Race Realism, White Nationalism and White Separatism

David Kelsey, who has his own website, comments in the Why White Nationalism And Zionism Are Creatures of a Feather thread:

What do you think of the following classification of severity? This isn’t mine, but based on my own understanding of the explanation VDARE expressed grappling with its own classification.
1) Race Realists
2) White Nationalists
3) White Supremacists

David’s hierarchy is just fine. In practice, most WN’s other than Jared Taylor are White Supremacists and I think JT considers himself one too. Almost all WN’s are in fact White separatists. Show me a WN who is not a White separatist. And in practice almost all of them are White Supremacists. They few that are not are Asiaphiles. That White nationalism and White Supremacism are two different things is one of the big lies of White nationalism. In praxis, it’s generally not so.
As far as race realism (and I speak as a race realist), its real-life consequences are so devastating and extreme if taken to its logical conclusions, that most White race realists at some time or another seem to adopt some aspects of the WN platform. I was really hoping you could be a race realist and not drift into this nasty stuff, but I’m not so sure.
Most race realists, after some time, eventually advocate: getting rid of anti-discrimination laws, restrictions or punishments of various types against Blacks and Hispanics, radical restructuring of immigration law such as ending immigration altogether and ending all immigration by certain groups. Quite a few of them eventually drift into some sort of White separatism.
The progression is pretty clear. One typically goes from race realist to White nationalist (of some type or another) all the way to an extremist separatist or supremacist. The progression is so predictable and regular that we could almost plot it out on graphs.
I would add that most race realists in the US seem to drift inevitably the Right as part of their enlightenment. In Europe, it is much different. There, most of the overtly racialist White movement is socialist in one way or another. Capitalism isn’t a White man’s religion, and capitalism screws Whites as hard as any other ethnic group.
The notion that capitalism is a White thing or to be pro-White is to dementedly pro-capitalist and psychotically anti-government is a particular conceit of the White racialist movement in the US, and has to do with US racial dynamics.
Whites are seen as producers, and evil liberal, anti-White government takes White tax money and gives it to no-good “nigger and spics” so they can make tons of babies that hate Whites and prey on them and help take over America for the non-Whites – this is how the line goes.
The line is “government always hates Whites.” On a worldwide and historical scale, that’s preposterous, nor does it have predictive validity for future societies. Government is government. It does not de facto, by its very nature, hate or favor any particular ethnic group in any way, shape or form. A pro-White government, or at least not one that is anti-White, is just as possible and reasonable as the other way around.
It would be nice if we could have a nice, polite, orderly America in the 21st Century if most Whites adopted race realism, but it’s probably not possible.
The WN’s always like to point out that not too long ago, almost all Whites were what we would nowadays call “race realists.” Much worse, they were out and out Nordicists hostile to Eastern and Southern Europeans and Jews.
The suggestion is that since Whites were so reasonable with this race realist stuff in the past, why can’t we just go back to that? Because the probable consequences of that mass belief in race realism were segregation and Jim Crow, anti-miscegenation laws, no civil rights, voter rights or housing rights laws, and mass racism, bigotry and discrimination on the part of Whites. Go back to race realism and you probably go back to its consequences.
Given the baggage that race realism carries with it, it makes sense for progressives, Leftists, anti-racists, Blacks and Hispanics to oppose it the way they do. They aren’t stupid at all.

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32 thoughts on “Race Realism, White Nationalism and White Separatism”

  1. Well.. yeah. I wonder why you write so much about WN and racialism, Robert? I think you’re a very soft white-ist, who’s mad about thinking such things. Is that true?

