The “Hugo Chavez Caused a Violent Crime Wave” Lie

tulio repeats an odd propaganda claim from the lying MSM about Hugo Chavez’ Venezuela:

If things are getting better under Chavez, explain why the murder rate quadrupled under his era!

Caracas is now the most dangerous city in South America. This happened under Chavez. People used to flee the crime from Columbia and go to Venezuela. Now it’s the other way around. Only Ciudad Juarez in Mexico is more violent in Latin America.

There’s long been an extremely high crime and violent crime rate in Venezuela for unknown reasons. Lots of poverty, extremes of wealth and lots of the population have Black in them. There was terrible crime and violent crime before Chavez, and it’s still bad now.

The opposition has never been able to state a theory on how Chavez caused this crime wave! Their theory is that Chavez helped the poor, and this made them hate rich people even more, and now they are waging some crime war against the rich. But I think almost all that crime is happening in the poorer areas.

Thing is, it’s probably being dealt with a lot more under Chavez. You see, before, 80% of the population lived in these horrible slums, and the elite just didn’t give two flying fucks what went down in those slums. They could all rape and slaughter each other for all they cared, as long as the poor did not prey on the rich. So the elite just shrugged their shoulders at all of the violent and property crime and did nothing about it. I imagine that Chavez is at least trying to stop it.

Once again, how can you blame a President for crime? I mean, there are criminals, they do bad things, how is the government making the criminals commit crimes? I don’t get it.

Actually, what you said about people fleeing is not true. Hundreds of thousands of Colombians have fled Colombia for Venezuela. As violent as Venezuela is, Colombia is way worse. Further, almost all of these Colombians say they are much better off in every way in Venezuela than they were in Colombia. The only Venezuelans taking off for Colombians are the moneyed classes.

You gotta stop reading the MSM. Just about every story they write about Chavez is a lie.

And if Chavez is an evil failure for having lots of crime, what does that say about Africa? About the US’ buddies, Mexico and Colombia? About the Caribbean? About Papua New Guinea? About Russia? About South Africa? About Detroit, Oakland, Kansas City and New Orleans?

Are you sure, that you, tulio, a Black man, want to head down this violent crime = failure road? I mean, high Black violent crime is the usual winning card of the White racists’ “niggers destroy civilization” deck of cards.

Update: I don’t have time to get into the whole “Chavez and crime,” thing, but this article is a good start. Truth is, almost all of the crime is happening in the poorer barrios. It’s always been concentrated there, and the moneyed classes never gave a fuck before. All of a sudden, now that they can use it as a weapon against Chavez, the moneyed classes suddenly have a profound and deep caring for the barrio masses who suffer this crime wave? Think about it. Do you think they suddenly started worrying about barrio crime victims when Chavez showed up, or is it just a nice club to beat Hugo over the head with?

Looking over the statistics further, the 4X increase appears to be false, but homicide has risen, maybe from 50-100%. Call it 75%. That’s a lot, but it’s not 300%! Looking deeper, it appears that crime as a whole has been flat (the % of Venezuelans claiming to be crime victims has been flat for a decade), and robbery has either been flat or declined, homicide itself has gone up.

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11 thoughts on “The “Hugo Chavez Caused a Violent Crime Wave” Lie”

  1. Come on, that’s a cheap shot…the race issue is irrelevant here, because the demographics were the same prior to Chavez. It’s not like the black population quadrupled in that decade, and according to you, the poor are now economically better off. You said that the poor have been greatly helped by Chavez, but why would that cause murder rates to skyrocket if he were improving things? You make it sound as if the burden of proof is on me to prove that’s the fault of Chavez policies, but I think the burden of proof is on those that claim Chavez is doing a good job. I mean, can you IMAGINE what people would be saying if murder rates here went up by a factor of 4 under Obama’s watch?

    You say everything the MSM says about him is a lie. I don’t have any doubt that American media is biased against him, but I think the murder rate is pretty straight-forward. I don’t see how that could be spun. People are now getting murdered at 4x the rate they were before. How can anyone make that up? I’m sure the numbers come from Venezuela’s own police stats.

