I asked this question of Ferdinand Bardamu, the fine blogger at In Mala Fide. I work as a therapist/counselor for mentally ill people, but I mostly only deal with anxiety disorders and in particular OCD which I am something of an expert on.
Anyway, I got to thinking where OCD behavior is on the Alpha -Beta – Omega spectrum. On thing is for sure, it can definitely turn women off. I know guys with this illness who have not had sex in 20 years. Depending on the nature of the obsessions, it can really be a woman repellent and lead to a lot of avoidance. I’ve also noticed that a lot of these guys seem to have issues with occasional and sometimes longer-lasing impotence. That seems to go along with the anxiety stuff.
I also noticed that some of these guys have girlfriends. Some of them are getting a lot of sex too. Some are deeply depressed, even suicidal. Others complain to their girlfriends all the time that they are worried that they are child molesters, even though they are not. Incredibly, their women put up with this, love them dearly, stick by them through thick and thin, and even give them lots of sex. Some of the women are pretty good looking too.
I’m no stranger to the type of behavior these guys are engaging in, though I’m over much of it as I age. My experience was that depression and anxiety were serious killers for relationships with women. My anxiety and depression aroused nothing but contempt and raging hatred. It’s true that some of them felt sorry for me too, and there were a lot of good times in there, but I came away with a bad taste in my mouth.
My questions to Ferdinand were whether this was Beta or Omega behavior on the part of the guys, and how it was possible that these guys had hot, horny, loving women who put up with this shit.
The easiest way to think of the Alpha-Beta-Omega spectrum is like this:
Alpha – inherently attractive to women
Beta – neither attractive nor repulsive to women
Omega – inherently repulsive to women
Betas are like your average guy – a few issues maybe, but they can function on a day to day basis and are more or less normal. I’d say 60-80 percent of men are beta. Omegas are like homeless bums or ultra-dorky World of Warcraft shut-ins with hygiene issues – people on the margins of society and are pretty much loathed by everyone.
I’d say having extreme, crippling anxiety when women are around (as opposed to the normal anxiety that most guys have) is Omega. Basically any trait that would impede not only getting with women but just being a functioning, social human being is Omega. For more info, you might want to read this blog.
The guy who writes it describes himself as an Omega and has more first-hand knowledge of social dysfunction then I do.
As for how some of ’em have girlfriends, it may be because they have other redeeming attributes that balance out their issues. There’s a class of girls who would be attracted to a guy like that because they view him as a “project” and think they can fix him with their love or something. Of course, they have to be attracted to him to begin with.
And there are some chicks who like wimpy guys. Outliers, but they exist. I was in college when the whole emo fad was starting to get big. One of my roommates was a whiny little bitch who was emo to a tee – lispy voice, effeminate manner and dress, complained all the time. Only thing he didn’t do was slit his wrists. He basically had a rotating harem of three or four girls for the months that I knew him. Some girls just find that shit cute. Don’t know why.
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21 thoughts on “Where Do Anxiety Disorders Fit in on the Alpha – Beta – Omega Continuum?”
Hmm, so are we defining Alpha, Beta and Omega based solely on how women react to said male? I agree that women will behave the way you laid out, but is that what defines the three? I thought Alpha meant being a leader of men. A man that OTHER MEN look up to. If you have that quality, well then the women will just naturally follow because afterall, people just follow you period. You are like the loudest Gorilla in the jungle that can beat his chest the hardest and scare away the other male gorillas. I see Betas as the men who follow and not lead. The men who get to eat what’s left over after the Alpha has had the best pickings of the kill. And the Omegas, just look at that video of the pedophile you posted the other day and you can’t get more Omega than that.
Not all women demand high levels of dominance or personal competence. Depression and anxiety are relationship killers, usually, but I think they are also often associated with personal qualities like empathy and intelligence that some women value highly.
I believe the A-B-O spectrum is defined through genetics. Which is to say Alpha males are above average genetically hence they are more handsome, burlier and plain manly. They ought to have sex with women earliest to spread their superior genes. Betas have ho-hum average genes hence everything is boringly average about them and if they want to get some then they’re going to have to put in some serious effort. Lastly the Omega males have crappy genes and defects that repel women. I would go as far to say Omega males have some sort of literal disorder – physical or mental that precludes them from have sex because women sure as hell don’t want their offspring to carry obvious defects.
