In the post, Albanians Are Neither White Nor Europeans? Lafayette Sennacherib takes issue with some of my anti-Nordicist POV, suggesting that ancient Greece was populated from the North, specifically the Baltics:
…there may turn out to be some truth in the notion that the Myceneans came from the North (though I think it unlikely that many went back).
I mentioned here before that I’d recently come across this book by Felice Vinci: The Baltic Origins of Homer’s Epic Tales.
Homer, as you are no doubt aware, is credited (it’s not known if he was one or many authors) with the creation of the earliest European literature with his epic tales ‘the Iliad’ about the Trojan war, and ‘the Odyssey’ about the journeys of Odysseus as he tries to find his way home, with a boatload of men, after the war.
Last I heard, the best guess is that it was composed about 1200BC and written down about 7oo BC. Trouble is, there’s a lot of description in Homer, but none of it fits the Mediterranean.
You’ve guessed what’s coming: Felice has matched all the descriptions and journey times and directions to the Baltic. Apparently there was a verifiable drastic climate change before which the Baltic was a lot more user friendly.
I think ( I haven’t read the book yet), from reviews I’ve read, that he places some of Odysseus’ travels quite far afield up the North Sea coast of Norway, and even to the Shetlands and Orkneys and possibly Scotland and Britain.
If you’ve ever seen the ancient underground towns in Shetland or Orkney (the back of beyond these days; in fact even the Romans called them Ultima Thule – the ends of the Earth), which seem to have had efficient plumbing maybe as early as 1500 BC, you can’t help but wonder how such refinements came to be in this most unlikely of places – Felice’s theory would locate them in a lively interlinked maritime world centering on the Baltic.
Of course, this isn’t proven, but I get the impression that some serious people are taking this seriously enough to fund more research.
Felice speculates that deteriorating climatic conditions caused many of these Baltic peoples to migrate south, and that they took their myths and poems with them, and that the reason that some of the names of towns correspond to known and existing Greek sites is that they named places in their new home after places in their old home, as Europeans have so obviously done in the USA, Australia and so on.
Well, I agree that the theory is interesting, but in the long run, none of it really makes sense from a Nordicist POV. Germanic tribes went all over Europe, so the very idea of Med and Nordic doesn’t make a lot of sense. And Meds went all over up into the north too. The two groups totally mixed in with each other. Nordics are part Med and Meds are part Nordic.
Bottom line is that modern Greeks are the same folks as ancient Greeks, no matter where they came from. Modern Italians are the same as the ancient Romans, no matter where the Romans came from.
Nordicists take issue with this, and say that Rome and Greece were created by some glorious Nordic types, and then after the Fall, some kind of mud people* or nigger people* from the South (I guess that means Arabs, North Africans, Ethiopians, Lebanese) came into Greece and Italy and muddied up these beautiful White German folks, creating the present day swarthy Med.
Nordicists are serious assholes!
The ones here in the US really, really, really, really hate Southern Europeans. They think they are inferior greaseball part-Mud*, part-nigger* people. Most US Nordicists say that Meds are not even White.
Anti-Southern European prejudice and discrimination, especially discrimination against Italians and Catholics, is pretty much history in White America, but at one time, this was a prominent trend. Italians have moved into the White Ruling Class, and the Catholic JFK was elected and ruled Camelot 50 years ago. Even the KKK lets Catholics in now, and says let’s let bygones be bygones.
The fact that probably 80% of White nationalists are Nordicists just shows once again how out of it these people really. Hell, these racist baboons are behind the times even in terms of intra-White prejudices. How do you spell “loser”?
If you read the original Nazi racialist authors, they do not say this at all. Say what you will about them, but they pursued this stuff as a science.
They agreed that Meds were a great White people, and that the modern Meds are descendants of the great cultures of Greece and Rome. They listed many attributes of the Meds and said that in many ways, Meds were superior to Nordics.
However, Nordics were also superior to Meds in many ways. When it all tallied up, the Nordics came out on top, but only slightly. To say that the Nazis felt that Meds were inferior is completely mistaken. Meds were a great White people, but Nordics were also great, and Nordics were somewhat greater the Meds. Of course they had to put themselves on top, all Supremacists do.
One thing the Nazi racialist scientists did say was that Meds were very creative, perhaps the most inventive and creative Whites that ever existed, or maybe the most inventive and creative humans that ever existed. They said that Meds were superior in terms of the arts, which is somewhat related.
Modern day Nordicists (neo-Nazis in general) who despise and disparage Meds as non-Whites, in all honesty, would have been thrown out of the Nazi Party in Germany! That’s how out of it they are.
This is sort of a peculiarly American and Australian thing – the Nordicist contempt for Meds. I’m not sure if you see it that much in Europe, though people are always going to be rivals.
It does exist in Italy though, where the Padanianists pour scorn on the “part-nigger”* Southerners. The Padanianists also take pride in being “Celtic.”
However, non-racial frustration with the South extends as far south as Abruzze (east of Rome) in Italy. Even in Abruzze, they think that they work hard and they don’t get all their tax money back. Instead it goes to the unproductive South, who take more in revenues than they contribute in taxes.
Further, in Abruzze, there is frustration that any tax money sent South in the form of revenues is wasted, as it just goes to the Camorra (Mafia) anyway. The notion of the South, and that means Naples south (Naples is thoroughly Camorra-overrun) as being the Land of the Camorra is not misplaced.
The Camorra for all intents and purposes practically run the show down there. Police try to fight them, but they are overwhelmed. Most of the politicians are paid off, and those who are not might get shot. Judges and investigative journalists are routinely threatened and gunned down.
There was also something like this North-South rivalry in the former Yugoslavia, with the notion being that Slovenia and Croatia were the economic engines of the place, and everything south just took in more revenues than they paid out in taxes.
In the north of Spain, there is some pride once again in being “Celtic”, but I am not aware that Northern Spaniards hate Southern Spaniards all that much, or at all.
Some of the north, especially around Leon and Asturias, is in bad shape economically, and I’m sure they take more in revenues than they pay in taxes, so the North-South thing doesn’t really work.
In Western Asturias in particular, the region is depopulating, and most towns are losing population. Even wolves are coming back to the hills and foraging in garbage dumps outside of towns. In 20 years, many villages in Western Asturias may be effectively abandoned.
The economic and industrial engines of Spain are in the Basque Country and Catalonia (industry in the Basque area, corporate offices in Catalonia). This is one of the main reasons why Spain is dead-set against having these regions secede.
51 thoughts on “Nords Versus Meds, Game Starts at 8 Eastern Time”
I have read the Nazi guys. They are split. There were some early proto-Nazi types who held the traditional Nord lie that the ruling classes of all of Eurasia were made of peripatetic Nords making the rounds of Eurasia and lording it over all those swarthy inferiors. The Nazi authors that I respect more take the position quite clearly that the present day Meds are the same people who made up Greece and Italy.
Incidentally, the Ethiopian or Black aspect to the Greeks came in long ago, during the Greek Empire. The Greeks were being infused by a small amount of Ethiopian genes while they were ruling the West. The Romans are clearly the same as present day Italians, especially the Italians in the central part of the country.
There have been some Arab genes moving into the South since then, but that only gets as far north as Naples and it’s not that significant. Meds are part Nord, Nords are part Med. Even the Nazis said so. By the way, the Nazi authors said that the same creative and inventive factors that created Greece and Rome were still extant in those populations today. On the downside, they tend to be somewhat corrupt, given to passions and chaotic.
Meds are like these sort of eccentric artist – genius types who would rather enjoy life than be workaholics. Nords are workaholic, morose to serious, but they tend to lack inventiveness and creativity. 6 of one, half a dozen of the other. Each group has strong positive as well as negative aspects.
The hatred of Meds thing comes straight out of the US and Australia. These countries were settled by Northern Europeans. Later, poor Southern Europeans came in, and the native Whites regarded them as poor, backwards and inferior. Hence the anti-Med mindset of Australian and US WN’s is rooted in the cultures of those nations and not really in Europe. I’ve hardly met a Scandinavian, Brit, Frenchman or German who hates Meds.
I’ve seen it.
RL: “…Ancient Greece was populated from the North…Bottom line is that modern Greeks are the same folks as ancient Greeks, no matter where they came from. Modern Italians are the same as the ancient Romans, no matter where the Romans came from.”
