Repost from the old site. A very interesting post speculating about the peopling of the Indian subcontinent, with lots of pics of Indian racial types and attempts to categorize them.
The peopling of India is a mystery. As my Indian doctor told me, India is as old as dirt. There are various narratives in India, but none of them make any sense, as usual.
Hindus believe something like that Hindus have always been in India, so if you say anything scientifically different, the Hindu fundamentalist boneheads are going to freak out and probably even threaten you. Wonderful people, and surely as stupid as any Christian or Muslim fundamentalist anywhere.
Within India, there is a lot of debate about whether or not there was an Aryan invasion that conquered the indigenous Dravidians, relegated them to the South of India, and imposed a ferociously racist Hindu caste system on the darker Dravidians – with Whiter Brahmins and higher castes being on top and darker Dravidian types being put in the lower castes.
Actually, caste in India is quite complex. High caste Indians from South India are often quite dark, and lower caste Indians from the North can be quite light. However, there is a general tendency for higher castes to be lighter skinned. In particular, for Indian women, Whiter has always been better, and Indian women have been trying to lighten their skins for as long as anyone can remember.
It is also interesting that, although inter-caste marriage was supposedly forbidden and enforced with serious penalties, the Brahmins have been getting progressively darker down through the centuries. Gee, how did that happen? Race mixing! Horror of horrors!
The Aryan Invasion theory is actually most popular with Dalits or untouchables. Supposedly they had a paradise down there until these evil White Aryans invaded and imposed evil caste Hinduism on the natives. In truth, Hinduism may be as old as India itself.
Surely, it seems to date back before any Aryan invasion. It seems to be the case that the Aryans may have superimposed caste on native Indian Hinduism though, and caste probably did not exist in the original religion.
The Aryan Invasion theory is also popular with White nationalists, see they see it as normal that Whiter folks should declare themselves superior to, and treat like shit, darker folks. The notion that there are two separate races in India, darker, inferior Dravidians and Whiter, superior Aryans is often added to this. In truth, all Indians are best seen as one coherent group.
I think it’s pretty hilarious that so many White nationalist morons say that this kid is not White. With a constricted mindset like that, WN is doomed for sure. Look real hard at this kid and tell me he’s not White. This is a Pashtun kid (with a non-human kid on his shoulders) from northern Pakistan – specifically, the area where the Pakistani Taliban and Al Qaeda leadership is thought to be hiding.
She’s not White? Says who? Says White nationalists, that’s who. Another interesting Pashtun from northwest Pakistan. This is where you find the most European-looking types in the area. They live in Afghanistan and Pakistan, with the greatest concentration in Nuristan, Kunar, Dir and Chitral. This girl could easily be an Italian.
A young Pakistani Pashtun girl with her little sister. I understand that these women are quite beautiful, but in this region, they go into purdah, or isolation, at puberty, and pretty much no one ever gets to see them anymore. They probably spend most of their time after that in a burka or some other stupid bag thing. Too bad. Nowadays, these poor girls are going to even have a hard time going to school.
An Afghan man from Chitral, where the most European types can be found. Take off the turban, put him on any street in America, and he’s just another White dude. I think that bin Laden may be hiding in the area of Chitral and across the border in Kunar and Nuristan, though Dir in Pakistan is the best bet of all.
Although he appears to be red-haired, he has actually died his beard with henna. I think this guy is from Afghanistan. Pashtuns describe themselves as Aryans, and say that they are the base that the European Whites came from. No one really knows, but the White European type that we know today probably came into existence with the spread of Indo-European across the continent 8,000 years ago.
White skin only shows up in Europe 9,000 years ago, and at 11,000 years ago, Europeans look something like Middle Easterners, so maybe the Aryans were the original Europeans. Who knows. Unfortunately, Hitler’s Nazi regime was roaming around in these parts searching for the original White man or original Aryan or whatever.
Hence the word Aryan, mangled by Nazis to idiotically mean Nordic, has fallen into disgrace. But it deftly describes all of these North Indid types we are looking at in this section.
Another Afghan Pashtun. Unfortunately, it is the Pashtuns who are leading the insurgency against the US in Afghanistan.
Interestingly, the Brahmins themselves have totally rejected this theory lately, so if someone vociferously rejects the Aryan invasion theory, they are probably high-castes or Hindu fundamentalists. The motivation is unsure, but they seem to be denying that caste is a bad thing or that it was imposed by evil invaders.
This is often leavened with dollops of caste is a good thing, or caste is normal, or caste hardly exists anymore talk, or other pro-caste propaganda. I have yet to meet a high-caste Indian who will denounce caste. If you ever meet one, please introduce them to me.
Recent research on the question is difficult, but there is a suggestion that an Aryan invasion may have occurred. Although all Indians are one major ethnic group, higher castes seem more related to Europeans and lower castes seem more related to Asians. There is also a northwest – southeast cline, with those towards the northwest being more European and those towards the southeast becoming more Asian.
Nevertheless, the best evidence is that Indians are a coherent race (they cluster together on genetic tests and there is no way to winnow out Aryans and Dravidians via genes) and they have been evolving, more or less in situ, with few outside inputs, for a good 15-20,000 years. Let’s call it 17,000 years. Where did the Indians come from prior to 17,000 years ago? Evidence suggests the Middle East.
What is interesting about this theory is that we know that Indians look like Aborigines until about 8,000 years ago, when they begin to transition to Caucasians. So does this mean that the proto-Indians of the Middle East were Australoid types? You tell me. Racially, peoples of either the Middle East or Europe are poorly known at such an early date.
Indians and Dravidians are outside Caucasoids (but not by much) on the Cavalli-Sforza genetic chart below, but we have to lump them into one of the big three, so to Caucasians they go.
After all, the European racial type is only known from about 9,000 years ago or so.
Just prior, they seem to have resembled Middle Easterners and way back, they have had dark skin and resembled Masai or Tutsis from Central Africa. On many genetic charts, Indians of both the northwest and the southeast tend to ride the divide between Asians and Caucasians very closely.So, while Indians are Caucasians for sure, they are starting to get towards Asians. North Indians such as Punjabis have 10-15% recent Asian genes to boot.
There are some ancient peoples in India who may represent the earliest Indians of all. Most Indians probably don’t want to believe this, as these folks are tribals who, while outside the caste system, are widely discriminated against.
This map shows the location of many of the obscure tribes described below that may be remnants of the first Indians. This old map uses racial classifications that are no longer used today. It is written in a foreign language, possibly German. Although it sounds creepy today, German scientists did a lot of good work involving the races of man in the early part of the 20th Century.
The notion that any investigation of race may lead to the Nazi catastrophe has curtailed most such research today, but intrepid folks like yours truly continue to venture forth where fools fear to tread.
Nagas of NE Asia, thought to be perhaps the original people of the area. The guy on the right looks Papuan, for Chrissake (Or does he?), while the guy on the left looks sort of SE Asian, but not quite. I put the Naga into a Tibetan Northeast Indian Race within Southeast Asians, but the situation is confused as to whether or not they should be lumped in with Tibetans or split off. If they were early Indian Australoids, they then bred in heavily with Tibetan types and got genetically swamped.
A nice looking young Naga girl. She almost looks Amerindian, especially Central American Amerindian, but that’s just convergence. Maybe a hint of SE Asian?
Indian Caucasians are clearly some of the most ancient existing Caucasians, except for the Kalash.
More Kalash. A woman and her son. The general theory is that the Kalash came from the Caucasus. If the Kalash indeed are the remnants of the most ancient Caucasians, the origin in the Caucasus is interesting because the Caucasus plays a major role in the formation of the Caucasian race as a nexus.
Other major nexuses are India, the Middle East and North Africa. Cavalli-Sforza suggests that the oldest Caucasians were two parts Asian and one part Black, this going back 40-45,000 years in Southern Russia (= Caucasus?). It is interesting to note that many Kalash have some Asian features. My theory is that the two Asian parts of the proto-Caucasians were Ainu types and the one Black part was a Masai-Tutsi type, but hey, I’m guessing.
There is evidence that Indians go back 44-63,000 years in India. Going back that far, they probably looked something like Aborigines, but no one is sure. The people along the coast were probably Negrito types.