Some women find wimpiness attractive? I don’t know. It easy to consider putting women in the A-B-O too and presume some women can’t be particularly choosey. Then again women don’t seem to have to try as hard as there’s something to be said where Beta women get more sex than Alpha women. However I guess it called “peacocking” for a reason not “peahenning”.
For the omega male, think of Baldrick in the classic British TV series Black Adder, except not funny. At my old job in there was a guy whom I mentally dubbed Baldrick. I once accidentally called him that out loud, but he didn’t get it, fortunately.
Some women do like wimpy guys, but they despise them at the same time. You might say they love to despise and belittle them.
I’ve noticed that hardcore feminist liberal women often end up with wimpy guys. They tend to walk all over the guys and these women are very emasculating and controlling.
Yes, I think Andre Dworkin ended up with one of them. People often assume guys like that are gay, but it’s really an intolerable insult to gay guys.
Andrea Dworkin. I mean Andrea.
OCD men tend to keep a woman occupied. This might be one explanation. Also, they tend to expresss their feelings (sometimes ad nauseam) but still.
A lot of women are not as hard-hearted as some MRAs make out (there are of course plenty of bitches). What often happens in a relationship breakdown is that we tend to assume someone who is stoic is stoic because they don’t care about us, and therefore we don’t feel we owe it to be nice to them, in fact we might go out of our way to hurt them a little because we feel they don’t care.
Of course this is bullshit, but often the stoic guys never ever express their feelings, before or after a break up, so we never find this out. I only worked it out from talking to guy friends, never from an ex.
If on the other hand someone expresses their vunerability, it may actually attach us to them (whether or not this can last in the long-term is another question, saintliness has an expiration date).
So these would be two explanations why some OCD men get on better with women than expected.
Another explanation might be my theory that a very high proportion of women suffer from low level OCD. We tend to obsess about things, particularly appearance related matters, much more than people realise. I suspect American women are even worse about this. So we don’t necessarily recoil from OCD in the same way that non-OCD men and even men with different forms of OCD do.
A lot of the great fictional romantic heroes are, in fact, “broken,” displaying behaviors that can be understood as symptomatic of mental illness. The obvious contemporary example is the whole vampire thing. The “Twilight” vampires aren’t outsiders because of their outre beliefs or habits, but because of their, uh . . . psychological disorders. The twentieth century vampire is all about a sort of stylized depressive behavior, which is evidently very appealing to women? The romantic hero, from Young Werther to Jack Kerouac’s Sal Paradise, is anxious, depressed, and frequently obsessive (though rarely compulsive). These aren’t male fantasies: both Heathcliff and Rochester are basket cases. This shouldn’t be surprising: a lot of the prescriptions for Alpha male behavior we see on these blogs flirts with sociopathy, yes? Mental illness is one clear way to reject mainstream values. (Of course, I’m not talking about genuine mental illness here.)
I agree with this, and I’m going to add that a lot of the great fictional heroines are also quite obviously mentally ill as well.
Being mentally ill has nothing to do with being an Omega. If your mental illness is stylish and compelling enough, and combined with competence and charisma, it might actually help. Lord knows, it never hurts to be a little sociopathic in this society.
I have some OCD, and it tends to make me kind of picky with women and a bit demanding. Despite what many people say, women rather like the attention of being micromanaged sometimes. Also, I think a man with OCD is likely to have a few interesting kinks, which might appeal to women.
Sex is about crossing boundaries, repetition, role-playing; all of these have special meaning for the more obsessive types.
I think sex has more intrinsic meaning for obsessives. Less obsessive people appear to treat sex as just another bodily function. But obsessive people tend to see sex as having enormous moral and intellectual significance. I suspect that people with OCD “invented” a lot of the more bizarre sexual perversions, and are just “kinkier” generally.
People here should be careful about what they think they are talking about.
In “Happiness Is Mandatory” America it is possible to have “anxiety” or “upset” without being OCD.
The crazies just look at you with their wise eyes and knowing smiles. After all, just because something was discovered 1982, and the major discovers received a NOBLE PRIZE for it in 2005 doesn’t mean a good Doctor, a Top Doc, should, you know, test for this very common condition in someone displaying symptoms.
