Does Dumb Population = Dumb Government?

A new commenter, Portland Bus Driver, suggests that the IQ of a general population is reflected in the IQ of its top state officials. I beg to disagree. He also points to some behavioral differences between his Hispanic and Black passengers and suggests that it’s not all IQ. In fact he’s correct. Illegals probably have lower IQ’s than Blacks. Race realists typically bandy about the “Blacks act bad because they’re stupid” thing. In the case of US and UK Blacks anyway, I’d just as soon chuck this theory.

There is most definitely a causal relationship between higher IQ and a potential economic situation. Look at predominately East Asian and white countries compared to any black country, and South Africa does not count. Brazil is 50% white I read somewhere, and South Africa is like 12% white.

The point is that the commanding heights of the economy and government must be in the hands of higher IQ people. Once the lower IQ masses take over –See: Haiti, Rhodesia, the US after George Bush 🙂 — the country declines.

That being said, environment and culture and all of that can still play a role.

In my experience Hispanics ride the bus to work early in the morning with lunchboxes, they show me respect and pay their fare (or have counterfeit fare). Blacks start getting on later in the afternoon in comfy workout style clothes to go “chill”. Then the Hispanics come home from work.

Later that night the blacks get back on in expensive clothes and jewelry and watches and flash their bus pass which is right next to their food stamp card, they give me a dirty look and use obscene language right next to children. I could go on, my point is that it is not just IQ, Hispanics may have some other trait that predisposes them to work. Every black run society, with a few exceptions that are easily explained, is economically “disadvantaged.”

I would say it is the IQ of the population that matters. Yet South Africa was able to work pretty well as long as the high-IQ Whites were running the state. S. African White IQ = 94.

But I bet that in the present South African government, at the highest positions, you have folks with high IQ’s. Same in Latin America, South Asia, SE Asia, Arabia, North Africa, the Caribbean. Even though the general population may be dumb as rocks, the folks at the top of government are typically well-educated and bright.

So I don’t think low IQ country = low IQ idiots in government. I just don’t buy it. Besides, past a certain point, IQ just does not matter. It’s “high enough.”

More than the state, it is the IQ of the general population that matters in terms of how the society functions. Let’s not place too much emphasis on government here! In Haiti, I imagine that those at the stop of the state are bright folks. I have met some of the Haitian elite, and they were not stupid at all. I’ve also met some of the African elite, and they were not dumb either. I have met very bright Africans from all over Sub-Saharan Africa. Surely there are enough bright folks to form a competent state at the highest levels.

You may start running into problems at the local levels, but I still say that it’s the composition of society, not the state, that matters. If your society has an IQ of 67 or 72, I am sorry, but chances are you are going to have lots of problems functioning in the modern world no matter how bright your officials are. This is what is really going on here when we compare say Africa with East Asia and the US.

The “Obama is in charge so dumb Blacks rule” thing is a fallacy. I don’t know Obama’s IQ, but it has to be higher than George Bush’s. Obama’s administration is full of bright folks of all different races. They are certainly intelligent enough to run a modern state well. He is conflating a relatively lower Black IQ with “Obama” and his admin. But Obama is very smart, and so is his Cabinet and his aides.

The IQ of Mexican immigrants is probably ~85. The IQ of US Blacks is 86.8. The illegals are less intelligent than the Blacks. But look at the behavioral difference. Let us not place too much weight on IQ.

Also, let us not conflate US and UK Black IQ = 86.8 and 86, with African IQ = 67. The IQ’s of US and UK Blacks are about 20 points higher. That alone almost makes them a separate race.

There are many societies that function quite well and have IQ’s of 86-87. US and UK Black IQ is certainly adequate to function in modern society. That they don’t seem to do too well has its reasons I’m sure, but IQ can’t possibly be one of them.

He suggests that every Black society is economically disadvantaged. However, there are some Black nations in the Caribbean and even in Africa that are doing quite well.  Equatorial Guinea and Gabon have per capita incomes of ~$20,000/yr.

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66 thoughts on “Does Dumb Population = Dumb Government?”

  1. I’ve never given much weight to IQ. I don’t believe that those tests accurately assess true intelligence.

    On another note, this may sound horrible, but I believe we should just place one of those domes (like in “The Simpson’s Movie”) over the South. Due to the loss of uneducated and violent blacks and whites, our overall educational attainment would rise, our obesity rates would drop slightly, and bible thumping Republicans would no longer be voted into office due to the Southern strategy.

    I know it’s unrealistic, but one can only hope. No offense to all the decent Southerners out there!

    1. It was suggested in Slate that the rest of the country should ask to re-negotiate the Treaty of Appomattox, and demand that the South secede.

  2. Long time no see, Robert.

    You would thing this bus driver, being so high IQ and all would be doing something more high IQish than driving a damn bus. Talk about dead end job. He could take a lesson from Moscow bus drivers who transported drugs from one stop to the other. This is taking free enterprise to new levels.

    These brutha’s that this guy disparages have won. They sleep late and party hard and get most things free which other people work for. Whats wrong with that? Who’s the joke on.

    This guy is way over his head, IQ wise, driving a bus. I bet he shows up on time for work too.

  3. The difference between low-IQ illegals and blacks, is that if the illegals don’t work they don’t eat and if they commit crime they get shipped out. The blacks get food stamps and ghetto chix.

  4. Dear Robert
    I agree with you. You can have very bright people at the top everywhere, but the rest of the population matters too. Let’s take two armies: A and B. Both have 500,000 men and 200 generals. In both the average IQ of the generals is 135, but the average IQ of the non-generals in army A is 100 while in army B it is 85. Which army is likely to win if they have to fight each other? I would bet on army A.

    Cheers. James

  5. I don’t know Obama’s IQ,

    We’d know if he’d just release his school records, wouldn’t we? What could he be hiding..?

    Speaking of Obama, it seems he has pretty much crapped on all the blacks that voted him into office. Are they stupid enough to vote for him again in 2012?

    Of course they are.

  6. Race realists typically bandy about the “Blacks act bad because they’re stupid” thing.

    Well, if you’re intelligent, you would *think* before you act. You wouldn’t pull a knife or gun out on someone simply because you lost a basketball game or an argument. Plus, you would be far less likely to engage in impulsive behavior and have a greater ability to delay gratification. What do blacks do when they get their welfare checks? Spend it on a perm or a weave.