True to a certain extent, but not entirely. As silver noted above, it was the ruling elite classes of ancient Greece and ancient Rome who were often of Nordic (or mostly Nordic) descent; the ancient Greek/Roman empires weren’t composed entirely of Nordics, but rather Nordics/part-Nordics often formed the upper-stratum in those cultures and ruled over the swarthier, less-advanced masses. And it was of course those Nordic elite classes that caused those cultures to rise to the greatness and glory which they did. All of that advanced Greek/Roman architecture, literature, philosophy, political ideas, oratory, etc? It’s almost entirely of Nordic extraction. Both empires ended up declining once (just like the modern USA) they ended up getting swamped by too many (often racially inferior) immigrants.
All you have to do is look at all the hundreds of still extant statues/busts of the ancient Greek/Roman elites and see the truth for yourself…the people depicted by those statues don’t look like your typical Southern Euro Meds…they clearly have Northern European facial features. There are also written descriptions of many of the most eminent and elite Greeks/Romans stating that they had often blond/red/light-colored hair, blue/green/gray eyes, light skin, and so on.
Also, in your explanation here I don;t think you’re taking in to account all of the more recent population movements which have occurred in Southern Europe which saw many Arabized/Turkic/Semitic types coming in to Europe through Iberia, Italy, Greece, and the Caucusus. Many parts of Southern and Eastern Europe used to be much more Nordic/Germanic only 1,500-2,000 years ago – but as stated in the last 1,500-2,000 there have been many major population shifts in Europe which forced many Nordics/Germanics to retreat further Northward and Westward as more and more swarthier Arabized/Turkic/Semitic types continued to pour in to Europe through the aforementioned Southern Euro corridors in the last 15-20 centuries.
Madison Grant didn’t have all the answers, but he did have enough evidence to show that the range of Nordic types used to be much wider across Europe than it currently is; see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Passing_of_the_Great_Race_-_Map_2.jpg & http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Passing_of_the_Great_Race_-_Map_3.jpg
Apparently there is no truth whatsoever to the notion that the ruling elites were Nordics. The best info that I have seen is that they were the same race as everyone else. This is just some crazy lie made up by Nordicist crazies. I have looked at those statues and many other people have looked at them too. Those phenotypes are all present to a high degree in present day Italy and Greece.
Further, there is no way you can look at those statues and say that that is a typical Nordic face.
Worse, the Greeks and Romans were aware of the peoples to the north (Nordics) and described them as pale, blond or red haired and with blue or green eyes. These same texts note that Greeks and Romans did NOT look like this, and that these Germanics looked completely different from the ancient Greeks and Romans. In the same texts, Greeks and Romans describe themselves and from the description, they are the same folks who are there now.
The part about descriptions of the ruling classes being Nordic is a lie. Also that Europe 2,000 years ago was a Nordic place is apparently a lie too. These are all just Nordicists lies. What’s fascinating is that the prominent Nazi authors did not buy 1% of it. This stuff has all come out of Nordicist circles in the US has to do with internal US prejudices of US Whites against Southern Europeans.
People have been moving through the Southern Mediterranean for hundreds or thousands of years. There is no evidence for some modern infusion of Turkic or Semitic blood into the region. There were some Arab conquests, true, but those only went partway into Southern Italy. Those influences are strongest in Sicily.
And Madison Grant had no evidence whatsoever to base that on either. These Nordicists are completely out to lunch. 80% of US WN’s are out and out Nordicists, and the movement deserves to die right there on gross stupidity grounds if no other.
Any US White movement that writes off Southern Europeans as non-White is going nowhere fast. How dumb can you get? White Americans stopped hating Catholics and Italians decades ago. These guys are fucking dinosaurs.
Another Nazi liar. lol! One Greek said how Greeks were the perfect color – not too pale / light like northerners (Nordics / Germanics / Celts / whatever), and not too dark like southerners (black Africans).
Another Greek said that blue eyes were a sign of bad eyesight, pale white skin and light hair a sign of barbarism.
Seriously, you cannot brainwash me into believing your dumb, moronic BS. You’re insecure because of the lack of amazing empires in the north which the south built themselves.
We know you’re jealous and angry at how this destroys your pride. It sucks, and truth hurts (you). I’m sorry for that (not!). You silly propagandist morons need to claim someone elses history to feel better about yourselves. That’s a huge sign of (mental/emotional) inferiority.
You’re no different from the Afrocentric bafoons who try to say the original Greeks or Romans were black African. Seriously, you’re both just that emotionally delusional. lol!
So you say these Nordics were only the highclass rulers, yet why did the north FULL of “superior Nordic peoples” not build an equivalent to Rome, Greece, Persia or Egypt? Amazing! Oh, but that logic just slips your (inferior) individual minds.
The irony, how you claim to be superior, yet prove to be inferior (of mind).
Greeks also did not like foreigners. The Greeks said anyone not Greek were barbarians. Sorry bud, but Greeks were not Nordic, nor were their leaders. The wishful thinking on your part is quite astounding, really.
You trying to claim Mediterranean civilizations only proves how insecure you are about Nordic history, which was not NEARLY as glorious as DARK, SWARTHY Mediterranean and even Middle Eastern (Persian) history.
You Nazis have implanted quotes and I’m sure sculptures over the years to try and brainwash the masses, but it’s not working on me.
Your Nordic barbarian ancestors invaded Rome and Greek about 1700 years ago and stole many technologies, then discriminated against the indigenous peoples and became the ruling elite later on, but to continue this rule, you had to brainwash everyone into thinking you light complexioned people were always superior, so you made up your BS history to convince everyone of this, but people can now see how much lies you’ve spread because your pride was smashed back then, and now it’s going to be smashed again. 🙂
RL: “Germanic tribes went all over Europe, so the very idea of Med and Nordic doesn’t make a lot of sense. And Meds went all over up into the north too. The two groups totally mixed in with each other. Nordics are part Med and Meds are part Nordic.”
Yes, it’s true that Nordic/Germanic tribes went all over Europe and left their genes wherever they went, but Meds didn’t go all over the north as much as you think. Some did, but not too many. They are not “totally mixed in with each other” – there is a continuum of mixture stretching from the extreme Nordic north of central Scandinavia (very few Med genes there) to the extreme Med south of Southern Italy (very few Nordic genes left there).
Europe north of the Alps used to be entirely Nordic/Germanic until it became substantially mixed with Alpines and Meds in the last 15-20 centuries as discussed in the previous post. There used to be substantial Nordic settlements south of Alps (again, the Roman empire) but only traces of that is now left.
Speaking of Alpines…why no reference to their role in all of this constant racial shuffling in Europe? Why such the polarity between Nords and Meds and no discussion of the Alpines intermediaries?
And as I wrote on silver’s blog a while back, when a Nordic mixes with another group, even if it’s another White group, their Nordicism is basically lost forever as it is blended in to a more mixed gene pool: “A big reason for Nord separatism is that Nords are literally a critically endangered White racial group and becoming more so with every passing year – they are either failing to reproduce enough, have run out of room/resources with which to reproduce more, or are mixing with other White (or non-White) ethnic groups which totally interrupts the Northern Euro ethnic line that should be consciously and permanently protected and preserved. A Nord mixed with any other group basically ceases to be a Nord because the offspring will likely identify and look more like the other group (because very White [Nordic] traits are recessive). In other words, when a Nord and a Med mix the resulting genetic line (while still White overall) becomes permanently Med while the Nord is almost entirely subsumed and lost.”
Referring to the recessive genetic features of Whites, Madison Grant once wrote: “The cross between a white man and an Indian is an Indian; the cross between a white man and a Negro is a Negro; the cross between a white man and a Hindu is a Hindu; and the cross between any of the three European races and a Jew is a Jew.”
That is why it’s important to consciously protect the White gene pool from too much intrusion.
Also be sure to better note the terms on Grant’s maps; there were apparently groups he referred to as ‘Pre-Teutonic Nordics’ in addition to ‘Continental Nordics,’ ‘Teutonic Nordics,’ and ‘Scandinavian Nordics.’ So apparently there are even many Nordic sub-subgroups of the wider White Nordic subgroup.
The ‘Pre-Teutonic Nordics’ were apparently a more ancient Nordic stock and over time became more ‘Alpinized’ and/or ‘Mediterraneanized’ merely by being in more southerly/sunnier climates for long periods of time, as well as inbreeding some with darker Southern and Eastern White subgroups; that would’ve caused them to lose their stereotypical light-haired + light-eyed slowly appearance over time, though possibly the Pre-Teutonic Nordic core remained for a while…that even happens during the yearly cycle for individuals – for instance, my own dirty-blond hair gets quite a bit darker every winter and much lighter in summer, while my blue eyes get noticeably darker during the sunny summer months and a lot more blue in winter.
