into a fit so easily.
          I just don’t like bullshit, Tulio. And that afrocentrist was full of it.
          Okay, perhaps you’re right. I probably could have avoided that.
          Fair enough.
          To me you seem like a ship lost at sea looking for a current to carry you somewhere. I’m not even sure you believe what you claim to believe.
          Okay, since you seem to know so much about the inner workings of my psyche, then how exactly do I really think? What do you think my real views are?
          I think you’ve got deep down unresolved issues and you’re trying to use racialism as a remedy.
          Look, Tulio, we’ve all got personal unresolved issues. Whatever personal issues I have (believe me, I have them. I’m hardly perfect) doesn’t detract from my arguments.
          I could easily go into all of the personal issues of your hero Tim Wise, and then use his personal issues to invalidate his arguments. But I’m guessing you would regard that as intellectually dishonest.
          Does Richard Dawkins feel the need to debate the Pope?
          Hey, beats me, but I’m sure that evolutionists have debated creationists before. I think it’s important to debate those from the other side, if for no other reason than to refine your debating skills and hone your arguments.
          Ain’t gonna work bud.
          So, Tulio, what solution do you proscribe? what will “work?”
          (by the way, I’ve noticed that many middle aged random black males like to call me bud or buddy. I can name several instances. Of course, usually, these black guys want me to give them money, so they always put on the friendly, “hey buddy, how you doing?” act. Rule of thumb: If a random black person is ever overly friendly with a white person, chances are he’s trying to get money from you. No other good reason why a random black person is so friendly with a white person)
          But I don’t know, Tulio. You seem to know a good amount about the inner depths of my soul, so how do you propose I remedy my “insecure” life?

      4. Robert Lindsay
        I believe that all white people feel inferior to black people. We made the red, the brown and white. This is your father speaking here. Human being ? Break it down. HU-MAN. What is HUE ? Colour.
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hue
        The natural state of human being is to have colour. Even the sun does not like white people. We made you, taught you, civilised you. We gave the world all the sciences and now white people have the nerve to bite the hand that fed them.

        1. Yeah, you guys sure are closer to the natural state of things . . . Thanks for the article on hues.
          Who are you satirizing? Hue-Man. WTF? You added an E and forgot about the whole concept of root words.
          Yep, we sure are biting the hand that feeds us. Like when all those African cargo ships keep coming over to our countries with loads of rice to help keep us alive. How dare we bite at them! How dare we rape them and murder them!

        2. Negro – break it down. Knee-Grow… that must explain the baggy jeans. It’s the natural state of the glorious Black Afrikan Man to have big knees. It’s right there in the words – can’t you see????

        3. I believe that all white people feel inferior to black people.
          You believe wrong.
          I almost wish it were true. Truth is we don’t. We don’t even respect you as a race. I suspect many of us have to work to see you as our equals. I know I do. I typically don’t see a Black as my equal, often feel bad about this, and have to work hard to see them that way.
          The truth.
          We made the red, the brown and white.
          So? Before we were Black, we were frogs.
          We made you, taught you, civilised you.
          Not really so. In recent times, the White world has far outstripped Africa.
          We gave the world all the sciences
          No, this is not so at all.
          The natural state of human being is to have colour.
          Not relevant.
          Even the sun does not like white people.
          This really is racism, making fun of White’s skin and pathologizing it. It’s like Whites calling Blacks spooks, muds and shitskins.
          Who cares what color any given race is? We are all just the logical products of our environments.

    2. Nor would you walk up to 95 year woman and claim your stronger than her, when something is obvious you don’t say it. Indeed your ashamed to say it.
      This is actually a significant impediment to some important socio-political discussions. When a diversity advocate claims that African-Americans haven’t achieved as much as whites because of legacy barriers, or women don’t get as high because of glass ceilings, it would seem somehow unchivalrous to talk about IQ or behavioral differences, or about life-work balance and priority as alternative causes.
      So not wanting to appear belittling gets confused with not have a contrary argument.

    3. I feel inferior to Blacks? LOL, not really. Yeah they can do some stuff better, like dance and play music, sports and tell jokes on stage, but so what? That don’t count as inferior in my book. I promote positive White identity on this blog. That means White ethnocentrism.
      I am the Great White Man!
      Great! White! Man!
      I wake up every morning, look up at the ceiling, and think, “Thank GOD for making me White!” Oh yeah!
      You don’t know me at all, guy. I’m just like you, except I’m White.

  2. Organized Violence is compatible with civilization.
    Unorganized Violence is not. It destroys the very fabric of civilized life.

    Thank you, Robert!
    Organized violence has been with us since the dawn of civilization.
    (including in ancient Egypt, which I know our African friend claims as black. Hey negro, the Egyptians enslaved numerous people as well!)