  7. Dear Robert Lindsay,
    You are wrong. Equatorial Guinea and Gabon have economes driven by oil. They have extremely low IQs (Equatorial Guinea – 59, one of the lowest in the world), so when the oil is depleted, they will return back to their previous level of human development.

    1. Does it make any difference how you make your money in this world? If Black countries are able to become wealthy due to oil or Lucky Charms or Pet Rocks or whatever, what difference does it make? You’re either successful or not, and you can’t compromise success. It’s certainly possibly for Black nations to become fairly wealthy in our modern world. They are not all doomed to become economic basket cases.

  8. aah:
    Well, I sit on my ass all day, I get a pension and the best health benefits and pay no premium. I make 70K a year with 2 hrs O.T. a day. I make more than either of my brothers with degrees. Work union live better. And yes, the joke is on me, and all the working people in this country.
    Now that I’ve defended myself, let me defend my position: We have a perfect real life experiment to point to, Rhodesia. A small minotity of white farmers and technocrats ran a very successful economy, a major crop exporter. Blacks took it all over and now there is famine. Oh, and genocide on the whites. I predict once the genocide gets into full swing in South Africa, if it isn’t all ready, the whites that can will flee, and that economy too wil come to ruin.

    1. That’s not what happened, # 1.

      First of all, Rhodesia exported crops, sure. But as far as I can tell, the Blacks were extremely poor. The Whites had all the good land and the Blacks were forced onto marginal land with small plots. Which they rapidly wore out and which eroded all over the damned country. I doubt if those Blacks were able to feed themselves very well.

      Well, Zimbabwe needed a land reform, but the UK and the US stood up for a small group of White farmers who had 100% of the good farmland. So the land reform never went down. Well, the war veterans started doing land invasions. Mugabe actually did not support it and denounced it at first, but after a while he had to support it because it was so popular.

      But the UK and US embargoed Zimbabwe and that nuked the whole economy because they could not get access to any credit at all. Nobody would sell them anything, not even one tractor. The US and UK are trying to overthrow Mugabe, all because of a small # of White farmers who own all the good land.

      Sure, the Blacks took over the land, but the economy is nuked so it’s hard to grow stuff. Plus the land reform was very chaotic.

      There has been no genocide of White Zimbabwe farmers. 7 of them got killed.

      The White nationalists have framed this whole thing as “niggers are so stupid they can’t even grow food.” It’s not true. Blacks grow food all over Africa and the Caribbean. They’re actually pretty good at it. They grew food for many 1000’s of years before the White man came.

      The US and UK ruined the economy of Zimbabwe all to throw out Mugabe and they have played into this whole racist fantasy. It’s sickening the way the media plays up this White racist crap.

      All over Africa, Whites owned most or all of the good farmland. The White farms were taken over in every African country. The farms were taken over by Africans. Last I heard in every country in Africa, Black folks are not having any problems at all growing food. If the Zimbabwe thing was normal (Blacks are so dumb they can’t even grow food), Blacks would have gone extinct in Africa long ago and we would see Zimbabwe like scenes in all the other countries. But we don’t see this.

    2. Robert, I don’t believe in essentialism or other eugenicist crap. Therefore, I don’t buy into the whole “blacks are inherently dumb” BS.

      At the same time, when you place all the blame on the U.S and UK for crippling Zimbabwe, you sound a lot like Mugabe! Truth is, Mugabe is a corrupt and violent dictator, who terrorized his fellow blacks as much as whites.

      All I know is that before Mugabe kicked the whites off their land, Zimbabwe was Africa’s breadbasket. After Mugabe went all “black power” on whites, Zimbabwe become one of the earth’s most miserable nations.

      Also, not just Zimbabwe, but the rest of Africa exported food during the waning days of white rule. Of course, we now know what happened. However, unlike WNs, I don’t think it has anything to do with IQ, but rather corrupt and violent dictators who sold out their own people in order to enrich themselves. It also comes from Africa’s unwillingness to reclaim its old traditions. Many African autocrats espouse radical Socialism and Marxism, believing that Capitalism is an evil western invention. Well, it turns out that a version of Capitalism existed in many parts of Africa well before the white man came.

      If Africa would stop asking the west for aid, relying on China, and embrace their old traditions, they could fix their problems. One of Africa’s most successful nations, Botswana, reclaimed its old traditions. Africa must help itself, because the west and China won’t help them (China’s not in Africa out of any love for black people).

    3. Sure, the exported food, probably while the Blacks were starving. Lots of poor countries with tons of poverty and even hunger export food. It’s quite common. They grow food for export, not for consumption. I’ve never heard of any cases where after White colonialism ended, Blacks took over agriculture and ag collapsed. Except for Zimbabwe. Which to me implies that Zimbabwe is anomalous.

      If you can show me some good examples of ag production before and after White colonialism in Africa that indicate how ag collapsed in various countries after the Whites left, I’d really like to see it. Sure, the Whites were growing food for export. Were they feeding the Blacks? Dubious. I imagine that malnutrition, etc, was at very high levels. Since the Whites left, Blacks are mostly growing for consumption. Also since the Whites left, Blacks flooded into the cities. They didn’t do that before. And it’s hard to feed them.

      I’m not aware that Black African ag generally has problems because Blacks are too stupid to figure out how to grow food. Yet this is the premise of the whole “Zimbabwe argument.” It’s basically a White nationalist racist argument, and the Western media is pushing it! Disgusting!

      I’ve read a lot about the Zimbabwe situation. The economy blew up after the West put sanctions on them. Not before. That’s what started this whole mess.

    4. There isn’t a Hell of a lot of socialism going on in Africa. Trust me. I wish there were, as a socialist. Basically what you have is the conservative dream of a minimal state and an ultra free market. As one might expect, it produces the typical ruinous results. Real socialism in Africa, like in Mozambique, produced some pretty good results.

    5. I completely acknowledge that the west developed export, not import economies in Africa. Therefore, whatever wealth was developed was not developed for the natives, but for the exporters.

      At the same time, government mismanagement has yielded terrible results. I doubt that there was mass starvation during the waning days of Ian Smith’s reign. There are some (not trying to speak for all) black Zimbabweans who wax nostalgic for colonialism, not out of any love for whites, but because they at least had food to eat.

