Let's Hear It For Population Decline

Population decline in 2009 in red - purple means population decline coming soon
Population decline in 2009 in red - purple means population decline coming soon
Give it a one, give it a two, give it a three cheers for population decline! One thing I hate about ethnic nationalists all over the world is that they are pro-natalist. Of all the horrible things on Earth to do, to cheer on women for overpopulating this ruined planet…my God. This is one thing that ultranationalists all over the Earth seem to be on the same page with, last time I checked, though maybe Chinese nationalists are immune from it. In the 1920’s and 1930’s, a hallmark of European fascism that spread like wildfire across the continent was pro-natalism. Lamentably, even Communists like Ceausescu got into this, though hardly any Commies anywhere want to claim that monster. Stalin outlawing abortion was a pro-natalist move, but then, Comrade Stalin had some fascist tendencies sometimes. What about Hindutvas? What’s their position on natalism? Pro or anti? I wonder what the position of say, Japanese, Korean, Vietnamese, Filipino, Arab ultranationalists is? Ultranationalists in Russia have never seen anything so horrible. Capitalists in the West are all upset about population decline in Italy. I guess that means no more pasta and Michelangelos or Sophia Lorens. I will say that population decline due to declining life expectancy below a certain age is not a good thing. This is what is happening in the Eastern Bloc and Russia. Life expectancy decline is occurring in Ukraine, Belarus, Russia, Latvia, Lithuania, Hungary and Bulgaria. You idiots wanted to go from socialism to capitalism, and look what happened. Capitalism is killing you off! Fools. In Africa, population decline is occurring in Swaziland and Zimbabwe due to AIDS and in Darfur apparently due  to genocide. Amazing, the only place on Earth that genocide is actually reducing population numbers, and the Left won’t utter a peep, because their lovable Arab and Muslim monsters are doing the Final Solutioning. If only evil Jews or Americans were doing the Holocausting, our ears would never stop ringing. Considering that the present population density of these African states cannot be maintained without utter destruction of the natural environment, maybe there is some horrible Malthusian logic working here.

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19 thoughts on “Let's Hear It For Population Decline”

  1. Don’t you think there’s a difference between countries that face fast decline and could lose a lot of their wealth and internal stability.
    If the population pyramid inverts too fastly, like it is now in China, Italy and Eastern Europe, what do you think this will do to social solidarity? I don’t think groups of ever smaller young cohorts will even be able to support ever larger cohorts of old people. Because ageing, we will.
    Immigration isn’t much of an answer to this problem either, because A) immigrants age too and B) immigrants need a long time to integrate (or we must select them better, but most nations, especially Western nations, just won’t do that.)
    Bob, I like your blog, but please don’t politicize every issue into a left or a right thing. Pro-natalism could appeal to ethno-nationalists for obvious reasons, but it is not a rightist issue per se and it never was. Pro-natalism doesn’t have to be aimed at increasing population, just aimed at providing stability by slowing down fast population decline or a rapid demographic transition. What’s so bad about supporting young people to have slightly larger families than they’re able to without such support.
    But maybe we explain pro-natalism differently. I would argue for a small extra subsidy for a second or third child (not the fourth) per family and some laws that make it possible for women (if they want to), to stay at home for a while (without getting fired). Maybe employers could get together with unions and politicians to make a part-time work for men more socially acceptable and career wise less damning.

  2. The young have always supported their elders in China. It’s normal behavior and it’s not a problem to get anyone to do it. The Chinese state doesn’t even have Social Security. They just rely on families.
    I have a friend in Italy and he assures me that this is no problem. I don’t see any old versus young wars opening up anytime soon.
    We have to get used to the idea that people that humans can keep on working past age 65. My Mom is working fulltime at age 76 and I don’t see why others can’t do the same. My Dad was working fulltime into his 80’s. With everyone taking mandatory retirement at age 65, it won’t work.
    I’ve never seen a single rightwinger anywhere on Earth who supports negative population growth. Can you point me to one. I’m not sure how the Left feels about it, but the environmentalist negative population growth crowd are all liberals last time I checked.
    There is a serious problem with the Idiot Left, as we lost them on this issue a long time ago. Long ago these cretins decided that population control was a Western plot against the Third World and a way to keep from dividing things up fairly. Nowadays, the Left is as insane on ZPG and NPG as the craziest libertarians. I would not say it’s a right vs left thing at all.

  3. I knew there was a tiny spark of decency in you somewhere, Silver. Like the ancient Gnostics who believed that all men were completely rotten and worldly but all of us have this tiny spark of pure light and goodness inside of us, waiting to be lit. The Gnostic thing was about finding that spark and torching it up.