  2. Not really, think of me as the anti-WN. However, I am absolutely fascinated by WN and I am a regular reader of American Renaissance. I AM a race realist, and the best place to find race realist stuff is on WN sites. I agree with WN about the race realist stuff, and about defending White identity, but they take it way too far for me. I’m also an ethnocentric White man who agrees with the WN that Western culture is better and who dislikes the discrimination and anti-White bullshit that we Whites have to put up these days.
    Look, you have no idea how many people out there are just like me. Surveys have shown that 73% of Whites are “soft WN” if you will. They say they are proud to be White and they say that White culture deserves to be preserved. If you scratch the surface of many Whites, you will find this attitude lurking. Many are mad about affirmative action and dubious about a lot of the behavior of Hispanics and Blacks. However, most of these folks are not racist at all, and here in CA, they will make friends with anyone of any race pretty much. They will also date outside their race and even marry outside their race. According to WN’s they are race traitors.
    Thing is, some of the stuff that WN say really rings true for a huge number of Whites who are not racists, don’t discriminate, and are willing to miscegenate.
    I know you guys find that really hard to understand.
    There are also certain folks who have set themselves up as experts in WN. A Black woman named Carol Swain is one of them. I fashion myself like her. As Ms. Swain is obsessed with WN, is she one too. Super Jews are obsessed with anti-Semites. Therefore Abe Foxman is an anti-Semite? Homophobes are obsessed with gays. Therefore they are closet gays? Come on, man.
    As far as whether I would be mad about thinking certain things as you suggest, well, no. If I had racist thoughts or feelings that I didn’t like, yeah. If I couldn’t interact with Blacks without thinking, “Fucking nigger”, yeah that would bother me. But I don’t have racist feelings and I’m not a racist. Sure, I look at my window at these poor Blacks and Hispanics and I think what a bunch of lowlifes, but I see plenty of Blacks and Hispanics who act just like I do, and I’d be more than happy to befriend them.
    I’m not uncomfortable with my race realist stance and you should see the way some of my White friends and I talk when no one is listening. We use all manner of racial slurs and it doesn’t bother me one iota. But I don’t think they apply to the Blacks and Hispanics I respect. Further, I deny that such talk is racism.
    Racism is a choice. No one feels bad about being a racist, hates being a racist, or is afraid of being a racist. If you do, you’re not one. It’s that simple. It’s a choice some folks make because the world feels more comfortable that way. I happen to think that stereotyping and discriminating and wanting to separate from whole ethnic groups or races is moronic, but racists don’t agree.
    Also, for some reason, I have tons of WN readers (How did this happen?) and so I’m writing posts directed at them so they will respond and whatnot.

  3. Dear Robert
    I fail to see how race realism must necessarily lead to white racialism. It would be more accurate to say that racial egalitarianism leads to white racialism and other racialisms as well. Racial egalitarianism, which is the official policy in the US, starts with the assumption that races are equal and has as its main policy goal that there should be equality of outcome between races. This heightens race-consciousness and leads to racial resentments.
    Since races aren’t equal, they can’t have equal outcomes. Under race realism, this would be expected and accepted. Under racial egalitarianism, this will not be accepted and the result will inevitably be that the inferior races will blame the superior ones and make more demands on them. That in return provokes hostile reactions among the superior races, who are unfairly accused of discrimination. Racial egalitarianism replaces class politics with race politics and eventually will make us all race-conscious and racialists in the name of anti-racism.
    Good policies can’t result from fundamentally false assumptions, and the assumption that races are equal is such a false assumption. The best policy is a combination of race realism and firm commitment to civil equality. In a multiracial society, all members of all races should enjoy exactly the same rights and be subjected to exactly the same standards. They should also be free to associate with each other in any way that they like, which of course includes racial intermarriage.
    I’m not at all opposed to egalitarian policies, but reducing class differences is something quite distinct from equalizing races. Suppose that in a country 80% of the population is white and 20% is black and that the top 10% has 60% of national income. Then an old-fashioned social-democrat like myself would like to see the share of the top 10% reduced to a lower percentage through government policy and not worry about the racial composition of the top 10%.
    A racial egalitarianism, on the other hand, would only try to insure that 20% of the top 10% consits of blacks and not worry about how much they are getting. Racial egalitarianism is a godsend to plutocrats.
    Suppose that we have a company of 5 owners and 95 employees. The 5 owners are all white and rolling in profits, while the 95 employees are slaving away for a pittance. Of those 95 employees, 65 are white and 30 are black. Now some white employees want to create a union and the 5 white bosses say to them: “Come on, guys, do you really want to be in a union together with those blacks? The union will transfer profits from us whites to those blacks.” The argument of the 5 white bosses is dishonest and self-interested, but it is the type of argument that WN’s in the US fall for. They seem to obsess about the fact that a disproportionate share of social programms goes to blacks and aren’t in the least worried about the grwoing concentration of income at the top.
    To continue with this analogy, the 5 white owners make two blacks owners too, so 30% of the owners are now black, which is the same percentage of blacks within the company. They can proudly say that now there is racial egalitarianism in the company, as there is, but the 93 employees are still getting only their pittance. This illustrates how diversity and racial egalitarianism undermine traditional social-democracy.
    Regards. James

  4. Robert, I said you’re a soft self-hating white racialist. You said you aren’t then went and explained what you were which is pretty much what I said you were.
    Is Carol Swain really an expert on WN? I know she wrote a couple of books, that I’ve read parts of on google books, but I don’t know of anything outside of those two books that she’s written on it.

  5. Um, no, I am not a White racialist. I agree with James that people should associate based on interests. If Blacks, Hispanics or anyone else act like I do, and in particular, are as morally proper as I am, then there is no problem. White racialists say that my only affinities are racial and they lie with my own race. This is crap. My affinities lie with people who act like I do, and most importantly, are as morally proper as I am. Those persons may be of any race whatsoever.
    Self-hating racists do not exist. Racism is a choice, and there is no such thing as someone who is afraid he is a racist, except in the fevered minds of racists like you. Ask around. See how many people think that creatures like “people who are afraid they are racists” or self-hating racists, exist. Racism is a conscious choice. All racists enjoy being racists and feel no guilt about it. If they felt bad, they would not be racists.
    P.S. I do not appreciate your tone.

