The "Jews are Khazars, Not From Palestine" Nonsense

The age-old “Jews are Khazars, not from Palestine” thing has come up in the comments again. It’s too bad we have to refute this thing. It’s actually an interesting question, and Alfred Koestler, Jewish, wrote an interesting book on it called The 13th Tribe. Unfortunately, anti-Semites and especially anti-Zionists have gotten a hold of it and use it to say that Jews do not come from Palestine and hence have no right to it.
Ok, first of all, whether or not Jews come from Palestine or Khazaria 2000 years has no bearing on whether they have a right to colonize Palestine and throw out the natives. They have no such right. 2000 year old land deeds not being redeemable and all.
I know this guy, and he has done some excellent work on this stuff – it’s the best out there. He’s Jewish, his name is Kevin Brook, and he started out believing in the Khazaria thing, but his research led him to more or less refute it.
Let us put this another way. 13% of Ashkenazi Jews have some Khazarian genes. About 3% have considerable Khazarian genes.
There have been an incredible number of genetic studies of Jews recently (many or all of them are summarized on the Khazaria page). The results are very confusing, but the best summary is that Ashkenazi Jews are mostly from the Middle East, and in part from whatever country in Europe they come from.
They are most closely related to Palestinians, Syrians, Iraqis and Lebanese Arabs – the Arabs of the Levant and Mesopotamia. Before that, there is a strong relationship to the Kurds, Turks and Armenians. This follows Biblical teachings that the Jews originally came from northern Iraq before they settled in Middle East. There are a few Ashkenazi Jews who are pure Slavs and are related to the Sorbs and the Belorussians.
The Ashkenazi Jews left the Middle East between 1 and 500 AD and settled in Southern Europe, then moving up into Europe. In the first 500 years, there was some interbreeding with European populations, mostly Jewish men mating with Gentile women. Then after about 1000 AD, Talmudic Judaism took hold, and Jews bred almost exclusively among themselves.
The Ashkenazi Jews are Khazars, not from Palestine, thing has been refuted.

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81 thoughts on “The "Jews are Khazars, Not From Palestine" Nonsense”

  1. There have been an incredible number of genetic studies of Jews recently. The results are very confusing, but the best summary is that Ashk Jews are mostly from Palestine, and in part from whatever country in Europe they come from. There are a few Ashk Jews who are pure Slavs and are related to the Sorbs and the Belorussians.
    My impression was that the research indicates that the male line is mostly Middle Eastern but that the female line comes mainly from SE Europe (i.e. not so much the country that the Jews happen to live in), suggesting considerable intermarriage when the Ashkenazim (or proto-Ashkenazim) first entered Europe.

    1. “There have been an incredible number of genetic studies of Jews recently. The results are very confusing, but the best summary is that Ashk Jews are mostly from Palestine, and in part from whatever country in Europe they come from. ”
      I think those studies are overtly biased and not based on evidence so much as the belief that the mainstream scientists hold. History tells us exactly where the Ashkenazi come from and it isn’t ancient Palestine. Arthur Koestler is only one voice proclaiming this historical fact, there are many others that came before him and many others since that attest that modern Jewry in Israel is made up of over 95% Khazarian “Jews”, people who have no genetic link to Abraham.
      Anti-semitism is a misnomer. Semites are not a racial group they are a linguistic group. Arabs are Semites yet they are accused of antisemitism, how ridiculous! The term should be “Anti-Khazar” or something that resembles the truth. The main point is that people calling themselves “Jews” are not really jews at all and they are manipulating and lying to the world concerning their true heritage.
      They brutally cleansed Palestine back in 1948, doing exactly what the Nazis did to them during Hitler’s reign. They continue to persecute and murder Palestinians, they continue to break international law and the mainstream media says nothing about it! Yet when an Arab or Persian country (like Iran) is accused of breaking international law the whole western world threatens war against them. Iran has allowed U.N. inspectors to look over their nuclear energy programs while modern Israel, who have nuclear missiles, refuse to allow anyone to inspect their nuclear programs. There is a blatant double-standard going on in the International community and it all stems from the guilt of the “Holocaust”, something that has been greatly exaggerated and used for financial and political gain.

    1. The study mentioned going back 2600 years ago, yet used the word “Jew”? That’s a bit suspicious I think. Was the person a Jew, one of the lost 10 tribes, a Hebrew, or a European? Who’s making up the rules? What baseline is being used to determine who’s who and whats what? The science of genetics is too young and there are to many unknowns at this point to learn anything specific about a people who have co-mingled with so many different groups (for various reasons) over the past 1900 years or so.

  2. Are the Ashkenazi even Khazars? Maybe the true ashkenazi, ie the group that left the middle east and went into europe. There may be three groups, ashkenazi, khazars and the sephardi. And Khazars are mistaken to be Ashkenazim but they aren’t. The Khazars are the vast majority of Jews. Ashkenazim around 20% of all Jews, Khazars 70, Sephardic 10.

