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The Sad Tale of the Jews of Detroit

Polar Bear: Trash said Jews would get paid on a certain day of the week in Detroit and be out getting Black ho head that night. All you could see is butt pale bodies of naked Jews in the middle of Detroit with sets of White eyes bobbing back and forth like a wailing wall for Blacks

Honest Guy: The aptly named “Trash” is about as reliable on this as everything else. Detroit is not a particularly Jewish city at all – its now largely vanished White population is overwhelmingly Catholic, particularly Polish, Slavic etc. Much like the rest of the Midwest Rust Belt.

I don’t care about Trash’s comment. If Jewish men want to get laid, they can go get laid. They can buy all their whores they want, Black or otherwise. I’d never hold that against one of my fellow men.

Perhaps Honest Guy should relax on this one. It’s just dudes getting laid. That they happened to be Jewish dudes is not all that important. Last time I checked, Jewish male adults were men too. And Honest Guy seem like a straight man,, so these are just his and my straight male brothers getting some pussy. Yeah, it’s Black pussy but so what? Pussy’s pussy. It’s no big.

Trash was definitely a Polack LOL. There were also a lot of Greeks in Detroit I believe.

I’m not sure when Trash grew up there. I know that 45 years ago, Detroit was Jewish as Hell! I knew some Jews from there, and they were crazy racist against Blacks. Then 15 years ago I met a girlfriend who I stayed with for 5 1/2 years. Jewish chick from…Detroit! And she knew a ton of other Jews in the area too. Actually she lived in suburb called Oak Haven or something. And she was fairly racist too.

She went from,

Hell no ew! I’m not dating a schvartz!

to moving to a ghetto suburb of Georgia and having an affair with an Black guy who was fucking a Black woman on the side the whole time. Then I think he just dumped her. He wasn’t very good in bed either. And he was kind of a huge pussy. He had a soft voice but his was almost way too soft.

45 years ago Detroit was Jewish as Hell and probably a lot of other cities in the East too were too. But as it got more and more Black, the Jews and the other Whites started taking off, maybe for the suburbs, maybe out of the area. The only people who were left were older Jews, often elderly, the parents of my generation of Detroit Jews. A lot of them were still left as the city got over 50% Black. Maybe they could not afford to move?

Anyway, ghetto Blacks preyed terribly on these rather helpless elderly Jews, and a lot of Jews in my generation started hating Blacks because of what they had done to their parents back in the city when their parents stayed behind. There were homicides, break ins, robberies, muggings, burglaries, you name it. Some of these elderly Jews had 4-5 locks on their doors.

It’s sad as Hell, frankly. I could care less about elderly Jews without a lot of money. What are they to me? Why should I hate them? Give me a reason. I feel terrible at how they got left behind and were easy targets for predatory ghetto Blacks.

In case you are interested, Trash was extremely pro-Jewish. He had Narcissistic Personality Disorder and was all wrapped up in “the superior people and the inferior people.” His whole life had become an effort to prove that he was the former and not the latter.

He saw Jews as superior people so he took their role and became an honorary Jew to look down on people. I finally banned him and he sent me a couple of emails calling me an antisemite. I hope it wasn’t true, but I used to be a lot more careless about how I talked about Jews on here. Guys like Honest Guy keep me on the right path, bless his soul!

Black Women Acting Like Ho’s

SamSpeed: Hmmm…well Mr. Lindsay it sounds like you have a very interesting opinion about Black women or Black people in general.

So we’re gonna completely disregard all the school shootings that were done by White people or the pedophilia running rampant in the White community? I live right next to a majority-White college and let me tell you how promiscuous all of these young White girls are. They go out of their way to open their legs up to the young Black men on campus. And if you look at only fans you’ll see that a large percentage of those girls are White sir.

I want you to grab a megaphone and head to the center of a majority-Black area in your state. Once you’re there I want you to voice your opinion out in public and give people a chance to speak up for themselves face to face. After all, you’re a big strong Aryan man, right? And strong Aryan men don’t hide behind keyboards, right? So it shouldn’t be a problem for you.

There is no “pedophilia” running rampant in the White community. Whites and Blacks have the same rate of being pedophiles. And child molestation is epidemic the ghetto. Black girls are twice as likely as White girls to get molested. One Black woman said, “All girls in the ghetto get molested.” So Black men are much more likely to be child molesters than White men.

Well, you know, I wouldn’t be afraid to move to a White community because

Oh no, there might be a school shooter there and he might shoot me accidentally.

On the other hand, I would be very dubious about moving to a Black area or even hanging out there due to all the crime. Anyway, the vast majority of mass shootings are done by Black men, mostly gang-related.

Yes, yes, we know all about those snowbunnies. Problem is a lot of White men say,

Once you go Black, we won’t take you back.

Think I’ll pass about going into one of your ghetto shitholes and making an ass out of myself.

The article discusses why Black women have such a “prostitute” or “whorish” attitude towards sex.

Note: 50% of  teenage girl minor prostitutes are Black girls. 13% of teenage girl minors are Black. They’re four times as likely to be teen prostitutes as White girls.

I’ve dated a number of Black girls and even slept with a few. I only had sex with a few of them, maybe five or ten. Almost all of them had the attitude that if you wanted sex from them, you had to pay. Even worse, a lot of them pretty much wanted to charge you for every single sex act! I’ve spoken to and checked out many others, and I have never seen a race of women with such a “whorish” (as in acting like a prostitute and charging men for sex) attitude towards sex.

In my city, we hardly have any streetwalking ho’s, but the ones we did have were almost all Black. Now keep in mind this town is 4% Black, and 90% of the streetwalkers were Black. There was one fat White woman with a Black pimp who walked the street. There were zero Hispanic women out there. That culture really looks down on being a streetwalkin’ ho, which is the worst kind of ho out there.

So keep in mind that I have way more experience with Black women than most White men do, and this a common denominator that keeps coming up.

Even if they get some money, they act this way. I talked to a hot 60 year old Black woman recently, and she said if I wanted to take her out, I had to take her out to a very expensive restaurant. Because she deserves it for having a platinum-plated pussy. A 60 year old platinum plated pussy! So you see, even she’s a ho. And she’s not the only one I’ve heard talk like that.

Almost all of the very hot young Black women you see on  dating apps come right out and say that they deserve to live the finest life, going to the best restaurants, buying the fanciest clothes and the priciest jewelry, and traveling all the time. And they don’t expect to work a day in their lives except on their backs obviously. They just want to kick back and live off rich Black guys their whole lives.

As a result, I pretty much won’t have anything to do with Black women anymore.

Of course there are hot young women, Whites and Hispanics, who also have this gold-digging ho attitude, but they are much fewer in percentage. I feel sorry for Black men. I guess you can’t get a hot Black women unless you’re rich. Sad!

In the White community it is very frowned upon to be a blatant ho or golddigger or woman who likes to charge men for sex one way or another. It’s super-trashy and you can ruin your reputation real quick like that because people think it’s gross.

Obviously the Black community does not operate on this basis, and it tells Black women that the only attitude they should have towards sex is to be a ho, officially or non-officially!

Delphi Murders Update October 1: A Theory of the Flora Fires as an Odinist Crime, along with a Few Musings about the Delphi Odinists

Long, runs to 21 pages.

Our private Delphi sleuthing group is the best one on the Internet by far and has been since it was founded six years ago in 2017. Unlike any other sleuths, we learned who the police previously fingered as the main suspect in the crime, and we have a good idea of what happened during the crime and what the crime scene looked like.

Best of all, much of our information is via solid sources such as search party members, official case documents, and police sources who leak to us. So far, we have been proven correct about a number of bits of information that we released about the case that only the police could have known. A number of these facts were later released to the media.

Why not join the 275 members who have already signed up? There is a small fee of $20 minimum (you can always give more) to join, which includes lifetime membership. The $20 fee was demanded by our members in order to safeguard the privacy of their conversations, and it has worked very well.

Join the best Delphi sleuthing group of them all!

Sorry about the racist language below, but we’re putting into words the way these violent White Supremacist Odinists probably think about Blacks. We have nothing against the Flora girls or their mother ourselves. We don’t even think about them very much.

A Theory of the Flora Fires as an Odinist Crime, along with a Few Musings about the Delphi Odinists

A Few Musings about the Carroll County Vinlander Gang of Odinists, Who May Have Committed the Delphi Murders.

First of all, EF, who we believe took part in the murders, is not the BG we see on the bridge video. The BG we see on the bridge video is Mr. X. We’ve believed this for years, and even now, with the appearance of these Odinist suspects, we have not yet rejected this theory. There is simply too much in favor of it and very little against it.

Now, if EF isn’t Old BG or the man on the bridge, well, who the Hell is he?

Shouldn’t it be quite clear by now that EF may well be the young BG sketch, based on the young man with “evil eyes” seen acting suspiciously at the mailboxes on the short drive at the south end of the bridge at 8:30 AM on the day of the crime. The couple who saw him soon parked in their driveway soon afterwards and got out, alarmed, but he was already gone, ducking out of sight in a moment like a wild animal in the woods.

I’m forgetting the name of the woman who phoned the tip in, but she has since moved out of the area. I’m not sure about the time either because for a long time, it was said that she met him at noon. Some rumors even had her having a short conversation with him. This woman has since moved out of the area to California.

Look at EF. For God’s sake. He’s a dead ringer for Young BG. Also, we have an old photo of EF from 2017, and he has much more of an “ageless” face back then. He looks like either a prematurely aged young man or an older man with a young man’s face. He’s more of a baby face than a pretty boy, and baby-faced men always look neotenous. Indeed, EF looks exactly like he could be “18-40,” as the police said. Remember they also said that he may look older or younger than he actually is?

Our latest theory has the Odinists along with Mr. X killing these girls. We also continue to believe that a girl was pregnant and this motivated the murders. We have never had any absolute proof that a girl was pregnant, but two separate LE sources who leaked to us told us independently that it was true.

Another rumor for which we have absolutely no good, hard evidence yet is the particularly horrible one that this girl was disemboweled and had the contents of her internal cavity removed. However, the fact that a gut knife and a scalpel were used in the crime add weight to this rumor possibly being true. What else do you use a gut knife for but to gut an animal? And humans have animals. What else do you use a scalpel for but to cut out an organ? And humans have internal organs.

We know a gut knife was used because detectives were asking around in local hardware stores whether anyone had bought a gut knife recently. We know a scalpel was used because we know someone who somehow acquired a crime scene photo showing a scalpel lying on the forest floor.

A new rumor is that this poor girl was cut from sternum to pelvis.

That sounds like it might have been done with the same sword-like object that was used to cut the poor thing’s throat. This object has been suggested to be a sword, a machete, a long kukuri knife, or a scythe.

Interestingly, a scythe would fit in perfectly with this being an Odinist sacrifice because there was an ancient pagan ceremony done right around the time of year of the murders that involved placing horns on a victim’s head and cutting their throat with a scythe. The ceremony was done in early February and was tied in with a hope for a good start to the growing year come spring within ~6 weeks.

It seems pretty clear that this long bladed object was used in this crime, first to cut a girl’s throat and possibly again to eviscerate one of these poor thing. For one thing, it was widely reported, and for another, one of our police sources leaked to us that

a large bladed object was used in the crime.

However, we are quite certain that she was already dead when she was cut like that. In our opinion, she could not have lasted more than five seconds with that savage cut to the throat (the terrible latest rumor is that it was held on by only a small flap of skin). At least she didn’t suffer much.

EF says there were two other men with him. Those two other men may well have Mr. X and JM (referenced in the Franks motion), the latter of whom lived in the same city as EF, and like EF, was trying to get into the Vinlander gang. The murders could have been a “blood in” gang initiation task that the men had to carry out. Presumably there is a “blood out” penalty for leaving the gang that is probably not always enforced.

Speaking of the Franks motion, here is an excellent Youtube video on the subject by The Unraveling. She is very good! It’s mostly for entertainment value, but she’s engaging and smart, and if you think Allen is interested, you might want to watch her.

If BG is not EF or Mr. X, then who is it?

BH? In our opinion, he was not even there that day and we are dubious whether he played any role in this actual crime. There is a rumor that says he was watching through the trees the whole time, but we’re dubious of that. Also the height and weight seems way off and he had a full beard at the time. Furthermore, I believe he has a rock solid alibi.

However, I believe he knew that the murders were going to go down and didn’t try to stop them by warning the victims or anybody else or going to the police. This is perfectly legal. You could know about an upcoming homicide or even terrorist attack plot, and you are under no obligation to tell a soul, nor must you go to the police. The only exception is the mandatory reporters who must report child abuse, an idea we find very dubious. We’re not mandatory reporters here and that’s one thing we are very happy about!

It’s certainly possible that BH was in on the planning of the crime, but it doesn’t feel like it to us based on his behavior. Keep in mind that he and gang leader PW had a big fight a week before the murders, and there was a falling out. Soon afterwards, BH resigns as leader of the gang and PW takes over.

Here is what we think happened. A plot was hatched to kill a girl (the other one was probably collateral damage) for whatever reason, possibly because she would not get an abortion. It appears that the other girl was on the list to be killed too, but we don’t know why. BH may have been in on it at first or not, but by a week before the murders, we bet he got cold feet and wanted out or at least out of the commission of the actual murders.

Not that he’s a nice person. Obviously he’s not. But I don’t think he wants the murders of two pubescent girls on his watch. If he resigned on February 7, he would not be head of the organization when the murders went down. Instead, PW would be. So that way he won’t be responsible and if anyone might be, it would be PW, who took over the group one week before the murders and may be one of the intellectual authors of the crime. He covered his ass.

In addition, BH seemed to plan his posting day on Facebook for the day of the crime in advance. On the day of the crime, he posted repeatedly throughout the day talking about where he was and what he was doing. He usually doesn’t do that. We think he was posting to set up a list of good alibis, so he won’t be suspected of the crime that he probably wasn’t even officially in on anyway.

One of the Girl Victims Told People That Anthony Shots Was Supposed to Meet Them at the Bridge That Day

There were a few people who were supposed to go with the girls that day. According to one of the girls, she said that the other girl’s boyfriend, LH, son of BH, was supposed to go that day but BH would not let him. Incredibly enough, someone had warned LH the day before the crime not to go to the bridge because it might be dangerous. They didn’t elaborate.

If BH knew this plot was coming down, he didn’t want his son there to muck it up or even worse, get caught up in the mess and get murdered himself as collateral damage. The official line is that BH didn’t want LH to miss school, but we doubt if BH cares about things like that. He’s too ignoble and debased to be that responsible.

Her sister KG was also supposed to go but bailed out for some reason at the last minute.

In addition, incredibly enough, we have just learned that this girl victim told people that Anthony Shots (AS) was supposed to meet them at the bridge that day. So you can see that the Anthony Shots profile was somehow used by the people who committed the crime to lure this girls to the bridge that day. We have no idea who was controlling the AS profile who lured them here, and we doubt if it was Kegan or Tony Kline.

However, we have some good evidence that someone was hacking into Kegan’s computer while he was using the Anthony Shots profile because in the documents released, it stated that there were two people talking as Anthony Shots. One is obviously Kegan and another is someone else, and we don’t know who this person is. Kegan kept getting kicked off the Net and having to log back on and in the meantime this other voice comes on and takes over Anthony Shots. That’s what happens when someone is hacking into your computer while you’re online.

Kegan did have a dongle installed on his computer by his repairman for no known reason (it was installed for free, he didn’t ask for it to be installed, and promptly forgot it was even there). This dongle would theoretically allow a remote user to take over and commandeer another computer. The name of Kegan’s computer repairman is JP.

Perhaps coincidentally or maybe not, JP flew a drone over the bridge area the day before the crime and mapped out the whole area, sending the results to Google Maps. Looks like Google ripped him off too, as they used hardworking “volunteers” to do this work, which ought to have been paid work, for them. Figures. “Don’t be evil,” huh, Google? Whatever happened to that?

Our police source, while not being more detailed, told us that there was some sort of “luring” of the girls to the bridge that day. Many others have also heard this rumor. That the girls were catfished via the Internet is now an accepted fact of the case. We feel that they were lured there by someone controlling the Anthony Shots profile.

BH’s drunken confession to his girlfriend that PW’s gang killed the Delphi girls and did the Flora Fire murders feels right to us. Also, he warned his ex not to ask anymore questions about these matters because he said PW was very violent and if she kept asking questions, he couldn’t protect her anymore. Why on Earth would he warn her this way about a completely made-up story? Why would he make up a scurrilous lie about PW, with whom he had been tight for years?

He wouldn’t.

We’ve been studying this man for many years now, and we think we know him pretty well. He’s obviously an edgelord and he’s a huge shitlord too. On the other hand, we think he’s committed some serious acts of violence, but it’s just that he got away with it somehow. But he can’t provably link him to a single act of violence. This man is very serious and we think one thing he hates more than anything else is bullshitters and liars.

In a way, he is an honorable man because he has certain values that he holds dear. One is: Don’t be a flake and make up nasty stories about others accusing them or bad things when you know they’re not true. He’s a weird man and a bad man, but he’s surely not a flake. For these reasons, we’re quite certain that him implicating PW in these crimes is correct.

JM borrowed his girlfriend’s car (a ’65 Comet?), drove it to Delphi that day for unknown reasons, and returned it the next day to his girlfriend with blood all over the passenger side door. Asked by the girlfriend to explain it, he offered nothing. It took the girlfriend 3-4 car washes to get the blood off.

This is the first actual suspect vehicle we have had in this case, returned covered in blood from Delphi the next day at that! All of the other suspect vehicles have been very weak. This one is a gold mine.

This now ex-gf of JM said that JM and BH are two of the most violent men she’s ever known.

PW is also very violent. BH told his ex-wife that PW had had people killed, and he didn’t care if they were innocent  or guilty.

PW’s ex said once PW was asking about the whereabouts of a certain man because the man was on his hit list to be killed. Another time she called PW up, and PW answered the phone and told her he was holding a man hostage in his house. Then she heard a gunshot ring out.

We’d wager that this man has killed or has had people killed before, and other than that, he may well be the author of the Delphi Murders, although we seriously doubt he was there at the time. They’d have to nail him on a conspiracy charge by proving that he helped plan the crime, and best of luck proving that!

A Theory of the Flora Fire and a Possible Connection to the Delphi Murders

BH also said PW’s boys did the Flora Fire and killed those four Black girls. We also believe that that is correct and have long felt that both crimes are tied together.

This excellent video by Crime Knight goes into the BH and PW and Odinist angle of the crime very well, with superb production values and a very intelligent host. He’s trying to pitch the story to Hollywood and has been in consultations with Oliver Stone about it. The WordPress application is not letting me insert the video, so I am linking it here. It also has photos of both men, including the first photos I have ever seen of PW. Also some new evidence implicating BH in at least foreknowledge of the crime.

Group Discussion on the Delphi Murders

Here are a couple of group discussions we have been having about these murders, and they show that there are still so many things about this crime that just don’t add up.

One of our best sleuths and an officially certified genius to boot: Okay, I’m going to stay on the Delphi case here. If EF is YBG then he is the guy BB saw at around 2 PM standing on Platform One. The girls were let out at the trailhead at 1:49 PM. Figuring six to eight minutes to walk to the bridge, the girls get there at around 1:55-1:57 PM. To my knowledge BB never mentions seeing the girls at the bridge or on the trail, as she’s returning to her car.

If EF is on Platform One at 2 PM, and the girls arrive at the bridge at 1:57 PM, wouldn’t it be likely he was still in the area, if not still on the platform. Would the girls have gotten on the bridge and walked past a strange man? Wouldn’t they have looked at him, realized he wasn’t AS, and said,

Let’s go back where there are more people?

Next, no one was on the bridge but the girls at 2:07 PM per Libby’s photo. BG is then caught on video 50 feet away from them at 2:13 PM. He goes from no presence to “Here I am!” in seven minutes. That’s hustling.

But I would suggest BG is not EF. Similar hair color but that’s probably it from what I get from Libby’s video. If he’s not BG, then where does YBG go? Why was he on the platform at 2 PM? Was he supposed to ID the girls when they showed up? Then what?

But as I’ve stated, would the girls have gotten on the bridge if EF had been standing on the platform? EF puts himself at the bridge and the crime scene with two others and, but we have photographic evidence that he was not near or on the bridge at 2:07 PM.

There are a lot of moving parts here that don’t mesh. I don’t think people invest enough time on the known timelines. We have pretty solid visual testimony with an accompanying time from BB both at the bridgehead and her car passing the store.

We have two solid time markers from Libby’s phone. What we don’t have is the in-between  period. It’s almost like people disappear into the ether and then magically reappear. Why does BB not see the girls on the trail or at the bridge? Why do the girls not see EF at the bridge? Just how quickly can you cross the bridge if you’re fearless? It took the girls 13 minutes. It seems to have taken BG six or maybe seven.

Then there is the car issue. BB sees a strange car at 2:15 PM. It may or may not be connected with the crime. If JM’s girlfriend owns a 1965 ‘Comet’, then it’s significant. If not, then maybe it isn’t.

But at any rate LE kept asking about a car parked at the CPS lot between 12 and 5 PM. If EF is seen by the mailbox at 8:30 AM and the crime was over and done by 3:15-3:30 PM as LE has stated, then wouldn’t the car have been there before noon, and why would it still be there at 5 PM? It doesn’t take that long to walk from the crime scene to the parking lot. I’m 72 and can walk two miles in 40 minutes.

Lots of unanswered questions. Don’t know if your friends on the defense team have answers to any of these based on information the rest of us may or may not have. But all that being said none of this points to RA, who is not YBG, nor is he BG.

In fact, the PCA states his car is seen passing the store video at 1:30 PM which fits pretty well with his assertion that he left the park around 1:30 PM, something he told LE in two separate interviews. The leaving the park at 3:30 PM statement came from a third party that RA talked to and not RA himself.

But that third party also said RA arrived at the park at 1:30 PM (conveniently fitting the timeline of RA’s car on the store video) and got RA’s name wrong on his statement. He listed Allen’s surname name as the name of the street he lived on rather than Allen. Solid testimony there.

Don’t know if there is enough here to convict anyone of the crime, but it seems like there is plenty to exonerate RA. I’m half-tempted to pull up the PCA and take it apart piece by piece just for fun. It would be lengthy post but it would not hard to put together.

My response:

Me: Who saw the car that looks like a 65 Comet? If BB sees a white car at 2:15 which is probably the suspect vehicle, does she see the 65 Comet? Who sees that? LE should have gotten a warrant to search that JM’s girlfriend’s car to see if they could find any blood on it.

EF is obviously Young BG. Young BG is there at 8:30 AM and he’s still there at 2 PM. What’s he doing in the meantime?

The only reason I can think of that LE is looking for a car parked there between 12-5 PM is that Mr. X’s phone was pinging the CPS building from 12-5 PM the day of the murders when he claims he was in another town.

I don’t know about you, but say you are going to another town 15 miles away. Do you usually just look for an empty field full of weeds and just throw your phone in there while you’re gone and then come back to the field and pick it up when you come back? I do that all the time. Not! Mr. X agrees that his phone pings the CPS building during that period, but he has no explanation for why that is.

BG is not EF. I continue to insist that BG has to be Mr. X. There’s no other reasonable possibility.

Is Mr. X is in with the Odinists? Not that we ever heard.

The timelines of this time, even as we have them in latest corrected version, don’t make sense and there are so many things that don’t add up but that is always the case in complex homicide investigations. Trust me!

Also I publish in academic journals and books, and most of the articles I write are like that. It’s a gigantic investigation and all sorts of things don’t add up and don’t make sense. Then you start to put the jigsaw together and slowly it starts to add up, but even at the end, there are things that still don’t make sense. So I think many complex investigations about life phenomena don’t make complete sense. We are not each secular Gods, though we harbor that illusion well. So by definition we can’t know everything.

If you know a bit about something, you can come to facile conclusions, but once you start delving into deep studies of a lot of phenomena, it’s as if the more you learn about it, the more things don’t add up and the less you know (for sure). People get discouraged by the obvious fact that “this case makes no sense,” but that’s a lot of homicide investigations right there.

Look at the SNAFU that the Karenna McClerkin case was. The popular theories all turned out to be completely false, apparently completely made up somehow or other. Do people really make up these lies out of whole cloth or is it like the telephone game at a party where you start with a story and everyone retells it, and at the end, it looks nothing like what you started with?

I had some locals make up some really scurrilous lies about me out of whole cloth. They had me doing things that I never did! Someone must have just made that up. I can’t fathom why anyone would do that about anyone. I wouldn’t make up scurrilous lies about my worst enemy. I am an honorable man after all.

Two Theories of the Flora Fires

The Flora Fire was either due to racism or another factor.

Theory 1: A racist motive to burn the only Black family in Flora out of town.

The first and most obvious theory would be a racist one. The mother was rather marginal, unemployed, a single Mom, and on welfare.

The Vinlanders are hardcore violent White Supremacists who would undoubtedly not shy from committing a racial crimes, including a violent one. They may have been the only Black family in Flora, so perhaps there was a racist motive to burn them out of town. Racists have done this sort of thing to Black people before in this country.

However, one of our members who grew up in this part of Indiana said this might have been true when he was young in the 1960s and even 70’s, but he doesn’t think it’s true anymore. In the town where he grew up, Black kids could only swim in the public pool one day out of the month during the summer!

There were certain “sundown towns,” so-called due to a common sign on the edge of town that said something like,

Nigger don’t let the sun shine on your ass in this town or else.

Sure, Blacks worked there in the daytime, but they made sure to get the Hell out of there by nightfall. It is interesting that some of the towns in the area we grew up in were former sundown towns as recently as the 1960’s.

But he says the anti-Black racism has toned down quite a bit from those days and things are but a shadow of the past. So we’re rejecting this racist “burn the only Black family out of town” motive. Perhaps in Northeastern Tennessee, but even there, they’d most likely leave a burning cross on their front lawn. We heard of a Black family, the only one in the valley, being burned out in that way from one of the hollers up there, and this was in the last decade. But Northeastern Tennessee is far more racist than Northeastern Indiana.

Theory 2 (our theory):

However, we have another theory and this has to do with a man named MS. MS owned the pizza parlor in town. For some odd reason, people keep thinking there is a pizza parlor–Flora Fire connection (they were almost right next to each other) and even a pizza parlor–Delphi Murders connection or a pizza parlor–Delphi Murders–Flora Fire connection. All just theoretical and hazy rumors.

Abby and Libby also used to hang out there a lot.

MS was arrested and we guess convicted of “child molestation” for having sex with his 13 year old daughter. Now, we don’t think that’s molestation, but a lot of states say it is. Anyway, more importantly, he apparently started having sex with her several years before, perhaps when she was 9-10. Ok, now that does make him a child molester!

Most familial molesters like that are non-pedophilic and are no more interested in little girls than you, me, or anyone else. They tend to be psychopathic and this is just another form of abuse they engage in along with verbal, physical, etc. They’re not pedophiles. They’re just criminals! They typically do not molest outside of the family because the molestation is all tied up in family dynamics and not attraction to little girls.

However! Once again, keep in mind that MS is a child molester. In addition, he was suspiciously spending a lot of time around those four little Black girls. We don’t know all the details, but we know he regularly hosted pizza tasting parties with free pizza for them. The girls were over at the parlor constantly meeting up with him for this purpose.

So he had a very close relationship with those girls. We do think it’s a bit weird for a 35 year old man to get very close to four very young girls, but whatever. It could possibly be a completely innocent interaction. 60 years ago, a man of that age could easily have made friends with little girls with nothing untoward to become of it and most people wouldn’t have looked twice.

Little girls are delightful and maybe that’s the only attraction. We know they seem that way to us, especially when they’re around age 7-8. There’s no sexual attraction for us at that age, but there is a delight about them that is quite endearing.

However, a 35 year old child molester showing intense interest in four very young girls to whom he became very close is rather alarming to me. Sure, maybe it’s nothing but it’s creepy and needs to be examined to see if there’s anything there.

Our theory is that MS was molesting one or more of those little Black girls. Keep in mind that we have absolutely no evidence for this whatsoever. Instead we simply think it is an interesting avenue that is suggestive and more than theoretically possible that ought to be investigated.

Assuming he was, don’t ask us how he was getting away with it as we’re not molesters here. Lord knows how molesters get away with their molestations. But he got away with molesting his little girl daughter for 3-4 years, so we assume he knows how to get away with this stuff. Anyway, let’s say he did this for a while and then he found out one or more of the girls was going to tell their Mom, and the Mom might go to the police.

Now he would be looking at a child molestation bust. Keep in mind this would be happening years before he goes down on the charge with his daughter. MS freaks out. Keep in mind that MS’s father is very close to PW’s father, and both live in Delphi. MS and PW lived close to each other and grew up together in Delphi.

MS is a very creepy guy whose webpage was covered with all sorts of BH-like creepy, morbid, violent, and even occult stuff. He had a photo where he was posing collapsed under a tree with a noose above it, suggestion being he had just been hanged on the tree and was now dead. This is his mindset.

We actually thought he was a Satanist when we cruised his webpage a while back, but a lot of these tough, bad boy, working class White men in Northeastern Indiana put on airs like that by associating themselves in fact or fantasy with Satanism, racism, White Supremacism, Odinism, a criminal and gang mindset, drug dealing or drug use (often methamphetamine), criminal and civil lawsuit records, broken marriages with attendant scattered children, White Supremacist gangs, gun and knife collections, prison and jail culture, and generally an air of being scary, menacing dudes.

These men are a dime a dozen over there, and we guess  women in this part of Indiana like their men like that – as mean and scary as possible! Working class White women love bad boys and even bad men, the latter being a lot worse than the former. They’re far worse than middle class White women in that sense, many of whom, like our mothers, grew out of that phase after high school.

MS asks around to his racist and White Supremacist friends and says

This shitty little ghetto Black niglet is going to make a false charge against me for sexually molesting her, and I didn’t do a damn thing. Maybe patted her on the head or back a time or two. She’s doing it because she’s a lousy ghetto Black lying taking off after her mom, a Black ghetto welfare leech.

Next he asks a question.

An echo sounds across the green land. It began in a 12th Century castle, exploding through the halls. It rang clammering through the centuries. It has brought us here,  to our present state, to this most auspicious of moments:

Who will rid me of this meddlesome little girl?

Call it paraphrasing if you will. The analogy is clear.

Indeed, the same question may have been the impetus behind the Delphi murders, say we change a mere word or two:

Who will rid me of this troublesome nymphet?

In both theories, the target is a turbulent female, a girl or teen, set to ruin a good man’s life. The two premises share the legal and social timebomb of adult-minor sex, exploding out into the moral panic of unreason already rocking the land. In each postulation, an albatross hangs round a good man’s neck, a little brat who won’t do as she’s told, a problem that needs taking care of. With great prejudice, as the soldiers say.

Let’s say one of the people he goes to is PW and his Odinist boys. Perhaps MS has some interest or involvement in this scene too. He knows these guys are badass and are known to “take care of problems” for people, and you don’t ask or care how they go about it.

PW says,

Don’t worry, we’ll come up with something.

The plot to burn out the Black family, specifically these  little Black girls, these impertinent undersized pests, about to ruin a good White man’s life on a false charge, is hatched. MS is either in on it (in the planning stages) or not and he either knows about it (he may well) or not. We really doubt if he was there that night burning down that house. If he was in on it but wasn’t there, good luck proving a conspiracy charge against him. We don’t think he’s very good at actual violent crimes like that. That’s the realm of PW’s boys.

MS probably plays it up as,

These lousy miniature nigger brats are trying to ruin my life, a good White man’s life, and I never touched them sexually, I swear. You know me. I don’t do that stuff, come on.

He’s never been known to do such things, so why not believe him? Besides, bitsy no-good ghetto Black nits lie a lot, and everyone knows nits become lice, in this case ghetto thugette ratchet lice. Better to take them out pre-emptively and pre-empt some victims later on.

If he went to PW and said he molested the girls, it would not go over well with PW who comes from White jail and prison gang culture, as they’re known to murder child molesters on sight when they show up in prison.

Later, MS is arrested for molesting his daughter and the evidence against him is pretty good. PW etc. cut off contact with him. Where there’s smoke, there’s fire. So maybe he molested those little Black girls after all!

Oh well, they were just little niglets, soon to be ghetto nigger hatchets, and good riddance! PW doesn’t care if those little bitches were innocent or not. They’re better off gone and our future world is a bit better with four fewer ghetto ratchets in it.

Patrick has people killed and he doesn’t care if they’re innocent or not.

So BH told his ex-wife. Remember that? What was he referring to? Maybe the Flora Fire? After all those girls may well have been innocent of the charge they were murdered for.

We have no idea if any of this is true, but we believe BH is correct when he said PW’s boys killed the Flora girls. So why not do the Delphi girls? These are badass mofo’s who’ve already murdered four little Black girls.

These guys clearly don’t care. They’ll kill little girls. They’ll kill young teenage girls. They’ll kill anyone. They’re not particular.

We’ve nailed down the actors in Flora. We’re just uncertain of the motive, not who did it. Of course we could always be wrong as we have been so many times in the past. But we have a feeling that these latest leads are finally onto something real.

As in Delphi, PW probably did not participate in the actual arson and had his underlings do it.

PW is like a Mafia don in that sense. He just orders hits and his men carry them out although he is the intellectual author of many murders. You can only get him on conspiracy and good luck getting a conspiracy to commit homicide charge where that’s the only charge you’ve got on someone! Not an easy task.

It’s very hard to get conspiracy to commit homicide charges in a lot of cases where that is the only evidence against the accused. The accused can always say,

Oh, that wasn’t a real plot. We were just talking out of our heads about some crazy fantasies we have. True, we like to think about about some really evil stuff, but it all ends there, and we’re not stupid enough to carry it out.

In fact, this is exactly what the defense argues in these cases.

To prove conspiracy you have to prove that the accused did not just discuss killing someone, no matter in what depth. You have to prove that they had an actual, literal plot to murder someone which was then followed through. Hard to prove when that’s all you’ve got, and many people tried for this crime, including some stone-cold killers, end up walking at the end of the day.

McNamara’s Morons, Or the Range of Lower and Lower Average IQ’s

Polar Bear: Jordan Peterson spoke of 10% of Americans with an IQ below 80 that the military won’t touch because they can’t even do basic duties. I don’t care much about IQ, but below a certain #, you’re fucked. I talked to an Army guy years ago when I was young enough to join. He spoke of some easy test they give, and they try to make each cadet feel special for passing. Sounded like an “everyone’s a winner” type of deal but apparently some aren’t even there.