  6. I somewhat agree with bongoparty here, Mr. Lindsay – you seem to be an anti-racist/leftist soft White nationalist or White race realist/racialist.
    Here on your blog you have constantly talked about California slowly becoming “Hispanic wrecked” (your own words) and how as a result it has become a much worse place than before it was invaded by Hispanics, you have opposed the general ‘immorality’ of your average ‘uncivilized’ ghetto Hispanics and Blacks, you heartily oppose unrestricted immigration and call for strong border security, you take race/IQ issues seriously along with other race realist views (i.e., you fully acknowledge racial differences and have discarded the PCness of this topic), you read race realist and WN websites like AmRen (and even comment there sometimes), you want to see Whites survive long-term in America and Europe, etc.
    All of this adds up to an an affiliation of sorts with White nationalist or White racialist views. I do want to emphasize though that you are definitely a SOFT White nationalist of the leftist variety and thus have nothing in common with the far-right race realists or White nationalists who might call for wholesale expulsion or even genocide if things got bad enough between the races.

  7. Forgot to say: you are also quite critical of Jews in general and also seem to be suspicious of some of their collective motives in White Western societies…which is of course another feature of White nationalism.

  8. Nope, it’s not true.
    Most White people feel this way.
    I am a White race realist. I will grant you that. Racialists are no good. They say that all Blacks and all Hispanics are no good. The fact that a place tends to go downhill as it gets more Black or Hispanic does not mean that there are tons of Blacks or Hispanics who act just like I do. Those people could be my friends or even my dates or my lovers. Plus I’m 100% opposed to all discrimination and I want all civil rights laws enforced.
    I want to return to the California of my youth, which was 20-30% non-White. It’s more about numbers than about race per se. Read Victor Davis Hanson on that – Mexifornia. My views are similar to his. Non-Whites are part of the neighborhood here in CA and the Mexicans are almost part of the family. Anyone of any race can be an American.
    Hispanic-wrecked around here mostly means overrun by illegals. It’s more about culture than about race. The illegals are turning this state into Tijuana. I grew up with these people, but they acted just like me. Now everything’s changed, and what used to be a minority are taking over. I was more comfortable with them as a minority. Also, you don’t see Hispanic-wrecked stuff at the higher income levels – it’s only at the lower and has to do with gangbanger, barrio culture.
    You don’t know what it’s like here in California. We feel like we are being hit by a tidal wave! There’s tons of White Californians who feel just like I do, a lot of them are liberals, and most of them are still not racists.
    WN hate all Hispanics and all Blacks. They want to throw all of them out of the US! They deny that they part of this nation, as they define American racially! They want to get rid of all anti-discrimination laws! They want to separate from all non-Whites and form a White separatist state! They want to shut off non-White immigration whatsoever. MLK and Lincoln are the enemy! Slavery, segregation, Jim Crow, is all wonderful and the Civil Rights Act and Brown vs BE are the crimes of the century. WTF?????
    That right there puts me way outside of WN.
    73% of Americans want to see White culture survive long-term. Are they WN?

  9. What’s the difference between a race realist and a racialist? What’s a soft WN?
    You’re right I’m critical of Jews, but not because they are the enemy of my race. WTF?

  10. “What’s the difference between a race realist and a racialist? What’s a soft WN? .. You’re right I’m critical of Jews, but not because they are the enemy of my race. WTF?”
    As far as I can tell race realism is basically a synonym of racialism, though many confuse the term ‘racialist’ with ‘racist’ because they are spelled and sound so similar.
    A soft White nationalist is as I described above – a far less extreme and fanatical variant of the general White nationalist movement. Soft racial nationalism, though on the leftist end of the spectrum, is still clearly on the racial nationalist continuum; it is pretty much the polar opposite of the far-right hard racial nationalists such as the Nazi SS, the Hutu racial militias (who genocidally slaughtered nearly a million Tutsis in the 1990s), or other groups which might advocate and carry out activities such as race-based violence, forced resettlement, outright expulsion, or genocide.
    Critical of Jews – virtually no other group in the contemporary USA criticizes undue Jewish power and influence besides White nationalists/White racialists. Some American leftists criticize the highly racist Israeli policies toward the Palestinians, but they stop far short of criticizing Jewish power/influence in general. Thus White nationalists are currently at the forefront of criticizing, exposing, and ultimately combating the deleterious influence which Jews generally have on White Western societies.