    1. It’s a lie. The murder rate didn’t go up by 300%. It went up by about 75%.

      And the rest of the crime rate was flat, including armed robbery. No one knows what’s going on. Drugs have been flooding into Venezuela in the worst way since the early 1990’s. Most people say that the homicide rate is due to drugs. There are also lots of paramilitaries over on the Colombian border now and the Colombian conflict is spilling into Venezuela. The whole continent is violent. Latinos are violent, criminal and homicidal people.

      If crime is the worst thing on Earth, why don’t Uribe in Colombia, all the governments in Africa and the Caribbean, the rightwing government in El Salvador, the government in Papua New Guinea, or the rightwing government in Mexico all need to go too?

      No answer to that. See, the MSM doesn’t care about insane, out of control crime rates in those places because they don’t have progressive governments. Get it?

      tulio, you’re a political amateur. I dunno man. Stick to race or something where you’re more coherent. Your politics and economics don’t make any sense at all.

      You have not answered a few things: How did Hugo Chavez or his policies somehow cause this homicide spree? How is the opposition (the moneyed classes) going to stop this homicide spree?

    2. It’s a lie. The murder rate didn’t go up by 300%. It went up by about 75%.

      If it’s a lie then show me a source proving it. Simply saying so is not sufficient proof. From the W-post article, “The Interior Ministry, which last gave official crime statistics in 2004, declined comment on the OVV’s new figures.

      Briceno, a criminology professor at the Central University of Venezuela and at the Sorbonne in Paris, blamed a weak judicial system and ineffective and corrupt policing in Venezuela, where he said 91 percent of crimes go unsolved.

      He collates his figures from police sources and media reports. When Chavez came to power in 1999 there were 4,550 homicides whereas in 2009 there were 16,047, the OVV said.”

      First off, interesting that the government hasn’t offered up official crime stats in six years. Six years!! What does that tell you right there? Either gross incompetence or willful silencing of the numbers for propaganda purposes, or probably both. And the data about Venezuela’s murder rate isn’t coming from US MSM(and it’s interesting how some assume because it’s mainstream US it’s automatically wrong), it’s coming from an NGO in Venezuela. Now please find us a source that doesn’t come from a died-in-the-wool Chavista that shows that Venezuelas murder rate hasn’t gone from 4,550 in 1999 to 16,047 in 2009.

      And the rest of the crime rate was flat, including armed robbery.

      Source of info? I assume you also realize that crime stats in Latin America are notoriously unreliable except for murder which is hard not to report. The vast majority of Latin American crime goes unreported. Nobody bothers to go to the police in Brazil if they’ve been mugged. The police will laugh and tell you they have more important things to worry about.

      No one knows what’s going on.

      No, we do know what’s going on. A corrupt and inefficient policing system where 91% of crimes go unsolved. Of course crime is high when criminals know they have a 9 in 10 chance of getting away with it. Same reason why there’s looting during riots and other disasters where the police are rendered ineffective.

      Drugs have been flooding into Venezuela in the worst way since the early 1990’s. Most people say that the homicide rate is due to drugs. There are also lots of paramilitaries over on the Colombian border now and the Colombian conflict is spilling into Venezuela. The whole continent is violent. Latinos are violent, criminal and homicidal people.

      Columbia’s crime has fallen. So much so that the country once again has a thriving tourist industry. I don’t think it has anything to do with Columbia spilling into Venezuela. Columbia is moving in the right direction. Your second part about Latinos is way overgeneralizing. Bolivia, has the 2nd lowest murder rate in Latin America(which is proof that race isn’t the cause of crime in Latin America), only 2nd the Chile, both of which have rates lower than the US. Uruguay is low as well. Costa Rica isn’t too bad. Argentina is about on par with us. Even Mexico isn’t at bad as we might think, about 10 murders/100,000 which is twice US levels, but that’s a hell of a lot lower than Venezuela’s 54 murders/100,000.