  3. Kevin Brook’s book is excellent; a rarely interesting piece of history, though there’s a lot to just skim over unless you have a professional interest – in fact, I was wondering if you’d read it, because I thought youo would find the gened stuff fascinating. I note that, roughly as you say, he amended the second edition to take into account new genetic research. Point 1. I’d like to know more about this genetic research – who conducted it, funded it, what peer reviews, etc, because 2. he didn’t qualify his recantation enough for my tastes – giving the impression it was a quick add-on to assuage bloodthirsty zionists – but I appreciate that giving it more attention would have necessitated considerable new research, so he just noted the new findings. Point 3. BUT this leaves the question of how, if the whole of Khazaria (and he seems to believe that) became jewish, their genes came to be swamped by an influx of jews from Europe – where did these huge numbers of jews come from? I failed to find Brook’s estimation of the size of the Khazar population.
    The gene research showed that most Ashkenazis can be traced back to the Mid E., NOT PALESTINE, specifically – it actually showed that the Kurds were the mostly closely related modern population, and to quote one source ‘ Kurdish people migrated from the Eurasian steppes in the second millennium B.C. and joined indigenous inhabitants living in the region.’ How far back do you go? And does it matter?
    It seems to be pretty well accepted that, at the time of the ‘dispersal’ (?) there were more jews living outside Judea than in it. Also, there is doubt that the dispersal ever happened. I read something recently about a recent work by a plausible historian ( name forgotten) who pointed out that there are no literary accounts of the dispersal, no evidence for it, and that this was not common Roman practice. It is certain that the temple was destroyed and many were barred from Jerusalem, but the rest is contentious. Whatever, we know how the Babylonian jewish community came to be, but how did the jews come to be scattered all round the Mediterranean, in seemingly sizeable quantities?
    When we last hear of the jews in the Old Testament, they are under Greek rule. Prior to this they had been a usually land-locked small hill tribe. When they show up in Roman accounts, it’s often as famously wealthy merchants, and they are scattered around the Mediterranean in copious quantities. Most, if not all, writing on this period discusses developments in jewish religion and nothing else. The most promising book I’ve found is ‘ Jews in the Mediterranean Diaspora: From Alexander to Trajan (323 BCE-117CE) (Hellenistic Culture and Society)’ by John M.G. Barclay, but it’s expensive and I haven’t looked at it yet – I’d guess that whatever can be known is in there, and I’d also guess that it doesn’t really tell much about where all these jews came from.
    ESSENTIAL, however, is Finkesltein and Silberman’s ‘ the Bible Unearthed’ which is a very readable account of the latest archeological findings and a discussion of the implications re the truth of the Bible – e.g. the Torah (they surmise) was commissioned by King Josiah around 600 BC for propaganda purposes, there was no distinct jewish people who came out of Egypt, David ruled a small hill tribe, Solomon never existed… They believe that a major reason to be for the Judean state was control of the traffic in goods over the land routes between the Red Sea ports and the Phoenician trader ports of Tyre and Sidon. This, I think, is the heart of the matter. We have the story of King Omri (supposedly c.800 BC) strengthening ties with the Phoenicians by marrying his son Ahab to the Phoenician King’s daughter Jezebel. Could ‘strengthening ties’ include, for instance, access for Judean traders to Phoenician merchant vessels to set up their own trading posts in Phoenician colonies, and eventually ownership of their own vessels, so they could have both ends of the trade from the Red Sea? Not unlikely, given what we know of human practice. Both Judea and Phoenicia were Assyrian client states for a long time, so there can have been no great obstacles to close commercial ties. The map I have seen of the jewish diaspora at the time of the ‘dispersal’ shows jewish populations scattered all round the Black Sea, North Africa, and Sicily – first, under Assyria and then Persia, they would spread through the Phoenician colonies including Carthage; then, under Alexander’s successor’s, throughout the Greek Black Sea colonies. So, by the time the Romans wiped out Carthage in 149 BC there had been at least 600 years for the jewish diaspora to build up a mass. In fact, is it accurate to call it a diaspora? By the time of Christ most jews would be indigenous to other lands, looking to Judea in the way Christians look to Rome, or Muslims to Mecca, as the home of the temple. And, it seems, Judaism was a converting religion at this time, which would also add bulk. I think it not unlikely that, after the fall of Carthage, given that the Romans wanted to erase the memory of Carthage, that most Carthaginian merchants were allowed to continue trading provided they converted to Judaism, and denied their inheritance – it would be in no-one’s interst to write of this.
    Whatever, by the time of the end of the Khazar kingdom, there had been easily 2000 years for the jewish ‘diaspora’ to build up bulk, so Brook’s conclusion is not implausible. But it doesn’t show that the most Jews had their origin in Palestine.

  4. Well, Jews are sort of Khazars, a little bit, I mean some of them are…anyway, it’s complicated. There’s a Khazarian component to a minority of Askh Jews, but it’s only 13% and it’s not a big part of them. About 3% of Ashk Jews have lots of Khazarian, so they could almost be Khazars, I guess. One out of 30 might be good for the lottery, but it’s no good for generalizations about humans.
    I was wondering if you were Jewish. We need some more Jews around here to add some balance to the anti-Semites. Plus, this blog is officially Jew-friendly! Even says so in the comments. Actually, we could use some Jews in my town. We should export 5,000 illegal aliens and import 5,000 Jews. Hey, one of them might even give me a job.

  5. Fascinating. You have really done some research. It is the Caucasian Mountain Jews, I think, who may be Khazarian. Some Ashk Jews do not even go back to Palestine. They are just pure Slavs, related to Belorussians and Sorbs. I think there are not too many like that, though. Some of those with Levi and related names may be pure Slavs.
    Yeah, that’s the thing. Both anti-Semites and Jews are obsessed with the Jews. They’re like a mirror image of each other. I have gotten called anti-Semite a lot by Super-Jews, but it’s not true. At least I hope it’s not. I am an anti-Zionist, and I criticize everyone. I actually banned a couple of guest posters (not commenters, actual blog posters) for obsessive and excessive anti-Semitism. I kept telling them to knock it off, but they just can’t help themselves, you know.
    The Holocaust revisionists are really a trip. They claim it never happened, but they obviously want to do again.