Nagas of Northeast India. Thought to be possibly be a remnant of the original people of Northeast India. They have a lot of Asian admixture. This one looks Tibetan. Genetically, they cluster with Tibetans.
More strange Naga people. The Naga have been fighting for a separate state for a long time now called Nagaland, and I support that struggle 100%. India has no right to any of NE India. India, go away.
The Indian proto-Caucasians seem to have bred in somewhat with Australoid types in India, but this is not at all clear except in the case of Tamils, who share skull affinities with Australoids. The general theory is that Indian skulls look like Aborigines from 8,000-40,000 years ago. Up until 5,000 years ago, Indians are quite muscular (robust), but then they become more gracile.
There are skulls going back 35,000 years in Sri Lanka, and more in Uttar Pradesh going back 45,000 years. According to one theory, Australia may have been settled from India. Tamil skulls do look Australoid, and resemble Papuans, Andamans, Senoi and Semang. There are stone tools in Sri Lanka dating back 22,000 years that are similar to the tools in Australia and Indonesia.
It is thought that these tools in the latter two countries came from India. The Veddas are the original peoples of Sri Lanka and predate the Tamils and Sinhalese, both of whom came about 2,000 years ago. However, in contrast to the India to Aborigine Theory, Vedda skulls do not currently cluster with Aborigine skulls, nor do Andaman Islander skulls.
Do look at many of the photos of Indians on this page who may be related to the original Australoids, possibly Negritos, of India.
An odd looking Nord Indid Banjara-Lambadi-Gypsy speaking a North Indian dialect. This woman is from Karnatiman, which is somewhere in India. Maybe the ancient proto-Caucasians of 20,000 years ago in India looked like this.
I do not think we see much left genetically of the original Indian Australoids.
A Yanadi girl from India. This photo was taken from a Black nationalist site where they were screaming about how these people are ancient Blacks. Party all you want over your fantasy. She is more Aborigine than anything else, if you look very closely. For the Black appearance, more convergence. Lots of folks of various races look Black, or Negroid. So what. Doesn’t prove relation.
Black or Negroid appearance, like Caucasoid phenotype or appearance, is probably just another endpoint for recent human facial evolution. Many races may end up either Negroid or Caucasoid appearing on a micro level.
The ancient Australoids of India now genetically and even (except in the case of the Tamils) anthropologically look like the neighboring Caucasian groups; we may be able to see older traces, but probably just that – traces. See these photos for those traces.
Super-commenter Joe Stickler calls these folks Indo-Melanids and calls them are proto-morphers (sort of anthropological shape-shifters). He notes that they are strongly stabilized and that they are certainly not Australoids.
A Vedda man from India. The Veddoids are thought to be one of the endpoints of Negrito evolution, in this case the remains of the original Indians. Veddoid Tamils do resemble Negritos, Papuans, the Senoi, the Semang and the Andaman Islanders and others in skulls. However, Vedda skulls do not resemble Aborigine skulls.
I swear I know a Chicano guy who looks a lot like this.
A Mardia Gond male from India. He could well be a descendant of an original Indian Negrito group. Note the very primitive hunter-gatherer lifestyle. The Mardia reside in Central India, south of the Gonds.
Indians have been evolving in situ, pretty much, without a lot of outside inputs, for about 17,000 years.
The people of India are pretty closely related to each other, and form a compact and fairly unified group.
The Indian proto-Caucasians probably came from the Middle East to India about 20,000 years ago.
Originally, the Indian proto-Caucasians may have looked like Arabs, but this is not known.
There were Australoid types present in the Indian subcontinent when these new Caucasian people came to India 20,000 years BP, and they looked like Australian Aborigines.
Another odd looking tribal woman, this one from Goa. The ring through the nose thing must be a sign of being a married woman. Once again, I look and think, ancient Caucasian, but who knows. There is somewhat of an Amerindian appearance, but this is more synchronicity. This is another Nord Indid Banjara – Lambadi – Gypsy speaking a North Indian dialect.
The Indian Australoids were bred out or genetically swamped by the Caucasians from the Middle East and they have now just merged into Indian Caucasians.
Very happy Irular kids in India. Once again, I think I am seeing some kids that look like Aborigines in this photo. Another possible remnant of the first Indians. The Irular are members of the South Dravidian Race, along with the Sinhalese, the Lambada, the Izhava, the Kurumba, the Nayar, the Toda, the Kota, the Malayaraya and the Tamils. This race, along with the South Indian Race, are probably the remains of the earliest Indians.
The Irulars live in the far south of India, southwest of the Yanadi.
More Irulars of far southern India. The Irulars are a scheduled tribe and hence are subject to affirmative action measures, which are quite controversial in India. They are very dark-skinned, as you can see.
A Malid Panyer woman from India. Blacks love to claim these folk, but really the connection is probably to the Aborigines of Australia. Big difference. Or she could well be the remains of the Indian Negritos. In fact, early racial scholars Eickstedt put them and the Gonds in with the Negritos of the Andaman Islands. The Malids live in far southwestern India, near the state of Karnataka and west of the Irular. Joe Stickler* describes Malids as a mostly unspecialized and primitive Veddoid type.
A very primitive-looking Kanikar man with a loincloth and a bow and arrow. Note the woolly hair typical of Veddoids. The face seems to have an Australoid appearance also. Early racial scholars classed these people as Negrito types. Probably among the remains of the first Indians. The Kanikar reside at the very southern tip of India. Joe Stickler* describes Kanikars as a mostly unspecialized and primitive Veddoid type.
A Panya Gond woman, probably one of the remains of the first humans to populate India. Note the woolly hair and Negrito appearance. Gonds reside in central India. Joe Stickler* describes Panyas as a mostly unspecialized and primitive Veddoid type.
Indians are also one of the most diverse Caucasian groups, as they tend to ride on the edge between Asians and Whites all the way through, from Punjabi in the north to Tamil in the South.
Chenchu kids, from a scheduled tribes in South India. Scheduled tribes are completely outside of the caste system, whatever that means.
A beautiful North Indian girl. As you can see, folks in the North can also be quite dark. India is a mysterious continent.
*A Sri Lankan commenter on the site with extensive knowledge of Indian racial types.
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393 thoughts on “The Peopling of India”
As if its a quality to look like Europeans…some Europeans are ugly as fck…some of them have big ugly noses, ugly faces, wide round faces, pink, pale skinned….Indians earn some dignity.. be proud of your looks..australoid semitic or whatever…dnt feel superior becz u look like europeans….no human is superior…for instance look at the guy that made this research… hes one ugly mofo! peace out…wahahah XD
like i said india, is truly diverse, with a billion people they dont all look the same, and india has more people in punjab and haryana then all of the population of pakistan times two, india is the most diverse country in the world where all the ancient clans of the world have melted get rich off its richs, the theory is the more north you go the more Caucasian, and the more south the more African, but people on the indian sub continent have traveled so much and have settled all over the places with its borders, so its not true, it all depends on caste systems
theres no truth what real indians really look like, the truth is theres billion of them all with different backgrounds
Many different layers in India. And intermixing makes it difficult to rigidly classify. On top of that there’s migration. Many Aryans migrated south.
I did my Nat Geog Haplo test. Guess what I got? Q1a3. Looks like I’m the wrong kind of Indian, Is that why the most impactful book I ever read was “Wounded Knee”? Or when I look at wide open spaces, I feel sad?
The simple fact is ( and Einstein said make it simple) this- the more Northwest you go in India and the higher caste you go in India the chances of getting a more Aryan person is higher.
Thats the Y DNA haplo test. Q belongs to the Native American group
why do you think they call the land Subcontinent? Because of the diversity of flora and fauna I think
The last I read, 75% of North Indians are leptorhhine ( fine nosed). 25% of Dravidians are- and amazingly the same figures for lactose tolerance. India produces the most milk in the world.
It’s interesting that India has an IQ of 82, because if you average the IQ’s of the 3 parent populations of India, you get an IQ of 82:
Austrolids: IQ 62
Non-white caucasoids: IQ 84
Whites (Aryans): IQ 99
Average: IQ 82
Of course all IQ’s outside the first world are depressed by sub-optimum nutrition.