    1. BayArea
      Oh right because this a death olympics..right ? You get a gold medal for killing someone in a *dis-organized* way ? But killing someone in an *organized* way is not as bad so that gets a silver medal.
      I’m not even going to bother getting into the twisted minds minds of white people.

  3. Blacks commit high levels of both Organized and Unorganized Violence. There are many more wars in the past 20 years in Africa than in White nations. Compare Africa to Europe over the past 20 years. So many wars in Africa. So few in Europe.
    Yes but who organises and finances these various groups since colonization and the international connections in Europe and the US?
    Do you think any Black African leader or individual has the intelligence to launder millions of dollars without western intelligence agencies discovering the banking institutions and accounts?
    Who owns De Beers mining in South Africa the same family that financed Cecil Rhodes?
    A lot of Saudi Wahabbi money and promotion is coming into regions of Africa like Somalia and Ethiopia.

  4. The last major genocide was in Rwanda. It was very well organised. Most of the killings were carried out using machetes and guns. Imagine if the Hutus had heavy weaponry.

      1. This is exactly why the argument from incredulity advanced by holocaust deniers is so bogus. Nazis had top flight technology. Hutus had machetes, scythes, and the occasional antiquated firearm. Yet the Hutus still managed to kill hundreds of thousands of people in a matter of days and weeks.

  5. This post helped clarify this for me too. I’d been thinking about all the war killings done by Europeans over the last centuries, but it was always of a different nature. Even disputes between men were organized—they would have a formal duel to settle things, a duel with strict rules.
    But I’ve also heard that Africans before colonialism had wars which were mostly ritualistic and involved very little killing, much like in old European battles.

    1. I don’t think so. They were massacring each other all the time.
      I read a recent post on the various uncontacted or partly contacted tribes, mostly in the Amazon. Over and over it said that they were locked in permanent battle with some other tribe. It also repeatedly said that this or that tribe had recently been massacred or had massacred some of their enemies. One gets the impression looking at that stuff that low level genocide is the norm for tribal man.

      1. Keep in mind that a “nation” is just a collection of previously warring tribes who have been subsumed into one unit (usually by one tribe subduing the others through violent means).
        The Han Chinese might be a pretty cohesive unit now, but that’s only because someone conquered the whole region and killed anyone who resisted, a few thousand years ago.
        There’s little difference between tribes and nations – they both bond together through their conflict with outsiders – its just a matter of scale.

        1. @ Erranter:
          no argument from me there, but we are talking about conflict, rather than cultural creation, no?
          My point is that conflict with other “tribes” has been a constant in human history. The tribes of Arabia are the perfect example; they used to make war on each other; then Mohammad unified them and they made war on other people instead. England was also an essentially tribal land until various invaders turned it into a single identity.

      2. Robert Lindsay
        So says a white man, the most dangerous race of people to ever walk the earth, responsible for two world wars which nearly destroyed humanity. The Soviet Union alone murdered over 70 million between 1917 and the early 1950s (Ooops but that was organized), not forgetting the 20 plus million Hitlers blood letting was responsible for (Ooops but that was organized).If you want to learn about rape on a mass scale, learn about what the white germans did in namibia at the turn of the 20th century (Ooops but that was organized)
        Seems like you already know every single imperfection in the black race. The media, comedians, Hollywood, and the general public, do their bit to ensure no stone is unturned, when it comes to black people. However I have noticed an effort from certain whites to sanatize your own history. Whites never talk about how in the 20th century tens of millions died of starvation in europe, mostly because of a deliberate effort from others, but you often talk of the hundreds of thousands who have died in african famines or Rwanda.
        The wars which caused tens of millions of lives in the 20th century, are presented just as a historical fact little mention is made of the fact these tens of millions of lives were taken mainly by white men at arms. But a lot of time of your is spent talking about wars in africa, which have seen a fraction as many lives lost.
        We hear a lot about poverty in the black community, but most white americans are extremely reluctant to mention the fact 90% of them (possibly most on myspace) are the blood line of thousands of years of european peasantry. You will talk endlessly of the advancement of europe of the ancient greeks, and how european technology far surpasses that of other races.
        But you were never a part of any of it. The europeans who were advanced, who were elite, who had money, who had wealth are still by and large in europe! The British royal family still reside in Britain, as do thousands of Lords, Ladys, and aristocrats. But millions of peasants from Britain and beyond are now living in America. Its a sanatised history, which I guess is necessary, for white to continue the white illusion of a racial superiority when deep down it’s the racial inferiority.

  6. Organized Violence is compatible with civilization?
    I think I know what you mean by this, but Organized Violence is usually destructive of civilization. It has a way of removing that civilized veneer from those who engage in it and from those affected by it.

  7. How come you haven’t posted anything about the organised coup in Ecuador by most likely the CIA like they did in Venezuala against Chavez in 2002?

