Tim Wise, Tiresome Twit

[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3Xe1kX7Wsc]

Well, I finally did it. I took the plunge and I watched a video of this asshole. I’ve never heard or seen him talk before. For some reason, that redneck Tennessee accent just makes him even funnier.

I don’t see why people are so wigged out about this guy. I’ve been reading this garbage forever. The whole worthless Left in the US has been talking like this idiot for as long as I can remember. Most of my leftwing websites and all the Left magazines and papers I’ve ever subscribed to were more or less channeling this idiot. So as far as the US Left goes, We Are All Tim Wise Now. And have been, for a long time now.

I don’t even know why I’m watching this. I usually can’t even be bothered to read him either. Why are we reading him and listening to him? Are we masochists? And it’s the same old same old anyway. The Western Left is Tim Wise, and has been for decades. And that’s a damn good reason why we have failed so spectacularly in our project, and why the Right has been running the show for 30 years now. Tim Wise is a diversion, and a silly one at that. But at the end of the day, I honestly think he’s irrelevant. I mean how many White people actually believe this crap. Screw the POC’s. Of course they’ll swallow it whole.

If I played this clip for the liberal to Left Whites I know, they would start shaking their heads and after a while, just walk out of the room. The guy’s a sideshow.

Bye Timmy.

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33 thoughts on “Tim Wise, Tiresome Twit”

      1. Yeah, I listened to that debate a while back.

        Jared didn’t do his homework on racial science and certain statistics, while Tim couldn’t come up with one example of how diversity is a benefit.

        Hard to say who won. Although I noticed that Jared was far more respectful and polite to Tim than vice versa.

        Seriously, someone must have shoved a stick up his ass and it’s somehow permanently stuck.

        Timmy needs to get off of his arrogant moral high ground.

  1. I cannot watch him for any length of time. There are some people I just can’t stand to watch. Bill Clinton has always been one of them. His oily “I feel your pain” jazz was so transparently bullshit, I had to leave the room when he was on. Wise is the same way. I find him repellent. Just can’t get past the dead eyes.

    We questioned on the other thread what motivates him. He writes a bit about his treatment by Christians here:

    http://www.counterpunch.org/wise11082003.html

    I believe he does want to stick it to the Christers, but there’s more to his jihad than that. People are mysterious.

    So as far as the US Left goes, We Are All Tim Wise Now.

    Yes, despite the fact that most people don’t even know who he is. He’s both fascinating and repellent because he’s the apotheosis of an elitist, anti-worker thread in the US left that goes back at least to the Weather Underground, and probably earlier. He’s basically Weatherman lite. The white working class are reactionary pigs, and incapable of being the revolutionary subject. This has been the theme song of everyone from Ayers and Dohrn, to the Maoist Third Worldists, to Noel Ignatiev and Race Traitor to the yuppie whiteness studies cabal. Small groups of people who never accomplished shit, but whose influence extended beyond their number.

    There was a good book by David Mairowitz called The Radical Soap Opera, published in the 70s. In it he makes the point that the US left has always been more about gesture than action. It’s much more important to be seen as part of the vanguard than to actually accomplish anything. Wise fits comfortably within this tradition.

    1. Yeah, I don’t care if Tim says he’s an agnostic.

      His attitude shows that he’s still a Jew. I just love it how he denies Jewish power and influence by pointing out that he was picked on as a kid.

      So, by his logic, does me being threatened and messed with by black kids refute the myth of “white privilege?”

      Just curious.

      And Robert said that we should be nicer to these Jews so they won’t hate us. Well, we certainly should not be dicks. But don’t kiss their ass either. We have to fight fire with fire.

      Anyway, this whole “Judaism is just a religion” line is nonsense. Even though he’s not going to synagogues, Timmy still sees himself as Jewish.

      1. To BAG:

        Re: Tim Wise

        His attitude shows that he’s still a Jew. I just love it how he denies Jewish power and influence by pointing out that he was picked on as a kid.

        Anyway, this whole “Judaism is just a religion” line is nonsense. Even though he’s not going to synagogues, Timmy still sees himself as Jewish.

        Just to clarify, I’m not blaming Tim Wise for despising white people (white Christians in particular) based on his own negative experience. I can understand where his barely contained rage comes from.