I heard the cutoff was IQ = 92, but perhaps I am wrong. I think they did studies and below 92 IQ, soldiers start making mistakes that have serious consequences on the battlefield. This stemmed from McNamara getting rid of intelligence requirements during the Vietnam War where they started letting in lower IQ soldiers. Perhaps with an IQ > 80? They were called “McNamara’s morons,” they had a high death rate, and they also seemed to be getting other soldiers killed.

I’m not sure if the cutoff was 80 or 92 though. If 92, it’s dumb to call them morons because 90-91 IQ’s are absolutely average in every sense of the word. Perhaps lower average but average nonetheless.


90-99 IQ: Low Average or Lower Average IQ, however, also 90-100 = Average IQ.

80-89 IQ: Low IQ, however, a lot of these function pretty damn well and are not obviously stupid except I’d probably call them that, but then, I peer down with aquiline eyes and Roman nose from a lofty eyrie, so my view of them is skewed.

70-79 IQ: “Borderline” IQ, but keep in mind that there are many entire nations with IQ’s in this range, and they’re not exactly nations of retards. This includes Qatar and Pakistan among others. I think I’ve had some girlfriends in this range, but one of them was one of the horniest and dirtiest bitches I’ve ever fucked. She was 18 when I fucked her too.

>69 IQ: Mental retardation or whatever the woke term for them is anymore, though some people in the low 70’s IQ range (especially 70-72) may seem like this too, and they often have a lot of problems functioning although they can work, marry, have children, live on their own and some are even successful farmers who came into some land and hire people to work it. They’re known for being very people-pleasing and for being very easy to convince to do whatever you want them to do.

You wonder why I get tired of these dangerous retards pushing this Teenage Girl Sex Panic where anyone who has sex with a teenage girl is a “PETAFILE”!!!!!!!!!! HUR DUR HUR HUR!

One of the horniest women I ever fucked was an 18 year old girl! But no, they’re little children and an 18 year old girl is the same as an 8 year old girl. Fucktards! Dangerous fucktards! Fucktards are a dime a dozen. I probably run into more than a couple of them every day. But dangerous fucktards are a whole other level of dull menace!

Delphi Murders Update September 23, 2023: Defense Makes Stunning Franks Motion That Turns Case upside down and Crime Scene Photos Showing Stick Horns Placed on Victim’s Head Published!

Warning: Long, runs to 37 pages.

Our private Delphi sleuthing group is the best one on the Internet by far and has been since it was founded six years ago in 2017.

Unlike any other sleuths, we learned who the police previously fingered as the main suspect in the crime, and we have a good idea of what happened during the crime and what the crime scene looked like.

Best of all, much of our information is via solid sources such as search party members, official case documents, and police sources who leak to us.

So far, we have been proven correct about a number of bits of information that we released about the case that only the police could have known. A number of these facts were later released to the media.

Why not join the 275 members who have already signed up? There is a small fee of $20 minimum (you can always give more) to join, which includes lifetime membership. The $20 fee was demanded by our members in order to safeguard the privacy of their conversations, and it has worked very well.

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This post will deal with the latest document released by Richard Allen’s defense team. Careful, it is 132 pages long. I’d urge you to read the document.

The document makes it quite clear to me that Richard Allen is not guilty of this crime and that these Odinists may indeed be the authors of these murders. At the very least, the Odinist theory is an excellent theory about and the men discussed are excellent suspects in this crime, and I think we need to look a lot harder at this theory and these men.

I Have Been Working with Richard Allen’s Defense Team for Months Now

First of all, I should point out for the purposes of disclosure that I have been working with the Richard Allen defense team for several months now, so obviously I am biased here.

First of all, I would like to report that a lot of people, mostly locals, are working with Allen’s defense team in a similar capacity as I am, and the conversations they have with the team are not violating the gag order on either end anymore than mine are.

However, in response to some recent accusations, I am not covered by the gag order, so I’m not violating any gag order, nor is anyone I’m working with. I am working with Andrew Baldwin and mostly his private investigator.

Those guys are really limited in what they can tell me.  I go out, do my investigations with my sleuths, and then report back to the investigator over the phone. He sits and takes notes and doesn’t say much else. Then they use or don’t use the my research depending on what they want to do with it.

I am not an official part of the defense team. I’m just one of the many people with information that they talk to sometimes. I always call them and report what my investigations found. They never call me for information. I signed nothing with the team legitimizing any official relationship the team. I am not receiving a salary for my work with them.

Therefore, I’m not covered by the gag order, but they are covered by the gag order when they talk to me, which limits what they can say to me. A few times when I asked them a question, they told me they couldn’t answer it because of the gag order.

They can only talk about things that, first, are already widely rumored and discussed by other people either online or in person, or second, are actual public knowledge that’s already out there and is uncontroversial. Both of these forms of information fall under the “public knowledge” category.

What they cannot and do not talk to me about is “defense-interal” information that the defense team has uncovered in the course of their defense.

They are aware that I am a well-known journalist and sleuth who is very knowledgeable about the case and has written hundreds of pages about it for the last six years, but I’m not even sure if they read my articles or if they’ve even been to my website or know its name.

I’m not writing these pieces in concert with them or as part of some plan or plot to further Allen’s defense, and in fact, this is the first article I’ve written about this case in 9 1/2 months, and I doubt if they’re even aware of it. They have given me permission to report that I worth with them in this capacity.

Apparent Police Misconduct in Manufacturing Evidence against Richard Allen and Discounting Exculpatory Evidence against Him Make the Search Warrant Evidence Inadmissible Due to an Illegal Search

It is a request for a Franks hearing regarding the evidence used to acquire the search warrant for Richard’s home. Apparently much of the evidence used to acquire that warrant was manufactured by the police. Further, the police engaged in quite a few lies of omission in acquiring the warrant, which, if they would have stated them, may have required the judge to turn down the request for the warrant.

A Franks hearing is based on a case named Franks from the 1960’s where the defense challenges the evidence used to acquire a search warrant and whether it was good enough to grant one. The defense strategy would be to get the judge to disallow all of the evidence obtained in the warrant since it was found by an illegal search.

Furthermore, the document seems to indicate either an intent to frame Richard Allen or a deliberate attempt to overlook certain excellent suspects for whatever reason. After his arrest, the police seem to be either trying to frame him or else they are so convinced that he did it that they are blinded to all other theories.

However, the sheriff, TL, who seems to have been the main one manufacturing evidence and telling lies to implicate Allen was also running for Sheriff. When Allen was arrested, the election was only a month away. So clearly it looks like they wanted to round up one of the usual suspects just to get an arrest in the case because the police are sadly being beaten to Hell and back over not solving this case.

An Example of Magical Thinking: The Notion That Any Competent Police or Intelligence Force Could Always Be Able to Stop Any Terrorist Attack before It Happens or Solve Any Crime after It Does

Keep in mind that we do not fault the police for not solving the case, and we are not calling them incompetent. Blinded? Perhaps. Recently trying to frame an innocent man out of desperation? Possibly.

What makes people think the cops can solve every high-profile or gruesome homicide out there? What makes you think they can solve every serial homicide? The cops, despite their best work, often cannot solve crimes, including some of the worst ones.

This idea that the police are incompetent if they cannot solve a high profile case or series of crimes is an example of magical thinking. People thinking this way ascribe God-like powers to the police and assume that, since they are God, obviously they can solve any case fairly quickly. But the cops are not Gods, secular or otherwise.

What makes you think that counterterrorism forces can stop every terrorist or guerrilla attack against their own forces? Counterterrorism operatives cannot necessarily catch and stop all terrorist attacks before they happen. How is this a failure of intelligence gathering? What makes you think that federal police or the CIA have the God-like ability to uncover every terrorist or guerrilla attack before it happens. Once again this is an example of magical thinking in thinking intelligence agencies have God-like qualities.

If the group has a cell structure, uses encrypted and secure communications, and takes the best precautions, there’s no reason to think that they can’t sneak past the best efforts. We need to stop seeing every failed effort to solve a crime or predict and stop a terrorist attack as a “failure” of some sort.

Why Police Sometimes “Round up the Usual Suspects” in an Unsolved Famous or High-Profile Crime

Our best police source, a female detective from Indiana or environs, told us that there was a risk in these types of cases that the police might just grab one of the usual suspects off the street and string them up for the crime. She said,

This is always a risk in a case like this.

However, she didn’t think this would happen because she felt that an arrest of the man she said was the main suspect of the police, Mr. X, would be coming shortly. We’ve now lost touch with her for over a year because the person we were using as a go-between to talk to her, someone extremely close to her, retired and took off touring the country in an RV and we haven’t been able to contact them since.

Problems with the New Arguments: Where Does This Leave Previous Evidence of Police Suspicion of Mr. X as the Author of the Crime?

If the defense theory is true, then this calls into question the theory we have been pushing for a couple of years now, that Leigh Kerr (who was a good source) and our detective source both agreed with, which is that Mr. X was the main suspect. Keep in mind that we never once identified Mr. X or published his photo. Please note also that never once did we say that Mr. X killed those girls. We laid out a theory that he might have done so, but never said he did it. That’s for the law to decide. All we ever said from the start was:

Mr. X is the police’s main suspect in the Delphi Murders and has been since a few months after the investigation.

We had LE sources verifying this for us, if you wonder why we ran with this particular theory.

The official position of this blog is that we have no idea who killed those girls. Sure there are some great suspects and we’ve mentioned them. As far as Mr. X goes, our position is that

Mr. X is one very suspicious man.

That goes for this Odin/Vinlander crew also who the Franks motion points the finger at as the authors of the crime. These men all strike me as extremely suspicious, but we have no idea if they killed those girls. Courts decide these things, not us.

If Mr. X is the killer (and there is some excellent evidence that he is indeed the man on the bridge), then how could these Odinists have been in on it too? Or did Mr. X participate with the Odinists? Also, the motive for the crime, the murder of one girl because her mother was a “race traitor,” does not line up with the Mr. X’s motive that the detective told us, which was that a girl was supposedly pregnant, and the homicide was an attempt to cover this up.

I will state right now that we are certain that Mr. X and BH are extremely close, nearly tied at the hip. BH is also very close to Mr. X’s son and the man who reportedly impregnated a victim, Mr. M. Keep in mind that Mr. M is also the nephew of the police officer (with the same last name), Nate Miller, who is suspected of supplying a false alibi for Mr. X, possibly due to the peripheral involvement of Mr. M in the plot.

All of these men are connected as part of a “men’s club” called The Lafayette Boys’ Club.

BH is said to be the “enforcer” for this club.

Judge F, BH, Mr. X, CM, and the Mysterious Lafayette Boys Club Possible Connection

The central figure around this club is a former judge, Judge F., who is a rather malicious and menacing character himself. There is a video on the Net of a call girl who said she was a member of this club. She walked in on this judge once when he was having sex with a prostitute, and he had his hands around her neck as if he were strangling her. This freaked her out pretty badly. Problem is I doubt if that’s even against the law.

We originally wrote up this club falsely because we didn’t understand it very well. We described it as a sex trafficking organization that trafficked girls and young women from 14-20, kept them prisoner as sex slaves, and also used them to make pornographic movies, some involving minor females (which can probably get a top dollar) which were then offered for sale.

We have now learned that the truth about this club is rather more tame. The girls that are members of the club are young, mostly teenage girls who came before the judge in his courtroom, as he saw a lot of juvenile cases. He’s known to have befriended some of these wayward lasses who appeared before him.

We’ve never heard of anything untoward going on with these friendships, and in my opinion, just as anyone can legally say anything to anyone (with a couple of exceptions that are hard to prove), similarly, anyone of any just about age can theoretically befriend any human of any just about other age, and it’s certainly acceptable for adults to befriend minors (especially teenagers who are nearly adults themselves) as long as nothing illegal happens. There’s no law called Illegal Talking or Illegal Friendship, but don’t worry, the sex fascists are working on it!

Anyway the accusation is one of this judge “grooming” these girls to be part of his club once they come of age and are legal. Now the very idea of the sex fascists that you can groom a teenage girl into sex is preposterous. You can only groom a small child. You have to groom children because they don’t know what sex is.

Can you seduce a teenage girl? You’re damn right you can!

I’m really getting sick of this asinine sex fascist conflation of the seduction of teenagers with the grooming of small children for the purposes of out and out child molestation.

Also, you can’t really groom someone years beforehand so you can have sex with them once they become legal. That’s just ridiculous. Grooming is done to small children, not teenagers, by child molesters, not statutory rapists, for immediate sexual satisfaction on their part, not for some far-off, vague sexual goal.

Anyway, this judge befriends these girls, often when they are below the Age of Consent (16 in Indiana). He specializes in troubled girls who are involved in sex, drugs, drinking, running way, delinquency, etc. Many come from some pretty dubious households. After they turn 16 and become legal, he tries to get them to join his Lafayette Boys’ Club, and a number of them do.

The girls are all legal and a number join quite willingly. There is drinking and quite possibly also drug use involved at this club. As members, these young females often have sex with adult men who are also members of the club. I know nothing about any porn movies being made of them having sex. I have no idea what these girls are getting out of it. Perhaps they are paid. Perhaps they are given drugs to use or keep. Perhaps they simply enjoy having sex with the men in the club. Females, even quite young ones, like sex too, you know.

No girl lives at the club residence, nor is any girl being held hostage, so there’s no sex trafficking. I personally don’t see anything wrong with it, as it’s all legal and above board, and if something’s legal, then it’s ok in my book. On the other hand, people do think it’s sleazy that this judge used his position to befriend vulnerable girls, then used this friendship to encourage them to become members of his club and sex partners for these men.

So there you have an excellent link between BH and Mr. X and also between BH and Mr. M, the man who impregnated the girl. What these relationships mean in terms of this crime, I do not know.

The Possible Early Pregnancy of a Girl Victim

We got bashed from here to Kingdom Come over this rumor, but keep in mind that the idea that a victim was pregnant has been a very hot rumor locally since shortly after the crime. A couple of years later, we were told by a sheriff’s deputy in a nearby county:

One of they girls was in the early stages of pregnancy.

Later our detective source reiterated that this girl was in fact pregnant and described this as a motive for the crime.

So we had two excellent LE sources who told our team directly that this girl victim was pregnant. Well, excuse us for running with that theory! Is it possible the police lied to us or misinformed us? Possibly. But that would not be our fault.

I would like to point out that there is no mention of a girl being pregnant or a pregnancy motive for the murders in the Franks document. Perhaps this is the case but they just decided not to mention it. Perhaps this information has not been turned over to the defense yet. Perhaps no girl was pregnant.

At the moment, our official position is we are simply not certain about whether a girl was pregnant or whether a pregnancy motivated the homicide.

Franks Document Makes Excellent Case for Odinist Involvement in the Murders

I would add that the Franks document lays out an excellent case for the involvement of the Odinists in this double homicide. We have several confessions and near-confessions by EF, who wanted to join the Odinists and BH, an Odinist leader, both of whom may have participated in this crime, confessions by BH that other close persons, namely another leading Odinist named PW, were involved, and a number of people, EF and a man who was “like  a father to him” named RA, who are clearly lying about their alibis.

The confession by EF is interesting because it mentions an aspect of the crime, that branches resembling horns were placed on a girl’s head, that only the killers could have known. This is the first time we have had any suspect discuss an aspect of the crime that only the killers would have known.

We have one of the suspects, an Odinist wannabe associate of BH, PW, and EF named JM, asking to borrow his girlfriend’s car on that day when he was heading to the Delphi area. When the car was returned there was blood all over one side of the car that took several car washes to remove. JM offered no explanation for the blood.

So, for the first time in the case, we actually have a suspect vehicle that was driven to Delphi that day and returned covered in blood, and we have a suspect who drove the car that day and returned it covered in blood! It would seem imperative that police locate this vehicle pronto! The girlfriend described JM and BH as two of the most violent men she’s ever known.

BH himself described PW as a very dangerous man who has had people killed, and he doesn’t care if they’re innocent or guilty. He said he was very afraid of this man. An ex-girlfriend of PW described a situation where she was on the phone to him when he was holding a hostage in a home and she then heard a gunshot. On another occasion she heard that this man was looking for a certain person in order to have them killed.

The Odinists belong to a White Supremacist gang called the Vinlanders. BH and PW are a prominent member of this gang.

This Blog Ran a Long Post Years ago on BH, His Son JH, and the Odinist and Vinlander Connection

We wrote a very long post on BH a while back because he had been a hot suspect of ours for some time. Unfortunately I cannot find that post right now. If anyone can find that post, will they please contact me?

We turned his whole life upside town from the time he was born until a couple of years into the future and followed him from the hospital where he was born everywhere he went afterwards from here to Timbuktu, and he has traveled all the way to Timbuktu – in fact, he has gone thousands of miles further than that.

The post concluded that neither BH nor his son LH were involved in this crime. Nevertheless, the son came to my website and left threatening messages, and we heard that BH was sending people out to try to find me for a long time afterwards, though it looks like they didn’t succeed, in part because I’m an extremely hard person to locate. And all of this was for an article where we stated loudly that they were both innocent! What a couple of cerebrally dislocated hotheads!

I believe we also posted photos of this entire Vinlander gang, which is not a large group (perhaps 10-15 male members). The photo identified some of them by name and can be found out on the Net somewhere, including PW, who may be the founder. We also had photos of BH and his son LH. We had a photo of BH’s Vinlander group participating in one of their Odinist ceremonies with torches, etc.

Indeed, BH’s son, LH, was dating Abby Williams, one of the murder victims. We ruled out the son very quickly, but we had to take a lot longer on the confusing BH before we decided to rule him out too.

BH’s Basic Personality and Life Story

By all accounts, BH is not a very pleasant or engaging fellow. He’s described as mean, angry, scary, creepy, “full of hate,” and even evil. It’s said that he hates women and non-Whites. The sexism apparently stems from a very rocky relationship with an ex. He served in Afghanistan and some think he acquired PTSD over there. We’d like to take this moment to thank Mr. BH for his service.

I’ve seen many of his posts on Facebook both before and after the crime, and to say he was callous was an understatement. He didn’t even want to drive his son to the girl’s funeral. He made many tasteless posts after the murders implying either that he was making a sick joke out of or implying that he was involved or pretending to be involved in the murders.

I’ve also heard his voice recordings and creepy doesn’t even begin to describe the vibe he gives off. He seems, frankly, evil. But then lots of folks do, and that’s not against the law yet. In his defense it seems clear that he fashions himself in addition to being an Odinist as a warlock or Satanist. He have some photos and testimony along those lines.

Like Aleister Crowley, Anton LaVey of the United Church of Satan, filmmaker Kenneth Anger, or to a lesser extent people like rock star Jimmy Page, a Kenneth Anger fan, and Rick Wilder of the early LA punk band the Mau Mau’s, BH is going out of his way to be seen as a deliberately evil person, perhaps even an incarnation of the Devil. This is how he wants people to see him. He wants to seem scary and wicked; he gets off on it.

BH wouldn’t be the first oddball to pretend to have committed these crimes. We had a main suspect for four years, EA, who was running around hinting to everyone that he committed these murders. We eventually ruled him out, but excuse us for suspecting a guy who made multiple videos hinting that he killed those girls and posted them online!

Contrary to what everyone says, we never named him except by an anonymous initial (we are listing his initials now for the first time) and we never posted his photo. Sure, he was a suspect but that was internal to our group. I’m pretty sure we can say anything we want to about anyone behind closed doors! That’s not illegal yet either, but don’t worry, the police staters are working on it! I’d apologize to him but he’s such a horrible person that I’m not even going to bother, and he won’t accept it anyway.

One of our female members approached him to apologize on our behalf for suspecting him, and he launched into a wild, obscenity-laced tirade where he repeatedly threatened to rape and murder her. As you can see, he’s quite the fine and respectable gentleman!

Photo of Murder Victim with Possible Stick Horns on Her Head Uncovered!

EF said he was at the bridge and in the forest with those girls on the day they died. He said he spit on one of the girls and was worried that his DNA could ID him that way. This man also said that one of the girls (Abby) was a troublemaker, so he fashioned horns out of sticks and positioned them over her head, either making her look like a horned animal or a devil.

People have noted that we ran a photo of Abby’s body with horns appearing above her head. I just located that photo (see below). It has very poor resolution and little can be made out. The horns were so weird that we originally thought it was some photo artifact that crept in due to the extreme distance of the photo, other nearby objects, and and manipulation we had to do to the photo.

In addition, Abby’s legs are positioned in the exact way they are described in the Franks document, with one being slightly bent at the knee in a sacrificial posture that looks like the Hanged Man on a Tarot deck. However, we also have another crime scene photo and a couple of crime scene witnesses describing both girls as spreadeagled in the sexual tableau referred to by Leigh Kerr, so the matter remains confused.

The person who marked up the photo also made a pointer to an object on top of Abby that they said is a stick or log. And now we hear that there are sticks or logs associated with this crime as we have long stated, however, they were positioned on top of the girls to make runic or sacrificial patterns instead of being stabbed into the girls’ bodies as we had been told.

Nevertheless, the girls may still have been sexually assaulted with sticks even though this was not mentioned in the new document.

We were told about the sexual assault with sticks explicitly from two separate police sources – the wife of a detective working on the case and a detective in Indiana in another area of LE who saw crime scene photos. In addition, our detective source told us less explicitly that that the girls were “sexually assaulted with foreign objects,” apparently yet another references to the sexual assault with sticks. So we have the idea of sexual assault with sticks or twigs explicitly or more obliquely from three separate police sources. That’s good enough to run with it.

One argument against us running these photos is that this photo and other crime scene photos we have posted are obscene or child porn. The problem is these photos were taken from a helicopter far away, and they are very indistinct. You can barely tell those are two human beings unless someone draws circles around them. They appear more like stick figures or better yet outlines drawn by an artist. They are literally only a couple of vague human-shaped objects with nothing more to be seen in them.

So we don’t think those photos are untoward, in poor taste, obscene, or illegal.

Warning: disturbing photo below. Do not look at it unless you are prepared to handle such things.

“Horns” on Abby’s head. Note that EF stated that he put sticks over Abby’s head and  fashioned them into horns because she was a “troublemaker.” Initially, which you can see in our original post where this photo appeared, we thought the “horns” were an unfortunate artifact in the photo from  the light reflecting off of the detective’s cameras who were photographing the body. I believe that the round object you can see on the right pane of the photo is the flash of a detective’s camera. According to our graphic artist, one object is a large log laid across Abby’s right thigh. Her arms are also outstreched as described in the Franks document. I do not think Abby was dressed in shorts though. ©Beyond Highbrow. All rights reserved.

Repeated Attempts by Police to Frame Suspects in This Case

It is our position that the police have made repeated attempts to frame different people for this crime because they were not able to make an arrest of the main suspect, Mr. X, and they were under tremendous pressure to make an arrest. Now keep in mind that we do not know if the police were consciously trying to frame these men. Perhaps they become convinced of their guilt and tried to torture confessions out of them to wrap up the case. But there have definitely been multiple attempts to pressure or torture confessions out of people in this case.

Attempt to Frame Ron Logan for the Delphi Murders

As most know, Ron Logan was the first person arrested in  this case and was a person of interest for some time until he was dropped a couple of years later. A former FBI agent continues to insist that he killed those girls. Our group gave up on him a long time ago, and our best police source scornfully noted that he’d been dropped as a suspect some time ago.

They’re not looking for a 76 year old man!

She said scornfully.

After his arrest, we don’t know if he was beaten up or not but people get beat up in intake all the time. Anyway, he was stripped of all of his clothing and put in the drunk tank or crazy room – the rubber room for crazy, hostile, intoxicated or people who are otherwise at risk of harming themselves or others. It’s also the first place the cops throw you after they beat you up in intake. He was left in the rubber room completely naked for a number of days, possibly 3-4 days.

Then he was thrown in a cell, still completely naked. He wasn’t given his clothes back until a week after his arrest. They took his medications (he was an elderly man) and his dentures (he had no teeth) and would not give them back to him. Then they proceeded to give him nothing but very hard food that needed a lot of chewing. Imagine trying to eat that with your dentures gone. At some point, they stopped all of this behavior.

Logan was very angry and felt they were trying to frame him for the murders. He also said he thought they were trying to torture a confession out of him. The unspoken rule was that if he confessed to the crime, all of the torture would end, but Ron said he refused to break.

Attempt to Frame Garrett Kirts for the Delphi Murders

The next person the police tried to torture a confession out of was Garrett Kirts. Kirts and his girlfriend were involved in the murders of a gay man and a young woman. This case is quite complex and I don’t have time to go into it now. Kirts has been a major suspect on lot of people’s radar for some time. Ron Logan felt that Kirts had killed the girls. However the motivations and victims of the Kirts homicides were very different from the presumed motivations and known victims in the Delphi Murders, so our team never suspected him much.

However, the rumors around town are that the same treatment that was given to Ron Logan was given to Kirts, all in an effort to get him to confess. Apparently here the police openly stated that if he confessed, the maltreatment would stop. What we heard was:

The police all but waterboarded Kirts to get him to confess.

Although my memory of this is very hazy, I seem to recall reading comments along the lines that Garrett Kirts had repeatedly confessed to the murders, then retracted his confession, then said he knew who did it, then said he had no idea who did it.

He was supposedly all over the place saying everything under the sun about his role or knowledge of this crime. It amounted to nothing but a wreck of chaos, which is what one might expect if someone was trying to confess to get torture to stop but then retract a confession to try to avoid implication in a crime.

Other than the one local rumor that this occurred between the police and Kirts, we have not been able to verify that this is what happened. I’m not even sure he made chaotic statements about his knowledge and role in the crime. My memory tells me that’s what I read, but your memory plays tricks on you.

Attempt to Frame Richard Allen for the Delphi Murders

We believe that the police have been trying to torture and threaten a confession out of Richard Allen also. First of all he was placed in solitary confinement right away and has been kept in solitary 23 hours a day for eight months now. I doubt if there is a good reason for that. He was also placed in one of the worst state prisons in Indiana, when he should have been placed in a local jail.

We believe that the police at this prison may have been putting things in food. We suspect that they were putting laxatives in his food. That would cause serious diarrhea and dehydration. We also heard that he was not been given enough water to drink and had become dehydrated. At some point, he started refusing food.

We think he refused food because he thought they were putting things in it and they may well have been doing just that. At some point, he went completely psychotic and his defense team was not able to have even the barest minimum conversation with him. They described his condition as “psychotic.”

Richard Allen May Never Have Made “Multiple Confessions of his Guilt to Multiple People!”

It was around this time that we started hearing reports that Allen had made multiple confessions to multiple people. We found those puzzling so we looked into it. What we learned is that during a phone conversation with his wife that the prison officials were listening in on, he told his wife several times that “they have incriminating evidence against me.” So you see, we don’t think he ever confessed at all! And incriminating evidence could be just about anything such as that he was at the bridge at the time of the murders.

In the Franks document, allusions are made to possible confessions Allen had made. The Franks document suggested that the prison officials, specifically two Odinist guards assigned to guard him, had been threatening to kill his wife and his family unless he confessed. After he went psychotic, he kept asking the defense team,

Is my wife all right? Is my family all right?

Why on Earth would he be worried about the well-being of his family unless they were being threatened, probably by these Odinist guards?

In another conversation with his attorneys, Allen said,

The Odinist guards have been threatening me in here.

Two Odinist guards were selected to watch over him, so it stands to reason that this is who he was referring to. He said this at a time when he had no idea that his defense team suspected Odinist involvement in the case.

On another occasion he pleaded with the Odinist guards:

Please don’t shock me! Please don’t shock me! Please don’t shock me!

Apparently they had been shocking him with stun guns and had probably done so multiple times.

In addition, the Odinists videotaped his sessions with his attorneys that are supposed to be completely private. Allen’s team said that in their 30 years of law practice, this was the first time they had ever been videotaped talking to a client in a correctional facility. So it appears that he was frightened that they could figure out what he was saying to his lawyers, and hence he may not have told his lawyers some important things that were on his mind, like that perhaps these Odinists were threatening his wife and family.

Richard’s Dubious and Uncorroborated “Confessions” Are Junk because They Only Occurred after He Went Psychotic

After he went psychotic, his physical condition also deteriorated dramatically. One aspect of his psychotic behavior was wetting down pieces of paper with water and then eating them! It seems pretty clear that as he’s only confessed after going psychotic due to torture and abuse, these confessions are not valid. Furthermore, all he did was confess that he committed the murders. We have had quite a few crazies and druggies make and imply such things over the years.

Shall we ask Richard Allen exactly how he committed these crimes? If his tale doesn’t match up with what happened, the confession is junk. Further it should contain information that only the killer would know. A simple confession is pretty worthless and people make false confessions all the time.

On the other hand, EF made a confession where he revealed something that only the killer would know, that sticks fashioned into horns were placed over the head of victim Abby. In order to have this information, he either had to have participated in the crime as he has confessed or he knew people who did it and they told him what they did. The former explanation seems more likely.

Good Summary of the Issues Revealed by the Franks Document

The following is a comment from one of our finest sleuths.

This comment discusses much of what is in the Franks motion and sums up my position on this case at the moment very well.

Warning: disturbing crime description below!

Some Comments about the Statement below

To clear up a couple of things below, according to the pregnancy murder theory (see above), the pregnant girl was disemboweled with a gut knife. The rumor also states that the contents of her abdominal cavity were removed. We don’t know what happened to them afterwards, whether they were piled next to her, placed and found somewhere else nearby or removed from the scene altogether. The first is most likely. A scalpel was also used in this crime. We know this because at one time, we had access to a crime scene photo of a scalpel on the ground.

The only reason that makes sense to disembowel this girl would be to remove the girl’s uterus. Presumably the scalpel would have been used to cut out the uterus. Therefore, there would have been no way to determine who the father of the fetus the girl may have been carrying was. On the other hand, we do not yet have any evidence that the girl’s uterus was removed, and if so, she would have been found pregnant by blood test at the autopsy.

However, according to this theory, police felt sure that they knew the identity of the 20 year old man who may have impregnated her, but they said he was not a suspect. Perhaps he was part of a supposed plot to scare a girl into getting an abortion, which was probably perfectly legal (What is the crime called, police staters, Criminal Scaring of a Girl?), but he had no involvement in the homicides. Presumably, a determination of pregnancy was made by doing a blood test.

And yes, this aspect of the crime does seem very cult-like and sacrificial. It reminds me of Jack the Ripper! Let’s call it The Womb Raider Theory.

The discussion of the Ford or Mercury Comet appears to be pertain to a possible suspect vehicle seen by a female witness backed in to the CPS building at 2:15 PM. She stated that it looked like an old 1965 Ford or Mercury Comet that her father had owned when she was a girl. However, it may only have resembled such a car, and that may not be the exact year and model. We suspect that this female witness did not know cars very well.

The Member Statement Itself

One thing that jumps out at me after reading the document is who were they protecting? They had eyewitness testimony, erstwhile confessions backed by polygraph tests, a solid artist rendering of a suspicious person in a suspicious place at a relevant time, and a description of an unusual car.

Carter begged people to report any unusual activity or life changes noticed in friends and family members, but they had a confession by EF to his sister that he was at the crime scene that mentioned Abby by name and described doing something that shows in the crime scene description was done, but it wasn’t followed up on.

The same EF tried to give a different sister a blue jacket the day after the murders and told her he now had a brother and was member of a gang, not followed up on.

We have a car in Rushville that has blood on it that was driven by a friend of BH and PW, not followed up on.

The alibis of the Rushville crowd are all crap, not followed up on.

We have BH’s ex telling the police that BH warned her about PW and told her they had had a falling out over a ritual of some sort gone bad, not followed up on.

We have all the FB posts by BH that are weird at best and at the worst point to his involvement in cultish activities, not followed up on.

We have a crime scene that was described as staged, not followed up on.

We have an FBI BAU report pointing to a possible Odinist cultish connection to the crime scene and case, not followed up on.

But we do have time to take a man known to the community as a nice guy, who had no criminal record, for whom they have no DNA, electronic, or forensic evidence tying him to the murders and who told them he was at the park, but left around 1:30, almost an hour before the abduction and just about the time the girls were arriving at the park, and frame him.

They then used a blatantly falsified PCA to obtain a search warrant for his house and subsequently used the fruit from that poisoned tree to arrest him. All 22 days before an election in which the lead investigator on the case was running for sheriff.

We have the original statement by the FBI that the site looked staged and there was blood everywhere. In the document it says the crime scene was staged, but that Abby had no blood on her at all. Which is it, a slaughterhouse or an operating room?

If Libby was pregnant, where is the fetus? Shouldn’t it have been a good source of DNA of the father who may have had a connection to all this? Would missing, i.e., collected blood and a missing fetus indicate some sort of ritual killing?

Isn’t the slitting of a victim’s throat kind of standard in ritualistic sacrifices? If I remember my Biblical teachings correctly, weren’t priests taught how to properly slit the throats of the sacrificial lambs? Isn’t that one of the reasons it is the method of choice among the best Islamic terrorists for dispatching their victims on TV?

If even half the stuff in this document is true, and I’m guessing it’s more than half, then the investigative team was either incompetent or corrupt. This case could have been solved five years ago. Has anyone asked Carter to comment on any of this? Was he aware of this information or is it all news to him too?

Again, why were so many leads and tips dismissed, overlooked, or determined to be unimportant? We were asked for 6 years to keep the tips coming, and now we find out volumes of tips were never taken seriously.

How hard could it have been 6 years ago for LE to do a database search of the Department of Motor Vehicles to look for legally registered and licensed 1965 Ford or Mercury ‘any color but black’ Comets in the state, especially the area around Delphi and Lafayette? I’m guessing there are not a bunch.

And finally, based on his falsifying of the testimony of Sarah Carbaugh alone, TL should be fired, banned from ever working in law enforcement again, and possibly put on trial for perjury. The Carroll County LE and the ISP owe the families and the citizens of the area a huge apology for how this case has been mishandled.

More Reasons Why Richard Allen Cannot Be Guilty of the Delphi Murders

More problems with the case:

Allen’s Height and Weight Do Not Match the Bridge Guy Suspect at Al, Hence Allen Cannot Be the Killer

I’ve already been over the most obvious problem with the case, that Richard Allen’s height and weight are no match for the man on the bridge.