  11. Well, if racialist is a synonym for race realist, then I guess I’m a racialist.
    But I agree with James Schipper. If the Black guy next door to me has more in common with me than the White guy does, I’m going to hang with him. I’m not going to hang with the White dude because he’s White! WTF?
    Yeah, some of my friends are just like me, but even more so. One is an out and out Nordicist. But he really hates the mainstream WN, or more properly, he thinks they are useless morons. When I read Amren, a lot of those commenters make my blood boil. I don’t want to say it to their faces, but I really hate them so much.
    I am kind of confused though. I would not call it self-hating because I don’t hate any part of myself. I mean, I hate what these illegals have done to the city I live in, but then I have to deal with them all day. I shop at the illegal alien supermarket because they’re nicer than the Whites. I go to Spanish language Mass because it’s cooler and the Hispanics are nicer.
    I talk to the illegals a lot and I get drunk with them in the bars and they put their arms around me like we are best buddies. They say they like me cuz I’m nice to the Mexicans. But then I really do want them to go back to Mexico. But if I were a Mexican, I would probably be just like them. I don’t hate them as individuals, but I hate what they do to our towns collectively.
    I’m fascinated by WN because they are the only people who are speaking up for us Whites, and a lot of what they say is just flat out true. But their vicious racism is just despicable.
    It’s all pretty confusing if you stop and think about it, and I am a pretty conflicted person.
    Perhaps you may be correct, then.
    But “self-hating racist” is just bullshit.
    Do soft White nationalists want a separate White state or to get rid of anti-discrimination laws?

    1. I am kind of confused though. I would not call it self-hating because I don’t hate any part of myself. I mean, I hate what these illegals have done to the city I live in, but then I have to deal with them all day. I shop at the illegal alien supermarket because they’re nicer than the Whites. I go to Spanish language Mass because it’s cooler and the Hispanics are nicer.
      I talk to the illegals a lot and I get drunk with them in the bars and they put their arms around me like we are best buddies. They say they like me cuz I’m nice to the Mexicans. But then I really do want them to go back to Mexico. But if I were a Mexican, I would probably be just like them. I don’t hate them as individuals, but I hate what they do to our towns collectively.

      This is a fascinating passage and really shows just how psychologically and sociologically complicated race is in America. I think many people feel just like you. In fact, I’m convinced that extremists, like the Nordicist you mentioned is nothing more than a coping mechanism in the face of dealing with a world full of contradictions, idiosyncrasies, and shades of gray. It makes life psychologically easier and mentally more manageable. You don’t have to be bogged down with all these contradicting thoughts that drain mental energy. Just write off an entire race, hate them, want absolutely nothing to do with them and you don’t really have to think about it. If you ever confront an extremist on anything and you introduce logic that forces them to question their beliefs, they get abruptly upset. And you can see why. You are making their easily manageable world much more arduous. Living with cognitive dissonance isn’t for everyone.

  12. One typically goes from race realist to White nationalist (of some type or another) all the way to an extremist separatist or supremacist. The progression is so predictable and regular that we could almost plot it out on graphs.
    I think you are ceding too much ground to the white supremacists’ own claims.
    A jump to white supremacism from race realism is not just a political alignment shift or intensification of race realist ideas, but also entails that one accept almost mystical axioms and blatant conspiracy theories.
    Not everyone will do that.

  13. “I want to return to the California of my youth, which was 20-30% non-White. It’s more about numbers than about race per se. Read Victor Davis Hanson on that – Mexifornia. ”
    Oh but Robert, surely you must know that California used to be a republican stronghold, right? The weakness that diversity is has made things worse in California, but it is now one of the more liberal states, which the Left is supposed to like, right?
    With Whites, you can have liberalism if Whites are more than 90% of the population (e.g. Scandinavia (or at least it was!!), Minnesota, N. & S. Dakota), because enough Whites will benefit from it. however, if Whites are 60-80% of the population we start to become more conservative because a great deal of White money is being used to support non-Whites (i.e. welfare Blacks & Hispanics, and Octomom who is Iranian!). But one you get into the range where Whites are less than 50% of the population, you will have a liberal state, in the mold of California–as Whites have lost our voting power. (The only reason Arnold got elected is because he is a moderate not to mention the Terminator.)
    To summarize, if you want economic socialism, a country must choose between being nearly all-White or (usually) less than 50% White.