    1. “The Holocaust revisionists are really a trip. They claim it never happened, but they obviously want to do again.”
      Hmm? Odd, I’ve never heard David Irving talk about rounding up jewish people and killing them en mass, have you?
      Holocaust revisionists don’t claim there wasn’t a holocaust, only that the majority of the claims of the supposed “eye-witnesses” were in fact lies told to strengthen the invasion that was imminent (1948) on Palestine.
      Why have mainstream scientists and historians “revised” the number of Jews supposedly murdered at Auschwitz (from 4 million down to 1.1 million)?
      The scientists and academics that work at Auschwitz openly admit that the original numbers supplied by the Soviet communists (4 million dead Jews) were erroneous and the real figure (their opinion) is that 1.1 million Jews were “gassed”, not 4 million. Since they themselves made this revision why hasn’t the official number of six million Jews murdered been adjusted to reflect the new information from Auschwitz? If 1.1 million died at Auschwitz then the aggregate should be reduced to 3 million. Why hasn’t the original figure been adjusted?
      Revisionist Historians like David Irving put the real number of dead at anywhere between 60,000-360,00. Reconnaissance photos that the allies took during the height of the supposed extermination of the Jews (1942-1943) show no exterminations at all by way of mythical “gas chambers”.
      The truth is that most prisoners (over 90%), Jew and Gentile alike, died from Typhus, starvation, and old age. When the allies began their bombing campaign on Germany they targeted transportation, i.e., trains, roads, bridges, etc., which destroyed the German supply lines and led to mass starvation in Germany.
      In war you feed the troops first, then your own citizens, then your prisoners. Over 90% of those supposedly murdered by the Nazi, in fact, died from disease and starvation. We can blame the allies equally for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of prisoners in work camps, just as we blame Germany.
      The confessions taken from German officers before and during the Nuremberg trials were gotten through torture. Any confession made by way of torture is no confession at all.
      What about the Fire bombing of Dresden? The allies murdered 125,000 German citizens for no reason other then revenge. Dresden served no military purpose, had no great number of German troops quartered there, so why did the allies murder 125,000 innocent civilians?
      The truth is that millions of Gentiles were murdered during WWII, innocent people who hadn’t taken up arms against anyone. Why are they not remembered? Are Jewish lives worth more then Gentile lives?
      Anti-semetism was created to protect a criminal Jewish-elite. Many countries have passed laws to protect on race over the other races, thus creating more conflict. When a country passes a law protecting one citizen over another that nation is inviting chaos and conflict. One law for all people, no one race should be protected or raised above another.

  6. Lafayette Sennacherib said: ” I read something recently about a recent work by a plausible historian ( name forgotten) ..”
    The Israeli historian is Schlomo Sand. He suggests the diaspora was the consequence, not of the expulsion of the Hebrews from Palestine, but of proselytising across north Africa, southern Europe and the Middle East.

  7. That Schlomo Sand book is pretty interesting stuff. Consider that at one time, the Roman Empire was 7% Jewish. No way did they all come from Palestine. Somehow they shrunk to a tiny minority. What happened? Many must have converted out.

  8. Bukharian jews live (used to live) mostly in Uzbekistan (one of the republic of former USSR ) and it is not typical for them to live in Georgia. The name Bukharian says for itself, as it is derived from the word Bukhara, which is the city in Uzbekistan. Lets say the fact that your grandmother was a bukharian jew from Georgia is a rare case. Jews of Georgia (and all jews that lived at the area of Caucasus Mountains: Armenia, Azerbaidzhan, etc.) are called in russian “Gorskie evrei”, that is translated as “Jews of Mountains”. Stalin was one of them. But it is very puzzling why did Stalin himself persecuted and killed so many jews in his own country (mostly ashkenazim).
    Re: Blood mixing: It is true that many jews in europe were involved in marriages with non jews. Not only men, but women as well. And not only in Europe, but everywhere where they lived such facts took place. It is natural. And I would say it is good. Because it prevents many genetic diseases that may occur because of marriages inside the relatively small and closed group of people (scientific fact, genetics).

  9. I really, really doubt that Joseph Stalin was a Jew. That sounds like an anti-Semitic lie to me. He was born an Orthodox Christian, studied for the seminary, and nearly became a priest. That doesn’t sound too Jewish to me.
    Between hard Zionists claiming that Stalin so unfairly persecuted Jews in the 1930’s to anti-Semites claiming that Stalin was a Judeophilic figurehead for Jewish rule in the USSR, I do not have the faintest idea what to believe.

  10. I had heard that Ashkenazi Jews were lighter skinned because of Cossack-on-Jew rape. I find the idea of Jew-on-Slav rape unlikely because of the strict matrilineal nature of Jewish descent. I’ve been taken for Russian or Ukranian many times, even to the extent of having people of these nationalities trying to speak to me in their native tongues.

  11. It dosent matter if Stalin was a jew or not, simply for the same reason it dosent matter if Obama is a jew, the jew mafia pulls the strings behind the stage.
    Who controls the secret police, runs the country and the jews controlled the secret police in Sovjet lock, stock and barrel.
    http://www.ynet.co.il/english/articles/0,7340,L-3342999,00.html
    The jews are in total control of US State Department – and it dident start yesterday.
    Click the video next left to Carter.
    http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=222jewise&view=favorites&start=120
    http://ia301338.us.archive.org/1/items/TheGreatZionistCover-up–AStudyAndInterpretation/ZionistCoverup.pdf

  12. Stalin was married to 2 or 3 jewesses. His children are jews. 60% in the politburo was jews, all the non-jews was married to jewesses. It dont get more kosher then that.
    I dont really understand why some people have so big problem to understand the obvious thing, Sovjet was run by jews 1917 to 1990.
    First thing people will tell you it dident matter if they were jews or not because they was atheists, next split sec the same person will tell you with tears in the eyes that Stalin persecuted jews, for no other reason they were jews.
    This is typical jewish propaganda bullshit. If it dident matter if they were jews, why the hell was the first law in the jew run Sovjet a law with death penalty for the bogus word “antisemitism”?
    Who could come up with such a law – except jews?
    The jews that run Sovjet id themself as jews. The “comrad” nonsense is a jewish joke. The jews was not “comrads” with anybody but other jews.
    First the jews told everyone that they were all “comrades” becuse it served their purpose to trix dumb outsiders and stupid communist goyim in the western world. Then all the sudden it suits the lying jewish propaganda bullshiter that the jews are portrayed as “perscuted” they rant The Jewish Plot, The Jewish Doctors, the jews on the showtrail is very carefully always told to the stupid (m)assses that they are JEWS.
    That Stalin persecuted jews because they were jews is a totally lying jewish propaganda bullshit.
    How do you know that they were executed and not given a facelift and sent of to America or Palestine?
    What it really was all about was differente jew mafia fighting each other. The rest are jewish lies, as always when mafia jews are involved.