The Bridge Man’s height was measured using sophisticated instruments by the FBI. They came up with 5’8-5’9. If you look at him, he appears to be about that height. In addition, a couple of re-enactments by sleuths were done on the bridge and uploaded to Youtube using similar instruments. They also ended up with a height of 5’8-5’9. Whatever his height the man on the bridge cannot possibly be 5’4. That’s just ridiculous. Look at him? Is he 5’4? Give it up.

In addition, the FBI estimated the Bridge Guy’s weight at 170-180. This is also Richard Allen’s weight, but he is 4.5 inches shorter. The FBI figures give a man with a BMI of 26.5, typical for a middle-aged man with a paunch, which is exactly what BG appears to be. The weight also fits very well with our view of the man on the bridge.

Allen has a BMI of 31.5. He is obese. Quickly, is BG obese? Give it up! Of course not! In a word, Allen is shot and fat. BG is neither.

Keep in mind that the entire prosecution case rests on their insistence not that Allen kidnapped or murdered the girls but that he is in fact the man on the bridge. If it can be proven that Allen cannot be the man on the bridge, the case is over and Allen walks.

Allen’s DNA Is No Match for the Killer’s DNA Found at the Scene, Therefore There Is No DNA Evidence Linking Allen to the Crime and It’s Unlikely That He Murdered the Girls

A partial DNA sample was recovered from the body of a victim. It is thought to be one of the killers’ DNA. It has only nine markers and it is called “rule in or rule-out” DNA. This means that it either rules a suspect in or out but cannot prove that he left the DNA. 435,000 men in the US have these nine markers in their DNA. Richard Allen’s DNA was no match for the suspect DNA from the crime scene! I would think that that would blow up the prosecution’s whole case right there.

Allen’s Timeline Is Way off from the Delphi Killers’ Timeline, Hence Allen Cannot Possibly Be the Killer

Allen was interviewed about the crime soon before he was arrested. He was not told he was a suspect and was instead treated as a witness. It is obvious looking at the video that this is a man who is anxiously, eagerly, and helpfully trying to help police solve a crime. It does not at all resemble a guilty man trying to exonerate himself.

In this interview, he states that he left the scene at 1:30. An earlier interviewer said Allen supposedly stated he was there between 1:30 and 3:30 (which could easily mean that he was leaving at 1:30), but the interviewer did not make an audio recording of the interview.

New Information: Allen Parked at the Old Farm Bureau Building, Not at the Old Child Protective Services Building!

In his latest interview, Allen said he parked at the “Farmer’s Insurance” building. The police said there has never been a Farmer’s Insurance building there, so he must be referring to the Child Protective Services building. But this is an argument made in very bad faith and seems like an attempt to frame him or fashion his statements to fit where they want them to fit.

First of all, hardly anyone knows this, but there are actually two separate buildings there, both abandoned. One is the old Farm Bureau building and the other is the old Child Protective Services building. The FB building is ~1/2 mile south-southwest of the CPS building along Road 25. Freedom Bridge is to the west-northwest of this building. I had had heard both names used, and people seemed to always say that the two names referred to the same building.

But that’s not so. It’s so obvious that Allen meant the Farm Bureau building when he said the Farmer’s Insurance building. That’s as clear as air. The implications are striking. Allen’s vehicle was never parked at the CPS building for even one second! All descriptions of the suspect vehicle say it was parked at the CPS building, more recently, backed in at the CPS building. If Allen was parked half a mile away at a different building, his vehicle can’t possibly be associated with this crime.

The 1965 Comet suspect vehicle parked at the CPS building at 2:15 PM newly described by a witness looks nothing like Allen’s car, and Allen’s car wasn’t even parked there anyway.

I do not understand why my team kept referring to Allen as parking at the CPS building when it seems obvious that he parked at the Farm Bureau building. That’s an omission on their part.

Ballistics Science Itself Is Junk Science, and Ballistics Ejection Analysis Is Much Worse Than That

The ballistics evidence is junk science like fiber evidence which has since been thrown out. It appears to have a much worse record than even lie detector tests. I have read reviews of studies of ballistics evidence. Once you have handed out the bullets and guns three or four times, sometimes the same bullet or gun to the same examiner, your results start to hover only a bit above chance!

Different examiners disagree on a finding matching a bullet to a gun. The same examiner, incredibly enough, one time says the bullet and gun is a match, then later, given the same bullet and gun, says there is no match! Now keep in mind that this was all done with the much more reliable ballistics evidence via a fired weapon, which leaves a fair amount of damage to the bullet.

However, what they found at the scene the very next day was a bullet that had merely been chambered through a gun and ejected. This leaves much fewer markings on the bullet and the science is surely even worse than for fired bullets.

Bottom line, bullet ejection analysis is a form of junk science if there ever was one. It isn’t even worth a hill of beans. It should not be admitted as evidence, and all prior convictions based merely on ballistics “science” ought to be vacated, and the convicted should be either released to freedom or retrial.

The Killer Deliberately Discharged a Bullet at the Scene, Left It between the Two Bodies,  and Partly Buried It in the Ground as Some Bizarre Calling Card

The only logical explanation for the partly buried discharged bullet at the scene is that the killer deliberately discharged the round at the site, probably positioned it between the two bodies, and almost certainly partly buried it in the ground.

There doesn’t seem to be any information why Allen would do such a crazy thing, and the only logical explanation is that the bullet carefully planted at the scene by the killer as a calling card in yet another example of a possible cult connection or symbolistic and clue-rich aspect of the murders.

Allen Has No Known Odinist Connection and Knows Almost Nothing about Them, Hence He Cannot Be the Killer

Keep in mind that Allen has zero involvement in Odinism, and I don’t even think he knows much about it. As the crime has an obvious Odinist authorship per the FBI’s Behavioral Analysis Unit, only Odinists could have committed the crime, and Allen is once again ruled out.

Allen’s Friends and Family Have Doggedly Stood by Him the Whole Time after His Arrest

His friends and family have stood by him this whole time. When someone seems clearly guilty, their friends and family quickly vanish. Look how fast the recently arrested Long Island Serial Killer’s wife took off.

Richard Allen Does Not Have the Personality Necessary to Commit Such a Crime

Richard Allen is not a psychopath, and he’s not even mean (almost all such killers at least have mean temperaments). Instead he’s described as a nice guy. I’ve never heard a person who committed serial murder or other gruesome homicides described that way. He simply does not have the personality to do a crime like this. He’s probably not even capable of fantasizing about it, and trust me, millions of men in the US alone are capable of and do just that.

Almost everyone capable of committing a crime like this would have to be a psychopath or at the very least and would have an elevated score on the Hare’s famous PCL (Psychopathy Check List) test where >20 = psychopath or they would have an elevated score on the test within the normal range, the latter being much less likely. One can easily have an elevated PCL score of 10-19, considerably psychopathic, while still being completely within the normal range. Even a PCL score of 6-10 is considered elevated above the majority of people, who usually score 0-5.

The Typical Stable Person Who Commits a Crime Like This Never Decompensates after Incarceration

Psychopaths, serial killers, and monsters who commit gruesome crimes like this typically don’t fall apart in jail or prison. Look how easily the LISK has adjusted to life behind bars. They just slip right in. It’s as if on some level they realize that this is where they belong or that this was an unavoidable or highly likely termination point or destiny for their life’s inevitable trajectory.

The only person who falls apart when incarcerated is someone who’s already crazy or very unstable. Richard Allen is by all accounts a relatively stable person with an average adjustment to life who lacks any obvious or handicapping mental disorders, nor does he have such a history.

In addition to unstable folks decompensating under the stress of incarceration, an innocent man such as Allen accused of a horrendous and gruesome crime may well fall apart due to the stress of the accusation, the difficulty of incarceration (especially extended solitary), and the terror of being bullied, shocked, and tortured by menacing prison staff. The fact that Allen’s previously stable self fell apart so badly and quickly speaks strongly in favor of his innocence.

Palestinian Deliberate Targeting of Civilians as “Settlers” Turns off Most Westerners

Dúnedain: I think David Duke is off his rocker endorsing a militant Black Nationalist for Congress. In his video, Duke even says that this guy supports affirmative action and once said that he would punch a White person for the benefit of his own mental health. But all that matters to David Duke is that he’s anti-Zionist. Pathetic.

Also, I think these WN’s are wasting their time supporting the Palestinians when the Palestinians don’t give a shit about what’s happening to Western countries. I’m against sending foreign aid to Israel (and every other country for that matter). If we cut ties with Israel, I really couldn’t care less what goes on over there. That whole region is a mess.

Polar Bear: I agree, just cut them all off. I see the Palestinians as the “True Blood Jews.” I’ve supported them hard in the past, but sadly they’re just acting too much like a bunch of “mud people” for me to continue to support them. I now say cut off all support and let the Blood and Spirit Jews sort it out themselves. Though all the US would do is support Israel anyway.

Who are the True Blood Jews? Who are the Blood and Spirit Jews? Both of them? Or is it one versus the other?

This sickening terrorism and deliberate targeting of civilians as they are all “settlers” is what you refer to as “mud people behavior?” Ok, there’s something to that.

On the other hand, Ukraine is deliberately trying to kill Russian and pro-Russian civilians by shelling them. The Serbs did it in Yugoslavia via shelling. The US did it in Germany, Japan, Korea by bombing and in part in Vietnam. All US sponsored counterinsurgencies involving killing the civilian supporters of the rebels.

Leftwing guerrillas never target civilians as a rule.

The Kurdish PKK mostly refuse to target Turks per se, but one of their breakaway factions targets Turks as targets.The Chechen rebels systematically massacred ethnic Russian Christians in Chechnya. Those are two examples of White tribal wars. Saudi Arabia has been massacring pro-Houthi civilians, though more as an occasional thing than as a matter of course. Also ISIS, Al Qaeda, etc. have been deliberately targeting civilians who support the state or are Shia or non-Muslims.

There’s a lot of massacring of civilians going on in the wars in Africa in Zaire, the Central African Republic, the Sahel, Nigeria, Sudan, and Ethiopia, which boil down to Black tribal wars. It’s all just one tribal, ethnic, or religious group massacring another.

So the Palestinians are treating this like a tribal war, and the Jews are simply the enemy tribe.

I agree though that Palestinians are acting pretty “niggerish” in that war. I don’t think a lot of Americans dig deliberately killing Israeli Jewish civilians just because they’re “settlers.” I showed a video of a Palestinian run-over and knife attack to my brother recently, and he was appalled at what the Palestinian was doing:

“You mean that’s what they do? Just aim their cars and a bunch of civilians by the side of the road?”

He shook his head and took the side of the Jews right away. The attacker then got out of his car and tried to attack some people with a knife, which also appalled my brother. Then he ran across the street where he was shot by some armed Jew. While he was lying wounded on the ground, the Jew walked up to him and finished him off with a bullet, which was pretty low. However, my brother supported that.

New Delphi Murders Post Coming Shortly

A new Delphi Murders post, the first in nearly a year, will be coming shortly. We will be dealing with everything that was released in the latest Franks request issued by the defense team in addition to some other matters from our own research.

In general, we feel that this new information is an excellent theory and may well point to the authors of these murders. I personally feel that Richard Allen is not guilty, although some of my members differ on that. I should also point out by way of disclosure that I have been working with Richard Allen’s defense team for a number of months now.

Israel Assassinated Yasser Arafat

Note: This is an old article that I am republishing, as I had to reformat it. A lot of the stuff that got transferred from WordPress lost a lot of its formatting, especially spaces between paragraphs. I also rewrote the piece. My old writing on Jews was rather, ummm…uhhhh…anti-Semitic? I’m trying to get away from that sort of hardcore antisemitism. It just feels ugly. It was actually embarrassing rereading it.

I’ve still retained watercooler antisemitism, but that’s not even antisemitism. In fact, when I’ve brought up watercooler stuff to people I knew who were careful about how they talked about Jews, Germans for instance, it sparked an immediate flash of recognition and an attitude that this was just the common everyday knowledge of what these people were like psychologically. It was as if I were simply stating obvious facts that anyone knows.

When I go beyond that, I try to be very careful about how I write about Jews and make sure my critiques are as factual as possible which inevitably ends up toning them down quite a bit.

It was written under an anti-Israel rubric, but face it, a lot of anti-Israel rhetoric is antisemitic. Let’s get real here. Those pricks who are acting so horrible over there are indeed Jewish people. Perhaps in a sense antisemitism is a logical consequence of Jewish behavior in Israel. At the very least an awful lot of Jews are acting pretty awful over there. Be that as it may, I don’t wish to attack Jews on an antisemitic basis over Israel’s behavior. I hate too many people as it is. I need to hate fewer people, not more people.

On the other hand though, what is the average Jew in the Diaspora doing to Palestinians besides having a bad attitude about them? Is Honest Guy hurting Palestinians, even with his mind? I doubt it. But antisemitism would target him too.

I guess the moral to the story is that when a lot of the people in your group start acting like complete pricks, don’t be surprised if people start disliking your group. Even if you are not in on it, people will assume you are because you are one of them. Perhaps the best thing a Diaspora Jew could do in this case would be to distance himself from Israelis:

Look, I don’t support what my people are doing over there at all, ok? Why do you think I’m here in the Diaspora? You think I want to move there and have that hanging over my conscience? Here in the Diaspora I can avoid complicity and sleep well at night to boot.

I don’t think Diaspora Jews have to support Palestinians or Arabs either. Obviously Palestinian behavior leaves much to be desired, and a lot of it is very hard to support. Palestinian resistance against Israel has been nothing but sheer terrorism from Day One, and most of the most important figures in the Palestinian movement have openly advocated terrorism against Israeli civilians.

Indeed the whole war has been against Israeli civilians because they are classed as “settlers” and therefore not innocent civilians.

Note that it comes with 135 old comments, a lot of which are very interesting! This blog used to have a wild commenting section with a lot of crazy but very smart regulars. I learned quite a bit just rereading the comments section here. The comments need to be reformatted too. Perhaps I will have to do that too.

Israel assassinated Yasser Arafat via poisoning him with polonium in 2004.

Israel had a right to assassinate Arafat the same as the Palestinians had a right to assassinate Israeli leaders like Rehavam Ze’evi (shot down by the PFLP in 2001). Fair is fair in war after all. As usual, those who killed the outrageously nicknamed “Gandhi” are in Israeli prisons for life, while those who killed Arafat are walking free or dead of natural causes. The Israelis always win and always get their way, every time.

This assassination was apparently the hand of Ariel Sharon and the head of the Mossad, Meir Dagan. Ariel Sharon asked for permission from George Bush to kill Arafat. Bush granted it to him. So it looks like instead of the Israel killing Arafat on its own, it was in some way a sort of dual killing.

At the time, Ghada Karmi, a PFLP-allied Palestinian activist and physician, said that Arafat had been poisoned via his cook, who was hired by the Mossad. There were all sorts of rumors that he died of AIDS. His Palestinian enemies outrageously refused to do an autopsy, and his crooked widow, Suha, who along with Arafat stole many millions of dollars from the Palestinian people, went along. At the time, I opined on my site that Arafat had been assassinated via poison by Israel.

Only Israel had the motive and means to assassinate Arafat, so they did it. Israel has a huge nuclear weapon and up to 200-400 nuclear weapons, which it has never acknowledged. The US media also refuses to acknowledge this nuclear stockpile.

Traces of polonium up to 10X the normal were found in Arafat’s personal effects, strongly hinting at poisoning. I believe that the Palestinians finally had his body exhumed and it had elevated levels of plutonium in it.

Arafat deteriorated markedly and rapidly over one month with a bizarre and unexplained illness that doctors were never able to diagnose, though some French doctors thought he may have been poisoned. His deterioration was so rapid and strange that people felt it had to be either AIDS or poisoning.

Excellent work via an 9-month investigation by Al Jazeera to scoop the story.

Alt Left: Yochanan Gordon, "When Genocide is Permissible"

Note this is an old article that I am republishing as I had to reformat it. A lot of the stuff that got transferred from WordPress lost a lot of its formatting, especially spaces between paragraphs.

This article caused quite a stir when it was published one of the Times of Israel‘s blogs. But is was so controversial that the Times of Israel took down the blog post and appears to have suspended the author. The author’s father is the publisher of the Five Towns Jewish Times in Nassau, New York, serving the large Orthodox Jewish community in that part of New York. The article first appeared in that publication. Yochanan’s grandfather was a somewhat famous Jewish author who wrote in Yiddish.

People are screaming and yelling about it a lot, but if you go to Israel National News, similar views, not quite as broadly stated, are so normal they are nearly the norm for commenters on that site. Yet even there some have gone overboard calling for germ warfare and chemical warfare to be unleashed on Gaza. One man called for the IDF to release the Ebola Virus on Gaza. However, many of the commenters have protested these posts as going too far.

Nevertheless, let us be fair, Muslims the world over are calling for the genocide of the Jews in one way or another just about every week. “Kill the Jews! Kill all of the Jews, every one of them!” and other comments along those lines are pretty regular fare with preachers in Saudi Arabia, Germany, the UK, Gaza, and Egypt. These preachers are generally from the Salafi-jihadist or Global Jihad/Al Qaeda school of radical Islam.

Nevertheless, statements by Palestinians have not been very heartening either. Yasser Arafat said that once the Arabs get Palestine back, they would slowly terrorize the Jews into leaving. Although I think he said psychological terrorism, we know what he meant. George Habash of the PFLP said a long time ago that there were no limits when it came to killing Jews in order to win back Palestine. Note that Jews in general were targeted although the fight was against Jewish nationalists in Israel.

Sheik Yassin, a wicked little beady-eyed troll of a man, was interviewed by Atlantic Magazine‘s Jeffrey Goldberg. Yassin allowed that all Jews who could prove that they were in Palestine before 1916 (the Balfour Declaration) would be considered residents and not settlers and could stay on the land.

The rest would be considered invaders. How to deal with them? “We will slowly kill them until they leave,” he allowed. Dr. Rantissi, pediatrician and leader of Hamas at the same time that Yassin was spiritual leader, was a famous Holocaust Denier and fulminated quite a bit about the Jews. He was also apparently a believer in the Protocols of the Elders of Zion.

The idiotic Hamas Charter also references that stupid book along with a lot of other traditional anti-Semitic tropes. In addition, it references the famous Koranic phrase that talks about how in the last days, the Muslims will kill off all the Jews. Some of the Jews will hide behind trees, and Allah will tell the Muslims, “There, behind that tree, there’s a Jew!” Then the Muslims will follow directions and go find and kill the Jew. Nice book, that Quran.

In closing, while I believe this article is lamentable, the Muslims say stuff like this about the Jews all the time, as in every week.

When Genocide is Permissible

by Yochanan Gordon

Judging by the numbers of casualties on both sides in this almost one-month old war, one would be led to the conclusion that Israel has resorted to disproportionate means in fighting a far less-capable enemy. That is as far as what meets the eye. But it’s now obvious that the US and the UN are completely out of touch with the nature of this foe and are therefore not qualified to dictate or enforce the rules of this war because when it comes to terror, there is much more than meets the eye.

I wasn’t aware of this but it seems that the nature of warfare has undergone a major shift over the years. Where wars were usually waged to defeat the opposing side, today it seems – and judging by the number of foul calls, it would indicate – that today’s wars are fought to a draw. I mean, whoever heard of a timeout in war?

An NBA basketball game allows six timeouts for each team during the course of a game, but last I checked this is a war! We are at war with an enemy whose charter calls for the annihilation of our people. Nothing, then, can be considered disproportionate when we are fighting for our very right to live.

The sad reality is that Israel gets it, but its hands are being tied by world leaders who over the past six years have insisted they are such good friends with the Jewish state that they know more regarding its interests than even Israel does. But there’s going to have to come a time where Israel feels threatened enough to where it has no other choice but to defy international warnings – because this is life or death.

Most of the reports coming from Gazan officials and leaders since the start of this operation have been either largely exaggerated or patently false. The truth is, it’s not their fault, falsehood and deceit is part of the very fabric of who they are and that will never change. Still however, despite their propensity to lie, when your enemy tells you that they are bent on your destruction, you believe them. Similarly, when Khaled Meshal declares that no physical damage to Gaza will dampen their morale or weaken their resolve – they have to be believed.

Our sage Gedalia the son of Achikam was given intelligence that Yishmael Ben Nesanyah was plotting to kill him. However, in his piety or rather naiveté, Gedalia dismissed the report as a random act of gossip and paid no attention to it.

To this day, the day following Rosh Hashana is commemorated as a fast day in the memory of Gedalia who was killed in cold blood on the second day of Rosh Hashana during the meal. They say the definition of insanity is repeating the same mistakes over and over. History is there to teach us lessons, and the lesson here is that when your enemy swears to destroy you – you take him seriously.

Hamas has stated forthrightly that it idealizes death as much as Israel celebrates life. What other way then is there to deal with an enemy of this nature other than obliterate them completely?

News anchors such as those from CNN, BBC and Al-Jazeera have not missed an opportunity to point out the majority of innocent civilians who have lost their lives as a result of this war. But anyone who lives with rocket launchers installed or terror tunnels burrowed in or around the vicinity of their home cannot be considered an innocent civilian.

If you’ll counter that Hamas has been seen abusing civilians who have attempted to leave their homes in response to Israeli warnings to leave – well then, you’re beginning to come to terms with the nature of this enemy which should automatically cause the rules of standard warfare to be suspended.

Everyone agrees that Israel has the right to defend itself as well as the right to exercise that right. Secretary General Ban Ki Moon has declared it, and Obama and Kerry have clearly stated that no one could be expected to sit idle as thousands of rockets rain down on the heads of its citizens placing them in clear and present danger. It seems then that the only point of contention is regarding the measure of punishment meted out in this situation.

I will conclude with a question for all the humanitarians out there. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu clearly stated at the outset of this incursion that his objective is to restore a sustainable quiet for the citizens of Israel. We have already established that it is the responsibility of every government to ensure the safety and security of its people. If political leaders and military experts determine that the only way to achieve its goal of sustaining quiet is through genocide, is it then permissible to achieve those responsible goals?

Capitalism Doesn’t Even Follow Its Own Fake Laws!

Went to buy COVID tests the other day. $10/each!

The government was giving them away for free for a while, but then they decided to do the right thing and turn it over to the private sector so they could ream us at the drug store. Getting reamed by a capitalist slug is so much better than getting it free from the evil government, right, fanboys?

I’m told that they used to be cheaper, but then demand went down. As that results in lower sales and profits, they decided to jack up prices to make up for it. Look. This is not supply and demand. This is not free market capitalism. The joke about the pathetic and psychopathic joke that is capitalism is that it doesn’t even follow it’s own rules. Capitalism has one rule and one rule only: maximize profits at all costs.

This is how it’s supposed to work, fanboys. Demand goes down and prices start going down. You end up in price wars. To make up for lower demand, everyone is trying to go by volume, and a lot of people are probably just dumping. Getting any money at all for a product is better than getting zero dollars.

Demand goes up and prices go up because supply is short. People take advantage of the demand by jacking up prices.

The fake “law” of supply and demand isn’t even a law! It’s just more bullshit like so many things in economics, a dismal science if there ever was one.


I guess for the first time. I’m vacced and double-boosted, so I’m as immunized as it gets. My brother caught COVID at the Mission where he stays at night (natch), and I guess he gave it to me. He went to the mission with a mask on, and they asked him why he had a mask, gave him a COVID test, and he tested positive. He was dead sick. He called me from the mission and told me to come pick him up.

That day he had come in to my place sick as a dog. He doesn’t have a key so he rings to get in every morning or if I’m up early, I unlock the door.

He could barely make it home walking from the Mission, and he even called me to come pick him up, but I thought it was the doorbell call, so all I did was unlock the door.  The next day I saw him sitting in his chair, and I told him he looked like he was dead. Ever seen people who are very old and sick or just sick and their very face looks like death?

I got sick right around that day with a deep cough of the sort I haven’t had in ages. My brother suggested I go buy some COVID tests. $10 each!

The first day was just a deep cough, albeit a rather nasty one. The next day was splitting headaches, malaise, no appetite or energy, and chills and flushes (you’re too hot, then you’re too cold). The headaches and misery were so awful that I couldn’t even sleep. I just lay in bed and tried to meditate, which is actually not a bad way to spend one’s time. Now I’m congested, coughing up phlegm, and I have a sore throat. If I take Ibuprofen, I can sleep like a rock.

I must say, this is a nasty illness. I would not say it’s the worst cold or flu I’ve ever had, but it definitely has a different quality about it, a rather bizarre quality that I can’t quite put a finger on.

I went 3 1/2 years tempting fate by avoiding this illness, so it stands to reason that there would come a day when my card would turn up.

C’est la vie!

Any of you had this crap illness yet?

“Always Opposing Past Wars But Never The Present One”

Always Opposing Past Wars but Never the Present One

by Caitlin Johnstone

A lot of empire sycophancy hides behind the fact that it’s always permissible to retrospectively oppose US wars that already happened, but not the current one. It’s permitted now to say the destruction of Vietnam and Iraq and Libya were mistakes, for example, but if you said it at the time people would treat you like a monster and call you all kinds of names.

And it’s important to understand that this is still happening today. One day it will be permissible to say in mainstream circles that it was wrong for the US empire to deliberately provoke the war in Ukraine and keep it going as long as possible to bleed Russia, but it’s taboo to say that now, because the empire hasn’t yet accomplished all its goals in Ukraine.

They always act like the most recent interventionist disaster was the final one. They always act like the hawks may have been wrong all those other times but they’re not wrong now. And then when they’ve killed everyone they wanted to kill and grabbed everything they wanted to grab and there’s no possibility of losing anything they gained, it will suddenly become permissible to make the present disaster the final one while they assure us the next one is completely righteous.

By far the most dangerous disinformation published on online platforms is the mainstream war propaganda that’s paved the way to mountains of human corpses throughout the global south, and now in Ukraine. But rather than being censored, it’s being loudly algorithmically amplified.

US empire managers keep saying they need to move more and more war machinery to “challenge” China in the South China Sea, because CHINA is behaving aggressively. Only a complete moron would believe this narrative.

Imagine how shitty and soul-sucking it would feel to have to be a mainstream news pundit. Having to treat presidential races like they’re real things that actually matter. Talking about partisan feuds between Democrats and Republicans like they’re consequential and relevant. Talking about the United States like it’s just a normal country in a world full of similar normal countries, participating in world events just like any other country, passively witnessing terrible things happening in other countries like it didn’t actively cause those terrible things to happen.

Your whole life would be dedicated to co-authoring a fiction  –  but a really boring, vapid, stupid fiction that everyone around you is pretending is real life. But you’d know it’s not real. On some level you’d know. There are only so many years you can closely observe the kayfabe performance of electoral politics where nothing ever changes without noticing that that seems to be a feature not a bug in the system.

There’s only so long you can closely observe geopolitics before you notice that the US and its client states play a role in every major international conflict and notice who benefits from this dynamic. The awareness that you’re giving your life to a lie would creep in and sit in the periphery of your awareness like a terrible memory of something that definitely happened but you don’t want to think about.

And on some level you’d be aware that you don’t have to do this anymore. On some level you’d be aware that you could turn around and start talking about how America’s real government works, about how the empire works, about how power actually moves on the world stage. Real things that actually matter. And you’d be aware on some level of how right this would feel, how freeing it would feel, how expansive it would feel.

But you’d also be aware that it would cost you everything. Your job. Your friends. Your social standing. Your carefully cultivated relationships with all the right kind of people. Your expensive house. Your fancy car. Your spouse. Your kids’ Ivy League educations. The respect of everyone you know.

And you look at the two options, and you weigh them out, and every day you pick the easy way. Every day you choose your own cowardice over truth. Every day you choose fear and fraudulence over courage and authenticity.

And you have to live like that every day of the rest of your life. Imagine how awful that would be. How gross and unfulfilling life would feel, every waking minute of every day, year after year, until you die.

It’s not a fate I would wish on anybody.

You wanna know how fucking stupid Australians are? Australians are so fucking stupid they think the US empire is filling their country up with war machinery because it loves them and wants to protect them from the Chinese, that’s how fucking stupid Australians are.

So much empire apologia today is just people pretending not to understand what the word “provoked” means.

“Oh, so you’re saying the west’s actions JUSTIFY Putin’s invasion?? You’re saying we MADE Russia invade? You’re saying we used Jedi mind control to FORCE Putin to invade??”

Shut up, wanker. You know what provoked means.

The age of western domination has been defined by imperialism, colonialism, exploitation, narrative control, and dogshit mainstream culture manufactured in New York and Hollywood. Hopefully these things can be flushed out of human civilization along with western domination.

French Versus American Opinion about Teen-Adult Sex

Remember when Roman Polanski got arrested for raping a 13 year old girl at Jack Nicholson’s house in 1977? Remember how he fled to France? Remember how the French refused to extradite him?

The French continue to refuse to extradite him because traditionally they don’t care about such things. The AOC was 14 there just recently. A famous case involving a pedophile who had sex with a 14 year old girl who then experienced “regret rape” a decade later caused a change to an AOC of 15. This man had sex with a lot of both girls and boys and he even wrote books about it. I’m not sure how old they were. I think some were young teenagers. Others were children.

Somehow, this guy became a darling of the French intellectual class (he was a good writer – let’s give him that) because of his attitude towards sexual freedom I suppose. The French are notorious champions of such things and they think we are the most insufferable prudes. Well, they’re right about us anyway. Here it is, 400 years on, and we’ve yet to chuck our stifling Puritan heritage about sex. I don’t expect to see any positive changes in this attitude in my lifetime. If anything, it seems to be getting worse year by year.

But the girl suffered delayed regret rape a decade later and decided that what she thought was a blast was really a horror, what she thought was a free-spirited choice was really a creepy older man taking advantage of a poor, innocent young thing. Nobody should give this regret rape bullshit ten seconds of their time because the very idea is absurd, but this time the French were different. Outrage ensued and the AOC got jacked up by a whole year.

By the way, all of these teenage girls suffering “terrible harm” from getting “groomed” or having sex with adult men never would have experienced one lick of harm back in the day. Now we have generations of basket case teenage girls and young women claiming they experienced “child sexual abuse” (child molestation or grooming) in their teen years.

Never mind that that’s not even possible. CSA cannot occur after age 12, nor grooming. What they experienced was attempted seduction by adult men (probably perfectly legal) and in some cases, statutory rape by adult men, which typically causes zero harm in the girl.

And the reactions of these girls towards these fake traumas of their teen years, as usual, tend to be of the “regret rape” variety. Usually they loved it at the time, but then when they thought it over some more later on, like years later, they decided that it was wrong and damaging and ruined their life, and this is where the “damage” began.

Obviously if they were damaged, it would have been the case from the get go. There’s no such thing as regret rape. Things either effect you or they don’t. Events are not time bombs. They don’t lie dormant forever with a shrug of the shoulder and then suddenly explode later on when you change your mind about them.

Any girl or woman getting harmed via regret rape isn’t experiencing real harm. Basically the harm they are experiencing instead is a form of self-harming. They created the harm in their own minds and imposed it on themselves and they can decide to lift anytime they want to also just the same.

If that is what is happening to you, then you are simply self-harming. And I believe that these millions of damaged women and girls ought there experiencing all this damage from things that never used to be harmful are doing just that – they are self-harming.

This low AOC in France of 15 apparently causes absolutely zero problems. The hysterics and sex fascists would have you think that legions of men would be hanging out outside every high school in France just to take advantage of those poor things, right? It doesn’t happen because most of those girls will tell them to get lost! 15 year old French girls have no problems whatsoever telling horny older men to get lost.

And I’m quite proud of them for doing that. Of course if they want to go with the man, you’re free to do so, but it’s not something you hear about a whole lot. Lowering AOC’s conjures up the boogeymen in society’s mind of legions of adult men, slavering like wolves, descending on flocks poor, innocent, sheep-like girls. Except that usually doesn’t even happen.

In a recent discussion on Reddit about a 15 year old girl having sex with a 25 year old man, probably 70-80% of the French people on there, men and women, said they could care less about it. It wasn’t like they thought it was the greatest thing since radial tires. It was more like, “Why the Hell would anyone care about something like that?” All of the comments taking this position were getting massive upvotes, and the American sex fascists were getting downvoted to Hell.

Of course every American on there was horrified and said the man in this case was a “pedophile” and the girl in this case was experiencing “child sexual abuse.” Obviously, neither of those statements are true, but mobs whipped up like the wind don’t usually let a few pesky facts get in the way of their mental riots.

The French laughed at this attitude and called the Americans idiots. The Americans called the French pedophiles. A gap as wide as people from two different planets opened up, like a gaping wound in the body politic of Western man.

Just a few things here. I am not advocating that the US lower its AOC to 15, though I would very much like a generous Romeo and Juliet law for 15 year old girls in all states. If a state wants to lower their AOC to 15, I would not oppose it of course, but that’s not going to happen in my lifetime. I don’t even support lowering the AOC in any US state.

I’ve lived in California all this time with an AOC of 18 and no Romeo and Juliet clause (and we will probably never get one here either), and obviously, I can live with it. Of course if some state wants to lower their AOC to 16 or 17, I won’t oppose, but I’m not advocating that. All I have ever been advocating here is a change of mindset from one of mass hysteria and idiotic moral panic to the more sane attitude that I grew up with.

Also, I’m not an advocate of Mr. Polanski. I’m not impressed that he gave that girl Quaaludes and then anally raped her. Not ok, Roman! I would have been happy to have seen him go down on rape, but apparently the girl didn’t want to press charges.

Also we now have some excellent evidence that Polanski raped a 9 or 10 year old girl on a Southern California beach 5-10 years prior to his arrest in 1977. The details are sketchy, but I believe the girl. That’s worse than bad. That’s not even child molestation. That’s out and out child rape.

He definitely should have gone down for that. I doubt the case is prosecutable anymore, but still, that was very bad thing to do. I don’t think he’s a pedophile. He’s been married to grown women all these years and he likes them just fine. Sure, he likes girls and Lolis too, but so do 20-25% of men. He’s not unusual in that respect.

In my opinion, Roman Polanski is a bad person. What could he do to redeem himself? Say he’s sorry?

“Feminism and Child Sex Hysteria”

Long, runs to 18 pages. If you don’t like it, don’t read! Sorry bout that!