  14. Robert,
    I cannot help but think that there is a little bit of White Nationalism in you, if only to the extent that you have written about the need to preserve White culture in American and Europe.
    One thing which you are off on is your proclaimation of the need to allow throughly screeded high-IQ non-White into the States. Well, as I have mentioned, there is elementary science which has proven the concept of regression towards the mean. For instance, in a generation, the children of a high-IQ Tanzanian will likely have a low-IQ, more typical to their unique genotype.
    But hell, why should I care, in a generation I will not be alive. So goes the argument I occasionally hear. But these same people care about global warming, etc., even though if there are some serious reprocutions it will not be in their lifetime.
    I for one am a Christian-Darwinist who favors eugenics (yes, we have eugenics in America right now & not a lot of people are bitching). I do not believe in the big-bang theory, believe in micro-evolution–all of which has shaped my world-view.
    Here is a book about evolution from a guy name Singer (yes, I know, and yes, I do not care):
    http://www.amazon.com/Darwinian-Left-Politics-Evolution-Cooperation/dp/0300083238
    This Singer guy believes it is morally okay to kill infants after they are born and thinks of animals in much the same way he does about humans–so he is a bit off in some regards–but in some ways people are like animals, albeit often worse.

  15. What is so wrong with whites wanting to separate, old man? Let them. I don’t see you complaining about the numerous Chinatowns all over California, nor about the Jewish ghettos in New York as “racist.”

    Racism is a choice

    What you need is a good mugging by a party of roaming, apathetic 16-25 year old blacks. Or perhaps you should take a nice stroll through a neighborhood like Detroit at around 2 a.m. in the morning. Just try and mind your own business. See how quickly your perceptions of race change.

  16. I’m a moderate White nationalist – I’ll give you my views on this:
    “WN hate all Hispanics and all Blacks.”
    I don’t personally hate them or want to commit violence of any sort toward them – to each race their own. I just want America to remain majority White (at least 90% White FOREVER) and I don’t want to mix with other races too much socially or professionally (again, to each race their own), and I ESPECIALLY do not want miscegenation occurring between different racial groups.
    “They want to throw ALL of them out of the US!”
    Many yes, but not ALL of them. A large portion of America’s Blacks have entirely valid historical claims to America, and even though they already form the racial majority in many of America’s counties [ see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Belt_(U.S._region) ] perhaps a Black ethnostate should be carved out of America for Blacks to reside in – they would probably be happier and more free there, more in control of the destiny of their group. Or a very humane, rational, and civil ‘Black to Africa movement’ could be instituted for those Blacks who want to return to their genetic/historical homeland as they are made to realize that in White America they will always be a minority dependent and somewhat under the thumb of America’s White majority no matter how many laws we pass and money we throw at the problems. A decent idea might be to slowly exchange America’s Blacks with the Whites of South Africa – thus Africa regains some of its Blacks (who can take American technology and economic development there to help out) and America gains more Whites.
    The vast majority of recent Hispanic immigrants with shallow roots in America should be repatriated though, yes. Same with Asians.
    “They deny that they part of this nation, as they define American racially!”
    From sea to shining sea, America was conquered, founded, settled, and built as a White country – and it was around 90% White until the early-mid 1960s. America is and has always been a White nation with a historically small Black minority – there is really no disputing this point.
    “They want to get rid of all anti-discrimination laws!”
    There would be no discrimination or racism if racial groups were kept separate (esp. geographically) and were thus free to shape the destiny of their separate groups w/out interference from or the dominance of other groups.
    “They want to separate from all non-Whites and form a White separatist state!”
    Yes I do – and the majority of White nationalists agree with this. In America I’d actually like to form several different White separatist states within the overall USA (for instance, White ethnostates in New England, the South, Pacific Northwest, Midwest, Southwest, Great Plains, etc), each one reflecting differing geographical and cultural characteristics. All of them should remain close to 100% White forever.
    “They want to shut off non-White immigration whatsoever.”
    Yes – most White nationalists would agree with this…it’s a no brainer.
    “MLK and Lincoln are the enemy!”
    They were very misguided ‘reformers’ and rabble-rousers, but I wouldn’t call them ‘the enemy.’ MLK was not much more than a pawn of communist Jews who were trying to undermine White America’s foundations, so he can be personally forgiven a bit. I actually like Malcolm X somewhat because, even though he was militant toward Whites, he was an extreme Black separatist. And OK, as a Southerner I personally consider Lincoln an enemy of sorts, but he was able to keep the union together and he held strongly racialist views himself – that somewhat vindicates him in my eyes.
    “Slavery, segregation, Jim Crow, is all wonderful and the Civil Rights Act and Brown vs BE are the crimes of the century.”
    Slavery was a terrible, horrible, and even evil injustice – it was not wonderful AT ALL. Actually, White Americans can blame Jews to a great extent for importing many African slaves here to the Americas – Jews who were living in large numbers in Charleston, SC, New Orleans, LA, Newport, RI, Virginia/Maryland, Brazil, in the Caribbean, and other major slaving port cities, and they coordinated large portions of the African slave trade with fellow Jews in North Africa and Europe.
    Also, as an aside, think about this: if Blacks hadn’t have been transported here they likely wouldn’t have made it off the African continent on their own until sometime in the 1800s at the earliest – thus slavery actually helped to expand Black African genes all over the Western hemisphere whereas they NEVER would have spread out on their own – as a result of being transported here Blacks now control huge swathes of the USA, Brazil, and straight-up own many Caribbean islands; thus slavery has in some sense been a net positive for African genes, allowing their genes to spread far and wide instead of just staying confined and stuck in Sub-Saharan Africa.
    Only about 5% of plantation-running plutocratic Southern Whites owned the vast majority of the Black slaves, not regular poor Whites (who were the vast majority if the population) with small farms or who lived in cities/towns…and actually some American Blacks actually owned slaves too (look it up).
    Segregation is the natural state of affairs, the way it always was and always will be – people naturally segregate by race because they prefer their own, no controversy there.
    Jim Crow – not praiseworthy, but necessary in some respects.
    Civil Rights Acts – pushed hardest by communist Jews in order to further undermine White America; it accomplished that goal, but it also worked to majorly undermine Black economic self/group sufficiency to a HUGE degree because of too much fostered govt. dependency/welfare. The Civil Rights Act also virtually destroyed the Black conservative movement which used to be quite strong in America, especially amongst Southern Blacks.
    Brown vs. BE was bad on trying to integrate Whites and Blacks in the same schools (remember, segregation is healthy and natural) but good at seeking to provide more Blacks with better educational opportunities, which I fully support.
    That about sums up my views.