    1. Hoff2
      No doubt about it a lot of Jews play rough. But are you really convinced that they are all sons of bitches totally devoid of the milk of human kindness?
      Judaism self selects learned hatefull rulers. Their liturature in a nutshell teaches that God likes to stomp ass if he doesn’t get his way, and that also everybody else is an asshole, who wants to kill them. Because everyone is an asshole its ok to swindle them self selected avaricious converts as well. Guys that absorb this hate liturature best become leaders in the Jewish community.
      Rank and file Jews have never been in position to question any of this dogma. They fear their leaders, and they fear people like you.
      The events that yoke Jewish life date to antiquity and are larger then any individual Jew. Do you think the Tribe of Judah liked it when Ezra backed by Persian soldiers told them “All right you sons of bitches I’m going to teach you to hate the Samaritians” Of course not they wept. They were captured by blood bespattered fanatical Levites and have not had controll of there destiny sinse then.
      Now while you can argue that Judaism makes it easier to be a Sons of bitch deviod of human kindness, how can you be sure that all or even most Jews are sons of bitches deviod of human kindness. Might not some of them be frightened individuals, who fear both there leaders as well as outsiders who hate them.
      Consider that the emancipated Jews of western Europe when given the option tended to intermingle and merge with humanity. This is what Jewish leadership has always feared most. Apperently Jewish leadership does not feel that the milk of human kindness has been eradicated by several mellinium of suffering, so why do you assume that that which is good and decent in others does not exist among Jewery?
      Where as a Jew would seek to devide and isolate his opponents you would unite Jewery against you. Given that world Jewery pocesses the Samson option, might not it be prudent, while still dragging into the disinfecting rays of the light all of the historical Jewish perfidies you like, to try and make common ground with the humanist side of individual Jews, rather then simply saying I hate you I hate you I hate you ad nauseum.

  13. “This could have also contributed to the lighter skin of European jews.”
    Yes, a whole lot of European (Ashkenazi) Jews are VERY light-skinned, even lighter-skinned than many Europeans – especially Europeans from the Meditteranean regions like Italians, Spaniards, Greeks, and so on. A lot of Russian Ashkenazim even have light blue eyes, light hair (even blonde), and the very light skin to go with it.
    I think a lot of this has to do with where many Ashkenazim lived for a long time, in cold portions of Eastern Europe and Russia, where it is often cold and dreary and not sunny at all.
    Also, Jews avoid manual labor (and virtually any really hard work) in the outdoors like the plague, and because of that it is unlikely that many of them would ever get much of a tan since they rarely worked out in out.

    1. such bullshit that in a few hundred years people turn white and their eyes turn blue are you fucking drunk or just stupid .they are what they are not ethnic israelites period.

  14. You have also cited that Ashkenazis are genetically close to Kurds, Armenians and Turks. Khazaria was in that vicinity. It could explain the close relationships as well. Judaism was a proselytizing religion at one point, so many in the Ashekenazi group could be descended from Anatolia or the Caucasus.

    1. SOME Jews have Khazar blood in them, but not many – 13%. 3% have Jews have large amounts of Khazar blood in them. The South Turkey – Kurdistan connection is completely different – this is where all the Jews came from 3,500 years ago.

      1. khazaria was a diverse ethnic bunch consisting of many diverse groups so to say that the genetic pool has to go back 3500 yrs is just plain poppy cock

        1. We don’t really know anything about Khazar DNA other than descriptions about their appearance. I don’t put much faith in the DNA “studies,” but I base my own doubts on the lack of elements of Turkic language and culture found within the Yiddish language and culture. Shlomo Sand did his best to establish connections between Turkic and Yiddish culture, but I found a great deal of historical as well as logical errors in his book.

  15. The Khazars were not necessarily Europeans or Slavs. They were a turkic people from the Caucasus. This could explain why the ashkenazis are similar to Kurds, Turks and Armenians more so than the Palestinians.
    The chechens share a similar genetic makeup to Armenians. Chechnya was once part of Khazaria. A great part of the area formerly known as Khazaria was not always inhabited by Slavs. The Slavs conquered the area later on.

    1. the current people called PALESTINIAN are in fact the so-called israelite people who never left judea and most converted to christianity then to islam although i have friends who are palestinian and are still christians .the palestinians who are never mention as being the original hebrews are in fact the the real judeans of the area called palestine

      1. Razib Khan seems to think that the the Peninsula Arabs had a strong influence on the Palestinian population. Many generic self identified Palestinians even appear to be mulatto as well, so we can deduce that they’re not pure Judaeans. Druze and Samaritans are genetically distinct poipulations and appear to have the strongest connection to the land.

  16. Like I said if you were to look at modern day Chechens their genetic make up would be similar to Armenians. Chechnya would have been part of Khazaria. Most Anatolian Turks today are not descended from Central Asians either, they may have adopted the language and culture however. The Khazars might as well have been genetically linked to the Caucasus, with only a small link to Central Asia.

  17. “awaked” I love hearing half literate WNs use incorrect grammar.
    Jas Khazars are referred to as “white turks.” According to Arab and Chinese sources they were “tall red haired and handsome” Now most Ashkenazim Ive seen are short dark and ugly.
    Yes I spoke with Brook about that too. Anatolian Turks are mainly Mesopotamians who were Turkified rather than Arabized so they are not similar to Central Asians at all. Brook estimates that Ashkenazim have 20% Khazarian and Slavic genes.
    The Ashkenazim are mainly Babylonian jews who immigrated to Europe in the 1st through 5th century. That explains why they are most closely related to Iraqi jews more than Sephardic jews.