Feminism and Child Sex Hysteria

by Frank Adamo

Found this article on Academia. It says some interesting things, but it also takes a line that, well, let’s just say I don’t agree, ok? And I’m with the prohibitionists. This is a bit too much on the “child liberation” side.

But it’s interesting to explore that anyway because it’s important to know the libertine and anti-prohibition arguments in favor of adult-child sex. This mindset was a lot more prevalent back in the 1970’s. I believe you could actually go into Hollywood and buy a child porn magazine from Denmark back then. It might be under the counter, but you could still buy it. Not that I think that was a good idea, but I’m just showing you how people were a lot calmer about this sort of thing back then than they are now.

And by the way, there was no more child molestation then then there is now, and in fact there may have been less. The general attitude about child molestation was that it was rare and did not typically result in severe harm. Whether that’s true or not, that’s definitely not what the mindset we have now.

Note the hysteria about adult men “grooming” teenage girls and having sex with them.

There were just as many (or probably many more) adult men trying to seduce and having sex with teenage minor girls back in the day, but people didn’t make such a big deal about it or think it was so weird. Of course grown men want and try to fuck teenage girls. Duh. Every teenage girl knew that and didn’t particularly care.

I suppose they mostly just blew them off. It was just a fact of life that you accepted, shrugged off, and moved on. Further, a lot of 14=17 year old teenage girls here in California were having sex with men, typically young men aged 18-21, and not one of them was getting damaged by this.

Now we have generations of basket case teenage girls and young women claiming they experienced “grooming” and “child sexual abuse” (child molestation) in their teen years and continuing to suffer from the effects of this fake trauma for years later. Yet none of them would have experienced one lick of harm back in the day.

And the reactions, as usual, tend to be of the “regret rape” variety. Usually they loved it at the time, but then when they thought it over later on, they decided that it was wrong, and this is where the “damage” began. Obviously if they were damaged, it would have been the case from the get go. There’s no such thing as regret rape. Things either effect you or they don’t. Events are not time bombs. They don’t lie dormant forever with a shrug of the shoulder and then suddenly explode later on when you change your mind about them.

If that is what is happening to you, then you are simply self-harming.

Anyway, this paper doesn’t even deal with the issue of teen sex. He’s dealing with the explosive issue of child molestation. And he’s taking a libertine line on that!

there is clearly an anti-feminist element in the mass hysteria that terrorizes little girls against sex.

That’s an important point. But do you see where he’s going with this? This is the libertine line. By hyping up child sexual abuse in little girls, we are terrorizing them about sex. I doubt if that’s true but perhaps we should be more easygoing about it.

The next phase in activism on child sex abuse should be to confront and reverse the hysteria.

We have gone hysterical about this issue. That’s generally what I’ve been writing about all this time. The hysteria. All feminism is behind all of this madness.

Along with the rediscovery of the sexual exploitation of children in the 1970s, there were repeated if not constant references to women’s own feeling of guilt over their early victimization and hence the need to reassure survivors that early abuse was not their fault.

This is actually where almost all of the damage from non-coercive child molestation comes from – guilt and shame on the part of the girl, especially later on when she reflects on it. As you can see, this hysterical attitude is causing most of the damage these females are experiencing. So the feminist approach is failing because it’s based on false theory as usual.

But why is such propensity to feel guilty so prominent, if not because women never let go of the traditional ideal of the innocent (i.e. asexual) girl and woman?

Exactly. So feminists have taken up an extremely backwards, anti-woman, patriarchal, repressive and puritanical agenda. Way to go, ladies! Good job!

Worse, far from liberating women from patriarchy, Whittier notes the grass roots activist movement melded with the traditional state agenda to control citizens, with the result of increased law enforcement, expansion of the prison system, and now even post-sentence confinement or registration of sex offenders, and increased surveillance of suspects and anti-sex indoctrination of children – especially girls.

It’s all been a massive clusterfuck. Are we any better off for all of this? The jails and prisons are full. Anti-sex puritanical hysteria sweeps the land. Society is pervaded with an obvious anti-male agenda. Girls and women are being terrorized into being afraid of boys and men because we are all “abusers,” “rapists,” and “harassers.”

And the numbers of girls and women being damaged and the level of damage they have experienced have done through the roof. Way to go, feminists! Following feminist theory has resulted in a devastated society full of self-harming females getting damaged by harmless things. So obviously the feminist theory doesn’t make sense unless you want to end up with societies full of millions of damaged women. Sometimes I think feminists want this.

Furthermore, this had led to “carceral feminism,” which is the new model, based on the perennial feminist idea of “let’s lock up all the men!”

Have molestation rates gone down? Not at all.

Having teen sex rates gone down? Yes, they have, but who says that’s a good thing? Don’t teenage girl deserve sexual freedom to have sex with other teen minors?

And that Sex Offender Registry? It doesn’t do the slightest thing to lower sex crimes.

The pre-feminist, traditional view of professional psychologists and the broader society was that child sex abuse (CSA) is rare and not usually catastrophic.

This was the traditional view of this sort of thing before the 1970’s. My Mom told me this was the view when she was growing up. In fact, my late aunt actually got molested as a young girl. Everyone hushed it up and my aunt was told to not let it happen again and don’t worry about it. The man was described as an annoying idiot or fool of the sort that girls should avoid in the future. My aunt experienced exactly zero harm from this molestation.

Also, as you can see, before feminism, people actually made sense.

But feminist activists in the 1970s decided it was neither rare nor mild in effect.

Exactly. What was once rare was now everywhere. What was once typically mild was instead always ruinous, and every molested girl was a ruined woman for life. That would be fine if it were true, but was it?

The simplicity and convenience of attributing all your complex problems to a single cause (and a single bad guy) were irresistible.

Exactly. And women love these “one cause to explain whole problems” theories and they also love being victims so they can blame all of their adult life problems on one thing so their problems end up not being their fault.

That viewpoint was also attractive to some individual bigots who wanted to demonize men, since in the beginning amateur theorists thought CSA was exclusively men against girls and hence a sinister conspiracy of males to make females submissive.

Even when feminists discovered that both women and men sexually abuse boys as well as girls, they believed the majority of cases were men against girls and hence good PR for the broader movement against patriarchy.

Well the feminists were correct.

Yes, women molest boys, but a lot of little boys like it! I recall a case where a female teacher had a lot of her little boy students over at her house. She taught 2nd or 3rd grade. She ended up naked on her bed and she invited boy after 7 year old boy into her bedroom to lick her hairy red-haired pussy.

10-20 boys ended up doing it and they all liked it just fine, although I doubt if they got erections because little boys don’t get those. Later on in high school and as adult men, they continued to croon about this wonderful experience.

Now hear me out. I don’t want grown women having sex with little boys. It needs to be illegal. But it doesn’t look like boys get much harmed by this sort of thing, does it? Still, I don’t want to live in a country where it’s ok for women to have sex with little boys or for adults of either sex to have sex with children of either sex.

Little boys also get molested by men, and this can be a lot more harmful.

Child molestation, generally speaking, is men and teenage boys having sex with little girls, usually fathers and uncles and daughters and nieces and brothers and sisters. Women don’t do a lot of molesting of either boys or girls. Feminists were right for once.

Early theorists on CSA repeated the traditional assumption that good little girls are not interested in sex, so men abuse girls to “prepare” and “socialize” them for future submission to unwanted contact.

I disagree with this libertine author that little girls have sex drives because that is one of his consistent positions here. Are they curious about sex? Yes. Are they sexually responsive? Yes. They have no adult sex drive but the clitoris is still responsive and they can definitely have orgasms by clitoral stimulation. In fact, I’ve known some women, including ex girlfriends, who masturbated to orgasm as little girls. One ex started doing it at age five!

But seeing this as a plot by men to socialize girls into becoming women who like basically getting raped is ridiculous. The feminist argument doesn’t make sense.

However, there are definitely some men out there who  advocate the molesting of girls for that very reason. There are all sorts of porn blogs out there pushing this line.

So there had to be some sinister explanation for so many girls not saying “No!” or “I don’t like this,” or at least “Let’s go the amusement park instead.”

Sure, clitoral stimulation feels good whether you’re a girl or a woman, so girls often enjoy getting molested at the time. There is sexual pleasure involved. The typical response of girls to getting molested though, even if there was pleasure, is, “Wow that was really weird!” They don’t know what sex is so they can’t figure out if it’s good or bad or right or wrong. Hence the ambivalent or even positive attitude of most girls towards getting molested.

While traditional psychologists claimed little girls naturally try out their seductive skills on older men, feminists were unwilling to concede any ground on the supposed innocence of girlhood.

I actually don’t think they do. Teenage girls, sure. I’ve had 13 and even 12 year old girls do that. But the they had all obviously experienced the onset of their sex drive. Little girls try to seduce men? Real dubious!

Particularly thorny was that some women confided having experienced arousal and pleasure during their childhood victimization. How could something so wrong feel so right?

Exactly. A woman I dated said, “It’s wrong but it feels good, so it’s confusing.” She had been molested at age eight. She told me she had experienced no damage from it.

Some women felt they needed to defend themselves from the “shameful” suspicion that they wanted to be touched and cooperated in the sexual contact for basic hedonistic motives. So they settled on the excuse: “that was your body, not you.”

Exactly. The girls liked it, it felt good, and now they feel shame and guilt for finding it pleasurable. People who work with women molested as girls are coming around to the idea that it’s ok to feel that you liked it.

But there are still some taking the crazy feminist line that “You didn’t really like it. It was actually destructive. Your body just brainwashed you into thinking you liked it.”

What do you mean, “That was your body, not you?” Are you not your body? Are we going to get Cartesian here? Am I not my body and vice versa? Another feminist argument that makes no sense.

But as Whittier points out, CSA was seen from an “often lesbian-feminist perspective” and responses utilized a “lesbian-feminist approach,” so at least some individuals may have had an additional need to justify their personal rejection of men.

Some of those individual activists were so – shall we say – selective they couldn’t stand to be in the same room with a man. When self-help groups of former victims met and hugged each other, some individuals preferred that only females were present and hugging.

Exactly. And feminism is still swarming with these lesbian feminist lunatics. Lesbians are everywhere in feminism, crawling out of the rafters.

Regardless of gender, the crusaders taught that each child’s body is her own, so she has a right not to be touched if she doesn’t want to.

Of course. But there’s a problem with that theory, as usual.

But it follows that each child also has a right to be touched if she wants to, otherwise what does your body being your own have to do with anything?

This is the problem with the theory right there. Now I don’t agree that little girls should be able to decide that they like getting molested, so we should allow it to go on, but the point still holds. As usual, the feminist theory makes no sense.

The result was surely the same: millions of little girls are being mentally castrated today no less than before they were rescued from the risk of early sex abuse.

Ok, here’s the libertine line. You might want to read it to see what they are getting at. By not allowing little girls to feel sexual pleasure, we end up with a bunch of repressed teenage girls and women with sex hangups. Do I believe it? I doubt if it’s true, and the idea makes me uncomfortable.

The PR value of violence against women was exploited by Women Against Rape, which identified sex with assault, making no distinction between sex play and violent assault.

And feminists conflate sex with rape and aggression to this very day, in fact more than ever in the #metoo era. It’s irrational but feminist arguments never make sense.

WAR declared that no adult should touch a child in an uncomfortable “or” sexual way. Huh? In other words, being touched in a sexual way is unacceptable no matter how comfortable that touch may feel.

Well, I happen to agree with these feminists in WAR on this. I don’t want adults touching kids like that. Period.

Conveniently, the early feminist activists didn’t define sexual “abuse” specifically, let alone define it carefully, so sex abuse was construed so broadly that eventually any and all sexual contact in childhood was demonized or at least any contact between individuals ≥ 5 years apart in age, a magic number similar to the sacred contemporary dictum that every female becomes competent to consent on midnight of her 18th birthday.

They haven’t done this to this very day. No one knows what “child sexual abuse” even is. Apparently now it includes 18 year old adults. And even beyond that, women can get groomed, molested, and sexually abused, which is just nonsense.

Are we talking teenagers or little girls or both?

“Children can’t consent.” First of all, that’s bullshit, and second, teenage girls are not children, and they can absolutely consent to sex.

What about with teen minor peers? Oh, they can consent with them, just not with adults, they say. Wait, I thought children can’t consent. Well, if they can’t consent to sex with adults, then obviously they can’t consent to sex with teen minors either, right? Of course they can’t. You can either consent or not. You can’t consent with some people but not with others. According to feminists, teenage minor girls can’t consent to sex except when they can. As usual the feminist argument makes no sense.

How is it possible that teenage girl minors cannot possibly consent with anyone 18 or over but can somehow consent with other teenage minors? The feminists bend themselves out of shape inventing arguments for this. It’s weird because now they need to make a new argument that teenage girls can consent after all, at least sometimes. But then they still say minors can’t consent. As usual, feminism is incoherent.

And where does this magical “five years apart” idea come from? In other words, if child sex play occurs between minors who are no more than five years apart, then it’s usually not harmful? But I’ve heard of cases of women getting molested as girls by brothers who were 9-10 years older, and the women were fine. One said she missed him and wished he would come back so they could start doing it again.

Rather than specifically acknowledging insensitivity and exploitation as the true crimes against children regardless of the age or gender of those involved, feminists promoted the traditional idea that sexual desire and sexual pleasure are evil in themselves, especially – by coincidence – when fathers and daughters or any other men and girls are involved.

This is exactly what they’ve done. What else is #metoo saying other than this? On the other hand, I want it to be illegal for fathers to have sex with their minor daughters.

When the movement against CSA was embraced by mainstream society in the 1980s, the original focus on incest and gender changed. Instead of reporting rampant incest within families, the mass media focused on more palpable “stranger danger.”

At one point the National Center on Child Abuse and Neglect stopped reporting pesky data on the relationship of abuser to victim. The politically correct mass media advised “parents” on how to protect “children” from “adult abusers,” instead of advising women how to protect girls from men.

See, this is where the movement went nuts.

This is correct though. The feminists were right for once. Child molestation is generally (in 80% of cases) a father or uncle molesting a little girl, often a daughter or niece. Brothers do it too but we don’t typically call that molestation. By focusing on 20% of cases and leaving out 80% of them, we don’t make much sense, do we?

Recently one activist against CSA, Sharon Lamb, had the courage to question the traditional myth that girls are naturally asexual – especially in childhood. She interviewed over 100 girls and women in over 20 states who described their early sexual experiences, mostly in neutral or positive terms. But they clearly experienced desire and arousal, and somehow survived to report it.

That’s actually the typical reaction of girls to getting non-coercively molested – neutral or positive. The attitude continues into adulthood. No one wants to hear this, but it’s true.

Hysteria is a failure to carefully evaluate or even see the many aspects of something and instead focus on only one aspect: usually the worst aspect, what Lenore Skenazy calls worst-first thinking.

A good definition. So why don’t we stop?

Most adults who victimize children (sexually or otherwise) are more accurately classified as psychopaths.

Molestation typically occurs in the family with an adult male relative and a child female relative. And almost all of these molesters are not pedophiles at all. They’re just criminals, often with elevated psychopathy.

More concrete evidence of hysteria was the reception of the Rind Study (8), a meta-analysis of 59 unbiased studies that did not support the dogma that CSA is usually seriously harmful. Previous studies of CSA suffered from selection bias by focusing on women who were already in psychotherapy, but Rind et al. avoided such bias by analyzing studies of a group more representative of the general population: college students.

A famous study, since replicated many times. Problem is that no one believes it’s true. The Wikipedia article on the  study is typical. It says that the study’s conclusions are erroneous and unscientific. That’s not true. It’s the gold standard for studies on child molestation.

Rind’s findings and conclusions were not really radical and should have been welcomed as a relief. But they provoked a firestorm of popular criticism that led to an extraordinary Congressional Vote of Censure of the publisher (the American Psychological Association).

That vote was an abuse of science right there. It just goes to show you that politics often doesn’t make sense or follow logic, instead following irrational emotion and hysteria. Hence most political movements, especially those based on Identity Politics like feminism, are irrational, and most of their arguments don’t make sense.

There is still a strong incentive for feminists NOT to admit that sex play in childhood is normal (both statistically normative and healthy) rather than necessarily harmful. That admission would not only mean feminists have been wrong about denying and demonizing children’s sexual desire and sexual pleasure for over 30 years.

Worse, the belief in a male conspiracy to shame girls and women was clearly paranoid.

Well, sure. Ever notice that people don’t change their minds much about things, especially politics? If I change my mind, that means I was wrong before and now I think I’m right. But people don’t want to admit they were ever wrong. It’s a blow to the ego. So instead they double down and keep the same positions they’ve always had.

Political movements are worse because when they admit they are wrong, it is a blow to the (collective) ego of the movement, and leaders of the movement think it will bring shame to the movement and result in fewer adherents to their cause.

There is also good reason to believe that the traditional taboo against sexual contact outside marriage (in this case in childhood) contributes to some girls becoming sexually dysfunctional.

Now here’s the libertine line I don’t like. But this is how these people think: “We need to allow little girls to experience sexual pleasure because if we don’t, they’ll end up teenage girls or grown women with sexual hangups.” I really doubt that’s the case.

Yes, little girls are denied the opportunity for sexual pleasure. But this is no loss to little girls, and some find sexual pleasure themselves on their own via masturbation, which is harmless.

Deborah Tolman’s study makes sexual problems among young girls painfully clear, although Tolman prefers the euphemism that some girls today have “silent bodies.”

He means teenage girls, ok? Well, ok, hangups are real even at this late date. But do people really have “silent bodies?” Whatever’s going on in that fake silent body, I’m sure the trail leads right back to the mind.

Rather than stating the obvious, that little girls are not at fault for insensitive and exploitative treatment by adults, we should say that young girls who rebel against sex taboos must be praised for their courage in participating in their own liberation from the traditional taboo against expressing female sexual desire and pleasure even outside patriarchal marriage – especially in childhood when the growing brain needs stimulation to develop healthy organ function.

Well, there ya go. There’s the liberationist, anti-prohibitionist argument for adult-child sex. Yuck. Whatever causes female sexual dysfunction, I doubt it’s being caused by the sexual repression of little girls.

Note that this is the pedo argument: little girls are horny as Hell, and they try to seduce us pedos all the time. See above where I concluded that little girls have no actual adult sex drive until the onset of the female sex drive in puberty four months before menarche.

It’s wrong for anybody to use coercion or threats or otherwise manipulate children to cooperate in sex. We need to separate “sex” from the crimes of deception, insensitivity, and exploitation.

And…there it is. The classic pro-pedo argument. Adult-child sex is ok as long as there is no coercion, deception, manipulation, insensitivity, exploitation, or threat involved. Oh, yuck. I don’t care if the girl likes it. So what?

Now, I suppose you are wondering if the author a pedophile? I don’t think so. For instance he noted that true pedophiles are rare. First of all, they’re not, and second of all, not pedophile is going to tell you that his species is rare. I don’t think he’s a child molester either. He doesn’t seem wrapped up in it enough, he’s a known name, and he has a good job teaching English.

Instead he’s just one of those intellectual total freedom advocates or libertines. There are far more of them out there than you think.

Pro-pedophile literature and argumentation has a certain flavor about it of downright advocacy. I’ve read enough of it to know what it looks like. As a teleiophile, I have no personal interest in the matter, but I’m fascinated by anything wrong, taboo, messed up, evil, or thought crimes. In fact the truth that I have no personal interest in this subject makes it very easy for me to write about it because it enables me to have an emotional distance from it.


Lamb, Sharon. 2001. The Secret Lives of Girls: What Good Girls Really Do – Sex Play, Aggression, and Their Guilt. The Free Press, 2001.

Skenazy, Lenore. Free Range Kids: How to Raise Safe, Self-Reliant Children. Jossey-Bass, 2009.

Rind, Bruce. 2000. “Science Versus Orthodoxy: Anatomy of the Congressional Condemnation of a Scientific Article and Reflections on Remedies for Future Ideological Attacks.” Applied & Preventive Psychology 9: 211-225. Cambridge University Press.

Rind, Bruce, et al. 1998. “A Meta-Analytic Examination of Assumed Properties of Child Sexual Abuse Using College Samples.” Psychological Bulletin, 124: 1, 22-53.

Rind, Bruce, et al. 2001. “The Validity and Appropriateness of Methods, Analyses, and Conclusions in Rind et al. (1998): A Rebuttal of Victimological Critique from Ondersma et al. (2001) and Dallam et al. (2001).” Psychological Bulletin 127: 6, 734-758.

Tolman, Deborah L. 2002. Teenage Girls Talk About Sexuality. Harvard University Press.

Whittier, Nancy. The Politics of Child Sexual Abuse: Emotion, Social Movements, and the State. Oxford University Press, 2009.

US Officials Keep Boasting About How Much The Ukraine War Serves US Interests

Do you realize just how sickening this is? Do you see what we are doing? We’re not outraged about Russian invading this country at all. This war is going exactly as we planned it. We’ve been planning this war since at least 2008 and we’ve been trying to provoke Russia into attacking since 2014.

All of the outrage is fake! We’re happy that they invaded because that means the plan is going as hoped. We tried to trick Russia into this for the reasons elucidated below, and they fell into the trap, but they really had no choice.

By the way, provoking your enemy into attacking you and then screaming, “They attacked us innocent people for no reason!” is the oldest one in the book. You get to portray your enemy as an evil invader who attacked a peaceful country in an unprovoked and illegal invasion.

See how many of these shitlibs scream that Russia is the one at fault because they were “the evil invader.” The source of their outrage is “Russia invaded.” So that means Russia’s the bad guy right there.

Once you invade a country, you’re often seen as the bad guy, the aggressor, so countries try to bait other countries into attacking them so they can position their enemies as “evil invaders and aggressors” and the country who baited them into it as “a peaceful country bothering no one who got invaded by a pure evil country for nefarious reasons.”

The US does this BS all the time. We are always trying to bait our enemies into attacks us or our allies so we can use it as an excuse to destroy them as “evil invaders.”

The Jews (Israel) do this crap all the time. They’re always trying to bait enemy countries into attacking them, mostly by attacking them first. Mostly they never fall for the bait because the countries Israel attacked say that Israel is just doing this to try to provoke a response out of us. When we attack them, they will say,

They attacked us for no reason to try to kill us all!

the West will go along with the whole thing, and Israel will use the attack to justify an invasion and demolition of that country. If Syria, fights back, Israel will try to destroy Syria. Same with Lebanon. Same with Iran. They generally refuse to take the bait.

People are idiots because they think that this sleazy BS never happens. War is a dirty game! It’s only for the very worst human beings of all. If you have a decent country, you have decent people leading your nation in war, but that’s not usually the case. Usually the war is being run by the worst monsters in your country.

The reason the US and Israel do this crap is because they are very strong countries. Usually very strong countries try to bait weaker countries into attacking them or peers into attacking their allies. They then arm the ally to weaken the peer enemy. Can you see that this is what is happening in Ukraine?

One of the most glaring plot holes in the official mainstream narrative on Ukraine is the way US officials keep openly boasting that this supposedly unprovoked war which the US is only backing out of the goodness of its heart just so happens to serve US interests tremendously.

In a recent article for the Connecticut Post, Senator Richard Blumenthal assured Americans that “we’re getting our money’s worth on our Ukraine investment.”

For less than 3 percent of our nation’s military budget, we’ve enabled Ukraine to degrade Russia’s military strength by half,” writes Blumenthal. “We’ve united NATO and caused the Chinese to rethink their invasion plans for Taiwan. We’ve helped restore faith and confidence in American leadership — moral and military. All without a single American service woman or man injured or lost, and without any diversion or misappropriation of American aid.

As Antiwar’s Dave DeCamp recently observed, this type of “investment” talk about Ukraine has been getting more common. Last weekend Senator Mitt Romney called the war
…the best national defense spending I think we’ve ever done. We’re losing no lives in Ukraine, and the Ukrainians are fighting heroically against Russia,” Romney said. “We’re diminishing and devastating the Russian military for a very small amount of money … a weakened Russia is a good thing.
Last month Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell argued that Americans should support the US government’s proxy warfare in Ukraine because “we haven’t lost a single American in this war,” adding that the spending is helping to employ Americans in the military-industrial complex.
Most of the money that we spend related to Ukraine is actually spent in the US, replenishing weapons, more modern weapons. So it’s actually employing people here and improving our own military for what may lie ahead.
McConnell has been talking about how much this war benefits the US since last year. During a speech back in December the ailing swamp monster argued:
The most basic reasons for continuing to help Ukraine degrade and defeat the Russian invaders are cold, hard, practical American interests. Helping equip our friends in Eastern Europe to win this war is also a direct investment in reducing Vladimir Putin’s future capabilities to menace America, threaten our allies and contest our core interests.

As we’ve discussed previously, US empire managers have been talking about how much this war serves US interests ever since it began.

In May of last year Congressman Dan Crenshaw said on Twitter:

The perpetually war-horny senator Lindsey Graham tweeted:

“It is in America’s national security interests for Putin’s Russia to be defeated in Ukraine,”

Last November the imperial war machine-funded think tank Center for European Policy Analysis published an article titled “It’s Costing Peanuts for the US to Defeat Russia,” subtitled “The cost-benefit analysis of US support for Ukraine is incontrovertible. It’s producing wins at almost every level.”

US spending of 5.6% of its defense budget to destroy nearly half of Russia’s conventional military capability seems like an absolutely incredible investment,” gushed the article’s author Timothy Ash.

“If we divide out the US defense budget to the threats it faces, Russia would perhaps be of the order of $100bn-150bn in spend-to-threat. So spending just $40bn a year, erodes a threat value of $100–150bn, a two-to-three time return. Actually the return is likely to be multiples of this given that defense spending, and threat are annual recurring events.”

And of course the mass media have been all aboard the same messaging. A few weeks ago The Washington Post’s David Ignatius wrote an article explaining why westerners shouldn’t “feel gloomy” about how things are going in Ukraine, writing the following about how much this war is doing to benefit US interests overseas:

Meanwhile, for the United States and its NATO allies, these 18 months of war have been a strategic windfall, at relatively low cost (other than for the Ukrainians). The West’s most reckless antagonist has been rocked.

NATO has grown much stronger with the additions of Sweden and Finland. Germany has weaned itself from dependence on Russian energy and, in many ways, rediscovered its sense of values. NATO squabbles make headlines, but overall, this has been a triumphal summer for the alliance.

I suspect I’ll be periodically reminding my readers of that paragraph — and Ignatius’ parenthetical “other than for the Ukrainians” aside — for the remainder of my writing career.

So on one hand the western political/media class have been hammering us in the face with the message that the invasion of Ukraine was “unprovoked” and that the US and its allies played no antagonistic role in paving the road to this conflict whatsoever, and on the other hand you’ve got all these empire managers enthusing about how much this war benefits US interests.

Those two narratives seem a wee bit contradictory, do they not?

A critical thinker can reconcile this contradiction in one of two ways. First, they can believe that the world’s most powerful and destructive government is just a passive, innocent witness to the violence in Ukraine, and is only benefiting immensely from the war as a complete coincidence. Second, they can believe the US intentionally provoked this war with the understanding that it would benefit from it.

From where I’m sitting, it’s not difficult to determine which of these is more likely.

A Reclassification of the Dutch Language

Warning! This post is quite long. It is 16,000 words, so it would be 68 pages in a book, but it runs to 126 pages on the Net. Frequently updated – last updated September 1, 2023.

This is a repost of an old post of mine. I lost all the graphics and they were not accessible on Way Back Machine the way some are. I made quite a few changes to Low Saxon. I pretty much left the rest alone. The classification of Low Saxon is basically mess anyway no matter how you did it. I think my treatment is probably the best one so far. There are still some minor dialect I did not discuss when I should have.

Where the Dutch language begins and where it ends is an important question. Ethnologue splits Low Franconian-Low Saxon (whatever that is) into 15 languages – Flemish, Dutch, Zeelandic, Afrikaans, Achterhoeks, Drents, Gronings, Plautdietsch, Sallands, Low Saxon, Stellingwerfs, Twents, Veluws, Westphalian, and East Frisian Low Saxon. Instead of the confusing Low Franconian-Low Saxon, we will henceforth refer to the same as “Macro-Dutch.”

This treatment will lump together many of the Dutch Low Saxon lects, including East Frisian Low Saxon and Westphalian Low Saxon into Dutch, while allowing German Low Saxon to remain in German. This is different from some different treatments that claim that all Westphalian, German and Dutch, is part of the German language. I also made some new languages out of some very divergent dialects.

I split Veluws in two with West Veluws going into Low Franconian and East Veluws into Low Saxon. I removed many of the Low Saxon dialects placed in Westphalian Low Saxon into a subcategory under that group called Gelders Overjissels, which I expanded from its present three dialects to six. I also removed Stellingwerfs from Westphalian Low Saxon and put it in Northern Low Saxon, which I renamed Friso-Saxon. I split Friso-Saxon into Stellingwerfs, Groningen, and North Frisian Low Saxon when traditionally it is only split into Groningen.

I moved Limburgish out of Macro-German into Macro-Dutch where it belongs. I also created at least a dozen new Macro-Dutch languages.

An important question is the position of Frisian languages in all of this. Currently Ethnologue has them in Anglo-Frisian. Gooskens 2004 makes a good case that Frisian is better analyzed as Macro-Dutch than Anglo-Frisian based on Levenshtein distance. She is probably correct, but I am going to leave Frisian outside of Dutch until I can analyze it better.

Anyway, genetically, Frisian is a part of an Anglo-Frisian family (Gooskens 2004). However, Frisian has drifted far away from English due to massive influence from Dutch such that it now is closer to Dutch than the Scandinavian languages are to each other (Gooskens 2004). It depends on if you wish to analyze Frisian based on its genetic history or on which language it is closest to.

One thing that ought to be dispensed with immediately is the notion that German, Dutch, Flemish and Afrikaans are intelligible with each other. The truth is that Hochdeutsch speakers can at worst barely understand a word of any of them and at best have only limited intelligibility.

Neither is German intelligible to Dutch speakers, even after 3-4 years of studying German. This even holds for Low German, which is often held to be intelligible with Dutch. It’s not, even after 3-4 years of study and even to speakers of Dutch-German border lects in the Netherlands that are presumably closer to Low German than the rest of Dutch. After 3-4 years of German, Dutch speakers have only 55% intelligibility of Low German, and the ones on the border have only 59% intelligibility of Low German (Gooskens in publication).

Nor are Frisian and Dutch mutually intelligible, another common claim. They have combined intelligibility of 61% (Gooskens 2005). Nor are Afrikaans and Dutch mutually intelligible. Combined intelligibility of the two languages is 55%, the same as Spanish and Portuguese (Gooskens 2005).

The Dutch either have a nationalist complex or are possible simply ignorant or indifferent on the question of what constitutes “Dutch.” They take a very conservative, nationalist view of the language question.

To the Dutch, every language spoken in the Netherlands and some spoken outside of it is Dutch. Brabantian, Flemish, Veluws, Afrikaans, Limburgish, Bergish, Guelderish, Kleverlandish and Dutch Low Saxon are often all considered to be dialects of Dutch.

In other words, everything but Frisian in the Netherlands and Belgium along with a few languages in Germany is Dutch. This is truly a maximalist position.

To be fair to the Dutch, I’m making a similar claim here, but instead of calling all of the above dialects of Dutch, I will call them separate languages under an umbrella called Macro-Dutch which subsumes them all.

The Dutch do recognize Limburgs and Low Saxon as minority languages even while at the same time saying that they are dialects of Dutch, which is an incoherent position because dialects of Dutch like Zeelandic do not get national protection while Low Saxon and Limburgs, which the Dutch also say are dialects of Dutch, get protection as separate languages. Not that nationalist linguistic politics ever makes a lick on linguistic sense.

Of course it doesn’t and it’s as full of BS, lies, and nonsense as any form of politics, an inherently irrational endeavor. That we linguists who claim to be social scientists also pathetically bow to nationalist politicians and let them split up our languages for fear of nationalist attacks is inept and pusillanimous, not to mention grossly unscientific.

This is usually done under the unscientific notion that “linguistics has no way of determining what is a dialect and what is a language, hence it is a political and not a linguistic question,” is intellectually feeble and cowardly.

Of course the linguists involved in this grossly unscientific endeavor claim to be doing “strict science” by determining that there are some scientific questions that science cannot answer. This is a typical dodge in all of the social sciences so timid and sorry social scientists can avoid dealing with ugly politicized questions in our fields. Of course there are no scientific questions that cannot be answered by science.

That’s ridiculous. Linguists literally claim that asking, “What is the difference between a dialect and a language” is the same question as “Is there a God?” Ridiculous, huh? I know. It’s also pitiful. And linguists wonder why people saying the social sciences aren’t sciences. Look in the mirror, colleagues. Physics envy is a thing.

This is of course nonsense as obviously we can come up with any metric we like for splitting dialects into languages. All we need to do is more or less enforce it across the board and we’re done.

Spain, Germany, Italy, France, and Sweden do not recognize the languages under the umbrellas of Macro-Spanish, Macro-German, Macro-Italian, Macro-French and Macro-Swedish umbrella, instead calling them dialects.

Spain does not recognize Asturian, Aragonese or Extremaduran. France does not recognize the many langues d’oil. Italian does not recognize Piedmontese, Ligurian, Lombard, Venetian, Emigliano, Romano, Neapolitan or Sicilian. Sweden does not recognize Scanian, Gutnish, Jamska or Dalecarlian. Germany does not recognize Bavarian, Swabian, High Franconian, Low German, Westphalian, Upper Saxon, Ripuarian or Pfaelzisch.

Probably the reasons that these languages are not recognized is due to the national consolidationist efforts behind a standard language and the fears of splintering the standard into substandard forms and the separatism that may ensue. So the Dutch are simply following in standard European modernist tradition.

This has resulted in problems and violations of language rights for speakers of other Low Franconian lects. For instance, Zeelandic is definitely a separate language, not a dialect of Dutch. Zeelandic speakers petitioned to have their language recognized as a minority language nine years ago, but the Dutch government has refused to grant this request.

The truth may disturb many Dutch speakers. For Dutch is not just the 15 languages confusingly listed in Ethnologue; it is actually 37 separate languages, which I will attempt to demonstrate below.

Method: Various “Dutch” and “Low Franconian” lects were analyzed on the basis of mutual intelligibility with Standard Dutch to see if they warranted treatment as separate languages. A rough guide was >90% intelligibility = Dutch dialect and <90% intelligibility = separate “Macro-Dutch” language. There are reasons for choosing 90% as a metric. Below 90%, and it gets difficult to discuss complex or technical subjects. Also, 90% seems to be where Ethnologue splits dialects from languages these days, and they are in charge of giving out ISO codes.