      The problem is that correlation does not equal causation. We don’t know exactly why Zimbabwe collapsed. The west did impose sanctions, but mismanagement of the farms also resulted in disaster.

      There seems to be a “the white man made them do it” belief when it comes to Zimbabwe and its problems. Unfortunately, while Mugabe continues to blame the white man, his people continue to suffer and starve.

    6. Why didn’t “mismanagement of ag” result in the collapse of ag production all over Africa when the Whites left. Zimbabwe is pretty much anomalous, and yes, there have been famines in Africa for centuries. The main problem nowadays is probably exploding population and poverty. The West ruined Zimbabwe’s economy. Inflation is something like %100,000 a year. Food is so expensive that most don’t have the money to buy it.

      Sure Zimbabweans are nostalgic for colonialism, some of them. You find Blacks all over Africa saying the same thing. Of course, in some ways, those nations functioned better with Whites running them and the Blacks have run them into the ground. But last time I checked, Black Africans are capable of growing food!

      Here is what happened. There was supposed to be an orderly land reform. The UK was supposed to pay for it as per a deal. The UK reneged and dragged their heels for a decade and nothing happened. The Blacks were land starved, and eventually the war veterans started doing farm invasions. There was theft of property, but not much actual homicide, so it’s no genocide.

      Well, the land seizures were carried out by gangs of war veterans. They were supposed to be done in an orderly fashion by the state. Mugabe actually opposed the land seizures for a long time, until he finally started going along because they were so popular. Because this was done in a chaotic and unorganized manner, chaos ensued. The war vets did not really know how to run farms very well (land reform needs a lot of state money and input) and in a lot of cases, the farms were simply stripped of assets and left barren. Mugabe wanted to get ag going again but the West embargoed him and no banks would deal with them. They couldn’t even buy one tractor. The West ruined Zimbabwe’s economy, all apparently to save thousands of White farmers, who had all of the good farmland, and 50% of all farmland in the nation.

      Most things you read about Zimbabwe in the press are lies. There’s a Western media campaign out there to destroy Mugabe for not playing along.

      One example is where Mugabe supposedly destroyed huge swathes of the capital where his opposition supposedly lives, in order to make them homeless and kill them. There were problems with this project, but there were all kinds of people living in those slums. Maybe they should not have torn them down so fast as they did, but the whole reason was urban renewal. After the slums were torn down, the government is building much better urban housing for the former residents. See? You never hear that.

      Media propaganda.

      It’s true that Mugabe has brutalized the opposition, and I believe he has killed many of them.

    7. One example is where Mugabe supposedly destroyed huge swathes of the capital where his opposition supposedly lives, in order to make them homeless and kill them. There were problems with this project, but there were all kinds of people living in those slums. Maybe they should not have torn them down so fast as they did, but the whole reason was urban renewal. After the slums were torn down, the government is building much better urban housing for the former residents. See? You never hear that.

      Well Robert, that sounds a lot like urban renewal. So, are the residents just supposed to jump for joy when their houses are destroyed, just because a corrupt government promises to build them new ones?

      Also, going back to mismanagement, you have to understand what’s going on in investors’ minds. They want to invest in a country and economy that is stable. Did race play a role? Certainly. However, when the leader cannot prevent militant veterans from forcibly taking lands and then poorly managing them, investors are going to hesitate, because they want their investment to be safe and profitable. The west certainly hasn’t helped, but to say that they’re the sole cause of Zimbabwe’s predicament is a bit misleading.

      I know Africans are capable of growing food. The only problem is that their violent and corrupt leaders care more about pigging out than ensuring basic security for their people.

    8. You’re right about the one drop rule. That is the one thing that really distinguishes American racism from racism in other nations.

      There is definitely as much racism, discrimination, and oppression in Latin America than the United States, if not more so. However, if you look white and are well educated and middle class, you’re accepted as white and granted all of the privileges available in society. It doesn’t matter whether or not you have a drop or two of black or indigenous blood.

      Despite anti-dark skinned discrimination in Latin America, there isn’t the same obsession over racial purity.

  9. I think you may be making a few assumptions about me. I am not a W.N. or even a conservative really. Until recently I was a total racial egalatarian. I was a community organizer for the AFL-CIO. I’ve read Chomsky, Zinn, Marx, I even have an autographed copy of “exception to the rulers” by Amy Goodman.

    Then I got a job in the public sector. I was ready for all the stereotypes about blacks to be dispelled. Guess what? Anyway, black people treating me like shit made me question my beliefs, do a little research and tada! That’s how a Race realist is made.

    So I understand all your arguments about white neo-colonialism, so please give mine a whirl.

    Say white people never arrived in Africa (we are talking Sub-Saharan, Egypt is a whole different place for example.) What would be happening in Zimbabwe? A few thousand tribal peoples would be subsistence farming. No “Economy” for whites to ruin. Not even a written language my friend. Thanks to white farmers’ technolgy, and white modern medicine, there are millions at risk.

    We placed an embargo on Cuba, and after the USSR fell, Cubans were worried. Well, they were able to feed themselves. Dirty little secret, look at many of the technocrats in the Cuban govt. Blue eyes and everything, I shit you not. Fidel also is a genius with a photographic memory.

    Now the rest of SS Africa should be able to grow economically and It can’t because of high testosterone and low IQ. So it benefits at the periphery of the western world with billions in aid, but when things get real tight out here, then you will have your example of failing farms and starvation all throughout Africa. Then Africa can go back to having a small population and subsistence farming. That they can handle.

    I apologize for my error, I confused S.A. and Zimbabwe. However Genocide is happening now in S.A.
    “White farmers ‘being wiped out’
    Over 3,000 have been killed since 1994. Now the ANC is accused of fanning the hate.”
    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/africa/article7078730.ece

    Also, Haiti was the richest colony when ran by whites. Blacks took over, commited genocide on the whites, way before Hitler made it cool, and the country has been a shithole ever since.
    http://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/authors/Kurtagic-Haiti.html

    1. Then I got a job in the public sector. I was ready for all the stereotypes about blacks to be dispelled. Guess what? Anyway, black people treating me like shit made me question my beliefs, do a little research and tada! That’s how a Race realist is made.