    1. I am not a “WN”, I am not even European.
      Red hair is commonly found amongst Ashkenazi Jewish populations.
      *Ernest L. Abel, Jewish genetic disorders (NY 2001), page 229
      The majority of Anatolians belong to European and Near Eastern haplogroups.
      I am not talking about Eastern Europeans or Central Asians per se. The Khazars were a people from the Northern Caucasus. There may have been some Central Asian admixture, however as with the Anatolian example most “ethnic” Khazars did not necessarily have to be Central Asians.
      In the same manner that Askhenazis are genetically similar to Armenians, “Turks” and Kurds, Chechens are also similar to Armenians. “Middle Eastern” haplogroups are common in the Caucasus.
      http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/awaked
      Perhaps you should brush up on your grammar.

    1. Like I said most Anatolian turks are not central Asians either.
      Chechens cluster closely with Armenians. Ashkenazis also cluster closely with Armenians.
      Haplogroups j1 and j2 are common in the Caucasus, especially the northern Caucasus.
      Various Haplogroup g markers have been found in the Caucasus, and many are believed to have originated in the Caucasus.
      The Caucasus region needs to be further studied. Russians/slavs are not native to most of russia.

    2. I would agree that the Caucasus needs further study. Those Whites there are incredibly diverse. The genetic distance between some neighboring groups is further than between large human races.

    3. If true….it proves my multiracial superiority hypothesis correct. Reason for doubt: multiracial people are generally considered to be physically attractive.

  18. Who is to say that people from the Caucasus are necessarily ‘white’?
    There are plenty of people from the Caucasus that have brown skin, just like middle easterners and south Asians they have varying complexions due to varying degrees of uv radiation.

  19. Hi there.
    Interesting set of comments; some intelligent, others less so.
    I’m particularly interested in land claim rights, myself. The whole debate over “Ashkenazim Jews are fakes… they’re really Khazars” rests on it.
    As you point out – and others have since – Ashkenazim Jews are most genetically identical with Palestinian Arabs and Kurds… and no-one is suggesting for one second that Arabs are Khazars!
    But the Jewish claim that they have a right to return to Israel because of genetic descent is refuted because… well… because it’s been too long since they’ve been away.
    Alright. What makes a fair and acceptable right to return to, control or own any bit of real estate on this ball of dirt?
    Q: By what right did theMuslims conquer and thereafter rule Palestine in 638 AD? I mean, back then it was part of the Christendom empire of Byzantium (having previously been part of the Pagan empire of Rome… previously ruled by the Jewish Hasmoneans….)
    A: Oh, that was ages ago! Why bring that up!? Palestine is Arab land, Palestine is Arab land, Palestine is Arab land… ‘cos, like, it was Arab before it was Jewish and I don’t like it being Jewish. So f*** off!
    Hmmm…
    Okay. There are 300 million citizens of the USA. About 500,000 of them descend from First Nations.
    Q: By what right did the Europeans effect a conquest upon the Americas and wipe out 95% of the indigenous population?
    A: Oh come on! That was over 500 years ago! Why bring that up? This is totally irrelevant! Who cares what the Europeans did!? We’re criticising the Jews here ‘cos that way we don’t have to look at the sh** in our own history.
    Let’s try one more time…?
    Q: By what right do the Chinese invade and conquer Tibet – kick out its sacred ruler, the Dalai Lama, slaughter the people, destroy their culture…
    A: The Chinese had always laid claim to Tibet, and were merely regaining a rebel province. They’d never rescinded that claim even though Tibet was partially or totally autonomous since 1350AD… like, over 600 years of “disputed territory” If China’s got it back, that’s okay. ‘Cos, like, there’s 1.3 billion Chinese and there’s only 13 million Jews… so it’s easier to shove Jews around… .and, besides, China’s got a seat on the UN Security Council and Israel doesn’t.
    All this is important because it sets a precedent for The United Nations to determine a new set of ‘rights’ – Rights of Land ownership, Rights of Possession, Rights of Return… that sort of thing.
    To suggest that a two thousand year old Land Claim is somehow not valid because… because it’s, like really OLD … is logically indefensible and hypocritical in the extreme.
    The Zionist claims are as honest or as fraudulent or as questionable as those of any other people.
    In the Jewish case, it works like this:
    1. Every other country we’ve ever lived in has hated us, persecuted us, been jealous of us and then kicked us out. They don’t want us to live anywhere. Frankly, they’d rather see us all just die out as a people to make a convenient solution to their Judenfrag. That ain’t gonna happen.
    2. Israel is our ancient Land – we never gave it up. We’ve come back. Anyone wanting to stay has two choices – share or move out. You Arabs don’t seem to understand the meaning of the word “share”. (Remember 638AD… you know.. .that conquest thing…? “Once Islam, is always Islam”…? Yeah, right!)
    2. You tried to wipe us out in 1948. You lost.
    3. You tried to wipe us out in 1967. You lost.
    4. You tried to wipe us out in 1973. You lost.
    5. Anyone see a pattern here….?

    1. The genetic evidence doesn’t show Ashkenazis and Sephardics being “identical” to Palestinians.
      Actually Ashkenazi and Sephardic jews do not cluster well at all with any levantine population. Are they near eastern in their y-dna, yes. That is depending of course on your definition of “near eastern” . Kurds have nothing to do with “Arabs” or Semites, neither do Turks and Armenians. The peoples who the ashkenazi/sephardic jews cluster most closely with are Anatolians not levantines. The largest misconception here is to assume that Jews are a “race”, which is a completely unfounded claim. Yes I know you are going to pull up that study about Behar et al, Bauchet and the like. Well according to those studies relative to northern europeans of course in their y-dna ashkenazi jews cluster more closely with other near eastern peoples, specifically eastern mediterranean. Where in the mediterranean specifically? Greece, Anatolia and Armenia. What does this imply? Judaism was once a proselytizing faith similar to (though not as aggressive) as Christianity and Islam. There were massive conversions in the Eastern Mediterranean up until Christians penalized and put an end such practices in the first millennium. In the islamic world christians were also proselytized by jews up until the early second millennium.