      <blockquote?If crime is the worst thing on Earth, why don’t Uribe in Colombia, all the governments in Africa and the Caribbean, the rightwing government in El Salvador, the government in Papua New Guinea, or the rightwing government in Mexico all need to go too?

      I’m no fan of any of these corrupt governments, but I’m not here in saying how great they are and how much progress is coming from them. I’m only bringing up the soaring murder rate in Venezuela as a response to your claim Chavez is improving the lives of the poor. It makes it a tough case to make if they’re running around killing each other at 4x the rate that they were prior to his presidency. I would think that when people’s economic situation improves, crime should drop. For a dramatic contrast, crime rates in the U.S. are still falling, even with the worse economy since the Great Depression! L.A. just posted it’s lowest crime rate in 50 years! http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE60613K20100107

      A propos, white nationalists that are always screaming about crime in the U.S. seem to ignore that it’s gone down dramatically and has been since the early 90s. But I digress.

      No answer to that. See, the MSM doesn’t care about insane, out of control crime rates in those places because they don’t have progressive governments. Get it?

      Huh? The MSM constantly reports about the crime in Mexico, especially regarding the drug cartels and border city wars. Most Americans are scared to even go down there right now. I don’t know what you’re talking about.

      You have not answered a few things: How did Hugo Chavez or his policies somehow cause this homicide spree? How is the opposition (the moneyed classes) going to stop this homicide spree?

      The fish rots from the head down. When 91% of crimes go unpunished due to police corruption and inefficiency, that is the fault of government. Given that he lives right there in Caracas, and reads the reports, it’s not news to him that Caracas has become a bloodbath of crime in the last decade. I don’t see him doing anything about it then blaming the problems on conspiracy from the opposition.

    3. tulio, there is a long article about Chavez and crime linked at the end of the piece now under update. That’s where the 75% figure comes in. It’s always been the case that the cops are corrupt and the vast majority of the crimes go unsolved. It was like that before; it’s like that under Chavez. Nothing new there, but he is really trying to change things by paying cops more, educating them about human rights and whatnot, etc.

      He’s increased the number of police, spent more money on their equipment, etc. Chavez knows that the cops are hated and corrupt and he is trying to get it so that they are liked by the people – the cop on a beat thing.

      This is a long term problem that this elite rats never cared two shits about before Chavez. They’re lying. Can’t you see that, man? Are you blind? Dude, this is ALL the opposition has left: CRIME. That’s it. This is why Chavez needs to go and be replaced by a rightwinger: *crime.*

      Ask these same elites if *crime* is also why the Mexican, Colombian, Salvadoran and Caribbean rightwing governments need to be replaced with a leftwing government due to *crime*. See how they answer. It’s a lie! How is a rightwing government going to reduce crime, anyway? What are they going to do. It’s all in the barrios, and they don’t give two fucks about those places anyway.

      Also under some of the previous Presidents, you almost had a police state with extreme police abuse of the population. That might lower the crime rate a bit.

      It’s clear though that a lot of the cops are just going to have to go. He *is* doing something about. He’s been spending a lot more money on law enforcement. A LOT more.

      tulio, the MSM does not argue that the rightwing government in Mexico needs to be replaced by leftwing government due to *crime*. Anyway, if you can read, you would have noticed that the “crime wave” is almost all due to a government offensive against the drug cartels. You know, the state cracking down on crime?

      The cartels have responded with a war against the state. Similar problem in Mexico – the cops are the criminals, they’re all corrupt, most crimes go unsolved, etc etc. It’s like that under a rightwing regime, it will be like that under a leftwing regime. These are systemic and frankly cultural issues down there.

      “If crime is the worst thing on Earth, why don’t Uribe in Colombia, all the governments in Africa and the Caribbean, the rightwing government in El Salvador, the government in Papua New Guinea, or the rightwing government in Mexico all need to go too?”