      This is one of the stupidest things I’ve read in this forum. First off, people who take the bus are generally the dregs of society. I hate to say that because I am pro public transit for environmental reasons. I have taken the bus on occasion when my car was being repaired and I marvel at how many creepy, weirdo, disturbed and depressing looking people I see riding the bus. Almost nobody looks “normal”. So to base your opinions off any group based on who rides the bus utter bullshit. You’re looking at, and I hate to say it, society’s losers in that they can’t even afford a car. Not that I’m saying everyone that takes the bus is a loser, some are green types that just don’t want to own cars, but that’s not the typical bus rider.

      Here’s a personal example; My mother is a nurse. She worked for a county hospital in Los Angeles. This was back in the early 90s. As you can imagine, county hospitals here are bursting at the seams with with illegal alien Mexicans. She told me once how all she sees day in and day out are illegals walking in without a pot to piss in and pregnant and getting welfare and how disgusted she was having to see this everyday. Then she said, “sometimes I wish somebody would set off a bomb in the place and blow them up.” Then she caught herself and said, “oh that was terrible I shouldn’t have said that.” Now if her main exposure to Mexicans were in a college class or where she’d regular talk to Mexicans in the middle class she’d have never said anything like that. And here’s the thing, my mom really isn’t a racist woman. She said something racist in a moment of outrage, but if say I told her I was marrying a Mexican woman, she could care less. Nor does she have any concept of any race being genetically inferior or any crap like that. But working around the most socially pathological Mexicans everyday made her bigoted towards Mexicans, even though these dregs weren’t representative of all people of Mexican descent. They were just the worst ones.

      I think you are essentially doing the same with blacks here.

      You might want to try making some friends with educated, professional blacks. It might at least balance out your feelings a bit more.

    2. Also a few other comments. I don’t think you know much about pre-colonial Africa. I think like many whites, you tend to speak of Africa like it’s a country instead of a large continent that varies vastly from region to region. Not all of Africa was at the neolithic level. There were a number of empires in western sub-saharan Africa with courts, governments, armies, trade, currency, universities, high level art and agriculture.

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/africa/features/storyofafrica/4chapter3.shtml

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/africa/features/storyofafrica/4chapter7.shtml

      Read the part about food. There were black kingdoms wealthy in food production BEFORE Europeans showed up.

      In East Africa, Nubia was a black civilization that goes back as old as ancient Egypt. I’m not going to give you a rundown on all this, information is easily available for further edification. And I’m not some Afrocentrist extremist claiming Beethoven was black either, in case you were thinking of accusing me of such. I just get tired of whites talking about African history as if it was just one continent full of starving naked people swinging from vines.

      As for your Haiti comment. Haiti might have been rich, but ONLY the whites. The blacks that were their human chattel were certainly not rich. If you’d’ been black, I’m sure you’d have driven killed your slavemasters as well if you had the chance. The problem of Haiti is just that, it is a nation of freed slaves. What do freed slaves know about running a government? In other black Carribean countries, like Barbados for example, there was a transition period where blacks learned western style government practice. Thus it has a high standard of living now. I also find it interesting how white nationalist always want to use Haiti as an example of a black Caribbean country when it in fact, it is unusually poor and there other black countries in that reason that fare vastly better.

    3. We placed an embargo on Cuba, and after the USSR fell, Cubans were worried. Well, they were able to feed themselves. Dirty little secret, look at many of the technocrats in the Cuban govt. Blue eyes and everything, I shit you not. Fidel also is a genius with a photographic memory.

      Forgot to address this yesterday. What you see there in Cuba is nothing unique to Cuba. It’s pretty much the case in all of Latin America. Latin America is quite racist against blacks and Indians. In Mexico, it’s the same thing. White Mexicans have most the power and prestige and the Amerindians are considered lowly scum. Non-white presidents in Latin America are rare. Hugo Chavez and Evo Morales are one of the few examples or more indigenous looking men rising to power. Now I know people like you prefer to believe that the racial imbalance of wealth and power in Latin America is due to genes. I know people like you will also ignore that there’s been a caste system in Latin America for hundreds of years where the Spanish and Portuguese land owners and slavers created societies where they were at the top and where Indians and blacks were kept at the bottom. If you are black or Indian and born in a place like Colombia, your opportunities for better your life are damn near nill. The whites have always hoarded the wealth and power and they are determined to keep it that way. As for Cubans as you mentioned, white Cubans are notoriously racist, way more than white Americans. White Latins are way more racist than white Americans as a general rule. In Cuba, not only do white Cubans get the best jobs in government, they get the best jobs in the lucrative tourist industry. Believe it or not, being a cab driver is one of the best jobs in Cuba. You have doctors that would prefer to drive cabs because it pays so well in that economy. Blacks can’t get jobs driving cabs. I guess you’re going to tell me that it’s because blacks have too low an IQ to drive a cab!

      I suggest you read this article: http://www.miamiherald.com/multimedia/news/afrolatin/part4/index.html

    4. What you say about white Hispanics is interesting. Based on my travels to Latin America, I never noticed any bigotry on their part (okay, perhaps that’s because I didn’t understand Spanish!).

      However, you are right about the fact that they control the wealth. Despite the fact that Mestizos became ideal Mexicans as a result of the Mexican Revolution’s legacy, white Mexicans are still over-represented in television shows, government positions (Vicente Fox, anyone?), and other prestigious positions.

      In Mexico and other Latin American countries, wealthy people are not only full-blooded European, but in many cases they’re not even Spanish. We stayed with an upper class family whose patriarch was part German and Serbian, and another family whose matriarch was part Irish.

      Unfortunately, rather than solve inequality in their own nations, many Latin American countries (mainly Mexico) decide to export their oppressed mestizos to the United States.

    5. Well that’s the interesting thing about Latin America. The racism can be worse, but it’s an entirely different animal from American racism. Latin-American racism works more like traditional African-American colorism. There isn’t some hard ideology of light skinned Latinos against dark skinned Latinos. There’s just a general consensus that it’s better to look whiter and bad to look Amerindian or black, and where you stand in society is based on where you fall on the color continuum. This is especially true in highly mixed countries like Brazil. There’s no such thing as a one drop rule and most Latin whites have some non-white ancestry so they aren’t militant about racial purity like Anglo racists. Also class is as big an issue there as race, so having money or status changes the way someone views your race. An African-American in Brazil will be treated pretty much the same as a white American, since to them you are rich by the very fact that you could afford to come there in the first place. But a poor black Brazilian will be treated worse than either.