    2. I wondered about that. Jews are a “Semitic” people, but they cluster closest to the Kurds and Armenians, who are Indo-Aryan people like Iranians and Northern Indians.

  20. like I stated many times , ancient secular historians like Tacitus agreed on the physical appearance of the Hebrews, stating that it was the common opinion among the Romans that the Jews “were an Ethiopian race.”
    Tacitus also remarked that the Hebrews were Egyptians who left Egypt during a disease outbreak. In Roman times, Palestinian-Israelites were classified among Black Africans because it was practically impossible to differentiate between them,not gentile like the Ashkenazi who are descendants of Japheth (genesis; 10:1-2)not Shem,(genesis:10:21,31-Semitic branch of speech:Asiatic) who is the progenitor of the aryan OR INDO-EUROPEAN(indo-germanic)branch of the human family whom appear to have spread out from the Caucasus into central Asia through Asia minor to the islands and coastline of Europe(genesis 10:3-5,32) sorry no fictitious Cohenim haplotype. the truth from the Torah

      1. I also have no documentation to back up my belief that gravity is not governed by an evil, super intelligent penguin living in the center of the earth.

    1. I dunno Mort, didn’t John Lennonowitz and the Plastic Shlomo Band write a song called “Jew is the Nigger of the World?”
      Seriously though, Jews, Mizrachi and Ashkenazi, are very interesting because they are one of the only people in that entire region with no Black in them at all. Like zero. Even the Arab Jews. No one knows why this is, but maybe the fact that they did not have slaves during Islamic times and their in group breeding practices in Europe had something to do with it.

    2. Looks like Jews want to minimize their exposure to black genes, because 60% of the receipients of depo provera (birth controll) injections in Israel are Ethiopian females even though ethiopian jews are only 1% of Israels population.
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oljrngl5Iwc
      We could all learn a lot about eugenics by studying Jewish culture. Two thousand years ago the Greeks considered them dumbshits. Now they are the smartest guys around.

      1. sound to me like another zionist point of view that is supposed to make the gentiles feel respect and subservience to the wiser so-called semite or jew or hebrew, or, or, or.

  21. “We could all learn a lot about eugenics by studying Jewish culture. ”
    Indeed!
    “Should I be ashamed that I want my daughter to marry a Jew and only a Jew? Am I a Nazi for my pride and my conviction? Should I be condemned for wanting to keep that flame of Abraham alive?”
    “On the contrary, I believe it is those who demand that we assimilate, who cannot bear that there be a people who dare stand out from the background, who dare to preserve their heritage and their mission despite every attempt to crush and beat them to the ground—they are the true bigots. They are the ones who are out to destroy the beauty G‑d made in His creation, to destroy the very essence of life.”
    “We are proud to be Jews and we are proud to be proud. We don’t wish to be anything else and we don’t wish our grandchildren to be anything else. To us, there is nothing more magnificent than to be a Jew and nothing more disastrous than to lose one. Because every Jew is a precious flame, a burning bush that will not be consumed, an eternal torch that no one has the right to extinguish—not even that Jew himself.”
    http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/520294/jewish/Isnt-It-Racist-To-Believe-That-Jews-Are-Special.htm

    1. “Should I be ashamed that I want my daughter to marry a German and only a German? Am I a Pharasee for my pride and my conviction? Should I be condemned for wanting to keep that flame of Germany alive?”
      “On the contrary, I believe it is those who demand that we assimilate, who cannot bear that there be a people who dare stand out from the background, who dare to preserve their heritage and their mission despite every attempt to crush and beat them to the ground—they are the true bigots. They are the ones who are out to destroy the beauty God made in His creation, to destroy the very essence of life.”
      “We are proud to be Germans and we are proud to be proud. We don’t wish to be anything else and we don’t wish our grandchildren to be anything else. To us, there is nothing more magnificent than to be a German and nothing more disastrous than to lose one. Because every German is a precious flame, a burning bush that will not be consumed, an eternal torch that no one has the right to extinguish—not even that German himself.”

  22. “I love hearing half literate WNs use incorrect grammar.”
    As an an adjective describing WNs, your sentence should have read with the hyphenated “…half-literate…”.
    BTW, one ‘sees’, not ‘hears’, when reading text…
    Oh well, so much for grammar (and semantics), eh?

  23. I found this at http://caesartort.blogspot.com/2010/02/lightning-in-middle-of-night.html?showComment=1267335913041#c5044984361857837850
    —-
    Captaichaos said…
    “The point that I have made already five times is that there is no such thing racially as “Jews” anymore than there is such a thing as “Mexicans.””
    LOL! Takuan is indeed a pathological liar.
    Consider this genetic study:
    “Abstract
    Background: It was recently shown that the genetic distinction between self-identified Ashkenazi
    Jewish and non-Jewish individuals is a prominent component of genome-wide patterns of genetic
    variation in European Americans. No study however has yet assessed how accurately self-identified
    (Ashkenazi) Jewish ancestry can be inferred from genomic information, nor whether the degree of
    Jewish ancestry can be inferred among individuals with fewer than four Jewish grandparents.
    Results: Using a principal components analysis, we found that the individuals with full Jewish
    ancestry formed a clearly distinct cluster from those individuals with no Jewish ancestry. Using the
    position on the first principal component axis, every single individual with self-reported full Jewish
    ancestry had a higher score than any individual with no Jewish ancestry.
    Conclusions: Here we show that within Americans of European ancestry there is a perfect
    genetic corollary of Jewish ancestry which, in principle, would permit near perfect genetic inference
    of Ashkenazi Jewish ancestry. In fact, even subjects with a single Jewish grandparent can be
    statistically distinguished from those without Jewish ancestry. We also found that subjects with
    Jewish ancestry were slightly more heterozygous than the subjects with no Jewish ancestry,
    suggesting that the genetic distinction between Jews and non-Jews may be more attributable to a
    Near-Eastern origin for Jewish populations than to population bottlenecks.”
    The study is entitled: “A genome-wide genetic signature of Jewish ancestry perfectly
    separates individuals with and without full Jewish ancestry in a large
    random sample of European Americans”
    Study conducted by: Anna C Need, Dalia Kasperavičiūtė, Elizabeth T Cirulli and
    David B Goldstein
    Link: http://genomebiology.com/content/pdf/gb-2009-10-1-r7.pdf

  24. Rob, I just looked at a chart of Ashkenazi y-chromsome DNA. It seems that 10% of Ashkenazi males have hapgroup G, which is not common globally and is found mostly in the Caucasus, Georgia in particular, and northern Turkey. Stalin belonged to this haplogroup, which they knew from testing his grandson. How did Ashkenazis end up with a hapgroup that is predominantly Caucausus-based?