  17. Bob’s self-description of social behavior is akin to that of a spiritual guy who realizes sex is a low plane endeavour but who says in the age of Kali Yuga (or after the Fall, if Christian) it’s a positive challenge to repent and “go and sin no….(in Bob’s case some) more.

  18. That AR skeptic friend wouldn’t be Tom Metzger would he?
    I believe there were German “racialists” at the time who disagreed with the “Nordics” and Hitler about Slavs some of who wanted an alliance with Russia against England.

  19. I’d also like to say that being a White nationalist is not the same thing as being a ‘White supremacist’ – I’m not a White supremacist, and I know of other White nationalists who don’t hold supremacist views either.
    I’m also not a ‘racist’ as some might call me in that I don’t automatically hate or harbor intrinsic prejudice toward any racial/ethnic group (except Jews); while I am personally anti-Jewish, there are some White nationalists who are pro-Jewish, and even some ethnically Jewish White nationalists. I am not necessarily anti-Black, anti-Asian, anti-Hispanic, etc (see my above post for my views on this). The whole White nationalist movement as a whole is a very disparate collection of widely differing views and beliefs and is not at all easily pigeonholed.
    So, just to be clear: being a White nationalist does not necessarily mean that a person is a virulently racist White supremacist.

  20. The only reason Whites would possibly become White Separatists is if they really can’t stand non-Whites. I’ve met a few WN’s who fit that definition, but not too many. I mean, if they’re ok, why not live around em?
    How many White nationalists befriend, date, have sex with and marry non-Whites? Isn’t that pretty anathema in the movement?

  21. Silver, then I would say just don’t breed with them. But you can still live with them. This is what the Whites of Latin America have often done.
    However, I think that I agree with you. Once an area gets heavily mixed, US Whites just start breeding out in large numbers. This is surely the case here in California. In particular, they are breeding in with Hispanics bigtime, possibly because Hispanics are heavily White already, so there is a lot of racial connection.
    I think if you guys really want to preserve your White race, you will have to separate yourselves. Whites will not respond to exhortations to not breed with non-Whites. Around here in this part of California, even the White Supremacist street gang members often have Mexican gf’s! The White Supremacist prison gangs here in CA now have a rule that says Mexicans may join if they are at least 51% Mexican! LOL. I guess that means the Whites don’t have any numbers in the prisons and they are desperate for some strength.

  22. Well, I think being around Whites is great for Blacks. They seem to act so much better when they are few in #’s, a small minority among Whites or Hispanics. We have some Blacks living around me here who are doing pretty well considering that at core, they are pretty Ghetto people. The only reason they are moving into some place between Ghetto and Assimilated now is due to the good influence of the Whites and Hispanics they are living with. If these people were living with a bunch of other low income Blacks, they would go Ghetto in a NY minute and they would just be so nuked.
    Now, is Blacks living with Whites good for Whites. At lower income levels, decidedly not! At higher incomes, I don’t think it matters much.
    Smart Blacks have figured this out. No Black with any brains or sense is a separatist.
    There is evidence as you suggest that the upper middle class in Latin America is starting to mix a lot more with Mestizos, mulattos, Blacks and even Indians. As long as the person has no $, people hardly care anymore. It’s more about class than race. A White guy from Venezuela told me that in his upper middle class White circles, there was a lot of dating with Mestizos, mulattos and some Blacks. He was in Peru visiting the Peruvian upper middle class and he said the same thing is going on there now. These are the young people. They’re not into the racist BS of their elders.