Another monkey-wrench is thrown in to all of this by the fact that later racialists later started to separate out even more White racial groups, those being the Baltic and Dinaric Whites: (though others still just saw them as Alpine subgroups); see: http://www.white-history.com/earlson/hfk/reoehcover.htm
The author of that book also states that Nordic (or part-Nordic) Whites formed the upper-classes in the ancient Greek and Roman empires, just as they did as ‘Aryans’ in India way back and maybe ancient Persia too: http://www.white-history.com/earlson/hfk/reoehchap8b.htm & http://www.white-history.com/earlson/hfk/reoehchap8c.htm
I don’t believe in any of that either. I don’t believe that the ancient ruling classes of Persia, India and even Armenia were all Nordics. It’s totally insane.
White History site is a Nordicist site. Like I said, almost all WN’s in the US are Nordicists. There are hardly any Meds or even Alpines in their ranks. This is a loser of a movement if there ever was one.
I read the code of Hammurabi once and I caught reference to him ruling over black headed people.
“When Anu the Sublime, King of the Anunaki, and Bel, the lord of Heaven and earth, who decreed the fate of the land, assigned to Marduk, the over-ruling son of Ea, God of righteousness, dominion over earthly man, and made him great among the Igigi, they called Babylon by his illustrious name, made it great on earth, and founded an everlasting kingdom in it, whose foundations are laid so solidly as those of heaven and earth; then Anu and Bel called by name me, Hammurabi, the exalted prince, who feared God, to bring about the rule of righteousness in the land, to destroy the wicked and the evil-doers; so that the strong should not harm the weak; so that I should rule over the black-headed people like Shamash, and enlighten the land, to further the well-being of mankind.”
I’m not sure what to make of it, but thought it might add to the discussion.
Black-headed probably means they act bad. I’ve never heard any references to Sumerians being some kind of Whites. They probably look something like the modern day Assyrians.
RL: “I don’t believe that the ancient ruling classes of Persia, India and even Armenia were all Nordics.”
What do you mean? Of course the ancient ruling classes of India were indeed predominantly White (they were called ‘Aryan invaders’ as you know…not sure if ‘Aryan’ is the same as ‘Nordic’?), and the ancient caste system was put in place to prevent the non-White natives from breeding too much with the more White upper-classes. The caste system was basically put in to place in order to preserve the ‘blood purity’ of the Whiter upper classes as much as possible. You’ve read the genetic evidence about all that, and I distinctly remember you posting about it on your old blog. It wouldn’t be too hard to find those PDFs again. Even the mtDNA marker Haplogroup T is found as far east as India and Pakistan amongst the upper classes there in modern times even though Haplogroup T is mainly still found in parts of Europe today – indeed, much of European royalty in recent centuries have also had Haplogroup T as their mtDNA marker, similar to what is found in India and Pakistan.
Many ancient Whites settled in ancient Persia and other areas along the way to Pakistan/India/Central Asia where they did tend to become part of the elite classes above the non-White native groups. They even found mummies of ancient White way over in parts of what is now China: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarim_mummies – this suggests that Whites were likely some component of the elite way over there too at that time, because why else would they have deserved mummification? Very old mummies of White origin have also popped up from waaaaaaaay back ancient Egypt too as I think I’ve noted here on this blog before.
But eventually multiracialism set in (as it seems to do everywhere) and the various scattered White elites became more and more non-White over time; however, a few physical features as well as cultural legacies of those ancient Whites remain (like languages, religions, architecture, etc).
That White History website is indeed Nordicist, but it is mostly accurate in terms of quoting the raw scientific facts/figures. However, those links in the previous post were to a book written about European races in the late 1920s – the Nordicist who runs that website just uploaded it there.
I’m not a hardcore Nordicist myself, but it’s still very important to preserve and protect what little bit of the Nordic race is still left on Earth before it goes mostly extinct or else becomes almost totally subsumed in to other groups. Think of Nordics like an endangered species – people care about the preservation and protection of all kinds of whales, sharks, field mice, rare ants, and whatever else…but why not a certain branch of the White race?
That being said, I follow ‘Pan-White’ beliefs that seek to preserve and protect all of the unique and racially/ethnically diverse White subgroups – Nordicism and Aryanism are just to exclusive for my tastes (even though I’m mostly of Nordic/Northern-Euro descent) because I seek unity between all of the different White groups in order to prevent the overall White race from being utterly swamped by non-Whites (especially Asiatics) eventually. Read a recent comment of mine on these topics: http://www.toqonline.com/2009/06/the-myth-of-our-regeneration/#comment-393
The ruling classes of India were the Whiter people who are now the northwest Indians. They are Aryans. They are a people who came from the Caucasus and Iran. That’s who they are. Perhaps it is best to see these people as ancient Whites. These are similar to the present day Persians, Azeris, Georgians, Chechens, Turks, Kurds, Jews, Armenians, White Afghans, White Pakistanis (north Pakistanis). It’s all one group of people. They are NOT Nordics! They’re ancient White people. Those are the original Whites. That’s where we came from. They look different because they are ancient. We Europeans are just a more recent model.
The Iranids who ruled India did indeed lord it over the darker Dravidian types. This is true. But the rulers were not fucking Germans! They look sort of like Turks, Jews, Armenians, Iranians, Italians, Assyrians. They come from that Near Eastern stock.
Aryan is NOT the same as Nordic. Hitler is simply a racial moron. Aryans are the original Whites of the steppes, the Iranids, Armenids, Caucasids, etc. Kurds, Turks, Jews, Armenians, Chechens, Azeris, Georgians, Afghans, Tajiks, Iranians, North Pakistanis, and yes the far north Indians like Punjabis.
Hitler was an asshole! He took a good racial word – Aryan – denominating this ancient Indo-Iranian stock, and married to Nordics – Germans! WTF? It’s bullshit. The Nazi word “Aryan” is just some bullshit Nazi word for Nordic.
Many ancient Whites settled in ancient Persia and other areas along the way to Pakistan/India/Central Asia where they did tend to become part of the elite classes above the non-White native groups.
This part is just insane. The ruling classes were the same as everyone else in all of those places. The ancient Whites are just the people themselves. The Whites of Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iran (everyone), Tajikistan are the people. The people are ancient Whites. You have it all mixed up. Whites came out of this region. This is where our homeland is. They went from the Near East to Europe. Those people are just ancient Whites. That’s why they look different. There were no non-Whites in that area really, other than Dravidians in Pakistan and India, Asiatics in Afghanistan. Everyone in Iran is White.
The Tarim mummies are just ancient Indo-Iranian types who were in that region. They are not Europeans really. They’re more like Iranians, Pashtuns, or Punjabis. There has always been a lot of gene flow back and forth in those place. The Asiatics ruled over the Indo-Iranian Whites and in some cases vice versa. Really you can make a better case for the Asiatics ruling over the Indo-Iranians.
The notion about White mummies in Egypt is completely insane. Sorry. The ancient Egyptians are the same as the people there today. They were 10% Black now and they are 10% Black today.
That White History website is indeed Nordicist, but it is mostly accurate in terms of quoting the raw scientific facts/figures.
It’s not. It’s just the usual lies of the Nordicist slime.
But eventually multiracialism set in (as it seems to do everywhere) and the various scattered White elites became more and more non-White over time; however, a few physical features as well as cultural legacies of those ancient Whites remain (like languages, religions, architecture, etc).
I see you have bought this nonsense part and parcel. Truth: There is no evidence for any of it.
However, those links in the previous post were to a book written about European races in the late 1920s – the Nordicist who runs that website just uploaded it there.
Indeed, Madison Grant is one of the most disgusting Nordicist maggots of them all.
Think of Nordics like an endangered species – people care about the preservation and protection of all kinds of whales, sharks, field mice, rare ants, and whatever else…but why not a certain branch of the White race?
What’s bizarre is the only Whites who are insistent about preserving their micro-race are the Nordics. The rest don’t give a fuck, which is how it should be. White is White.
A lot of this stuff is just the legacy of imperialism, particularly the British Empire which had a huge influence on the formative USA. It’s just the propaganda used to egg on the troops; you know, they’re not fighting for the bankers, but to defend decent upright Anglo values against oily French dagoes and greasy Spanish spics etc, and of course bringing civilisation to the benighted nig-nogs.