      White American travelers often want to downplay their American-ness, but Black American travelers would be well advised to play it up.

    6. Hi tulio.

      My understanding is that Cuba is a strict meritocracy in general. Despite that there is still some racism, it was much, much worse under the pre-revolutionary regime the gusanos in Miami want to bring back. They had Jim Crow with segregation everywhere. It was terrible. The truth is that after the revolution, many of the Whites just took off. Much of the remaining population is Black or mulatto.

      These are Castro’s strongest supporters. Though they don’t live like kings, Castro has given them a basic decent standard of living and most importantly a sense of dignity. This population hates the Miami gusanos and fears they are going to bring back the racist bad old days.

      But it’s a strict meritocracy. You don’t see so many Blacks and mulattos in the top positions probably because their IQ’s are lower and they can’t cut the tests, etc. Cuban education is extremely competitive and if you can’t cut it, you’re gone. Cuba has no US style affirmative action.

      I would imagine that the Miami gusanos are way more racist than the White Cubans remaining in Cuba. That article is pretty rich coming from the gusano Miami Herald. Miami Cubans are one of the most openly racist groups in the US! In fact, once you get them alone, one of their main beefs against Castro was that he “freed the niggers and let them take over.” A lot of those racist Miami Whites lived in big houses.

      They took off, and now when they go back to Cuba to look at their old house, there’s a bunch of Black and mulatto Cubans living there. They are really pissed about that!

    7. As for Cubans as you mentioned, white Cubans are notoriously racist, way more than white Americans. White Latins are way more racist than white Americans as a general rule

      Yes! I agree with this 100%. However, let me tell you something. Here in this town where I live in California, you don’t see much of that racism. Hispanics of all shades mingle quite freely and all hang out together. I think if there is any social dislocation and avoidance at all it is due to class, not race.

      I kept hearing how racist the lighter Mexicans were, but here, you just don’t see it. Sure they have better jobs, but they are very nice to the darker ones who come in as customers. Further, many quite light-skinned Mexicans and Chicanos are either poor or low income. In that case, the light ones just hang out with others of their class.

      I have also seen some pretty dark and Indian-looking Chicanos who have gone to school or gotten jobs and really moved up in society. They now work in offices and wear suits. There’s a lot more social mobility here. Here in the US, I think a lot of the Mexican racial caste system has broken down.

    8. But it’s a strict meritocracy.

      That sounds like Castro propaganda. There are no strict meritocracies anywhere on earth. I have no reason to think one exists in Cuba, especially in was is still by western standards a corrupt Latin American nation. Things like bribing officials are still standard fare as is common the Latin countries.

      You don’t see so many Blacks and mulattos in the top positions probably because their IQ’s are lower and they can’t cut the tests, etc. Cuban education is extremely competitive and if you can’t cut it, you’re gone. Cuba has no US style affirmative action.

      There’s discrimination across the board, even lucrative jobs like tourist service and driving cabs. They don’t take high IQ and these jobs mostly go to white Cubans. So I don’t thing it’s just a matter of IQ. I don’t know what the average IQ of black vs. white Cubans is anyway.

      Just because there is communist government that preaches equality doesn’t mean it will be practiced in reality. Look at Russia. They pounded the notion of equality in there heads for decades. Even set up universities for black Africans to come study socialism. After communism was lifted, we found out those racist attitudes never went anywhere. Blacks, as well as central Asians going to school in Russia basically live in fear of their lives and routinely get beaten or killed by Russian anti-foreign mobs. Governments can’t control people’s attitudes.

  10. The funny thing is that Rhodesian agriculture was typically colonial in that it tended to produce mainly cash crops for export. When sanctions were imposed on Rhodesia, Rodesian farmers shifted to food crops. Rhodesia has often been called the bread basket of Africa, but nobody ever provides statistics. Let’s assume that Rhodesia exported half of its food production in 1980. Well, the population doubled since then, so that alone should account for the end of food exports.
    When you read that only 50,000 farmers are the breadbasket of a whole continent, you should immediately become skeptical. It sounds too good to be true.
    Regards. James

  11. Tulio, I did not say I based my belief on people I met on the bus. These assholes were a catalyst for my doing research about racial differences which, when closely examined by an open mind are undeniable.

    Most riders in Portland are “choice riders”, so they choose to ride. According to Trimet anyway.
    Even when I pick up a bus full of proffesionals downtown, full of whites and asians, there will be but one asshole, a black. But again, I originally wrote this off as “white people’s fault.” The legacy of slavery and poverty created this monster. But a little information gotten outside the negrophiliac mainstream media changed my mind.

    Many blacks are intelligent and kind, I know some and like them very much. But these are the exception. I am not happy about that, but the truth compels me like nothing else.

    Ultimately people believe what they want, but a few reading this may want to believe me!

    Goodnight.

    1. I have no idea what your personal experience has been. I can say that living in this diverse city where most bus riders are black and Hispanic, I have not in my limited experience riding buses seen any incidents whatsoever. Just about everyone walks on, drops their coins in the machine, takes their seat and utters not a peep to anyone the whole time. And I watch this kind of stuff carefully as I’m something of a people watcher. I have a close buddy without a car who takes the bus every day. I will ask him tomorrow if he has noticed differences in racial behavior on public transit.

      Since I’m not you, I can’t dispute what you claim to have experienced, but one thing, there ain’t even that many blacks in Oregon to begin with. If you told me you were a bus driver in New Orleans which is packed with very poor and very ghetto underclass blacks, I wouldn’t even be asking questions. So I have to wonder what the prevalence of your problems with blacks actually is. Number two, studies have shown that whites have a tendency to interpret blacks as behaving more hostile and aggressive than is the reality. So when I hear things like this, I take it with a grain of salt, although I don’t dismiss your experience out of hand.

  12. The earliest comments by Egyptians about Nubians described them as savages. They adopted all they had from Egypt (Just to the North of Nubia.) West Africa had no written language until arab traders brought it there. The BBC trying to confuse people shows their agenda.