Dang 🙂 Now that I think about it would make sense. The AVERAGE Indian has an IQ of 82! The more wealthier ones or the elites have IQs in the 90s to 100s, since they have adequate nutrition and more importantly Caucasoid blood. Probably, if the Indian conditions were bettered an average IQ of 90-93 would be reasonable. I chose this, because if we look at their Fijian and Guyanese counterparts (lower caste Indians) we can see they have achieved tremendous success.
I am from a Bengali Brahmin family (We are Barendra Brahmins whose traditional homeland is supposed to be in East Bengal, now Bangladesh). We are mainly on the shorter side – men average around 5’7″ – with only a handful who are 6’+. With very few exceptions, however, all our kith and kin have wavy, straight and shiny light brown to chocolate brown hair, hazel to green eyes and very light skin. To give a proper idea, I have been stopped by US emigration on several occasions and questioned about where I come from and I’ve had a hard time convincing them that I am actually what my passport says I am – an Indian. To take an analogy used several times on this forum, I can walk down any street in Europe without being thought of as a non-European. Our family name is Bagchi. I always thought this was an indigenous Barendra Brahmin surname but was really surprised to know recently that in Ukraine they have quite a common family name called Bagach, when I met a business associate called Vassily Bagach in the US. In Italy there seems to be a similar surname – Biagcci (the cc is pronounced with a ‘ch’ sound as in ‘Gucci’). Even among Kashmiri Brahmins there seems to be a similar surname – Bagchu. The whole thing seems much, much more than a coincidence. Maybe there was an original mother tribe somewhere with the same type of name and we all branched out several thousand years ago and went our ways in the wide world! Does anyone have any information on this? Robert, do you?
No, sorry, no info. 🙂
SO nice ,my mother in Law,s side also Baghchi,Barendra Brahman,east bengal Mymansing.They all were yellowish colour nice very Talented people,///
Dont be naive.I’ve seen you on fb and you look nothing like a euro nor does any of your ‘kith and kin’.Your phenotype is predominantly bengali which is a mix of indo-aryans and australoids.I know you’re desperate to wire a connection with the europeans.But sorry,It aint possible :d
Sorry, I do not have a FB account so you have definitely not seen me on FB. Just a suggestion: I may not be the only one in the whole world with my name. FB itself has more than 10 of my namesakes, just as, obviously, you are not the only Vishnu in the world.
Let me point you to a picture of a well known Barenda Brahmin: Google Jhumpa Lahiri… she is closer to how my extended family looks. And of course, like all Bengali Brahmins of all categories, our recorded ancestry is from Kannauj in UP. that’s why we are the Kannaujiya or Kanyakubja Brahmins. Of course our ancestors had to come from somewhere before they assembled in Kannauj in the time of ChandraGupta Vikramaditya, and that’s what I want to find out.
I completely agree with your assessment of our phenotype… any Indo-Aryan group in India in the present day cannot be without admixture with other types, considering we have coexisted for thousands of years side by side… you cannot keep your genetics segregated for that long. The australoids are all around us, so its easy to know where that part of my ancestry came from, but what about the other part that manifests itself in my eye, hair and skin colour? I’m curious to know where this particular part of me comes from. And then there is the overlapping family names occurring in many parts of the world to confound me further!
You cannot prove where an individual originates from through pictures.
Seriously … first real comment that made any sense
Stumbled upon your site and thought it to be meaningful. Read a lot on this page. Not even a single productive or useful research work. Not atleast for human race. So sad. Anyways keep going. We all meant to do something usefull or useless. I will stumble upon something meaningful.
Bye Hindu, you are banned.
The fact that you are using “Hindu” as an insult is troubling to me simply because this is 2013 and you are sounding a little bit like a bigot. And please, do not refer to the burka or to any other religious garb as a “stupid bag thing,” until you understand the meaning and importance behind it–as well as how complicated it is in what it symbolizes. Yes, the burka in some cases is forced upon women or can be a symbol of oppression. But to think that this is true in all cases is very closed-minded. It troubles me that someone who seems to have all this knowledge on the people in this area of the world can simultaneously show so little evidence of understanding or appreciation of these people and their faiths/cultures. Just because someone did not find your writing meaningful or helpful does not mean you need to respond with immature insults that say much more about you than they do about the people you are insulting.
much better than your dirty p**** rachele
I don’t see anything Italian, Greek, or Australian. You just want to look white, but you aren’t. Stop trying to use facial imaging of a few people to support your white hegemony!
All right you Afrocentrist moron, I am banning you.
I am 100 % tamil girl and our coastal community (basically fisherman caste which is a backward , non -brahmin caste) has been Catholic for the past 400 or 500 yrs since St. Francis Xavier converted our forefathers to christianity.. Most people are dark skinned but there is also quite a large number of pale to very pale skinned people. We kind of stand out when amidst other Tamil people.. Also I have been told that I have South east asian features although we have not had any such ancestry.. There are people who look like me in my community.(south east asian features I mean). I am sending u a link to my facebook profile.. Am i different or do I fall within the caucasoid, or australoid types that is common to tamils.. I am sending a link to my facebook page.
You look pretty mongoloid to me definitely not caucasoid.. You might check your lineage I guess if you do some indepth research you might originate your roots to Burma
I don’t think I have any burmese roots. Besides only my father and I have mongoloid looks whereas the rest of us (even from our extended family) including my own sister look very much Tamil. Our lineage is quite uncomplicated and there has been no history of inter-racial marriages for more than six generations. Prior to that, I have no idea. A lot of people are intrigued by my looks and so am I. I have met people who have such Mongoloid looks from my community but they are very few and far between.
If by any chance ,.you stay in the extreme North of Chennai then I am hundred percent sure there is a mongoloid influence.. I have one of my friends whose case is similar to yours., he looks pretty mongoloid and the rest of his family have typical Dravidian faces and he has no idea why he looks mongoloid. All his efforts to trace his NE asian roots have gone on to vain..Both his and your case are peculiar ones……. As far as I have researched there is minimal caucasian influence in place like Tamilnadu where most of people have australoid features and even majority the brahmins over there who are supposedly believed to be aryan race are originally australoids. The Brahmins from Tamilnadu look darker comparitively than brahmins of other states…
First of all Caucasian and white are two different words, White is only European and Caucasian is majority of the world and has nothing to do with the way you look, in matter of fact the majority of “Caucasians” are mixed (99% mixed) but the British went around calling ordinary people Caucasian to get more people of their side, today the two word are used interchangeably and Caucasian is used with the word white, so the majority of the world that really in Caucasian would not be considered Caucasian culturally, there are also Mongoloids and Negr*ids, South Asia mountains are all Mongoloid blooded, only three races
Second sun light exposure, malnourishment lightens hair, high altitudes lowers RBCs and gives a rosy glow, not genetic and often seen in kids, Henna (red and brown) is VERY common in Asia which dyes the hair red or brown, the pasthuns also like to dye their hair and wear contacts, A LOT of the hype was created by these people themselves that dont understand environmental factors, shows how they are more White suppressed then anything else, tracking down the rarest of faces seen on the internet for soooooooooooooooooo many years, same one or two pictures, people that talk about in the most and hype the most are the ones that have it the least and are the most obsessed because of society and labels
The only people that are “white” in Asia are the mixed Indians that formed their own clans and the hippies in India, other than that, the rest of Asia is is really mixed of the three races but considered Caucasian, you lucky they are even considered Caucasian, over 400 yrs on Europe rule of India, and Europeans tried to control India since People learned how to move in the Neolithic Era, most came secretly to prevent competition and take control of money and location secretly, this is when caste system appeared, they formed the “upper” castes, even the Hindu religion/gods have history in Europe and European ancient religions have history in India , DNA test proved they are the only ones with European blood then any other of South Asia, your pictures dont make up the majority
Aryan were dark featured the word was adapted by Europeans, the ancient Aryan were Persian
The same amount of rare people like in these pictures can be found in any country, I have been to all over South Asia and no they look nothing like your pictures you want us to trust
Going by region means nothing, its about the people, majoring in Anthropology i learned going by region means nothing ESPECIALLY speaking India, one of the most major countries of the world since ancient times, follow the people
Natives Pakistanis were all Buddhist or Hindu that started moving to modern day India, and Muslims from central India (where South Asian Muslims existed from) moved to Pakistan, why that region? because they wanted that region to be Muslim so Muslim relations form with the neighboring Muslim countries, majority all before records and borders not taken on purpose, and started far before anyone can think especially because of their clan like nature of the country, this is also includes Afghan Muslims coming to India in the central India region, some to work with rulers and some that were against the rebel leaders, When Islam came to India by Arabs the only people they were able to convert were poor and the “lower” caste, while the “upper” were mingling with Europeans, the Muslims were promising false claims to the poor. Then the upper India state of Kahmir got Muslim rebels and the natives all fled to the neighboring states below Kashmir, tension during 1984 caused all the Sikh of North South Asia move to Punjab, India, on top of that all the mixed Indians live in south India, where the British came from (the water ports), only the royal Europeans are the ones people know about, majority of them actually came secretly, to prevent competition and violence, Since leaders and people moved around, people that were previously under rule of so and so were now free and many people established fake names…etc to be established with a so and so clan, Bangladesh natives were also Tibetans ..etc that also moved to India and Muslims of West India moved to Bangladesh, so location DONT matter, people do
I am a anthropologist major with a PHD, trust me, European blood was only found in those mixed or established clans of modern day Indians, environmental impacts on looks…etc are not understood by these people, and i have been to every region you can think, and i know who really looks like what. Same amount of rare people can be found in every country and looks DONT determine if your white or Caucasian, not even blood because most “Caucasians” of the world are mixed with the three races, even South Europeans, a lot of the blogs on your page seem opinionated with sources that were also written by by one author…etc, even books and research has all the wrong information, only the things they wanted people to see is what is shown, for example, clans are mixed with each other and mentioned as the same people when they really are different people and stuff like mixing names, not knowing all the factors…etc
Your name is not Leah Gray now is it.
