Statement on Radical Nationalism

This is the first post on my new site!

We don’t like any kind of radical nationalists, ultranationalists or Far Rightist nationalists here at Robert Lindsay. We don’t like real German Nazis, Jewish Nazis (Zionists), Indian Nazis (Hindutvas – Indian nationalists), Islamo Nazis (global jihadists), Arab Nazis (Arab nationalists), Serb Nazis (Milosevic Chetniks), Turk Nazis (Kemalists), Croat Nazis (Ustashe Tudjmanists), Italian Nazis (Mussolinist fascists), Spanish Nazis (Francoists), Indonesian Nazis (Suhartoists), Russian Nazis, Sri Lankan Nazis (Sinhalists), Ukrainian Nazis (Banderists), North Italian Nazis (Pandanianists), Romanian Nazis (Iron Cross), Estonian Nazis (Estonian Nationalists) or Chinese Nazis (Chinese nationalists). Unfortunately, there are also seem to be folks who act like Albanian Nazis (Kosovars), Kurdish Nazis (In the new Kurdish Zone in Iraq, everyone who is not a Kurdish Sunni Muslim has been attacked, overtly discriminated against, jailed or even killed.), etc., but I don’t want to go overboard with this analogy, and I’ve already piled up a Mount Everest of enemies here as it is. The sad cases of the Kosovars and the South Kurdistanis show that emancipatory or progressive nationalism can quickly morph into the Nazi-fascist oppressive nation-building type just as soon as the national revolutionaries grab themselves something looking like a state. I usually don’t support killing people, but if you’re going to kill anyone, you might as well kill people like this. I can’t put into words the amount of hatred I feel for radical nationalism. It’s completely opposed to everything the Left stands for. Progressive nationalism should be distinguished from nation-building, national consolidation, integrationist, fascist national chauvinism. Progressive nationalism, ideally, is about liberation and emancipation. This is why we support separatist movements all over the world. Progressive nationalism supports the emancipation of all cultures, peoples and languages, and their further support and development, if they so wish. This could go so far as cultural and linguistic autonomy to varying degrees. The main point is nations controlling and to one degree or another ruling their own affairs and preserving their cultures and tongues. Rightwing nationalism refuses to allow for the emancipation and liberation of nations within the state. All nations, tongues and cultures within the state are smashed together into one nation, the nation of the nation-state, assuming they are not destroyed altogether. I can’t think of anything more anti-progressive than forcing people to be part of your state who want no part of it. In what way can this possibly be construed as a progressive value? It’s almost the same as kidnapping on a personal level. You’re forcing someone to stay in a house or room at gunpoint when they want to leave. White nationalists in the comments have suggested that I am referring to them in this post.  I am not! You guys are going to have to think real hard now. Ethnic nationalists are not the same as ultranationalists and national chauvinists who are actually running huge states with vast armies, preaching Greater Whatever, threatening and attacking their neighbors, repressing and killing minorities within the borders of their state, etc. Now Nazis are another matter, but they don’t have a state either, so at the moment, they are pretty harmless too. All of the characters I have listed above have been killing people for a long time. US Nazis haven’t. But yeah, I do support killing real Nazis – the kind that model themselves on the German variety – anywhere on Earth they infest. Why? Because they deserve it, because I bet it’s fun, and just because. Please try to understand the difference between a White nationalist and a Nazi! Not necessarily the same thing, guys. Some White nationalists are Nazis, and others are not. Put on the thinking cap.

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48 thoughts on “Statement on Radical Nationalism”

  1. Hi, it’s me, Stopped Clock. I’m just letting you know I’m here. This is an account I registered a year or so ago but never used; I’ll try to find a better username than this.

  2. Yea! Off Blogger!! Yeah, you might get TOS off here too. You will probably have to sort through a lot of bot-comment spam

  3. Do you want to kill me, Robert? I am not a Nazi, but I am a White Nationalist. And yes, I criticize Jews when appropriate.