As to the Greeks: those who claim that the modern Greeks have no link to the ancient Greeks seem to be totally unaware of the history. Greek civilisation wasn’t located solely in modern Greece, but was a maritime civilisation, spread along the Anatolian (modern Turkey) coast, and the Black Sea too. This didn’t end when they were conquered by the Romans; they just paid taxes to the Romans. The Roman Empire split into 2 parts in the early centuries AD. The Western part eventually disintegrated , but the Eastern part, basically the old Greek world, continued for another thousand years. The Roman Empire didn’t end until the mid fifteenth century ( 1452?) with the fall of Constantinople to the Ottoman Turks. There WAS subsequently a lot of Turkish penetration into the Greek mainland, BUT after World War I there was a population swap ( appalling business with enormous fatalities) between the new nation states of Turkey and Greece (liberated in the 19th Century); the Turkish speakers/ethnics left Greece, and the Greeks left Turkey where they had lived for thousands of years. Absolute sick madness, but that’s how the modern Greeks are certainly the descendants of the ancient Greeks. Try ‘ Twice a Stranger: How Mass Expulsion Forged Modern Greece and Turkey ‘ by Bruce Clark, or ‘ Salonica: City of Ghosts’ by Mark Mazower on this. Bruce Clark wrote the only convincing account of Yeltsin’s assault on the Russian Parliament in his excellent ‘ the Empire’s New Clothes’.
I sometimes get the impression that the zionists are trying to promote, in the USA, the notion that Europe has been over-run with Muslims and that we are no longer the people the the white Americans are descended from. Very far from the truth. To be fair, there are plenty of nuts on this side of the Atlantic who make a lot of noise about the Islamisation of Europe. France has the largest Muslim population, with about 3% ( I think ) and most countries have next to none. The integration of 70 million Turks into Europe could be problematic, or not – I don’t really know; but I suspect the problems would be more to do with Turkey’s political culture than religion, though that could change. The zionists seem to be very keen on Turkey’s entry into Europe – I don’t know why; maybe as a precursor to Israel’s entry into the EU – perish the thought.
Great post man. I like it.
True, at least the Hellenistic culture of late antiquity survived well into the late Medieval/early Renaissance period w/ the Byzantines. I’m not sure why western historians seem to willfully ignore Byzantium. It’s also probable that it didn’t vanish into the ether w/ the Ottoman conquest either.
That’s right, Mort. I agree completely. Greek civilization can only be understood in a Pan Mediterranean context, and it did not go under but remained as glorious Byzantium for centuries. While it was being “mud-flooded” I guess.
They are NOT Nordics! They’re ancient White people. Those are the original Whites. That’s where we came from. They look different because they are ancient. We Europeans are just a more recent model.
Here’s how I understand it. Europe was originally populated by people from the Near East/Levant/Caucasus/Central Asia/North Africa/etc, you are correct. These people were originally dark, of course. However, the features we associate with modern whites and especially Nordics (light skin, light eyes, light hair, increased height, long skulls, long high-bridged noses, etc) slowly evolved only in Europe, and thus proto-Nordic types and likely other White groups eventually emerged there and only there in Northern Europe which had those distinct features. Eventually those proto-Nordics apparently fanned out over Eurasia because we now find physical as well as genetic evidence of those exact same NORDIC features all over parts of Eurasia (Persia, Afghanistan, Pakistan, NW India, and other parts of Central Asia) – again, they had to have been brought there by Nordics within the last few thousand years because those features were just not evident in those areas before Nordics arrived even if those people were/are the “original Whites” as you say – they might be the “original Whites,” but they still all had dark hair, dark eyes, and darkish skin until the newer (more recently evolved) European Whites took their genes there which carried the lighter features we all now think of as “White.” Those light features clearly didn’t evolve amongst the “original Whites” who are in reality quite dark and now many are mixed extensively with Central Asians, Semites/Arabs, East Asian mongols, and even some African elements – those very White/Nordic features were brought to those regions and peoples fairly recently (within the last 10,000 years or so) from Europe because, again, those unique features only managed to evolve in Europe proper and nowhere else.
The ruling classes were the same as everyone else in all of those places. The ancient Whites are just the people themselves. The Whites of Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iran (everyone), Tajikistan are the people. The people are ancient Whites. You have it all mixed up. Whites came out of this region. This is where our homeland is. They went from the Near East to Europe. Those people are just ancient Whites. That’s why they look different. There were no non-Whites in that area really, other than Dravidians in Pakistan and India, Asiatics in Afghanistan. Everyone in Iran is White.
Again, how do you then explain some Nordic White features among those people? As stated, those Nordic features ONLY evolved in Europe. Like I said, the “original White” groups you mentioned originally settled the European continent tens of thousands of years ago…then Nordics slowly evolved their unique White features and eventually fanned back out over large swathes of of those regions and left behind some of their genes and thus the resulting light eyes, high-bridged noses, light/colored hair, and so on. As far as I know none of those prototypical European White features (especially light hair/eyes, tallness, the unique Nordic skull shape, etc) were ever present amongst those peoples until they were brought there by bands of marauding Nordics and/or other White Europeans within the last few thousand years.
“The Tarim mummies are just ancient Indo-Iranian types who were in that region. They are not Europeans really. They’re more like Iranians, Pashtuns, or Punjabis.”
Some maybe, but not others: “The new finds are also forcing a reexamination of old Chinese books that describe historical or legendary figures of great height, with deep-set blue or green eyes, long noses, full beards, and red or blond hair. Scholars have traditionally scoffed at these accounts, but it now seems that they may be accurate.” – “These people, they said, exceeded the ordinary human height, had flaxen hair, and blue eyes…” – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarim_mummies – “Yingpan Man not only had a gold foil death mask — a Greek tradition — covering his blonde bearded face, but also wore elaborate golden embroidered red and maroon garments with seemingly Western European designs. His nearly 2.00 meter (six-foot, six-inch) long body is the tallest of all the mummies found so far and the clothes and artifacts discovered in the surrounding tombs suggest the highest level of Caucasoid civilization in the ancient Tarim Basin region.” – http://www.khaleejtimes.com/DisplayArticleNew.asp?section=todaysfeatures&xfile=data/todaysfeatures/2005/april/todaysfeatures_april37.xml
“The notion about White mummies in Egypt is completely insane. Sorry. The ancient Egyptians are the same as the people there today. They were 10% Black now and they are 10% Black today.”
What do you mean? They’ve found Egyptian mummies with distinctly European White features (light hair, White skulls, White noses, etc): http://guywhite.wordpress.com/2009/01/08/egyptian-mummies-with-blond-brown-and-red-hair/ – you can’t really dispute obvious physical evidence. There were Black mummies there too after ancient Egypt experienced a multiracial nightmare of their own through conquest by the mostly Black Nubians.
“Indeed, Madison Grant is one of the most disgusting Nordicist maggots of them all.”
That book – http://www.white-history.com/earlson/hfk/reoehcover.htm – wasn’t written by Grant…it’s by Hans F.K. Günther. Grant wasn’t a “maggot” – he was a major figure in early American environmentalism and ecoconservation…without him your home state of California might not even have its awesome redwood trees still standing…http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madison_Grant#Conservation_efforts – and he also saved many other species from the brink of extinction, among many other things. A fascinating and brilliant man for sure.
“What’s bizarre is the only Whites who are insistent about preserving their micro-race are the Nordics. The rest don’t give a fuck, which is how it should be. White is White.”
What, you don’t respect diversity, cultural preservation, and the right to group determination away from the interference of others?
“a few physical features as well as cultural legacies of those ancient Whites remain (like languages, religions, architecture, etc). … I see you have bought this nonsense part and parcel. Truth: There is no evidence for any of it.”
Well, some of the religious artifacts recently found among the White Tarim mummies show evidence of bovine worshiping: “The bottom layer of graves dates back nearly 4,000 years. More recent graves point to a matriarchal herding society that worshiped cows, Mr. Abuduresula said.” – http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/19/world/asia/19mummy.html?pagewanted=2 – these ancient Nordics in Western China were worshiping cows, which of course sounds awfully similar to Hinduism, that very old religion that was, I posit, started by the ancient Whites/Nordics who invaded Pakistan/India within the last few thousand years as is shown by Grant’s map in the top-right corner – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Passing_of_the_Great_Race_-_Map_2.jpg – the time-scales are likely off in that map, as I’m quite sure Nordics launched various missions and invasions in to Central Asia and so forth long before 1,800 BCE…I’m thinking more along the lines of 4,000-6,000 BCE (or even before), tying in with the extreme ancientness of both Hinduism and Zoroastrianism (both very old White [likely Nordic] invented religions, plus their associated liturgical languages that have European roots). There were likely many different waves of Nordic and other European White explorers and settlers who took those White/European physical features (again, features which only evolved in Europe proper) to all of those disparate areas.
I still don’t think you are understanding that NORDIC Whites launched invasions/conquests of many countries within the last few thousand years, taking their Nordic White features with them and spreading them around in many of the areas they conquered and/or settled in. I don’t think many Persians/Afghans/Indians/Pakistanis/etc had very many of the prototypical physical features that we now consider White until Nordic and/or other Euro-White invaders/colonizers/explorers took them and left them there by breeding some of with the local natives.