Islamic achievement is visible to any one visiting Hind there was no India lady so not much of a PhD.
The late Hasan Dhani was an expert in Indus Valley, a noted archaeologist and historian and he concluded the Indus Valley were in relation to the Ganges civilisation
1. Different ethnicity
2. Spoke different languages communicated through pictograms like the Nile civilisation, Mesopotamia, Sumeria.
3. Buried their dead
4. Ate Beef.
Across the Indus and what is Afghanistan today Bhuddist sites / temples and Jains was also prevalent, Great Persian history then came Islam when Persia fell essentially.
The Vedic influence West of the Indus was there but not significant nor a large percentage.
There is Turkic, Afghan and Central Asian linkage which proves it was this regions influence that crossed into East of the Indus.
The first Islamic influence came through companions of the prophet pbuh and this was through Bengal, through Chittagong onto China and later through sea farers and merchants.
Indus Valley was never part of the sub continent and was very much under the Persian sway and when Persia became Muslim so naturally did the Indus from the north down.
The first Arab incursion into The South of the Indus was at Sindh ( again not India ) when Arab merchant ships were attacked in the Arab Persian gulf from here on there are 2 versions of history.
People of the Indus ( Pakistan ) are far more taller, lighter in complexion because this region was influenced by its immediate north and West and similarly from modern day Indian Punjab, Rajasthan and Gujerat.
The next successive waves of Islamic empires came from Turkic, Persian and Afghans.
The Turkic And Mughals were Turkic people too also came through Bengal hence why many Bengolis look very Turkic and are very fair.
It was these newly converted Muslims of Bharat many with Turkic blood, Afghan Blood, Persian blood that continue to spread from Delhi to the South of Asia.
The Mughals the largest Islamic empire in the sub continent to have crossed the Indus at their height only had control of 1/3 of The sub continent.
Then there is the episode of the Portugese, Dutch in SE Asia certainly in Sri Lanka and finally The British who also contributed to mixing of genes.
Indigenous Bharatis are the Dravidians and there is mixtures towards;
Mongoloid / Turkic
Hence the diversity.
So how are the Pakies doing these days? Are they getting their ass bombed or what?
none of the Caucasian Indians examples could really be Italian or Greeks, even though they’re Caucasians. Indians are Indians and Southern Europeans are Europeans
Pakistanies are a race of people born of Pigs.
When that faggot Mohammad started fucking the Pakies (both men and women), Pakies started worshiping Big Mo.
That is the peopling of Pakistan.
There were Cro-Magnons’ in the Mesolithic Gangetic basin, similar to Europeoid people from Paleolithic Europe (to their south was Balangoda man.)
Not sure if this has been mentioned or not, but human settlement in India has been dated to >74 Ka by the Toba volcanic ash overlying stone tools. The Toba event made the subcontinent uninhabitable and isolated the Australasian survivors in southeast Asia from the rest of humanity. The remnants of the decimated human population were confronted with a very sudden planetary cooling as a result of the Toba event, and the adaptive pressure has been hypothesized as the driving factor in the development of a cold-adapted east Asian branch from the Australasian trunk, enhanced by the importance of founder effects among the surviving remnants. The Dravidian settlement was the re-occupation of the Bengal shore by Australasians. The tone language trait of east Asian/Australasian cultures (along with an isolated tone language group in the Indus Valley) is believed to reflect African-derived tone language among the original migrants.
Looking closely at the faces of Australasian-derived Indians, the similarities between Australasian and east Asian facial shapes are striking: round, with broad cheekbones and low facial topography. It’s looking more and more like certain northeast Asian facial features (Ainu brows and heavy Korean jaws) are the result of proto-Mongoloid/Caucasian admixture in Siberia. And the closest languages to the Japonic languages are Turkic.
Robert do you think that consanguineous marriages in South, Central and West Asia has doomed those peoples’ IQs? I’ve seen, particularly in the Pakistani community, a lot of cousin marriages and also in some of the Indian communities as well. Generally, this increases birth defects and depresses IQ. So are these people doomed?
(Serious question. I do not wish to offend)
It doesn’t doom them at all if they stop doing it.
Yes they need to abandon this practice.
I have lived through out India from the Northmost part of Kashmir to the Southern most of Karnataka. I have traveled to Goa, Central India, Uttarakhand, Bengal and even Andamans. One thing I want to tell you is that I disagree with anthropologists who say “Indians are Caucasians”. North Western Indians are about 70-80% Caucasians, but beyond that the percentage of Caucasoid genes reduces gradually towards East and South while the Australoid genes increases. I have seen pitch dark people starting from gangetic plains itself (4 out of 5 humans I encountered in Jabalpur were brown to black skinned). The “brown skinned Caucasians” that many outsiders encounter in India are in fact “light skinned Australoids”. And another lie often repeated is that the Indo-Aryans Caucasoid populated India after driving off the Australoids to the South. In fact, Indo-Aryans (who later became Brahmins) were just one of the Caucasians who came to India. Other Caucasians who were far more numerous are the Jats who came as Sakas/Scythians, the Hepthalites/Hunas/Kashmiris, Kushans/Yue-Chih who became the first Rajputs from Gurjara-Pratiharas etc. All the Central Asian peoples comprise of more than 40-50% population of North western India. The Brahmins are only a minority Caucasians, especially if you consider Bengal, where Australoids are more numerous because of absence of many Scythians, Hepthalites and Kushans.
Indians basically are a mix of the original Australoid population with waves of Caucasoids and up to a much smaller extent Mongoloid migrations/ invasions. Since the invasions came from the North West, more deeper in South Asia the Caucasiods went their numbers reduced and the Australoid component remained dominant in the genepool. India was like Mexico/ brazil are today but for thousands of years. No wonder many Brazillians (mix of Europeans, Native Americans and blacks and upto a smaller extent East Asians ) look similar to Indians.
After reading your blog I wonder in which stock i belong.Can u tell me by looking into my pic
Thanks in advance
Mostly Caucasoid with some Australoid.
Thanks…I belongs to mappila muslim community of kerala,Southern state of India.Kerala is full of mixtures,I think thats why keralites look different from other south indians!