  4. GREENLAND faces population decline? Why? Is someone ill? LOL. Oh, the map’s from wiki…
    Funnily enough, I heard James Lovelock (originator of the Gaia notion) on the radio the other day, saying that the Earth could not support more than 1 billion people sustainably, and that 6 billion were going to die off. He seemed quite cheerful about it. I always had the idea that he was a ‘goody…
    I haven’t heard anyone on the right spell it out, but I have seen some discussions about controlling immigration in the face of global warming, and the elites seem positively hostile to doing anything about same. This may just be down to the inherent impossibility for the capitalist system to be geared to anything but profit, but it may be that they have made the calculation that warming will be self-corrective, that it will kill off all those Indians and Chinese who might aspire to Western levels of carbon output – not to mention 1 billion muslims, who are ‘seen as a problem’ by an ‘influential element’ within the elite.

  5. Capitalists do not want to kill off all those Chinese and Indians man. Come on LS. Capitalism is based on endless economic growth and that’s hard to do without endlessly growing population. Maybe it’s impossible. Fatal flaw of capitalism if you ask me.

  6. Silver, you obviously have not known many Leftwingers. We are very happy people, even though we think the system sucks. We like to drink, screw and take dope. We’re into having fun and not into being morose and anxiety ridden. The Western Left is all about hedonism.

  7. OK Silver, I admit, I have a sense a fatalism, but in my life I’ve seen immigration levels only go one way: up. I’m sure it’s possible that they go down as well, but I hope to live and see it. I’m 29 now. Also, even though most people are completely against Third Worldization and prefer their countries the way they are. Until this changes, I think I have a right to be skeptical, no?
    I’ve rarely seen the immigration restrictionist side to be represented as a valid faction with valid points, like, say the terror experts, the global warming experts, the crime experts, the pro-immigrationists or even the racism experts.
    I don’t want to be a fatalist at all, I just call it as I see it.

  8. No, truthisntleftorright, the anti-illegals groups have all merged, and they got tons of money from some Silicon Valley fat cat. And here in the US, they have been running anti-illegals commercials on CNN and Fox quite regularly. It’s really bizarre to see; I have never seen anything like this in my life. It must be the economy. And there are now protests in the UK by oil workers over their companies bringing in foreign workers just to work for cheap.
    And for the first time in ages, the Left is supporting American workers against foreigners. The Left is coming out against guest worker programs in general and the insane H-2B outrage in particular. We still haven’t heard anything about the H-1B cancer and the Left won’t say one peep against their beloved illegals.
    And legal immigration is set to go full speed ahead with no restrictions or anything. One thing did change after 9-11 – it’s quite hard for any Arab Muslims to immigrate legally to the US in any way. They really tightened the screws on that one.
    You have to understand Silver. The guy’s a fanatic White nationalist.
    He thinks that a total cutoff of all immigration (or at least non-White immigration), support for a Eugenics program that will help Whites and hurt Blacks and Hispanics, and racial separatism whereby Whites, Hispanics and Blacks all carve off parts of US and secede, along with convincing a vast majority of Whites to go along with White nationalism/White racism, is just around the corner.
    If you try to talk sense to him about any of this, he gets all upset.

  9. It’s shameful that the Left is lacking it’s historical mission to help the working classes. I think that is one of their best qualities.

  10. Dear Robert
    Your comments on population decline are rather superficial because you don’t discuss the speed of decline. A fertility rate of 1.8 is not the same as a fertility rate 1.05. In the first case, each generation will be 1/7 smaller than the previos one, and in the second case, each generation will be only 1/2 of the previous one. That’s not te same in terms of consequences. It is the same with population growth. A doubling every 100 years is much easier to handle than a doubling every 25 years, although no population growth can continue indefinitely.
    Silver is rigt in that fertility becomes an ethnic issue in multi-ethnic states. Suppose that in Ruritania there are greens and blues, that the greens are 65% of the population and have a fertility of 1.5 and that the blues are 35% of the population and have a fertility rate of 3, then eventually the blues will become the majority. Different fertility rates can dramatically alter power relations in countries with racial, ethnic and religious diversity. It is another argument against diversity.
    In terms of ideology, we can say that the religious are outbreeding the non-religious in all Western countries. Mormons and evangelicals in the US have higher fertility than agnostics and atheists. In a German publication I read recently something about the fertility of politicians. Not surprisingly, the Greens and Leftists had the fewest children, the Christian Democrats had the most and the Liberals and Socialdemocrats were inbetween. As you say, many leftitsts are hedonists, too hedonistic, in fact, to have children. Needless to say, the future does not belong to child-averse hedonists.
    Regards. James