Eventually those proto-Nordics apparently fanned out over Eurasia because we now find physical as well as genetic evidence of those exact same NORDIC features all over parts of Eurasia (Persia, Afghanistan, Pakistan, NW India, and other parts of Central Asia)
No, no no no no no a thousand times no. Those genes and that appearance developed in many parts of the world. The ancient Persins and the modern Persians. No Nordics ever showed up there. The Whites of Pakistan, and NW India came from the Near East. Those Whites came from Armenia, Turkey, Kurdistan, Caucasus, Persia, etc. They moved east to Afghanistan, N Pakistan and India. They’ve done genetic studies on them. They are Iranids, Armenids and Caucasids. They are NOT from Germany!
those very White/Nordic features were brought to those regions and peoples fairly recently (within the last 10,000 years or so) from Europe because, again, those unique features only managed to evolve in Europe proper and nowhere else.
No, those Aryans who populated NW India and Pakistan came from the Near East about 5-6,000 years ago. If you look at them, they look like Iranians, Greeks, Italians, Jews, Turks, Kurds, Armenians.
Those light features clearly didn’t evolve amongst the “original Whites” who are in reality quite dark and now many are mixed extensively with Central Asians, Semites/Arabs, East Asian mongols, and even some African elements – those very White/Nordic features were brought to those regions and peoples fairly recently (within the last 10,000 years or so) from Europe because, again, those unique features only managed to evolve in Europe proper and nowhere else.
No one knows anything about population movements going back 10,000 years. I read extensively about this stuff, and I have never heard anything about some Nordics fanning out over the Near East, Middle East and South Asia. Those Iranids and Indids do not have any Black in them at all.
Yeah, Yingpan Man is a some Greek type. I’m not too sure who those mummies were, but my understanding is that once again those people came from the Near East, Iranids, Armenids, Caucasids, etc.
Extensive genetic studies have been done on the Egyptian mummies. They are Egyptians. The Egyptian gene pool is the same. They were 9% Black then and they are 9% Black now. They are an indigenous NE African Caucasid group that is something like a Berber. There are probably elements of general Med in them, and a lot of Arabid. They certainly are not Germans! They’re not Blacks either. They are just the indigenous mostly-White Caucasids of N Africa. That’s who made that great civilization. Not a bunch of Germans!
Madison Grant is a Nazi. All Nordicists are Nazis. That’s the bottom line. That’s why Nordicism is the most proscribed form of WN of all. It’s the most stigmatized for good reason and the least likely to go over with White people.
What, you don’t respect diversity, cultural preservation, and the right to group determination away from the interference of others?
I think it’s weird that only Nords want to preserve their White subrace. Obviously it is because they think they are superior to all other Whites.
BTW, I am a Nordic myself. Or Nord-Alpine mix. My German roots come from Baden Wurttemberg near Bavaria and those S Germans are more Alpine. The rest of my roots are from the UK, but Brits are not necessarily Nordics. Some are, some art. They are an unholy mix.
The people who brought in the cow worship to NW India were the Aryans. As I said, they came from the Near East, the Caucasus and Persia. They’re not Germans!
I’m thinking more along the lines of 4,000-6,000 BCE (or even before), tying in with the extreme ancientness of both Hinduism and Zoroastrianism (both very old White [likely Nordic] invented religions, plus their associated liturgical languages that have European roots).
Yes, there are genetic studies that document this movement, but they are not Germans! They are from Caucasus, Turkey and Persia.
I still don’t think you are understanding that NORDIC Whites launched invasions/conquests of many countries within the last few thousand years
There’s no evidence for any of this. True, Germanic tribes conquered much of Europe in the past 2000 years, indeed. So that means what? Italians, Spaniards, Czechs, Hungarians, Poles, Portuguese and Frenchmen are all German Nordics?
BTW, the ancient Romans came from Romania! They are NOT Germans!
Those features you discuss are present in small numbers all across Caucasian populations. No one really knows where they came from, honestly. But I’ve never seen any scholarly studies saying that they all came from fucking Germany!
I’m sorry, but Nordicist scum really infuriate me, and I’m Nordic myself I guess. Those are the lowest maggots of them all. Nordicists are Nazis!
An understanding of Madison Grant needs to be situated in an understanding of US culture. Sure, he’s a Nord, but his worldview is shaped by waves of East and South European immigrants flooding the US. The native North European Americans really hated these people and thought they were inferior. This is where the Nordicist maggot Madison Grant is coming from.
No, no no no no no a thousand times no. Those genes and that appearance developed in many parts of the world. The ancient Persins and the modern Persians. No Nordics ever showed up there.
Mr. Lindsay – it’s clear that light eyes, light hair, and the typical Northern European nose were not found in Persia, Afghanistan, NW India, or parts of Central Asia before various European peoples (Nordics or whoever) TOOK them to those places in the last few thousand years. As far as I know, light eyes and light hair as common/standard physical features only evolved in Northern Europe and nowhere else on Earth (except in very rare/extreme cases) – thus wherever on Earth light-hair colors and non-brown eyes are found, that is also where Europeans who possessed those unique European physical features have at one time lived and bred with the natives.
Light eyes never became at all common in Persia or Afghanistan or any of those areas of the planet until Europeans with those features went there and bred with some of the natives within the last few thousand years.
“No, those Aryans who populated NW India and Pakistan came from the Near East about 5-6,000 years ago. … Yes, there are genetic studies that document this movement, but they are not Germans! They are from Caucasus, Turkey and Persia.”
How do you know what people in that area of the world looked like 5-6,00 years ago? In his books and maps M. Grant presents evidence that ‘Continental Nordics’ used to live all over those areas, in the Caucasus, in to parts of Turkey and the Near East, Persia, Greece, in modern Kazakhstan and far in to what is now called Central Asia – see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Passing_of_the_Great_Race_-_Map_2.jpg – thus it could have very well been ancient Nordic types from those areas who populated NW India/Pakistan many thousands of years ago if way back then the Nordic range used to be much larger than it is now.
“I’m not too sure who those mummies were, but my understanding is that once again those people came from the Near East, Iranids, Armenids, Caucasids, etc.”
Well, since many of them have features now associated with Nordic/Northern European types, they clearly descend from those types of people. Not many modern Iranians, Armenians, Near Easterners, or people from the Caucasus are very tall, blond, light-eyed, and long skulled. Or again, maybe the Nordic range used to be much larger than it currently is? I agree that the knowledge about ancient population movements is very limited, so it’s hard to pin it all down.
I don’t know why you keep saying “They are NOT Germans!” over and over here…of course they weren’t as modern nations as we now know them didn’t exist back then.
As far as I know, light eyes and light hair as common/standard physical features only evolved in Northern Europe and nowhere else on Earth (except in very rare/extreme cases) – thus wherever on Earth light-hair colors and non-brown eyes are found, that is also where Europeans who possessed those unique European physical features have at one time lived and bred with the natives.
I don’t know, and the scholarly journals that I read don’t discuss this. People move around. Big deal. Why is this important?
How do you know what people in that area of the world looked like 5-6,00 years ago?
Well, we don’t, but that’s when the Aryan Invasion came. It came 5,000 years ago. And the Aryans were not a bunch of Germans! They came from the fucking Near East!
In his books and maps M. Grant presents evidence that ‘Continental Nordics’ used to live all over those areas, in the Caucasus, in to parts of Turkey and the Near East, Persia, Greece, in modern Kazakhstan and far in to what is now called Central Asia – see:
Madison Grant is a stinking, rotten Nordicist maggot! How does he know where Nordics roamed 1000’s of years ago? He has no idea.
– thus it could have very well been ancient Nordic types from those areas who populated NW India/Pakistan many thousands of years ago if way back then the Nordic range used to be much larger than it is now.
Well, the NW Indian genes that came from the invasion look like the genes of Turkoids, Iranids and Caucasids. Of the present day.
Well, since many of them have features now associated with Nordic/Northern European types, they clearly descend from those types of people.
No, the genes of those light-haired, light-eye mummies came from the Caucasus. They look like genes of the present day peoples of the Caucasus.
Nordicists are evil Nazis. Kill the Nordicists! WPWW.
Pardon my ignorance/naivete, but I assumed Europe (I assume including Greece, etc.) was populated from the north *east,* meaning the steppes of Eurasia. This would include Celts, Germanics, various Iranids, pretty much all.
Also, if it is to be assumed that Nordics are the civilization bearers, what about all the non-indo european civs of the “fertile crescent,” Harrapa, etc. which (according to conventional history anyway) predated all the others?
