In the comments section, White Preservation, who is a White separatist, states:
Do note though that in all countries that are very multiracial/multiethnic (USA, Brazil, India, etc) race and ethnicity often correlates quite closely with class-status, with the lower classes of multiracial/multiethnic nations always being of a ‘darker’ racial/ethnic heritage.
Thus, if those chaotic multiracial nations were calmly dissolved and the races then re-separated and re-organized again as best they could manage, then the very troublesome and explosive class/race correlation could largely be done away with and humanity would certainly be better for it.
There are some serious problems with this analysis. Much less so for the US, but the problems in India and Brazil are so severe as to utterly preclude any kind of racial separatism. Why? There are hardly any “races” to separate anymore.
Not necessarily so true in India. The very intelligent and cultured Brahmins of South India are often much darker than the much less intelligent and very backwards low castes of North India. It’s not so simple. Besides, it makes no sense to divide India into two races, Light North Indians and Dark South Indians. It’s just ridiculous.
The place is a totally chaotic racial/ethnic mishmash, with darker folks also in the north, lighter folks also in the south, and people with all sorts of mixed features of both. It would just be insane to try to separate out any kind of real races out of the mix, and anyway, a lot of darker folks would align more with lighter and a lot of lighter folks would align more with darker, due to caste, intelligence, class and cultural variables.
Intelligence is more along caste lines than along racial lines. The Brahmins are smarter than the others.
Further, there is no support whatsoever in Brazil for racial separatism. There are a few Whites down south who advocate this, but honestly, they just have no support at all. And they have been squawking about this forever.
Even in Brazil, it is going to be very difficult to tease out any kind of real races. Sure, down South, you often have folks that are pretty White, but I have seen genetic tests done down there that show that even a lot of Southern Brazilian Whites have lots of Indian and Black in them.
In most of Brazil, all “White” means is at least somewhat lighter than others. There are Black people, true, but most of the population is just some unholy Godawful genetic mystery casserole such that “racial separation” makes no sense because there are hardly any races to separate out anymore.
It’s true that in the US, there is still a White population of 65% or so that looks White and tends to have a White culture, but Hispanics are a real problem. What about White Hispanics? Would they be able to live in the White state? And at what point do you consider a White Hispanic to still be White, and at what point do you consider them to no longer be White?
The US isn’t all that mixed in yet, so separation is still doable (other than it has almost 0% support) but as we get more and more racially jumbled up, the racial separatism project gets progressively more and more insane as you can hardly figure out what race anyone is anymore.
34 thoughts on “Racial Separatism in Brazil, India and the US”
The solution is to just let people sort themselves out, with private organizations/businesses, housing/apartment complexes, free to discriminate as they want.
And ironically, the point of racial separatism is to prevent a scenario, wherein the races would be too difficult to distinguish and separate.
Mixing has been going on in Brazil, Mexico and the rest of Latin America for hundreds of years and none of those countries are ‘one race.’
In the UK, the lighter Pakistanis/Bangladeshis have far more problems than the darker Indians. Possibly because they tend to come from illiterate villages. Also, they are notoriously inbred, as a result of repeated cousin-marriage. It’s a practice which they continue in the UK… http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/newsnight/4442010.stm
Having said that, the idea of lighter-skin being better is deeply embedded in many cultures… see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ríg_(Norse_god) … and it’s fair to investigate why that is.
There are many cultures (though most unknown – for obvious reasons- to general White society) that believe “the darker you are, the better you are” as well as “the darker a woman is, the more beautiful she is.”
I learned this in Anthropology. The one about “dark beauty” being superior is actually written into some religious texts in Persian, Hindu and many South East Asian cultures.
“I learned this in Anthropology.”
Yeah, Dr. Steinberg really was a great anthropology prof wasn’t he! Taught ya a lot, didn’t he?
Actually, we only know of one society that thought that darker was better. The Tasmanian Aborigines. They are now basically extinct. A lot of African are indifferent to color, though.
I don’t know about Persians, but Hindus (Indians) and SE Asians are pretty notorious for being pro-light skinned. This is almost always a preference for light-skinned women. Vietnamese for sure want their women lighter. It’s not known why. Some say that it’s class. If your wife is light, it means you did not have to work. But the preference is there. Vietnamese look down on Khmer in part because they are darker.