Other lects in Ethnologue’s treatment were analyzed to determine whether they belonged in “Macro-German” or “Macro-Dutch.” Westphalian and German Low Saxon were moved to Macro-German; the rest were moved to Macro-Dutch.

Anecdotal reports and scientific studies were reviewed, and native speaker informants were interviewed. Where intelligibility estimates are controversial, scientific intelligibility studies could always settle the matter. The creole was not counted.

Results: Ethnologue’s Low Franconian-Low Saxon was expanded from 15 into 32 languages based on mutual intelligibility. Below, separate languages are in bold, while dialects are in italics. Dutch, like Arabic, Italian, German, Chinese and so many others, is a macrolanguage.

Discussion: This work is merely a working hypothesis intended to be discussed and criticized by scholars and interested parties. I would be interested in criticism on a peer review basis. Criticism must be both constructive and friendly, otherwise it will be summarily rejected. This is very much a work in progress.

Dutch Creoles

In recent years, there were five Dutch creoles spoken in Indonesia, Guyana, and the US Virgin Islands. It appears that four of the five are extinct, and one is barely alive.

Berbice Creole Dutch is barely alive, spoken in Guyana by only four speakers. There are another 15 with limited competence. It is spoken in the Berbice River region of the country. About 1/3 of the words and most of the morphology is from the Nigerian Bantu language Izon, a language with 1 million speakers. The rest of the lexicon is mostly from Dutch. 10% of the words are borrowings from Guyanese Creole English and Arawak, an Indian language still spoken in Guyana.

Low Franconian Languages and Dialects

Standard Dutch, Algemeen Nederlands or AN (henceforth, AN) is a major world language spoken by all 15 million residents of the Netherlands and an additional 7 million speakers elsewhere. Although one might suspect that Dutch goes all the way back to the oldest Old Franconian, actually, the lects closest to Old Franconian are French Flemish, West Flemish and Zeeland Flemish. Dutch proper seems to have broken off sooner.

Dutch has many dialects, but they are all more or less intelligible. There are two forms of Dutch in general – Hollandic Dutch and Brabantian Dutch. Both are part of AN. Modern Belgian Dutch is much more Brabantian than Hollandic.

There is also Brabantian Netherlands Dutch, a dialect of Netherlands Dutch, and Brabantian Belgian Dutch, a dialect of Belgian Dutch or Vlaams (Grondelaers 2009).

Surinamese Dutch is a Dutch dialect, easily intelligible with AN, that is spoken in Suriname. It has 280,000 speakers, or 60% of the population. It is the official language of Suriname.

Netherlands Dutch is the Dutch dialect spoken in the Netherlands, differentiating with Belgian Dutch. It is widely understood throughout the country, especially the Standard Dutch variety of this dialect that has been popularized in the Netherlands since the 1960’s.

Netherlands Brabantian Dutch is a Dutch dialect spoken in North Brabant Province in the Netherlands (Grondelaers 2009). It is easily intelligible with AN. This dialect has about 2.45 million speakers.

Belgian Brabantian Dutch is spoken in North Brabant Province and in Antwerp Province in Belgium by about 3.4 million speakers. It is being replaced by French in Brussels, but it is still widely spoken elsewhere.

VRT-Nederlands, BRT-Nederlands, VT-Nederlands or BT-Nederlands are abbreviations for the form of AN spoken in Belgium. It may be thought as “Dutch with a Fleming accent.” It is easily intelligible with AN and is increasingly heard on Belgian TV. Further, many Flemings can also speak this language, which is pretty much what they are taught in school under the rubric of “Dutch” classes. There is tremendous confusion between this dialect and “Flemish.”

This dialect is simply a dialect of Dutch or AN. The varieties subsumed under Flemish are completely different languages altogether. This dialect is making increasing inroads in Belgian life, and some Flemish speakers are becoming alarmed about this.

Stadsfries is a mixed dialect spoken in certain urban areas of Friesland such as the towns of Leeuwarden, Dokkum, Bolsward, Sneek, Stavoren, Harlingen and Franeker. Originally Frisian speakers, they gave up Frisian for Dutch about 500 years ago. The vocabulary is mostly Dutch with Frisian pronunciation. AN speakers can understand this dialect pretty easily. Lately it is seriously declining and has low prestige, hence it is becoming a sociolect spoken mostly by low-income people in the cities.

Snekers is a Stadsfries dialect spoken in the Friesland city of Sneker. It traces back to 1600 or so when locals abandoned West Frisian for Hollandic speech as an elite gesture, since Hollandic was not spoken much outside of the Holland Provinces. By 1800, the rest of the city had modeled their elitist behavior after the rich and the whole city spoke Snekers. It continued to be a highly valued speech until 1900. People kept speaking it a lot until WW2.

The disdain towards Frisian, seen as peasant speech, continues in many Snekers speakers to this day. In the 20th Century, many rural people moved to the city, and many foreigners moved there too. Snekers became a speech used only by Sneker natives among themselves. They spoke Dutch or sometimes Frisian to newcomers. Nowadays, Snekers is dying. The youth have taken it up, but they speak a watered down version that is probably intelligible to AN speakers.

Hollandic Dutch is the other large dialect of Dutch besides Brabantian Dutch. Hollandic is spoken in the provinces of North Holland and South Holland by about 6 million speakers. This dialect is intelligible with AN. Hollandic Dutch is the variety that is closest to AN. It is divided into two lects, North Hollandic Dutch and South Hollandic Dutch.

IJmuidens is a North Hollandic dialect spoken by the lower classes in IJmuiden, the third largest port in the Netherlands, in North Holland. The dialect is probably readily intelligible with AN.

Haarlems is the North Hollandic dialect spoken in Haarlem in North Holland, especially by the lower classes. It does not differ much from Amsterdams or AN. This area has long had the reputation for being the place where the purest Dutch is spoken, although this is no longer true anymore. Nowadays, the purest Dutch is spoken in places like Dronten on the Dutch polders in the IJsselmeer.

Nijmeegs is a very interesting South Hollandic dialect spoken in the city of Nijmegen in eastern Gelderland. Although strictly speaking it should be a South Gulderish dialect, it has heavy Hollandic features such that it may well be intelligible to AN speakers. Until the late 1800’s, residents of the city were speaking a typical South Gulderish dialect. However, in the late 1800’s, the upper class of the city began speaking a Randstad dialect similar to Amsterdams and Haags.

The lower classes quickly began speaking the same dialect, and the traditional dialect of the city disappeared, as it was poorly valued anyway. Nijmeegs still has some East Brabantian, Limburgish and Achterhoeks features, but it also lacks many characteristic Limburgish and Brabantian features of surrounding dialects.

Amsterdams is the South Hollandic dialect of the city of Amsterdam, spoken by the lower classes in the city. It is still spoken in the city, especially in certain neighborhoods. Although it is located in North Hollands, Amsterdams is more of a South Hollands dialect. A book published in 1874 found an astounding 19 different dialects spoken in the city.

Although it is still spoken, Amsterdams is associated with lower-classes, street toughs, etc, such that many Amsterdammers try to unlearn the dialect in order to improve their career chances. Amsterdams has many Yiddish words due to the fact that a large Jewish community has traditionally lived there. Amsterdams is intelligible with AN.

Haags is a South Hollandic dialect spoken by the lower classes in The Hague. It is easily intelligible with AN. The dialect is dying out and undergoing serious leveling, but since the 1980’s there has been a movement to bring back the dialect, and more residents of the city are speaking it, often with intentionally exaggerated features. Its syntax is similar to AN and is quite different from the nearby Rotterdams and Leids dialects.

Gouds is a South Hollandic dialect spoken in the city of Gouda, 20 miles northeast of Rotterdam. In many ways it is similar to AN. With mass immigration and compulsory education in AN, the real Gouds is hardly heard anymore.

Rotterdams is the South Hollandic dialect spoken in the city of Rotterdam. It differs little from AN. This is because the standard for Hollandic dialects, dating back to 1600, was the Rotterdams dialect. Its influence spread throughout the region, first to the upper classes and then to the lower classes as they imitated the speech of the rich.

The Rotterdams dialect does have many unique features, mostly due the waves of immigrants who have come to the city, each bringing their own language which added to the Rotterdams dialect. In the 1800’s, there was a large influence from Brabantian and Zeelandic speakers.

In the 1900’s, the influences have become more varied, as speakers of Arabic and the Papiamento or Surinamese creoles added their words to the mix. It is still heard throughout the Rotterdam region and in the cities of Spijkenisse, Hellevoetsluis and Capelle aan den IJssel to the east and southwest.

Bildts is a mixed Frisian-Dutch lect spoken in the Het Bildt, a polder region in Friesland northwest of Leeuwarden that dates back to the 1500’s. Many immigrants came from the South Holland area to this part of Friesland to help create the polders. Their South Hollandic lects mixed with the Frisian spoken by the local farm workers to create this interesting mixed dialect.

Intelligibility between Bildts and AN is not known, but in a dialect map published in 1974 showed Bildts the furthest of all from AN (Berns 1991). On the basis of that study, Bildts may indeed be a separate language, but better intelligibility data would be nice.

Midslands is a North Hollandic dialect, similar to Stadsfries, that is still spoken in on Terschelling Island off the coast of Friesland in the village of Midsland. It has Hollandic and Frisian influences. Intelligibility data is lacking.

Amelands is a another dialect like Midslands and Stadsfries. It has mostly Hollandic vocabulary with Frisian grammar. There are four villages on the island, each with their own dialect. Nevertheless, all dialects are intelligible with each other.

The dialect developed in the 1700’s when Hollandic migrants moved to the island, probably for trade, and the locals gave up their Frisian speech for Hollandic. The process was not complete, and Amelands was the result. It is still very widely used. 85% of youth continue to speak Amelands. Intelligibility with AN is not known.

Burgerzeeuws is a Dutch dialect spoken in Zeeland. Though it ought to be part of the Zeelandic language, it is not. It was originally Zeelandic, spoken in the cities of Zeeland, which was then replaced with Hollandic by status-conscious upwardly mobile people. Like Stadsfries, this language developed in the 1600’s. It is especially spoken in Middelburg and Vissingen.

In the 1990’s, only 1/3 of urban Zeelanders spoke Zeelandic, compared to 2/3 in the province as a whole. This dialect is still alive though, even among the youth, especially in conservative Christian circles. In some areas this dialect is scorned, while in others it is valued. Burgerzeeuws has unknown intelligibility with AN, but it is probably easier to understand than Zeelandic proper.

Heerlen Dutch is a Limburgish-Dutch creole or dialect of Dutch spoken in the city of Heerlen in Limburg Province, the Netherlands. In the 1800’s, there were many coal miners in this area and everyone spoken Heerlen Limburgish. As the mines expanded, people came to work from all over the Netherlands and even the Kerkrade region of Germany.

None of them spoke Heerlen, and many didn’t even speak Limburgish. Later a sort of creole based on AN and Heerlen arose. What we have now is a Dutch dialect with a Heerlen base and a strong Limburgish flavor, not really a Limburgish dialect per se. Heerlen Dutch is apparently intelligible with AN.

Westfries is a highly divergent dialect spoken in West Friesland that is not to be confused with the West Frisian language. It is dying out and is only spoken by about 8% of the population. There are many subdialects, often one for every village or town, and they often differ considerably.

There is some confusion about the difference between this language  and the West Frisian language proper. It has heavy Frisian influence. A better way to describe it might be to say that it is a mixed language of Dutch and West Frisian, almost a “creole.” It could also be described as Dutch with a heavy Frisian substrate.

Westfries was apparently a Frisian language for centuries until it died out about 200 years ago. It appears to have transformed from a full Frisian language to a form of Dutch. The strong variety is still used in cabaret performances.

Another way to look at it is that Westfries is one of the last of the more pure Hollandic dialects. Most of the rest of Hollandic has undergone serious leveling such that most of the peculiar features, such as the Frisian substrate that characterized all Hollandic, have washed out. AN speakers reportedly have a hard time understanding Westfries, and it is about as distant from AN as Zeelandic. There appears to be more than one language inside Westfries, since it’s not uncommon for speakers of varying Westfries lects to not understand each other.

Westfries consists of two parts. One, the Westfries language, which consists of Island Westfries. And two, Land Westfries, which is part of the North Hollandic language.

Island Westfries or Eland Westfries is a major split in Westfries. This is spoken on the islands and former islands of Texel, Vlieland, and Wieringen and on land in the city of Enkhuizen. Island Westfries has poor intelligibility with the more common Land Westfries due to its archaic character, hence it may be a separate language.

Wierings is an Island Westfries dialect spoken on the former island of Wieringen. It is very close to Tess, the dialect of Texel Island. Wierings is rapidly disappearing and is only spoken by the older generation. Younger people speak a weak Wierings which looks more like Land Westfries. There is a navy base on Wieringen, so many non-islanders have come to live there.

Tessels is an Island Westfries dialect spoken on the island of Texel in North Holland that is so different from the rest of Island Westfries that it must be a separate language. It is still widely spoken, especially in the rural areas, but it is not much spoken in the larger cities. There are different varieties of Tessels spoken in the towns of Oudeschild, De Cocksdorp, Den Hoorn and Oosterend. The dialects differ greatly, and speakers from different towns do not necessarily understand each other fully, hence intelligibility is somewhat marginal among the dialects.

North Hollandic is a language spoken in North Holland Province. It consists of the Land Westfries, Zaans and Waterlands dialects and the Kennemerlands language. The situation is confusing, as there is also North Hollandic Dutch, a dialect of AN.

Land Westfries is a dialect of North Hollandic, a major split in the Westfries language. This variety is less conservative and has been influenced more by Dutch. The more archaic varieties of Island Westfries have poor intelligibility with Land Westfries.

Kennemerlands is a North Hollandic lect spoken in Kennermerland around the cities of Haarlem and Beverwijk. It arose in the Middle Ages due to contact between Frisian speaking fishermen and speakers of North Hollandic. Towards the north, it looks more like Westfries and Zaans. It is best analyzed as a transitional dialect between North Hollandic and Westfries. It is unintelligible to AN speakers, and is apparently a separate language.

Durkers or Egmonds is a strange dialect, often analyzed as either Westfries or Kennemerlands, spoken on Egmond aan Zee in the north of North Hollands Province. In this treatment, we will analyze it as Kennemerlands. It is not intelligible with AN (Anonymous January 2010)

Zaans-Waterlands is a North Hollandic lect spoken in North Holland Province. It is composed of two dialects, Zaans and Waterlands.

Zaans is an archaic North Hollandic dialect spoken in the Zaan, an old settled and industrial area between Amsterdam and Haarlem. It is spoken in the city of Zandam and in the towns of Wormerveer, Krommenie, and Zaandijk. It apparently arose out of Westfries. Zaans has difficult intelligibility with AN.

Waterlands is a Zaans-Waterlands dialect that is spoken between the Zaan and the IJsselmeer, the inland sea in the Netherlands. This dialect is very archaic, though it is similar to Zaans and Westfries. It has difficult intelligibility with AN.

Volendams is a Waterlands dialect that is extremely divergent. It is unintelligible with AN, and even other Waterlands speakers have a hard time understanding it, so it is probably a separate language.

The city of Volendam was isolated for centuries, and this gave rise to its strange language. This isolation, combined with immigration of speakers of other odd dialects from fishing villages around the Zuiderzee, helped shape Volendams. Volendams received huge immigration in 1859 following the evacuation of the former Zuiderzee island of Schokland due to fierce storms. The Schokland residents spoke a strange dialect called Schokkers which was basically a Low Saxon dialect similar to Urkers.

Markens is a very unusual Waterlands dialect that is spoken on the former island of Marken. It also received large input from the fleeing residents of Schokland. Markens is one of the most unusual dialects in the Netherlands and has been the subject of many studies. It has difficult intelligibility with AN, but intelligibility with the rest of Waterlands is not known.

Markens appears to have a heavy base of Frisian or even Old Frisian. It appears to be undergoing dialect leveling under the pressure of the mass media and immigration, and young people typically do not speak pure Markens.

Goois is dialect spoken in Het Gooi, a region in the far southeast of North Hollands. Cities in this region include Naarden, Bussum, Huizon, Blaricum, Laren, and Hilversum. Opinions on this dialect are varied. One view is it is a Dutch-Low Saxon transition dialect, mostly in the far east of Blaricum, Laren, and Hilversum.

That would be transitional to West Veluws. This view sees the rest of the area as Hollandic. There is also influence from the Utrechts dialects. The dialect is still alive, especially in the three eastern cities discussed above.

South Hollandic is a lect spoken in South Hollandic Province. A similar situation is going on here as with Brabantian and North Hollandic. As there is Brabantian Dutch and North Hollandic Dutch and Brabantian and North Hollandic languages, so there is South Hollandic Dutch and the South Hollandic language. The South Hollandic language is mostly gone now, as dialect leveling has moved most of the dialects to South Hollandic Dutch. However, it remains alive in the form of the Strandhollands and East IJsselmonds dialects.

Aalsmeers is a dialect spoken in the city of Aalsmeer in southern North Holland near the border with South Holland. Traditionally, it was a Strandhollands dialect, but it has lost most of its Strandhollands features and is probably not a part of that group anymore. It has a similar genesis with the Strandhollands language, in that it was formed by immigrants from the Frisian-speaking north moving down to the area long ago.

However, due to geographical isolation (they were cut off on three sides by marshes or lakes and only accessible via a sliver of land) they were cut off from the rest of Strandhollands and the convergent evolution with it ended. There was also a group of Mennonites who came down from Friesland and settled in the area.

Immigrants probably kept speaking Frisian here longer than in other places. In general, this dialect is best seen as transitional between North and South Hollandic. The original Aalsmeers dialect is nearly extinct. Intelligibility data with AN is not known.

Strandhollands is a very conservative dialect of the Hollandic language spoken in the fishing villages in the area of Sheveningen and Katwijik aan Zee in the Holland Provinces. Intelligibility in general is marginal at best and hardly possible at worst between this lect and AN (Anonymous January 2010), hence it is a separate language.

This is a very archaic South Hollandic language that has preserved many old features, while the rest of South Hollandic behind the dunes has trended towards Hollandic Dutch. Strandhollands retains many features of Medieval Dutch. It is interesting that the standard dialect of The Hague is close nearby.

It emerged about 400 years ago, and its provenance is obscure. Probably fishermen from elsewhere on the coast, such as Friesland and and the Zuiderzee, moved into the area to take up fishing. The language has a strong Frisian substrate. Probably the isolation of the villages helped to keep the lect different from surrounding evolving lects.

The Strandhollands dialects become more intelligible with AN as one moves to the south. The least comprehensible for AN speakers ones are generally in North Holland Province. Intelligibility data between this and East IJsselmonds, is needed.

Wijk aan Zee is a Strandhollands dialect spoken in the fishing village of Wijk aan Zee that has poor intelligibility with AN (Anonymous January 2010). The town is located west of Beverwijk.

Zandvoort is a Strandhollands dialect that is hardly comprehensible to AN speakers (Anonymous January 2010). It is spoken in Zandvoort on the coast west of Haarlem.

Noordwijks is a Strandhollands dialect spoken in the fishing village of Noordwijks an Zee in South Holland Province. Intelligibility with AN is somewhat marginal (Anonymous January 2010). Noordwijks is probably the easiest Strandhollands lect for AN speakers to understand.

Katwijks is a Strandhollands lect spoken in the fishing village of Katwijks an Zee in South Holland Province. It is based on an archaic version of Leids, the dialect of the city of Leiden. Katwijks, like Zandvoort and Wijk aan Zee to the north, is barely comprehensible to AN speakers (Anonymous January 2010).

Schevenings is a Strandhollands dialect spoken in the fishing village of Scheveningen in South Holland Province. It has marginal intelligibility with AN (Anonymous January 2010). This dialect is said to be based an archaic version of Haags, the dialect of The Hague.

Zoetermeers is a very divergent South Hollandic dialect spoken in the city of Zoetermeer 10 miles east of the Hague. This was always an isolated farming village, so it was not effected much by the trends effecting the Haags dialect a short while away. In the 1960’s, the population grew from 10,000 to 120,000 as immigrants flooded into the Hague region. Hence, only a few locals speak the dialect anymore.

Westhoeks is spoken in the Westhoek in northwest North Brabant. It’s a South Hollandic dialect spoken in Brabant. No one is sure why. They are Protestants, and this may have something to do with it, but it’s more likely a case similar to Bildts, where many Hollandic-speaking immigrants moved to the area after the polders were created in the 1600’s and afterward. Intelligibility with the rest of South Hollandic is not known.

Westhoeks is divergent enough from the rest of South Hollandic to be given its own category in many analyses. It has some influence from Dordts, the old dialect of Dordrect not far to the north.

Fijnaarts is a Westhoeks dialect spoken in the village of Fijnaart in North Brabant.

Dordts is a South Hollandic dialect spoken in the city of Dordrect that is intelligible with the rest of South Hollandic. It has heavy Zeelandic and Brabantian influences. In the 20th Century, it underwent dialect leveling under the influence of the much less divergent Rotterdams dialect in Rotterdam. The strongest Dordts is now heard in the center of the city.

IJsselmonds is a South Hollandic lect spoken south of Rotterdam on the old island of IJsselmond, now reclaimed from the sea. The former island can now be seen via satellite as #9 on this map. In general, it is south of Rotterdam between the Niewe Maas and the Spijkenisse Rivers. The region is now heavily industrial, particularly gone over to shipbuilding. The lect is quite a bit different from both AN and Rotterdams. It has two main variants, West and East IJsselmonds.

West IJsselmonds has come under severe Rotterdams influence and can hardly be heard in its pure form anymore. It is only barely alive in the town of Pernis.

East IJsselmonds is extremely divergent from AN and Rotterdams and cannot be understood outside the region. It has mostly undergone dialect leveling and in general is rarely heard. The youth speak a watered down version that is intelligible with AN. Only in the city of Hedrik-Ido-Ambrecht can the true lect be heard on an everyday basis. Given that it’s unintelligible outside the region, it may be a separate language. Intelligibility data between this and the rest of South Hollandic, especially Strandhollands, is needed.

Ambachts is the last remaining holdout of the East IJsselmonds language. This is a deeply conservative dialect, the most conservative of the language, such that the lect of one village may differ greatly from the next. It has striking influences from the Umbrechts-Alblasserwards dialect group to the east.

Baorendrechts is a deeply conservative East IJsselmonds dialect that is spoken in the city of Barendrecht. It has been mostly superseded by AN these days.

Bulessers is another deeply conservative East IJsselmonds dialect spoken in the city of Bolnes. It is almost extinct, under heavy pressure from AN.

Zwindrechts is an East IJsselmonds dialect spoken in Zwijndrecht. It has undergone serious dialect leveling due to the effects of industrialization but can still be heard, mostly in farmers. It has some Dordts influence.

Rekkarkeks is a South Hollandic dialect spoken in the city of Ridderkerk, halfway between Rotterdam and Dordrect. This is a very unusual lect that is very different from AN. Hence is has poor to marginal intelligibility with AN, and thus, it may well be a separate language.

It is located just to the east of the East IJsselmonds language, hence its unusualness is probably due to its East IJsselmonds features. It is barely alive and has only a few speakers left. A diluted version is still quite alive. Intelligibility data with the East IJsselmonds language is urgently needed.

Hoekschewaards is a South Hollandic dialect spoken on a former island southwest of Dordrecht, between the Spijkenisse River and the Haringvliet Channel. The city of Numansdorp is located in this region. This dialect has strong IJsselmonds and Albasserwards tendencies. These are much stronger than the Dordts influences. It has three divisions, West Hoekschewaards, East Hoekschewaards, and Gravendeel. It is still very much alive, though it is coming under heavy influence from Rotterdams and AN.

West Albasserwards is spoken in the Western part of the Albasserwards, east of Rotterdam about halfway to the Utrecht border. The dialect is dying out in many areas, and there is little interest in preserving it. However, in many of the rural areas, a strong dialect is still alive.

In the eastern part of the Albasserwards, the dialect is like that of Utrecht, but in the west it is quite Hollandic, although it has some Utrecht influences. The dialect differs even from village to village. It is spoken in cities such as Sliedrecht and Papendrecht. The Papendrecht dialect is almost gone due to heavy immigration.

Slierechs is the very divergent West Albasserwards dialect spoken in the city of Sliedrecht. People here have taken more interest in their dialect than elsewhere in the region, and there are regular CD’s and books issued on it.

Utrechts-Alblasserwaards is a dialect group of Hollandic dialects spoken in Utrecht Province, far southeast South Hollands and a small part of Gelderland. To the south there are dialects heading into Brabantian and to the east, there are more dialects heading into South Gulderish. The dialect has low prestige, and there is little interest in it, even among speakers. Nevertheless, it is still learned by children, and there are 330,000 speakers of this dialect.

Utrechts is spoken by the lower classes of the city of Utrecht, capital of Utrecht Province. Nowadays it is spoken more in the rural areas around the city than in the city itself, but even in the city, it is still spoken in certain districts. There is a lot of immigration into the city and emigration out of it, so the dialect is dying.

Vijfheerenlands is an Utrechts-Alblasserwaards dialect spoken in the Vijfheerenland region in the southeast of South Holland. This area includes the cities of Vianen, Meerkerk, Leerdam, and Lexmond.

Eemlands is a confusing set of dialects spoken in the eastern part of Utrecht and has strong Veluws influence. Some say that they are Utrechts-Alblasserwaards dialects, and others say that they are West Veluws. The best analysis is that they are transitional between the two varieties, in other words, that they are Low Franconian-Low Saxon transitional dialects.

They are spoken in Soest, Amersfoort, and Bunschoten. Amersfoort and Bunschoten tend to be considered more West Veluws, and Soest tends to be seen as more Utrechts. With the exception of Bunschoten, these dialects are highly endangered.

Geldersevalleis is a set of dialects spoken in the Gelders Valley, 2/3 of which is in Gelderland and 1/3 of which is in Utrechts. The towns of Ede, Wageningen, and Veenendaal are located in this region. These dialects are very hard to characterize, as they have West Veluws, Utrechts, and South Guelderish tendencies. They are seriously declining and becoming more Hollandized.

West Veluws is a strange dialect usually collated with Dutch Low Saxon but which is in fact a Low Franconian dialect. Practically speaking it is best seen as transitional between Low Franconian and Low Saxon. For the most part it is intelligible with AN, but as one moves to the north and east of the West Veluws area, West Veluws gets harder for AN speakers to understand. This dialect has heavy Dutch influence. In most places, this is a dying dialect, and it is not spoken much by young people anymore.

Even the forms of West Veluws still spoken in the home are coming under increasing AN influence. It is spoken in Amersfoort, Spackenburg, Bunschoten, Nijkerk, Barneveld, Putten, Voorthuizen, Ermelo, Elspeet, Uddel, Leuvenum, Harderwijk, Hierden, Nunspeet, Lunteren, Otterlo and Huenderlo. In Nijkerk, Amersfoort, Spackenburg and Bunschoten in the west of the West Veluws region, the dialect is nearly dead.

Brabantian is actually a separate language. It is distinct from Netherlands Brabantian Dutch, which is merely a dialect of Dutch (Grondelaers 2009). The real hardcore Brabantian is dying out, but it is highly divergent, and Dutch speakers say it is incomprehensible. Intelligibility is far lower than for Zeelandic. However, Verkavelingsvlaams speakers can understand Brabantian pretty well, since Verkavelingsvlaams is very Brabantian.

Brabantian is dying out in the Netherlands, but it is still spoken in Tilburg and in the rural areas of Nord Brabant. There is quite a bit of confusion about what is the pure Brabantian and what is Brabantian Dutch, but the key is intelligibility. Brabantian Dutch is easily comprehensible to an AN speaker, and the real Brabantian is not at all. There are two separate languages within North Brabantian, Antwerps and Arendonk. There is also South Brabantian, which is a separate language. All of the rest of Brabantian lects are mutually intelligible.

North Central Brabantian is a dialect of Brabantian that is spoken in the Netherlands and Belgium in a strip that runs along the border around the towns of Ravels, Tilburg, Loon op Zant, Waalwijik, Vlifjmen, Huesderf, and Drunen.

Tilburgs is a hard North Central Brabantian dialect that is still widely spoken in the city of Tilburg in the southern part of the Netherlands. It is intelligible with the rest of Brabantian (Anonymous January 2010).

East Brabantian is spoken in the eastern part of North Brabant. It is one of the main Brabantian divisions. The various divisions of East Brabantian include Kempenlands, North Meierjis, Peellands, Geldrops, and Heeze en Lendes.

It includes the towns of Eindhoven, Veldhoven, Vught, Boxtel, Oirshchot, Best, Acht, Middelbeers, Eersel, Waalre, Mierlo, Luijksgestel, Bergelijk, Aalst, Heeze, Leende, Son, Helmond, Berjeijk, Schijndel, Lieshout, Beek, Gemert, Aarle-Rixtel, Aasten, Someren, Liessel, Duerne, Bakel, Mill, Veghel, Volkel, Uden, Nistelrode, Heesch, Zeeland, Boekel, Sint Michielsgestel in the Netherlands, and Arendonk and Lommel in Belgium. Aside from Arendonk, East Brabantian is intelligible with the rest of Brabantian (Anonymous January 2010).

Northern Kempens is a hard East Brabantian dialect spoken in an area on the border of Belgium and the Netherlands in Eastern Antwerp and western Limburg Provinces in Belgium and north into the Netherlands. Major cities and towns in the region include Turnhout, Arendonk, Eersel, Oirshchot, Hilvarenbeek, Retie, Oisterwijk, Boxtel, and Eindhoven. It is an area of poor soil with many marshes, bogs and forests. Lately, it is primarily a tourist region. Northern Kempens is intelligible with the rest of Brabantian (Anonymous January 2010).

Arendonk is a very specific, apparently highly diverse and possibly archaic Northern Kempens East Brabantian lect spoken near Turnhout close to the Dutch border. It is said to be unintelligible outside of the nearby area. Hence, it may well be a separate language.

Northwest Brabantian is a Brabantian dialect spoken in the Netherlands and Belgium. It is spoken in Breda and the surrounding region to south into Belgium.

Cities in which it is spoken include Breda, Baarle-Hertog, Oosterhout, Steenbergben, Made, Raamsdonksveer, Roosendaal, Putte, Geertruidenberg Hoogstraten, Brecht, Moerdjik, Oudenbosch, Bergen Op Zoom, Huijbergen, Rijsbergen and Woesndrecht in the Netherlands and Woostwezel, Meer, Ekeren, Merksom, Kapellen, Lillo, Stabroek, Meerle, and Rijkevorsel in Belgium.

This dialect was created from the Eighty Years War. After the war, this Brabantian-speaking region was essentially depopulated, and afterward, a large movement of immigration from the Antwerp region occurred, spreading the tendencies of the Antwerps dialect.

Northwest Brabantian consists of three major lects, Antwerps, Baronies and Markiezaats. Antwerps is spoken in Antwerp and north to the Netherlands border. Baronies is spoken in the area around Breda, and Markiezaats is spoken in the west over by Zeeland.

Bredaas is a Northwest Brabantian dialect spoken in the city of Breda that is dying out. It is mostly spoken in certain areas by the older generation. It tends to re-emerge around Carnival time though.

Markiezaats is spoken in the west of North Brabant around the cities of Bergen op Zoom and Steenbergen. It extends over to the Drimmelen region to the northeast and generally includes everything west of Breda.

Antwerps is a hard Northwest Brabantian dialect spoken in Antwerp, Belgium. The language of the city is intelligible with the rest of Brabantian (Anonymous January 2010), but the language of the rural areas is a separate language called Antwerps. This lect is widely disliked in Belgium because it is neither a Flemish nor a Dutch dialect, hence is poorly understood.

It is often heard in the Belgian media, but it is rarely subtitled, and this is the cause of the frustration with non-Antwerps speakers. East Flemish speakers say that they cannot understand it. This language is spoken in Antwerp. In a study, 51% of East Flemish speakers said that they wanted subtitles when listening to Antwerps speakers on TV (De Houwer 2008). Antwerps was regularly heard on TV until recently.

This dialect is one of the most influential in terms of inputs towards the creation of Verkavelingsvlaams. Verkavelingsvlaams at the moment is heavily based on  Antwerps. There is some uncertainty regarding the intelligibility of Antwerps with surrounding lects. Students who recently went to school in Antwerps say that they could not understand students who came from villages in the Antwerps area. If Antwerps is not even intelligible within itself, then surely it must be a separate language within Brabantian.

Standard Flemish, Verkavelingsvlaams, Vlaamse Tussentaal, VT, Soap Vlaams, or Vlaams (henceforth VT) is a koine developed recently in Belgium that is understood by all Flemish speakers and is used often on TV. It is a mixture both of an artificially created Standard Flemish and the local dialects, and AN speakers find it quite incomprehensible. It is nearly the same as Belgian Brabantian. It probably has around 3.4 million speakers in Belgium. VT is fully intelligible with the Brabantian language.

Wase is the name for a group of Brabantian dialects spoken in the Waseland in the far northeast of East Flanders. The capital of this region is the city of St. Niklaas. The area was originally wide fields bounded by willow trees. It flooded and was drained a few times. Many turnips are grown here.

Maaslands is a dialect of Brabantian that is spoken in a narrow strip in North Brabant south of the Maas River. It is spoken in the towns of Empel, Maren, Lith, Herpen, Oijen, Megen, Ravenstein, Oss, and Grave, all of them along the Maas River.

Bosch is a Maaslands dialect spoken in Hertogenbosch, a large city a bit south of the Maas River in North Brabant. The dialect is still pretty well alive, but its use varies throughout the city, with some areas speaking a lot of Bosch and other areas in which it is rarely heard. Due to immigration and the fact that it has become a commuter town, the dialect has been declining for some time now.

Nederbetuws is a confusing dialect, usually included in South Guelderish, spoken in the Lower Betuws in Gelderland. It actually has heavy Brabantian features. The dialects of the river cities of Tiel and Culemborg are quite different. It is spoken in the towns of Tiel, Culemborg, Buren, Geldermalsen, Wadenoijen, Ophemert, Waardenburg, Herwijnen, and Gorinchem. This is mostly a rural area, with a lot of livestock, fruit orchards, vegetables and greenhouses.