Oh, and if the Mycenaens came from the north–and I assume that they came from the Northeast, like I said–they *were* preceded by the highly sopisticated Minoans, whom (AFAIK) were not indo-european/Aryan at all.
Yes, Europe was populated from the Northeast, exactly, from the Near East. The Aryans are the Irano-Indids. Those, IMHO, are original Whites. Jews, Turks, Kurds, Iranians, Tajiks, Armenians, Georgians, Chechens, Caucasus, Afghans. And perhaps the Myceans came from the Baltic, ok. But they were preceded by a (presumably) Semitic type, who were the Minoans, one of the greatest civilizations that ever existed.
I’m sorry for being dense, but I don’t know what (AFAIK) means.
As far as I know = AFAIK.
Nazis didn’t consider Meds including Jews to be inferior but considered Jews to be evil.
Nazis DID consider Slavs to be inferior but not Jews. Jews were evil and intelligent.
Yeah, that’s excellent. Reading over Nazi racial thinkers (some of them are very good), it’s clear to me that they did not think that Meds were really inferior at all. They were just different. And Jews were certainly not inferior at all. At least they were smart enough to admit that. Jews were not inferior, they were just evil. Exactly. That’s precisely what I got out of it.
What’s weird that US Nordicists really harp on the Meds are grotesquely inferior thing, which is utterly at odds with even the extreme thinking of genocidal Nazis. And some of them even make the case for the inferiority of Jews, which is downright bizarre. Why are Jews hated? Because, frankly, they are superior! They outcompete White Gentiles. They kick our ass even in a fair fight. But no one can accept that, so everyone says they must be cheating.
The roots of US Nordicist hatred of Meds and pegging them as inferior are rooted in US society, not in Europe. This land was settled by Nordics. To the south were Meds, and we always looked down on those Spics.
Later, Meds came in and even Dinarics and Slavs, all very poor, and Nordics were disgusted by them and felt that they were inferior. Later as they assimilated into US society, this was shown to be nonsense. US Nordicism is not rooted in empiricism but in the specifics of US intraracial White conflict and is particular to the US only.
I never understood Nazi hatred of Slavs. Supposedly it was because they were a Slave Race, that is, they were always getting enslaved by others.
Among US Nordicists now, I seldom hear anything against Slavs. Now and then a really extreme one will say that they are non-Whites because they have a bit of Asiatic in them. But that Asiatic is only ~3% in most Slavs. Nazi hatred of Slavs seems to have been abandoned even by US neo-Nazis.
I realized the best strategy with wns and nordicists is just to blow them off. I don’t even follow them. My version of racialism based off of anthropological science is the only legit version and all others are inferior.
So I don’t know what they “think of Slavs” but it seems idiotic Russians think they are SS material.
“And some of them even make the case for the inferiority of Jews, which is downright bizarre. Why are Jews hated? Because, frankly, they are superior! They outcompete White Gentiles. They kick our ass even in a fair fight. But no one can accept that, so everyone says they must be cheating.”
Ashkenazi Jews are inferior in terms of building/maintaining civilization because they can only exist and thrive in the civilizations of others. And when they do manage to embed themselves too deeply in a civilization in terms of power/money/influence, that civilization starts to decline, decay, and rot from within because of too much Jewish influence and power. Ashkenazi Jews feed on the decay and rot that they themselves often cause and promote.
The average Ashkenazi Jew might be more verbally intelligent and literate than the average Euro-White, but that doesn’t make them totally superior. If you completely and permanently separated Ashkenazi Jews away from other groups they would soon begin to sink in to semi-barbarism, wither away, and tear each other apart just like Blacks do when they are totally segregated – again, Jews can only exist and thrive in the nations of non-Jews…thus they are nothing more than parasites who feed on the economic and cultural lifeblood of non-Jews.
Ashkenazi Jews are only outcompete non-Jews (especially Whites) because they are an ‘invasive species’ that are able to super-thrive in cultures (especially White cultures) which have not evolved the necessary defenses to contain them. Jews do not “fight fair” as you say…they utilize ethnic networking as well as other collective ethnic strategies while discouraging other groups (especially Whites) from using those same strategies. Jews could never thrive or succeed in other similarly collective cultures like those found in the Near East or Asia…because those cultures can effectively contain Jews with similar counter-strategies. Jews only succeed in White cultures because Whites are so naturally individualistic, atomized, and non-collectivistic – thus very unorganized on a macro-racial level. White collectivism/White cooperationism (AKA White nationalism) as well as anti-Semitism are healthy, natural, and even instinctive reactions by Whites who seek to check the rampant and uncontrolled growth of the Jewish ‘invasive species.’
Moreover, Jews again prove their inferiority by their general lack of cultural profundity. Their ‘religion’ of Judaism is nothing more than a seriously racist/supremacist blood-cult, with many of the theistic details of their religion actually stolen from other groups. Jews are not at all noted for any kind of true high culture, and what culture they do rarely manage to create is so often just a pitiful rehashing of ideas stolen from other groups. Left to their own devices, all Jewish culture eventually sinks to the lowest and most base anti-cultural levels. (seen American TV or watched a Hollywood movie lately?) All of the major Jewish accomplishments by Jews in the last few centuries were all made in White societies using the base knowledge of Whites, White languages, and in a wholly White milieu – it is very unlikely that Jews would’ve been able to accomplish those things if had not been living in stable/civilized White societies and building on the knowledge base that had already been created by Whites.
Jews are also inferior to Whites because White nations do not need Jews in order to continue to exist and thrive, while Jews desperately need Whites and White nations in order to keep existing and thriving.
Again, I guarantee that if you completely and permanently separated Jews away from all other groups (especially Whites) and forced them to try and build their own nation/culture/economy, they would fail miserably…as parasites, if forced to live amongst their own kind they would slowly ‘starve’ from the lack of ‘blood’ that they need to exist.
Forgot to mention…in addition to the undeniable socio-cultural inferiority of Jews, they are also physically inferior as well. Jews tend to be sickly and weak, and they very often have repulsively ugly faces and bodies. Even minimal physical attractiveness is extremely rare amongst Jews unless they have recently mixed with non-Jews, and even in those cases it is only the non-Jewish genes that make them halfway attractive.
The minds of many Jews are sick and ugly too, with all forms of mental illness, insanity, hysteria, egoism, and so forth common amongst them. Jews generally have horrible manners – they are often pushy, arrogant, mean, devious, suspicious, pessimistic, needlessly domineering/aggressive, and soullessly materialistic/greedy. They always try to set themselves up as supreme managers/leaders but sorely lack all of the qualities necessary for good managers/leaders – no wonder that everything that comes under Jewish management/leadership eventually rots away because of widespread Jewish corruption and greed. Even their generally above-average intelligence (which even then is commonly of the superficial/journalistic/wordy kind) is not nearly enough to make up for all of the negative mental qualities which are so rampant among them.
The only reason I mentioned nazis is because the original poster did.
It’s important what Nazis think because the ugly truth is that probably 80% of US White Nationalists are still NAZIS of one type or another. 80% of them are Nordicists, and Nordicism is simply Nazism. That’s all it is. That’s why it’s poison. WPWW at least has some empirical backing, but most US WN’s are too stupid and petty to ever get behind it.
My opinion is that Blacks would not benefit at all from Black segregation. Forget it. A Black a block. Spread em out and civilize em. Integration is good for Blacks. Segregation just creams them. I am an integrationist!
I’m dubious whether integration benefits Whites that much. It probably doesn’t. But Whites don’t have the right to sentence Blacks to deadly segregation. Segregation KILLS Black people.
You say that your movement needs to get outside of supremacism, but face it, that’s what it’s all about. Take away the supremacism and there’s nothing left. For most WN, White nationalism is just a pretty name for White supremacism. White supremacism got to be a dirty phrase, so they gave themselves a pretty name to make themselves seem less offensive. Same thing with racialism.
Almost all WN are simply racists. The whole thing is just a hardcore racist movement. But racism is a bad word, so they can’t admit that they are racists. Instead they put in a 3 letter infix and become “racialists,” which is so confusing that no one knows what it is. Race realists? Same thing. Most of them are just racists. Probably 95%. Just another pretty word for racist.
White separatist? Same thing. What’s that? What’s a White separatist? You say it and people furrow their brow. They’re really White supremacists, but they call themselves White separatists because it sounds somewhat harmless.
And these guys carp about Jews being dissemblers!
Well, whenever Blacks segregate together, you get this horrible thing called a ghetto. There’s usually a tipping point of 30-40% Black where things really start to go downhill. The best-behaved Blacks are living integrated as minorities in mostly White or mostly Hispanic communities. This city is 4% Black, and some are pretty ghetto. But even then, a lot of those are trying.