      I’m no fan of any of these corrupt governments, but I’m not here in saying how great they are and how much progress is coming from them

      That’s because none of them are doing *shit* for their people, that’s why, otherwise I’d be pointing it out. You should be fans of them, that’s what you seem to like in a government, a state that does nothing and helps only the upper classes.

      Chavez *has* done tremendous progress for the vast majority down there. Crime (actually homicide) is a negative, but it’s pretty much overweighed by all the good stuff he’s done, and the Opposition won’t do anything about crime anyway. They never have in the past, why would they now? Look man, he’s helped so many of the poorer people down there, that’s why they keep re-electing him year after year, election after election. No one is forcing people to vote for him.

      People’s economic situation *has* improved, dramatically. And most other crime has been flat. For instance, armed robbery has been flat. And crime period has been flat. The % of Venezuelans who say they have been crime victims has been flat for a decade at ~50%. Yes, *homicide* has gone up, but no one really knows why.

      The reason US crime rates are falling is because we locking up every other young person, particularly every other Black young person. Is that what you want, tulio? What? Half of young Black men are incarcerated, on probation or on parole?

      Forget it, tulio. The entire region as a whole has horrible crime, in particular violent crime, robbery, rape and kidnapping. Some of those rates are higher than Africa. And guess what, tulio? The rates are highest of all in countries that have lots of Blacks or a lot of Black genes in the populations.

      54 murders per 100,000, yes. But guess what, tulio? It was 39 per 100,000 before Chavez. Yep. It’s a long term problem.

      There was a 90% unsolved rate (or probably even worse) before Chavez. How is that his fault.

      They never collected crime stats before, and they’re not doing a good job of it now either. People hate the cops, say that the cops are the criminals, they won’t cooperate with the cops.

      You diss the crime stats and say that they are unreliable, but we do have surveys. Surveys show that ~50% of the population reported being crime victims (in the previous year?) before Chavez and it’s ~50% after Chavez. It’s *flat*.

    4. tulio, there is a long article about Chavez and crime linked at the end of the piece now under update. That’s where the 75% figure comes in.

      Meh. Okay, so I looked at it and it reads like one bit piece of pro-Chavez spin. He sites a “survey” that says crime victims haven’t increased, yet doesn’t make any reference to where this survey came from. Who funded it, what crimes were included in the survey, what their distribution was, anything about the sample size, nothing. Entirely useless. A survey is probably the last thing you want to use for crime data because it’s so easy to cook the numbers any way you want depending on how you ask questions. And crimes like rape are extremely unreported in Latin America because of the shame associated with it. However, body counts don’t lie. Murder rates don’t usually go up without other types of crime going up as well.
      .

      This is a long term problem that this elite rats never cared two shits about before Chavez. They’re lying. Can’t you see that, man? Are you blind? Dude, this is ALL the opposition has left: CRIME. That’s it. This is why Chavez needs to go and be replaced by a rightwinger: *crime.*

      Crime is what Venezuelans consider the number one problem in their country, so why shouldn’t it be relevent to Chavez’s success. And once again, if crime skyrocketed like that under Obama would you be giving him a pass? And it’s not only crime that’s a problem. Venezuela now has not only the highest crime rate, but the highest inflation rate in S. America: http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2010-01/08/content_12776131.htm
      Now if you want to talk about something that hurts the poor, it’s inflation. Whatever gains they may make in wages will be quickly wiped out when you’re running at 25% inflation.

      Ask these same elites if *crime* is also why the Mexican, Colombian, Salvadoran and Caribbean rightwing governments need to be replaced with a leftwing government due to *crime*. See how they answer. It’s a lie! How is a rightwing government going to reduce crime, anyway? What are they going to do. It’s all in the barrios, and they don’t give two fucks about those places anyway.