  8. And just so you know, let’s stop taking Africanblackmilitant seriously.
    I’ve read his comments over at Abagond, and he’s a complete joke.
    He buys into this whole “melanin theory.” He’s not even worth our time.

      1. Eurasian Sensation
        I laughed like a black hyena when I was on Abagond. Remember if your in a fight with someone then I think it’s crazy and stupid to let the person who your fighting with, dictate to you….how you should fight. I talk to white people how they need to be talked to.
        So run along. Go an talk to some black person who will give you your ego massage, make you feel you so liberal. The only difference between a white liberal and a white racist is : The white liberal will shoot you 10 ten times, the white racist will shoot you a 100 times, but whether you get shot 10 or a 100 times your still gonna end up just as dead.

        1. Ok, here we go. All Whites are racist. You’ve also implied previously that we are all evil and we pretty much deserve whatever we get at the hands of Blacks. So really you are the mirror image of the White nationalist racist Whites then, correct? Racism is either right or its wrong. It’s not right when Blacks do it, and wrong when Whites do it.

  9. “civilization”.
    http://monkeysmashesheaven.wordpress.com/
    http://monkeysmashesheaven.wordpress.com/2010/09/29/raimd-army-%e2%80%9ckill-team%e2%80%9d-targeted-civilians-in-afghanistan-business-as-usual-for-imperialists/
    Recently it was revealed that a secret Amerikan “kill team” murdered Afghan civilians at random, and collected cut-off body parts as trophies, of “finger bones, leg bones, and a tooth taken from the corpses”. Twelve Amerikkkan soldiers are being court martialed, under trial in military court, and 5 of them are charged with murder. The others are charged in aiding a cover-up. There are 76 crimes total pinned on the twelve, including the murder of 3 Afghan civilians, and the beating of a soldier accused of blowing the whistle on their crimes. Whatever the results of the trial these atrocities are nothing new in Amerikan history, and will likely not generate any action on the part of the Amerikan people.
    [snip]
    The humanity of the troops reflects the humanity of Amerikans as a whole. Amerikans barely blink an eye when the troops they support commit murder, rape, and torture. In fact, a sizable fraction of Amerika cheers on these atrocities.

    1. Monkey Smashes Heaven! Fuck yeah!
      Twelve Amerikkkan soldiers
      *snort*
      More civilization:
      http://www.alternet.org/world/142171/there_are_more_slaves_today_than_at_any_time_in_human_history
      I stumbled upon a fellow in a quarry in Northern India who’d been enslaved his entire life. He had assumed that slavery at birth. His grandfather had taken a debt of 62 cents, and three generations and three slave masters later, the principal had not been paid off one bit. The family was illiterate and innumerate. This fellow, who I call Gonoo — he asked me to protect his identity — was still forced to work, held through fraud under threat of violence for no pay beyond subsistence.
      Since he was a child, he and his family and his children, along with the rest of the enslaved villagers, took huge rocks out of the earth. They pummeled those rocks into gravel for the subgrade of India’s infrastructure, which is the gleaming pride of the Indian elites.
      They further pulverized that gravel into silica sand for glass. There’s only one way that you turn a profit off handmade sand, and that’s through slavery.

    2. This is bad behaviour BUT they were punished. People thought this was bad behaviour. You even insert it into your post almost as an aside.
      However, it is not an aside as it is the vital fact that shows when things do go dreadfully wrong the rule of Law is ready to remind the criminals that they must abide by a set of laws that will not tolerate such behaviour.
      Civilised behaviour does not assume thing always go right. It assumes that things Will go wrong and has the foresight to deal with these probabilities with the full force of the Law.
      To say the humanity of the troops reflects the humanity of Americans as a whole is an unwarranted assumption. So it reflects the humanity of an American catholic nun who spends her life praying and singing the celestial harmonies? Would she cheer on the troops? Of course not. She is more likely to be appalled by such behaviour as would most people with a healthy conscience.
      The leap made from one set of circumstances that punished the perpetrators to the damning of all America as human beings with similar mentality is simply a jump too far.

  10. The fall in white disorganized violence is a pretty recent sociological phenomenon. It has more to do with the expansion of the middle class + firearm control than anything inherent in whiteness itself. During the guilded era, white tenements in NYC were extremely violent. There was a lot of violence amongst the Scotts-Irish in the south. And we all know about the violence in the wild west.
    I was watching a TV show called Fight Quest that was talking about the French kickboxing style called Savate that originated in Marseilles. While it may not be a place you’d like to vacation, it used to be notoriously violent, so much so that it became home to its own fighting style in which rules were later added and it became a sport. Scotland is still pretty violent. It’s the stabbing capital of Europe. There’s a lot of hooligan type violence in Russia and E. Europe. Many places in West Europe we now consider safe tourist destinations weren’t always so even a hundred years ago. Socialism combined with gun control I think has a lot to do with it.