In India, for sure there is a preference for lighter, but only in women, not in men. It’s been going on forever. No one really knows what this is all about. It appears that males may desire lighter females, since in most ethnic groups, females are lighter than males. This suggests selection pressure.
I do not know about beauty, but in Brazil and Egypt, mulattos in Brazil and Black or part-Black women (usually part Black) are desired for sex over Whiter women. OTOH, in Brazil, mulattas are also much preferred over pure Black women. In Miami at the moment, a brown-skinned Latina is the preferred sex object. They are winning all the beauty contests and White women are losing.
Why do some racists scoff at anthropology?
Do they think that scientific data about genes is all you need to know about humankind?
“…Why do some racists scoff at anthropology?…”
Because anthropology was taken over by the Jews. They say there is no race even though we know there is. They’ve ruined the whole field and wasted decades worth of research with nonsense.
‘In Miami at the moment, a brown-skinned Latina is the preferred sex object. They are winning all the beauty contests and White women are losing.’
Brown isn’t the same as tan. I bet most of those ‘latinas’ are white Hispanics with a tan.
Ger – No, I don’t think it’s anything to do with skin colour; more to do with the Pakistanis being muslims and the Indians being mostly Hindus. The Hindus mix well; Hindu women go out with white guys and there’s a lot of intermarriage, much like jews, whereas the muslims definitely don’t approve of marrying out or even dating out. The same is true, if not so extreme, for Catholics, especially Irish ones – they also are notoriously inbred, and have a penchant for incest (which they don’t like to talk about).
You are going to need to explain how you are going to accomplish any kind of voluntary White separatism in any part of the US, much less the majority of the US. For instance, once you delineate the White separatist zone, what are you going to do with the non-Whites living there?
There is a proposal for a Northwest Homeland for Whites encompassing Washington, Idaho and Oregon. Ok, fine, but there are 3 million non-Whites living there. What are you going to do about them? This is the whole problem with all of this insane White separatist schemes. Until you show us how you are going to deal with this, the whole plan is just a gigantic joke.
It’s clearly not possible for India to separate at all. There are no races to separate out. There is no such thing as a White North Indian Race and a Dark South Indian Dravidian Race, really. There are hundreds of millions of people who don’t fall into either, or have some qualities of one or the other or especially both. None of it makes any sense.
I don’t see how Brazil could possibly separate either. Every educated person in Brazil knows about the clowns in the South, but they’ve been considered a laughingstock for decades now, and the truth is that they have no support.
Until you guys do a poll showing how much support you have, don’t you think it’s irresponsible to claim you have all this support that you do not have?
Can you show me one instance anywhere on Earth where there has been any of a racial separatist project that resulted in a new state or nation based on one race going into one nation and the other race going into another nation? It’s never been done before, has it?
“… anywhere on Earth where there has been any of a racial separatist project that resulted in a new state or nation based on one race going into one nation and the other race going into another nation? ”
Of course it would be ludicrous to call Greeks and Turks different races, especially since actual ethnic Turkic peoples are only a small percentage of the inhabitants of Turkey, even after the transfer, but…
This leads my mind on to a peculiar facet of modern ‘anti-racist thought’: discriminating against anyone for their religion or nationality are considered equally as ‘racist’ as discriminating on physical appearance. It even now seems to be considered ‘racist’ to claim that physical appearance can be used to loosely categorise people as this race or that (for handy practical purposes). I actually had an argument about that with a prominent UK socialist, who asked why we shouldn’t categorise races according to something more substantial, like gene markers or something. Need I answer. I will anyway. Humans come as standard with eyes rather than gene scanners. He didn’t get it. Anyway, if ‘racism’ is discriminating for anyone for any reason (that doesn’t come under sexism or homophobia – have I missed any?), is it racist to discriminate against nazis ?
The desire for ‘separate’ communities or ‘separatism’ using race to draw the line – comes from ignorance. People who live with and grow to ‘know’ peoples of all shades and colors and religions and ethnicities start to see people without any ‘color lens’.
Intense desire for separatism using race – like Nazi ideas, comes from ignorance + trauma. Hitler is a good example of this. He was very ignorant – which many educated people are. Also, when younger, he was traumatized by getting his heart broken by a young woman who left him for a Jewish man. Or was it a Jewish woman who left him for a Jewish man? I can’t remember,.. but you get the point. He went from – loving Jewish people – to hating them – because of the trauma of heartbreak more than anything else. The funny thing is that the symbol he used to enforce his ‘racism’ can be seen throughout Southern India (land of blue-black Indians with kinky afros) – on everything in sight! I know, because I went there.