      I’m not asking to replace anyone’s government. I’ll leave that up to them to decide for themselves. Personally, I can’t stand Chavez for a number of reasons, mostly because of his militant far-left rhetoric, paranoia and being just a plain asshole like he did when the King of Spain even had to tell his ass to shut up at that conference in Chile. Yeah I don’t like the guy, you have that right. That doesn’t mean I support extreme people on the right either. I tend to most like pragmatic center left leaders. Like Lula da Silva. This angry, militant, ideology-fueled neo-Bolivarianism I see coming out of Venezuela and Bolivia definitely rubs me the wrong way.

      Chavez *has* done tremendous progress for the vast majority down there. Crime (actually homicide) is a negative, but it’s pretty much overweighed by all the good stuff he’s done, and the Opposition won’t do anything about crime anyway. They never have in the past, why would they now? Look man, he’s helped so many of the poorer people down there, that’s why they keep re-electing him year after year, election after election. No one is forcing people to vote for him.

      Ultimately It’s the Venezuelans that can decide what Chavez is done for them. I’m not the one that has to live in that hellhole.

      The reason US crime rates are falling is because we locking up every other young person, particularly every other Black young person. Is that what you want, tulio? What? Half of young Black men are incarcerated, on probation or on parole?

      Unless you are implying that 50% of black men are criminals I don’t think we have to worry about “half” of black men going to jail.

      Forget it, tulio. The entire region as a whole has horrible crime, in particular violent crime, robbery, rape and kidnapping. Some of those rates are higher than Africa. And guess what, tulio? The rates are highest of all in countries that have lots of Blacks or a lot of Black genes in the populations.

      Whatever…Mexico has almost no blacks and it has a twice the murder rate of the US. El Salvador has virtually no blacks and it’s the worst in Latin America. Paraguay has virtually no blacks and it is worse than Mexico. Ecuador is only 3% black it’s murder rate is twice as high as Mexico. Guatemala has fewer blacks than Uruguay it’s murder rate is damn near as high as El Salvador’s.

      If it were all a matter of race, why would Haiti’s murder rate be 11.5/100,000 while the Latin American average is 25/100,000? Haiti’s murder rate is less than many Latin American countries with no blacks in them. Bermuda is a bit more than half black yet has a murder rate lower than S. Korea. Barbados is only a little bit higher than the U.S. and it’s almost all black. The data is all over the place. The presence or absence of black people in a country doesn’t determine much of anything. The safest country in Latin America has no blacks and the most dangerous country in Latin America has no blacks. And all black Haiti is much safer than the Latin American average. So what does all this tell you? It’s probably much racial ado over nothing.

      ps – I pulled my stats from here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

  2. Those greedy capitalists will never stop their lies. They are so full of hatred for Chavez because he is a man. Capitalist adults are children in old bodies, they are immature… they are not men and women and so when they have sight of a real man or real woman they hate that person. Chavez is a man and that is why the USA imperialistic government is spreading lies about him.

    1. Yeah, crime hasn’t really gone up at all Patrick. The % of people who say they were crime victims in the previous year was ~50% before Chavez and it’s ~50% now. Armed robbery is flat too, same before as it is now.

      However, homicide has gone up by about 75% (not 4 times). No one really knows why. Most of the homicide occurs in the barrios, like it always has, and most of it is related to drugs in some way. Drugs started coming into Venezuela 15 years ago and they are there in a big way now.

      Also, there is a lot of violence over on the Colombian border with a lot of Colombian paramilitary death squads moving into Venezuela because the opposition governor of Zulia state supports them. There are also probably a lot of FARC guerrillas over there too. The death squads deal heavily in cocaine around the border region and there’s been a lot of violence in that area.

  3. Well there is an increase in homicides all throughout Latin America and not just Venezuela so I doubt that can be attributed to Chavez.

    http://justf.org/blog/2009/10/22/violent-crime-increases-throughout-latin-america

    It’s related to the illegal drug industry most likely. My guess is the illegal drug industry has a lot to do with the USA pressuring Latin America to adopt prohibition and probably has a lot to do with capitalist trade policies disenfranchizing the working people. Hugo Chavez is fighting against the capitalists.

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