  11. More seriously, here’s a link to a book Dennis Mangan recommended in his blog. _War Before Civilization_ by anthropologist Lawrence Keely shows the horrible death rates involved in tribal warfare. Keely has estimated if twentieth century states fought at the same rate there would have been 2 _Billion_ wartime deaths in that period. When outsiders have observed closely matched tribal armies the fights have been more ritualistic than western shock warfare, but isolated inviduals or small groups are routinely ambushed and killed.

  12. AfricanBlackMilitant wrote:
    “White folks weren’t the aggressors and participants of the two most violent wars in the history of mankind thanks to modern technologies. YES!!”
    Oddly enough the nonwhite nation that was an aggressive participant in one of these wars has worked its way up to the same economic level as the western nations.

  13. Erranter
    The EARTH – The WHOLE 196,940,000 square miles of earth, of which 57,255,000 square miles is land and 139,685,000 square miles is water, weighing 6 sextillion tons, travelling at a of speed 10371/3 miles per hour – All of it, every last bit of it, belongs black people. God never gave the white race any earth.

    1. Thanks for clarifying the EARTH for me.
      “God” gave the black man everything and the black man took (hunt/gather/slash/burn) until there was nothing left to take. The white man got nothing. He had to invent, create, control nature “God” if he wanted anything. And so he did create.
      And now the black man is going to get all that too.
      Emily Dickinson is coming to mind right now. “The Brain is just the Weight of God,” i.e. that which conceived God, the invention thereof. Your concept of God differs greatly from the common African one(s). It’s likely a European/Semitic invention. Think about that.

    2. Sheesh.
      The whole Earth belongs to Blacks? Where do you get off man?
      I mean, maybe Africa does.
      The White, yellow and red races have owned most of the rest of the planet for many thousands of years now.

      1. When Mr. Asiatic-Black-Man-Is-God isn’t plagiarizing Tim Wise, he’s plagiarizing Frances Cress Welsing:
        http://abagond.wordpress.com/2010/09/13/how-to-talk-to-white-people-about-racism/#comment-65071
        The color of white people is the result of leprosy and genetic inferiority, and that the ancestors of white people are the sexual partners of dogs and jackals. It took 600 years to breed them, part man and part beast. Hence is it any wonder that whites lack true emotions in their creation ? Is it any wonder that white people are never peaceful ? Whites were only created to fight other invading races, to protect the God race of the black man.
        And this, uh, chestnut:
        White men give there women chocolate with nuts on Mothers day, so they can feel sexual equal to the black man. You notice the way so many white males are homos ? It’s because through anal intercourse, the sick self-debasing white male may fantasize that he can produce a product of color, albeit that the product of color is S**T. Do not take what I say lightly, this is the truth.
        That is right out of Welsing’s lunatic ravings in The Isis Papers. She has an approach to history and etymology that is improvisatory to say the least. She’s definitely a fringe conspiracy theorist, but I don’t know how influential she is.
        It’s one thing to use sources as part of your argument. But this guy only repeats some undigested garbage that is posted all over the web, like a dittohead. You are seriously letting the side down, dude.

        1. “…white people are the sexual partners of dogs and jackals…”
          Does this mean White furries are not immoral?

  14. Look African militant, there’s no need to debate someone who plagiarizes buffoons such as Tim Wise and Frances Cress Welsing.
    You’re a joke, a bad joke. Even the black radicals over at Abagond don’t take you seriously.
    Run along now, intellectually deformed child.

      1. No one really bothers to talk to him over there. He shows up, rants some garbage, and most people sort of pretend he’s not there in the hope that he’ll go away quietly if ignored.
        I think Thad even had the theory that ABM is a white troll trying to make black people look bad – like a stereotype of the whacko black extremist.

        1. Eurasian Sensation
          I force you to choose a side. There is no compromise with me. There is no space in my mind for good white folk. Black peoples hatred of white is valid since we have not pre-judged them. It’s not like one clan of people demonizing another clan and teaching their children to fear and hate another distant far-off group without ever meeting them.
          Everyone grows up around white people and we get plenty of opportunity to get to know them. If whites really weren’t so bad, then blacks hatred of whites, even if unjust, would be rare. It’s that simple. There is an epidemic of hatred towards white people and especially the west (Bin Laden) and invalidating our experiences just isn’t going to work. You can try to suppress that opinion all you want, you can even try and say I’m a white troll (Another derailing tactic) but what I say will still be discovered over and over again everyday. It’s as simple as that.

        2. but what I say will still be discovered over and over again everyday.
          What you say, or what Tim Wise and Frances Cress Welsing say?
          Run along now, silly troll.

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