        I can’t…as for his suffering as a “Jew” in the Southeastern US… I am calling bullshit. I am 8 years older and I grew up 300 miles away from where he grew up and I rarely had issues over my ethnicity. (Jewish father albeit a convert and a Gentile mother and by the way when I was younger I looked Jewish… unlike very gentile looking Tim Wise..) Sure I had fundamentalists give me a hard time on occasion because I did not (and do not..) believe that someone died for my sins. But they are equal opportunity harassers… (and pretty wimpy at that..) if you are agnostic, atheist, Jewish, or even Roman Catholic (or even sometimes some other brand of Protestant..) you may be in for a diatribe from some Christian fundamentalist in the South. So what. Get the behind me Christian.

        Tim Wise by multiple several definitions is not Jewish. Not according to the state of Israel and not according to Hasidic and Orthodox Jews. His mother was a gentile and his father apparently a non observant Jew. (Basically his father is a Marxist…)

        But what I have found more common is Christian Zionists who are huge supporters of Israel. Case in point a friend of mine recently visited rural Arkansas. He has an obvious Jewish last name. (Silverstein..) Far from being treated poorly because of his perceived religion (he’s non denominational… Irish Catholic / non-observant Jewish father..) he had two people speaking to him in broken Hebrew (he doesn’t speak Hebrew…) who were giving their unflagging support of Jews and Israel.

        From reading Tim Wise and his history I am convinced that his repeated proclamations of being Jewish have nothing to do with any religious beliefs or even upbringing.. but are just a way of tweaking those that he feels oppose his (racial) world view. (Also it gives him license to criticize Israel without being labeled anti-Semitic…)

        Speaking of the South… the first Jewish North American Secretary of State (and Secretary of War…) was not Henry Kissinger. It was Judah P Benjamin.. an observant Jew by the way… for the Confederacy:

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judah_P._Benjamin

        Then there are the origins of Lehman brothers in Alabama:
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lehman_Brothers#Under_the_Lehman_family_.281850.E2.80.931969.29

        To be sure I would not fell comfortable walking around in Orthodox garb in the South (or almost anywhere in the US outside of NYC..) but I could say the same for the appearance of the Amish. It’s not that one is Jewish but that “you look different…” that people want to mess with you. Tim Wise looks like any other Tennessee cracker and even has a bit of Southern accent. He could walk into the Grand ole Opry or go hunting with hillbillies and no one would bat an eye.

        The irony is that the first generation of Jews in the US produced people like Irving Berlin (an observant Jew..) who wrote the most popular Christmas song of all time.. “White Christmas..” At a time when Jews were not entirely accepted as part of the fold.

        Tim Wise is from the that third or fourth generation of (or is his case pretending to be) Jews that in my opinion are seeking an identity in conflict with what he perceives as the dominant White Christian paradigm. When basically the majority of White Christians have no issues with Jew whatsoever. He’s like a guy spoiling for a fight with a bully… when the bully walked away 50 years ago.

  2. Just to clarify, I’m not blaming Tim Wise for despising white people (white Christians in particular) based on his own negative experience.

    I can understand where his barely contained rage comes from.

    All I’m saying is that silly white people who go to his lectures and buy into his nonsense should not be so foolish in the future.

    We should at least RECOGNIZE that he hates us.

    1. Jews who hate White Christians basically just hate White Gentiles, because most all non-Jewish Whites in the West are either Christians or they are coming from a Christian background.

      I reiterate that Jews are White. But like the Armenians, they are very strange Whites in that they deny that they are White and join the non-Whites to wage war on the rest of the Whites. These funny White tribes are essentially White traitors. That’s the best way to see the Jews. The whole “Jews are not White” thing is a crock. Look at this Wise character. Where do these asshole anti-Semites get off saying he’s not White. He’s as White as Betsy Ross.

      1. Well, okay, he’s white in the phenotypical sense.

        However, my definition of who’s white is appearance AND attitude.

        So while Jews look white most of them despise whites and seek to undermine us.

        So to me, Tim Wise is a non-white person who simply looks white.

        1. Huh? Does this work with any other race? Can someone be 100% Han Chinese yet not be considered Chinese because of his political views? Saying Tim Wise is not white makes about just as much sense.

        2. Okay, let me explain. He is white in the technical and physical sense. That I’m not denying.

          However, I don’t see him as a fellow white, because he has made his living demonizing and attacking his own people.

          I don’t consider him one of my own.

          Similarly, I’m sure that Han Chinese would consider fellow Hans who fought on behalf of Tibetans and Northwest Muslims to be traitors.

          But no, I’m not saying that he isn’t technically white. I just don’t think of him as such based on his attitude. He’s a so-called white person.