South Brabantian is a very divergent lect within Brabantian that is very hard for other Brabantian speakers, even those from nearby Antwerp Province, to understand (Anonymous January 2010). Therefore, it may well be a separate language. It is spoken in Brabant Province in Belgium and around the capital of Brussels. This area has retained the most extreme and archaic Brabantian features. It is under heavy pressure from Verkavelingsvlaams, especially in the cities and less so in the countryside.

The least intelligible variety for non-speakers seems to be spoken from Brussels west to the East Flanders border, especially in the rural areas and near the southern and western borders.

Brussels in the name for a group of South Brabantian lects that were traditionally spoken in Brussels, and still are by a small number of old people. In the past 200 years though, the language of the capital shifted to French. The remaining Brabantian speakers shifted to some form of Dutch, and many today speak some Dutch standard, usually VRT. At any rate, the original Brussels South Brabantian lects are now almost extinct and are spoken only by the older generation, most of whom are also bilingual in French.

Traditionally, Brussels lects were very diverse and were not intelligible with Antwerps or Leuvens South Brabantian from about 1650 on. Increasing French influence after the Eighty Years War which ended in 1648 resulted in a closing off of Brussels to most outside influence and increasing French influence on the Brussels lects. It was still the most widely used language in Brussels until the French occupation around 1800.

It then began to decline as more residents started speaking French. In part this was an urban elitist effect, as the local rural areas all spoke Brabantian dialects, and the city became increasingly French speaking, especially the upper class. To sum up, to speak French meant you sounded like an aristocrat, and to speak Brabantian meant you were talking like a farmer.

During the 1800’s there was a big debate in Brussels about which form of Dutch to make the official language – some common Flemish form or something more like Netherlands Dutch? People could not make up their minds, and this gave people one more reason to just speak French instead.

Brussels is almost extinct, and only some older Brusseliers speak it. Apparently no one else, including almost everyone in Brussels, can understand them. As Brussels is barely understood even in the city, clearly it must not be understood outside the city either. Hence, Brussels may be a separate language. But intelligibility data with the rest of South Brabantian would be nice to have.

Marols is a divergent Brussels dialect traditionally spoken in the colorful Marollen district, traditionally a poorer, rundown, working class area, that was recently full of drug dealers and bums but is now undergoing gentrification. Marols is a strange mixture of Spanish, Yiddish, Walloon and Brabantian. The Yiddish and Spanish is from many Spanish Republicans and Polish Jews moving to this district just before WW2. Marols is rarely heard these days, and intelligibility with the rest of Brussels is not known.

Liekert is a South Brabantian dialect spoken in Liedekerke, Belgium in Brabant Province on the border with East Flanders. It is unintelligible with the rest of even Flemish Brabantian, including Antwerps.

Leuvens or Leives is a South Brabantian dialect spoken in the city of Leuven in the Belgian region of Brabant. Many immigrants moved to the city after WW2, and use of the dialect reduced dramatically. Intelligibility between Leuvens and the rest of South Brabantian is not known.

Ninove is apparently a South Brabantian dialect spoken in the city of Ninove in the east of East Flanders. It is probably close to Liekert, and hence is very hard for even Flemish speakers to understand.

Elingen is a South Brabantian dialect spoken in the town of Elingen on the border with Hainaut Province. It is not intelligible at all with Brabantian proper (Anonymous January 2010).

Aalsters is a South Brabantian dialect that is very hard for even the Flemish to understand. It is spoken in the city of Aalst in East Flanders, Belgium, on the border of Brabant Province. It is also spoken in Opwijks, Asses and Tenants over the border in Brabant Province.

Tiens is a South Brabantian dialect spoken in Tienen in Eastern Brabant, Belgium. It has Limburgish tendencies. It is dying out and tends to be spoken more by the working classes, but is still pretty widely spoken. Intelligibility with the rest of South Brabantian is not known.

Afrikaans is a separate language, recognized by Ethnologue. It is spoken in South Africa by 13.2 million people, including 6.45 million native speakers and 6.75 million second language speakers. 12-16 million people have basic knowledge of the language.

A study noted that Dutch speakers have 59% intelligibility of Afrikaans (Gooskens 2005), while Afrikaans speakers have 51% intelligibility of Dutch. The combined intelligibility estimate is 55%, close to distance between Spanish and Portuguese. Afrikaans split off from Dutch in about 1675 when Dutch settlers began settling in South Africa. The first written Afrikaans is dated to 1795.

Zeelandic or Zeêuws is a separate language, recognized by Ethnologue as a different Low Franconian language from Dutch. Zeelandic is not easily understood by AN speakers. It is spoken in Zeeland Province and in South Holland Province on the island of Goeree-Overflakee. This area is south of Rotterdam. It is best thought of as transitional between Dutch and West Flemish.

There are a variety of dialects, Walcheren, Zuid-Beveland, and Goeree-Overflakee among others. Toward the north, Zeelandic looks more Hollandic or Dutch, and towards the south, it looks more Flemish. The dialects of Zeelandic Flanders are really outside of the definition of Zeelandic   and are best described as either East or West Flemish instead.

Although it is clearly a separate language from Dutch, Dutch nationalism mandates that it be seen as a dialect and not a separate language, hence the Dutch government refuses to recognize it as a separate language. The language is still in pretty good shape, though it is declining.

It still has 220,000 speakers. In some rural villages, up to 90% of the children still speak Zeelandic. The dialects of the larger cities are going extinct, yet Zeelandic is still in good shape in the rural areas. Surveys conducted in the 1990’s showed that 60% of residents of the area still spoke Zeelandic on an everyday basis. All Zeelandic dialects are intelligible with each other except South Beveland, which is a separate language. Intelligibility between Zeelandic and West Flemish is not known but may be high.

Along with French Flemish and West Flemish, Zeelandic is part of Southwest Low Franconian. These languages are said to be the remains of the oldest of Old Franconian.

Oostvoorns is a Zeelandic dialect spoken in the far north of the region that is actually spoken outside of Zeeland proper in the area called Oostverne just to the north. Some say that this dialect is actually Hollandic and not Zeelandic. It’s probably best seen as a transitional Zeelandic-Hollandic dialect. Intelligibility with AN is not known, but it’s probably better understood to AN speakers than the rest of Zeelandic.

Goerees is a Zeelandic dialect spoken in the Goeree region of Zeeland. The dialect of the fishing village of Ouddorp is quite different, with many unique words. It is quite a bit different from the rest of Zeelandic. This dialect is still widely spoken.

Flakkees is a Zeelandic dialect spoken in the region of Overflakee, east of Goeree. It is spoken in Ooltgensplaat, Middelharnis, and Sommelsdijk. Flakkees is divided into three subdialects – West Flakkees, East Flakkees, and Brabants Flakkees. Flakkees is still very widely spoken.

Schouwen-Duivelands is a Zeelandic dialect spoken in the Zeelandic region of Schouwen-Duivelands. In some places such as Bruinisse the dialect is in great shape, with 90% of youth even speaking it. In other places such as Burgh, Haamstede, and Zierikzee it is undergoing decline due to tourism.

Thools is a Zeelandic dialect spoken on the former island of Tholen is Zeeland. It is undergoing some decline due to widespread immigration but is still widely spoken. There is a sharp barrier between Thools and the North Brabantian area just to the east. The city of Oud Vesssemer speaks a mixed North Brabantian-Zeelandic dialect.

Walchers is a Zeelandic dialect spoken on the former island of Walcheren in Zeeland. It is spoken in the towns of Domburg, Westkapelle, Koudekerke, Arnemuiden and Oost Souburg. The dialect of the fishing village of Westkapelle is very different, with many unique words. In Westkapelle and Arnemuiden, the dialect is still doing very well. In other places it is under heavy pressure from tourism and immigration.

South Bevelands is a Zeelandic lect spoken in the Zuid Bevelands area of Zeeland. This area is still very rural, so the lect is in great shape. South Bevelands was scarcely touched by Hollandization during the Golden Age of Holland, hence its archaic character.

South Bevelands is extremely diverse, varying wildly from one village and town to the next to the point that communication is so seriously impaired that residents from different towns typically use AN to communicate rather than their town lects. On the face of it, it’s tempting to split off every town as a separate language, but that seems wild and threatens chaos, and until we get more data, it’s thankfully premature.

However, since South Bevelands is not even intelligible within itself, it can’t possibly be intelligible with the rest of Zeelandic, hence it may well be a separate language.

Land of Cadzands is a Zeelandic dialect spoken in the far south of the Netherlands in Zeelandic Flanders. It is properly seen as a Zeelandic dialect transitioning to West Flemish.

Dutch Low Saxon is a group of lects related to Dutch and German that are very hard to classify, especially in terms of their relationship with Low German in Germany and with Low Franconian (Macro-Dutch) in the Netherlands.

I originally put Dutch Low Saxon in with Low German and added it to my German reclassification. However, after thinking this over for a year now, I now believe that Dutch Low Saxon belongs much more in Macro-Dutch than in Macro-German. Nerbonne 1996 makes a convincing case that Dutch Low Saxon is more properly seen as Macro-Dutch than as Macro-German in a scientific paper analyzing Levenshtein distances between Dutch lects.

There is an argument floating around that all of Dutch Low Saxon is intelligible with all of German Low Saxon. This is certainly not true. Looking at Veluws to Schleswigsch, those two languages are not intelligible with each other at all.

Arguing against the notion of Dutch Low Saxon as being a Dutch dialect, many Dutch say that Dutch Low Saxon is not intelligible with Dutch. There is marginal intelligibility of around 90% between Dutch and Dutch Low Saxon (Zweers 2009), but sometimes it is much lower. And some Dutch Low Saxon lects, for instance Veluws and Groningen, are not fully intelligible with each other either (Smith 2008).

Dutch Low Saxon includes five languages with three main splits: Friso-Saxon, Westphalian Low Saxon, and Plautdietsch. Stellingwerfs and Urkers are separate languages inside Westphalian Low Saxon. All of Veluws is usually included in Dutch Low Saxon, but in this treatment, I put West Veluws in Low Franconian (Dutch) and East Veluws in Dutch Low Saxon. This is a reduction to five languages, down from Ethnologue‘s eight. I believe that all eight Ethnologue languages are recognized as minority languages of the Netherlands by the state.

What is difficult is dividing up Dutch Low Saxon into different languages. Ethnologue has gone too far, with proper Dutch Low Saxon divided into eight separate languages – Gronings, Veluws, Sallands, Drents, Stellingwerfs, Twents, Achterhoeks and Plautdietsch.

Friso-Saxon is a Dutch Low Saxon language spoken in Groningen that have all been heavily influenced by the East Frisian language. These lects are Gronings-East Frisian Low Saxon, Stellingwerfs, Westerkwartiers, Kollumerpompsters, Kollumerlands, Middaglands, Middle Westerkwartiers, South Westerkwartiers, Hogelandsters, Stadsgronings, Westerwolds, Veenkoloniaals and Oldambtsters. Probably none of these lects is fully intelligible with Westphalian Low Saxon, hence the split of Dutch Low Saxon into two main languages.

It is often stated that Friso-Saxon is intelligible with general Low Saxon across the board across the border in Germany. This is not true; it is only intelligible with East Frisian Low Saxon, which is not part of the greater German Low Saxon language and is instead simply another variety of Friso-Saxon. For instance, Gronings, Westerwolds, and Veenkoloniaals have only 57% intelligibility of Bremen Low Saxon in Germany (Gooskens 2009).

Friso-Saxon is broken into two dialects, Groningen (the Friso-Saxon spoken in the Netherlands), and East Frisian Low Saxon (the Friso-Saxon spoken in Germany), and one language, Stellingwerfs.

East Frisian Low Saxon is a Friso-Saxon dialect spoken in the East Frisian peninsula of northwestern Lower Saxony, Germany. This is best seen as Dutch Low Saxon spoken in Germany. It is intelligible with Gronings in the Netherlands. However, it has only 57% intelligibility with Bremen Low Saxon (Gooskens 2009). It has 230,000 speakers. There are still rural areas around here where the majority of people under age 40 speak the language. 50% of the population still speaks the dialect on a daily basis.

This dialect has an East Frisian substratum. There is dialectal diversity between the western and eastern branches. There are also speakers of this dialect in Iowa, about 500 of them, mostly over age 50. The classic variety of East Frisian Low Saxon probably looks something like this. Dialects include Hinte, Ems (Emsfriesisches), Weser (Weserfriesisches), Jeverländer, Harlingerländer, Ommelands and Mooringer.

Hintener is a divergent dialect of East Frisian Low Saxon, but intelligibility data with the rest of East Frisian Low Saxon is not known. It is spoken in the town of Hinte in Germany on the Dutch-German border. Hinte is spoken in Eastern Friesland (Ostfriesland) in Lower Saxony in Germany and Groningen is spoken on the Dutch side. It is somewhat similar to Twents.

The Gronings group is a group of Friso-Saxon dialects that are spoken in all of Groningen Province, some of Drenthe Province, and a bit of Friesland Province in far Northeastern Netherlands. It has 320,000 speakers. It has a heavy Old Frisian (East Frisian) substrate.

Along with Limburgish, it is the group spoken in the Netherlands farthest from Dutch. Yet Gronings is intelligible with East Frisian Low Saxon across the border in Germany. Gronings is very close to Drents, but it is far from Achterhoeks and Twents and is not fully intelligible with Stellingwerfs or Veluws.

Gronings appears to have good intelligibility of Drents (Felder 2015). Dutch speakers have 89-92% intelligibility of Gronings, but other Dutch speakers say that Gronings is often very hard to understand and sometimes they cannot understand anything at all (Felder 2015).

The original language of Groningen was Frisian, but there was a mass movement of Saxons from Drenthe to the area. They mostly settled in the city of Groningen, but then they radiated out from there. In addition, many East Frisian speakers came from across the border in Germany. This had to do with the reclamation of peat land in Groningen. The East Frisian language was supplanted by Low Saxon long ago, before the 1500’s. Traces of East Frisian still exist but only in morphology and syntax and not in phonology (Heeringa 2004).

Gronings consists of North Drents, Hogelandsters, Stadsgronings, Westerwolds, Westerkwartiers, Veenkoloniaals, and Oldambtsters.

Westerkwartiers is a group of Gronings dialects spoken in the far southwest of Groningen Province. This is sometimes listed as a Westphalian Low Saxon dialect, but it is much better seen as Friso-Saxon. This is the group of Gronings dialects that most resembles West Frisian. A good characterization of this group would be to say it is transitional from Gronings to West Frisian. The cities of Leek, Zuidhorn, and Marum speak this dialect. The group includes Kollumerpompsters, Kollumerlands, Middle Westerkwartiers, South Westerkwartiers and Middaglands.

Kollumerpompsters is a Westerkwartiers dialect spoken in the city of Kollumerpomp and the surrounding area in the far east of Friesland. The municipality of Kollum speaks this dialect.

Kollumerlands is a Westerkwartiers dialect spoken in Kollumerland and Nieuwkruisland, where it is also called Zuid-Lauwerslands. It is very similar to Kollumerpompsters with which it is sometimes confused, but is considered a different dialect because it is spoken outside of the Groningen region. To make things even more confusing, both Kollumerpompsters and Kollumerlands are spoken in the city of Kollumerpomp.

Oldambtsters-Reiderlands is a Gronings dialect spoken in a part of Groningen called Oldambt. It is related to Veenkoloniaals and Hogelandsters and has heavy Westphalian influence. Oldambtsters has a close relationship with the Rheiderlander dialect of East Frisian Low Saxon across the border in Germany; in fact, it is basically the same dialect. East Frisian was spoken here until 1400.

This dialect is steadily declining but holds out best in the rural areas. German is still widely spoken in this part of the Netherlands, especially in the city of Winschoten. It is spoken in Winschoten, Scheemda, Noordbroek, Heiligerlee, Beerta, and Nieuwe Schans.

Noordenvelds or North Drents is hard to analyze, but it is best analyzed as Gronings and not Drents proper. This dialect is close to Stadsgronings and is considered one of the harder forms of Groningen to understand. It is spoken in the north of Drenthe Province in the towns of Roden, Norg, Eelde, and Vries by 38,000 people. This is nearly the same speech as Stadsgronings (Felder 2015).

Stadsgronings is the Gronings dialect spoken in the city of Groningen itself. It is close to North Drents. The dialect is dying out in the city itself due to immigration of large numbers of students from outside the region who do not speak Gronings. It is considered one of the more difficult Gronings dialects for AN speakers to understand.

However, many people still speak Gronings in the city, and some are more or less Gronings monolinguals who do not speak ABN well. These tend to be people age 40+ (Felder 2015).

Veenkoloniaals is a Gronings dialect spoken in eastern Groningen on the border between Groningen and Drenthe Provinces and over the border into Drenthe. This dialect came into being due to peat mining in the area. In recent years it has been expanding a lot, probably because it is closer to AN than neighboring lects.

It is is a Gronings dialect that is close to Drents but even closer to Stellingwerfs. Veenkoloniaals lacks full intelligibility with Dutch. Veenkoloniaals is quite close to Stadsgronings and almost sounds like the same lect. There are a few differences between the two. This is a harder Gronings that is even harder for ABN speakers to understand than Stadsgronings (Felder 2015).

Westerwolds is another Gronings dialect, that, like Veenkoloniaals, is spoken in eastern Groningen. Westerwolds is not fully intelligible with Dutch and has heavy influence from East Frisian Low Saxon spoken in Germany. Although it is Friso-Saxon, it is closer to Westphalian than to Frisian. It has a particularly close relationship to Ems Low Saxon spoken in Germany.

Lately it has been losing ground to Veenkoloniaals. It is spoken in a small corner of far southeast Groningen on the German border in the towns of Stadskanaal, Musselkanaal, Ter Appelkanaal, Ter Appel, and Vledderveen. ABN speakers say that this is an extremely hard form of Gronings that is very hard to understand, even harder to understand than Veenkoloniaals (Felder 2015).

Hogelandsters is a Gronings dialect spoken in the far north of Groningen in a region called Hogeland. This is said to be the “purest” Gronings of all, and it is the hardest for AN speakers to understand. The cities of Leens, Ulrum, Baflo, Uithuizen, Bedum, Winsum, Loppersum and Uithuizermeeden are located in this region.

Stellingwerfs is often said to be a Westphalian Low Saxon language, but it is better interpreted as a Friso-Saxon language spoken in the municipalities of Weststellingwerfs and Oststellingwerfs in southeastern Friesland Province on the border with Drenthe and Overijssel Provinces and over the border into Drenthe and Overijssel.

It is spoken in towns such as Appelscha, Noordwolde, Tjalleberd, Luinjeberd, Donkerbroek, St. Johannesga, Rotsterhaule, Rotstergaast, Delfstrahuizen, Uffelte, Diever, Vledder, Echten, Steenwijk, Giethoorn, Tuk, Willemsoord, Oldemarkt, Kuinre, Smilde, Wolvega, Oldeberkoop, Oldeholtpa, Nijeholtpa, Dwingeloo, and Oosterzee.

Frisian speakers moved into the formerly Drents-speaking area when peat-digging began. This began the process of Frisianization. Stellingwerfs is not usually put into Friso-Saxon, but Heeringa 2004 makes a good case for putting it into Friso-Saxon (Fig. 4, p. 97).

One way to look at Stellingwerfs is to see it as a Drents variety intermixed strongly with a Frisian layer (Heeringa 2004). The process of Frisianization began as early as the 1200’s. Stellingwerfs probably has over 300,000 speakers in two dialects, East Stellingwerfs and West Stellingwerfs. Stellingwerfs is not close to Gronings, Drents, Twents, or Achterhoeks, and it is not fully intelligible with Dutch nor with Veluws.

Westphalian Dutch Low Saxon is a language that is part of Dutch Low Saxon. It contains two splits, Westphalian Low Saxon Proper or Twents and Gelders-Oaveriessels. Within Gelders-Oaveriessels, there is one language, Urkers, and four dialects, Achterhoeks, East Veluws, Twents, and Sallands.

It is heavily Germanized and collates with the Westphalian Low German spoken across the border in Germany.

Drents is the only Westphalian Low Saxon lect that it is not a part of Gelders-Overijssels. It has over 240,000 speakers in in Drenthe Province, where it is spoken by about 1/2 the population, and it also has some speakers in Overijssel. In towns like Zuidwolde, the majority of people even aged 30-40 continue to speak Drents as the main everyday language.

Every town and village has its own dialect. Drents is quite far from Achterhoeks and Stellingwerfs, but it is very close to Gronings and intelligible with Twents. Drents is not intelligible with Dutch.

It is spoken in Assen, Rolde, Geiten, Annen, Anlo, Eext, Klooverstervee, Gasselte, Borger, Grollo, Buinem, Elp, Amen, Beilen, Odoorn, Schoonloo, Hijken, Emmen, Valthermond, Zoordsleen, Sleen, Hoogeveen, Noordbarge, Dalen, Coevorden, Schoonebeek, Eursinge, Zuidwolde, Nieuw Amsterdam, Klazienaveen, Nieuw Schoonebeek, Zwartemeer, De Krim, Linde, Staphorst, Ruinen, Balkbrug, Meppel, Dedemsvaart, Rouveen, Den Hulst, and Havelte.

Gelders-Oaveriessels is a dialect group within Westphalian Low Saxon. It includes four dialects: Achterhoeks, East Veluws, Twents, and Sallands, and one language, Urkers. This group is also sometimes called West Dutch Low Saxon. This group has heavier Dutch (Low Franconian) influence than the rest of Dutch Low Saxon. The Dutch influence is primarily an archaic version of Hollandic from the 1600’s.

Twents is a Gelders-Oaveriessels dialect with 328,000 speakers, or 62% of the population of Twents, a region in Overijssel.

Every town has its own dialect, but all dialects are mutually intelligible. Twents is not close to Stellingwerfs or Gronings, but it is intelligible with Drents, Sallands, Achterhoeks, (ter Denge 2009) and East Veluws. Based on linguistic distance (Fig. 3) it may not be intelligible with Groningen.

In the northwest of the Twents region, there is a transitional Sallands-Twents dialect that has a largely Twents vocabulary with a Sallands inflection. In the towns of Rijssen and Enter, there is a variety of Twents spoken that uses diphthongs where other varieties have monophthongs.

This may be a remnant of an earlier Westphalian variety that may have been generalized throughout the Twents region. On the border with the Achterhoeks region, there is no clear dialect border, as Twents and Achterhoeks slide into each other (ter Denge 2009). Many Dutch speakers find Twents unintelligible. Twents is one of the most divergent of all of the Dutch Low Saxon lects from AN, especially the dialects spoken in Vriezenzeen, Rijssen and Wierden.

Twents is spoken in the towns of Vriezenveen, Almelo, Rijssen, Hengelo, Borne, Enschede, Oldenzaal, Tubbergen, Ootmarsum, Weerselo, Reutum, Denekamp, Deurningen, Losser, Lonneker, Glanerbrug, Usselo, Boekelo, Haaksenbergen, Diepenheim, Goor, Delden, Markelo and Wierden.

Vriezenveens is part of the Twents spectrum, but it is considered separate from Twents due to a particularly strong Westphalian Low German from across the border  in Macro-German.

Urkers is a very divergent Gelders-Oaveriessels language. It is spoken in the small city of Urks, formerly an island in the Zeelandic Sea. It is a very conservative Protestant town with no less than 17 churches, where 97% of the population goes to church every week for about three hours a day. Women marry young, and cohabitation is unheard of.

Urkers is utterly incomprehensible to AN speakers, and on structural and intelligibility grounds, there is justification for making it a separate language. Further, a linguistic analysis based on Levenshtein distance suggests that Urkers is best analyzed as a separate language in its own right, apart from all other Dutch lects (Heeringa 2004).

East Veluws is a Gelders-Overijssels dialect spoken in the Veluwe, a formerly heavily forested and swampy region along a ridge in northern Gelderland Province. This region has a lot of wildlife and used to be very popular with hunters. There are proposals to turn much of this region into a national park.

Although it is a part of Dutch Low Saxon, Veluws is marginal within this family (Smith 2009), with West Veluws looking a lot like Low Franconian (“Dutch”) proper, and East Veluws looking more like a typical Dutch Low Saxon.

West Veluws and East Veluws can understand each other, and East Veluws and Twents are mutually intelligible. East Veluws is more intelligible with Dutch than any other type of Low Saxon, probably due to its close connection to West Veluws, a Low Franconian lect; however, East Veluws tends to have marginal intelligibility with AN.

Veluws is one of the lects where Low Saxon and Low Franconian are very close, similar to Gronings and East Frisian Low Saxon, except that Veluws in closer to Low Franconian, and Gronings is closer to Low Saxon. Nevertheless, Veluws is not fully intelligible with Stellingwerfs or Gronings. There are probably 300,000 speakers of all varieties of Veluws, but there are fewer Veluws speakers than speakers of Gronings, Stellingwerfs and Twents.

East Veluws is spoken in the towns of Apeldoorn, Doernspijk, Oldebroek, Elberg, Hattem, Heerde, Epe, Ernst, Vaasen, Het Loo, Twello, Gorssel, Brummen, Doesburg, Eerbeek, and Dieren.

Sallands is a Gelders-Overijssels dialect spoken in the Salland region in the western part of Overijssel Province. Sallands has fewer than 300,000 speakers. Sallands lacks full intelligibility with Dutch but is intelligible with Twents. Based on linguistic distance (Fig. 3) it may not be intelligible with Gronings. There is a transitional Sallands-Twents dialect spoken on the border with the northwest of the Twents-speaking area (ter Denge 2009). There is a lot of variability in Sallands.

Sallands is spoken in Zwolle, Zutphen, Nijverdal, Vroomshoop, Kloosterhaar, Marienberg, Hardenberg, Gramsbelgen, Lutten, Heemse, Witharen, Ommen, Oudleusen, Den Ham, Vilsteren, Dalfsen, Kampen, Heino, Lemereveld, Ittersum, Wijhe, Windesheim, Heeten, Olst, Espelo, Holten, Wesepe, Diepenveen, Lettele, Deventer, Bathmen, Genemuiden, Zwartsluis, and Blokzijl.

Zwols is a Sallands dialect spoken in Zwolle, the capital of Overijssel Province. It has some similarities to Urkers nearby. 61% of the population still speaks Zwols. Nowadays, it is mostly spoken in the older districts. It contains many colorful slang expressions.

Dêmpters is the name of the Sallands dialect spoken in Deventer.

Zutphens is a transitional Achterhoeks-Sallands dialect that is spoken in Zutphen, a city in Gelderland. It is interesting because it has many Hollands features. Zutphens is still very heavily spoken by the population of the city.

Achterhoeks is a Gelders-Overijssels dialect. Achterhoeks is far from Drents and Stellingwerfs but is intelligible with Twents (ter Denge 2009). Based on linguistic distance (Fig. 3) it may not be intelligible with Gronings. Achterhoeks is not intelligible with Dutch. Achterhoeks is in very good shape, and is widely used as an everyday language.

Achterhoeks is spoken in Northern Gelderland east of East Veluws in towns such as Doetinchem, Terborg, Silvolde, Ulft, Dinxperlo, Alten, Winterswijk, Meddo, Groenle, Lichtenvoorde, Eibergen, Neede, Borculo, Ruunlo, Zelhem, Hengelo, Lochem, Laren, Almen and Vorden. Interestingly, Achterhoeks speakers in Dinxperlo can communicate with speakers of Westphalian German Low Saxon in Suderwick, Germany, across the border.

Plautdietsch is a Dutch Low Saxon language that originated in the Netherlands, but then spread to other parts of the world. It forms a subgroup of its own and is quite divergent from the rest of Dutch Low Saxon. It is not intelligible with many other Low German languages, Standard German, or Pennsylvania German. Plautdietsch has 50% intelligibility with Hutterite German.

This language was originally a Friesland Dutch Low Saxon lect, but they moved to Prussia after they were persecuted for their religion, and later they moved to the US. This is the language of the Mennonites worldwide.

Flemish or Vlaams is a separate language, recognized as such by Ethnologue. Flemish has anywhere from 30% (Zweers 2009) to 66% (Van Bezooijen 1999) intelligibility with AN. However, it is more complicated than that, for in truth, Flemish is more than one language. The primary split is between West Flemish and East Flemish. It’s now widely acknowledged by most that West Flemish and East Flemish are not completely mutually intelligible.

Hinrichs undated makes a strong case for the inclusion of Flemish as a recognized regional language in section III of the European Charter for Regional or Minority Languages based on linguistic distance to AN. The distance between Flemish and AN is as great as between Low Saxon and Dutch, and Low Saxon is recognized.

West Flemish or West Vlaams is a highly divergent Low Franconian language that, along with French Flemish and Zeelandic, is part of Southwest Low Franconian and is the closest to the original Old Franconian.

This group of languages is interesting because they have retained features of Ingvaeonic or North Sea Germanic features. Ingvaeonic is the postulated language that gave birth to Old English, Old Saxon and Old Frisian, possibly 2,000 YBP. It was spoken what is now the Netherlands, northwest Germany and Denmark. There are also influences from langues d’oil, not so much French proper as Picard, which is spoken adjacent to the West Flemish region.

West Flemish is spoken in Zeelandic Flanders in the Netherlands, West Flanders Province in Belgium and French Flanders in Nord Province in France (see map Fig. 1). East Flemish speakers have a hard time understanding West Flemish, especially the variety spoken in France.

For example, West Flemish speakers regularly get subtitles on Belgian TV. Studies have shown that speakers of Antwerp East Flemish cannot understand the West Flemish of Oostende, Diksmuide, or Kortrijk, cities in West Flanders Province (De Houwer 2008).

West Flemish has 1 million regular speakers in West Flanders in Belgium and 70,000 in Zeelandic Flanders for a total of 1.07 million speakers. It also has a few speakers in Flemish Zeeland in the Netherlands.

Brugs is a West Flemish dialect spoken in and around the city of Bruges. It is quite divergent from other West Flemish dialects and even other Flemish find it hard to understand. However, precise intelligibility with West Flemish and not Flemish per se (whatever that means) is needed before we can determine whether or not it is a separate language. Brugs is declining in recent days and is being replaced with a more widely spoken Flemish, possibly VT.

Kortrijks is a West Flemish dialect spoken in the city of Kortrijk in the southeast of West Flanders. It is also spoken in the towns of Kuurne, Wevelgem, Ledegem, Moorslede, Muelebeke, Tiens, and Izegem. Past Tiens, it starts turning into the Brugs dialect. Past Moorslede, it starts turning into the Ypres dialect.

Ypres is a South Flanders dialect spoken in and around the city of Ypres in the south of West Flanders. It is different from Kortrijks.

Waregems is a dialect spoken in the West Flanders city of Waregem. It is different from Kortrijks and is unique in some ways. It is best seen as a West Flanders dialect heading out towards the East Flanders language. There is an entire area on the border between West Flanders and East Flanders where the dialects may be hard to characters as belonging to either the West Flanders or East Flanders languages. There is a suggestion that only those from the immediate area can understand Waregems well, but until we get better data, it is premature to split it.

Vlaemsch or French West Flemish is a highly divergent West Flemish lect spoken in France that has been diverging from the rest of West Flemish for over 300 years since Louis XIV annexed it to France around 1680. Vlaemsch is full of French loan words, and other West Flemish speakers (such as Oostende West Flemish speakers) have a hard time understanding it, so it is probably a separate language.

Though it is recognized by the French government as a minority language (as “Dutch”), it gets no support from them and has been declining for centuries. It has 60,000 speakers, 20,000 of whom use it every day. The vast majority of Vlaemsch speakers are over age 60. Vlaemsch will probably go extinct in a matter of decades.

East Flemish or East Vlaams is a separate language spoken mostly in East Flanders in Belgium but also in Zeelandic Flanders in the Netherlands. It is not intelligible with AN. For example, the East Flemish speakers in Zeelandic Flanders have a hard time understanding the Brabantian Dutch speakers across the Schelde River. Also, East Flemish speakers have a hard time understanding West Flemish.

West Flemish speakers moving to Ghent in large numbers have created so many problems that the city council took action against them for “speaking a language that no one could understand,” that is, West Flemish.

Not only is East Flemish a separate language, but there is tremendous dialect diversity inside of East Flanders. In fact, it appears that East Flanders is more than one language. East Flemish probably has about 1.1 million speakers, almost all in Belgium, but that figure may be inflated. The true number of speakers is hard to determine. There are 1.4 million residents in the area, but they cannot all speak East Flemish.

Gents is a highly divergent East Flemish lect spoken in Ghent, Belgium that appears to be a separate language. It is considered very hard to understand even by other East Flemish speakers, so it may be a separate language. To South Brabantian speakers, it may as well be Greek.

In fact, there are two different dialects of Gents, one on the west side of the city and another on the east side. In addition, the dialects of the villages around Ghent are also said to be different from Gents itself. Intelligibility data for the various dialects in and around Ghent is not known. This language has many features of a “language island,” in that it differs markedly from surrounding East Flemish lects. Gents has a strong French influence and many French loans.

Dendermonds is another highly divergent East Flemish lect spoken in the city of Dendermode. Studies indicate that other East Flemish speakers have a hard time understanding it (De Houwer 2008), so it may well be a separate language. Dendermode is about 1/2 way between Antwerp and Ghent. This language has heavy Brabantian influence, and that is why it is so different from the rest of East Flemish.

Lokers is an East Flemish dialect spoken in the city of Lokeren in the northeast of East Flanders on the border with Brabantian. Here East Flemish is transitioning to a group of Brabantian dialects called Wase, spoken in the Waseland. This dialect may be close to Dendermonds.

Limburgish is an East Low Franconian language that is spoken in the Netherlands and Belgium. It is a separate language and is not intelligible with other forms of Low Franconian nor with any Low German. As a part of Meuse-Rhenish, it is transitional between Low Franconian (Dutch) and Low German (German).

Limburgish and Dutch had very different geneses – Limburgish came from Old East Low Franconian, and Dutch came from Old West Low Franconian. It has 1.6 million speakers. Each village and city has its own dialect, but they are all mutually intelligible. There are as many as 580 different Limburgish dialects.

Although Limburgish is said to be intelligible with Ripuarian, the truth is that it is not inherently intelligible with it. There are however some Limburgish and Ripuarian dialects on the borders of the two that are transitional between Ripuarian and Limburgish. See the South Guelderish and the Low Dietsch entries here for more on those transitional languages.