So, there are the ignorant racists who can be changed from racist to non-racist – these folks are usually just sheltered and don’t know any better – until they fall in love with a black person – or become friends with one. There are also the ignorant/traumatized or ignorant/brainwashed racist people – these are harder to heal. They often hurt themselves and their families just as much as they hurt people the people they are ‘racist’ against.
There are these racist ‘types’ in Black communities and Asian communities as well as White communities. There are Asians who hate Whites, Blacks who hate Asians, etc,…. etc,…. every combination exists.
There are also many people who ‘mix’ and live very happy, peaceful lives.
Just so you all know,… it is not possible to ‘judge’ an American person’s ‘race’ just by looking at them – or by studying their name – as many of these posts do – about Loewen & others. I know many ‘Black African-American’ people with completely ‘white’ features, translucent, ‘blue’ pale white (non-tanning) skin, blue eyes and blond or light red hair.
Photos provided upon request.
Wearing blinders will make you blind.
Just so you all know,… it is not possible to ‘judge’ an American person’s ‘race’ just by looking at them – or by studying their name – as many of these posts do – about Loewen & others.
I think we hit Loewen on the nose pretty well. The name seems to be of Middle German lineage and his phenotype appears High German to Middle German. For sure he doesn’t look Jewish. One can make all sorts of judgments like this, and they are often pretty accurate. Then again, there are folks that are pretty confusing.
Some Whites have a bit of an epicanthic eyefold. It’s not normal. I asked one that I knew and she said, well, we are 1/16 Indian but also 1/8 Hungarian. Probably the Hungarian. Study of phenotype is a very interesting science that has been totally discarded in today’s PC idiocy.
If you read an ethnography from 50 years of any ethnic group on Earth you will read a detailed analysis of the phenotypes, or “types” of this particular ethnic group. I assume that is all out now.
I remember once I had a class of mostly Asian ESL students. I thought they all looked alike, boy was I wrong! What was really bizarre was how the different ethnics sorted out pretty well into physical types.
There was a Khmer man, and he was totally different. There were two Vietnamese, totally different yet the two were remarkably alike. There were a number of Lao, different again but a marked similarity in the group. There was a Mien man, totally different from all the others. Very Chinese looking.
The Hmong were there too, and tended to have one main type, but there were a couple of other confusing types too. I told one Hmong man that he didn’t look Hmong and he laughed and said, “My father was Thai!”
I do unfortunately understand the mindset of the White Separatists. I grew up in 90% White towns, lived there until age 24. I liked it very much! I moved to a mixed town, noticeable decline. I moved to another White town, very nice once again. The truth is that as large numbers of Hispanics and especially Blacks move into White towns, there is a noticeable decline.
At first it is minor, but it increases and over time, the whole town is seriously changed. A town that goes from White to Hispanic suffers a noticeable decline in many cases. From White to Black, it’s often much worse.
These are the realities that motivate the White separatists. I don’t blame them for feeling that way, but it’s not going to work. They can always just keep running. That’s what US Whites do, we run and run to the Whiter areas.
I do not believe the trauma story about Hitler. He liked Jews just fine. He got wounded in the war, came out, got caught up in the rightwing “Jews stabbed us in the back” nationalist propaganda. At this time, Jews did dominate aspects of Germany. He got carried away by the storm.
On the other hand, most separatists are pretty much haters I think. Some can get along with non-Whites, but a lot dislike them. Others will hang out with them, then talk shit about them behind their backs. The movement is chock full of haters, nuts and out and Nazi maniacs. It’s not feasible anyway, plus it’s full of nasty people.
Are you willing to put the Jews of Israel into your category above? I am.
A “Black” that you describe above would really be White. The only sane way to do race is on phenotype, screw ancestry, screw genes.
Southern India is the land of blue-black Indians with kinky afros. There are many blue-black Indians but an afro is a rarity.
Can’t speak for Persian religious texts, but I don’t believe there are any Hindu religious texts that consider a “dark beauty” to be superior. In fact, most Goddesses are depicted as fair.
Also, while there are many blue-black South Indians, it would be quite rare to find one with an Afro.
I just spent the past month learning how to surf, sorry I missed all the juicy conversation here.