Most of india is populated with Australoid,there is very little Caucasian element in Them
I will suggest something that no one will agree with but I will do it anyway because it is obvious to the student. Philologically and Etymologically the answer to the questions remains, as it has for so long, in the name of the country; India.
From these two root words; “En” and “De” we get the same definition in every ancient language throughout history therefore they must be root words upon which these later languages built their meanings.
The name means, “Lord God” so when used as a noun describing a place it must mean the “Land of Lord God” or “Place of lord God” which is synonymous or cognate too; “Garden of Eden.”
Many authors have come to this conclusion historically but man seems unwilling to accept India as the birthplace of human kind which is sad since all ancient mythology points in this direction and even the Egypto-Sumerians called it; “Punt” which they claim meant, “Land of Gods.”
In fact, if you allow for human imaginary construction to form “India” as a multicultural wordplay you can see “India” in “Eden” reversed. Or has it so happens Sumerian cuneiform often wrote words in different directions so it could possibly just be a mistranslation or misreading of the original.
India is birth place of human filth..
you seem to be either an Afrocentrist bigot, a white skinhead or some Indian guy fucked your mother. Why do you call India land of rapes? Have you ever heard of Genghis khan? Who’s raping who in Syria right now? Who raped who during the triangular slave trade when the British, French and Portuguese raped women like it was going out of style? You seem to be very uneducated and ignorant. Stop your silly ranting and raving.
And yes, according to the previous commentator, India was known as the Land of Punt. The ancient Egyptians claimed that’s where they came from. The Indus Valley Civilization was the oldest, predating Sumeria and Egypt, but many, for the sake of their own ulterior motive and racial prejudice, fail to accept this school of thought.
In today’s age, with the internet at your fingertips, I suggest you do some research to prove yourself wrong. According to common beliefs and taught in our history books, the Aryan Invasion Theory was pure bullshit. Surely there are many mixtures in our Indian population today, but it was not because of any Aryan Invasion Theory. It was simply because people of many different cultures traded with India long after the prescribed date of an AIT.
Indians are the true Aryans, and they never left India. Europeans are Indian tribes that left India, or should I say the Indus Valley, after the Saraswati River dried up. They moved through Central Asia into Europe or through the Caucasus Mountains into Eastern Europe.
India is the cradle of civilization. If you don’t believe me, get copies of the Vedas, Mahabharata, Upanishads, Purana, Ramayana, and if you have the wisdom to correlate the information in these books with the Bible, you would understand our human history began in the Indus valley. The religion of the Aryans is Hinduism, and the Hindu sacred texts are the Vedas and the books named above. No White men or Europeans wrote these books and brought them to India. Where are copies of it in europe? Where are the Hindu temples in Europe if the true Aryans were Europeans?
A True Brahmin to be.
robert lindsay if you do your research properly, without looking at skin colours, you will find out that Hindus have been in India for a long time dating back to even 60,000 BC. It is from here that there was migration outwards to rest of the world. I know you will probably laugh it off, but if you do your homework, try a bit harder, you will come to understand. Hinduism is a very old religion with mahabharat and ramayan taking place as far as 20,000 BC when we had vimanas while europeans used to speak in grunt grunt language.
Check your history.
Read up ajit vadakayil’s blog.
When river saraswati dried up Hindus went from here to other places like europe. Thus before Jesus even europe was pagan, which means Hindu. Hinduism is the only pagan religion left in the world in great number. I can’t keep on blabbering over here. If I go on with history I will type about 20 pages right over here. So go check for yourself before you start comparing hindu fundamentals to muslims fundamentals. I’m sure there’s a difference, which maybe you can’t come to understand. Lots of fun is made of hindu gods everywhere from your tv show supernatural to Wendy doniger. We don’t threaten to kill anyone. When was the last time you drew a vulgur cartoon of prophet muhammed and not get death sentence.
I think you should study the kukis of northeast India as well ….I promise you won’t be disappointed
these people have many faces yet they speak the same language.Some of them have golden Brown hair and pale skin…others have beautiful brown eyes much lighter than the other NE people
The kukis also claims to be originally from the middle east ….(strange right)
so I ask of you to trace, trail,locate and find out the true things and I hope to read your findings.
Fascinating blog. I’ve been following your research into the different phenotypes in India, and I must say, I’m intrigued by the vast array of diverse phenotypes and genetic profiles found in the subcontinent. I was wondering if you had the time to classify my racial makeup, provided a side-profile picture and a front facing shot as well.
Here is my side profile: http://i.imgur.com/AKmw0UM.jpg
Front facing picture (I’m on the extreme right, with a black bow-tie): http://i.imgur.com/ZRxMq3g.jpg
Another group picture (I’m the second from left, next to the Indian girl on the extreme right): http://i.imgur.com/RI26IwP.jpg
I would really appreciate any inputs as far as my racial classification is concerned; not only because I would like to know about my racial origins, but because now that I am aware of race and genetic clustering, it would be really neat to understand which of the major races I actually belong to. It would also help me understand attraction to the opposite gender. I would also appreciate if you could tell me what you think my country of origin is and what ethnicities I could pass for/be mistaken for in the U.S.A and other countries around the world. Thanks again, and let me know if you have any other questions. Thanks!
Pic one – could be Lebanese, Arab, from the Caucasus, Balkans or possibly Southern European.
Pic 2 is very interesting. You could be Jewish. It screams Jew. Or you could be any Southern European especially a Greek, Italian or Spaniard (Italian especially). There are also East Europeans who look like this, mostly from places like Romania and Hungary.
Pic 3 you do see more of the Indian phenotype. Nevertheless it is hard to classify you and you could be Persian.
I greatly appreciate your analysis and your time. I think its very commendable that you are altruistically offering your expertise to people who request it. It’s quite interesting that you saw a plethora of different ethnic appearances depending on the picture in question. I myself have been victim to this guessing game quite a bit over the years, with some people penning me down as MENA, and others assuming I was Southern European. It can be quite frustrating at times, having an ambiguous ethnic appearance — having a disconnect between internal and external perception can really cause psychological trauma and identity disorder. However, on the brighter side, it does show that we are all more related than our arbitrary geographical boundaries would lead us to believe.
I noticed you classify people as “Caucasian” or “White” or “Mongoloid” or “Negroid”, etc. depending on their phenotype/predominant appearance, and I was wondering which of the major races you would put me into based on my pictures above. If it helps to further reach a definitive conclusion, I am appending three additional pictures of myself. I guess what I’m asking is — do you see anything in my facial structure/facial features/bone structure/general appearance that screams “Non-Caucasian/Non-White” or “Asian” or “MENA” or “South Asian” or “Mongoloid Admix” etc. ? Or would you say that I am a “pure” version of one of the major races?
Here are three additional pictures:
Picture 1 (I’m in the red sweatshirt on the top left, back row, to the left of the guy in the black and white striped shirt, just right of the girl with the long hair): http://i.imgur.com/KjbDXS8.jpg
Picture 2 (I’m on the left with the cowboy hat): http://i.imgur.com/kmL4M0o.jpg
Picture 3 (I’m on the far right in the navy, white and red t-shirt): http://i.imgur.com/2BbMlVx.jpg
Based on the all the aforementioned pictures, (both in this post and the previous one) on based on this side profile (which is the most accurate representation of me, weight-wise): http://i.imgur.com/AKmw0UM.jpg
What would you say my overall ethnic appearance appears to be, especially when people see me in person? What race would they perceive me to be? Would you consider it to be an “interracial” relationship if I dated someone who belonged to the major Caucasian race, or to one of its subsets? For instance, if I was in a relationship with a MENA or a European would that be perceived as “interracial” in the United States or elsewhere? What would people classify me as when they see me?
Thanks a million for your continued analysis and insight into this issue. I greatly appreciate it. As always, let me know if you need any additional information from my side. Thanks!
Pics 1 and 2, you are just some White guy. 3 pretty much the same, for some reason, you look like a Russian. Pic 4 is much harder to characterize but for sure you could be a MENA type, a Turk or from the Balkans.