        3. But what gives you the authority to define who is truly white and who isn’t? I’m sure wise doesn’t seem himself as a traitor to anything. He sees himself as a man who is simply calling the shots as he sees them, despite what mainstream white America thinks. If it’s true, it’s true.

          When certain blacks speak out about black crime and out of wedlock births, they tend to get slammed by the black mainstream as traitors for criticizing blacks. But the fact is, they are right! Just because it pisses many blacks off to hear a black criticizing his own group doesn’t make it any less true. I think Tim Wise is basically just doing the same thing. You, BAG are like the Jesse Jackson that plugs his ears when someone brings up black crime and fatherless homes. Tim Wise is pointing out what white people do wrong, and it’s TRUE. What’s your problem with it?? Do you think whites are beyond criticism?

        4. Tim Wise is half-Scottish, by the way. He’s not 100% Ashkenazi. By the way, Armenians and jews are people who are on the border line between white Europeans and Middle Easterners. Which is why WN’s don’t see them as core whites. WN’s are not Nordicist either; they just draw the line at Turkey and the Caucasus.

        5. You, BAG are like the Jesse Jackson that plugs his ears when someone brings up black crime and fatherless homes.

          Lol! Wow! Never thought the day would come when I’d be compared to Jesse Jackson.

          Tim Wise is pointing out what white people do wrong, and it’s TRUE. What’s your problem with it?? Do you think whites are beyond criticism?

          I don’t think that whites are perfect. Even the most strident of white nationalists don’t (at least deep down, they don’t).

          But really, what’s the great truth that Timmy’s revealing to us? You know, that hasn’t already been regurgitated a million times?

          I mean, besides overheated rhetoric and sarcastic remarks?

          Seriously, what’s this truth you speak of?

          I’ve read much of his work, and I think he’s full of shit.

  3. Other than what he said about the border, which I very much disagree with him on, where is he wrong? I know he gets everyone’s panties in a bunch here, but what specifically did he say that was incorrect with regards to blacks and whites(I leave the border issue aside for now, he’s dead wrong there)?

    1. His whole idea of how the white race was created is just silly.

      According to him, a few rich whites one day gathered together, and decided to magically create the white race as a way to divide the workers.

      To me, white identity was created as a result of Europeans running into radically different looking peoples following the age of exploration. I’ll go with Thaddeus on this one.

      I’ll take the word of a scholar and non-polemicist such as Thad over an arrogant polemicist and pseudo-intellectual such as Wise.

      1. Okay, perhaps I shouldn’t make Thad out to be a perfectly calm non-polemicist.

        He can get a bit sarcastic and go into lecture mode when someone disagrees with him.

        But I have no problem with him. Even as an anti-racist who’s married to a black woman, I don’t regard him as a self-hater.

        1. That asshole was really rude to me, bro. I wanted smack his smartass Whiteboy face.

          And he and all the Blacks ganged up on me and implied over and over that I was…shhhhhh…RACIST! How original!

          They implied repeatedly that I said that no Black person could possibly be a competent scientist. I said no such thing and implied no such thing.

          He was really sarcastic too, calling me “Bobby.” Fuckin asshole. I’ve had it with White twits like him. And yeah, he does seem like a major self-hater. For sure.

          He said some supremely stupid shit about the species and subspecies concept in biology too. He said biology was getting rid of it in favor of the “clinatic” approach. It’s crap. I read Fish and Wildlife and Forest Service reports all the time. When the introduce an animal or plant, the first thing they do is “Taxonomy.” What this is all about is, “Is this a valid species/subspecies or not?” Any federal listing depends on this crucial question, and it’s very important. They often go on and on about whether the thing is actually a valid entity.

          Thaddeus is a dickwad. I see no evidence that biology is abandoning the species approach to taxonomy. Why are they getting rid of the species approach? It’s probably racist!

        2. Yeah, well don’t take it personally!

          Thad has also pissed off almost all of the black commenters there on numerous occasions, as well as other non-white commenters.

          You should have seen his debates/shouting matches with Ank Mie, Leigh, Abagond, and others.

          If for no other reason, I go over to Abagond just to read Thad’s comments and the following debates.

    2. The border? You mean the approximately 1/3 of the video where he expounded on how wonderful illegal aliens and how they don’t effect wages one bit?

      There’s nothing wrong. It’s all correct. But so what? We on the Left have heard this shit forever. Yeah, the elites divide the workers by race. Duh. White workers vote think their worst enemies are Blacks and not the White elites who oppress them. Duh. White workers vote rightwing based on race, screwing themselves economically. I don’t get it. This is news or what? This is Socialism 101. We on the Left have known this forever.