I’ll try to link to the world’s most famous afro:
International Spiritual Leader, India’s Sathyasaibaba:
If this link worked – it’s a photo of one of the most famous Indian people in the world. He was world famous before “bollywood” existed.
I am beginning to think that the people on this blog have never read a history book nor traveled to these countries nor researched cultures. I went to villages in India where everyone had thick, very kinky afros – way more kinky than Sai Baba here or any African or Black American I’ve seen. It may have been more obvious because, unlike Black Americans, the Indians with Afro’s really show them off. I have hundreds of photos.
I’ll put some history on here so you can learn about the (recent & ancient) genetic African roots of all Indians, but I am not technically advanced – so if my photos don’t show up – you’ll have to try the links.
Another try to link to Sai Baba’s photo:
Pahdri, that hair is “woolly” hair. It’s Negrito type hair. That’s not Black hair. Look at it. Black kinky hair and Negrito woolly hair are completely different.
Regarding what you said: ” The only sane way to do race is on Phenotype, screw ancestry, screw genes.”
The definition of Phenotype includes: ‘determined by both genetic makeup and environmental influences.’ This means that the people I describe above can be described through their genetics. Also, since their ‘culture’ is also from one race, that Black ‘culture’ is their ‘environment,’ thus, they should, by your terms be called Black – even though they look completely White.
But,… I know what you mean to say: that they should be labeled as they look – not by their DNA, nor by the people (their parents) who raised them, nor by the culture and community they are surrounded by.
Well, For unknowing ‘observers’ this may seem to make sense superficially, but for the person who looks completely one race – but is another genetically – this often doesn’t work for them or for society in the short or long term. It doesn’t work the other way around either. And, when people try to do this, it causes trauma to them, to their families and to the surrounding community. Albinos and Michael Jackson are on the ‘edge’ of this debate. They both clearly remain in the ‘race’ of their parents – no matter how much their skin color may be different.
1.) Black peole who look “completely Black” often have children who turn out looking entirely Black. So, saying that they are “White” would be problematic on many levels once they start a family.
2.) A child (usually) associates (for life) with the cultural social group they were brought up in. Obama is an example of this. He was (largely) brought up by white people, thus his appearance may resemble Blacks, but his main ‘racial culture’ is White. This is also evident in the fact that his wife was one of the few Black women he dated. It is even more evident in his social ‘ease,’ assimilation and rise in a political arena few White men can advance through. It is well known that he is proud of his White heritage as well as his Black and Asian (stepfather) heritage – because they are all part of his ‘cultural’ upbringing. Read his book “Dreams of my Father” to see what I mean.
People (especially Jewish people) strongly adhere to, and identify with their ancestry. This does not easily change – just because one kid looks different than their ancestors.
Those Asian students of yours,… if one of them looked just like a Hawaiian person – and instead of being just Hmong or Lao,…. was also mixed with Black and Jewish and White and Australian. And,…. lets say their parents were 4th generation Asian (living in Asia) and looked mostly Asian. Would you still identify this student as what they looked like “Hawaiian” instead of what they really were? I don’t think that would be correct.
I also know many people who look Hispanic/Spanish/Latin -Hispanic people all think they are Hispanic – but they are not Hispanic at all.
If what you say should be the rule – that we judge people only by their appearance – not culture – not genetics, then that would be like insisting that the next Creole (Black & Spanish & French) person you met -(that you and everybody else swore looked like an Italian) – must, indeed be called Italian for the rest of their life – only based on how they looked to you and others.
Labeling people ‘just’ by looks everytime just doesn’t work anymore – and doesn’t make sense in this day and age.
Instead,… we have to accept what people label themselves – what ancestry and culture they chose to identify with for themselves.
But,…………. now, I do agree with you if someone was robbing my store – and I had to identify them to the police. I would describe their ‘coloring’ and appearance as they appeared to me. I wouldn’t give a hoot about what they called themselves.
You’re right in that sense.
in #1) … I meant “completely White”
RL:”Can you show me one instance anywhere on Earth where there has been any of a racial separatist project that resulted in a new state or nation based on one race going into one nation and the other race going into another nation? It’s never been done before, has it?”
Isn’t that why the Great Wall of China was built? And that seemed to work fairly well, at least for a good long while.