  4. White nationalists are not quite the same thing as a real Nazi type ultranationalist. You guys don’t even have a state. Ultranationalists with a state are the ones that are out and out dangerous, like the Arab Nazis, Serb Nazis, Croat Nazis, Indian Nazis, Turk Nazis, German Nazis, Indonesian Nazis, etc.
    Just think of how many people these ultranationalists have killed?! They kill 10,000’s of people every single year in this world.
    White nationalists don’t even have a country, and they hardly kill or even oppress anyone.
    Pls understand the difference between national chauvinists and some garden variety ethnic nationalists.
    The Japanese, Germans and Italians in WW were ultranationalists with a nation-state.
    Pls try to understand how you WN’s are not like these other ones, ok?
    Think real hard. You guys are assholes, but at the moment, you’re basically harmless. Besides, WN’s are not the same as say Indian nationalists. Indian nationalists are a menace! Do you have any idea how many people they have killed? They have nuclear weapons and they are ready to use them all for their fucked up Bharat India (Greater India).
    I’m talking about the Greater Turkey, Greater Arabia, Greater Serbia, Greater Croatia, Greater China scum. They’re a menace! They run countries, have huge armies, attack their neighbors, have nuclear weapons, and are an out and out menace to the world.
    You guys aren’t shit. When you get a White country, start killing all the non-Whites, start talking about Greater Whiteland, acquiring nukes and threatening to use them, and threatening to attack all your neighbors, come back and talk to me.
    Then I’ll advocate killing you. Until then, you’re knats.
    Do you understand the differences in the types of nationalisms I am discussing.
    As far as US Nazis, yeah, I do advocate killing them. So fucking arrest me. Call the cops.
    Nah, I don’t want to kill you. I don’t even hate you. You don’t even piss me off. Should I hate you? I dunno. I hate too many and want to kill too many real flesh and blood humans as it is. I’d honestly prefer to get along with as many people as possible. Having lots of enemies and being involved in constant wars with other humans is a drag. I know all about it.
    Scott, it’s almost impossible to get TOS’d off of her. I’m going to push it to the limits as usual, but I don’t expect any problems.
    I don’t know about comment spam. We will deal with that when it comes up.
    Fuck Blogger!

  5. Does wordpress give you free hosting? I always thought it was just software, but you had to buy hosting from them or get a domain name.

  6. Yes, it’s free on, but then they can throw you off. Or you can just use their software and host it somewhere else, which I can’t figure out how to do.
    It’s way harder than Blogger – just thought I would warn anyone who is thinking of moving over. They don’t make this platform easy at all. On the other hand, it’s pretty much idiot-proofed, because they hide a lot of the ways to tweak to stuff, so it seems like you are just stuck with one way to do things. You can hack it like Blogger, but they don’t really show you how. You have to dig around and figure it out for yourself.

  7. White nationalists in the comments have suggested that I am referring to them in this post. I am not!

    They think the world revolves around them.

  8. Yes, I can import the entire old blog, it is true.
    It’s a bit tricky though and I am not up to it right at the moment. I have to move the new blogger template to import, then I lose my Haloscan comments, then I have to revert to the old template to keep my old Haloscan comments. Anyway, bit of a pain and I am going to wait on that for now. I’m just now figuring out this WordPress thing. It’s way more involved than Blogger, but after a bit of hesitation, I actually enjoy learning new things.

  9. Dear Santa,
    This is my Christmas wish for the coming year…I wish the American Academy of Arts and Sciences would invite Lee Emery (the drill sergeant in Full Metal Jacket) to the 2009 Oscar Awards ceremony in Hollywood. I wish that while he was inside the Chandler Pavilion sitting with all his obscenely rich Zionist friends, basking in the klieg lights and chuckling at Billy Crystal, that a stunning Palestinian jihadi masquerading as a suds wrangler for detergent commercials, in a low cut evening dress with about 160lbs of plastic explosives sewn into it, would blow herself and every last person in the building up in the name of Allah the most beneficent and his blessed prophet Mohammed
    Your little friend,

  10. Is the old blog gonna get deleted or should I save the most interesting posts?
    P.S. Nowadays saying that you’d rather live in a White neighbourhood makes you a Nazi.

  11. The old blog will not be deleted, and I guess I can import it into this one. But thx so much Kanadon! I never knew I had so many friends! Muah.
    You guys really need to learn how to spell neighborhood though. Mr. Rogers would not be happy to see you mangling his happy home.
    P.S. Nowadays saying that you’d rather live in a White neighbourhood makes you a Nazi.
    Ok, that does it dammit. I’m definitely a Nazi now. Next thing I know, the ADL will be knocking on my door. See what you made me do?