No you are just a Caucasoid. It most pics you look Europid. It would not be an interracial relationship if you were involved with any Caucasian person of any type.
Thanks again for your valuable insights. Your assessment goes along well with what people have told me earlier. As a Caucasian from India, I quite agree with your charitable views on Indian culture and Hinduism and your acrimonious tendencies towards Hindutvadis and other religious radicals. It seems like hypocrisy of the finest order for a Hindu or Indian of any race (Mongoloid, Dravidian, or Caucasoid, or Caucasoid-admixed) to pine for an American job, American citizenship, and an American standard of living, and then to turn around and act all high and mighty by denigrating Western culture, history, and people.
This is the exact opposite of what America is supposed to be — a melting pot of all cultures, where immigrants strive to assimilate and/or integrate, not separate and hang out in artificially constructed cliques that have no context in the cultural and social landscape of the United States. While its O.K to be proud of your heritage and culture, its another thing entirely to believe that your are superior to others because of it. Or to ignore lessons from and immersion in other cultures because of a closed mindset, while expecting other cultures to follow your own — because it is supposedly the only “true” way.
In fact, I don’t see how its any different from racism — quite ironic really, considering how many Indians, especially Dravidians, are the first to pull the skin color or race card when faced with what they perceive to be discrimination. (See: Australian incidents of “racism” meted out to Sri Lankans and Dravidians). Therefore, I think it is in the best interests of all Indian immigrants, and all immigrants in general to behave as everyone in America has behaved and will continue to behave; like an American. As the old saying goes, “When in Rome, do as the Romans do.” Besides, Indians as a collective have nothing to be insecure about — they have the oldest existing civilization on Earth, are responsible for some of the most paradigm-shifting inventions and discoveries in math, science and other academic fields, along with the oldest religion, and a history of being the richest, most coveted country on Earth (up until the 18th-19th centuries) as is evidenced by a super-long history of invasions from Arab and European marauders and imperialists. Not to mention the fact that they are some of the most ancient Caucasians in the case of South Indians, and no different from present-day Caucasians in the case of High-caste North and South Indians.
Of course, not all Indians behave this way — as you may well know yourself, and it also has to do with the generation of Indian immigrants you are looking at — but in general, Indians are becoming more progressive as time goes on, and in my family at least, the age-old “No BMWs” adage has long since ceased to exist. In fact, we have lovingly and willingly welcomed many fellow Americans (read: Spaniards and Koreans, etc.) into our family and will continue to do so. We only seek to marry a fellow American that we love, regardless of their ethnic background. We look at the individual, not the color or the race. And this is really how all normal Americans behave, with the exception of a few nutcases who are ignorant enough to limit their dating pool by using something as arbitrary and irrelevant as race. Attraction knows no color or race — there is either chemistry present between two individuals, or there isn’t. No sane person would choose to marry someone solely on the basis of his/her race — the person’s personality and overall appearance always comes first — race doesn’t even factor in to the picture unless the person wants their children to look more like them. Even then, there is no guarantee as to what your children will look like.
The only reason I was curious about my background is because I am frequently accosted by random people (all Caucasoid) of various backgrounds (Read: MENAs and Euros) who are hell-bent on claiming me as one of their own. When I withdraw in wry disinterest, I am usually greeted with a scornful expression, one that goes along the lines of “Oh look, another self-hating [insert ethnic group here]” While this might sound amusing in theory, in practice it is not only irritating, but also flabbergasting and confidence-shattering. After a decade of looking ambiguous and knowing nothing more about my origins other than the fact that my grandparents hail from NW India, from the former region of Rajputana, and belong to the clan of Suryavanshi Rajputs, I decided to turn to science to gain a concrete idea of what my biological “racial identity” really is. Not to mention the fact that I find myself attracted to Caucasian women of all backgrounds, something that used to puzzle me initially, because I was unsure of my own ethnic identity. Of course, I have been attracted to East Asian women as well, but I found more rapport with them initially due to checking the same box on college admissions forms and other such racial categorization boxes.
Now that I am positive that Indians are genetically and forensically Caucasoid, particularly NW High Caste Indians like myself, who have maintained endogamy through archaic practices like arranged marriage in the Vedic style, I am much less conflicted about both my racial identity and my preferences in women. It goes without saying that in the past only Caucasoid women have evinced interest in me, from all backgrounds, but particularly European and MENA and South Asian women. There have been random East women too, sure, but they have been overwhelmingly Caucasian, and that is no surprise. However, before acting on these invitations of female interest, I had to be positive that I wasn’t acting on an impulse that had been manufactured by “white-washing” due to the Western media and its overpowering influence (read: globalization). In addition, I had to be sure that I wasn’t discounting women of particular ethnicities because of prejudices and ignorance, as opposed to ingrained preferences that form in part due to ethnic/racial backgrounds. That said, I am open to any ethnicity in general, its just that I find a certain pattern in what I find attractive in a female.
Now that I am free from any sort of mental roadblock, I think I have you to thank in part for freeing me from this self-imposed mental prison, akin to an incel-like state. As a last question, I was just curious about one more thing: if they sequenced high-caste NW Indians and checked for clustering (Excluding other Indians and ethnic groups) do you believe that the results would decry the commonly held assumption that Indians are divergent Caucasoids? I firmly believe that if such a study was conducted, high-caste NW Indians would cluster as close to MENAs and Euros as Italians or EE or any other Southern Euros and certain MENA groups. Do you have any insight on this? And last but not least, 23andme had a genetic profile on their site of a “typical Indian man” that showed 90% European and 10% Asian ancestry — would this be accurate? What is this Asian element? Central Asian/Caucasoid or Mongoloid? And what about groups that have no Asian ancestry like our clan? Would they be 100% Caucasian (a mix of different Caucasian groups?)
I know that certain European groups are also between 5-30% Non-Caucasian, in some cases Negroid, in some cases Mongoloid, and some groups like the Basques and the Sami people and the Sardinians and the Berbers are even more divergent than Indians in general, so Indians could actually be more Caucasoid/White than many European groups, correct?
Thanks a bunch, and as a token of appreciation, I will be donating to your website. Please keep up the good work.
Thank you very much my Caucasian brother. We are indeed part of a great race and I welcome you to the party for the European peoples inside and outside of Europe. WPWW!
And thank you very much for the gift! Maybe I will be able to pay my bills this month. No wait, I won’t, but this at least put me back at budget. I am glad I was able to help you solve your identity problem. Many Indians seem to have these identity problems.
Not to mention the fact that they are some of the most ancient Caucasians in the case of South Indians, and no different from present-day Caucasians in the case of High-caste North and South Indians.
Indians in general score Caucasoid on most tests, but they definitely seem to be some of the most divergent Caucasoids of all. In general they are Caucasoids heading off towards the Asian spectrum. However, Berbers are the most divergent Caucasoids of all on some tests, much further away than even the Indians.
I firmly believe that if such a study was conducted, high-caste NW Indians would cluster as close to MENAs and Euros as Italians or EE or any other Southern Euros and certain MENA groups.
Indeed Indians are not far genetically from Europeans on a number of genetic charts. It goes like this – Europeans – Greeks – Iranians – Indians. The Greeks are the links between the Euros and the Iranians. The Iranians are the links between the Greeks and the Indians. On a number of genetic charts, even the distance from Indians to Europeans is not very far. The distances in Asia between even small groups are much higher than the distance between Euros and Indians. High caste Indians do not score any different on basic charts than other Indians and they are not closer to Euros. But on some charts, Iranians are very close to Euros. I have seen charts where they line right up with Danes and Norwegians. So if you are an Indian with some Persian genetics, you could be closer to Euros.
And last but not least, 23andme had a genetic profile on their site of a “typical Indian man” that showed 90% European and 10% Asian ancestry — would this be accurate? What is this Asian element? Central Asian/Caucasoid or Mongoloid? And what about groups that have no Asian ancestry like our clan? Would they be 100% Caucasian (a mix of different Caucasian groups?)
I am not really sure but the NW Indians do have an Asiatic component. Punjabis are 14% Asiatic. Not sure what this is but it may be a Tibetan like line.