  23. Hi Silver, I am going to completely pass on the question of “Whether people would be happier”.
    As a pragmatist, I am just going to say that it’s not going to happen. South Africans have set up some thing called Orania as a White colony, but so far only 1,500 people have showed up.
    One thing I like about Fred Scrooby is that I don’t think he hates other races too much. He just loves his own. Not too common with that crowd.

  24. I resent your generalizations about white nationalists/racialists. The unfortunate reality is that multiculturalists (in practice, the white genocide movement) have the power, and even such benign concepts as “white pride” have been stigmatized as “hate”.
    Myself, I do not find the current racial mix in the US to be objectionable. Blacks have been here as long as most white families, so I find it hard to swallow any argument that they “don’t belong” even though the culture and mindset many of them have (recently) adopted is toxic. Asians are, for the most part, pretty well-assimilated and Hispanics (like Muslims in Europe) are opportunistic immigrants whose presence is still small enough to be tolerable.
    The crisis that we face is that whites, since 1960, have been engaged in a self-destructive spiral of excessive tolerance (appeasement) and identity-driven guilt mongering. To this day, many whites (especially those in power) think or at least publicly avow that organizations like NAACP and NCLR are “fighting the good fight”. While things like white privilege and white self-segregation exist on an individual level, our politicians and business elites are conducting a campaign to marginalize the white middle and lower class. Business leaders and upper middle class families alike benefit from the perennial importation of a new slave class.
    Because the multiculturalism hegemony dominates the national conversation, anyone who opposes them must band together, even if it means associating with people who hold far more radical views. With every illegal immigrant who births a “citizen”, every H1B worker who gains citizenship, and every amnesty pledge, the cause to preserve our national identity becomes even more urgent. The day is soon approaching when true immigration reform becomes an inconceivable “third rail”, and we are doomed not just to become merely a plurality, but to gradually become a minority to the ever-increasing southern invasion until our standard of living is so low as to no longer attract South American immigrants.
    The antagonistic mentality you observe among RR/WN is the reaction of a cornered animal. We recognize (consciously or otherwise) that we are on the verge of a threshold from which there can be no return. There is no doubt in my mind that when whites become 40% or less of the population there will be a much increased sense of racial unity, but must we wait for this to happen? And once we get there, will we still have the political clout to prevent massive injustices against whites?
    (I use blacks to represent non-Asian minorities because I find the Hispanic and “other” designations nebulous and in many cases representative of non-racial factors)
    I know from reading your blog that you agree with much of what I’ve said. But the conflation of RR/WN/WS attitudes just marginalizes everyone (including yourself). Race realists may frequently express views that sound like white supremacy, when in fact they are just (exasperatedly) exaggerated factual observations about the racial reality in America. Are all blacks inherently violent? Certainly not, there are a great many upstanding American black citizens. But the statistics certainly indicate that blacks are much greater perpetrators of violent crimes in America today. Are all blacks dumb? Going by standardized tests, on average, an emphatic yes. But there are certainly many black students who perform better on these tests than some white students.
    Acknowledging these realities, as only race realists are willing to do, does naturally lead to an inclination towards white separatism and feelings of white supremacy. Not acknowledging them is essentially enabling toxic black and spanish-speaking cultural norms. But there is a subtle difference between saying “blacks are inferior to whites” and “all blacks are naturally inferior to all whites”. However, most people would take both statements to imply a white separatist/supremacist view. Just because a small percentage of non-Asian minorities are assimilable and even beneficial to our communities does not invalidate observations about those communities at large.
    Philosophically there are major distinctions between race realists, white separatists, and white supremacists. But practically, race realism (and the realities of today’s USA) leads to many of the same conclusions as white separatists and white supremacists. To stigmatize someone who makes statements that can be interpreted as supremacist or separatist without taking a full survey of their views (as you obviously cannot by merely reading a blog post or comment) amounts to self-righteous infighting. And as great as it would be to find a mainstream-acceptable middle ground among race realists, the reality is that we are in no position to exclude potential supporters just because their views are too extreme.
    Just look at the success the NAACP has achieved, despite (or perhaps because of) their acceptance and even celebration of extremists like Farrakhan.