  12. You’ve been a bad boy, whodares! No presents for you! On top of that, Santa Claus just killed himself! That’s a better show than a warehouse full of Disasterware. Now top this!

  13. You guys really need to learn how to spell neighborhood though. Mr. Rogers would not be happy to see you mangling his happy home.
    I AM CANADIAN! You Americans love to drop the “u”. Silly bastards.
    P.S. I’m that Russian guy who didn’t wanna translate.
    P.P.S. How do you do italics here?

  14. Don’t fret Kanadon.
    Hardly anyone wants to translate those posts. I think it’s because I’m not paying. Also translation is a lot bigger of a job than most people think. I only have two translators so far – French and Italian.

  15. Hi Rob,
    Talking about Indian Nationalists, we count Gandhi, Nehru, Azad etc as Indian nationalists who were by no means a menace as you mentioned. You probably have mistaken the so-called rightist parties to be the Nationalists. Also, I was actually amused when you said that they have nuclear weapons and they are ready to use them for “Bharat India”. I hope you could research a little more on any issue before posting them here.
    I’d like to respond if you could tell me who are Indian Nationalists and how are they a menace. FYI, I’m an Indian and a Hindu by birth. I do not support any kind of political ideologies (because I simply don’t want to be tied down to any agenda).

  16. Hi Anjani. I have spoken to many upper middle class Indians, and almost 100% were Indian nationalists of the very worst kind. There is something really horrible brewing in India.
    The symptoms are:
    Contempt for the West, its medicine, its language and its perceived superiority.
    Strong feelings of rage over perceived inferiority masked by compensatory feelings of superiority, typically for the most backwards and fucked-up aspects of Indian culture and the Hindu religion, in particular caste. In particular, fury that India is referred to as a 3rd world country, anger that Westerners consider themselves civilized and consider India backwards, etc.
    A notion that India is one of the great countries of the world, but India’s enemies have held it back from its greatness and kept it from being the great country it could be. This goes along with some weird notion that India was the wealthiest country on Earth in 1500, but then it declined to one of the poorest. This project was apparently done by outsiders.
    A lot of anger towards Muslims. In particular, a notion that moderate Muslims simply do not exist.
    Extreme denial about the worst aspects of Indian culture and the Hindu religion, in particular caste.
    Extreme defense of the most outrageous differentials in wealth and poverty.
    A notion that something called “Bharat India” existed and that much of the land east and west of India is “really India” in some weird way, because they were Indianized or especially Hinduized at some point.
    Rage towards Christianity for converting low caste Hindus.
    Extreme rage and irrationality over the Kashmir issue, on which India is effectively an outlaw state, defying a security council resolution. On the contrary, most Pakistanis seem to be fairly calm about Kashmir. I think Indians are filled with so much rage and fury about Kashmir because deep down inside they must know they are wrong.
    In particular, regarding Kashmir, there is a denial that even one native Kashmiri Indian is protesting against or has taken up arms against India. 100% of protesters and armed fighters are actually “Pakistanis”. The Kashmiris are completely happy in India and all of the problems are caused by Kashmir. In particular, they deny that any Kashmiris want independence. They also deny that there is such a thing as a Kashmiri Indian. They claim the war started when “Pakistan invaded Kashmir and the King appealed to India for help.”
    Also, all of these people feel that what occurred after India’s independence was 100% right. Many princely states refused to join India. India attacked many of them and threatened to attack many others. This is the root of the separatist conflicts in India. These people all feel that none of these states had a right to refuse to be part of India since they were all part of “Bharat India.”
    India has attacked or threatened to attack most or all of its neighbors since independence. Upon independence, India immediately placed claims on its neighbors’ lands. At the moment, India claims parts of both China and Pakistan.
    If you go on Rediff or other forums where many Indian H-1B workers in the US post or if you talk to people working with Indian H-1B workers in the US, you will find that these attitudes are absolutely rife.
    Almost all of these folks come from higher castes.
    I would like to point out that this general picture is creepily reminiscent of ultranationalisms around the world and in the past. In particular, the Indian Hindu nationalism I describe above has many similarities with German, Italian and Japanese ultranationalism of the 1930’s and 1940’s that caused so many problems. The fact that Indian Hindu nationalism, which seems omnipresent in India, is backed up by a state armed with nuclear weapons is something I find very frightening.