    1. They did not describe them as savages. In fact Egypt even had some Nubian pharoahs. Nubia was slightly even older a civilization than Egypt with even more pyramids than Egypt:

      http://www.raceandhistory.com/cgi-bin/forum/webbbs_config.pl/noframes/read/812

      What’s your point about West African written language? Europe had no written language until it was brought there. Do you think that the Roman alphabet wasn’t derived from earlier alphabets that had their origin outside of Europe? There was no indigenous system of writing devised in Europe.

      It’s funny that now you launch into conspiracies about the BBC trying to fool people. Maybe you just don’t like having your worldview of blacks as savages to be challenged.

  13. The last pharoahs were black alright. Get it? The end of Egypt followed black leadership. That’s the first country down the tubes. 🙂

    1. Meh…this is what happens when white nationalist bus drivers pretend to be historians.

      Egypt began it’s decline under Ramesses XI, not the Nubians. The kingdom had fractured, and then the 25th Dynasty, the Nubian kings ruled for about a century. The Nubian kings had actually reunited Egypt, brought stability and restored many of its ancient religious traditions. They had fought a number of battles with the Assyrians and were eventually defeated. The Assyrians themselves were then conquered by the Persians shortly thereafter .

      Saying blacks were responsible for the downfall of Egypt is just WN historical revisionism. Stick to driving buses, dude because you sound like an ignoramus.

    2. what utter nonsense.
      Egypt actually, (not that I am attributing to the fall of Egypt) got lighter over time,
      per the links Phil gathered, they were seemingly original SW Asian/Arab (specifically “Mesoptamian”) in descent, but the Macedonians under Alexander the Great came in and installed the rulers/ruling elite (in the 300s B.C.E.) – it fell in 30 B.C.E. (?)

  14. What’s your profession? Historian no doubt. Otherwise you would not dare comment on history right? History is like economics, sociology, or any other field of study, influenced by the political leanings of its studiers.

    You have not bothered to read my postings, I have stated I am not a white nationalist. This shows me you are not open to new ideas. But this is typical of liberals. I know I was a liberal for years. There has been an effort for decades by the liberal elites who are wholly in control of our media and academia, to boost black’s self esteem. This is well known.

    I’ve learned one thing, I will change my name on future postings. Any personal information given will be used by individuals with weak arguments to personally insult. Thanks for the lesson.

  15. My new name.

    “The most prominent Nubian invaders set up a new kingdom, claiming to be the inheritors of the previous kingdoms, called today the 25th dynasty. This 100-year dynasty saw a number of mixed race rulers from 730 BC to 633 BC, all claiming to be pharaohs and attempting to revive some of the older practices, such as mummification.

    The non-White “Egyptians” were however an illusion – the true White Egyptians had vanished, along with their society, and the Nubian dynasty sputtered out of its own accord. The last pharaoh of this Nubian dynasty, Taharka, whose mixed race ancestry is clear from sculptures, was driven from his throne by invading Assyrians, and it is from this fall of Taharka that historians formally date the fall of Egypt, although in reality the last true Egyptian had disappeared nearly two hundred years previously.”

    “I have brought for thee all countries which are in Nubia, beneath thy feet.”

    “Southern boundary, made in the year 8, under the majesty of the king of Upper and Lower Egypt, Sesostris III, … in order to prevent that any Black should cross it, by water or by land, with a ship, or any herds of the Blacks; except a Black who shall come to do trading in Iken, or with a commission. Every good thing shall be done with them but without allowing a ship of the Blacks to pass by Heh, going down stream, forever.”

    EGYPTIAN RACIAL WRITINGS: THE EIGHTEENTH DYNASTY (1580-1350 BC)

    The inscription of Ahmose reads:

    “Now after his majesty had slain the Asiatics, he ascended the river…to destroy the Nubian Troglodytes; his majesty made a great slaughter among them.”

    http://www.white-history.com/hwr8d.htm

    1. That site is a fucking joke. You really ought to look for more objective sources than a site that unabashedly brands itself as pro-white.

      The Egyptians were clearly not white. They depicted themselves as a mostly copper-complexioned race.

      Here is how Egyptians depicted race in the ancient world:

      http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cb/Egyptian_races.jpg

      From left to right, a Libyan, Nubian, Asiatic(west Asia) and Egyptian. As you can see, white was a color available to them, they did not portray themselves as a white civilization.

    2. Hi PRR. The story about the Egyptians told by White nationalists is apparently a lie.

      Here is how I investigate claims. I consider that to be an “enemy claim,” because it is not something that I want to believe it. But if it’s true, I will believe it. So I go into the argument accepting the WN claim about Egypt and trying to disprove it. In most cases, the enemy claim turns out to be wrong, of course, but in a few cases they are unfortunately right. I do this so I will not be too subjective.

      For instance, if I went into that thinking the WN theory was wrong, and then set out to find evidence for my conclusion, I am operating backwards. People who do theory that way do tend to find the evidence necessary for their foregone conclusions!

      I would recommend that others do theory that way, at least far as theory goes. Maybe not in the rest of life, where nice little lies work just fine.

      The WN theory is just wrong. The great ancient Egyptians were the same as they are today – about 91% Caucasian and 9% Black. I am not sure how they figured that out, but I read in the Journal of Physical Anthropology. Really what that shows is that Egyptians were neither Black nor White in the WN sense. WN’s never accept Egyptians as White, though I think there are some White Egyptians for sure. And someone 9% Black can hardly be called Black.

      What happened was that Egypt had been declining for some time. At some point it reached such a state of decrepitude that they were actually conquered by the Nubians to the South. The Nubian conquest was a result of the decline of Egypt, not a cause of it. Let’s not confuse cause and effect here!

      One thing I think is very interesting about this fact about Egypt is that it puts a dagger to the One Drop Rule. According to the 1 Drop Rule, every little bit of Black in a population causes severe and devastating decline in that population on various civilizational attributes. What Egypt shows is that a 10% Black population can indeed kick ass on all the other races and produce the pinnacle of civilizational achievement on Earth. Well, they could do it then at least. Now? Who knows?

      OTOH, I don’t know about a pure Black population reaching the pinnacles of civilizational height. They didn’t really in the past, and I’m dubious that they can presently. But a little bit of Black in a population is apparently no great shakes and is no death knell.