I just know these Blacks would be so fucked if this city was even 30% Black. As a small minority around here, the semi-ghetto Blacks have Hispanics and some Whites as examples. These people tend to act a lot better than ghetto Blacks. The examples of good behavior are good for these Blacks and stimulates them to get their shit together more, try harder, act better and not be so ghetto.
I honestly think that these Blacks around compete with the Whites and Hispanics and try to be better than them. There is something to be said for giving people a little kick.
Towns that have low numbers of Blacks are often pretty functional. Even Detroit did pretty well at about 15-20% Black. It wasn’t that much worse than when it was heavily White. Now look it. It’s a Black segregated city, a clusterfuck for Blacks and really for everyone else too. Segregation for Blacks will be a death knell for them.
“Meds are like these sort of eccentric artist – genius types who would rather enjoy life than be workaholics. Nords are workaholic, morose to serious, but they tend to lack inventiveness and creativity. ”
I don’t know if patents per capita have more to do with inventiveness or hard work, but:
Norway, Sweden, Iceland are in the top 11. Spain is at 39, Italy 51. Botswana, Gambia, and almost all of the ‘stans beat ‘inventive’ Italy.
Ok, that’s interesting. OTOH, Gambia and Botswana have not created a civilized society, and Spain and Italy have. And I think that Spain and Italy have also created a more civilized society than any of the Stans. Creating a civilized society is an important thing to do. Spain and Italy are civilized countries. Most of the world is failing at this very basic task.
Isn’t cultural borrowing ubiquitous?
I like southern Italians. Theirs is a more enjoyable culture, then their dour neighbors to the North. Having prefaced my criticism with a compliment, I can now mention that they really do lack erudition. My gf and all her brothers are all dumb asses.
Yes, I love Southern Italians. In this part of California, the only Whites with any numbers are Meds. Meds form the White ruling class in this area, which is agriculturally-based. I’m not sure how that came about, but I suspect it is time and an old-boy network. Anyway, Portuguese, Spaniards, Southern Italians, Greeks, Armenians and Slavs run the show around here.
That’s the White ruling class, and they do a damn fine job of it too. They are also the intellectual elite around here. When you meet a Southern Italian around here, they are generally smarter and more intellectual than the average Hispanic. They definitely have more knowledge and more interest in knowledge.
Hispanics have no interest in learning or knowledge whatsoever. It’s simply not important to them. It’s not they are stupid; they are just willfully ignorant. The Blacks around here have much greater intellectual strivings than the Hispanics.
I mean, when you see an Italian in this town, you want to run up and hug them. They’re the cream of the crop, and at least it’s not another illegal alien, or ignorant Hispanic-American. In this town, the notion that Meds are some kind of horribly inferior White people is ridiculous.
I’m in no position to through stones at my gf’s brothers, because they all have a lot more money then me, and they all think I’m a dumb ass.
You always throw in Armenians with the Meds. Iv’e long wondered about there original stock. They make Great chess players. I classify them as an unknown.
Actually, Armenians are a thoroughly different stock called Armenids. But they are sort of Med like in their general behavior and appearance, so I toss them in. As far as their stock, they are Armenids. I guess they’ve always been Armenids. I actually think that these are the original proto-Whites who moved out of the Caucasus and into Europe.
Then all of the other White subraces developed from this original stock – Norics, Dinarics, Alpines, Slavs, Meds, Nordics, etc. They’re like the original White people. And I think that they brought the White language – the Indo-European language – with them. They’re like our oldest White grandparents. That’s why they look so different – because they are these ancient Whites and we are just newer models.
I like Armenids a lot, but they are kind of like Jews. Some of them are really paranoid and they have that Jewish attitude where they automatically assume that you are an anti-Semite / anti-Armenian and you are with the people who tried to genocide them. Some are belligerent and in your face like stereotypical Jews too.
But they are also warm, friendly, collectivist, gregarious, welcoming, etc. They are also sort of Old World. Around here there is still a lot of pressure to marry another Armenian and many Armenians still speak the language. They hear that I’m not married, and a lot of the older ones right away say they are going to find a woman (Armenian woman) for me.
A lot of the Iranians around here are actually Armenians. I think Armenian chicks are hot, too. Some of them anyway.
The ruling class around this city is all Med. If you meet a White person, especially if they are civilized and have some money, in many cases, they are a Med, typically Portuguese, Spaniard, Southern Italian, Armenian, Greek, or sometimes a Yugoslav. That’s the old White farming ruling class around here. If you go up in the mountains, things are a lot different, but there are still a fair number of Meds, especially Portuguese.
Let’s see… where to begin here.
I’ve read Madison Grant’s book, The Passing of the Great Race – hugely entertaining book with all the maps and shit, and it did help get the 1924 immigration act passed, but still it’s mostly rubbish. In fact, the whole division of whites into Nordics, Alpines, and Meds has always been highly problematic and makes basically no sense these days in light of what we know about the genetics of Europeans.
Anyway, if you read what Grant wrote, he basically thought that the Nordics were the ultra-badass warriors and leaders, the Meds were the artistic and intellectual types, but the Alpines (= central and eastern Europeans) were the lowest of the bunch, being fit only for peasant labor. Grant argued that in countries like Germany, it was the minority Nordic element that contributed all the good stuff. The only problem is, this doesn’t appear to be true – I’ve never seen a good supporting argument, and in any case if you look at pictures of prominent Germans in any field, you don’t really find a lot of blond, blue-eyed, long-skulled types. IQs of European countries appear to be pretty damn close. Also, countries like Sweden are not actually known for their cultural output. So I certainly don’t see much evidence for Nordic *intellectual* superiority.
As far as Ancient Greece and India are concerned… it’s hard to say. The matter of the origin and spread of the Indo-European languages is still a tricky one. I imagine that the original IE homeland was somewhere in Ukraine (which is where it’s usually placed) and probably had a mix of “Nordic” and “Alpine” physical types, which (at least partially) accounts for the blond hair and blue eyes observed in some of the far-flung locations where IE speakers migrated to.
Anyway, Nordicism is a weird topic and I kinda see why, contrary to your claim that American WN is hugely obsessed with it, most racialists have dropped the subject. Not a lot of white people are really very “Nordic” (I’m blue-eyed and blond and even I don’t make the grade), so the whole topic just makes white people feel insecure for not looking like Max von Sydow or Vendela Kirsebom (who seem to be the closest to the Nordic physical ideal that anyone can come up with, although Vendela might actually be part Turkish). Some “Meds” get thoroughly warped out by this shit and have a huge complex over it.
The homeland of PIE was in the Near East in a region from southeastern Ukraine west through the area between the Caspian and Baltic up into southwest Kazakhstan and then north up to Samara in the Mid-Volga south of Tatarstan and Bashkortostan. I’m not sure what those people are, but some of them are Kalmyks. That region is just north of the Caucasus. There were some Christian warrior types in there who used to attack Jews a lot but their name escapes me. I doubt if Nordics and Alpine types even existed back in those days.
Grant’s comments about Meds and Nordics line up closely with the Nazis, including the contempt for Slavs. Clearly, Grant felt that Meds were a highly-evolved race.
Truth is, most of the WN’s who come to this site are Nordics and Nordicists. When I go to Amren, 80% of the posters there are Nordics and Nordicism is very common over there. You almost never see an Italian, a Greek or an Iberian. If you look at the leaders of the WN and neo-Nazi movement, they are almost all Nordic types. How many are Italians?
If you to Majority Rights, VNN, Occidental Dissent and some of the WN forums, you note that they are all Nordicist.
Reader: “Not a lot of white people are really very “Nordic” (I’m blue-eyed and blond and even I don’t make the grade), so the whole topic just makes white people feel insecure for not looking like Max von Sydow or Vendela Kirsebom…”
Hey Reader: if you have any of the following Nordic features – light eyes, light hair, light skin, taller than the global average in terms of height, and a long (dolicephalic) skull – you are likely of predominately Nordic extraction. Just because you or most Whites in general (are you an American?) don’t have ALL of those stereotypical Nordic features does not mean that you or most Whites don’t have a lot of ethnically Nordic ancestry. Very few people on Earth aside from totally unmixed Scandinavians or other unmixed Northern Europeans have ALL of the above-mentioned Nordic features. As I wrote in a recent comment here on this blog: “ANYONE on Earth who has non-brown eyes, hair that isn’t black or very dark brown, and is of above-average height (in global terms) has some fairly recent Nordic ancestry in their background. Nordic physical features/appearance exists on a continuum from the very Nordic (recent or present totally ‘pure’ Nordic ancestry) to the barely Nordic (Nordic ancestry from a long time ago).”