  17. What about white nationalists that want to peacefully secede from a larger multiracial country where whites are a minority in order to preserve their culture, ethnicity, language, whatever…? Say a white nationalist movement started in Brazil, for example, or South Africa. Say the movement was peaceful and seemed run by reasonable folks, not the type to get all wild-eyed once they got a state and start executing people (I know, difficult to tell beforehand). What would your attitude toward that be?

  18. Mark, I don’t think you understand the post.
    Once again, there is a difference between integrationist, national unificationist, fascist nationalists (who never want to allow anyone to secede) and national liberation secessionist movements.
    Much as I dislike WN’s, I must admit that a number of them do fall into the progressive national liberation seccessionist movements category. They certainly are not the integrationist, unificationist, nation-building standard variety of blood and soil fascist.
    The problem in South Africa and Brazil would be find an area that had no people in it and then populate it with Whites and the press for secession. I normally don’t support secessionist movements that are trying to secede for shitty reasons (to grab all the oil in the country, for instance) and I might oppose such a movement, but it certainly is NOT fascist type blood and soil ultranationalism. In fact, I would have to admit that it was a progressive minded movement. I usually only support the secession of actual nations within states, and usually nations with a long history, a common language, culture, etc. Catalans, Basques, Scottish, Welsh, Corsicans, Bretons, Chechens, Ingush, Galicians, Kurds, Baloch, Kashmiris, Tibetans, Acehese, Papuans, Shan, Karen, Assamese, Tripuri, Bodos, Inner Mongolians, Abkhaz, South Ossetians, etc.
    I really need to do a post about this. Too many people do not seem to understand the difference between national liberation secessionist movements and classical integrationist blood and soil facsists.

  19. Click Robert Lindsay at top of page and you come to maine page.
    I like Haloscan better. Link’s open in a new window. If you got a fast connection that is not a problem, but I don’t. Can you look in to that Robert? I want that on my blog too.
    So now you are in “love” with me Robert?D))
    Sorry, no can do. You are no MILF. Sahra Pailin is a MILF. You are no way near that Robert. Sorry ;o)

  20. Go to the Haloscan page, sign up for Haloscan, and there is an automated install that installs Haloscan on your page. I think I could maybe get the links here to open in a new page, but it seems that it may be a bit of a hassle. Less of a hassle than on the old blog though.
    I got a problem heg. I still love young women, but I think they don’t love me at all anymore because I’m too old. Actually, I think a lot of them hate me. Sucks.

  21. Hey heg, check out these faces. My face is on every one of my comments. Cool! And look up at the top of my blog. My face is up there, right on the Internet for everyone to see! LOL! My 15 minutes. Yeah! The Internet is a narcissist’s paradise.

  22. I think I understood your post, I was just wondering if you held whites up to a different standard from other groups, which seems to be a common and, given human nature, perhaps to-be-expected attitude among whites in these matters.
    “The problem in South Africa and Brazil would be find an area that had no people in it and then populate it with Whites and the press for secession. ”
    Why couldn’t the whites already living in those countries just press for secession? No need to populate the country with whites when you already have millions living there.