Limburgish is one of the Meuse-Rhenish languages. It is often claimed that Limburgish is intelligible with German, but this is not so. The intelligibility situation with regard to Limburgish and AN is confusing.  Some say that Limburgish has marginal intelligibility with AN (Zweers 2009), but other Dutch speakers say that they can barely understand a word of Limburgish. A study concluded that Dutch speakers have about 89% intelligibility of Limburgish.

The real pure Limburgish is not intelligible with Standard Dutch at all, but what is most often spoken nowadays is a sort of a Dutch-Limburgish mixed language that is intelligible to most AN speakers. However, there are still some speakers of the real pure Limburgish around.

This Wikipedia article on Limburgish is wrong. It groups all of Bergish, South Guelderish, Southeast Limburgish and Dutch Limburgish into one “variety” or dialect, and then refuses to call that variety a language.

However, “Limburgish” is composed of at least four languages. Bergish is a separate language, not intelligible with Southeast Limburgish (60% intelligibility), South Guelderish, or Dutch Limburgish. Neither is Southeast Limburgish intelligible with Limburgish. And Venlo may well be a separate language all of its own.

Geleens is an East Limburgish dialect that is spoken in the city of Geleen in Limburg Province in the Netherlands. It differs quite a bit from the dialect of Sittard, even though the two cities have recently merged.

Sittards or Zittesj is an East Limburgish dialect that is spoken in Sittard in Limburg Province, the Netherlands. It’s quite different from Geleens. It is closest to dialects right across the German border, but otherwise it is a transitional Middle Limburgish-South Limburgish dialect, similar to Roermond.

Hasselts or Hessels is a Limburgish dialect spoken in Hasselt in Belgian Limburg. Dialect leveling has been occurring in the past 50 years as rural residents of the surrounding villages moved to Hasselt. It is best analyzed as a Belgian Limburgish dialect transitional with Brabantian.

Maastrichts is a Limburgish dialect spoken in the city of Maastricht in Dutch Limburg. It has 60,000 speakers and hence is the largest Limburgish dialect. It is still widely spoken in the city. Maastrichts differs significantly from the dialects of the neighboring villages.

Horsters is the Limburgish dialect spoken in the city of Horst in Dutch Limburg. Some say that everything north of Venlo is outside of Limburgish proper and into South Guelderish. That’s an interesting argument, but we will leave it in Limburgish for now, especially since Limburgish isoglosses extend to just north of Horst. Some see it as transitional between Limburgish and South Guelderish, Kleverlandish and North Limburgish.

Tegels is is a Limburgish dialect spoken in the city of Tegelen in Dutch Limburg. Although it is very close to Venlo, Tegels speaks a typical Limburgish dialect, while Venlo is North Limburgish and is probably a separate language altogether.

They are so different because Tegelen was ruled by the Duchy of Gulik for 750 years, while Venlo was under the Duchy of Gelders for 400 years. The Duchys did not end their rule of both cities until around 1800 or so. Tegelen did not go to the Netherlands until 1817, when it was traded to Netherlands from Germany in exchange for the Dutch city of Henzogenrath, which was traded to Germany.

Weerts or Wieërts is a Limburgish dialect spoken in the city of Weert in Dutch Limburg. It is a Middle Limburgish dialect. Weerts, together with another Limburgish dialect spoken in Hamont in Belgian Limburg and a dialect of Bavarian, has more vowels than any other lect on Earth – 28. The area around Weerts has many forests, sand dunes, bogs, and marshes. This part of the Netherlands is also very Catholic. In the far north, it tends to be a lot more Protestant.

Hamont is a Limburgish dialect spoken in Hamont, on the border with the Netherlands in Belgian Limburg.

South Low Franconian is the name for a lect spoken in Germany just east of the Limburgs Province in the Netherlands. Dialects include Jlabbacher Platt of central Mönchengladbach, Föschelner Platt of Fischeln in Krefeld, and Dremmener Platt of Dremmen near Heinsberg. The intelligibility of these German lects with the rest of Meuse-Rhenish is unclear, and it may be a separate language altogether. The closest in intelligibility would be to Bergish, Venlo, and Southeast Limburgish in that order.

Southeast Limburgish (SE Limburgish) is a East Low Franconian language made up of a number of dialects that are transitional between Limburgish and Ripuarian. It has a close relationship with Limburgish. Some call the SE Limburgish-Low Dietsch languages an alternate name – Limburgish-Ripuarian of the Three Countries Area.

Some classifications put this language into Ripaurian, but it is possibly better analyzed as Limburgish or better yet Ripuarian-Limburgish transitional. The classification is important since if it is Ripaurian, this language is “German,” and if it is Limburgish, it is “Dutch.” But if we see it as Ripuarian-Limburgish transitional, this language may most properly be characterized as a Dutch-German transitional lect.

It is spoken in Belgium around Eupen, including Welkenraedt, Lontzen, Raeren, La Calamine, Eynatten, Gemmenich, and Moresnet; in the Netherlands between Ubach and Brunssum in the towns of Kerkrade, Bocholtz and Vaals, where it is known as Waals; and in a large area in North Rhine-Westphalia between the cities of Aachen and Eschweiler in the towns of Stolberg, Wurselen, Eilendorf and Kohlscheid.

It is a separate language, unintelligible to those outside the region. Most if not all Southeast Limburgish lects appear to be intelligible with each other (Tulipan 2013).

Bocholtzer is a SE Limburgish dialect spoken in the towns of Bocholtz, Bocholtzerheide, and Baneheide in Limburg Province. It is still very widely spoken in the area. Intelligibility is about 90% with Stolberg German (Tulipan 2013).

Aachen German or Aachener Platt is a SE Limburgish dialect spoken in this same general region in Aachen, North Rhine-Westphalia on the border with Belgium. Aachen German has 60% intelligibility with Bergish, the form of Limburgish spoken across the border (Harms 2009). The common notion is that Aachen German and Bergish are the same language. Since they are not intelligible, this is not the case.

Intelligibility with Stolberg German is excellent (Tulipan 2013). Aachen German intelligibility with Ripaurian is variable, but averages 40% (Köhler 2015). Aachen German has 50% with Dürener Platt, 30% intelligibility with Kolsch, and 25% with Eupener Platt.

Stolberg German is a SE Limburgish dialect spoken in Stolberg, Germany, near Aachen. It is intelligible with Aachen German, though it has more Ripuarian influences. and 90% intelligibility with Kirchröadsj, Vaals, etc. Other than with Kirchröadsj and Vaals, etc. intelligibility is not good with the rest of the lects spoken in the Netherlands, including Limburgish proper. Stolberg German is still widely spoken (Tulipan 2013).

Kirchröadsj is a SE Limburgish dialect spoken in Kerkrade in the Netherlands. It is often put into Ripuarian, but we will put it in SE Limburgish instead. Kirchröadsj is not fully intelligible with Kölsch. But it along with Vaals and related lects is about 90% intelligible with Stolberg German (Tulipan 2013).

To the east over by Duren (Dürener Platt), we start moving into Ripuarian proper. It is also spoken in the far upper Eifel region around the Hurtgen Forest (Tulipan 2013).

South Guelderish/Kleverlandish is a Low Franconian language consisting of South Guelderish spoken in Netherlands and and Kleverlandish spoken in Germany. It is part of Meuse-Rhenish, and hence is transitional between Low Franconian (Dutch) and Low German (German).

Dialects include Rheden, Cleves (Kleve, Kleef), Oberhausen, Essen-Werder, Venlo, Venray, Liemers, Cuijk, Groesbeek and Zevenaar, and also the dialects of Northern Limburgish. The Cuijk dialect is typical. South Guelderish has a very heavy Frisian substratum. Based on its distance to AN alone (see Fig. 3) it must have difficult intelligibility with AN, probably along the lines of Zeelandic.

Overbetuws is a South Guelderish dialect spoken in the Upper Betuws region of Gelderland. Cities in this area include Valberg, Elst and Zetten. It was widely spoken until recently, when it began to decline. It is similar to Liemers.

Liemers is a South Guelderish dialect that is spoken in the Liemers region in the far east of Gelderland east of Arnhem to the German border. It is spoken in the towns of Didam, Zevenaar, Lobith, and Wehl. This dialect is basically South Guelderish transitional to Achterhoeks Low Saxon.

Kleverlandish is South Guelderish spoken in Germany along the border with the Netherlands. Kleverlandish lects are quite a bit different from South Gulderish, but intelligibility data is lacking. It is spoken southeast of Munster along the border with the Netherlands and north of Cologne in North Rhine-Westphalia.

Kleverlandish is not intelligible with Bergish (Harms 2009), as one is an analogue of North Limburgish and the other an analogue of South Limburgish. Kleverlandish is incomprehensible to most Dutch speakers. It is still widely spoken in Wesels, Germany, at least by the older generation (Anonymous 2009).

Venloos or Venlo is an extremely divergent Dutch lect spoken in the city of Venlo in the center of Limburg Province. In the north of Limburg, Limburgish is no longer spoken, and the lect changes to more of a Gulderish/Brabantian type which is called Venloos.

Venloos is interesting because it is so different. It seems to be transitional between Limburgish, Ripuarian German, and Gulderish/Brabantian. On purely structural grounds, there are suggestions that it is a separate language. In the linguistic literature, statements are made to the effect, “If Limburgish is a separate language, then Venloos must surely be also.”

Venloos is regarded as particularly incomprehensible by many AN speakers, much more so than Limburgish. Venloos may well be a separate language, as it appears to be poorly understood outside of the Venlo region. Venloos is still very widely spoken in Venlo, even by young people. The Heinisch dialects next to the Dutch border in Viersen (Viersener Platt), Breyell (Breyellsch Platt), and Grefrath (Jriefrother Platt) are intelligible with Venloos.

Low Dietsch is a lect, often thought to be a SE Limburgish dialect, that is made up of a number of subdialects that are transitional between Limburgish and Ripuarian. However, Low Dietsch is better seen as a separate language because intelligibility with Southeast Limburgs is poor (Köhler 2015). When people say that Limburgish and Ripuarian are mutually intelligible, what they mean is that there are languages like Low Dietsch and Southeast Limburgish that are transitional between Limburgish and Ripuarian.

Around Eupen a Low Dietsch dialect called Eupener Platt (Eupen German) is spoken. Eupener Platt has only 25% intelligibility with Aachen German. Aachen Platt speakers say that Eupener sounds funny, like a mixture of Platt, French, and English (Köhler 2015). Intelligibility is difficult with Stolberg German (Tulipan 2013).

Low Dietsch has been slowly dying out for a long time, since World War 1, almost a century, and it is not spoken much anymore. However, in recent years it is undergoing a Renaissance, and it is now being spoken more, even by young people, who seem to be spearheading the resurgence (Tulipan 2013). Eupener Platt has high but not full intelligibility with Kolsch (~70%) and the Middle Limburgish spoken in Heeren.

The following is an example of Eupener Platt.


De Ammerekaaner
By Siegfried Theissen

Wi de Ammerekaaner no Öëpe koëmte – iich gelöüf, et woër veerenvärrtech off voëvenvärrtech – wonnde ver ä gene Wéërt. Wi ver no hoërte dat-te Ammerekaaner ä gene Hollefter, a ge Schokkelaates, en gruëte Käüche oppgemaakt hoë, léïpe véër Kaïnder dahään, waïl aïnder es fertaut hoë, dadd-et ta Panneköük ömmesöss güëf. Änn taatsächlech, jédderéïne kräch esuvoël Panneköük, wi-e draage koss!

Änn véër Kaïnder krächte ouch noch en Taafel Schokkelaat, gätt watt fer allt lang neet mië geséë hoë. Dé Schokkelaat woër esu schwarrt wi di ammerekaanesche Köch.

Di Schwarrte doschde suwisuë märr Dénnsmättje schpéële! Obb-ene gouwe Daach gäng derr Vadder métt, änn éïne van di Schwarrte, dé gätt Döttsch koss, waïl-e e gannts Joër bi de Döttsche gevange gewässt woër, vrodde ann derr Vadder, off-e neet föël Gaïlt ferdeene wöül. Derr Vadder woër natüürlech mésstrouwesch änn saat: “Watt möss-ech da davöër doë?”

“Véër Schwarrte, saat-é Schwarrte, wäärde van de wétte Offtséëre esuë schléët behaïndelt, ver wäärde ouch esuë schléët betallt, dadd-iich nou oug ens gätt ferdéïne wéll!Iich hann ene ganntse Kammjong voll Tsigerätte geklaut, änn dé wéll ech nou vöër voëvduusent Frang verkoupe. Et möss waal hü noch séë, waïl möëre wäärde ver versatt!”

Derr Vadder ho jo di voëvduusent Frang geschpaart, mä e saat, e möss terösch métt sinn Vro drövver kalle.De Modder saat: “Dat-tönnt fer! Esunne Kammjong Tsigerätte éss en Milljuën wäärt! Di Tsigerätte verkloppe ver ä Oëke, änn dé Kammjong wäärt fer béï ene Buër kwiit.” Mä derr Vadder woër te bang. E woss neet, wu e dé Kammjong aunderschtélle köss, änn-e saat ouch: “Wänn de Ammerekaaner es schnappe, da schéëte di es, of-fer koëme joërelang ä gene Topp.”

Do saat-e Modder: “No hä ver ens Milljonäär wäärde könne, änn no hass-tou géïn Kuraasch!” Mä derr Vadder saat märr: “Dou haas-tech förrege Wéëk allt genoch gelaïst!”

Iich woss néït, watt-e damétt maïnt, änn do vertaut de Modder: “Ä gen Gosspertschtroët sönnd ouch Ammerekaaner änne su Huus, änn jéddesch Kiër wi ech da verbéïkoëmt,” vrodde esunne Schwarrte: “No Cognac? I give Cigarettes and Chocolate for Cognac!” Iich ho allt lang géïne Konnjakk mië, mä ech ho waal noch en léëch Konnjakkflaïsch, médd-et Étikätt änn dréï Schtääre dropp.

Iich di Bubbel voll Tië gedoë, derr Schtopp dropp, alles fië togepläkkt änn no di Ammerekaaner. Wi di di Flaïsch soëge, paggde di mech en Schtang Tsigerätte änn dréï Taafele Schokkelaat änn en Tüüt, änn ië di di Flaïsch oppmaake kosste, léïp iich ewäkk, datt mech de Vokke vloëge. Wänn di mech kréëge häë, di häë miich kaut gemakkt! Mä saïtämm bänn ech neet mië dörrech gen Gosspertschtroët gegange!“

Hôessëlts is a Low Dietsch dialect spoken in Belgian Limburg in the small city of Hoeselt. It’s dying out, but a dictionary of it was recently published.

Neiderrbergisch is a form of Low Rhenish that is analogous to Limburgish. This is Limburgish spoken on the other side of the border in Germany, but the variety in Germany is a separate language.

Neiderrbergisch is split into Bergish and Ostbergisch or East Bergisch. However, they appear to be mutually intelligible, so they are dialects of a single language (Harms 2009).

Ostbergisch or East Bergisch is spoken around Mülheim an der Ruhr, Saarn, and Gummersbach. Gummersbach is a dialect of this language. All dialects are intelligible with Düsseldorver Platt Bergish (Harms 2009). Ostbergisch has a close relationship with the Sallands Gelders-Overijssels Dutch Low Saxon dialect spoken in Zutphen, however, the two are not completely intelligible (Harms 2009). Dialects include Duisburg and Wuppertal.

Mülheim an der Ruhr is the classic form of Ostbergisch spoken in Mülheim an der Ruhr, Nordrhein-Westfalen (North Rhine-Westphalia), Germany. It is quite different, but it is still intelligible with the other dialects (Harms 2009).

Saarn Mülheim an der Ruhr is spoken in the Saarn District of Mülheim an der Ruhr, Nordrhein-Westfalen (North Rhine-Westphalia), Germany, but it differs considerably from the standard version of Ostbergisch. Nevertheless, it is fully intelligible with the other dialects (Harms 2009).

Bergish is one of two high level splits in Neiderrbergisch. It is definitely not intelligible with Cleves Kleverlandish (Harms 2009). This language is based on Low Rhenish but has acquired a heavy Ripuarian layer such that speakers feel that their speech somewhat resembles the Ripuarian language Kölsch, which is nearby (Harms 2009).

There are various dialects of this language, including Krieewelsch, spoken in Central Kresweld, Ödingsch of Uerdingen, Metmannsch Platt of Mettmann, Düsseldorver Platt of Northern and Central Düsseldorf, Vogteier, spoken in Nieukerk, Solinger Platt of Solingen, Remscheder Platt of Remscheid, Rotinger Platt of Ratingen, and Wülfrother Platt of Wülfrath, which is located between Düsseldorf and Wuppertal. Solinger Platt, Krieewelsch and Wülfrother Platt are all mutually intelligible (Harms 2009). It is also spoke in Neuss, Remscheid, Mochengladbach, and Heinsberg.

Düsseldorver Platt is intelligible with Ostbergisch but not with South Guelderish, Limburgish, or Aachen German. Düsseldorver Platt has 60% intelligibility with Aachen German. Düsseldorver Platt is not fully intelligible with any of the various lects spoken in the Netherlands (Harms 2009).

Düsseldorver Platt is mostly only spoken by older people these days, who nevertheless keep it very well alive. Middle-aged people have passive competence, but often not active competence, and young people may lack either, though some can understand it (Harms 2009).

Solinger Platt is a form of Bergish spoken in Solingen, North Rhine-Westphalia, Germany. The link leads to a description of it and a transcription of a short story in the dialect. It is fully intelligible with Düsseldorver Platt (Harms 2009).


Anonymous. Wesels Kleverlandish native speaker. Wesels, Germany. Personal communication. July 2009.

Anonymous. Antwerps, AN and Verkavelingsvlaams speaker. Antwerp, Belgium. Personal communication. January 2010.

Berns, J.B. 1991. “De Kaart van de Nederlandse Dialecten”, in Herman Crompvoets and Ad Dams, eds., Kroesels op de Bozzem. Het Dialectenboek, Waalre: 24-27

DeEllis, Jonathon. Dutch-English translator and former Venlo resident for 10 years. January 2010. Personal communication.

Felder, Lianne. May 2015. Resident of Groningen City, Netherlands. ABN speaker. Personal communication.

Gooskens, Charlotte & Heeringa, Wilbert. 2004. The Position of Frisian in the Germanic Language Area. In: Gilbert, D.;  Schreuder, M.; Knevel, N. (eds.). On the Boundaries of Phonology and Phonetics, 61-87. Klankleergroep, Faculty of Arts, University of Groningen, Groningen. Dedicated to Tjeerd de Graaf.

Gooskens, Charlotte and Kürschner, Sebastian. 2009. “On the Low Saxon Dialect Continuum – Terminology and Research.” In Lenz, Alexandra N.; Gooskens, Charlotte; and Reker, Siemon (Eds.). Low Saxon Dialects Across Borders – Niedersächsische Dialecte Über Grenzen Hinweg, Zeitschrift fur Dialektologie und Linguistik. Beihefte 138:9-27.

Gooskens, Charlotte; Kürschner, Sebastian; and van Bezooijen, Renée. “Intelligibility of Low and High German to Speakers of Dutch”. Dialectologia (submitted for publication, not yet published).

Grondelaers, Stef. Linguist, the Netherlands. Personal communication, August 2009.

Harms, Biggi. Düsseldorf Bergish native speaker. Personal communication. March 2009.

Heeringa, Wilbert. 2004. “Dialect Variation in and around Frisia: Classification and Relationships“. Us Wurk; Tydskrift foar Frisistyk 53(4).

Heeringa, Wilbert. Jan. 2004. Measuring Dialect Pronunciation Differences Using Levenshtein Distance (Chapter 9). PhD Dissertation, University of Groningen.

Gooskens, Charlotte and van Bezooijen, Renée. 2005. “How Easy Is It for Speakers of Dutch to Understand Spoken and Written Frisian and Afrikaans, and Why?” In: J. Doetjes and J. van de Weijer (eds). Linguistics in the Netherlands 22:13-24.

Houwer, Annick; Remael, Aline; and Vandekerckhove, Reinhild. July 2008. “Vandekerckhove Intralingual Open Subtitling in Flanders: Audiovisual Translation, Linguistic Variation, and Audience Needs.” Journal of Specialized Translation 10.

Hinrichs, Erhard; Gerdemann, Dale; and Nerbonne, John. Undated. “Measuring Linguistic Unity and Diversity in Europe.” Project Proposal. Rijksuniversiteit Groningen.

Köhler, Pascal. Eschweiler German and German native speaker. Personal communication. January 20, 2015

Nerbonne, J. W.; Heeringa, E.; van den Hout, P.; van der Kooi, S. Otten; and van de Vis, W. 1996. “Phonetic Distance between Dutch Dialects”. In: G. Durieux, W. Daelemans, and S. Gillis (eds.). CLIN VI, Papers from the Sixth CLIN Meeting. Antwerpen. University of Antwerp, Center for Dutch Language and Speech, 185-202.

Smith, Norval. Linguistics professor. The Netherlands. Personal communication. March 2009.

ter Denge, Martin. Twents native speaker. Rijssen, the Netherlands. Personal communication. November 2009.

Tulipan, Laszlo. Stolberg German native speaker. Stolberg, Germany. Personal communication. April 2013.

van Bezooijen, Renée and van den Berg, Rob. 1999.
“Taalvariëteiten in Nederland en Vlaanderen: Hoe Staat Het Met Hun Verstaanbaarheid?” Taal en Tongval 51(1): 15-33.

Zweers, Steven. Dutch native speaker, the Netherlands. Personal communication. March 2009.

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How War Propaganda Works

War or foreign policy propaganda always paints the enemies of the powerful state as completely incompetent jokes who can’t organize a trip to the bathroom and at the same time complete menaces who are this far from wiping us off the map. The Jews (Israel) and the Anglosphere are masters of this nonsense. You would think people would spot it for the BS that it is, but I guess it fulfills your average person’s needs:


1. Omnipotence: The need to see you opponent as a pathetic joke and incompetent clown whose ass can be kicked in a day or two even if you barely try. because otherwise fighting them seems too scary.

2. Terror: The need to fear terrified of total annihilation. Why people have this need is beyond me, but we two-legged monkeys seem to have the need to be terrified. At the very least, some Fear Porn usually suffices to manipulate us into aggressive behavior against the feared object, so it’s very useful to the propagandist.

More Sex Fascist Teen Sex Panic Hysteria

“Who Debunked Pizzagate Pleads Guilty to Child Rape.”

I hate to defend idiots like this, but I’m about as sick of this sex panic hysteria as I am of clowns like this guy. These guys are a dime a dozen, and no matter what we do, they will always be there. You’ll never get rid of them. It’s like bailing out the ocean with a bucket and about that futile.

That said, these guys need to go down, but I’ve noticed that like all crime panics, the moronic American public thinks we can wipe out this scourge of what they call pedophilia (really sex crimes against minors) once and for all. That’s typical of a moral panic. They’re always going to wipe this menace of the face of the Earth for all of time. It’s like the Crusades.

Remember when Idiot Bush announced his War on Terror? Look around you. Read the paper. Turn on the news. So did it work? Of course not, but I could have told you that back then.

But I can’t tell you how many boneheads I ran into who told that with this particular Crusade, we were going to wipe terrorism off the face of the planet forever. I get the idea of permanently wiping out evil scourges is appealing, especially if you’re a fool, but once you engage your brain, can’t you figure out it’s not going to work? Because, you know, logic?

I can’t tell you how many times I have seen these hysterics say just that – we are going to end this “pedophilia” menace once and for all! Considering that they think grown men having sex with 17 year old girls is part of the “pedophilia” they have pledged to wipe out, I definitely wish them luck. They’re going to need all the help they can get in that particular charge at a windmill!

I went and read up on this sorry character.

This is more fake news.

First of all, he didn’t plead guilty to Child Rape at least as far as I can tell. He wasn’t even charged with it in the first place!

He’s accused of:

Possession of child porn, including some of the worst kind. That’s lamentable. Merely possession of child porn does not constitute rape or especially child rape. Did the guy rape those photos with his dick?

I don’t get it. Why do these guys always collect this horrible child porn with little girls in it? If you’re an actual pedophile, I get it. You’re feeding your orientation. It even stands to reason.

But this guy probably isn’t even a pedophile (most pedophiles haven’t the slightest interest in teenage girls after age 13). If you’re not a pedo, why the Hell do you want that creepy, horrible stuff (I’ve seen it – it’s both but mostly just disturbing) on your drive? Why do you want to look at that crap in the first place?

You’re curious? Well, I could get it if you were curious. In fact, that’s why a fair number of people look at this stuff. They’ve never seen it before, it’s taboo, and they want to see what all the fuss is about. I’ll admit that that’s why I looked at it when I stumbled across a page full of it for the first time. After that, it was:

“Ok, I saw it. I know what it is. I’m not even slightly into this crap, so, curious brain, can we move right along now?

You know what else I thought?

I don’t need or want to see this crap ever again for the rest of my life!

In other words, ok, you see this crap once, you don’t need to see it again! You got that out of the way. Now move along to some much less dangerous activities.

Almost every single of one of these clowns is doing a lot more than that. They’re actually into this stuff. I get that you don’t have to be a preferential pedophile to be into this stuff. Fully 21% of all men are as aroused by little girls as they are by grown women! That seems very odd to me, but maybe we men just got wired up weird in some ways?

And even if that were the case, why not focus on your pro-social desires – to mature females and grown women – and just repress, suppress, or lock deep away in a cage in the depths of your being these antisocial desires you have – to little girls. That’s what I’d do if I got wired up that way.

Hey, sublimation is nothing new. We are always substituting our antisocial desires with pro-social substitutes. Churchill could have been Hitler but for sublimation, right?

I don’t get these guys. Their behavior’s almost suicidal.

He also enticed some girls (probably teenagers) to take their clothes off on cam and send him nudes and pics of them masturbating. I’m not sure what that’s even called. Enticing a Minor into Sexual Behavior? I don’t get how this is child rape. He convinced some teenybopper to send him some nudes and that means he raped her? Huh? Did he rape her through the computer? Did he stick his dick through the screen and thereby right in her face?

Plus he’s going to get another Possession of Child Pornography for those pics they sent him.

I don’t get these idiots either. Yes there are horny teenage girls out there. I’ve had them come right up to me many times when I’m on Kik. And sometimes they ask to see a pic of your cock or trade nudes. You think I did it? You nuts?

Have you ever seen a naked teenage girl? I have. I saw plenty back in the day, and since then, I’ve seen some pics and even a couple of videos of them on the Net. I’ll admit naked 13 year old girls look sort of weird. It’s a woman, sort of, but it’s also still a little girl! It’s like you took a woman’s body and stuck a little girl’s head on it. The effect is a bit creepy, and I don’t even enjoy it to be honest. It just looks weird. Not to mention it’s illegal.

A naked 14-17 year old girl just looks like a woman. A very young woman, yes. But it’s just a woman. You know, like all those naked women you see in all that porn you watch all the time? Is there something special about these naked teenage girls? Do they have something a naked woman doesn’t have? I don’t get it. Why risk going to prison for trading pics of these jailbaits? Is it worth it? Why would it be? Once again these guys just seem like suicidals.

Also, 40 years even for Possession of Child Porn is a ridiculous charge. I would say that in most cases, Possession of Child Porn should have a maximum sentence of 10 years in prison. Our sentencing guidelines are ridiculously excessive.

Why German Communists Hated German Social Democrats in the 20’s and 30’s

From the Net:

The KPD (Communist Party of Germany) never forgave the SPD (Social-Democratic Party of Germany) for allying with the Freikorps (far rightwing German war veterans and proto-Nazis – Hitler was a member) to suppress the Spartacist revolt in Bavaria, a short-lived Communist government of only three months in that state, and murdering Rosa Luxemburg and Karl Liebknecht, leaders of the communist revolution there.

This is something that liberals are apt to forget when they blame the KPD for being too slow to form an anti-Nazi front in the early 1930’s: the Communists were still mad at the Social Democrats over this betrayal and refused to ally with them. They also forget that the Weimar Republic was destroyed in 1930. The coalition including the NSDAP (Nazi Party) in 1933 was to prevent its corpse from twitching, not to bury it.

When It Comes to a Choice between the Left or the Empire Versus Fascism, Liberal Democrats Always Choose Fascism

Yes I’ve noticed that when it comes down to a choice between the Left and fascism (and fascism typically evolves due to a serious threat from the Left), liberal Democrats and even modern Social Democrats always align with the fascists! Look at how many times liberal Democrats supported out and out fascists against the Left, even when the Left was democratic and was thrown out for such communist behavior as raising the minimum wage.

  • Leftwing guy comes in.
  • Raises the minimum wage! (What a Communist thing to do!)
  • The Right screams “Communism” on cue.
  • A fascist coup ensues.
  • Fascist terror with death squads. etc. follows, massacring so many people that folks will think twice about ever electing the Left again. “Remember what happened last time we did that?”
  • Liberal democrats and nowadays, social democrats line up with the mass murdering fascists! Those bastards!

I never really understood it until I figured out that liberal Democrats and modern social democrats both are working for the rich and especially the corporations of their countries, and those corporations hate anything even slightly leftwing. Now it makes sense. Liberal Democrats and now even Social Democrats will do anything, including allying with the Devil Himself, to keep capitalism going smoothly.

Shall We Make Alliance with the Right?

On the other hand, even given that the Right is fascist now, should we avoid all alliances with them? I think not. First of all if we ally with them on certain issues, we’re not going to help elect a single MAGA fascist and we can still fight their fascism while we strategically ally with them on some issues.

I would argue that the issues we are dealing with here in the US are so serious that we can’t afford not to form strategic alliances.

One thing I liked about this essay was his advocacy of Right-Left alliances. He also opposed purity tests.

Sure, a lot people on that site don’t like the Left for a lot of reasons, but some of us are with the Right on certain things! Let’s make Right-Left alliances on everything we agree on and try not to discuss the things we differ on. There’s strength in numbers. Whatever increases our numbers improves us, whatever diminishes them harms us.

We can ally with them on

  • support for Russia, China, and BRICS, opposition to the US Empire, and
  • opposition to The insanity and excess of the Cultural Left
  • The US Empire
  • Mass illegal and even legal immigration (family reunification, chain migration, unselective immigration where we import unskilled instead of skilled labor, labor visas and Hindu-1B visas, lack of ideological screening)
  • Corporate power (especially woke corporate power)
  • Anti-White racism (including DEI, Critical Race Theory and modern anti-racism)
  • Man-hating feminism
  • Drugging, arresting of development, and mutilation of children in order to create Frankenstein trannies
  • Propagandizing of small children favor of homosexuality, transvestism (drag queens), and transsexualism
  • General anti-elitism

Purity tests are also ridiculous. If you’re Left on 90 things and Right on 10 things (90% Left) you are literally tossed out of the Left on your ass and ordered to go join the Right. This makes no sense. The Left like anyone else needs every vote it can get. I get thrown out of every Left forum I join though I’m 82% Left at last count. The 18% Right apparently means I’m on the Right! Did these idiots flunk math class?

I also want to say that the folks on the Right (even the MAGA fascists) are a Hell of a lot nicer to me that people on the Left are. I disagree with the Right on so many things, yet most of them are still kind, and it seems that they are grabbing any alliance they can. This is odd because I was told that the Right were the meanies. Turns out that’s not true. The people on the Left are as mean as snakes! The nice people are on the Right. I don’t want them running things, but they sure are nice!

Why MAGA Is a Fascist Movement

There’s one problem with being a leftwing Russia supporter. Almost all of the pro-Russia material written in English is coming from a rightwing – Republican Party – MAGA (the last in particular) POV. If someone can show me a great Substack about this war that is pro-Russia and on the Left, I’d love to join them.

There are some people on the Left who oppose this war. They’re called anti-imperialists. But most of them are not pro-Russia. It’s really tiresome having to wade through all this horrible pro-MAGA stuff. And if you write on forums, it’s all MAGA people on there, so you can’t really write anything pro-Left.

It’s also showing me how intellectually bankrupt and bereft most of the MAGA crowd.

Increasingly, they don’t even say they’re on the Right. And Trump has convinced most of them that the Republican Party is some populist, pro-worker, anti-corporate, anti-elite party! I guess people are pretty easy to fool. And you wonder why Nazis called themselves socialists and Mussolini recruited workers to be his Brownshirts?

There’s a lot of mileage to be had on the Right selling yourself as a man of the people, in favor of workers and the average guy (in particular the average family), anti-corporate, anti-elite (code: rich people). You get to fool all sorts of gullible people who ought to voting Left into voting for the Right. You get to run as an pro-worker, pro-average family, pro-corporate, pro-elite party while still being  secretly an anti-worker, anti-average family, anti-corporate, anti-elite party.

Increasingly MAGA people are saying they are not on the Right! This makes sense in view of Trump’s rightwing populism, which often sells itself as not being on the Right.

They are also saying there’s no Left and Right anymore as those labels don’t make sense. Ok, so are any of these guys voting for the Left anytime soon? Didn’t think so.

And now I am starting to worry that my fellow Lefties were right when they said a typical fascist line is, “Let’s get rid of Left and Right and move beyond all of that.” I thought, “Oh you paranoid Lefties. Always seeing a fascist underneath everyone’s bed.”

But now here we are, with this MAGA movement and an authoritarian Right that is more anti-democratic than any US party has ever been, plotting to throw out democratic rule to keep themselves in power in perpetuity, probably because they see the writing on the wall that demographics increasingly predict their doom, and…it’s announcing that it’s moving beyond Right and Left. Hmmm. Smells fishy.

Along with that, we have Joe Biden’s party, which, sorry to say, is the most leftwing Democratic Party in recent memory. I say that’s sorry because Biden isn’t all that leftwing. But he’s still better than we’ve had in four decades. Pathetic!

We have to go all the way back to the 1970’s to find a Democratic Party this far left.

You might be interested to note that the move of the Democratic Party to the Right actually been with the McGovern debacle. Ok, they ran someone too far to the Left. But I’m still a McGovern Democrat!

So the party said the only future was to go rightwing. Jimmy Carter was actually the first of these Right-leaning Democrats. His supporters were called “Atari Democrats” after the popular car of the time. They’re like Hillary or Clinton Democrats of yore. The loss to Reagan and then the second loss of the Mondale debacle simply accelerated this movement.