      1. I was just curious becuz you said Anatolians don’t cluster with Caucasus people, but a sizable percentage of Ashkenazis have a Caucasus hapgroup. Is it possible to have the same hapgroup as another group while not clustering with them on autosomal DNA?

  25. One way to judge where Ashkenazi jews originate is to look at them, and by and large they do not look middle eastern as the Sephardic Jews do, I dare say, they are for the most part light skinned, not very tall with vaguely Asiatic features. I am not anti-semitic and may have Sephardic lineage, but I have studied this matter, and the genetic research which attempts to link the bulk of world jewry to the middle east by identifying a few tenous similarities between ashekenazi people and people in the middle east is suspect. A real test would be to compare the DNA of people from the areas of the former Khazarian empire directly with Ashkenazi jews. If you don’t think Ashkenazis look more Asiatic than Middle Eastern, I have a few names for you: Mel Brooks, Buddy Hackett, Jason Alexander, Dianne Wiest, The Silverman sisters, Leonard Nimoy, Mandy Patinkin, Elliot Spitzer, Al Franken, Peter Falk and yes, the Khazarian Diva, Barbara Streisand, all have light skin, Asiatic eyes and high cheekbones, not features found among true middle easterners, who are darker and have rounded eyes. An example of what a true middle eastern jew looks like is Hank Azaria whose parents are Sephardic. Even Seinfeld whose mother is of Sephardic Syrian background does not look like these people.

    1. A fellow named Kevin Brook has already looked into this matter.
      In general, Ashk Jews are related to the peoples of Turkey, Armenia and Kurdistan. And lo and behold, this is who they look like.
      The Mizrachi Jews look more Middle Eastern.
      Sephardic Jews are just Ashk Jews who went to Southern Europe and bred in with the S Europeans, that’s all.

    2. Easy buddy
      I do not look Asiatic, I’m as white as you. What about Norman Finkelstein, and Jon Stewart? Do they look Asiatic to you?

    3. I don;t think that this look means that they do not come from the middle east. They could have come from there and mxed with populations currently there to some level. One of the few times I’ve seen anything with Sarah Silverman she was talking about how one of here family members had traced their ancestors back to a village in Russia that was sacked by the mongols. It would not surprise me if some rape was involved there, the mongols were brutal after all. THere could just be plain interbreding too. A while ago I got interested in the jews and jewish scientist and I started to look into some of their ancestries. A larger portion than I expected had significant amounts of gentile ancestry. Also there are gentile with significant jewish ancestry. The philosopher Wittgenstien was 3/4 of jewish ancestry(if I remember correctly) but technically was not jewish under jewish law. My point here is that a founding group could have come from the middle east and had some mixture while still retaining middle eastern ancestors.
      However, Gilbert Godfreid does look like a white skinned chinaman because of his eyes.

    4. Non of those people you mentioned had “asiatic” features. A few of them looked like Persians tohugh. Look at the current Kazakhs for example of true Asiatic features.

  26. In the words of the great Tom Cruise, “you are glib” and you know not what you speak, Sephardic Jews pre-date Ashkenazi Jews by almost a Millenia, having migrated to Spain directly from the middle east during the Roman occupation. It is questionable if the Ashkenazi jews were ever even in the Middle East. If anything it can be said that Ashkenazi may have elements of Sephardic Jews from Spain as well as other parts, and they are completely different in every way, they don’t speak Yiddish, they look completely different, their cuisine is different, as are their customs and interpretation of scripture. Whereas the Ashkenazis are Talmudic Jews, the Sephardic are more influenced by the Torah. You have pretty much made my point by saying Ashk jews are more closely related to Turkish and Kurdish people. Bingo! the Khazars were a Turkic culture.

      1. I didn’t know there was ever a genetic study on Khazarian genes, particularly and I would think that the Khazars who were a population of primarily Turkic, Iranian, Finno-Ugric, Slavic, and Palaeo-Caucasian peoples would not have a lot in common genetically with Turks Armenians and Kurds, in fact I think they would be identical.

  27. Jews are not Hebrews, not the Seed of Abraham, not the DNA of Abraham, not his descendants. Deuteronomy28 tells the world who is the seed of Abraham. In Deuteronomy 37, it says that, “And thou shall become an astonishment, a proverb, and a byword, among all nations whither the Lord shall lead thee.” That does not apply to the Khazar/Ashenazi/Sephardim Jews. Actually, the word” Jew” does not even exist in Hebrew, as there is no “j” in the Hebrew alphabet, nor the Greek alphabet, nor the Roman alphabet, and, until 200 years ago, not even the english alphabet. It is a word completely made up, by Khazar Ashenazim. Listen to the tapes of Benjamin Freedman, who grew up as Jew, and when he learned all of it was lie, became a Roman Catholic, and denounced “Judaism,” as a complete lie, so that the Khazars could steal the legacy and birthright of others.