      What is it that Timmy suggests that we should do to remedy this terrible state of affairs? On this tape, he is silent. Perhaps on other tapes, he will be forthcoming.

      Timmy suggests that White workers should unite with Black workers against the elites who oppress them both. Well duh. We on the Left have been saying this for a century now. That’s why we oppose racism. Racism divides the workers and benefits the elites who oppress them. Like I said, Socialism 101. Everyone on the Left knows this.

      I don’t get it. Is this guy telling us something we’ve never heard before or what? This is just the same old same old.

      1. Never mind that anti-racists like him divide the workers by alienating poor/working class whites with their “white privilege” rhetoric, which goes perfectly with their elitism.

        I’ll let Lafleur’s comments on Timmy serve as evidence.

        But yeah, Robert, you’re right. What the hell is he really saying that hasn’t already been said a million times?

      2. Apparently the white folks across the canal in New Orleans didn’t get the memo.

        Look, you and I both saw that video of the bike thieves experiment. Whites will say they are non-racist and treat everyone the same, but when the behavior is recorded on tape, we see it’s anything but that. They are simply not aware of their own racism.

        Tim Wise brings awareness to the issue. That’s the first step, is getting people to talk about and admit it exists. Half this country thinks racism is now history because we have a half black president. If Jesse Jackson or Eric Dyson said the same things, people would think it’s just par for the course. It’s good to see it coming straight from the horses mouth. A white man that understands white racism and white privilege better than even most black people do.

        1. But you see Tulio, that’s the problem

          Substantive policies that help foster positive social change will do the trick.

          All this talk of “aversive racism” won’t. Hate to break it to you, but you anti-racists are not messiahs who will purify white peoples’ souls. Sorry, but talks of ending subtle and unconscious “aversively racist” white thoughts reeks of the thought police .

          I think Ta-Nehisi Coates has a better alternative.

          http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/03/31/the_issue_is_black_and_white/

          In other words, we have to make a critical mass of Americans understand that it’s in their interest to heal this ancient wound, that white people aren’t doing black people a favor by talking about race, they’re saving the country. We have start discussing this like it’s a national security issue.

          We err when we talk about racism as this force that ultimately helps whites, but hurts blacks. The truth is that white people have paid terribly for America’s original sin. Consider that while other countries were able to relatively peaceably excise themselves from slavery, America had to sacrifice some 700,000 of its young in order to move forward. That is a horrible toll. Look at the Civil Rights movement and compare, say, the fates of Atlanta and Birmingham, and then look at how the two cities handle the impending epoch of integration. I confess no hard evidence here, but is it a mistake that some of the least prosperous states in the country are also some of the most historically anti-black? Beyond history, from the perspective of cold capitalism, we are in a dog fight for dominance with rising powers. Isn’t every black child we lose to a broken educational system a soldier lost before we could even enlist her for the coming battle?

          At some point, this has to move beyond a “do the right thing white people” discussion and become a “this is for the good of America” discussion. We have to start convincing people that closing the racial gap helps everyone. The good news is we’re starting to see some action that moves down that path. Glenn rightly alluded to the continuing crisis of the large portion of black men residing behind bars. One of the more promising developments is that states are starting to own up to some of the foolishness of their criminal justice policies. But they’re not doing it out of any love for black folks, they’re doing it because it’s in their economic interest—they simply can’t afford to keep warehousing black men. I think there’s a light in that reasoning. We have to begin to show people how this discussion benefits them.

          Now, as a white nationalist, I don’t even know why I’m recommending better strategies for anti-racists.

          Yeah, just keep following Timmy Wise’s example. The more you alienate whites, they’ll be more willing to flock to us.

        2. To Tulio:
          A white man that understands white racism and white privilege better than even most black people do.

          Some of arguments have merit but I can shot most of them full of holes. Really his whole paradigm (and that of the discussion of White privilege..) is not about the relationship of White and non-Whites in the US but that of Blacks and Whites. He tosses in some ancedotes about Asians and Latinos of occassions but avoids vogorous discussion because in reality a close examination of Asian/White dynamics (at least gen 1.5/gen 2/ gen 3 etc..) is that Asians have pulled ahead of Whites in almost every metric. Where’s the White privilege. It may come as a surprise but that also the case for some of the comparisons between Whites and Latinos. (Latinos live longer and have a lower infant mortality rate than Whites….) Oddly enough on a state by state basis sometimes you’ll find that Latinos have lower rates of incarceration than Whites. (in states like Alaska, Michigan, Florida, Louisiana, Arkansas, etc..) :

          http://sentencingproject.org/doc/publications/rd_stateratesofincbyraceandethnicity.pdf

        3. Good points Uncle Milton.

          I just find it amazing the way so many black activists quote this guy as if he were some amazing scholar.