If you have a left party steering hard to the Right over 40 years, sooner or later, it’s got to end. You’ve changed society to the Right so much that you have too many angry Democrats and furthermore, as a Marxist would say, you’ve simply moved society so far to the Right that a leftwing backlash in the form of class war is simply inevitably, nearly a law of politics. So this DNC project was doomed from the start.

So let’s see. A Democratic Party more left than we’ve seen in 40+ years. A Democratic Party that is demographically trending towards a permanent majority of their own (democratic this time) and threatening to make the Republican Party a permanent minority party. What does that add up to for the Right?

Sounds like a “serious threat from the Left,” correct?

The Republicans could always move left, but that’s not in their genes. They’re ideologues.

So what do we have? A Republican Party and US Right sensing a serious threat of extinction via a resurgent radicalized Left.

Remember how I’ve said fascism rises in the capitalist class or the Right when there is a significant threat from the Left. This actually comes from Trotsky’s writings on fascism from ~1930. It’s some of the finest work ever written on fascism. He really spells it out and hits it on the  head, including its menacing appeal to the average guy in the streets. In fact, Trotsky states in that essay that your typical fascist supporter is simply the average man of the streets.

Los descamisados or the shirtless ones of Peronist fame, although Peron was probably not really a fascist. He was a bit too far Left for that. But Peronism is very odd in that there are left and even communist Peronists, center Peronists and rightwing, even fascist Peronists. Of course the commie Peronists and the fash Peronists spent a good deal of their time killing each other.

Fascism is basically a last ditch attempt to save capitalism and the privileges, money, and power of those who wield it against a menacing Left. The wealthy and business would literally rather have a fascist dictatorship that lets them keep their money and stuff than risk democracy to a threat to their status, power, and wealth.

And every time there’s a choice between fascism and the threat from the Left, the capitalists always choose fascism. That’s why the US never met a fascist government or rightwing dictatorship it didn’t love to bits, with the odd except of the World War 2 years, which were interesting in that they were the first and only time in US history that the US has ever fought fascism or rightwing authoritarianism. In previous years and afterwards, the US has supported every fascist and rightwing authoritarian state out there.

In fact that was our preferred model for Latin America, certainly in the pre-war years but also extending into the postwar era when the model began to get its inevitable (as a Marxist would say) class war reaction in the form of Left revolutions, armed and unarmed. We supported the fascist murderers of Latin America from 1945-to the present, although it started winding down from 1990-95.

But it continued on in Colombia, Haiti, and Peru, and with the rise of the Left in Nicaragua and Venezuela, a powerful rightwing fascist opposition rose, though they were not armed to a contra degree yet. Of course the US supported the death squad states of three countries above and the violent Left in Venezuela and Nicaragua and this support has been ongoing.

That’s when we’ve not been fomenting rightwing/fascist coups of various types – legislative in Brazil and Paraguay with a failed attempt in Venezuela, electoral in Bolivia and Ecuador, and military in Haiti and Honduras.

Why does the US and now the West love fascism and rightwing authoritarianism so much?

Because the states in the West are capitalist countries, and when push comes to shove, capitalists always pick fascist dictatorship and terror over leftwing democracy.

In addition, those states are good for business while the authoritarian model prevents any pesky left movement from arising due to the menace of a democracy. Democracy’s just not worth the risk!

Also the idea of moving beyond Right and Left rather appealed to me too, as I’m ~80% Left and 20% Right. I’ll still never vote Republican but I’d be wrong if I said they didn’t have the right line some things, especially cultural issues, on which the Left has gone completely nuts of late.

In addition, the woke Cultural Left is as anti-science as we accuse the MAGA people of being. That’s because woke arguments are mostly just lies. Once you hold the light of reason up to them, they fade from sight like Dracula retreating from a wielded cross. So the Woke Left and the MAGA people both hate science, mostly for coming up with the wrong uncomfortable truths.

So as we can see here, if we take the serious threat from the left to the privileges of business and the wealthy, the denial of the Right that it is even rightwing, the increasing calls to move beyond left and right, the rise of a truly scary rightwing populism, the rise of (Shall I say it?) antisemitism and attacks on women’s rights (fascists always attack women’s rights), increasing attacks on minorities in projects that are literally trying to keep them from voting or their votes from mattering, along with a Republican Party committed to the destruction of the last ramparts of our democracy in their desire for a permanent rightwing authoritarian state, what do we have?


We have fascism. MAGA is fascist. Period. How can you deny it?

I would not necessarily say the Republican Party itself is fascist (though it’s starting to look that way) but in the MAGA crowd, we definitely have what can only be a particularly American form of fascism. Now this will be fairly moderate and hardly murderous or even violent as far as fascists go, akin to a mild rightwing authoritarian state in Latin America, but you’ve a choice between democracy and authoritarianism, and this falls into the latter category.

And all rightwing authoritarian states (especially the one the Republicans have in mind), mild or not, violent or not, are arguably fascist governments.

Different Types of Rightwing Politics

What is this “Right” of which you speak of? In the MSM it is *always* Far-Right.

Oh! Well, the MAGA Right is pretty much Far Right. I suppose the never-Trumpers might be the Right?

I agree with you though. Ever since Reagan, the Right has always been the Far Right.

It does beg the question though. If the Republican Party since Reagan (with the exception of George Bush) has been the Far Right, then what on Earth would the Right be? I suppose you could argue that the Right would be Eisenhower, Nixon, Ford, George Bush, Ross Perot. Goldwater would have to be Far Right.

Conservative/Right: Wants to freeze all change and keep things the way they are or at least go slow with change.

Reaction/Reactionary/Far Right: Wants “backwards change” – that is, wants to go back to the glory days of how things used to be.

Now I’m Hard Left but on culture, I’m a reactionary because I want to roll back the Cultural Left to the 1996 Democratic Convention LOL. So you see rollback isn’t always a bad thing.

The MAGA’s are definitely reactionaries. See that slogan: “Make America Great Again?” Rollback. Back to the glory days of old. This can also be a fascist project (see below), but in that case, the Right wants a rightwing revolution and a rightwing authoritarian state or a rightwing dictatorship.

Fascism: This is literally a “conservative revolution,” same as Communism is a Left revolution. It’s “revolutionary conservatism” or the “revolutionary Right.” As it is the mirror image of communism, yes, in some ways, they do resemble each other. Fascism often wants a blood and soil revolution, and reifies the glorious past, national myths, national creation myths, etc.. For instance, Mussolini always referenced Rome. He was going to literally rebuild the Roman Empire!

It rises in reaction to a left that has gone too far or threatens to take over, often in a period of excess and decadence. Fascists equate the decay with too much democracy and promise an authoritarian solution. They also worship hierarchy, but all conservatives do. Fascism is also palingetic – that is, it represents the mythical Phoenix bird that rises from the ashes of its flames to fly again. The ashes represent the decadent present which the fascists will eliminate so the glorious culture of old can unfold again.

As MAGA folks don’t seem to believe in democracy anymore and seem to be pursuing an authoritarian Right project or “permanent Republican state” (a dictatorship of the Republican Party in the sense that you can never replace them), people argue that MAGA is a fascist movement. In a sense, all rightwing authoritarianism might be seen as fascist, though it typically doesn’t mirror Mussolinism.

What Is Grooming? With an Aside about the Dutroux Affair

Trying to get new children to voluntarily have homosexual sex is very easy (“You’re a big girl now…Don’t be childish,” etc.), just as overwhelmingly young, extremely neglected children (like X1), are given presents and attention, soon followed by the abuser sexually touching the victim.

If the child allows the touching, i.e. “volunteers”  to be touched (after given a few hints by the abuser and thinks: “This person is so good to me. Why am I so childish or selfish to refuse him something as simple as sex?”), the game continues…

From The Reality of Protected Child Abuse and Snuff Networks: Beyond the Dutroux Affair (2007) by Joël van der Reijden*.

X1 was Regina Louf, one of the girls who got molested. Her description of one crime, the murder of one the girls who was getting molested alongside her, was so accurate that she could only have been there watching it. They killed the girls for breaking rules, talking to others about the network, and also for simply getting too old. The girls were supposedly murdered at age ~16 because they were “too old” for these freaks.

The Dutroux Affair was a crime that occurred in Belgium. It did occur and a few people went down on kidnapping and child molesting. I’m not sure if anyone went down on murder, but it’s obvious that Dutroux and his friends were involved in at least a couple of murders of young girls whose names are none and whose bodies were found.

The article also makes an excellent case that snuff movies do indeed exist. Indeed X1 and the other girls describing the filming of the murders of girls. Furthermore, officers who found some of these videos stated that the murders of known girl murder victims were actually depicted on the tapes. Later, of course, all of the tapes conveniently disappeared.

There’s also a suggestion of involving of intelligence agencies in these networks. They set prominent men up with little girls or teenage girls and get them to have sex with the girls while the whole thing is filmed via hidden cameras. Now they have blackmail on the man and the own him for life.

The CIA is reputed to have long had habitations called “brownstones” that are used to bait and entrap prominent men into having sex with little girls or teens, the events of which are then videotaped by the CIA with hidden cameras. The CIA supposedly has long had blackmail material on many prominent people through this very nasty means.

This is exactly what was going on in the Mossad/CIA Jeffrey Epstein case.

Ok, you want to know what “grooming” is? That above is grooming. You can only groom little kids. You have to groom kids because they have no sex drive and have no idea what even is, so you have to give them presents and whatnot to get them in the mood to do this weird thing called sex. Small children don’t typically hate having sex with adults, mostly because they have no idea what exactly is going on.

Until you have a sex drive, you can’t really formulate the concept of what sex even is. In terms of reactions, most children react to getting molested by thinking that what happened to them was odd, strange, or weird, but they don’t necessarily think it’s bad because they can’t conceptualize that. On the other hand, when you are a kid, strange things are happening to you all the time because you don’t understand the world.

The reason so many people recover memories of being molested is because for a huge number of kids, this odd event called getting molested was so uneventful and trivial that they simply forget about it! Then they recover the memory as adults and they experience an extreme trauma they never felt as a kid. These adults are pretty much self-harming. If it didn’t bother you as a kid, why the Hell does it bother you now?

Some kids do hate getting molested. I talked to a woman recently who got molested by her father from a very early age. She told that she loved it! Incredibly, the molestation started at age three! For the first few years, she hated it, and she cried every time he did it, but by the time she was five, she discovered that she liked it a lot.

This isn’t an unusual reaction by the way. I’ve met a number of women who were molested even at very young ages by fathers, mothers, brothers, cousins, or uncles who told me that they liked it. I’ve seen videos of others claiming the same thing.

That’s why I think calling it abuse or rape is absurd. “Molestation” is so much better. What’s happening? The way society sees, a “bothering” or “annoyance” of the child or perhaps society itself is society disapproves of this severe transgression so much. In a way, they are bothering or annoying society by engaging in his severe transgression.

Of course sometimes molestation is rape and I’ve heard of  two different cases. One was raped by her brother for many years, and another was sexually assaulted as a teenager by her father. In both cases, the girls fought  back. Not coincidentally, both women continue to suffer as a result of this sexual abuse or rape they experienced as minors.

If the child is traumatized then it makes sense to call it abuse. But so much child molesting isn’t really rape or abuse that we need a new word: child molestation.

It’s also ok that “molesting” doesn’t seem like a huge offense. After all, it just means bothering someone. But you can use the verb as an analogy for transgression of society’s morals I don’t think child molesters deserve the death penalty. In Florida the hysterics just put that in.

I’m unsure of what the proper charge for molestation should be. I need to think about that some more.

I do know that the maximum for statutory rape should be no more than three years in prison. For possession of child porn, these sentences are ridiculous too. I would make that punishable by a maximum of 10 years in prison.

All these people who complain about slaps on the wrists ought to volunteer to serve some time at the local prison as an experiment. Since they say it’s such an easy cruise, I’m sure they’ll have a wonderful time! After they spend one day in a maximum security lockup, I’m sure they will find themselves in the ninth circle of Hell. People just don’t understand how horrible a day, week, month or particularly a year in a US prison is like.

*By the way, that online book is truly horrible. I’m doing a huge edit on it because it’s a mess having been translated directly from the Dutch by a man who is not a fluent English speaker. However, it’s 450 pages long, so please bear with me! I’ll be posting it on the site whenever I finish it.

It shows that there are indeed gangs of pedophiles and child molesters consisting of some people at the very top of society who worship the Devil, and molest, beat and even murder kids. A lot of them are not even really pedophiles as they don’t prefer kids sexually. Instead they are trying to go beyond all of society’s rules and commit the ultimate sins and crimes, perhaps to show that they are completely free or that they can do whatever they want. They get off on the idea that they are committing the ultimate transgression.

So while Pizzagate is BS, what it discusses, secret gangs of Satan-worshiping, child molesting elites at the top of society is indeed a phenomenon. The problem is it has been very hard to get convictions of these folks because cops who look into this tend to end up threatened or dead.

These people are so high-ranking that no one wants to go after them. In addition, the things that are done to these kids and teenagers are horrific that it stretches one’s imagination that these events even occurred at all. Most kids who were victims of these networks have been blown off as head cases and chronic liars. However, I think a good part of the time, especially in the Dutroux case, I think these incredible events really happened.

Part of the problem is that some of these cases like the McMartin preschool case are obviously complete bullshit. And I doubt if it’s the only one. So then one is forced into the task of figuring out which cases are true and which are false.

I’d be careful reading that document if I were you. I’ve been reading it lately but it is so disturbing that it is hard to read and I have to stop reading it a lot. You may even find it too disturbing to even read bits of it.

The Fake News That “The Left Supports Child Sex Trafficking and Pedophilia”

“California Democrats Block Bill to Make Child Sex Trafficking a Serious Felony”

This has got to be sex fascist fake news.

I believe that in California, all statutory rape of 14-17 year olds by men up to ten years older than each age year of girl is classed as a misdemeanor instead of a felony.

14-24 year old male commits statutory rape of 14 year old girl: Misdemeanor.
25+ year old man commits statutory rape of 14 year old girl: Felony

15-25 year old man commits statutory rape of 15 year old girl: Misdemeanor.
26+ year old man commits statutory rape of 15 year old girl: Felony

16-26 year old man commits statutory rape of 16 year old girl: Misdemeanor.
27 year old man commits statutory rape of 16 year old girl: Felony

17-27+ year old man commits statutory rape of 17 year old girl: Misdemeanor.
28 year old man commits statutory rape of 17 year old girl: Felony

The lower ages in these crimes are probably not even prosecuted. I’ve heard that in California they don’t even arrest minors for statutory crimes. I’m not sure if that’s true though, but I think a 13-17 year old boy could have sex with a 14-17 year old girl with no issues. The worst they might do is involve Social Services.

I think that’s how it works. Nevertheless, this 10 or less year age difference break that men got was not extended to gay men having sex with teenage boys. All the Legislature did recently was equalize the penalties for gays and straights. This was played up all across the rightwing sex fascist media as “California Democrats Support Homosexual Pedophilia!” BS as you can see.

The article below is being peddled all over the Sex Fascist Right as evidence that the Left “supports pedophilia and child sex trafficking.”

It’s simply not true that people on the Left generally defend “pedophilia,” although it doesn’t matter if you defend or oppose it, as pedophilia and being a pedophile is 100% legal everywhere on Earth! It’s simply a way of thinking or a person who thinks in a particular way. It’s not illegal until you act on these urges, at which time you commit the crime of Child Molestation and become a person known as a child molester.

Now, child molestation is an actual act, and you can of course support or oppose it in a meaningful sense. The problem is that child molestation and child molester somehow or other doesn’t sound evil enough for the crime, though it was plenty evil back in the day, I assure you! And keep in mind that we are not trying to be rational here. The sex fascists are simply trying to deviously excite a mass hysteria in society over the bugaboo of teen sex. That’s all it is. Another teen sex panic!

“Child sex trafficking” is a fake term made up by sex fascists for what really should be called “Prostitution by a Minor.” “Trafficking” itself is a BS word for what has always been called “pimping.” Work as a prostitute? Got a pimp? Congratulations, you’re now being “trafficked.” Why not just call it pimping? Well, they used to do just that, and in some places, perhaps they still do. But pimping just doesn’t sound as evil as trafficking, and the sex fascists are in the business of creating mass hysterias here, not writing sensible laws. So the old language had to go.

Also, according to this crazy new federal law, all teenage prostitutes, even those in business for themselves, are automatically being “trafficked,” which is idiotic and an abuse of language. Self-employed teen prostitutes are literally “trafficking” themselves? Huh? Of course the idiot law doesn’t see it like that.

All teen prostitutes are somehow being “trafficked,” yet they can’t possibly be trafficking themselves, so what’s a sex fascist lawmaker to do? He’s in a conundrum! This state of affairs was quickly remedied by the unique notion that every man who purchased a teen prostitute was somehow “trafficking” her! Dumb, huh? So he’s literally pimping her out? Well, no. But I thought trafficking just meant pimping?

Well it does, except when it doesn’t, and when the sex fascists extended the dumb law in the 2012 Congress, and then they had to come up with a new fake reason for a crime! Whenever you are going on a fishing expedition for the reasons things are against the law, and you’re throwing anything against the law to see what sticks, there’s a pretty good chance that the reasons for your law or at least its language are nonsensical.

All of this BS could have been remedied by simply making a new crime called Purchasing a Minor Prostitute or something along those lines. But that doesn’t sound evil enough as trafficking, so the sex fascists had to abuse both language and logic in order to get people all emotionally upset and hysterical about a crime.

No one on the Left or Right supports minors being prostitutes. I’m not aware of one person on Earth promoting that position.

Neither the Right nor the Left supports or defends Child Molestation, so it’s a moot issue. There are a few outliers, mostly pedophiles, who support it, but they’re not necessarily left or right. They have a fringe politics for sure, but it’s best seen as neither Right nor Left, just fringe stuff.

Bottom line: Every time you see those idiot words “pedophilia” or “pedophile,” just substitute “child molestation” or “child molester” respectively.

Now you do that and you can finally talk about this issue and make sense at the same time.

A Guide to the Perplexed: Some Names of Different Forms of Modern Politics

From here.

The most striking evocations of this new culture war are the now daily examples of the New Left’s flouting of issues and ideas that should unequivocally be nonpartisan, universal concerns – in any normal society, that is.

Note I use the term Left as a form of mutually intelligible shorthand. I realize not all “true leftists” or “classical leftists” adhere to the wild excesses of the current lot, but there’s no easier way to quickly and conveniently refer to the group of people presently strangulating society. If I termed them Progressives, then those would complain instead – nor do I even consider myself a “Right-winger” and mostly disavow the arbitrary binary. So the perceived anti-Leftism doesn’t come from a place of partisan malice in the sense of the classic divide.

If you have a better suggestion on what to call the psychotic miserables currently occupying the totemic placeholder of the ‘Left’, I’m all ears. But for now, the New Left at least differentiates them from you proud Classical Liberal lot.

Just call it the Cultural Left or the Woke Left, and you’ll be fine, my boy.

As you note, a lot of us on the Left despise the Cultural Left as much as you all do. For these Left dissenters, you may call us the Anti-Woke Left, Alternative Left or Alt Left, Economic Reductionist Left, Anti-Identity Politics Left or anti-Id Pol Left, or Socially Conservative Left, etc.

“Classical liberals” tend to be on the Right because that’s a rightwing form of economics. In this sense of Liberalism (Classical Liberalism), the politics advocates “freedom in all things” – economic freedom, political freedom, and freedom of civil rights. They tend to be suspicious of big governments of any type. “Neoliberal” economics is actually rightwing or conservative economics.

The problem is that this is confused with “liberal Democrats,” a term that refers to a certain type of somewhat leftwing US politics called “social liberalism.” This is the politics of liberal Democrats here in the US. This social liberalism is not found anywhere else, although Canada has something resembling it that is further to the Left. In both the US and Canada, this means a politics that is left of center yet stops short of actual social democracy. Sort of the middle ground between social democracy and centrism.

I know. It’s completely confused, isn’t it?

Are Homophobes Really Gays in Denial?

Yes, some virulent homophobes are projecting.

Actually it’s called a reaction formation. In these cases, the person is projecting out extreme hatred of the gay internal self that he cannot accept. He hates his own inner gay self, but he is in denial, so he cannot even admit he is gay in the first place. Self-hatred is no fun and besides, he’s not gay, right? So he can’t hate himself and he projects out his own inner self-loathing of the gay self onto external objects, those being the gay men that represent the hated internal gay self that he cannot confront or accept.

Below I will discuss the construct known as toxic masculinity. I don’t really believe in it as toxic masculinity to me is just normative masculinity, but there does seem to be an extreme masculinity that is too extreme or “toxic.” Unfortunately these are the men that women love the most and as long as women keep insisting that males be hypermasculine, toxic masculinity, hypermasculinity, etc. and all of the negative things spouting from that will never go away.

However, serious homophobia is also an aspect of masculinity, hypermasculinity, toxic masculinity, whatever. Excellent books have been written on toxic masculinity that described homophobia as one of the essential aspects of toxic masculinity along with all of the other hypermasculine stuff we are so familiar with. And as someone becomes increasingly masculine or deeper into toxic masculinity, the homophobia seems to increase in tandem.

Active heterosexuality, often promiscuity, is also associated with toxic masculinity. So, really homophobia increases with increased levels of masculinity and probably also increases with more sexual success with women, a more active sex life, and more female sex partners. In other words, far from being gay, most homophobes are not only straight but they are Super Straight! The most homophobic men are the most passionately straight men out there. They’re Heterosexual X10!

In Jamaica, 92% of men are virulent homophobes. So Jamaican men are all a bunch of faggots? Nah. My father was a homophobe most of his life as were most men in his generation. I guess he was a screaming faggot? ISIS is homicidally homophobic. I guess all those ISIS terrorists are a bunch of homos? For much of Western civilization in Europe in the last 1,500 years, male homosexuality was condemned to an extreme degree. In fact, the typical penalty for homosexual sex was execution – it was a capital offense. Nevertheless, it still went on. I have read reports of gay men in Medieval Italy who would meet anonymously in out of the way places, even underground, to have gay sex. The more things change the more things stay the same, eh?

However, I think there was little gay male sex going on during this period and if you got caught doing this sort of thing, you might just get killed. I guess that would tend to put a damper on things. We have almost zero reports of gay men anywhere in the West before the late 1800’s. Paul Verlaine and Charles Baudelaire were gay Frenchmen during this time and Oscar Wilde was a gay Briton. I can’t think of a single prominent case in the West before that time. If someone can find one, clue me.

If the woke syllogism were true, then all Western men up through the 19th Century were a bunch of mincing queers, as homicidal homophobia was the order of the day. Anyone think that was true?

Toxic Masculinity Is Caused by Women, Not by Other Men

I’ve been reading lately some Reddit posts by men who have issues around their masculinity. Granted, by objective standards, they are not very masculine. That’s not a delusion on their part. They say that they get it from both men and women both. A lot of it is good-natured but they still don’t like it.

Many had girlfriends but the girlfriends pointed out that they weren’t very masculine, said they liked guys like that, and that’s why they were with him. None of the men liked this either, and the reason was odd.

That was because most of these men, though objectively not particularly masculine (or perhaps not macho is a better term), had a deep inner sense of a masculine self that was very important to them. It angered and upset them that this was not being recognized in others.

They all said they had been bullied growing up as kids and many said they got called gay a lot, even though none of them were effeminate. On the other hand, a lot of them said they weren’t hypermasculine but they weren’t effeminate either. Obviously you don’t have to be effeminate to get called a fag in the US.

The problem is Americans don’t make the distinction. Not macho? You’re a faggot! There’s hypermasculinity and anything less, well, you’re a fucking fag! I’ve also heard that Europeans are far less demanding than Americans are about this sort of thing.

In the graphic below, each number represents a spectrum.

In reality I would say there is:

    1. Hypermasculinity – toxic masculinity ->
    2. not macho but often with a masculine image – “soft masculinity” ->
    3. femininity – the “feminine man” “wimpy” men ->
    4. effeminacy – homosexuality – transvestism – transsexualism.

1 and 2 often have strong masculine self images, but the non-macho guy is often upset that no one can see his deep sense of inner masculinity.

3 and 4 not only don’t feel masculine, but in general, they don’t even have much interest in acting this way.

When you get to 3-4, there’s also a strong tendency towards passivity and not wanting to fight. This is definitely true with 2 also, although there are some 2’s who absolutely can and will fight and some are even dangerous or more or less psycho (though they don’t necessarily break the law – they just appear very dangerous at times). If you fight or fight back, you’re not a wimp. Even some passive men will definitely fight and are maybe even a bit psycho, like the guy writing this blog post.

No, you’re not a wimp. You fight! You fight back! You really fight!

– my mother, speaking to me.

So there you have it. If a man fights, especially viciously, or seems the slightest bit dangerous, he’s not a wimp.

It’s long been my observation that men are far more easy-going in terms of masculinity than women are or else men are looking at masculinity in some different way than women are. I say this because most men, aside from a few psycho fucks, seem to be ok with my level of masculinity. I walk the walk and talk the talk, and that’s all you have to do. It’s a performance!

At the same time, even when I get a pass from the most masculine men, I still often don’t cut it with women, and for much of my life, I get the following from women: ball-busting attacks on my masculinity, the idea that I’m not much of a man or lacking in the masculinity department and that this bothers her, questions about me being bisexual or formerly gay, a tendency to want to boss me around and bitch me out, etc.

This has continued to this very day when I still hear this stuff from women, mostly young women. A young woman recently told me that I was not dominant and she wanted a dominant man. She told me to come back when I learn to act like a man!

Another young Hispanic woman who I had over one night complained to my Arab friend that I wasn’t a tough guy, as she put it. And you know those Hispanic chicks all want badass dudes.

During this same period, I got basically zero attacks on my masculinity along those lines from men. I pretty much get the a-ok from them in that department. Like I said, you walk the walk and talk the talk, and you’re in.

But I’m afraid that for women that’s just not good enough. This goes against our common ideal that it is men who put insane pressures on other men to act masculine and mete out punishments for violations from this behavior. This line says that toxic masculinity is created by men strictly enforcing masculinity against other men (with a fist, I might add).

Nobody ever says that it’s not other men but women who are the true cause of toxic masculinity and everything bad that flows from it, but this is my conviction after six decades of observation.

To meet the masculine bar with men, as I said, it is sort of a surface performance thing and most men don’t care about your life beyond that. You walk the walk and talk the talk, and you’re in the boys’ club, no questions asked.

No one cares about much of anything else, how you live your life, if you are married or have kids or not, how much money you have, what kind of car you drive, how responsible and law-abiding you are, or even how outgoing or introverted you are, all those things that women list when they talk about masculinity – well, men seem like they could care less about any of that.

As long as you can do a good performance, it’s all good, and you can have a beer with the boys. You become “one of them,” and to a certain extent, all is forgiven, and they can at least bond with on one thing.

However, whatever it takes to win the Masculine Award with men is not going to be nearly enough to cut it with women because they have a much longer list of what it means to be a man and they are much less tolerant of masculine aberrations (like the stuff I listed above that men don’t care about). At any rate you are going to have to ramp up your masculinity far beyond what was needed to cut it with men in order to make the cut with women.

I know this goes against everything we’ve been taught but I’m certain that it’s true, having a lot of experience in this area.

What Do We Mean When We Talk about the Right in Terms of Politics?

Commenter: Are you really this stupid or are you just trolling? Left? Right? What are you talking about? Since you are the expert on this spectrum thing of right and left, why don’t you define for us what “right wing” is and what “left wing” is.


Right means conservative! Real simple. It’s mostly about economics though.

A better definition is that the Right believes in rule by an aristocratic wealthy elite and the Left believes in rule by the people, the masses, ordinary people without a lot of money, workers, or democracy. In the past, the Right believed in the divine right of kings. Then they switched to supporting feudal and warlord rule.

The Right believes in rule by aristocracy and is opposed to people’s rule or Democracy. The Left believes in rule by the people or democracy.

The Right includes all of the supporters of the Republican Party and the MAGA crowd.

They tend to support neoliberalism and hate “big government,” taxation, and social programs.

They’re also often hostile to women and non-Whites nowadays.

They have conservative social mores. In the US, the Right represents hardline Christianity such as Catholicism and fundamentalist Christianity.

They hated gays in the past, but those days may be over.

The Right hates environmentalism everywhere on Earth. They just want to destroy everything so people can get more money and stuff.

The Right also believes that global warming is fake and that the COVID epidemic was also faked. They opposed masks and COVID shutdowns as a violation of individual rights.

In the US, the Right is associated with radical individualism, but this philosophy is hated everywhere else in the world.

In the US, the Right takes a hardline against the tranny cult, anti-White critical race theory, radical homosexuality, and man-hating feminist bitches.

They do tend to take a harder line on illegal immigration and amnesty for illegals. They also take a harder line against asylum seekers. I actually support them on these issues.

In the past they refused to penalize employers for hiring illegals, so the problem was not fixed. This is because the US Right is extremely pro-corporate, pro-rich and pro-business. They always refused to deal with the Hindu-1B scabs who took White men’s IT work because they worked for half the money.

Now the Right may be cracking down on this abuse. They are also cracking down on chain immigration and are thinking about imposing more stringent tests to become a legal immigrant.

The US Right wants as few people as possible to vote, so they make voting as difficult as possible, especially for Democratic voters. Rightwingers always turn out no matter what, so they’re not worried about suppressing their own vote.

Since 2000, the US Right have been stealing elections via those voting machines. This is a problem that is still not fixed.

The Right is pushing radical anti-democracy measures all across the land and they just literally tried to steal an election.

The US Right is also extremely corrupt due to its business connections and love of wealth and possessions.

At the moment, the Republican Party seems committed to the project of a permanent Republican authoritarian state or dictatorship because as an elite party committed to rule by aristocrats, they realize that increasingly they cannot win fair and square.

This is a tendency all over the world, as the Right is antidemocratic in most places. As a movement committed to aristocratic rule and opposed to democratic rule by the people, generally speaking, most populations don’t want to vote for rich Rightwing elites. Hence in many places they only way they can get into power is by cutting back on democracy and putting in Rightwing dictatorships and authoritarian states.

The Right recently out and out stole three seats on the US Supreme Court.

The Right gutted the Voting Rights Act, so now states are free to discriminate against non-White voters.

The Rightwing Supreme Court has also ruled that extreme partisan gerrymanders such as the permanent Republican dictatorship in the Wisconsin Legislature are legal! The US Right

The Conservative Party in Australia and Canada is similar but much milder than Republicans. The Libertarian Party is absolutely conservative or Rightwing. Joe Manchin and Kristen Sinema are Rightwing Democrats. However, the US Republican Party project is despised in most of the world where it has few if any numerous supporters in any land.

In Latin America, the Right supports the lighter-skinned elite and opposes anything intended to improve the lives of the vast majority darker skinned poor. They are also often violent and even murderous. They also represent latifundios, or large landowners.

The wealth gap is extreme in these societies the rich have almost all the money and wealth and everyone else has next to nothing. The Latin American Right thinks this is just fine! They often take over the small plots of the poor with the death squads and army.

If you don’t hand over your land, you get murdered by the Right. The rural poor then flood into urban slums without water, indoor plumbing, paved streets, not to mention access to health care, education, or even employment. The Right likes this just fine! And if they try to protest these conditions, the Right sends people out to kill them!

I should note that the Right owns all of the land in most of these countries. These are large estates. There is not enough land for the rest, so many are reduced to day labor on the estates of the rich Rightwingers.

They scream about socialism and communism all the time, but down there, being a communist means you belong to a labor union. Supporting raising the minimum wage is communism. In many of those countries, the penalty for being a communist is death. They very much hate labor unions and they often kill these people.

I will say that the Right down there has largely stopped killing people. However, in El Salvador, Guatemala, Nicaragua, Colombia, Peru, Ecuador, Argentina, Bolivia, Chile, and Uruguay, in days past, these countries all ran Rightwing death squads and armies that massacred the urban and rural poor for demanding something to eat and a roof over their heads because that was communism! The Right is still murderous in recent years in Colombia, Venezuela, Bolivia, and Honduras.

The Right was formerly associated with extreme Jim Crow racism in places like Cuba and Ecuador. Rightwing Anti-Indian racism is still extreme in Peru, Bolivia, Brazil, Colombia, and Chile. The Venezuelan Right is very racist. Rightwing anti-black racism is still serious in Colombia, Venezuela, Peru, Mexico, and the Dominican Republic.

However, the racism has declined from an earlier level in most of these places.

In general, the Rightwing Whites have almost all the money and wealth in these lands and the darker folks have next to nothing.

In the Philippines it is the same thing. A tiny Rightwing elite, mostly Fujian Chinese, has almost all the land, wealth, and money. Everyone else has next to nothing.

Rightwing governments in that sense have vanished from most of the rest of the globe. Rightwing economics or conservative economics is despised the world over.

There are few economically Right countries in Europe other than the UK under the Tories and Ukraine.

There is also rightwing fascism in the world. It may rule in Haiti. The Latin American Right has fascist tendencies at times, especially in Bolivia where they still wave Nazi flags. Fascist/Nazi rightwing countries include Ukraine, Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia. A fascist Right rules Poland at the moment. An odd Rightwing fascist is in power in Hungary. Rightwing fascists have been ruling Israel for decades now.

In Europe, Right and Left are very different from what they are in the US. The Right is often nationalist and at times even pursues a Left economics. The Left is more anti-nationalist, internationalist, globalist, and pro-immigrant. I find this sort of a Right much more tolerable than the American kind.

Turkey has been a fascist country forever, but the economics are not rightwing. It is similar to Hungary in this regard. India is also a very fascist country right now, but the economics are still left. Turkey, Hungary, and India may in a sense be called “left fascism,” but the extreme bigotry and racism in India and Turkey makes them Rightwing.

Many countries in Eastern Europe, Latin America, the Muslim World, the Arab World, the Caribbean, Eurasia, South Asia, and Sub-Saharan Africa are socially conservative but economically leftwing. You can’t really call these conservative or Rightwing countries.

Putin’s politics is called Rightwing “Russian conservatism.” However, this would be considered leftwing in most of the world. This is about the only “rightwing” politics I can support nowadays.

Social conservatism is not considered conservatism or rightwing because the Right mostly has to do with economics.