    3. PR, please be careful when you get information from those WN sites. White-History.com is one of the worst of them all. They’re simply insane. It claims that Whites were here in the Americas first, then they got killed off by the Amerindians, and therefore this continent is ours, not the Amerindians. I think they also believe some crazy stuff about New Zealand being White before the Maoris got there, once again so it’s White land, not Maori land.

      If you are around these WN’s long enough, you will find that most of them exalt European colonialism. At best they apologize for it, at worst they out and out think it was great.

  16. Portland Bus Driver, I am in no way a self-hating, radical anti-racist who buys into an Afrocentric view of history.

    At the same time, you come dangerously close to espousing essentialism. You seem to think that blacks are in the conditions they are now because of some genetic predisposition to deviance. What you have to keep in mind is that history is cyclical, not linear. Throughout much of history, Western Europe was behind Africa. Now, there were various reasons for this (few natural resources, poor climate for agriculture, invasions, etc). Still, people could easily have said “look at those Europeans. They must be innately inferior, seeing as how they’re poor and uneducated,” and they would have been wrong.

    About Egypt, I really don’t have a stake in the ancient Egyptian race controversy. I think it’s silly to fight over the ambiguous racial identity of an ancient civilization.

    At the same time, I seriously doubt Egypt was black, as Afrocentrists make it out to be. Since Egypt was close to Nubia, of course there were blacks in Egypt. However, prominent Egyptologist Zahi Hawass asserts that the depiction of ancient Egypt as black has no truth to it. The evidence Afrocentrists use is also questionable (racial interpretations of quotes by ancient Greeks and Romans, certain drawings, etc).

    However, they were hardly white. Afrocentrists and Eurocentrists both need to lay off of Egypt.

    I say all of this as a proud white advocate. I just think you need to temper some of your views.

  17. Posting that link opened up the arguments about Egypt being “white.” Well Ramses having Red hair is interesting, I agree they were a Mediterranean “Caucasian”, probably bronze skinned. And yes, having an argument about it is pointless.

    I don’t take that site as the end all to the evidence either. But those quotes I’ve seen elsewhere, and support my earlier point about Egyptian/Nubian relations. I believe the Nubian eventually mixed with the Caucasians living there, creating the aforementioned racial admixture.

    Which brings me to something I do believe: Races as starkly different as Caucasian and black never become colorblind without massive strife and destruction. Why are they not 50/50? Well, a point came when they decided not to let any more blacks in I would guess. The ones that were there were absorbed. No, that will not destroy a country. Discovering whats going on in South Africa and my own personal experience has made me believe that deep down, though they will not openly admit it, most blacks HATE whites, and they want revenge. I truly believe that, I’m sure we’ll just have to disagree on that. Which brings me to what I believe should happen here:

    1) Stop all immigration except for highly qualified and productive people. (Guess who most of them will be?) We could set up criteria for this.

    2) Encourage productive people here to have more children through tax credits, meaning on what you would or did pay, not cash from the IRS you never paid, yes that’s how it works now I know personally. A lot less welfare, or real criminal punishment for welfare fraud. (Some people need help, I’m not opposed to that.)

    3) End all affirmative action programs or any anti-white incentives.

    I then believe the rest would work itself out. Less non productive welfare babies would be born. Blacks would be assimilated bringing down our IQ, but more Asians would come in bringing it up. Also some Europeans escaping the North African Horde growing there would come on over. White people could stick around for another couple hundred years, after that who gives a damn huh?

    See, no White Nationalism, just some race realism nationalism, and yes I favor whites. So what? This is the most natural thing to do. Every other people mostly do the same damn thing.

    PS. Tulio, you seem like you are full of rage and positive you’re right. You know who that reminds me of? HITLER!

    1. I’m a white advocate as well, and I agree with a decent amount of your beliefs. However, with respect, you need to temper your views.

      The ancient Egyptians were an ancient people and certainly weren’t depicted as white. To claim ancient Egypt as a Caucasoid civilization hurts your cause, and calls your credibility into question.

      Also, I find your comparison of Tulio to Hitler a bit absurd. We may not agree on everything, but I’ve always regarded Tulio as civil and reasonable.

  18. Also, that post, from: my new name, all the way to the link is coppy and pasted from their site. I was not claiming Egyptians were blond haired blue eyed, though I can see it may have looked that way.

  19. okay, Humorous tone of voice lost on postings, got ot remember that:) It is absurd , Iwas joking.

    And yes they were caucasian, arabs are caucasian. Robert Lindsay even said 91% caucasian. That is the caucasian I mean, not like Pamela Anderson Caucasian.

  20. And yes they were caucasian, arabs are caucasian. Robert Lindsay even said 91% caucasian. That is the caucasian I mean, not like Pamela Anderson Caucasian.

    How do you know that the ancient Egyptians were 90% Caucasoid? I know that the Caucasoid race features various different groups, including Iranians, Pashtun, and certain Indians, and that Caucasians are not all Nordic. Still, where’s your evidence for this? Believe me, I have no sympathies for Afrocentrists, but to claim Egypt as Caucasian requires great evidence.

    1. That’s from an article I read back around 1994 in the American Journal of Physical Anthropology. They found that racially, the modern Egyptians and the ancient Egyptians are the same. ~91% Caucasian, 9% Black. How they figured out the ancient Egyptians, I am not sure. Maybe DNA from mummies.

      If a 91% Caucasian civilization is a Caucasian civilization, then Egypt was a Caucasian civilization. But most WN’s don’t accept Egyptians as White.

      There seems to be no evidence at all for the notion that ancient Egypt was Caucasian, then they let the Blacks in, then mass interbreeding, then decline. Simply not the case.

      Anyway, no one knows what the IQ’s of Nubian Blacks or Egyptian Caucasians were back on those days. There’s no reason to think that IQ’s of populations have been flat for centuries or millenia. This is a race realist fallacy. Regional IQ’s may have undergone dramatic changes in just the last 200 years or so for all we know.

      As an example, the largest heads (largest brains) of any modern human were found in a race called the Strandwoekers. They lived on the beaches of Namibia about 2-3,000 years ago. There is contradictory evidence about whether or not they survived into the modern era. With the biggest brains of all humans on Earth at the time, I doubt they were morons.