          This pseudo-intellectual polemicist cannot do anything other than regurgitate what blacks say, while kissing their behinds.

          By the way, I still love your whole “I tremble around non-white women, but it’s not because of fear” line.

          Classic!

  4. there is a whole diversity-based economy out there…people are making BIG bucks on this shit. if i recall…the University of Washington has a VP of Diversity who makes $250,000/yr and has a staff of 20. So much money down the toilet.

    Tim Wise is just one more example. The guy has made a career out of this baloney. What a snake.

  5. Just another braindead dumboCrap JEW promoted white shit for braín dumbfuck.
    ===================

    FACT: The Marxist/Democrats have worked tirelessly to divide this country by creating class envy and encouraging welfare for the lazy and violent minorities that support the handout welfare mentality of their Marxist/Democrat Party. This technique is E-X-A-C-T-L-Y what the Russian street trash under Lenin was encouraged to believe and therefore revolt against anyone who had worked for and earned more than they did. It in fact did succeed in 1917 and continued to grow like a cancer, killing all in the way, subverting entire countries to slavery with the aid of traitors like Gore’s friend Armand Hammer. Check ANY reputable history book.

    FACT: Democrats are SO SIMILAR in their treasonous goals to the objectives of the Communist Party ( the over-throw of our Constitution by any means) – that Party HEAD Avro Kusta Halberg, (AKA-Gus Hall), when asked by the national press as to why the Communists declined to run candidates for President/VP for the first time in decades – answered with this chilling and sobering statement: ” Since the goals of the Democratic party are now so progressive, we feel that for us to field a candidate would be redundant”. [“progressive” is a Marxist ‘buzzword’ indicating being in accord and conformity with Communist objectives and ideology]

    http://mynameisjoecortina.wordpress.com/2010/08/08/the-matrix-crucible-redux-or-what-the-democrats-believe-don%e2%80%99t-believe-and-support-by-a-former-democrat/#more-319

    1. If Hall even said this, hadn’t the CPUSA been a joke for a long time by the end of his tenure? I Googled this quote and Hall’s name, and didn’t see it anywhere that wasn’t another wingnut cut-and-paste thing.

  6. To Bay Area Guy:

    By the way, I still love your whole “I tremble around non-white women, but it’s not because of fear” line.

    I initialing tried to reply rationally by saying the number of White people who are truly concerned about becoming minorities in the US is relatively small. I have said repeatedly on Abagond’s site that I live in California (which currently has a White plurality that looks fairly close to what the demographic projections will be for Whites in 40 years..) and I not running away. Her response that I was secretly trembling in fear and she basically kept on posting that… so I came out with my snide remark. Aside from NatashaW (who got the joke..) the reactions were pretty negative but AM stopped her nonsense. What I have observed in places like the Philippines and Costa Rica is quite a few White guys in their 50s (and older..) take up with the local ladies. These guy are more likely to be the camp with Fred Reed than Thaddeus. There have been multiple threads on Abagond’s site discussing White male fetishism for various Women of color.. both in the US and overseas…but apparently pointing that out (and mocking both White men and AM at the same time…) is not acceptable.

  7. LOL @ Tim Wise attacking environmentalists and then dodging questions about his own failure to walk the walk or discuss the effect of overshoot and environmental issues on any movement for systemic change:

    http://www.timwise.org/2010/08/with-friends-like-these-who-needs-glenn-beck-racism-and-white-privilege-on-the-liberal-left/comment-page-1/#comment-501

    First of all, the dude makes lots of money and lives in a 3000 square foot house. He complains (falsely) that environmentalists don’t discuss the disproportionate effect that anthropogenic climate change has on Africans, but dismisses individual attempts to limit consumption and environmental damage as “ascetic feel-goodism”. Never mind that this itself was a straw-man answer to the question of what a just, sustainable society would look like.

    If Wise is waiting for the government to impose limits on his consumption, he will be free to enjoy his wealth for quite a long time, and he knows it. He’ll never admit that the system which needs to be changed is capitalism, because it serves him very well.

    I doubt if Wise would accept a weak answer like “I do consider them every day” from the targets of his interrogation. LOL.

    Ultimately he’s not serious. He’s just about pimping his books and maintaining his market share.

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