  11. Africa’s genocide isn’t mainly from Muslim extremist views. It’s tribal wars from those who are mainly competing for resources available and also as retribution to what the other side did to it. They could both be of the same religion.
    The middle eastern population isn’t breeding like rabbits as you might view it. Some Palestinian and Jordanian, etc. families may choose to have 5 children, but it’s not a threat to Europe. Other Arabs don’t whole-heartedly support either.
    Any final solution being done isn’t being done by Muslims, and the traces of it are found in the IDF war crimes, discrimination and mass killings, being funded by America.
    I’m against pro-natalists, BIG TIME, and I don’t mean death to all people, I mean as in there are those who want Growth for Growth’s sake. Even when telling them that we have to poison our agriculture with chemicals and ruin their quality to sustain an ever-growing population, and that how are we to build mega gigantic skyscrapers within 20 years? Even then, are we supposed to move the world into them? Are we to kill our environment? Why does god want as much people as possible?
    European and American societies are generally those that are pro-natalist.
    They want people to live forever and ever, whilst wanting more and more people. This contributes to a packed, overpopulated world where diseases spread fast, the earth’s climate changes and it cannot sustain everyone. Thanks to capitalistic views, excessive consumption fuels this. Business looking for the most profit to sustain a few rich people may sell things like electronics and other items which require an ever increasing population to sell these. In these country types, people seek money for things like Mansions and loads of material wealth. Side note: countries like Iran, who knows, but other Arab nations do not promote excessive child growth.
    The reason we are not successful with Africa is that we are sending shipments of money and aid. This is like giving a man a fish, instead of teaching him how to fish, but even then it’s like giving a corrupt man a fish due to dictators siphoning it off. Even if some how we solve world hunger and water problems, we are now increasing the lifespan of everyone, and even then if they do get richer, the number of children they have may still be 2 or 3 and will now seek expensive products in which their production harms the environment. I think the objective here should be to have less people (and even then to reduce the amount of large scale wealth they may seek) but a better quality of life in a world where we can all care for each other and the environment.
    That is true that religious people tend to have more children, however, as religions like Mormonism promote multiple wives and children, which reside in the U.S. even though it is illegal meanwhile all the attention is going to make sure Arabs won’t commit polygamy here, even though that rarely ever happens. Other groups like the Catholic church are all anti-abortion and act as if they are the only caring people in the world, and do not realize that blindly having many children, excessive consumptions and lack of environmental concern (I mean come on the programs run today don’t really tackle the root of the problem) in most cases makes life worse for those who exist. Less breathing space, space to move and enjoy this creation which is Earth, less food, more diseases, etc. Religions like Hinduism and Jainism literally promote multiple children and celebrate sexual promiscuity, places like india with families having 8 children at a time demonstrate this. Islam, despite the fact that it does not explicitly call for more and more children and needless growth, is putting people in a position where they have to keep supporting those who overpopulate the environment and worsen the problem all together.
    Now, i realize this may seem more of a rant than a responsive statement, but I’m not trying to start a fight or attack anyone, im just laying out situations and if any of these statements seem to be awkward, I’d be interested in hearing a rebuttal and maybe put out a thoughtful conversation about such concepts.

    1. It’s not a good thing. It’s just that 3rd World elites like to say that the whole problem with their country is too many people. Therefore, it will always be a horrible impoverished shithole as long as there are too many people. The Communists have shown us that “too many people” is not an excuse to have whole nations living in the most miserable poverty.

  12. That is why their lives are a mess, why they cram each other ten to an inner city apartment, a motley collection of lesbians, artistes, Buddhists, sharing their laments about why life “just doesn’t make any sense”, their only point of agreement being that “the rich” are somehow to blame for it all.
    What’s your problem with lesbians, really? Get mugged by one lately?
    If white preservationists just wanted to peacefully preserve their genotype/phenotype, what would be wrong with that? Nothing. But in reality way too many really are hatemongers who always need somebody to hate.

  13. Countries can get along quite well with a populatin decline. But they must make realistic choices that they have refused to make up until now. All people especially government employees must work much longer. No retirment at 50 or 55 or 60. The state budget must be balanced. No more freebies paid for with debt. Trade must be balanced. Western countries have to actually produced something besides dollar bills and IOU’s.
    The population decline will help reduce the stress on world resources, declining fish stocks, lack of growth in oil supply, and less pollution.

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