  23. Robert, you disappoint me. Milosevic “Nazis” would be (have been) close to “Left” National Bolsheviks, not Chetniks.

  24. Mark, being Brazilian I think the idea of a White supremacist (or worse, secessionist) movement here is so laughable it’s hard to even decide where to begin explaining. Not that there haven’t been people who tried to launch the idea – in a country with 190 million people, there is certainly room for all kinds of weirdos you can think of and then more. But they were not even met with scorn – they were deemed so insignificant that nobody listened.
    South Africa and the U.S. are countries with historic racial segregation. Brazil is exactly the opposite: a country where interracial miscigenation and social intermingling is the norm, not the exception. It all started because instead of real “colonists” or “pioneers” looking for a new land to call their own, the Portuguese who colonized us were really adventurers. They were overwhelmingly males who left their wives and kids back in Lisbon and came to Brazil intending to stay a few years, make a fortune, then go back to spend it at home in Europe. Many never returned in the end, but whether they did or not, they still had the urges of the flesh while here. So they satisfied their urges first with Amerindian women, later with African slave ones. That mixed offspring bred with other mixed offspring. And again and again, over 500 years, in complex fractal patterns.
    Add to that a big wave of European, Middle Eastern and Japanese immigration from the late 19th century to the mid-20th, and the result is that Brazilians probably have the most complex gene pool in the world. At first, such immigrants even tried to establish ghettos as in other countries, but they disappeared after a generation with complete assimilation into Brazilian society and the usual pattern of intermixing and intermarriage. Here you can see people with Caucasian features but dark skin, and vice versa, with all shades in between. You can even see mulattoes (or blue-eyed blondes) with Asian eyes.
    When we travel abroad, we are told to be extremely careful with our passports, because Brazilian passports are highly valued in the black market. Why? Because *any* physical type in the world can pass for a Brazilian. I have very light skin and look deceptively Caucasian myself, but I have a hard wiry beard to evidence my African genes – as if I didn’t know that my grandfather was the “white sheep” in his family… I have a friend here with dark skin and Arab features who could easily be taken for a Malinese or Sudanese. Another one is of Italian and Japanese ancestry and is an almost obscenely hairy man with a dense beard coupled with almond eyes.
    We are the anti-Iceland – huge, tropical, and with the United Nations put in a blender and thrown into our genes. Few Brazilians (other than in the Southern states, but I’ll come back to this later) can say they are 1/4 this or 1/8 that. It’s more likely that we are some weird fraction like 29.873652% this or that.
    I’ve said it above, but it’s important, so I’ll repeat it: Brazil was never racially segregated. We have the same shameful record of poverty, low social indicators, high unemployment and crime among persons who are *visibly* black as in the U.S. and South Africa, mostly because of our no less shameful very late abolition of slavery (1888), but there is no such thing as a “black” or “white” neighbo(u)rhood in our cities. Racism exists, but in the end the divide is much more economical than racial. A poor neighbo(u)rhood is more likely to have a large proportion of blacks, but it will also have a lot of poor whites living next door to blacks (and still intermarrying with them).
    São Paulo and the Southern states are somewhat different, in that they have received the bulk of European immigration, and that was just a few generations ago, so there *are* people who can claim and trace pure European ethnicity. But even they live, work, socialize and intermarry with people with all sorts of ethnic backgrounds, more often than not with two, three or four of them at once in the same person. Some people in São Paulo – which produces 30% of the nation’s wealth, and in some economic sectors up to 80% – resent what they call “supporting the rest of the country with their work and money”, but true separatists never attracted much attention, let alone support.
    There are also a bunch of separatist advocates in Rio Grande do Sul, Brazil’s southernmost state. It is Brazil’s richest state in proportional terms (per capita) and it has a very characteristic regional culture they are staunchly proud of. It was the last part of Brazil to join the country, and the Portuguese they speak there still has a very strong Spanish influence in pronunciation and vocabulary. It is also one of the “whitest” states due to heavy recent European immigration (Germans and Italians in particular) – Gisele Bündchen is from there. But most “gaúchos” (as they are called) are also heavily mixed with Guarani Amerindians (that scene in “The Mission” where they raid a Jesuit mission among the natives and destroy it portrays a real event that happened there in the 18th century).
    Still, not even the “gaúcho” separatists say they want to secede because they are “white” – first because they are not so as a whole, and second because their neighbo(u)r to the north, Santa Catarina state, is even “whiter” and has its own German dialect (based on Thuringian and Pomeranian), still widely spoken several generations after immigration. Yet RGS separatists don’t want to include Santa Catarina. Anyway, separatists are a tiny minority: most people from RGS shun secession and are as proud of being Brazilian as of being “gaúchos”. And thank God, RGS separatists are not violent or extremist (in addition to being very, very few).
    Apartheid and domination by a white minority were possible in South Africa chiefly because the white newcomers had an overwhelmingly superior technology, especially regarding weapons and agriculture, and segregation ensured that things would remain so. But Brazil is an established country with an unsegregated population of multiracial individuals, now chiefly urban and technological, even if with shocking extremes of wealth distribution. White supremacists don’t have a chance here, let alone white separatists. And we have lots of empty land here. If they want to take it, we’ll be glad to get rid of that scum.

  25. Thanks for that well-written and informative post, Goyta. Your command of English is better than about 90% of Americans.
    My mother was Portugese. Her father came from a rich landed family of noblility (Moreira) and lost his family membership when he eloped with the castle maid.
    They moved to France and raised a family of 9.
    Do you flash-burn sardines over an open fire in Brazil? A family tradition with us.

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