Great wall of China was just built to keep other, very closely related NE Asian Asiatic types. Same race. The only place on Earth separation on race has been tried is in the US South and in Apartheid South Africa, and neither evolved into separate states. Those are also regarded as two of the most evil systems of the modern era, too.
There are many instances of ethnic separation, sure. I am talking about racial separation though.
RL:”The only place on Earth separation on race has been tried is in the US South and in Apartheid South Africa, and neither evolved into separate states. Those are also regarded as two of the most evil systems of the modern era, too.”
Also the caste system in India too, for many thousands of years (still technically in effect in parts of India, too).
However, the caste system didn’t work very well though – all the more reason why full and permanent geographic/physical separation is the only true solution for groups to retain their uniqueness as well as any positive qualities they possess lest they become submerged in a chaotic sea of ethnoracial mediocrity.
In India there is a preference for light skinned men as well though not to the extent Indian men have for light skinned women.
Check this out,
Fair and handsome cream for men
If you go through Indian matrimony sites and check out the profiles of women looking for grooms they are either silent on skin colour (30-40%) or (about 60-70%) state fair, wheatish etc… only. I am yet to see a profile where a women desires a dark groom.
If you look at our Bollywood heroes so admired by our ladies most are fairer than the average and have stronger Caucasian features than the average Indian.
Hritik Roshan (this guy is really really popular with the women)
This preference for fairness in celebrities exist is all ‘brown’ societies may they be Middle Eastern, North African, South Asian or Latin American. Besides the elites of all these societies tend to be fairer than the majority while the ones at the bottom tend to be darker.
Thx for this. Very interesting.
Pahdri, if you read Barack Obama’s books, you will realise he is the typical black revolutionary full of hatred for whitey.
However his half brother (and mullato) Mark was comparatively more European in his outlook (disliked Kenya, loved classical European culture). Barack met him one and his Eurocentric outlook so much disgusted barack that he never met Mark again.
The reason separatism isn’t popular in Brazil is because the rich get the best of both worlds. They have gated, guarded communities that are almost all white so they are de facto separated. The mulattoes and black Brazilians live in the slums on the hillsides away from the rich and middle classes yet they still can be used for cheap labor.
I disagree with your description of what ‘white’ means in Brazil. Just because a light skinned mulatto calls him/herself ‘white’ doesn’t mean that actual ‘white people’ think the same thing. I’ve met plenty of white Brazilians at college and while some of them may have had some Amerindian blood none of them could be mistaken for a mulatto or had any African features.
The same goes for the way the Boers implemented apartheid. They wanted to be separated but still wanted the Africans around for labor. The irony is that if the boers had just all congregated in Cape Town they just might have had their own separate city state today.
Actually, it is possible to separate races in Brazil because Brazilians measure races purely by phenotype and nobody cares about genotype, over half of the people have a distinct racial phenotype and most of them are White, people with a mixed phenotype outnumber those with a Black phenotype by at least 2.5 times and if we go by genotype then Blacks are near extinction.
Even the very few who scream for separatism don’t care about purity because at least 80% of Whites have some non-White ancestry, nordicism doesn’t work because most Brazilian Whites are South Euros and North Euros are thought of as the weird other and some think they are rather dull.
This paper explains that Brazil is much Whiter than everybody thinks:
Sex and the single colonial man.
The male of a conquering race has free pussy at his disposal and moreover with women from less developed societies with lesser expectations.
So the Portuguese man after 3 years at sea screws many jungle Indians and African slaves.
However, Mom and Dad pressure him to marry a nice girl.
Of the 12 kids he father only 3 get his support, with the white girl whom he imported.
These kids of course marry other whites.
Meanwhile the Mulatto and Indians Mestizos can expect little anyhow so they have sex and live in poverty.
Over the generations perhaps one pretty Mestizo half Indian girl marries a rich-white but even this is frowned up.
Eventually you get a racial pyramid of jungle Indians and blacks in poverty in the cities and mixes of the two and then some Mulatto who work in civil servant type jobs or police but these are all powerless beneath the ruling white elite who had the capital to open the institutions and still control the wealth.
A few East Asian or Jewish merchants slip in who live off their business acumen.
More or less this is the story of Brazil.
You see the same thing in the Phillippines. Some sex tourist or military guy screws women, they have babies, but the fucker leaves town.
Of course, I have heard stories of women there claiming to have babies – when they didn’t – primarily to scam money from the foreign men. I’d say probably both things are happening.