After all, the test could be, like, 50 bucks and take less than twenty minutes. Technically, the Top Doc didn’t even know it existed. It’s a bit much to expect a Top Doc to keep up with EVERY Noble Prize Winning Medical Discovery, right? I mean REALLY. There are only so many hours in the day!
The stress induced from talking to raving madmen might appear to be OCD or “anxiety” to some.
Betas are ‘normal’. Women shit test men to determine how ‘normal’ their reactions are. Non-reactivity to external stimuli, especially from the prodding of women is an Alpha trait. Among animals you have the Handicap Principle. Males of the species prove their genetic fitness through the potential provocation of predators (ie peacocks don’t just attract females with their bright coloration, but make themselves a more obvious meal). The bravest, cockiest peacock is one likely to increase his reproductive success. I guess there is a chance you could have a peacock that has all of these indicators of genetic fitness by virtue of some nuerological disorder, and as such would become very genetically succesful due to it.
Even though it seems counter-intuitive a lot of anxious, or compulsive guys are very dead pan socially. Even though they might not be conventionally Alpha but they will breeze through a lot of shit tests because they don’t respond in a ‘normal’, Beta fashion and often are totally non-reactive because they are not socially adept enough to catch what are to most men very obvious social cues. Of course you have men who are compulsive in their attention to social cues as well, and I imagine this is almost always a killer.
I’ve also known a lot of women, who in their younger years played with fire in chasing Alpha cock and got burned bad. They stick almost entirely with nebbish doormat type guys because they are afraid of a romantic situation being beyond their control. They are intensely loyal (as long as you don’t count cheating as disloyalty). They stick with their security blanket boyfriends no matter how much they profess their hatred for them to other men. Constantly.
As someone else pointed out as well, OCD people can be very demanding, and making a girl jump through your hoops is another tenet of seduction. That demanding, uncompromising behavior is another thing Betas don’t exhibit.
I disagree with the ‘Leader of Men’ thing because I don’t think it fits in with the sociobiological nature of humans. The leader of a human pack to your caveman minds isn’t the same thing as leadership or authority in modern society. Men look towards de facto leadership, although they will often follow de jure authority.
Women really can’t distinguish between the two in terms of sexual selection. De jure authority is capable of signaling that it is a de facto leader. I don’t believe in the ancient past of humanity there was a distinction because social structures were much smaller. All authority derived from real leadership qualities; Alpha qualities. Men distinguish here because of intraspecies competition for mates. We are looking out for who is actually capable of being a rival on a more concrete level. Barney Fife is discarded by men as a rival, although that slick badge and uniform probably produces some tingles. It at least puts him in a position to have his Alpha qualities put to the test, which is a foot in the door. More than many men can get.
Yes to some of the points in the last comment. Admittedly, I was a very good-looking young man, but my introversion and OCD were not a major handicap, I think because coming across as a bit remote can probably be attractive to a certain kind of woman. I used to attract a lot of girls whose Dads were scientists and so on – perhaps these girls were used to remote-seeming men.
Being OCDish in romantic and sexual situations can make a man, as you say Kyle, want to make a woman “jump through hoops”. To take an example, if you are like me, and your wife puts on something sexy in the bedroom, you are likely to want her to adjust it a bit, and then a bit more, so it is just right – or be very fussy about her position or something. This probably comes off as demanding and “assholeish”, and therefore sexy.
I have OCD, POCD, and anxiety dissorder. I have a lot of things going for me but these traits diffinatly impede. Its makes it difficult to approach people unless I am drunk and people can pick up on it if you have anxiety which also makes me feel very confortable going out in public.
I like to be OMEGA MALE. I’m not zeta male because they reject women, i dont reject women. I see myself as omega because i’m not independent person, i failed in life. Omegas often are the great enemy of the alpha in times of school, university, because they are loners and alphas want to get rid of them, because they dont obey the alpha. I was hated by entire school up till 2004 when i finish school. Omegas are hated, people dont value individuality. On adult life, more individualism, the alphas dont care more for the omega, the omega is more a loner struggling with life. Sorry the english.
Very interesting comment, Gregorio. Never heard anyone say anything like that. Thanks for making the world an interesting place.