  25. racerealist: “and Hispanics (like Muslims in Europe) are opportunistic immigrants whose presence is still small enough to be tolerable.”
    That is not true AT ALL – Hispanics are growing by leaps and bounds in the USA and are already the majority (or approaching the majority) of the population in many states, especially very important ones like California and Texas; see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minority-majority_state
    Around HALF of all young children (judged by elementary school enrollments) in many parts of America are now non-White. In only a few decades (estimated to be around 2040 – WHICH ONLY 30 YEARS FROM NOW!), Whites will dip below 50% of America’s population – and this is due entirely to the Hispanic/Latino immigrant invasion/colonization. This is an irreversible disaster from which American Whites will likely never recover and will eventually turn America in a more corrupt, unequal, overcrowded, and polluted country. A nation’s culture and economy is shaped by its ethnic/racial makeup…and right now the USA is sliding backwards or de-evolving in this respect.
    The big group to worry about is, of course, Hispanics/Latinos. Hispanic/Latino immigration should to America should be shut off IMMEDIATELY, and the border between Mexico and the USA should be permanently locked-down and militarized. Illegal immigrants should be expelled by the millions (though orderly and calmly, not hastily and violently), and their children should as well even if they were born here. When as many as possible have been removed, the USA should then work to help improve the economies of Latin America so that they don’t feel the need to move here for jobs. We also need to educate them strongly about birth control, because a good many of them are leaving Mexico and Central America because they are running out of basic resources (water, food, farmland, firewood/fuel, etc) there because of overpopulation.
    A good argument I’ve used lately against the race-replacers is…Hispanics/Latinos already control ALL of the land in the Western hemisphere from Mexico southwards…so why do they feel the need to push northward to control even more territory? I mean, isn’t Mexico, all of the Central American countries, and all of South America enough land for them? Why do they need to need to colonize OUR country when they already have over 20 countries [Mexico + all of Central America + all of the South American countries] of their own?

  26. I’m not denying that the Mexican invasion has already claimed parts of the US. However, it’s simply not feasible to just throw out the millions of Mexicans who already have legal citizenship. When you take out the illegals and the resident aliens, the Hispanic population drops significantly.
    Anyway, you kind of missed my point. To a certain extent we have to accept that many Mexicans are here to stay. We can only stop the bleeding.
    We can’t just turn back the clock to 1960. What’s done is done. We need to focus on the present and the future.
    1. Repudiate amnesty, and any attempt to streamline naturalization or increase visas
    2. Repeal the 14th amendment, which grants birthright citizenship.
    3. Enforce and toughen immigration laws – deport illegals expeditiously, defend the border, and deny benefits to non-citizens
    With regards to your last point, Mestizos believe (as descendants of indigenous Americans) that the entire American landmass is rightfully theirs. Take a look at how well the “can’t we just have this one little piece” argument has fared for Israel in the Arab world.

  27. It’s no surprising “race realism” leads to supremacist views. Essentially “race realism” is one more in a series of euphemisms invented to avoid acknowledging one is a racist and furthermore is trying to rationalize one’s racism in a comfortable way. It’s an intellectually bankrupt position, since it assumes one can predict the future behavior of a human group according to its present behavior. History offers plenty of counterexamples.

  28. I’m a white who once bought into the Myth of Marvelous Multiculturalism. As I have grown older I have outgrown the White Messianic Complex that afflicted me in my youth. I now find myself longing for the company of sympathetic fellow Whites Like Me. Living in Texas, this is increasing difficult to do due to open borders, the reversal of our former whites-only immigration policy, and Liberal Ideologues who have coerced me to live according to their values. If I were free, I would certainly choose to live in a whites-only neighborhood, go to a whites-only gym, and send my children to white-only schools. Unfortunately, the government has decided that non-whites are deprived if they cannot associate with me. It has decided, in the absence of a trial that I, and all other whites, owe non-whites compensation for the “crime” of preferring to associate with our own kind, and thereby depriving non-whites of our company. The government has decided that the way to effect this compensation is to curtail the constitutional rights of whites. This is done by punishing whites for publicly saying things that might hurt black feelings; forcing whites to integrate with blacks in schools, neighborhoods and businesses; nationalizing private white-owned businesses and forcing them to hire unwanted black employees; depriving whites of the right to decide who may or may not come onto their property; redistributing the wealth of the rich (whites) to the poor (non-whites); denying whites equal protection under the laws (since everyone knows n-words can’t be expected to adhere to the same standards as whites); setting lower academic standards for non-whites than for whites; disallowing whites-only scholarship foundations, but allowing non-whites-only foundations; hiring disproportionate numbers of non-white, sub-qualified government employees whose incompetence, laziness and corruption inflates the national deficit; depriving whites of tax-exempt, racially exclusive, collective bargaining associations that non-whites enjoy (like the NAACP); and forcing whites to practice the religion of Egalitarianism, even when they don’t believe it. Call me racist if you will. I’m just a white who prefers my own race. So what? I’m no different than a homosexual who prefers his own sex. As such I deserve at least the same protection that queers get.

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