Many people who are mostly Nordic might, for example, be shorter than average or have brown eyes, but could have extremely blond hair along with a very long skull. Or someone might be very tall and blue eyed, but have dark brown hair and olive skin. But as stated, Nordic physical features/appearance exists along a continuum because of the major mixing between all of the White ethnic groups that has occurred within the overall White race.
Again I ask: are you an American? It is tricky in terms of the population of the British Isles along with the North Americans, Australians, New Zealanders, etc who descend from those British people because the British Isles was originally populated by an ancient Mediterranean (i.e., totally non-Nordic) stock. However, Nordics have been invading/immigrating to the British Isles for thousands of years and breeding with the ancient Meds who lived there…see Grant’s series of maps at the following link and pay especially close attention to the slow progression of Nordic settlement in the British Isles: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Passing_of_the_Great_Race
The Nords who invaded and settled in the British Isles chose to breed extensively with the ancient Meds who lived there rather than just exterminate them all. As a result, you have a current British population that is a mix between the ‘darkest’ Whites (the ancient Med natives) and the ‘whitest’ Whites (the Nords who colonized there) – though the most westerly and northerly portions of the UK are where the Nordic features predominate in the British Isles (for obvious reasons). Thus you’ll commonly find Brits (and thus Americans, Australians, etc…wherever the British colonized) who have mixed/intermediate features between Meds and Nords like shortish people with dark brown hair yet blue eyes, tall height and long skull with darkish skin and brown eyes, etc.
Extremely White (i.e., Nordic) features are very-VERY recessive in a genetic sense, so much so that they can almost totally disappear from people or groups after even 1-2 generations of mixing with other races or even the darkest White ethnic groups like Southern Italians, Arabized Spaniards, Jews, or Turkic Greeks. This extreme genetic recessivity is why it’s so important to protect the Nordic DNA from further intrusion.
The ethnically White mixed makeup of most Brits is easily observable. For instance, in college there were at least 2 separate professors in the academic department that I majored who were immigrants here to America from the UK. I took classes with both professors. One of them was extremely Nordic looking, the other was obviously very Mediterranean – but as stated, both were native Brits. The Nordic one was very tall, blond, blue-gray eyed, long faced/skulled, and light skinned, while the Med one was short and squat, dark brown haired, kind of swarthy, round-skulled (best I could tell), though he did have dark green eyes and a reddish beard. I remember noting these specific details because it was around the time I was getting in to racialism (2-3 years ago) and wondering…why such the major physical ethnic differences between these native Brits? You see a lot of this in the USA as well because of all the British people who settled here – it’s further complicated by these already ethnically mixed British-Americans who then commence to mix with the other White immigrants who have come to the USA like MANY kinds of Alpines, Slavs, Balts, Dinarics, Semitic Jews (Jews aren’t White of course, but they are considered to pass for White in the USA), and of course numerous other Med/Southern Euro/Arabized White varieties like Italians, etc.
To be honest, there’s no honest debate with the Nordicists because the majority of them had their minds made up and won’t change even when presented with facts, they rather cling to their lies and myths. It’s not just WNs, white supremacists, but also paleoconservatives as well. Many of the paleoconservatives such as the late Samuel Francis are Nordicists at heart.
We all talk about current prejudice, hatred, and discrimation directed against the usual suspects: Black, Asian, Hispanic, Native Americans. But what about Jews, Middle Eastern people, Muslims, Portuguese, Romanians, Armenians, Albanians, Greeks, Southern Italians, Spaniards, North Africans, Turks, Gypsies(Roma), etc? They have stories to tell and to tell the truth, they’re more discriminated against in the South, the Rockies, and the Midwest than on the East and West coasts.
What say you?
Yes, that’s right La Reyna. I notice that all of these Paleocons are Nordic people. Where are the Paleocon Meds, Alpines, Caucasids, Iranids, Norics, Slavs, Dinarics, Aremids? They essentially don’t even exist at all.
But what about Jews, Middle Eastern people, Muslims, Portuguese, Romanians, Armenians, Albanians, Greeks, Southern Italians, Spaniards, North Africans, Turks, Gypsies(Roma), etc?
Yes, I’m not sure. That may be a thing of the past? It was definitely going on for a while here in the US. It would be interesting to see if there is still much prejudice against these folks. I know most of the White nationalists hate almost all these people. I think some might like Romanians, and some are ok with Italians. In general, they think that Spaniards, Portuguese, S. Italians, Middle Easterners, Greeks, North Africans are mongrels at best, and part-nigger*, part-mud non-Whites at worst.
Albanians are always referred to as non-Whites, for unknown reasons. I think it’s because many are Muslims! Turks are said to be non-Whites, but they’re as White as Jews, and 35% of them are as White as a Russian. I think once again it’s because they are Muslims.
There was quite a stir on Stormfront when 350 Armenians were thrown off for the crime of being “non-White.”
It might be interesting to hear some recent stories of discrimination against any of these folks in the US.
I’m just telling you, in California in general, you don’t see a lot of Italians. Around here, you see a LOT. By California standards. I’ve already met a few Italians. You also see them all together in groups wearing “Italy” t-shirts. There’s a family called “Gallo”. Every heard of them? Gallo Wine. They practically run this whole area around here. Sure, there are non-Med Whites around here, but you don’t run into them that much. The Meds have the money. It’s old farming money. I know the White ruling class around here. It’s old farming money, and it’s heavy Med. In this area, in particular Spaniard, Portuguese and Italian. Note that they did not have a marker for Spaniard? There are tons of Armenians too, but they are more down by Fresno. And a lot of the Hispanic money around here are White Hispanics with deep ties to Spain. If you ask them, they give their nationality as Mexican, but then you ask them some more, and they say that they are Spaniards. They go back to Spain a lot too. Any Nordicist in this town would be run out on his ass by the local Whites.
PS. 2.8% Italian is over 10% of the Whites in this town. That’s a lot for California. We don’t have many Italians here.
AFAICT, Nordicists consider the Croatian Dinarics to be sufficiently White, along with Northern Italians. They hate Southern Italians, not Northerners.
Of course there are Jews on the moderate end of WN.
Go down the roster of authors on Occidental Quarterly. 80% Nords, or more. # of Meds? Zero.
You think it’s a coincidence that Don Black, David Duke, Hal Turner, Kevin MacDonald, Alex Linder, Kevin Strom,William Pierce, Jared Taylor and all the rest are Nordics? Even Sam Francis and Pat Buchanan are Nordics?
You are correct. I was wrong that only Meds have any #’s around here. That’s clearly not the case. I always want people to keep me on my toes.
Okay, we all know that the ancient Greeks and Romans did not look like Owen Wilson.
But let’s not go overboard in terms of describing them as ultra dark, swarthy, etc.
They were not Nordic, but they were white. The former is not sufficient for the ladder.
Look, let’s just say that both Meds and Nordics have much to be proud of, and have both produced great civilizations, some later than others.
This pissing contest is growing tiresome.
=P Europe was a potential superpower: the EU’s large population, large economy (the EU has the largest economy in the world), low inflation rates, the unpopularity and perceived failure of US foreign policy in recent years, and certain EU member states’ high quality of life (especially when measured in terms such as hours worked per week, health care, social services, Andrew Reding also takes the future EU enlargement into account. An eventual future accession of the rest of Europe, the whole of Russia, and Turkey, would not only boost the economy of the EU, but it would also increase the EU’s population to about 800 million, which he considers almost equal to that of India or China. The EU is qualitatively different from India and China since it is enormously more prosperous and technologically advanced
-However thanks to mediterranean countries like Spain, Italy or France the european union is in crisis =P ,mediterranean countries are ruining Europe and killing its potential; with this i am more than convinced that chinese, korean and japanese will rule the world ,as of 2010 Chinese cinema is the third largest film industry by number of feature films produced annually. China’s box-office receipts by the first quarter of 2012 has surpassed Japan in box-office receipts by becoming the second-largest in the world, i feel very proud now to be a huge east asian admirer, the world will be east asian
The newest line is that “Spain and Portugal both have an average IQ of 92”.
I have seen no study to corroborate this. Lynn found (on British norms, with 1 SD=15 IQ points), 99 and 95 respectively.
Ireland has an IQ of 92 per Lynn, which they might sillily attribute to Med genes (Iberian). However, wouldn’t it go lower than 92?
there’s no evidence of that, AT ALL.
we need a study of more swarthy Irish versus lighter Irish. That would destroy an inkling of this thought process. Even if swarthy Irish did worse, i would still be indirect evidence as compared to non-Celtic Portugal’s IQ itself.