Now that I am positive that Indians are genetically and forensically Caucasoid, particularly NW High Caste Indians like myself, who have maintained endogamy through archaic practices like arranged marriage in the Vedic style…
Yes on skulls and gene charts, your people are absolutely Caucasoid.
Not to mention the fact that they are some of the most ancient Caucasians in the case of South Indians, and no different from present-day Caucasians in the case of High-caste North and South Indians.
The more you look at charts and study the history of the Caucasian race, it does look like India and North Africa were two of the major zones where this race developed. There was a lot of movement back and forth between these zones and an intermediate one in the Caucasus for up to 30,000 years. And looking at some Berbers and Indians, you really do get the impression that perhaps we are looking at an ancient Caucasoid here. There is an old anthropological argument that the Dravidians came from the MENA region, possibly the Levant, 15-18,000 YBP. I am not sure if it is true but it is interesting. The languages may derive from that region.
Just to follow-up on me earlier post, I just wanted to state that I donated to your paypal account (linked from your donation page). Please let me know that you received it. Thanks again for all the work that you do.
Image confirming it was me: http://i.imgur.com/4KI0c41.jpg
I also added special instructions to the donation to clarify that it was me.
Thank you so much, Arya! I will have to go back and look at your other post to see if I can answer your questions.
I discussed your analysis with a few of my family and friends, and I just wanted to stop by for a few more questions in order to settle a few contentious debates. I greatly appreciate your time.
Question 1: I noticed that some people claim that all Indians are mixed with “Australoids” — does this apply to Upper-caste NW Indians that are Caucasoid like myself? I do not detect an Australoid element in me or any of my extended family members for that matter, so I was curious about this.
I mean different studies have different conclusions, and I have even seen studies that place North Indian upper caste groups as the closest to Europeans and the British, and plus they only surveyed a minority of caste groups in India, many of whom are admixed and false claimants of higher caste status, and thus arrived at an erroneous conclusion. If you group together all different Indian caste groups and omit authentic high-caste Caucasoids like us, you are bound to get a dilution of genetic information and erroneous clustering, right?
Just the other day, my mother and sister were mistaken for Italian, and my dad is frequently mistaken for the same and/or Latin American. My uncles and aunts are the same way. By the way, this is a picture of my aunt, would you say she looks completely Caucasoid:
Where could she pass?
Here is my maternal uncle, who was mistaken for white when he came to the U.S:
Question 2: Also, are Australoids Caucasoid? As in, if some Indians are mixed with this Australoid element, does that make them less Caucasoid, or are these Australoids Caucasians as well, but simply a more ancient form of Caucasoids?
Question 3: Are Dravidians the same race as Caucasoids? Just a more ancient stock? Or Are Dravidians Australoid?
Question 4: I know you have mentioned in the past that NW High Caste Indians who are Caucasoid can be unmixed Caucasians or 100% Caucasian or at least 90% Caucasian, so I was wondering if I fall under that possibility — based on my pictures, you placed me anywhere between the Balkans (also Southern Europe, Eastern Europe) the Levant, Middle East, North Africa and of course, North Indian and Pakistan/Afghanistan.
Since I look like a pure Iranian Caucasoid or even a pure Eastern European Caucasoid or a Levantine, wouldn’t it make sense that my genetic clustering would also mirror these groups? Maybe I am a pure Caucasoid descended from these groups?
Question 5: I have an Italian friend who I think looks decidedly Indic, albeit Caucasian, actually Gujarati. I wanted your opinion on it; would you say he looks like an Indid Caucasoid? Does he look more Indic than I do?And if so, is he completely Caucasoid? His parents look like Northern Italians and are from Milan. Here is his picture:
^If this guy looks Indic, and he does look more Indic than I do, then doesn’t this prove that even people who look supposedly “admixed” are 100% Caucasoid? Also, doesn’t it prove that these so-called admixed Indians are just as Caucasoid as any other Caucasoid?
Question 6: This is the famous actor Cary Grant:
He looks no different to me than the famous Indian actor Dara Singh:
A younger comparison:
To me, they both look equally Caucasoid and by extension, equally White according to U.S racial classifications. What do you think?
Question 7: What are European groups that are more genetically divergent, or that cluster further away from other Europeans than Indians — like Sardinians, Lapps, Berbers, Sami, Finns, Russians, EE’s, etc? I saw a chart that showed that Eastern Europeans were clustering closer to Indian in the NW than to Western Europeans. I’ve also seen charts that place Greeks closer to ME’s and South Asians than Europeans.
Are Russians, Eastern Europeans, and certain Southern Europeans along with people in the Balkans more genetically divergent, i.e cluster further away from other Europeans than Indians? I’d really appreciate a detailed answer on this one.
That’s all I have. I’d appreciate your views and analyses as always. Thanks again,
Hello there, your aunt simply looks like a White woman. Your uncle looks more like an Arab. Your Indian friend does indeed look Indian, and no doubt he is Caucasoid. It is very hard to tell with any Indian person what the percentages of Caucasoid, Mongoloid and Australoid are. There really is no point even talking about it because it is sort of an unknown. I have no idea what your genetic readout might look like. It is so hard to answer. The younger Singh looks very Europoid. The older one, not so much. However, the young man with him could possibly be Jewish, for example. Australoids are not Caucasoid, and a Caucasoid mixed with significant Australoid would not be a pure Caucasoid, correct. Australoids are not at all ancient Caucasoids. Instead they are better seen as ancient Asians. On some charts, the Berbers definitely cluster further away from the rest of Caucasians. However, other than that, the Indians are certainly the most divergent of Caucasoid groups, quite a bit further away than any of the others. They are heading way off towards NE Asians. Greeks are the link between Europeans and Arabs.
Yep I totally agree with you, but I think we can see some australoid blood in them like most indians are between 10-50 percent onge. I know onge is very distant to indians because of admixture with caucasoids, but I believe that in South India there was minor “Aryan” admix of like 0-5% and a decent dravidian admix of like 50-60% and there is like ~5 percent mongloid for some, and finally 30-40 percent onge on average for south indians.
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i am confdent i have all the answers to your questions and have worked it out in detail. i have posted it all here before . for more information
contact me on firstname.lastname@example.org
Dear Mr. Robert,
Well, I could see a lot of information on how different Indians like South Indians and North Indians differ in terms of facial features and genes. Thank you for your replies
is there any explanation why Most of the intelligent and smart people from India come from South India ?
Eg: Noble prize winning scientists (CV Raman, Chandra sekharan etc from Tamil Nadu)
Talented Mathematicians ( CV Ramanujan Tamil Nadu)
Missile Scientist ( APJ Abdula Kalam, Tamil nadu)
Oscar winning Music director ( A.R.Rehman/AKA Dileep, Tamilnadu)
Mokshagundam Vishweshwarayya ( Engineer behind many Civil projects during British raj, Was from Telugu, Karnataka now, on his Birth day, India Celebrate Engineers Day every year)
Satya nadella ( Current CEO of Microsoft, NY, Andhra Pradesh)
Like this I can make a lengthy list. On North Indians, I hardly heard about smart people except politicians such as Nehrus or Advani etc
I believe, genes not only control the facial features, but also, the talent
Does you research address this aspect as well ?
It is a very question my friend and thank you very much for this. I don’t have the faintest idea what is going on here, unless it is just a backwards culture (North India) vs. a more advanced one (South India).
I did little more research, as being a South Indian, I don’t want to show any bias to south Indians. I did check wikepedia for List of Indian Scientists. Though it shows people from 476 CE to till date, I filtered people only after 1800s.
My first point, these days there are more scientists but they are not as famous as our olden Days “Raman and Ramanujan”
If you really see, Top Class is mainly from South India but hey are very few , less than 10 %
When we see all together, following are the statistics
Total scientists : 133 members
South Indians : 60 (45.1%)
North Indians: 28 (21.1%)
West Indians : 23 ( 17.3%)
East Indians: 22 (16.5%)
India Population Percentage by Region
South Indians : 21.5%
North Indians: 46.4%
West Indians : 12.6 %
East Indians: 19.3%
This statistics shows South Indian intellectual levels are high compared to other regions.