  28. Encyclopedia Britannica (15th edition): “Khazars, confederation of Turkic and Iranian tribes that established a major commercial empire in the second half of the 6th century, covering the southeastern section of modern European Russia . . . In the middle of the 8th century the ruling classes adopted Judaism as their religion.”
    The Jewish Encyclopedia: “Khazars, a non-Semitic, Asiatic, Mongolian tribal nation who emigrated into Eastern Europe about the first century, who were converted as an entire nation to Judaism in the seventh century by the expanding Russian nation which absorbed the entire Khazar population, and who account for the presence in Eastern Europe of the great numbers of Yiddish-speaking Jews in Russia, Poland, Lithuania, Galatia, Besserabia and Rumania.”
    The Encyclopedia Judaica (1972): “Khazars, a national group of general Turkic type, independent and sovereign in Eastern Europe between the seventh and tenth centuries C.E. during part of this time the leading Khazars professed Judaism . . . In spite of the negligible information of an archaeological nature, the presence of Jewish groups and the impact of Jewish ideas in Eastern Europe are considerable during the Middle Ages. Groups have been mentioned as migrating to Central Europe from the East often have been referred to as Khazars, thus making it impossible to overlook the possibility that they originated from within the former Khazar Empire.”
    The Universal Jewish Encyclopedia: “Khazars, a medieval people, probably related to the Volga Bulgars, whose ruling class adopted Judaism during the 8th cent. The Khazars seem to have emerged during the 6th cent., from the vast nomadic Hun (Turki) empire which stretched from the steppes of Eastern Europe and the Volga basin to the Chinese frontier. Although it is often claimed that allusions to the Khazars are found as early as 200 C.E., actually they are not mentioned until 627 . . . most Jewish historians date the conversion of the Khazar King to Judaism during the first half of this century [A.D.]. . .”
    http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/jews.htm

  29. Lindsay
    I’ve been talking about this at David’s blog.
    I don’t put much faith in genetic studies.
    But I wanted to address a point. What could account for the near absence of any trace of Khazarian culture in 19th century Ashkenazi culture. Sand claimed that the low Germanic Yiddish language (not Khazarian at all) was formed as a result of the relexification of the Khazarian language and its replacement with German words, which is enough to throw a sane person off. According to his theory, Jews never lived in German speaking lands; they just had economic ties to the Germans. But back to the point about the absence of Khazarian culture present in 19th century Jews. Assuming he was correct, he still does not provide a sufficient explanation for the near disappearance of Khazarian culture, customs, and names from Ashkenazi culture. An apt comparison would be the Irish, who no longer speak Gaelic, but who have retained a strong Gaelic identity, and who continue to celebrate Irish holidays, proudly bear Celtic symbols, and possess Irish names. If King Bulan was the truly the forbear of today’s Jews, one would expect that every other jew (at least as late as the 19th century) would bear the name “Bulan,” (as many Irish bear the name Patrick) whether or not they spoke his native language or not. But I haave never heard of a Jew named “Bulan.” There are a few surnames in the Yiddish language that are thought to be of Khazarian origin: Kagan, Kaplan, Balaban, Kahn is a variant of Khan, I had originally thought Lazar and its variants were of Khazarian origin, but Emma Lazarus, who was of Sephardic descent also bore that name and Wolf is close to the German Wolfgang, so we can assume that it is of German origin. And how come there were no early jewish settlements in Eastern Europe that had Turkic names? How come there are no shtetls named Atil?
    I’d like for Yiddish were closer to Turkish then German, which is the most romantic language besides for the Romance languages.

  30. I actually think Uzbek (Southeastern Turkic) is the most Romantic sounding and wish Yiddish sounded just like it.

  31. Sand attributed the use of the English language to a small presence of German traders in Eastern Europe (even smaller than Ashkenazim) and claimed that the Ashkenazim relexified their language because they acted as intermediaries between the Germans and Slavic nobility and left little trace of Slavic or Turkic. Come on, you don’t want to lose any credibility whatsoever. But his readers seemed to eat it up.

  32. Is itb possible that the Anatolian genes found among Ashkenazim come from the Radhanite mercantile class, who were from Northern Iraq?

  33. My mom’s family is Ashkenazi Jewish, and many of my older relatives speak Yiddish, it was their first language.
    One way to figure out the background of European Jews is to look at the languages they have traditionally spoken. I’m pretty sure most of you know that Jews in Europe eventually ended up speaking Yiddish. It’s considered a Germanic language, so we can assume that Jews spent a considerable amount of time in German-speaking areas once they entered Europe.
    There are actually two major dialects of Yiddish. Western Yiddish is mostly German, with Hebrew and some French I believe. Eastern Yiddish is spoken by Jews who ended up in Russia and Eastern Europe, and the language reflects it. Eastern Yiddish has a decent number of loan words from the Slavic languages, in addition to the Germanic base and the Hebrew.
    From the Yiddish I know, and that my relatives speak, there isn’t any indication of a “khazar” origin for any part of the language, which leads me to believe the Khazarian influence on European Jews is minimal at best.
    Even if you look at traditional Ashkenazic Jewish foods, they are very Western and Eastern European in their origin, leading me to believe, again, that any Khazar influence was very minimal.

    1. I am opposed to using any genetic evidence as ‘conclusive’ proof of ancestry of European jews.
      Sand tried to establish connections wherever he could, and often times I could pinpoint examples of inaccuracies or half truths, even with my limited knowledge of the subject matter. He attempted to explain the formation of the (Germanic) Yiddish as opposed to Turkic, Slavic or Uralic language by saying the jews acted as intermediaries but that claim is so ludicrous that it should only undermine his credibility in even the eyes of saner Arab Nationalists or conspiracy theorists.

      1. I don’t know enough about the genetic evidence to really comment, but I think that history, culture, and language in this case show that any influence on Ashkenazim outside of the boundaries of Western and Eastern Europe is very small.
        I was always taught that Jews entered Europe primarily through Italy, probably beginning around the time the Roman Empire fell. They moved up through Italy, into France, and settled in German speaking areas by about 1000 CE. Some started moving into Eastern Europe to escape persecution during the Crusades, and that’s where we get the development of Eastern Yiddish.
        Even surnames used by Jews in Europe reflect more of a Germanic and Slavic influence.

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