      It’s very difficult to extrapolate modern races with their ancient analogues to try to find parallels. I would suggest not doing so.

      I would also argue against equating African and Caribbean Blacks with US and UK Blacks. Western Blacks have dramatically higher IQ’s, 15 points higher than Caribbeans and 20 points higher than Africans. That alone almost makes them a separate race altogether from the other Blacks. This is the argument that US Blacks are “Bantus,” and I really dislike it. On IQ scores alone, they most certainly are not Bantus.

  21. This has been discovered through DNA testing.

    But there were fair skinned red haired Egyptians, I’m actually surprised you never heard of such a thing. Look up Ramses II. The Nazis used these white mummies to further their propaganda. I actually saw a documentary on PBS I think. Google: Images of Ramses II. You may find some new information my friend!

    1. Egyptians are basically Berbers. No one ever calls them that, because they don’t speak a Berber language, but that’s what they are. They have a bit less Black in them than your average Berber. Berbers are a Caucasian people with a bit of Black in them – about 13%.

      There are fair skinned and fair haired Berbers all across North Africa.

      I think the Black genes go back very far. About 17,000 years ago, Arab Caucasians (who had genes like Arabs and looked like Arabs) came down from Europe and conquered North Africa, pushing the Blacks down a bit deeper into the Sahel. Apparently they mixed quite a bit with them at the time too. I guess there was some mixing afterward, but not a ton of it.

      Before 12,000 YBP, Europeans were basically Arabs. They looked like Arabs and had genes that look like Arabic genes. WN’s get really pissed off when you say that!

      So I like to bring it up to them all the time. 😉

    2. There are Caucasian populations with red hair all over much of the world wherever you find Caucasian people. I think there are even some in the west of China. Red hair arose in Finland 9,000 YBP, and then somehow spread through much of the Caucasian world.

    3. The red haired Egyptians have red hair for the most part because of dying with henna. The Egyptians hated and feared aging and the resulting grey hair, so they dyed their grey hair with henna as they aged. This turned the hair red. You still see a lot of folks dying hair with henna over in say Afghanistan.

  22. Just remember this: this history (Or herstory to be exact), is all biased. The victors tell the story right? Who are the victors? Look who is president. What political leaning dominates at our universities? Look at the nonstop juggernaut of propaganda spewed forth from local and national media downplaying black on white crime and going into hysterics about the reverse.

    If we just received our PHD in history in Germany in 1939 we would be certain Egypt was white. (I know, bringing up the nazis to prove a point is soooo cliche’, can’t help it.)

    My brother is a highly intelligent educated professional, and he believes we are half alien, and he believes in ghosts, I shit you not. We believe what we want ultimately. I like whitey, I believe whitey dammit!

    http://guywhite.wordpress.com/2009/01/08/egyptian-mummies-with-blond-brown-and-red-hair/

  23. Hey Robert, I wanted to reply to Tulio on race in Latin America, but I hit the wrong reply button. Is there a way to fix that?

  24. Robert: Ramses II actually had Red hair, this was proven by examining his hair follicles in 1985. The scientific work was published in French titled: “La Momie de Ramses II Contribution Scientifique a l’Egyptologie” (1985). He did dye his hair with Henna, but only to match his younger original red hair. This study was done in part to dispute claims Ramses II was black.

    Tulio: Goodwins law cracked me up, thanks.

    ” There’s no reason to think that IQ’s of populations have been flat for centuries or millenia. This is a race realist fallacy. Regional IQ’s may have undergone dramatic changes in just the last 200 years or so for all we know.”

    Well, originally racial egalitarians argued evolution moves so painstakingly slow that in the 50,000 years blacks were seperated from whites, not much change could have occurred. So which is it? Things change in 200 years or barely change in 50,000?

  25. Now, the correlation between political influence and success, based on the fact that the president has a power z score of +5, and the average President has an IQ +2 SDs, is 0.4 (all backed up by pumpkinperson).

    But that might not be the case in Africa, I mean…
    these countries would have, depending on who you believe leaders with IQs of less than 97 or less than 106 (since the Z-score is slightly lower due to less people).

    Think of your average American (IQ 98) running a country! Or you’re average Asian-American small businessperson like Jason talks about. (IQ about Asian average of 106). That’s nuts!

    I suspect politiking and other anarchy are better selectors for IQ, and African leaders are slightly smarter than what would be expected.

    i.e.
    Robert Mugabe, Charles Taylor, etc.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Taylor_(Liberian_politician)

    Plus, the amount that get University educated are small, which would hence mean they would have to have a higher z-score than that of what’s going on in the U.S.

  26. Possibly dumb people being the people and the overlords being smart explains why democracy doesn’t work in the 3rd world. But of course, that statement is racist.

    However, IQ can be brought up, but feudal 3rd world governments won’t invest in education.

    1. Ironically though, even with an educated population, the US is not a democracy because elected officials depend on the support of business to fund campaigns.

    2. I don’t think that has much to do with it really. But some 3rd World countries are doing democracy pretty well these days. I think a lot of Africa is holding regular elections. In Latin America, the problem is the White elites have an absolute hatred of democracy and democratic rule. They do see themselves better than the masses. But you have places like Malaysia, Philippines and Indonesia where the high IQ Chinese do not rule at all over the Malay types; instead the Malay types rule the state and there is a lot of anti-Chinese discrimination. Same thing now in South Africa where low IQ Blacks rule high IQ Whites and there is a lot of discrimination against Whites. So high IQ people don’t always rule over low IQ people.

    3. Well one, no, that’s not racist. Blunt and should be given more context, but not racist.

      While education would support some intellectual fraction deprived, it won’t raise the iq but could create a social difference.

  27. Wonder how Turkey would function under a proper Democracy. Dictator Erdogan has already sacked hundreds of judges under convenient pretext, after a coup he most likely planned. Last remnants of Turkish democracy are going out of the window. Three branches of goverment, checks and balances and secular part of society now have to bow down to a single madman for whom nothing is sacred.

    1. It’s not that they are incapable of Democracy, it’s that literally every country that borders them, except perhaps Azberjian, has gone to complete and utter shit.

      The Turks may be low IQ, or said to be low IQ based on wealth (as Lynn extrapolated :/), but with the exception of some Asian blood (smarter) they should be even Whiter than Syrians.

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