IQ is really not popular in India. Being a 32 year Old Engineer, I never checked my IQ. I didnt see its being checked in younger generation aswell. It is difficult to comment on IQ as it is not followed in India.
As you said it could be a difference in advanced and backward culture
This is an old topic,but i found it very interesting. as i always thought,i mightbe a pure archaic caucasoid from kashmir.
I did DNA test & found virtually zero african/melanesians/vedoid/australoid) mixture.I gangup with my indo-iranic tribes (kalash & pakhhtun)
You can see my face & go to my FB timeline.
Yes some of the Kashmiris are very, very White. That is interesting that you are related to the Kalash. They are White as Hell, incredibly White for that part of the world. Pakhtuns are also very White. Welcome to the White party, my friend! Enjoy your stay!
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my FB https://www.facebook.com/jayanta.lal.182
no arab/no african/no australoid haplogroups in me…..i see why we are called arya
Northindia is in mess its a whole different topic,,,why aryan looking caucsian syrians are in mess??why greeks are bankrupt? why afganis are in mess??why anglo-saxonic UK is now lost???everyone canbe poor/down..
so you can see how jealous these half-australoid southindians are….heck i wont buy your southindian brides with dowry….yeah you can fuk yourself.you are genetic poisons for purebred indoiranics like me….losers
North-East Indians in India suffer a lot of discrimination on a day-to-day basis because of the “chinkie” looks. This year alone, there have been 200 racist attacks against them mostly in Northern India and Bangalore. North-Eastern girls because of their exotic Asian looks are often harassed by sex-crazed Indian men. Many of them work in restaurants, nail salons and massage parlors just like in Thailand. However unlike Thai women, North-Easterners have class and full of self-respect. You won’t find even a single one of them working as prostitutes.
North-Easterner women come from a gender-equal society and really have nothing in common with other Indians.
Here’s a Facebook community dedicated to prevent discrimination against people from North East India https://www.facebook.com/SDPFTNEI/
Here’s are some pictures of your average regular Joe’s from North-East India
Female body-builder from Manipur called Thingbajam Sarita
Mandira Chhetri, an artiste from Sikkim (she’s very pretty 🙂
Ramina Haorokcham, a female entreprenur from Manipur and owner of Gojilove.com an adult online shop
Thai actress Pachrapa Chaichua. She’s half-Mizo from Mizoram state. Interesting mix – Thai-North-Eastern Indian
Zuchobeni Tungoe, from Kohima, Nagaland
Proneeta Swargiary, dancer from Assam
I came across this website and thought to myself “Great! I found something great to read on during the Holidays” However, didn’t think I’d open up and ask anything since finding out Garo Naga Meitei in my autosomal makes things a bit tricky.. since my vedic part is Brahmin. I don’t look anything Asian. My kids all appear the same. Yet, I’ve felt that Tibetan connection for a long time. And, according to your calculations Naga and Garo are Tibetan (and in language). So, thanks for that comment.
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Great article!! I’m a North Indian. My facial features are not like Indians. I’m light to fair skinned girl. I have researched on myself on the basis of rest of my features. Some people suggest that I might be from Iran or Italy or other region. I’m still confused how would I determine myself into which race? Note: My mother is a fair skinned woman while my father is like an average North indian face.
Where are you from dear?
Race is a complex subject. Most people in the world are mixed to some extent or other. By the way, the concept of “European” doesn’t carry much weight with me. Northern/Western Europeans look very different to Southern Europeans, to the point they are different race one could argue. Southern Europeans not only darker but have different facial features.
Even within Northern/Western Europe there are differences. The Scandinavians can generally be told apart from from other Northern Europeans. Scandinavians, Germans and the Dutch may also have bit of Mongoloid influence, through Sami. Some Mongoloid influence from the Mongols not just reached Eastern Europe, but as far as Germany.
I have travelled extensively throughout Europe and the people can look different. For example, I have noticed some Western Scandinavians and Germans can have quite thick lips, almost a bit rubbery. I always wondered if this was Sami influence. The British generally have very thin lips, quite often almost “non-existent”, especially the upper lip.
Al Molinaro, the guy who played the Diner owner in Happy Days passed away recently. He can pass for MiddleEastern in many pics, especially ones where he is swarthy. Yet in atleast 1 pic he looks clearly European
If I didn’t know who he was and saw him in the street in a Euro capital or major American capital, I would’ve thought he was MidEastern. I would not mistake him for a Northern European.
Northern and Southern Euros are mostly the same people but there are distinct phenotype differences and while MidEastern people can sometimes pass for Southern Euros and vice versa, the same is rarely true for Northern Euros.
Yet MidEast and European genetic clusters are different. Southern Euros have significant stone age European hunter gatherer ancestry but less than Northern Euros, while MidEastern groups don’t.
Where did you get the 17000 years ago info from?
But a more important question is did caucasoid features originate in europe or west asia?. coon seems to think so. If it did in europe, it makes europeans the africans among caucasians – the primitive and geographically stagnant ones, while the arabs persians and south asians would be the few(from the initial bunch in europe) who migrated found newer land, territory and enjoyed a higher GDP for the most part of history.
Even If caucasoid origin seems to be near Levant or israel, Europeans are still lesser successful than south asians in terms of numbers and expansion and historical access to resources. Besides they have a hell of a lot more invasions into europe and certainly diminishes the success of the first wave to enter europe. So whether they are predominantly cro-magnons or neolithic greeks or indo-european invaders, they are made up of parts that r not so successful as the other parts.
So whats you poison Europe or west asia?
ROBERT SCANDINAVIAN MISNOMER
To say white as Swedes is not quite accurate. Get North of middle Sweden and the population is not entirely Caucasian. In the North, not at all.
Swedes were not always “white”.
The Swedes today who speak a language in the Germanic family migrated in the dawn of European history into Scandinavia from Germany just as Aryan tribes migrated in South Asia.
Asians had lived in Lappland before then.
Sami, some sort of Asian tribe from the Arctic, had been the original inhabitants of Scandinavia.
Indian history is somewhat analogous.
Sikhs, for example, are recorded as having originated in the area of the Volga River. This is straight-up written fact in the annals Vedic history.
Parsi have only been in India 700 years.
Gujjars came from Georgia.
In terms of the degree of Australoid or Aryan ancestry. it appears there actually is not a lot of variation overall, even with Castes.
For instance, a Brahmin may be 60% Aryan, 40% Australoid a Dalit the inverse (40% Aryan, 60% Australoid)
Aryans never got down into South India below the Hindi speaking line.
Tamil Catholics or Kerala Muslims 40% Aryan…no possible way.
I might believe low-caste North Indians have some Aryan blood but South Indians do not.
BUMPKIN Tamil Catholic 40% Aryan? NO WAAAAAYYYY.
Low-caste South Indians don’t have an Aryan hair on their body.
Aryans never got South of the Malayalam line. Before the days of Air Conditioners they did not take to it.
black-skinned boy of great purity. Arjuna about himself, the aryan hero ha ha. Why did the aryans made their greatest warrior charater black skinned ? http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/m04/m04044.htm
If you read the ancient indian literatures which is pretty large, you will come across mention of skin color of prominent characters, warriors, scholars, teachers etc. They is mention of all type of skin colors which indicate a pretty mixed culture even in ancient literatures. Arjuna, the posterboy of aryan race, the mythical hero is clearly mentioned as black-skinned. Krishna was black. Pandu was pale. There are some copper colored folks, golden colored. Sharmista is mentioned as fairest skin.
Vaivasvata is their aryan father, progenitor and he is a Dravidian south indian king, which is an irony. Vaivasvata by the way is the equivalent of Noah.
I have read a white supremist blog and clearly what they mean white is blue eyes, blonde hair, and pale white skin. They showed in a video a blonde with blue eyes with a caption more like it and then showed a white girl with black hair and dark eyes with a caption less like it ha ha.
Also in your opinion are south indians like telugu and tamil people caucasoid-australoid hybrids?
Hard too say. Tamil skulls plot pure Australoid, but the genes are mixed of courser. Not sure about Telegu skulls. I have seen and met some Telegu though and they looked quite Australoid to me.